"We're Taking Some of the Power Out of the High End Experience"

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

Can someone who has access to PTS please include exactly how much power is being taken away from the cp? There were no numbers or percentages in the patch notes, and I am quite interested in learning them. Many thanks in advance.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

PTS is still offline.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

PTS is still offline.

Unfortunate... Thank you for the response.

VaranisArano

The CP 2.0 FAQ said the goal was to take 15-20% away, and ZOS said they didn't quite make that and were going to looks for other ways to reach that goal, if that helps contextualize what to expect from ZOS.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

VaranisArano wrote: »

The CP 2.0 FAQ said the goal was to take 15-20% away, and ZOS said they didn't quite make that and were going to looks for other ways to reach that goal, if that helps contextualize what to expect from ZOS.

Lovely....

Casul

Was fun being at 47k while it lasted.

Jaimeh

Testing hasn't started but despite the cp nerf, for which the values are not that big in terms of impact in pve (with the exception of pen for stam) there's other sources of damage added, and the change to proc sets, so it might not be a nerf overall.

spartaxoxo

They need to adjust high end achievements accordingly then. There are some achievements that were already excruciatingly more difficult on console WITH that higher power because of the fact that console doesn't have addons and must wear the same gear for every fight.

How long did it take someone on console to get godslayer, I believe was the one that people suspected wasn't even possible at first? I can't remember which one because I'm not running that kind of content but I know there was one people were banging their heads against the wall on for months until an xbox group barely managed it.

The time achievements should have the same relative difficulty as they did when people earned those rewards (and should be timed under the presumption that you're not using addons) if they plan on lowering the dps.

Casul

spartaxoxo wrote: »

They need to adjust high end achievements accordingly then. There are some achievements that were already excruciatingly more difficult on console WITH that higher power because of the fact that console doesn't have addons and must wear the same gear for every fight.

How long did it take someone on console to get godslayer, I believe was the one that people suspected wasn't even possible at first? I can't remember which one because I'm not running that kind of content but I know there was one people were banging their heads against the wall on for months until an xbox group barely managed it.

The time achievements should have the same relative difficulty as they did when people earned those rewards (and should be timed under the presumption that you're not using addons) if they plan on lowering the dps.

I personally have only seen one godslayer on NA ps4. So that basically means 12 people have it total. I asked and first clear was 29:09, latest was 28:46 iirc. If they browse the forums maybe they can correct me.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

spartaxoxo wrote: »

They need to adjust high end achievements accordingly then. There are some achievements that were already excruciatingly more difficult on console WITH that higher power because of the fact that console doesn't have addons and must wear the same gear for every fight.

How long did it take someone on console to get godslayer, I believe was the one that people suspected wasn't even possible at first? I can't remember which one because I'm not running that kind of content but I know there was one people were banging their heads against the wall on for months until an xbox group barely managed it.

The time achievements should have the same relative difficulty as they did when people earned those rewards (and should be timed under the presumption that you're not using addons) if they plan on lowering the dps.

If they lower the high end achievements, then the cycle begins again. They nerf us, then nerf the content, so on and so on and so on. I'll reserve my scathing commentary on the matter, but the amount of players who actually can complete achievements at the highest end is so laughably small that I greatly wonder why they even exist. I'll start worrying about "power creep" when half the community is running around with Z'maja's Shadow.

Stevie6

15 to 20 % damage nerf...any nerf to the top end will affect the bottom as well. The bottom feeders will never see the light of day while the upper crust will always be catered to. The 1% will adapt and survive. The devs could just raise the floor to pre HorrorWind damage and shields. That would be a start and let the lower end have a voice /input on buffs or nerfs. We, the casual player, will never have anything consistent because of continuous nerfs. By the time I get an item, it’s already nerfed due to someone crying in PVP. Keep PvP and PVE separated finally. You might have less complaints.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

Stevie6 wrote: »

15 to 20 % damage nerf...any nerf to the top end will affect the bottom as well. The bottom feeders will never see the light of day while the upper crust will always be catered to. The 1% will adapt and survive. The devs could just raise the floor to pre HorrorWind damage and shields. That would be a start and let the lower end have a voice /input on buffs or nerfs. We, the casual player, will never have anything consistent because of continuous nerfs. By the time I get an item, it’s already nerfed due to someone crying in PVP. Keep PvP and PVE separated finally. You might have less complaints.

