Normal and Veteran Overland

ParaViking · April 2021

This may sound outrageously, but how about a "gimp" tree in the champion system... or the ability to invest negatively in you toons combat performance...

I would do it to spice thing up in old overland content, or be able to use my 1200 level toon to play with a friend who is just starting out... It would defiantly be more interesting then training on a target dummy...

Lol!.. or I could just be a stage 4 vamp. No, overland is too easy for them as well...

merpins · April 2021

A nerf to yourself isn't a great solution since it gives you a false sense of your abilities, unless the nerf could calculate it so it makes you about as strong as you would be based on all your stats in a vet dungeon or trial. Plus difficulty is subjective based on the dungeon: some vet dungeons are a cake walk, some are really hard. It really just depends on when the dungeon was released. It's not impossible, but it seems like such a nerf would be kind of lost depending on your character's role, and would favor DPS for the calculation and be kind of difficult when it comes to tanks and healers. It COULD work, but I'm not sure if the work implementing such a system would be more work than scaling enemy values using (easier) Vet dungeons as a base.

Course I also advocate stuff like Iron Man type experiences, where you could make a character that can't trade or use guild traders, and must get resources by themselves and whatnot, but that kind of experience is more difficult in a game like ESO. There's lots of things they could do that would be fun when it comes to increasing the difficulty of the PVE experience in the overworld, from things like prestige characters where you take a level 50 character, revert it to level 1, and then make everything harder for that character, to iron man type experiences, to buffs or debuffs...

My suggestion, the original one, is to create a space that increases engagement. By giving players a reward for playing the game, more players, after doing it once, will be happy to do it again. It could be as simple as random loot boxes of some kind as rewards, but adding it to the base game seems like a wasted opportunity, when half the playerbase also wants a harder game mode for the base game and PVE dlc's. Make a hard mode, and assign a loot box or something at the end of questlines, and increase the EXP gained on hardmode questlines, MAYBE specifically for CP exp gains since people are complaining about the difficulty that is the road to 3600.

Iccotak · April 2021

zaria wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Can we stop discussing what was a failure in the past and what was not?

There are options that don't require veteran zones, separate instances or anything like that. There are solutions that will allow both players, the one who likes difficult content and the one who doesn't like having trouble, to play together in the same place at the same time and both will have fun.

What solutions? Raise the difficulty of Overland and give optional buffs as tools we already have (no, I don't like the idea of debuffs, as weakening yourself is illogical in the context of an MMORPG), with a few levels of strength that would keep the status quo for those who like eazy gameplay, and with the choice of weaker bonuses or none at all, give a challenge for those who seek it.

It would also solve another problem. Level scaling. Currently up to 160cp players when leveling only feel weaker as the lvl increases. Get rid of lvl scaling and give us those buffs I mentioned. If they would be strong enough that even a beginner can effortlessly wade through overland content, then leveling up will make sense again. Again, we will be able to feel that with each level our strength grows and that's what RPG games are all about.

An optional debuff that could be used when the player desired would be much easier to implement, and more importantly, would not require a complete reworking of the entire game, which raising overland difficulty would.

This, now you could compensate this with more xp or better drop chances for it to make some sense rater than just nerfing yourself. For me, I probably used it for my main doing all the new quests.
Not on alts farming skillpoints, even trough I enjoy the quests I want to burn trough stuff.

An optional debuff where you still share the same instance with those not using the debuff would not be desirable.

There’s a difference between opting for a harder difficulty that rises to challenge you vs opting to make yourself weaker.

In a game about making yourself stronger - One of those is more appealing than the other, by a long shot.

It also would not make the main story bosses more mechanically engaging. It would just make the fights longer and more tedious.

SilverBride · April 2021

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

half the playerbase also wants a harder game mode for the base game and PVE dlc's.

Half is a very generous estimate. I speculate it's no more than 15%, if that. But there is no way to really know for sure.

RupzSkooma · April 2021

This game is so easy that it is like modern Pokemon game (not counting ultra sun/ultra moon) but without the variation and diversity of the gameplay.

Sarannah · April 2021

No thank you, seperating the playerbase is a terrible idea. And better rewards if players themselves want it harder, is a major no.

There is also the issue of help with world bosses, quests, etc. And different instances would mean more farming nodes/chests, which is a bad idea.

PS: I like to complete full zones on all my characters.

