"We're Taking Some of the Power Out of the High End Experience"

spartaxoxo

BuildMan wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

They need to adjust high end achievements accordingly then. There are some achievements that were already excruciatingly more difficult on console WITH that higher power because of the fact that console doesn't have addons and must wear the same gear for every fight.

How long did it take someone on console to get godslayer, I believe was the one that people suspected wasn't even possible at first? I can't remember which one because I'm not running that kind of content but I know there was one people were banging their heads against the wall on for months until an xbox group barely managed it.

The time achievements should have the same relative difficulty as they did when people earned those rewards (and should be timed under the presumption that you're not using addons) if they plan on lowering the dps.

I personally have only seen one godslayer on NA ps4. So that basically means 12 people have it total. I asked and first clear was 29:09, latest was 28:46 iirc. If they browse the forums maybe they can correct me.

If that's the case then I think a 20% reduction in dps may result in that group not even being able to do it. Because they are losing more dps than they have time to spare. And that's clearly not a matter of skill, as they would be the most skilled players of that trial in the entire ps4 na userbase.

That time was already extremely tight. With only like a minute to spare, but 20% less power in every fight will likely add up to a minute as they were already using like 95% of the time at the higher power level

blkjag

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

Stevie6 wrote: »

15 to 20 % damage nerf...any nerf to the top end will affect the bottom as well. The bottom feeders will never see the light of day while the upper crust will always be catered to. The 1% will adapt and survive. The devs could just raise the floor to pre HorrorWind damage and shields. That would be a start and let the lower end have a voice /input on buffs or nerfs. We, the casual player, will never have anything consistent because of continuous nerfs. By the time I get an item, it’s already nerfed due to someone crying in PVP. Keep PvP and PVE separated finally. You might have less complaints.

Agreed. I run a progression trials team, with mid-high end damage, and I these nerfs are killing us. Progressions that were within reach before are being literally wrenched away from us, for what?? Because one or two teams finished Gryphon Heart by skipping portal mechanics?? If a team is that good and have worked that hard, they should be REWARDED, not PUNISHED. And the rest of the entire community is also PUNISHED. The low cp students I teach become discouraged and leave, the teams fall apart, and the 1% continue their amazing feats. I am sick of it.

spartaxoxo

redspecter23 wrote: »

Greasytengu wrote: »

Next update looks like it has a lot of potential.

A lot potential to be the most universally unliked update in the game's history.


who asked for these changes?

"In response to the feedback that there is still too much vertical progression in the Champion Point system, we have further reduced the maximum number of stages for passive stars (non-slotted) available."

Quoted from the PTS patch notes so the answer to your question about who asked for it is apparently the players. That's funny because I haven't talked to a single person that asked for this, let alone a large enough amount of players to justify a sweeping nerf. I've heard players ask for a lot of things. This is not one of them.

Most of the complaints were about the green tree, so they nerfed the red and blue. With people only wanting some minor points reductions and not less power in those trees. Insane

blkjag

100% pve suffers to nerfs while pvp deals with broken builds and we all have to deal poor performance. However raising the floor doesn’t help either. Eso has never been easier. Anything you want you should work for.

munster1404

This will teach people to not complain about grinding for CP ever again. When ZoS nerfs the high end experience, by default they also deprive lower CP players the opportunity from gaining the power that was promised as they gain more CPs which they would have got eventually, if these whiners could have just kept their mouths shut and continue levelling via the gazillion channels that ZoS created for the player base such as Enlightenment, double XP event which pop up every couple of months and XP scrolls. You literally can earn from 5 to even 10 CPs weekly by just logging on, doing your writs, a few dailies here and there. I was 1295 CP last November. Now I'm at 1460 CP currently and I don't even play everyday.

Sangwyne

ZOS saying "We're taking some of the power out of the high-end experience" is starting to sound an awful lot like the headsman saying "Don't worry, we're just going to take a bit off the top". Really frustrating to have the effort I've put into my characters wiped out every time a new update hits, feels like building a sandcastle just to see the waves wash it away again.

katanagirl1

I don’t understand why we keep getting punished for trying to play the game and enjoy it. Why can’t we get good rewards for doing stuff, instead of cooldowns on everything? Playing more should get you more and better stuff, but it doesn’t.

