Should there be Justice System punishments for...

KingofAnnwn

(...or something else. Add your ideas below, but be nice! and no swearing!)

Dueling doesn't seem to bother me too much, but if I can't ride my mount in to a crafting area, bank etc (not that I want to) then combat pets should be unsummoned the same way.

Nastassiya

No, they're perfectly fine doing what they're doing.

SilverBride wrote: »

Jierdanit wrote: »

Seriously what is so terrible about 2 ppl dueling each other in a city?
Not like theyre hurting you by doing that.
The only thing they may disturb is the looks of a very small part of a city and i think its very possible to just ignore that and go on with what you wanted to do without having to do anything about it.

It is disruptive. This is why other mmos have disabled dueling in towns.

Why is there such opposition to just stepping out of town to duel? It is such a simple solution that leaves everyone happy, so why the resistance?

I think I know the answer, unfortunately. Some players just want the attention. Others just enjoy disrupting others. Some want both.

It would be a smart move on ZoS's part to eliminate situations with a high propensity for conflict among the player base.

I completely disagree. If dueling bothers someone then that's a problem with their inability to manage their feelings and not let things bother them, aka: tolerance level. People dual because they enjoy having fun with each other and its not like it's hurting other player characters. Unless someone is purposefully jumping around your character and following you when you move, this is being disruptive and trying to get your attention. Nothing is stopping you from capturing a little video and submitting that to ZOS, in a petition. If people are just dueling, that is permitted, otherwise it would be banned. It's two people having a good time and not causing any harm to your player characters.

RedMuse

Tethilia wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

What city allows fighting in the streets? The guards uphold other common laws such as stealing, and if you attack an npc you will suffer consequences, so why allow dueling? Dueling is fighting.

To be fair, Riften without a constant city brawl happening over something stupid isn't Riften.

"Hey cute Salamander pet, where did you get it?"
"YOU CALLIN ME A SALAMANDER, I WILL GUT YOU FOR THAT!"

For Riftsn this is very tame and far too coherent.

SilverBride

Yes, there should be some fine for unnecessary use of flashy abilities / dueling in towns.

Nastassiya wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

It is disruptive. This is why other mmos have disabled dueling in towns.

Why is there such opposition to just stepping out of town to duel? It is such a simple solution that leaves everyone happy, so why the resistance?

I think I know the answer, unfortunately. Some players just want the attention. Others just enjoy disrupting others. Some want both.

It would be a smart move on ZoS's part to eliminate situations with a high propensity for conflict among the player base.

I completely disagree.

Which part of my post do you disagree with? The part where I say stepping out of town is a simple solution that would make everyone happy? Or the part that eliminating situations that could potentially cause conflict is a good idea?

I know that dueling is currently allowed in town, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea, or that there shouldn't be repercussions. Stealing is allowed in town too, but if you get caught you get a bounty.

ArchMikem

Yes, there should be some fine for unnecessary use of flashy abilities / dueling in towns.

I would think Tamrielic Society would have laws restricting casting Spells in public spaces unless for professional reasons such as Healers.

I do get pretty annoyed at people who can't go a single step without casting buffs. I even asked someone why once when they were just running thru the Alliance Gate in Cyro spamming abilities, and they just said "it's fun", it keeps them from getting bored.

I must have the attention span and patience of a Saint.

Tyreal1974

Yes, there should be some fine for unnecessary use of flashy abilities / dueling in towns.

I did not read all the posts to see if anyone else has said something similar. However I would think if Guards are on the look out for thieves, then they should also be on the lookout for other forms of disorder like public fighting and out a stop to it. Same goes for the summoned creatures...why should one classes abilities be considered a crime but not others. Either stop discriminating against the Necromances (remove timers and criminal charges for the summons) or the scales of justice should be balanced in regards to Sorcerers/Wardens (add similar timers for Sorcerers Daedra and criminal charges to Sorcerers/Warden summons).

Alurria

Yes, there should be some fine for unnecessary use of flashy abilities / dueling in towns.