Daraklus · April 2021

Sarannah wrote: »

No thank you, seperating the playerbase is a terrible idea. And better rewards if players themselves want it harder, is a major no.

So I guess you are one of those who think Veteran Dungeons and Raids shouldn't have better rewards?

Iccotak · April 2021

Sarannah wrote: »

No thank you, seperating the playerbase is a terrible idea. And better rewards if players themselves want it harder, is a major no.

There is also the issue of help with world bosses, quests, etc. And different instances would mean more farming nodes/chests, which is a bad idea.

PS: I like to complete full zones on all my characters.

This frames the player populace as if it’s minuscule.

Consider that the reasons Zones feel empty are

1. Sharding players in the same zone already happens

2. Players don’t exactly have much incentive to return to older zones. No events, let alone engaging gameplay that’d make someone want to come back.

Put Zone aside, the Main Story could absolutely have a Normal/Veteran setting because that content is already instanced - that way both sides get the gameplay experience they want from the main story.

It’s still completable for the mass general audience and has something for those looking for an epic boss experience worth the wait.

CP5 · April 2021

Sarannah wrote: »

No thank you, seperating the playerbase is a terrible idea. And better rewards if players themselves want it harder, is a major no.

There is also the issue of help with world bosses, quests, etc. And different instances would mean more farming nodes/chests, which is a bad idea.

PS: I like to complete full zones on all my characters.

Players who don't engage with overland now don't contribute to the overland population save for clearing public dungeons on their way to skyshards, which if anything has a negative impact on players who are doing things like quest, giving them an instance they would enjoy would engage them there and people not interested in the increased difficulty would likely not notice a difference. Better rewards for more challenging content isn't generally needed, but a step up in item quality is both inconsequential and likely the route they would go, and something that is needed for random dailies to get vet players out of the normal random dungeon pool so they don't just kill everything before low level players get a chance at them.

As I said if the harder zones attract players who aren't engaging with overland into it then the population for normal mode won't drop so finding help with world bosses would be the same, and who would honestly go to a vet version zone to easily farm? Either it would be to difficult with an actual threat guarding most nodes, or the zone has enough unguarded nodes and the 'hard mod' zone would be full of people trying to farm and thus people would instead go to the normal zone since that zones population would have a larger percent of players doing quest away from the would be farmer.

ZOS already had zones phased to different difficulty levels before and re-implementing that shouldn't be much of a challenge nor would it have nearly as negative of an impact as people are acting like it would.

Sarannah · April 2021

Daraklus wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

No thank you, seperating the playerbase is a terrible idea. And better rewards if players themselves want it harder, is a major no.

So I guess you are one of those who think Veteran Dungeons and Raids shouldn't have better rewards?

Veteran dungeon should have better rewards than normal dungeons, yes. But there is a major difference between regularly flowing through the game, or doing starting stuff and wanting better rewards for it. A veteran difficulty would interrupt the natural flow of the game, especially if it were to give better rewards.

@Iccotak Well, the population hanging around world bosses already isn't large. Especially in off-hours. And I can agree with the part about the main story, those could have a veteran mode, as long as the rewards aren't changed.

Daraklus · April 2021

@CP5 and @Iccotak raise some pretty good points.

People keep saying how it would take a lot of time and effort to make such a shift/addition, but it doesn't make much sense considering that there is phasing/sharding tech already in place, and the game already had separate instances back before One Tamriel.

Now, unless the developers threw away all the code they had for prior builds (Which is unlikely, given that normally developers keep around older builds for archival purposes), it would not be massive work to implement it.

It is really curious to see people insist that it would make the worlds empty or what have you, but if people already aren't interested in having anything to do with the Overland, then what difference would it make if people got to play in another instance that provides a challenge?

Another thing to keep in mind that if people are already not interacting with the Overland (As you can see from people's posts that imply it), them getting a separate zone instance would make no difference to people's regular play.

Sarannah wrote: »

@Iccotak Well, the population hanging around world bosses already isn't large. Especially in off-hours. And I can agree with the part about the main story, those could have a veteran mode, as long as the rewards aren't changed.

That's weird, because I see plenty of places filled with players. Gold Coast being the hotspot for World Bosses, in fact.

