12 person group limit? Whaaaaaat?

VaxtinTheWolf

Group sizes are 12 Players + 12 Companions now to equal 24.

/s

VaranisArano

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Maybe because loot only goes to 12 people.

They changed that for the Elsweyr dragons. I dunno why they can't do that for all the other bosses.

Grimlok_S

About time, especially regarding IC. Not that it makes much difference considering you can heal outside your group again..

Either way, when engaging bosses only top 12 dps get loot. Anything exceeding 12 always left someone out.

Epona222

Grimlok_S wrote: »

About time, especially regarding IC. Not that it makes much difference considering you can heal outside your group again..

Either way, when engaging bosses only top 12 dps get loot. Anything exceeding 12 always left someone out.

A good guild will arrange a run with more than 12 people so that we do each multiple times and some of the hard hitter dps folks hang back and let the more casual players get a turn, but that is for us within our guilds to organise - we chat and socialise at the same time.

I don't have a problem with limiting group size in Cyro or IC but halving it in overland which will affect a lot of social/casual play/rp guilds is wrong.

We can organise among ourselves who can stand back to let newbies get loot from a WB when in a larger than 12 group, we don't need Zeni to enforce a limit on us for that reason.

I'm also as already stated perfectly happy with the confirmation the group leader gets about forming a large group being used to disable companions in groups over 12 - I don't see that as a big issue, when a guild gets together it is because they want to group with other players, not a dozen Bastian clones.

observertim

I don't like to express my displeasure without providing some kind of alternative or way to make it work, so here it is.

For RP'ers and those who wish to coordiante large activities (like me), this could be mitigated somewhat by the ability to create an "extended group" chat channel which would allow members of multiple groups to chat in a semi-private space. Not totally sure of the mechanics of it, but it seems within capabilities of the chat subsystem.

Of course, I would also like a "friends" broadcast channel, but that's just me.

ObserverTim
The Rusty (Rusty Old Dragons)

Grimlok_S

observertim wrote: »

I don't like to express my displeasure without providing some kind of alternative or way to make it work, so here it is.

For RP'ers and those who wish to coordiante large activities (like me), this could be mitigated somewhat by the ability to create an "extended group" chat channel which would allow members of multiple groups to chat in a semi-private space. Not totally sure of the mechanics of it, but it seems within capabilities of the chat subsystem.

Of course, I would also like a "friends" broadcast channel, but that's just me.

ObserverTim
The Rusty (Rusty Old Dragons)

Sounds like.. A guild?

VaranisArano

Okay, I could see the reason for lowering the group size in Cyrodiil back with Markarth. Organized raids in PVP get a lot of mileage out of stacking support sets and damage in a small area. Lowering the group size does help, though it doesn't hurt ball groups who tended to be on the smaller side. I didn't like it, but I could see the reasoning.

So what's the rationale for applying it to PVE?

Were the zergs of 24-player groups at the Alkir Dolmens starting to tank the server or something?

Did ZOS really see that much improvement in Cyrodiil (players did not see that much improvement, IMO) that they thought it was a good idea to extend this to Dragon Hunts, Harrowstorms, Oblivion Gates, and World Boss groups during events?

Like, really, what IS the point of reducing group size in PVE?

tyran404_ESO

Grimlok_S wrote: »

observertim wrote: »

I don't like to express my displeasure without providing some kind of alternative or way to make it work, so here it is.

For RP'ers and those who wish to coordiante large activities (like me), this could be mitigated somewhat by the ability to create an "extended group" chat channel which would allow members of multiple groups to chat in a semi-private space. Not totally sure of the mechanics of it, but it seems within capabilities of the chat subsystem.

Of course, I would also like a "friends" broadcast channel, but that's just me.

ObserverTim
The Rusty (Rusty Old Dragons)

Sounds like.. A guild?

Roleplayers host community and cross-guild events as well, not just inner guild.

and well guild slots are precious and limited resources.

Epona222

VaranisArano wrote: »

Okay, I could see the reason for lowering the group size in Cyrodiil back with Markarth. Organized raids in PVP get a lot of mileage out of stacking support sets and damage in a small area. Lowering the group size does help, though it doesn't hurt ball groups who tended to be on the smaller side. I didn't like it, but I could see the reasoning.

So what's the rationale for applying it to PVE?

Were the zergs of 24-player groups at the Alkir Dolmens starting to tank the server or something?

Did ZOS really see that much improvement in Cyrodiil (players did not see that much improvement, IMO) that they thought it was a good idea to extend this to Dragon Hunts, Harrowstorms, Oblivion Gates, and World Boss groups during events?