The OP clearly states people dueling in and around the dye station causing their character to draw their weapon which usually disrupts any process you may be involved in. Throwing down spells in this area is not cool, as some dye jobs my not be saved yet and you may lose what you are working on. I can see why they are annoyed. I would be too! Someone came up with a idea I agree with, how about al NPCs enclosed in a bubble no spells, no pets, no combat pets, no mounts, no special effects inside the bubble. Would only be vendor npcs and craft stations inside vendor / craft areas , doorways and writ dropoff areas.

Agenericname

SilverBride wrote: »

Nastassiya wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

It is disruptive. This is why other mmos have disabled dueling in towns.

Why is there such opposition to just stepping out of town to duel? It is such a simple solution that leaves everyone happy, so why the resistance?

I think I know the answer, unfortunately. Some players just want the attention. Others just enjoy disrupting others. Some want both.

It would be a smart move on ZoS's part to eliminate situations with a high propensity for conflict among the player base.

I completely disagree.

Which part of my post do you disagree with? The part where I say stepping out of town is a simple solution that would make everyone happy? Or the part that eliminating situations that could potentially cause conflict is a good idea?

I know that dueling is currently allowed in town, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea, or that there shouldn't be repercussions. Stealing is allowed in town too, but if you get caught you get a bounty.

Would it make everyone happy? I mean, it doesnt seem to bother the people dueling.

If ZOS eliminated every possible source of conflict we wouldnt have a group finder, at all.

Stealing isn't allowed in town. Its a crime. Stealing out of towns is also a crime. Theft is a crime.

I suggest that when people duel in town, their weapons automatically change to Wabbajacks. Fun for everyone!

Nastassiya

No, they're perfectly fine doing what they're doing.

SilverBride wrote: »

Which part of my post do you disagree with? The part where I say stepping out of town is a simple solution that would make everyone happy? Or the part that eliminating situations that could potentially cause conflict is a good idea?

I know that dueling is currently allowed in town, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea, or that there shouldn't be repercussions. Stealing is allowed in town too, but if you get caught you get a bounty.

I personally do not see a bad view of this. This isn't EverQuest where there is a town called Freeport that has a sanctioned dueling Arena or an entire zone with a massive colosseum for duals. I do not recall seeing these in Morrowind, Oblivion, or Skyrim. Where in the timeline were there sanctioned PvP spots? Elder Scrolls has a history of sanctioned duels. I haven't gone back to Morrowind to see how the towns have changed and I do not plan to. But before I accept a change to duels, there would need to be arenas, in towns, for players to do this. Also, Guards would need to enforce this and KOS players that violate the laws. Until that happens, and it's lore friendly, then I am not willing to accept any changes because people are intolerant to hearing the sounds and flashes of spells that do not hurt their character in the slightest.

vivisectvib16_ESO

Yes, there should be some fine for unnecessary use of flashy abilities / dueling in towns.

Dueling outside of towns, yes please.

Zama666

(...or something else. Add your ideas below, but be nice! and no swearing!)

Have Dueling Zone.
Allow people to bet.

kadochka

Yes, there should be some fine for unnecessary use of flashy abilities / dueling in towns.

Sangwyne wrote: »

kadochka wrote: »

...spam-casting or dueling in towns? Specifically, on or around crafting / dye stations, or in enclosed spaces like around merchants or in banks.
The fines would probably be small, like the ones you get for minor thievery, but honestly, if you're the jerk that decides to run past while I'm outfit-designing and spam a bunch of big glowy AoE effects, all the while fully knowing what you're doing...

Edit: for those answering no, can you explain why? Are you seriously not bothered by the people dueling and casting big flashy spells in your face while you're trying to dye your armor? or by the lag behind your map when people decide dropping DK Standard on the central wayshrine is a cool thing to do? Am I alone in this?????

"And if you're having issues with a single skill being used near a wayshrine, you might wanna look into upgrading your Etch-A-Sketch. My rig is a veritable hunk of junk, I got the entire thing, monitor, cables, computer, mouse, keyboard and all, off a place that literally had "Discount" in their name for about the same as I pay to have takeout delivered (seriously, that stuff is expensive, how do they calculate those fees??), and I've never had issues with DK standard tanking my framerate.