The performance is terrible, the changes to CP and everything else has not helped one bit, then they want to pull the rug out from under us instead of trying to fix it and make it right?

Is this how you treat your paying customers?

Grandchamp1989

zvavi wrote: »

From the pts patch notes it seems like damage and mitigation are being nerfed only a bit, if at all. So it is not all doom and gloom. We are probably going to be a lot stronger, thanks to our new p2w mythic.
From previous patch:

This PTS cycle:

Oh look, another Thrassian that will be nerfed to the ground in 1-2 patches!

trackdemon5512

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

BuildMan wrote: »

Was fun being at 47k while it lasted.

10-15% from the highest performing DPS which prior to FOA were hitting 115k at times. This would drop them down below 100k hopefully.

As your rotations and such weren’t optimized to hit this clearly any DPS hit you take would be significantly smaller (or depending on builds you may even get a boost). It’s all for closing the gap between them and you.

"Them and you"... you mean those 100k parses on Youtube that almost no one can get? Especially on console?? That is NOT what a game should be balanced around, and punishing those who do hit those numbers because others can't is wrong. Don't fool yourself by thinking any of the changes ever help lower level players. Nerfs hurt everyone and always have.

It wasn’t the developers design to have any players hitting 100k+ DPS. That much has been clear for a long time. Since CP increases were stopped in Murkmire new sets allowed lower performing players to increase their DPS and complete content without stagnating. The con is that the top performing DPS players also increased their output. So you increases the ability for all players to complete content but at the same time did nothing or increased the power gap between them.

The new CP 2.0 has indeed begun to close the gap. I see CP 400 players that with rotations can hit close to CP 1800 players. Furthermore the top end DPS nerfs allow the developers to once again build balanced content. Currently one shot mechanics are pervasive to deal with high DPS that burns through stuff too fast and can withstand everything. Yet at the same time lower end players couldn’t even complete the stuff.

This all needed to happen

remosito

Jaimeh wrote: »

Testing hasn't started but despite the cp nerf, for which the values are not that big in terms of impact in pve (with the exception of pen for stam) there's other sources of damage added, and the change to proc sets, so it might not be a nerf overall.

proc changes will be a nerf to the floor or hybrids who wont have the necessary primary stats. And a boost to the ceiling...

have no words really...

remosito

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

BuildMan wrote: »

Was fun being at 47k while it lasted.

10-15% from the highest performing DPS which prior to FOA were hitting 115k at times. This would drop them down below 100k hopefully.

As your rotations and such weren’t optimized to hit this clearly any DPS hit you take would be significantly smaller (or depending on builds you may even get a boost). It’s all for closing the gap between them and you.

"Them and you"... you mean those 100k parses on Youtube that almost no one can get? Especially on console?? That is NOT what a game should be balanced around, and punishing those who do hit those numbers because others can't is wrong. Don't fool yourself by thinking any of the changes ever help lower level players. Nerfs hurt everyone and always have.

It wasn’t the developers design to have any players hitting 100k+ DPS. That much has been clear for a long time. Since CP increases were stopped in Murkmire new sets allowed lower performing players to increase their DPS and complete content without stagnating. The con is that the top performing DPS players also increased their output. So you increases the ability for all players to complete content but at the same time did nothing or increased the power gap between them.

The new CP 2.0 has indeed begun to close the gap. I see CP 400 players that with rotations can hit close to CP 1800 players. Furthermore the top end DPS nerfs allow the developers to once again build balanced content. Currently one shot mechanics are pervasive to deal with high DPS that burns through stuff too fast and can withstand everything. Yet at the same time lower end players couldn’t even complete the stuff.

This all needed to happen

what really needs to happen is perfect rotation gear and timing not outdpsing the floor 5 to 1 or more.

Until something is done about that. Everything is always just gonna be a bandaid.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

BuildMan wrote: »

Was fun being at 47k while it lasted.

10-15% from the highest performing DPS which prior to FOA were hitting 115k at times. This would drop them down below 100k hopefully.

As your rotations and such weren’t optimized to hit this clearly any DPS hit you take would be significantly smaller (or depending on builds you may even get a boost). It’s all for closing the gap between them and you.