Agreed. I run a progression trials team, with mid-high end damage, and I these nerfs are killing us. Progressions that were within reach before are being literally wrenched away from us, for what?? Because one or two teams finished Gryphon Heart by skipping portal mechanics?? If a team is that good and have worked that hard, they should be REWARDED, not PUNISHED. And the rest of the entire community is also PUNISHED. The low cp students I teach become discouraged and leave, the teams fall apart, and the 1% continue their amazing feats. I am sick of it.

Everest_Lionheart

BuildMan wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

They need to adjust high end achievements accordingly then. There are some achievements that were already excruciatingly more difficult on console WITH that higher power because of the fact that console doesn't have addons and must wear the same gear for every fight.

How long did it take someone on console to get godslayer, I believe was the one that people suspected wasn't even possible at first? I can't remember which one because I'm not running that kind of content but I know there was one people were banging their heads against the wall on for months until an xbox group barely managed it.

The time achievements should have the same relative difficulty as they did when people earned those rewards (and should be timed under the presumption that you're not using addons) if they plan on lowering the dps.

I personally have only seen one godslayer on NA ps4. So that basically means 12 people have it total. I asked and first clear was 29:09, latest was 28:46 iirc. If they browse the forums maybe they can correct me.

Meanwhile I would be thrilled just to get one of my teams through regular vSS on. XB1 NA without people disconnecting. Always happens to at least 1 person at some point.

Can we please keep the power in the high end experience and maybe focus a little bit on performance?

SirLeeMinion

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

Can we please keep the power in the high end experience and maybe focus a little bit on performance?

No! You'll get nothing and like it!


P.S. Don't forget to buy companions and crown crates.

Vlad9425

I’d love to know the logic behind this decision because bad players will still continue to get destroyed by good players but all you’re going to do is *** off the end game community even more to the point where people start quitting this game.

Greasytengu

Next update looks like it has a lot of potential.

A lot potential to be the most universally unliked update in the game's history.


who asked for these changes?

Starlock

If they're "taking some of the power out of the high end experience" they're taking even more out of the rest. Not just because of the CP changes, but because of the changes to proc set scaling.

I wonder what was wrong with the approach they used with CP 1.0? In CP 1.0, they front loaded the benefits of investment and more investment had diminishing returns. It'd equalize players while still making the progression feel meaningful to the number chasers who want the last inch out of everything. Everyone else would still have most of the power at lower CP. Why wouldn't that work here?

Greasytengu wrote: »

A lot potential to be the most universally unliked update in the game's history.

Yeah, even I'm on that list right now because of how much this patch is going to negatively impact solo storytellers like myself. Usually game mechanics changes aren't that impactful for me. The CP changes are a mix of good and bad that I can deal with. Taking at least a third of the power out of many of the sets I use to help define my characters? As someone who follows the roleplayer's meta I can't just swap out sets like yesterday's fashion. So I'm just gonna have gimped characters and no way to make up for that lost power.

Greasytengu

Starlock wrote: »

If they're "taking some of the power out of the high end experience" they're taking even more out of the rest. Not just because of the CP changes, but because of the changes to proc set scaling.

I wonder what was wrong with the approach they used with CP 1.0? In CP 1.0, they front loaded the benefits of investment and more investment had diminishing returns. It'd equalize players while still making the progression feel meaningful to the number chasers who want the last inch out of everything. Everyone else would still have most of the power at lower CP. Why wouldn't that work here?

Greasytengu wrote: »

A lot potential to be the most universally unliked update in the game's history.

Yeah, even I'm on that list right now because of how much this patch is going to negatively impact solo storytellers like myself. Usually game mechanics changes aren't that impactful for me. The CP changes are a mix of good and bad that I can deal with. Taking at least a third of the power out of many of the sets I use to help define my characters? As someone who follows the roleplayer's meta I can't just swap out sets like yesterday's fashion. So I'm just gonna have gimped characters and no way to make up for that lost power.

Man they somehow managed to *** off the RPers. I don't think ive ever seen the RP community complain about any change, let alone this much.

Kurat

Only passive stars got nerfed. Most dps buffs come from slottables and remained the same. So the nerf from cp is only 1-2%.
But there are other nerfs like sets and skills (orb - major nerf for mag dps).

redspecter23

Greasytengu wrote: »

Next update looks like it has a lot of potential.

A lot potential to be the most universally unliked update in the game's history.


who asked for these changes?

"In response to the feedback that there is still too much vertical progression in the Champion Point system, we have further reduced the maximum number of stages for passive stars (non-slotted) available."