It's not just an FPS issue, though people have those too. The effects tend to interact with your character, which especially in dye stations is annoying.

Jierdanit wrote: »

kadochka wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Or maybe we should all just lighten up a bit and realize that in an MMO you share the world space with others and there will be things others do that annoy you, and things you do that annoy others.

So those who want repercussions for dueling in town should "just lighten up a bit and realize that in an MMO you share the world space with others", but those who are dueling don't have to offer the same consideration to those around them?

Perhaps come up with a better solution than banning dueling in towns or fining those who do it.

How about asking ZoS to make casted buffs have no effect on other players while within towns?

Seriously? How does disallowing dueling in certain spots not sound like a proper fix, especially compared to that? sorry, I just don't see how that makes any sense.

Because other people than you might want to duel in cities, or rather not have to tell someone theyd like to duel to go out of the city with them, because its not possible to duel inside...

Seriously what is so terrible about 2 ppl dueling each other in a city?
Not like theyre hurting you by doing that.
The only thing they may disturb is the looks of a very small part of a city and i think its very possible to just ignore that and go on with what you wanted to do without having to do anything about it.

Because it's common courtesy. And lots of other games implemented measures to fix this ahead of time

Nastassiya wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Jierdanit wrote: »

Seriously what is so terrible about 2 ppl dueling each other in a city?
Not like theyre hurting you by doing that.
The only thing they may disturb is the looks of a very small part of a city and i think its very possible to just ignore that and go on with what you wanted to do without having to do anything about it.

It is disruptive. This is why other mmos have disabled dueling in towns.

Why is there such opposition to just stepping out of town to duel? It is such a simple solution that leaves everyone happy, so why the resistance?

I think I know the answer, unfortunately. Some players just want the attention. Others just enjoy disrupting others. Some want both.

It would be a smart move on ZoS's part to eliminate situations with a high propensity for conflict among the player base.

I completely disagree. If dueling bothers someone then that's a problem with their inability to manage their feelings and not let things bother them, aka: tolerance level. People dual because they enjoy having fun with each other and its not like it's hurting other player characters. Unless someone is purposefully jumping around your character and following you when you move, this is being disruptive and trying to get your attention. Nothing is stopping you from capturing a little video and submitting that to ZOS, in a petition. If people are just dueling, that is permitted, otherwise it would be banned. It's two people having a good time and not causing any harm to your player characters.

It is NOT a 'tolerance level' thing. Common. Courtesy.

SilverBride

Yes, there should be some fine for unnecessary use of flashy abilities / dueling in towns.

Agenericname wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Which part of my post do you disagree with? The part where I say stepping out of town is a simple solution that would make everyone happy? Or the part that eliminating situations that could potentially cause conflict is a good idea?

I know that dueling is currently allowed in town, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea, or that there shouldn't be repercussions. Stealing is allowed in town too, but if you get caught you get a bounty.

Would it make everyone happy? I mean, it doesnt seem to bother the people dueling.

A 2 year old throwing a tantrum in the middle of a restaurant isn't bothered by their own screaming either, but I guarantee that it's a problem for everyone around them.

If someone knows that something they are doing may cause a problem for others, but goes ahead and does it anyway, that says a lot.

Destai

(...or something else. Add your ideas below, but be nice! and no swearing!)

I vote for designated mute areas.

People go to crafting and outfit stations to focus on a task, so IMO all skills should be muted around them. Pets especially! For outfit stations, it's a bit frustrating to be styling something and players are spamming buffs.

Dueling spam is so annoying to me. Even though I've turned on auto-decline, I still get the little notice on my screen that I declined - so it's still spammable in someway. I'm fine with being around dueling as its not blocking common areas like wayshrines, traders, stations, shops, and banks. I like the idea of dueling areas that way no one's being bugged by someone.

I think any game system should be designed around a simple principle - never annoy thy neighbor. Some games are just better about this than others, I think this game has challenges in this department at times.