Perhaps the reason that there are so few players waiting around World Bosses is because there is no great incentive to doing them, unlike doing Dolmens or Public Dungeons/Delves (Daily Quests being tied to them with a chance at giving a Motif page and a decent amount of gold). Perhaps Endeavors will be able to help with that.

Stevie6 · April 2021

When I first got into ESO, I thought wow look at this. Never once did it occur to me that I had to DPS an npc monster down. It was just, I need to use 2 to 3 skills and maybe a LA or Hvy attack as needed. The game should be this way. Damage applied thru skills.

I judge my own abilities vs a live target, a world boss. It’s not a target dummy. Fighting a world boss includes dodge rolling, etc. I’m not worried obout “dps”, I’m more worried about staying alive while applying damage when i can. That’s the reality for a casual player or low dps player and probably the vast majority of the player base for that matter.

Have the leet players ever considered what they say about a particular item or set being not balanced and getting nerfed might have gotten a casual player thru a dungeon? Then later the casual player finds out his or her playing style is gone. Then the rat race starts over again. Every patch...

The damage output thru skills alone should match up close to 20 to 30k dps without the casual player knowing what dps is. DPS should be a tool utilized by the devs to gage the performance of players and make changes accordingly behind closed doors not available to the public. Having a tool like CMX causes unnecessary problems among the player base.

The skills and equipment a player picks out should contain enough damage to kill things up to and including vet content. This next update with Blackwood is a problem. Companions won’t help a casual player. That damage could have been added to the base damage of the casual player “to raise the floor”.

Adding something like scying at the end of any dungeon run might be fun and might find a hint to obtain better armor, etc at a site somewhere. Not all people are going to run hard mode anything but the items should be made available to everyone without the titles. I might have to scry several leads to get a full set over a period of weeks or months but at least it will give casuals something to do other than basic material farming. Include everyone is all I’m saying thru different options.

Thechuckage · April 2021

If a portion of the OW existing shards were designated as Vet, it would lead to a concentration of players. Yes, some would remove themselves from the normal pool, but the normal pool would be smaller.
The players would then be more likely to run into other players running the same content due to simple space constraints.

orion_1981usub17_ESO · April 2021

The problem that will evolve with a veteran overland is the same problem we see with vet/norm randoms and craglorn/overland. I feel this discussion is mostly hot air, and simply folks dreaming of greater rewards for doing the same content they feel safe in completing. How many folks do you see questing in craglorn, even though it was more difficult? How qeues vet random when the rewards for completion are the same. Folks have a natural habit of talking big, just look at "wildstar".

Overland quest content is for new players and story, that's it. Players should not be rewarded for staying in overland, its good that it feels dull after you mastered it... its time to grow up as a player and move to more challenging content. Now one silly counter arguement is that other players "suck" in harder content and the answer is yes! That part of the process of improvement is creating group to play with and lifting up your fellow gamers to take on content that you can not do alone... Like vet trials.

I often ponder the motivations those asking for vet content overland. In most cases they just want rewards from harder content in the easier content zones. But I don't feel this is the true deep motivations. I wonder if these players simply fear their inability to play harder group content, and instead of self improvement in game play and social interactions, they hide back in the cave of solo play, away from their fellow gamers.

But to these folks I say, Move Forward and reach out. True difficult veteran content is with in your reach if you just make some friends and band together. Form trial guilds, pvp guilds, hell even RP guilds, and finally see the other half of the game, other people! and you wont want to hide in overland content anymore.

SilverBride · April 2021

@orion_1981usub17_ESO

Very well said.

Ippokrates · April 2021

In many cases crucial PvE campaings taking places in Solo instances anyway, so add an option to choose vet difficullty (like an Undaunted Scrolls), replace blue rewards with purple & purple with gold, and we are good to go

Abelon · April 2021

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

Overland quest content is for new players and story, that's it. Players should not be rewarded for staying in overland, its good that it feels dull after you mastered it... its time to grow up as a player and move to more challenging content. Now one silly counter arguement is that other players "suck" in harder content and the answer is yes! That part of the process of improvement is creating group to play with and lifting up your fellow gamers to take on content that you can not do alone... Like vet trials.

I often ponder the motivations those asking for vet content overland. In most cases they just want rewards from harder content in the easier content zones. But I don't feel this is the true deep motivations. I wonder if these players simply fear their inability to play harder group content, and instead of self improvement in game play and social interactions, they hide back in the cave of solo play, away from their fellow gamers.