"Them and you"... you mean those 100k parses on Youtube that almost no one can get? Especially on console?? That is NOT what a game should be balanced around, and punishing those who do hit those numbers because others can't is wrong. Don't fool yourself by thinking any of the changes ever help lower level players. Nerfs hurt everyone and always have.

It wasn’t the developers design to have any players hitting 100k+ DPS. That much has been clear for a long time. Since CP increases were stopped in Murkmire new sets allowed lower performing players to increase their DPS and complete content without stagnating. The con is that the top performing DPS players also increased their output. So you increases the ability for all players to complete content but at the same time did nothing or increased the power gap between them.

The new CP 2.0 has indeed begun to close the gap. I see CP 400 players that with rotations can hit close to CP 1800 players. Furthermore the top end DPS nerfs allow the developers to once again build balanced content. Currently one shot mechanics are pervasive to deal with high DPS that burns through stuff too fast and can withstand everything. Yet at the same time lower end players couldn’t even complete the stuff.

This all needed to happen

Tell that to me again when getting clears in hard content becomes something more players have done. Oh wait, they haven't. "the players hitting 100k" is NOT even close to a relevant fraction of the actual playerbase, and if they can hit it, who cares? Nerfing them and literally everyone else is far more unhealthy to the game as it's been done and treated than this oh so horrid "power creep" ever was. Vet content should be difficult and in some cases very difficult, but as it's always been, the amount of people who can hit exorbitant numbers and complete the top tier content is hilariously low in actuality.

Avoranti

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

Can we please keep the power in the high end experience and maybe focus a little bit on performance?

But we had an entire year of performance improvements that gave us more bugs, game crashes and worse performance overall.

But I agree with your comment. None of these changes would mean a thing of players can’t play because of constant crashes, freeze issues and more bugs.

spartaxoxo

remosito wrote: »

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

BuildMan wrote: »

Was fun being at 47k while it lasted.

10-15% from the highest performing DPS which prior to FOA were hitting 115k at times. This would drop them down below 100k hopefully.

As your rotations and such weren’t optimized to hit this clearly any DPS hit you take would be significantly smaller (or depending on builds you may even get a boost). It’s all for closing the gap between them and you.

"Them and you"... you mean those 100k parses on Youtube that almost no one can get? Especially on console?? That is NOT what a game should be balanced around, and punishing those who do hit those numbers because others can't is wrong. Don't fool yourself by thinking any of the changes ever help lower level players. Nerfs hurt everyone and always have.

It wasn’t the developers design to have any players hitting 100k+ DPS. That much has been clear for a long time. Since CP increases were stopped in Murkmire new sets allowed lower performing players to increase their DPS and complete content without stagnating. The con is that the top performing DPS players also increased their output. So you increases the ability for all players to complete content but at the same time did nothing or increased the power gap between them.

The new CP 2.0 has indeed begun to close the gap. I see CP 400 players that with rotations can hit close to CP 1800 players. Furthermore the top end DPS nerfs allow the developers to once again build balanced content. Currently one shot mechanics are pervasive to deal with high DPS that burns through stuff too fast and can withstand everything. Yet at the same time lower end players couldn’t even complete the stuff.

This all needed to happen

what really needs to happen is perfect rotation gear and timing not outdpsing the floor 5 to 1 or more.

Until something is done about that. Everything is always just gonna be a bandaid.

No. What needs to happen is that the dps checks and one shots need to be toned down. I haven't really played many games that solved this problem with nerfing constantly. Most ones I played they solved it by making the content completeable by everyone who followed the mechanics with reasonable accuracy, so that what all that extra dps bought you was time and money and not content completion.

There are some exceptions, but I think that would much better suit this game. I remember drinking energy drinks at like 2 in the morning to stay awake to beat a difficult raid with average players after having bashed our heads in at for like 5-6 hours. But then we got it done and the elation and happiness was through the roof.

Meanwhile the top players could clear the thing and sell off something from it for millions of coins in like 30 minutes.

That experience seems much more appropriate to me than the current system where you have to be in the top like 5 percent of players to even begin to consider doing it.

Abelon

remosito wrote: »

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

BuildMan wrote: »

Was fun being at 47k while it lasted.