Lady_Galadhiel

Yes, there should be some fine for unnecessary use of flashy abilities / dueling in towns.

I mean as OP stated in the first post

kadochka wrote: »

Specifically, on or around crafting / dye stations, or in enclosed spaces like around merchants or in banks.

It's no about dueling in cities but dueling where people are interacting with a lot of stuff,specially next to dye stations where you try out armor and colours and get those flashy effects around you or on you all the time.
Most people have nothing against others dueling in towns but cities are big enough,it does not need to happen next to a dye station or inside banks to get the most attention.

Its the same as someone would summon their bear,go afk and place it on top or next to anything people need to interact with.
Both situations are inconveniente for others.

Hollyniss

No, they're perfectly fine doing what they're doing.

SilverBride wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Which part of my post do you disagree with? The part where I say stepping out of town is a simple solution that would make everyone happy? Or the part that eliminating situations that could potentially cause conflict is a good idea?

I know that dueling is currently allowed in town, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea, or that there shouldn't be repercussions. Stealing is allowed in town too, but if you get caught you get a bounty.

Would it make everyone happy? I mean, it doesnt seem to bother the people dueling.

A 2 year old throwing a tantrum in the middle of a restaurant isn't bothered by their own screaming either, but I guarantee that it's a problem for everyone around them.

If someone knows that something they are doing may cause a problem for others, but goes ahead and does it anyway, that says a lot.

So you're going to compare real life instances to a VIDEO GAME? [snip] Even if there were dueling arenas people would still duel in town. And the idea of them getting fined is ridiculous. They shouldn't be punished because it bothers YOU.

[Edited to remove Baiting]

KalyanLazair

(...or something else. Add your ideas below, but be nice! and no swearing!)

In all honesty, I don't mind duels around town. Actually I find some of them entertaining and I've stayed to watch. That said, if it is that much of a hassle to some players, and if it does get moved elsewhere, I'm not going to mind. I'm pretty neutral in this topic, to be honest, and I'm fine with whichever choice the devs decide to take if they take any. I find the humongous summons way more annoying than dueling or lightning flood, and my best character is a petsorc (my main is a khajiit but the one I use for dungeons because he's way stronger is the petsorc).

It's kind of funny but when I play and I see two dudes giving each other a beating, internally I imagine it as a couple of people who got into an argument over something likely pointless and the argument got out of hand. I'm not going to say there aren't things that annoy me, but this is definitely not one of those.

LettuceBrain

Yes, there should be some fine for unnecessary use of flashy abilities / dueling in towns.

Hollyniss wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Which part of my post do you disagree with? The part where I say stepping out of town is a simple solution that would make everyone happy? Or the part that eliminating situations that could potentially cause conflict is a good idea?

I know that dueling is currently allowed in town, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea, or that there shouldn't be repercussions. Stealing is allowed in town too, but if you get caught you get a bounty.

Would it make everyone happy? I mean, it doesnt seem to bother the people dueling.

A 2 year old throwing a tantrum in the middle of a restaurant isn't bothered by their own screaming either, but I guarantee that it's a problem for everyone around them.

If someone knows that something they are doing may cause a problem for others, but goes ahead and does it anyway, that says a lot.

So you're going to compare real life instances to a VIDEO GAME? [snip] Even if there were dueling arenas people would still duel in town. And the idea of them getting fined is ridiculous. They shouldn't be punished because it bothers YOU.

[Edited to remove Baiting]

If you look at how many people voted yes then you should know it bothers more people than just them...

Anyway, the OP's issue was that when they are at station they are disrupted because they are buffed and it causes their weapon to be taken out. I don't know why people who voted no are saying that that isn't a problem.

Nastassiya

No, they're perfectly fine doing what they're doing.

LettuceBrain wrote: »

If you look at how many people voted yes then you should know it bothers more people than just them...

You can't use this for actual statistics because you are not taking a random sample so the poll is meaningless. If you want a random sample of the population it needs to gather people from different time zones, languages, and people who do not visit the forums. Only a small amount of the player base actually visits the forums. The majority people do not visit the forums and interact.