But to these folks I say, Move Forward and reach out. True difficult veteran content is with in your reach if you just make some friends and band together. Form trial guilds, pvp guilds, hell even RP guilds, and finally see the other half of the game, other people! and you wont want to hide in overland content anymore.

If people would actually read the comments then they would see that most of the players asking for harder overland are new players and people who play for the story. That's exactly why we want harder content. Because we want more fun while playing the content we enjoy. Which is story content...

The rest of your comment might as well be used towards people who are against veteran overland. "It is time to grow as a player and take on harder overland content," "move forward and reach out," "don't fear your inability to play harder content," "form guilds or groups to take on harder overland content," and so on. That's exactly the point. This goes both ways.

I could also say that with your comment you are trying to force a certain playstyle on us, the endgame group content playstyle specifically. Which is... exactly what people arguing against harder overland are afraid of. Except we are not trying to force anything on anyone, because we agree that optional vet overland would be the way. But you do not.

It is so strange to hear that people are "hiding in overland content." It's most of the game... We are not hiding in it. We are playing it, as intended. We pay for more overland content again and again in the form of chapters. I understand that some people dislike overland and from that perspective it would be hard to understand that some people actually want to mostly play overland. But that's just how it is. And ESO is very accommodating towards that playstyle, it is an mmo with a story focus.

SilverBride · April 2021

Abelon wrote: »

If people would actually read the comments then they would see that most of the players asking for harder overland are new players and people who play for the story.

I find the opposite to be true. Many of those asking for veteran overland have mentioned playing before One Tamriel.

Regardless, it is a very bad idea to split the world in two. Besides all the reasons previously mentioned, it would completely disrupt the mix of new and seasoned players in the zones, which is vital.

orion_1981usub17_ESO · April 2021

@SilverBride

I come from the Everquest era, where you couldn't leave the starter zone without having a small group and when you died, you had to have a friend either come and res you or go and get your body. The entire game was forming groups and as a dark elf cleric I had one role, healing the tank. It was so new and exciting, but I cant imagine going back to it because I know its nostalgia glasses effecting my view. That's the same thing for folks wishing to get harder overland, they are seeing nostalgia glasses for the early days they played. Safe easy bosses that only have a hard attack or two and wont be tough no matter the hitpoints added. This is the wrong mindset and leads to player stagnation.

There are very difficult bosses, and I've only done a couple vets on hard mode. There is very difficult content in the game but it requires a team, and that is where these folks don't want to go. They don't want to share themselves with others for fear they might fail and look bad. But all great players have been there, we died and wiped and laughed at each others mistakes, and I feel sad that folks aren't willing to have that interpersonal experiences.

If they add more rewards to overland content, the developers would be encouraging the stagnation of player growth and skill.

SilverBride · April 2021

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

@SilverBride

I come from the Everquest era, where you couldn't leave the starter zone without having a small group and when you died, you had to have a friend either come and res you or go and get your body. The entire game was forming groups and as a dark elf cleric I had one role, healing the tank. It was so new and exciting, but I cant imagine going back to it because I know its nostalgia glasses effecting my view. That's the same thing for folks wishing to get harder overland, they are seeing nostalgia glasses for the early days they played. Safe easy bosses that only have a hard attack or two and wont be tough no matter the hitpoints added. This is the wrong mindset and leads to player stagnation.

There are very difficult bosses, and I've only done a couple vets on hard mode. There is very difficult content in the game but it requires a team, and that is where these folks don't want to go. They don't want to share themselves with others for fear they might fail and look bad. But all great players have been there, we died and wiped and laughed at each others mistakes, and I feel sad that folks aren't willing to have that interpersonal experiences.

If they add more rewards to overland content, the developers would be encouraging the stagnation of player growth and skill.

I don't play end game content. I used to in games I played previously, but have come to a point that all I want is to relax and have fun. This is why I haven't developed my characters for end game.

What I don't understand is why a player would prepare themselves for something then not participate in it. But rather want the base game and story to adapt to them.

ParaViking · April 2021

There is only a few ways to pull this off and lets face it. Odds are very against us having it done. So we are really talking hypothetically. and we are only talking about overland content. Not Normal or Vet Dungeons.

Overland has to be easy enough for new players to play, but vet players get largely left out of the content because it is too easy and creates no challenge.

