Casual/disabled player input

desndb

Where is it?

I see ALL these changes coming to the PTS (which WILL make it to live) and all I feel is utter dispair. It seems to me that EVERY update the gap gets wider, regardless of the Devs intention. Inevitably the floor and the ceiling grow farther apart because NO ONE is fighting for or paying attention to those of us who are not elite or even great. We are your average, run of the mill players who are just looking for an escape from reality for a small amount of time whenever we are able.

It feels like we are relegated to normal everything: dungeons, trials, arenas, etc.
If we have ZERO hope of passing the hard content then why should we continue to play?
(Please DO NOT just tell me to "git gud", disabilities suck)

I went so far as to put together my own progression group. We studied the videos, we changed our gear, we practiced our rotations. We did everything we could have to get through the content... With ZERO success.

Why is there no leeway on the vet content for the casual players? Why is it perfect or nothing?
This is especially maddening for a housing enthusiast, when I cannot get the achievement items I want for my homes (of which I own almost ALL of). Also for someone who wants very much to have AS MANY achievements as I can get, but that's another story.

Can we stop trying to balance PVE & PVP! Please!? Seperate them! For the love of all that is holy, it's only making things worse!
And quit making all vet content SO dang different from normal! Vet shouldn't mean 100 times harder plus 15 new mechanics to learn; instead there should either be less of a disparity in difficulty or a middle ground somewhere to help the transition.

Also, FIX THE BUGS!
It does absolutely ZERO good to learn mechanics if they are just going to break or bug or fail. How is it encouraging to fail ANYTHING through ZERO fault of your own?

I don't really need replies, I am essentially just venting here. I am tired of loosing friends to bugs. I am tired of feeling like this game has just become "do dailies if you can and hope they aren't bugged, but also you'll never complete 'THAT', so HAHA"!

I just hope that someone, somewhere is paying attention... Because if you aren't, this game will loose a lot of players very quickly (CP 2.0 already saw too many people give up, and the PTS doesn't look promising).

*That was a lot of random ranting and I apologize*

Supertonicbaker

I can sympathize with the frustration. I can never do group content, ever, as I’m essentially deaf and mute. I’m sure that I’d be kicked instantly pugging and no militarily precise end game team would want someone tagging along that is incommunicado. Plus, console player and it takes me about 30 minutes to respond with types, as it’s taking me right now just to post this. This game is the only one I dared to solo dungeons just so I can see what’s inside. Curiosity and all that. Although I know there’s a lot I’ll never be able to see and bosses to fight. Thought it’d be cool if there were solo versions of dungeons, without any serious loot drops of course, just so I can get on in there.

But lets be serious, that’d probably be a huge undertaking with servers and extra development that zos probably can’t do. Ahh well. My beggar can’t be a chooser.

deleted008293

I always advocated against the gap between normal and veteran content, reason for which i was eaten alive by the end game toxic scene.

I would also sustain the idea of towering difficulty level... which a dd layers of difficulty up towards a top elite level. And to make content fair for everyone, i think normal content should also offer skins and even pets and mounts but with sole difference the skin tone is less powerful. And the other skin should be obtained somewhere along the way and not by doing veteran hard mode content such as vas2 or vcr3 where often people tend to became extremely toxic and selective and end up proffiting by selling carries to people less fortunate.

Indigogo

OP, I feel you. After a loooooot of hours in this game, cp1400+, I look at the content and see a mountain I can't get over. And it's getting higher by the minute.
Running norm maelstrom feels like I'm in the kiddy pool with floaties on, but on vet it turns into an ocean filled with slaughterfish. I never get the chance to really progress, just too much happening at once and *dead*.

Funnily enough my endgame became pvp. There are so many ways to approach it, that I can use all my strengths to become reasonably successful.

preevious

While I do understand and sympathize with your frustration, and while I'm sorry for all our disabled fellow players out there, I can't see any good solution for that problem.

A game HAS to have very hard content. Content that will not (and should not be) done by everyone.

If everything was doable by everyone, no matter the skill, competent players would get bored and leave.
If everything was only doable by our elite overlords, casual players would get discouraged and leave.

The mix between normal and veteran is thus a good idea. Maybe an intermediate difficulty, between normal and veteran, would be an option, but I don't see the dev trying to balance it.

As for the housing problem .. if the achievement unlocked furniture was sellable in guild store, it would solve many issues.

Thoragaal

desndb wrote: »

Where is it?

I see ALL these changes coming to the PTS (which WILL make it to live) and all I feel is utter dispair. It seems to me that EVERY update the gap gets wider, regardless of the Devs intention.

[...]

I just hope that someone, somewhere is paying attention... Because if you aren't, this game will loose a lot of players very quickly (CP 2.0 already saw too many people give up, and the PTS doesn't look promising).