Ackwalan

Nastassiya wrote: »

LettuceBrain wrote: »

If you look at how many people voted yes then you should know it bothers more people than just them...

You can't use this for actual statistics because you are not taking a random sample so the poll is meaningless. If you want a random sample of the population it needs to gather people from different time zones, languages, and people who do not visit the forums. Only a small amount of the player base actually visits the forums. The majority people do not visit the forums and interact.

This is comical, any poll you (you in a general population not specifically you) disagree with can be disregarded because it is to narrow. While any poll you agree with is an accurate sample.

Hollyniss

No, they're perfectly fine doing what they're doing.

LettuceBrain wrote: »

Hollyniss wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Which part of my post do you disagree with? The part where I say stepping out of town is a simple solution that would make everyone happy? Or the part that eliminating situations that could potentially cause conflict is a good idea?

I know that dueling is currently allowed in town, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea, or that there shouldn't be repercussions. Stealing is allowed in town too, but if you get caught you get a bounty.

Would it make everyone happy? I mean, it doesnt seem to bother the people dueling.

A 2 year old throwing a tantrum in the middle of a restaurant isn't bothered by their own screaming either, but I guarantee that it's a problem for everyone around them.

If someone knows that something they are doing may cause a problem for others, but goes ahead and does it anyway, that says a lot.

So you're going to compare real life instances to a VIDEO GAME? [snip] Even if there were dueling arenas people would still duel in town. And the idea of them getting fined is ridiculous. They shouldn't be punished because it bothers YOU.

[Edited to remove Baiting]

If you look at how many people voted yes then you should know it bothers more people than just them...

Anyway, the OP's issue was that when they are at station they are disrupted because they are buffed and it causes their weapon to be taken out. I don't know why people who voted no are saying that that isn't a problem.

Because it isn't a big deal. Go somewhere else if someone is being particularly bothersome.

SilverBride

Yes, there should be some fine for unnecessary use of flashy abilities / dueling in towns.

The player doing the disruptive behavior is the one who should go somewhere else. They are the cause and there wouldn't be a disruption without their actions.

But if they insist on dueling in town, even though there are better options that don't disrupt anyone, then they should get a bounty for it.

ealdwin

No, they're perfectly fine doing what they're doing.

Tyreal1974 wrote: »

Same goes for the summoned creatures...why should one classes abilities be considered a crime but not others.

Because in many parts of Tamriel, Necromancy is very much a crime and those who practice it are shunned by society. Namely because it involves the violation of the cycle of life and death, as well as more dangerous magic including potential dealings with Daedric Princes (such as Molag Bal).

Meanwhile, Conjuration (summoning) is a practiced magical form that is regulated by the Mages Guild and those who practice it have bound the minor daedra they have summoned to their complete control. (Said daedra are mostly daedra who have no particular alliance to any of the princes, so no dangerous deals are involved in their summoning.) There's a difference between a learned mage with a loyal scamp following them around versus a necromancer with someone's relative shuffling behind them.

That's the lore explanation, anyways.

Ippokrates

Yes, there should be some fine for unnecessary use of flashy abilities / dueling in towns.

EvilAutoTech wrote: »

However, you cannot tell other players that they are not allowed to use game features that they paid for.

More people paid for crafting bag to make, you know, crafting. Which sometimes could be hard when two morons decide to make duel next to your station - which is getting more and more often in Vivec.

GreenHere

Okay, so... confession time, y'all!


One fun thing I like to do to mess with people who are dueling right up in the middle of banking/crafting hotspots in town is to basically join them. I'll jump around like an idiot, spam casting all my abilities, dodge rolling for no reason, blocking repeatedly, the works... And I'll randomly pick on of the combatants to try to stick as close to as possible, so it's as noticeable as can be for both of them. I'm basically acting like an over-enthusiastic puppy that just HAS to be underfoot when something it thinks exciting is going on!

The funny thing is, about 50% of the time, other people will see what I'm doing and join in too! More than once I've inadvertently started a mosh pit this way, lol.