1. Nerfing ourselves within the Champion System as I mentioned earlier. This would get complicated and cumbersome though when trying to jump back into real end game.
2. Maybe a new tree in the Champion System with all the buff in it and nerf ourselves through it. Maybe a Molag Bal Tree and Champion Bar would be a solution.
3. Create come sort of toggle and phased instance for Veterans, but could get lonely for some.

I would welcome any type of change that would make general overland content harder... I am pretty easy going... I really just gimp myself in a variety of other ways through passives, gear, and no investment in the Champion System. The overland content is still really easy though to be of any challenge.

There is no real right or wrong way to play the game for me anymore. It is just entertainment. The endgame content is just too competitive to be fun anymore, but would not suggest changing it. I really just jump on to tool around for a short while and decompress, and overland is where I would do it. It is too easy and really a bore with no challenge though. Although I do see a great deal of value in the stories and would love to do them if it were a challenging.

I have experienced the entire game. I do not play to make friends. I am just too busy although people I have interacted with over the years are generally nice people. No complaints, but I am a loaner in the game and really just use it to pass some time.

I would love to get back into it, but the thought of diving back into the end game power race is a real turn off for me. I will pass on it for now...

Just a perspective of a ESO burn out...

CP5 · April 2021

So for those who don't seem to grasp the arguments for more engaging overland let me put it out as simply as I can.

Experienced players want to do stuff like main quest lines, but find the absence of any challenge or engagement reduces every quest to nothing more than dialogue interrupted buy enemies who are so dull and weak that they may well be replaced by cardboard cutouts.

Newer players get it in their head that overland is all the game has to offer and either leave from boredom or become so complacent that once the game ask anything of them (say, doing normal dungeons) it is to much and leads to frustration and causes tension between the "pro players" and the average ones. If I say, try to help a new player whose struggling by telling them how to do something like bash, or introduce the complex subject of using food and potions I get called out for trying to hard and sapping the fun out of the game for them.

Both of these groups deserve better, and both can be accomplished in the same way, by providing an overland with enemies who fight with some semblance of strategy would both engage experienced players as well as reinforce the skills the tutorial teaches new players because, after one tamriel, every zone is a starter zone. The thing I as an experience player am looking for isn't "super amazing rewards", a worthwhile fight I remember years after is the reward, and if newer players have a better way of learning the game than getting lucky and having someone teach them (because overland would actually do that) then all the better.

orion_1981usub17_ESO · April 2021

@Abelon

The comment right above your post speaks greater volumes than your speech, getting "harder" overland content is not about more fun but getting gold items where they are otherwise not given. Oh I'd love to complete fighter quest and get gold rings for killing deshia too.

They can add new zones with new difficulty, and then they're empty because the player base refuse to play in them. Simply adding resistance or HP will not make overland bosses any more mechanically difficult. You would have to change the mechanics available for them, ZOS does do this with each new dungeon added or new harder world bosses in overland content and then it becomes harder to find players to help you with these world bosses because it easier to farm the old ones.

How many times do we see the same threads over and over again and two of these constant threads is difficult over land and removing vet dlc dungeons from random queues... because they're too difficult for pugs. If you take both threads at face value there is a disconnect between the two of them, a deception if you'd call it that.

The truth is that some folks want rewards they aren't willing to earn and some folks are just blowing hot air because they're not hanging around the harder content that was put out. Many folks speak and have no real clue about what they're saying because they don't utilize the avenues that meet their demands already.

Folks, ask yourselves, why are you afraid of group content? Are you shy? Fearful of commitment? Afraid of judgement? Friends will accept you. I will accept you.

Sanguinor2 · April 2021

Awful lot of asumptions here.
Personally I stopped doing quests and overland simply because its so mindnumbingly boring. It takes the quest npcs longer to tell me how dangerous this new enemy is than it takes me to kill him. Every normal overland mob dies to one ability+weave and even if I feel generous and let the mob do something the only way I would ever be in any danger is if I left to make dinner. Im partial to a complete vet overland, I wouldnt mind it but I would be very happy with having an option for harder quest bosses alone and the regular overland wouldnt need to be touched.
Oh and I also cleared every vet hardmode content in the game most trifectas included but sure tell me more how Im afraid of doing group content and that that is the reason for me wanting harder quest bosses/overland content.

orion_1981usub17_ESO · April 2021

If you "beaten" the game... then lets be real honest and assume your not gonna be happy with overland veteran content either because there are mechanical limitations to what they can implement on the openside of the server. They cant doo much more than add HP and resistance and anything more will not be economically worth while to cater to such a small minority of players.