10-15% from the highest performing DPS which prior to FOA were hitting 115k at times. This would drop them down below 100k hopefully.

As your rotations and such weren’t optimized to hit this clearly any DPS hit you take would be significantly smaller (or depending on builds you may even get a boost). It’s all for closing the gap between them and you.

"Them and you"... you mean those 100k parses on Youtube that almost no one can get? Especially on console?? That is NOT what a game should be balanced around, and punishing those who do hit those numbers because others can't is wrong. Don't fool yourself by thinking any of the changes ever help lower level players. Nerfs hurt everyone and always have.

It wasn’t the developers design to have any players hitting 100k+ DPS. That much has been clear for a long time. Since CP increases were stopped in Murkmire new sets allowed lower performing players to increase their DPS and complete content without stagnating. The con is that the top performing DPS players also increased their output. So you increases the ability for all players to complete content but at the same time did nothing or increased the power gap between them.

The new CP 2.0 has indeed begun to close the gap. I see CP 400 players that with rotations can hit close to CP 1800 players. Furthermore the top end DPS nerfs allow the developers to once again build balanced content. Currently one shot mechanics are pervasive to deal with high DPS that burns through stuff too fast and can withstand everything. Yet at the same time lower end players couldn’t even complete the stuff.

This all needed to happen

what really needs to happen is perfect rotation gear and timing not outdpsing the floor 5 to 1 or more.

Until something is done about that. Everything is always just gonna be a bandaid.

Almost agree, but. The top players who manage to squeeze out a 100k-120k dps on a dummy don't do so because they came up with a "perfect" build that nobody else can put together. 99% of players can copy those builds down to every tiny detail and end up dealing 70k max.

Why? Because "rotation" and "timing" aka animation canceling aka a stupid bug that should have been fixed years ago. At the very least something should have been done about LA damage... maybe. Or they should have increased the damage of heavy attacks. Or they should have actually worked on "weaving" and given it more forgiving timings so more players could manage it. Oh and then there are the people who will never manage weaving because of high ping.

But nah. Let's nerf CP further, that will totally destroy that huge dps difference between the "floor and the ceiling." As a result all of those nerfs hit the players who rely on gear the most. Those who rely on their rotations will keep on setting dps records.

And no, I'm not even saying we should remove animation cancelling (though I sure wish it happened a long time ago), it is obvious that certain groups of players would downright leave the game if it happened. But something needs to be done with it. If ZOS managed to lower the dps difference originating from it. We would all be enjoying the benefits. Like hopefully less CP nerfs once it becomes obvious that CP is not the problem.

TwinLamps

SirLeeMinion wrote: »

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

Can we please keep the power in the high end experience and maybe focus a little bit on performance?

No! You'll get nothing and like it!


P.S. Don't forget to buy companions and crown crates.

Ever since crown sellers prices went crazy on EU I cant buy crates like I did before.
And companions aint my cup

Coatmagic

As a guild leader whose sig runs new folks through trials (as well as being in vet trial guilds),
this one has watched so many over the years theory craft and later dummy hump themselves into god-likeness
only for the axe(s) to fall: queue the whinging and the rage quitting etc etc etc..
and very few have nerve to wonder why this one steadfastly refuses to 'gitgud'
ain't nobody got time for dat, this one will pick flowers and decorate >^^<

Blackstar242

Why is no one mentioning the obvious? Reduce LA damage by whatever % the Dev's feel they missed out on.

Easy peasy, and the dev don't have to mess with any sets or maths that are hard, or coding decisions like Out of date addon check boxes....

And if their target is still not met, just keep dropping LA damage in increments until the desired state is achieved.

Hallothiel

No. What needs to happen is that the dps checks and one shots need to be toned down. I haven't really played many games that solved this problem with nerfing constantly. Most ones I played they solved it by making the content completeable by everyone who followed the mechanics with reasonable accuracy, so that what all that extra dps bought you was time and money and not content completion.

Agree with this.

If concerned that dps is ‘too much’ and players are just ignoring/burning through it, then maybe they should try and design bosses with mechanics you can’t just do that to?