Like, really, what IS the point of reducing group size in PVE?

Especially since most players in my experience join in dolmen runs and dragon hunts as solo players anyway, it's not like the Alik'r Dolmen Train is going to be reduced by limiting group size - it's not a guild event, people just run it solo and that accounts for the majority of players there. Similar with dragon hunts, people see a dragon symbol on the map/compass, they have a dragonhunt quest active or want a lead or loot and run along to join in.

The only people this change is affecting is casual/overland play guilds - many of which may not hold records for getting on trial leaderboards or getting Emperor, but nevertheless form the backbone of ESO.

VaranisArano

Epona222 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Okay, I could see the reason for lowering the group size in Cyrodiil back with Markarth. Organized raids in PVP get a lot of mileage out of stacking support sets and damage in a small area. Lowering the group size does help, though it doesn't hurt ball groups who tended to be on the smaller side. I didn't like it, but I could see the reasoning.

So what's the rationale for applying it to PVE?

Were the zergs of 24-player groups at the Alkir Dolmens starting to tank the server or something?

Did ZOS really see that much improvement in Cyrodiil (players did not see that much improvement, IMO) that they thought it was a good idea to extend this to Dragon Hunts, Harrowstorms, Oblivion Gates, and World Boss groups during events?

Like, really, what IS the point of reducing group size in PVE?

Especially since most players in my experience join in dolmen runs and dragon hunts as solo players anyway, it's not like the Alik'r Dolmen Train is going to be reduced by limiting group size - it's not a guild event, people just run it solo and that accounts for the majority of players there. Similar with dragon hunts, people see a dragon symbol on the map/compass, they have a dragonhunt quest active or want a lead or loot and run along to join in.

The only people this change is affecting is casual/overland play groups - many of which may not hold records for getting on trial leaderboards or getting Emperor, but nevertheless form the backbone of ESO.

About the only time I see groups is for daily sharing, like during Events. Then, it's all "Type G for Graveld" in Summerset chat.

Otherwise, yeah, I'm joining as a solo player.

Epona222

VaranisArano wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Okay, I could see the reason for lowering the group size in Cyrodiil back with Markarth. Organized raids in PVP get a lot of mileage out of stacking support sets and damage in a small area. Lowering the group size does help, though it doesn't hurt ball groups who tended to be on the smaller side. I didn't like it, but I could see the reasoning.

So what's the rationale for applying it to PVE?

Were the zergs of 24-player groups at the Alkir Dolmens starting to tank the server or something?

Did ZOS really see that much improvement in Cyrodiil (players did not see that much improvement, IMO) that they thought it was a good idea to extend this to Dragon Hunts, Harrowstorms, Oblivion Gates, and World Boss groups during events?

Like, really, what IS the point of reducing group size in PVE?

Especially since most players in my experience join in dolmen runs and dragon hunts as solo players anyway, it's not like the Alik'r Dolmen Train is going to be reduced by limiting group size - it's not a guild event, people just run it solo and that accounts for the majority of players there. Similar with dragon hunts, people see a dragon symbol on the map/compass, they have a dragonhunt quest active or want a lead or loot and run along to join in.

The only people this change is affecting is casual/overland play groups - many of which may not hold records for getting on trial leaderboards or getting Emperor, but nevertheless form the backbone of ESO.

About the only time I see groups is for daily sharing, like during Events. Then, it's all "Type G for Graveld" in Summerset chat.

Otherwise, yeah, I'm joining as a solo player.

Exactly, this change is not going to affect stuff like Alik'r Dolmens.

What it *will* affect (negatively) is those guilds that like to get together on a Saturday night for some casual play and social interaction or guilds helping people get achievements etc, it isn't going to have any affect on performance, it is just a pointless restriction on a main social point of this game which I thought was supposed to be Multiplayer.

big_ear_midget

ZOS!!! WTF?? this is such a bad bad idea!! in the guild I co-run, I do world boss events EVERY WEEK and have 18+ people EVERY WEEK..so now will have to run two groups?? this is a horrible idea..please don't do this, I beg you!! why do you have to change things that are working?? please rethink this idea...

jen

zaria

Andarnor wrote: »

for small noob guilds it's annoying anyway that PvP was limited to 12, you need 2 leaders for everything, etc. I don't understand why it has to be the same in other areas. In dungeons the group is separated anyway if there are too many, but now you need registrations even for planned open world guild events, world bosses etc. and not everyone can join. We were never 24, but always more than 12. Bad decision for all guild players who value community

Yes, social events is one, like Cyrodil groups are much harder to organize with an 12 man group so will they-

observertim

Grimlok_S wrote: »

observertim wrote: »

I don't like to express my displeasure without providing some kind of alternative or way to make it work, so here it is.