But when others don't join in, almost always the two duelers just eventually stop and look at me in disbelief or start laughing or hurling insults in chat. Then I'll usually say something like, "Y'all need to STOP using violence to solve your problems and learn to EXPRESS yourselves! Let's sit down and talk about our feelings! "



It's funny, and it's fun. And it's one of the ways I cope with people who think the entire world should be their dueling arena... including the ~4% of it that is pretty obviously designed for people to accomplish other tasks.

Nastassiya

No, they're perfectly fine doing what they're doing.

Ackwalan wrote: »

This is comical, any poll you (you in a general population not specifically you) disagree with can be disregarded because it is to narrow. While any poll you agree with is an accurate sample.

Please go take a statistics class and you'll learn about how to capture an random sample.

Merforum

SilverBride wrote: »

Jierdanit wrote: »

Seriously what is so terrible about 2 ppl dueling each other in a city?
Not like theyre hurting you by doing that.
The only thing they may disturb is the looks of a very small part of a city and i think its very possible to just ignore that and go on with what you wanted to do without having to do anything about it.

It is disruptive. This is why other mmos have disabled dueling in towns.

Why is there such opposition to just stepping out of town to duel? It is such a simple solution that leaves everyone happy, so why the resistance?

I think I know the answer, unfortunately. Some players just want the attention. Others just enjoy disrupting others. Some want both.

It would be a smart move on ZoS's part to eliminate situations with a high propensity for conflict among the player base.

Yes it is called GRIEFING apparently certain people can't grief enough people in IC/cyro. They also want to drop spells over and over on crafting stations, park bear on interactions, duel in bank. And here is another super annoying thing that people do in random dungeon (overland too) when someone finds a chest and starts to open it, someone else will drop shards or some other completely annoying loud/flashy spell in order to make you NOT be able to open chest. And get this it will be the same person who wants to go QUICK and is looking for SETS. But griefing overrides opening a chest fast or not upsetting someone who would have otherwise shared gear with you.

I did notice that ZOS has removed some effects from the interaction animations like seeing matriarch flapping wings. But the idea someone had with every interaction to create a bubble where nothing from outside can enter it should be standard. I think they got it right with scying/excavating animations because outside effects don't seem to disturb those like other stuff.

peacenote

No, they're perfectly fine doing what they're doing.

I find the justice system to be an annoyance and not fun for necro abilities. I don't want to see it expanded more. And I haven't had any issues like the OP describes.

I get how it could be annoying but I just don't like the idea of introducing more limitations in towns.

Nastassiya

No, they're perfectly fine doing what they're doing.

It would just be better to depopulate the users screen when they're using an outfitting station. That would solve the valid complaint about the outfitting station. I don't see a valid complaint for banking because you're not looking at your character and the bank inventory isn't transparent.

Merforum

GreenHere wrote: »

Okay, so... confession time, y'all!


One fun thing I like to do to mess with people who are dueling right up in the middle of banking/crafting hotspots in town is to basically join them. I'll jump around like an idiot, spam casting all my abilities, dodge rolling for no reason, blocking repeatedly, the works... And I'll randomly pick on of the combatants to try to stick as close to as possible, so it's as noticeable as can be for both of them. I'm basically acting like an over-enthusiastic puppy that just HAS to be underfoot when something it thinks exciting is going on!

The funny thing is, about 50% of the time, other people will see what I'm doing and join in too! More than once I've inadvertently started a mosh pit this way, lol.

But when others don't join in, almost always the two duelers just eventually stop and look at me in disbelief or start laughing or hurling insults in chat. Then I'll usually say something like, "Y'all need to STOP using violence to solve your problems and learn to EXPRESS yourselves! Let's sit down and talk about our feelings! "



It's funny, and it's fun. And it's one of the ways I cope with people who think the entire world should be their dueling arena... including the ~4% of it that is pretty obviously designed for people to accomplish other tasks.

This is an interesting idea to grief the griefers. I like it but not a long term solution and you might have just given griefers another idea to ruin other people's duels.