Quoted from the PTS patch notes so the answer to your question about who asked for it is apparently the players. That's funny because I haven't talked to a single person that asked for this, let alone a large enough amount of players to justify a sweeping nerf. I've heard players ask for a lot of things. This is not one of them.

zvavi

From the pts patch notes it seems like damage and mitigation are being nerfed only a bit, if at all. So it is not all doom and gloom. We are probably going to be a lot stronger, thanks to our new p2w mythic.
From previous patch:

This PTS cycle:

oddbasket

redspecter23 wrote: »

Greasytengu wrote: »

Next update looks like it has a lot of potential.

A lot potential to be the most universally unliked update in the game's history.


who asked for these changes?

"In response to the feedback that there is still too much vertical progression in the Champion Point system, we have further reduced the maximum number of stages for passive stars (non-slotted) available."

Quoted from the PTS patch notes so the answer to your question about who asked for it is apparently the players. That's funny because I haven't talked to a single person that asked for this, let alone a large enough amount of players to justify a sweeping nerf. I've heard players ask for a lot of things. This is not one of them.

PVP players who remained 800-1000 cp? I recall some threads about some players being at the top of their game but now finding themselves unable to compete, since the content they play don't allow as rapid progression compared to pve grinds, which puts the number of points required out of their reach.

VaranisArano

oddbasket wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Greasytengu wrote: »

Next update looks like it has a lot of potential.

A lot potential to be the most universally unliked update in the game's history.


who asked for these changes?

"In response to the feedback that there is still too much vertical progression in the Champion Point system, we have further reduced the maximum number of stages for passive stars (non-slotted) available."

Quoted from the PTS patch notes so the answer to your question about who asked for it is apparently the players. That's funny because I haven't talked to a single person that asked for this, let alone a large enough amount of players to justify a sweeping nerf. I've heard players ask for a lot of things. This is not one of them.

PVP players who remained 800-1000 cp? I recall some threads about some players being at the top of their game but now finding themselves unable to compete, since the content they play don't allow as rapid progression compared to pve grinds, which puts the number of points required out of their reach.

As one of those PVPers who's in that gap, I wish ZOS had dealt with it in a more proactive way.

They could have better streamlined the progression in the first place, or compensated everyone for some of their CP, so that both PVE and PVP players were right in the area they should have been. Instead, they designed it so that PVE end game players were pretty much at the level of needed CP, while PVP players at the same point had a long way to go. They knew that. They got that feedback. And they let it go Live and let everyone get to grinding, probably so they could judge just how much CP people were gain in about 2 months of dedicated CP grinding before they announced any changes.

I don't particularly like the situation I was in with CP PVP. That's the type I prefer and it's the type my guild plays. Having to step back and grind until I was ready to put my best foot forward again doesn't feel good.

But this retroactive response of "Hey, we know you just spent the last 2 months grinding, now we're gonna nerf it all respond to your concerns that were totally predictable and expressed on the PTS"...it just feels bad. Real bad. And I totally get why players aren't happy.

Amottica

Vlad9425 wrote: »

I’d love to know the logic behind this decision because bad players will still continue to get destroyed by good players but all you’re going to do is *** off the end game community even more to the point where people start quitting this game.

I would suggest a bad player does not really lose much as the CP system seems to work off how well a player does. a 10% increase or decrease of low-end DPS is very small.

Edit
I am not suggesting I like the changes or not.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

zvavi wrote: »

From the pts patch notes it seems like damage and mitigation are being nerfed only a bit, if at all. So it is not all doom and gloom. We are probably going to be a lot stronger, thanks to our new p2w mythic.
From previous patch:

This PTS cycle:

I despise mythic items, and that piece will only make people feel artificially strong while dummy parsing. In actual content I feel like it will have very limited usefulness.

trackdemon5512

BuildMan wrote: »

Was fun being at 47k while it lasted.

10-15% from the highest performing DPS which prior to FOA were hitting 115k at times. This would drop them down below 100k hopefully.

As your rotations and such weren’t optimized to hit this clearly any DPS hit you take would be significantly smaller (or depending on builds you may even get a boost). It’s all for closing the gap between them and you.

renne

spartaxoxo wrote: »

How long did it take someone on console to get godslayer, I believe was the one that people suspected wasn't even possible at first? I can't remember which one because I'm not running that kind of content but I know there was one people were banging their heads against the wall on for months until an xbox group barely managed it.