For RP'ers and those who wish to coordiante large activities (like me), this could be mitigated somewhat by the ability to create an "extended group" chat channel which would allow members of multiple groups to chat in a semi-private space. Not totally sure of the mechanics of it, but it seems within capabilities of the chat subsystem.

Of course, I would also like a "friends" broadcast channel, but that's just me.

ObserverTim
The Rusty (Rusty Old Dragons)

Sounds like.. A guild?

Actually, our World Boss run is a 3-guild event. It allows people from multiple guilds to get together and throw a party where we eat Group Bosses (note new terminology, lol). Would you sacrifice a guild slot for one weekly event? What if you were in several?

drekkanlycurgusb14_ESO

I want to explain to people why the nerf to the maximum group size effects everyone in this game, and not just roleplayers. I am a guild co-leader who runs roleplay events for large groups of people. I use group chat for narration, because not everyone in my "guild" has enough in-game guild slots to join the actual in-game guild, making it so that I can't use Guild Chat for narration without people missing important posts.

Now, here is why this affects all of you: I am a very verbose writer. I write multiple paragraphs that take multiple full sized posts in order to complete. If those go into a spacial channel, such as /yell, those six to ten full sized posts are going to spam your chat window as you are out farming dragons or dolmens or doing your crafting writs.

Not to mention, doing Combat RP means that I have to add visceral descriptions of combat. With a 24 player group limit, I can keep those very gory, very detailed posts private so you don't have to see them, because people who are doing their writs or dragons don't want to see gory descriptions of people being beheaded, disemboweled, etc being yelled.

Not to mention, I'll get reported for spamming the yell channel, because of the small character limit in the chat window means that I have to yell four to eight times, because I have to break my paragraphs up into multiple posts due to character limits.

In Guild Wars 2, the /say range used to be map wide. In the open weekend betas, if you were a non-roleplayer in Divinities Reach, you were getting SPAMMED by EVERYONE's posts. They were FORCED to lower the visible range of /say, because the Non-Roleplayers got sick of being unable to escape our RP. That should serve as an example.

Even if you don't roleplay, even if you play SOLO, you will be affected by this, because our large group RP will be spamming your chat window. Just some food for thought.

MasterSpatula

This is already bad enough in PVP, as my guild's PVP nights usually draw around 15 to 18 people. with group two stuck being really small, often getting left behind, and generally feeling a bit left out.

PVP groups should be going back up to 24, not PVE groups down to 12. This is an unambiguously bad change.

Futerko

what about housing visitors limit? is that mean we no longer can inv 24 ppl to our houses (notable home) only 12? or still 24 but not in 1 grp

observertim

Futerko wrote: »

what about housing visitors limit? is that mean we no longer can inv 24 ppl to our houses (notable home) only 12? or still 24 but not in 1 grp

If read strictly, the change will have no effect on house capacity, only on the number in a particular group.

Evil_Rurouni

This will hurt auctioneers that operate using group chat to avoid clogging up their guild chats and/or local chats with hundreds of bids.
You can expect to see these previously private auctions clogging up your chat feeds if this goes through like this.

This will be inconvenient for players and may well actually increase lag due to servers having to forward bids to the feed of more people.

indigojulze

What about RP groups? We regularly have 15 plus people show up to our events and we use Group chat to coordinate. Or if we're in a public area we RP in group chat.

What is this?

I honestly do not get why this change is even needed.

Grimlok_S

observertim wrote: »

Grimlok_S wrote: »

observertim wrote: »

I don't like to express my displeasure without providing some kind of alternative or way to make it work, so here it is.

For RP'ers and those who wish to coordiante large activities (like me), this could be mitigated somewhat by the ability to create an "extended group" chat channel which would allow members of multiple groups to chat in a semi-private space. Not totally sure of the mechanics of it, but it seems within capabilities of the chat subsystem.

Of course, I would also like a "friends" broadcast channel, but that's just me.

ObserverTim
The Rusty (Rusty Old Dragons)

Sounds like.. A guild?

Actually, our World Boss run is a 3-guild event. It allows people from multiple guilds to get together and throw a party where we eat Group Bosses (note new terminology, lol). Would you sacrifice a guild slot for one weekly event? What if you were in several?