CP5 · April 2021

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

@Abelon

The comment right above your post speaks greater volumes than your speech, getting "harder" overland content is not about more fun but getting gold items where they are otherwise not given. Oh I'd love to complete fighter quest and get gold rings for killing deshia too.

They can add new zones with new difficulty, and then they're empty because the player base refuse to play in them. Simply adding resistance or HP will not make overland bosses any more mechanically difficult. You would have to change the mechanics available for them, ZOS does do this with each new dungeon added or new harder world bosses in overland content and then it becomes harder to find players to help you with these world bosses because it easier to farm the old ones.

How many times do we see the same threads over and over again and two of these constant threads is difficult over land and removing vet dlc dungeons from random queues... because they're too difficult for pugs. If you take both threads at face value there is a disconnect between the two of them, a deception if you'd call it that.

The truth is that some folks want rewards they aren't willing to earn and some folks are just blowing hot air because they're not hanging around the harder content that was put out. Many folks speak and have no real clue about what they're saying because they don't utilize the avenues that meet their demands already.

Folks, ask yourselves, why are you afraid of group content? Are you shy? Fearful of commitment? Afraid of judgement? Friends will accept you. I will accept you.

I'm actively in two trial groups progressing through vKA HM and vSS HM, clear vet dungeons casually, having more or less gotten board with achievement hunting but just earlier today did vBD HM on all bosses save for the secret final boss, and I do all of that regularly without being all that amazing of a DPS. I never parse on dummies since I find it mind numbing, but I know how to play and what to prioritize to get fights done. Me asking for overland being more engaging is me wanting to actually enjoy the vast majority of the game, right now all it serves is to put me asleep when I know the only thing saving the final boss from me is 7 story quest that devolve into nothing more than pushing through groups of enemies.

And to call out your comment about more challenging overland vs wanting to remove dlc dungeons from the queue. If overland made players think and practice how to play beyond just light attacking, they would be better able to learn what specific fights require of them. But if overland is a joke because every zone is so safe, then doing direfrost is horrid since if someone doesn't know how to press the block and light attack keys in order to cc break, you're better off leaving them dead. No fun for anyone there, and clearly that's where the connection lies. Enemies that make people engage their brain and think better prepares players for situations where they need to think.

So, ask yourself, as someone who is confident doing group and solo content, who cares nothing for the item rewards, who is asking for quest with threats worth my time, who wants an overland that gives new players a place to build up confidence to do anything beyond questing, why is it adding an option is something you are so hostile toward?

SilverBride · April 2021

ParaViking wrote: »

Overland has to be easy enough for new players to play, but vet players get largely left out of the content because it is too easy and creates no challenge.

Overland isn't supposed to create a challenge. It tells a story. No one is left out of this content... they choose for themselves whether or not to participate. You can't go to McD's and complain that their food isn't 5 star and demand they add prime rib and lobster to their menu because you don't want to get dressed up and pay what it costs at a nice restaurant.

ParaViking wrote: »

Just a perspective of a ESO burn out...

That is probably accurate for many. It's not that overland isn't hard enough or rewarding enough etc.. Some players are just burned out from doing the same stories multiple times on multiple alts. Making it harder won't make it any more new or fresh.

orion_1981usub17_ESO · April 2021

@CP5

because I can detect duplicity in the arguments of others and understand the limitation of the mechanics of the game. I ask how many would play vet overland content for the same reward and watch the "crowd" evaporate. I ask what exactly makes would make overland bosses difficult that can be actually mechanically implemented and crickets. The content and the rewards people are asking for are already in existence behind instanced encounters. Greater rewards and greater difficulty. There is a natural progression from the difficulty of overland (which was railroaded content long ago) to dungeons, to vet dungeons to trial to vet trails. Going backwards to easier content and wishing it was more difficult is just that... WISHFUL THINKING. And I look occasionally at the harder zone boss and see if anyone wants the challenge and I a resounding.... NO!

This thread isn't new, it pops up over and over again and it was silly then and its silly now and it will be silly tomorrow! If you mastered overland content, no amount of HP or resistance will ever make it challenging again, and maybe you have to hit them with an extra attack or two but you sure as hell don't deserve a better reward for just that. Thread solved... again.