I looked into this a while back and the first console Godslayer was on Xbox-NA in Feb 2020, the first on PS4 was on NA in November 2020. Elsweyr released on console on 04 June 2019, if anyone wants to know how long that means it took for console to get there.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

BuildMan wrote: »

Was fun being at 47k while it lasted.

10-15% from the highest performing DPS which prior to FOA were hitting 115k at times. This would drop them down below 100k hopefully.

As your rotations and such weren’t optimized to hit this clearly any DPS hit you take would be significantly smaller (or depending on builds you may even get a boost). It’s all for closing the gap between them and you.

"Them and you"... you mean those 100k parses on Youtube that almost no one can get? Especially on console?? That is NOT what a game should be balanced around, and punishing those who do hit those numbers because others can't is wrong. Don't fool yourself by thinking any of the changes ever help lower level players. Nerfs hurt everyone and always have.

carlos424

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

From the pts patch notes it seems like damage and mitigation are being nerfed only a bit, if at all. So it is not all doom and gloom. We are probably going to be a lot stronger, thanks to our new p2w mythic.
From previous patch:

This PTS cycle:

I despise mythic items, and that piece will only make people feel artificially strong while dummy parsing. In actual content I feel like it will have very limited usefulness.

Na, this will be on every dps in trials in it’s current form. Gain a stack every second from direct damage? So you will basically be fully stacked after 10 seconds. You only lose 1 stack when you take direct damage. How many direct damage hits does one take in a trial? If youre dps, not many and still survive. And even if you do, you lose only 1 stack, which you will immediately gain back with every light attack. This is op. 1190 crit chance and 20% crit damage at full stacks? Ya, op.
In fact, you can probably drop the 10% crit damage node and add one of the new ones like master at arms-probably would do that anyway without the legs, but now you basically keep the crit (double what node was giving) and add master at arms. I’d be surprised if this isn’t nerfed. Hope not tho

Katahdin

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

Stevie6 wrote: »

15 to 20 % damage nerf...any nerf to the top end will affect the bottom as well. The bottom feeders will never see the light of day while the upper crust will always be catered to. The 1% will adapt and survive. The devs could just raise the floor to pre HorrorWind damage and shields. That would be a start and let the lower end have a voice /input on buffs or nerfs. We, the casual player, will never have anything consistent because of continuous nerfs. By the time I get an item, it’s already nerfed due to someone crying in PVP. Keep PvP and PVE separated finally. You might have less complaints.

Agreed. I run a progression trials team, with mid-high end damage, and I these nerfs are killing us. Progressions that were within reach before are being literally wrenched away from us, for what?? Because one or two teams finished Gryphon Heart by skipping portal mechanics?? If a team is that good and have worked that hard, they should be REWARDED, not PUNISHED. And the rest of the entire community is also PUNISHED. The low cp students I teach become discouraged and leave, the teams fall apart, and the 1% continue their amazing feats. I am sick of it.

I agree, I too am sick and tired of working my tail off to get to "acceptable" levels of DPS just to get kicked back down with every nerf and "balance" pass.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

carlos424 wrote: »

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

From the pts patch notes it seems like damage and mitigation are being nerfed only a bit, if at all. So it is not all doom and gloom. We are probably going to be a lot stronger, thanks to our new p2w mythic.
From previous patch:

This PTS cycle:

I despise mythic items, and that piece will only make people feel artificially strong while dummy parsing. In actual content I feel like it will have very limited usefulness.

Na, this will be on every dps in trials in it’s current form. Gain a stack every second from direct damage? So you will basically be fully stacked after 10 seconds. You only lose 1 stack when you take direct damage. How many direct damage hits does one take in a trial? If youre dps, not many and still survive. And even if you do, you lose only 1 stack, which you will immediately gain back with every light attack. This is op. 1190 crit chance and 20% crit damage at full stacks? Ya, op.
In fact, you can probably drop the 10% crit damage node and add one of the new ones like master at arms-probably would do that anyway without the legs, but now you basically keep the crit (double what node was giving) and add master at arms. I’d be surprised if this isn’t nerfed. Hope not tho

Suppose it does retain a margin of usefulness, in theory. It will be nerfed then, as you said. I am NOT wasting my time farming something I know will be nerfed... It's just another shiny to get people to buy the chapter. Nerfs across the board, but oh look! Just buy the chapter and you'll be okay as long as X and X and X condition is met in combat!