3 Guilds could be 1500 people.. Sounds like you were a little over the 24 cap to begin with!

Exquisition

Oh bull... this is really annoying!!!
We are doing lots of Guild Events outside Cyrodiil with groups bigger then 12 people. I already thought a maximum of 24 was ridiculously low. It is super annoying cause if you are in multiple groups and in 1 voice chat, it is always a trouble to see the people from the 2nd group in game.

ZOS should replace the servers and improve the quality of them, instead of downgrading game abilities!

Ashryn

I don't like this change, but I do see why they are doing it. I love fighting the dragons in Southern Elswehr, but sometimes there are way over 12 people and the server does seem to be taxed. However, I and other SOLO players don't like to be forced into groups to play this stuff either!

observertim

Grimlok_S wrote: »

observertim wrote: »

Grimlok_S wrote: »

observertim wrote: »

I don't like to express my displeasure without providing some kind of alternative or way to make it work, so here it is.

For RP'ers and those who wish to coordiante large activities (like me), this could be mitigated somewhat by the ability to create an "extended group" chat channel which would allow members of multiple groups to chat in a semi-private space. Not totally sure of the mechanics of it, but it seems within capabilities of the chat subsystem.

Of course, I would also like a "friends" broadcast channel, but that's just me.

ObserverTim
The Rusty (Rusty Old Dragons)

Sounds like.. A guild?

Actually, our World Boss run is a 3-guild event. It allows people from multiple guilds to get together and throw a party where we eat Group Bosses (note new terminology, lol). Would you sacrifice a guild slot for one weekly event? What if you were in several?

3 Guilds could be 1500 people.. Sounds like you were a little over the 24 cap to begin with!

We don't get 100% participation, lol. We usually get 18-22 people.

Jaimeh

Schmertz wrote: »

Can only speak for the RPers here, but a lot of Roleplayers, especially in large community gatherings, rely on large groups for organization. It can already be a headache to hold large-scale RP events with "just" 24 slots, and splitting that up surely won't make things easier.

They really goofed us on this one.

I don't RP but I've attended some events, like theatre shows or fashion shows and having a big group was necessary for organization, which is already complicated during events like these, so I can imagine the frustration, and like somebody else said above, they could have changed a number of things for improvement before resorting to halving group size in pve.

JoHegl

I can only second what others have said before.

So far we are able to form one group of up to 24 people for all sorts of guild activities (skyshard tours, wb tours, fishing, and much more).

This serves two purposes:
(1) Have a channel to chat in that is private and does not obstruct the general guild chat (we don't want to keep the other 270 guildies from the usual guild chit chat there).
(2) Keep the group together and not having to coordinate the group leaders through other means (guild chat or Discord even; and no, not all event leaders have access to our office chat).

What you are proposing there, @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , and all the other great people at ZOS, will essentially make organizing any sort of activity that is not a trial or a dungeon annoyingly complicated to run - to the extent that we may not be able to do them due to the lack of people willing to lead a group. Running events and keeping track of everything that happens at once is brainwork enough for a game that we should be able to enjoy.

Please make sure this change never makes it onto the live servers or it will hurt lots of guilds' activities and therefore the enjoyment of the game!

BlueRaven

observertim wrote: »

Grimlok_S wrote: »

observertim wrote: »

Grimlok_S wrote: »

observertim wrote: »

I don't like to express my displeasure without providing some kind of alternative or way to make it work, so here it is.

For RP'ers and those who wish to coordiante large activities (like me), this could be mitigated somewhat by the ability to create an "extended group" chat channel which would allow members of multiple groups to chat in a semi-private space. Not totally sure of the mechanics of it, but it seems within capabilities of the chat subsystem.

Of course, I would also like a "friends" broadcast channel, but that's just me.

ObserverTim
The Rusty (Rusty Old Dragons)

Sounds like.. A guild?

Actually, our World Boss run is a 3-guild event. It allows people from multiple guilds to get together and throw a party where we eat Group Bosses (note new terminology, lol). Would you sacrifice a guild slot for one weekly event? What if you were in several?

3 Guilds could be 1500 people.. Sounds like you were a little over the 24 cap to begin with!

We don't get 100% participation, lol. We usually get 18-22 people.

@observertim ‘s wb runs are really well run, I know from personal experience. Super fun groups!

Gilvoth

i dont like groups, so for me, i see it as a good thing.

Ozby

I personally like this change

BlueRaven

Gilvoth wrote: »

i dont like groups, so for me, i see it as a good thing.

How did other guilds having social events effect you negatively?

Ozby wrote: »

I personally like this change

Why?