Stevie6 · April 2021

I copied my comment from another post and this might be an option:

Warlord: "What is best in life?" Conan: "To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women."

Zos might want to look at the first part of this quote, "To crush your enemies". This mmo has gotten off track. DPS, CMX, and the CP trees should be removed. Players will then at that point have options thru different modes of play.

ZOS could look at damage, heals, etc from a completely different perspective and it could be very challenging. Players will no longer be able to see the damage and heals that skills do. It could be totally random generated. The challenge would be the "not knowing" part. Put a bit of excitement back into the game. As a casual player, I don't want to see numbers. I just want to kill stuff and have fun.

The Devs can determine the amount of damage and heals that players do thru their own " in house" player dps numbers not available to joe public and make adjustments accordingly. Keep players on their toes. Average joe player might hit a target at 40k of damage and one shot something or just to a base of 10k damage....all random. The mode of difficulty will be available either at login or when entering a dungeon. A player can choose how hard they want it and not via dps checks. Something more devious. The dungeon environment will be the enemy. Walls fall on you, floors open up and you fall to your death, a monster might sound an alarm deep within the dungeon and summon some thing really bad. All different, all random. Even overland.

Everything as it is, is not really random. Leet players will blow thru and counter everything. Where's the challenge? Why force players into a narrow road map of dps checks when it should be totally random encounters. I consider fun as dodge rolling, jumping, blocking, saving your own ass or others from certain death. That's fun. Devs remove the numbers game. No more 5600 damage over 7 seconds blah blah blah. Make it random. That will put everyone on an even playing field. You want harder. Just select a harder environmental mode. The boss or rather all targets should be killed via random numbers not known to the player. You will just see the damage bar go down over time.

Armor and weapon sets will factor into your total gaming experience with different abilities. They might synergize with a skill for a random outcome or maybe a specific outcome. Skills in general should synergize with each other or with other classes to come up with different affects. Random is the key.

The rewards would be the same for everybody not matter if a previously hard mode dungeon was only for leets, it could be reset for easy mode...lack of environmental hazards. Then later, players can choose harder dungeon environmental mode to play in to get titles, etc. At least everyone will be able to enter and play not knowing what the heck to expect.

You want hard, that would be hard and an even playing field. No more CP, DPS numbers, CMX...just guts.

CP5 · April 2021

It's going to keep popping up because people want to do questing and overland content and not be bored stiff because of it. As is plainly clear from the 'advanced' content in this game (naming anything that isn't overland) you can have mobs with more nuanced interactions with the player than what overland offers.

In overland you have.

Healers who only channel a single target heal once in a blue moon then sit around maybe light attacking.
Guys with one 1h weapon who do nothing but walk backward then take a year to throw a knife
Tanks which yeet themselves into the sky only to return once all of their allies are dead
Fire mages whose magical powers amount to a tiny bowling ball fire wave or 2 dinner plate sized aoes
And then the amazing 'melee guy throws oil flask' followed by 'archer shoots flaming arrow at oil' which despite the build-up does nothing more than half of what the laughable fire mages do

But despite this as is clear by the oil flask combo, ZOS is more than able to do things, like have healer mobs do things like buff allies, tanks do things like chain pull players and shield their allies, have enemies synergize with each other so it feels like the things you are fighting are actually trying to stay alive. Bosses are even worse than this normally since they are often effectively alone and are nothing but bigger enemies with a small enough health pool that they may as well not exist. Wrothgar delve bosses have 65k health btw incase anyone was interested.

So, issue not solved and ZOS has the tools to fix it. All they need to do is, add a new option to access the more challenging instance, give mobs in this instance an improved AI that actually puts up a fight with slight stat buffs to help enhance their new abilities, and allow people who don't want to fall asleep during a fight to go to this place freely to actually enjoy the vast majority of the games content.

It would help a whole lot if enemies didn't literally spend 80% of the fight either standing still doing nothing or channeling an ability that is doing nothing (look at imps channeling microscopic aoes that you're a mile away from). And please, aside from the default 'from blue to purple' gear drop that is pretty standard everywhere for doing content on vet (which purple gear is very cheap for people who do vet content as is) what extra rewards am I trying to entitle myself to other than a story with a satisfying conclusion?