Would make ‘end game’ more accessible for more people, and perhaps stop the slightly toxic/elitist attitude surrounding vet trials?

Loathe the ‘must have xxdps on a dummy’ approach to doing vet trials; yes, will need to do relatively decent damage, but not ridiculously high. It doesn't foster a good attitude of cooperation & enjoyment - this is a game, played for enjoyment, and not a competition!?

Ellimist_Entreri

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

Stevie6 wrote: »

15 to 20 % damage nerf...any nerf to the top end will affect the bottom as well. The bottom feeders will never see the light of day while the upper crust will always be catered to. The 1% will adapt and survive. The devs could just raise the floor to pre HorrorWind damage and shields. That would be a start and let the lower end have a voice /input on buffs or nerfs. We, the casual player, will never have anything consistent because of continuous nerfs. By the time I get an item, it’s already nerfed due to someone crying in PVP. Keep PvP and PVE separated finally. You might have less complaints.

Agreed. I run a progression trials team, with mid-high end damage, and I these nerfs are killing us. Progressions that were within reach before are being literally wrenched away from us, for what?? Because one or two teams finished Gryphon Heart by skipping portal mechanics?? If a team is that good and have worked that hard, they should be REWARDED, not PUNISHED. And the rest of the entire community is also PUNISHED. The low cp students I teach become discouraged and leave, the teams fall apart, and the 1% continue their amazing feats. I am sick of it.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

BuildMan wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

They need to adjust high end achievements accordingly then. There are some achievements that were already excruciatingly more difficult on console WITH that higher power because of the fact that console doesn't have addons and must wear the same gear for every fight.

How long did it take someone on console to get godslayer, I believe was the one that people suspected wasn't even possible at first? I can't remember which one because I'm not running that kind of content but I know there was one people were banging their heads against the wall on for months until an xbox group barely managed it.

The time achievements should have the same relative difficulty as they did when people earned those rewards (and should be timed under the presumption that you're not using addons) if they plan on lowering the dps.

I personally have only seen one godslayer on NA ps4. So that basically means 12 people have it total. I asked and first clear was 29:09, latest was 28:46 iirc. If they browse the forums maybe they can correct me.

If that's the case then I think a 20% reduction in dps may result in that group not even being able to do it. Because they are losing more dps than they have time to spare. And that's clearly not a matter of skill, as they would be the most skilled players of that trial in the entire ps4 na userbase.

That time was already extremely tight. With only like a minute to spare, but 20% less power in every fight will likely add up to a minute as they were already using like 95% of the time at the higher power level

Considering I have yet to see anything that "raises the floor" so to speak this series of changes truly feels like nothing more than an attempt to kneecap progression groups and keep them from having the opportunity to clear content that they potentially could have before while doing absolutely nothing to help the bottom end pull themselves up. In fact it could be argued the users most in need of the bonuses being stripped away are those currently in the 50-80k range; Meanwhile the players that were previously pushing 115k+ are still topping 100K.

Put in more mechanics like the potion phase in Stone Garden if you are that worried about DPS; Make the boss literally turn immortal and poof at x% health if you have to. Stripping away power bit by bit without retooling your content is just a slap in the face to everyone who invested any time at all into end-game progression or pulling themselves away from the floor.

Iarao

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

They need to adjust high end achievements accordingly then. There are some achievements that were already excruciatingly more difficult on console WITH that higher power because of the fact that console doesn't have addons and must wear the same gear for every fight.

How long did it take someone on console to get godslayer, I believe was the one that people suspected wasn't even possible at first? I can't remember which one because I'm not running that kind of content but I know there was one people were banging their heads against the wall on for months until an xbox group barely managed it.

The time achievements should have the same relative difficulty as they did when people earned those rewards (and should be timed under the presumption that you're not using addons) if they plan on lowering the dps.

If they lower the high end achievements, then the cycle begins again. They nerf us, then nerf the content, so on and so on and so on. I'll reserve my scathing commentary on the matter, but the amount of players who actually can complete achievements at the highest end is so laughably small that I greatly wonder why they even exist. I'll start worrying about "power creep" when half the community is running around with Z'maja's Shadow.

people sell carries. so maybe that is how half the community will get that skin? not sure where it drops so maybe it isnt possible to do that content with just 3 heavies and a lightweight.

Iarao

Iarao wrote: »

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

They need to adjust high end achievements accordingly then. There are some achievements that were already excruciatingly more difficult on console WITH that higher power because of the fact that console doesn't have addons and must wear the same gear for every fight.

How long did it take someone on console to get godslayer, I believe was the one that people suspected wasn't even possible at first? I can't remember which one because I'm not running that kind of content but I know there was one people were banging their heads against the wall on for months until an xbox group barely managed it.

The time achievements should have the same relative difficulty as they did when people earned those rewards (and should be timed under the presumption that you're not using addons) if they plan on lowering the dps.

If they lower the high end achievements, then the cycle begins again. They nerf us, then nerf the content, so on and so on and so on. I'll reserve my scathing commentary on the matter, but the amount of players who actually can complete achievements at the highest end is so laughably small that I greatly wonder why they even exist. I'll start worrying about "power creep" when half the community is running around with Z'maja's Shadow.

people sell carries. so maybe that is how half the community will get that skin? not sure where it drops so maybe it isnt possible to do that content with just 3 heavies and a lightweight.

or since it appears to be a trial, then 11 heavies and 1 lightweight.

coop500

Time to focus solely on questing with my mom hahah.
I quit this game for like a year and a half because of all the nerfs, because I was too focused on trying to get better at the game. But I am just so tired of it and I don't wanna fall in that trap again now that I am back and playing again.
So yeah, casuals for the win! Pick flowers, do quests, do normal dungeons at best....

hasi

renne wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

How long did it take someone on console to get godslayer, I believe was the one that people suspected wasn't even possible at first? I can't remember which one because I'm not running that kind of content but I know there was one people were banging their heads against the wall on for months until an xbox group barely managed it.

I looked into this a while back and the first console Godslayer was on Xbox-NA in Feb 2020, the first on PS4 was on NA in November 2020. Elsweyr released on console on 04 June 2019, if anyone wants to know how long that means it took for console to get there.

Got to correct you there, the first Godslayer on PS4 was in May 2020 on the EU Server, if I recall it correctly.

The performance played a big roll in it additionally, as Console got a lot of Bluescreens etc. after the Elsweyr Patch released. I don't remember if that happened straight away with Elsweyr or the Patches after though.
So there was no point for Console to even try GS at that time.

SidraWillowsky

Abelon wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

BuildMan wrote: »

Was fun being at 47k while it lasted.

10-15% from the highest performing DPS which prior to FOA were hitting 115k at times. This would drop them down below 100k hopefully.

As your rotations and such weren’t optimized to hit this clearly any DPS hit you take would be significantly smaller (or depending on builds you may even get a boost). It’s all for closing the gap between them and you.

"Them and you"... you mean those 100k parses on Youtube that almost no one can get? Especially on console?? That is NOT what a game should be balanced around, and punishing those who do hit those numbers because others can't is wrong. Don't fool yourself by thinking any of the changes ever help lower level players. Nerfs hurt everyone and always have.

It wasn’t the developers design to have any players hitting 100k+ DPS. That much has been clear for a long time. Since CP increases were stopped in Murkmire new sets allowed lower performing players to increase their DPS and complete content without stagnating. The con is that the top performing DPS players also increased their output. So you increases the ability for all players to complete content but at the same time did nothing or increased the power gap between them.

The new CP 2.0 has indeed begun to close the gap. I see CP 400 players that with rotations can hit close to CP 1800 players. Furthermore the top end DPS nerfs allow the developers to once again build balanced content. Currently one shot mechanics are pervasive to deal with high DPS that burns through stuff too fast and can withstand everything. Yet at the same time lower end players couldn’t even complete the stuff.

This all needed to happen

what really needs to happen is perfect rotation gear and timing not outdpsing the floor 5 to 1 or more.

Until something is done about that. Everything is always just gonna be a bandaid.

Almost agree, but. The top players who manage to squeeze out a 100k-120k dps on a dummy don't do so because they came up with a "perfect" build that nobody else can put together. 99% of players can copy those builds down to every tiny detail and end up dealing 70k max.

Why? Because "rotation" and "timing" aka animation canceling aka a stupid bug that should have been fixed years ago. At the very least something should have been done about LA damage... maybe. Or they should have increased the damage of heavy attacks. Or they should have actually worked on "weaving" and given it more forgiving timings so more players could manage it. Oh and then there are the people who will never manage weaving because of high ping.

But nah. Let's nerf CP further, that will totally destroy that huge dps difference between the "floor and the ceiling." As a result all of those nerfs hit the players who rely on gear the most. Those who rely on their rotations will keep on setting dps records.

And no, I'm not even saying we should remove animation cancelling (though I sure wish it happened a long time ago), it is obvious that certain groups of players would downright leave the game if it happened. But something needs to be done with it. If ZOS managed to lower the dps difference originating from it. We would all be enjoying the benefits. Like hopefully less CP nerfs once it becomes obvious that CP is not the problem.

They need to stop creating these mythic items that are going to be 'abused' (for lack of a better term- they'll figure out how to remove the 'curse' from what should be a 'kiss curse' item) by the tip top groups and then nerfed to the ground (RIP Thrassian Stranglers, 2020-2020).

A Mythic that would actually help the 'floor' would be something that increases the damage of your skills but cuts the DPS of light/heavy attacks dramatically. If they could figure out the point where LA weaving starts outperforming that, they could balance that item to be ~15% lower than that threshold. More people could pull better damage without having to feel like they need to LA weave, but LA weaving would still be rewarded.

Giving the ceiling access to things that are supposed to raise the floor seems to just raise the ceiling as well.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

Iarao wrote: »

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

They need to adjust high end achievements accordingly then. There are some achievements that were already excruciatingly more difficult on console WITH that higher power because of the fact that console doesn't have addons and must wear the same gear for every fight.

How long did it take someone on console to get godslayer, I believe was the one that people suspected wasn't even possible at first? I can't remember which one because I'm not running that kind of content but I know there was one people were banging their heads against the wall on for months until an xbox group barely managed it.

The time achievements should have the same relative difficulty as they did when people earned those rewards (and should be timed under the presumption that you're not using addons) if they plan on lowering the dps.

If they lower the high end achievements, then the cycle begins again. They nerf us, then nerf the content, so on and so on and so on. I'll reserve my scathing commentary on the matter, but the amount of players who actually can complete achievements at the highest end is so laughably small that I greatly wonder why they even exist. I'll start worrying about "power creep" when half the community is running around with Z'maja's Shadow.

people sell carries. so maybe that is how half the community will get that skin? not sure where it drops so maybe it isnt possible to do that content with just 3 heavies and a lightweight.

Z'maja's Shadow skin is from veteran Cloudrest +3. And yes, you can buy a carry if you feel like dropping about 9 million gold. That's perfectly healthy for the game! I've been working my butt off for over three years to maintain acceptable levels of dps but oh man, power creep guys... I'd better just buy a carry because zos says dps is bad and my dps is too high Maybe they'll sell it in the crown store instead right?

Anonx31st

Great and welcoming changes. Good job ZOS! The power disparity has been a huge turn off for new players for over 7 years now. It's finally time to close that power disparity gap, especially when newer player will be playing this game with the next gen graphic update.

Sylvermynx

Actually, I'm expecting to have somewhat of a power drop on my mid 500s, mid 400s, mid 200s and barely 160 CP characters. My experience is that when they whack something everything gets whacked even if it was stated it wouldn't affect lower levels.

Right now, my CP characters are actually better in combat by a little than before CP 2.0 - I'm not expecting that to last....

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

Anonx31st wrote: »

Great and welcoming changes. Good job ZOS! The power disparity has been a huge turn off for new players for over 7 years now. It's finally time to close that power disparity gap, especially when newer player will be playing this game with the next gen graphic update.

Come back to me on that after you've been here a few years.

Anonx31st

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

Anonx31st wrote: »

Great and welcoming changes. Good job ZOS! The power disparity has been a huge turn off for new players for over 7 years now. It's finally time to close that power disparity gap, especially when newer player will be playing this game with the next gen graphic update.

Come back to me on that after you've been here a few years.

Oh, I have been playing since PS4 beta. Had 8 v16's, [snip]

[edited for baiting]