*That was a lot of random ranting and I apologize*

What changes/updates exactly on the PTS are you talking about?

deleted008293

I do not want to be rude but at this moment the difference between normal and veteran content is just too much for some of us! For over 2 years I am struggling to clear vCR+3 and every single time we are encountering problems of all nature. At this point I feel nothing but trolled, bullied and sabotaged as not just once I got pushed out from some raid groups right before a major achievement, such as a vCR3 clear or GH clear. After which players from such teams bragged into my face. Reasons are multiple...

I do not agree that some content have to be locked through doing hard mode content only. Not everyone is capable to progress and clear such content. Because of this sole reason end game scene is very toxic towards players less experienced. They brag off causing us drama or go as far as trying to profit by selling us skins and carries at exorbitant prices.

vAS offer us the skin only after clearing +2
vCR offer us the skin only after clearing +3
vSS offer us the skin only in veteran.
However people who completed Goodslayer achievement obtain a mount, something that is next to impossible to obtain even after months of progressing.
vSS HM also offer us some furniture items which a role player simply cannot even dream to obtain.
vKA also offer us a skin and a boat furniture item by completing it Veteran difficulty.
... I could continue with dungeons too and so on

In my opinion we should have 3 skin tones. One for normal, One for veteran and one for Hardmode.
Also Mounts should not be locked by doing trifectas...

Other than that I am a player who always love additional mechanics introduced mostly by hard modes. However I am unable to join a group that is progressing veteran hard mode content because of various reasons. One of which is that I preffer not to talk during a raid, It cause me discomfort because of personal and health reasons. Often people made bad remarks towards me for not communicating properly over voice or at all. And not just towards me but other players with problems.

I believe we should have additional difficulties in between normal and veteran... and each of them with their own hard modes. Right now for example you are unable to go to nSS hard mode for example.
Personally I feel that the game does not offer me any major achievements because I cannot access certain veteran content and especially hard mode content.

I am totally against what happened lately with the ballancing of content and I am strictly reffering to the DPS race.
DPS need to be capped and reduced. Its not only unfair but personally it goes as far to the point of EXPLOITTING a game mechanic because some raid groups manage to get their dps so high that they are totally avoiding playing mechanics. Aka burning down bosses. This is a huge problem because it offer other people less experienced to leech and clear content normaly shouldn't. It also mock people who are trying hard to play mechanics and so on.

I do not consider that a trial such as vcr3 should be completed by totally avoiding playing ANY portals.
I also do not consider that a trial such vas2 should be completed by ignoring the mini bosses mechanics at all. Simply because you burn the boss that fast the mini bosses will not even have time to enrage.
I also do not consider it fair that vHOF first boss is getting nuked instead of people playing through the mechanics of killing spheres. 4th boss also get burned down by keeping all 3 bosses together.
I also do not consider it is fair that vmol can be nuked on 3rd platform ignoring the backyard mechanic.
Those are just few examples which cause problems and need to be ballanced accordingly.

I am also against the use of addons for the following reasons. Console players simply do not have access to any. And PC players get things too easy and they count so much on those addons that they no longer focus on actaully be aware of mechanics.

The only sollution in this case is that community should be less toxic because not everyone was fortunate enough for a good and healthy life. If you see someone struggling just give him chances and stop isolating, pushing out, or trash talking that player, causing him or her drama.

pelle412

nordmarian wrote: »

I do not consider that a trial such as vcr3 should be completed by totally avoiding playing ANY portals.
I also do not consider that a trial such vas2 should be completed by ignoring the mini bosses mechanics at all. Simply because you burn the boss that fast the mini bosses will not even have time to enrage.
I also do not consider it fair that vHOF first boss is getting nuked instead of people playing through the mechanics of killing spheres. 4th boss also get burned down by keeping all 3 bosses together.
I also do not consider it is fair that vmol can be nuked on 3rd platform ignoring the backyard mechanic.
Those are just few examples which cause problems and need to be ballanced accordingly.

Most of the things you mention here (with exception of vHoF 1st boss) is quite rare and a vast majority of groups cannot do those fights the way you described. Having said that, the "balancing" in this game has lead to a dramatic increase in damage, enabling the fights to be completed that way. The damage boost has affected pretty much everyone, and not too long ago I attempted to teach a group of players new to vHoF how to do the mechanics on the first boss, but it's impossible as damage is too high and too many spheres spawn. The only way to do it realistically was to go for a straight burn.

With regards to trial difficulty and rewards, it is appropriate to have skin/mounts/furnishing rewards tied to difficult achievements. Most modern MMOs do.

zvavi

desndb wrote: »

Where is it?

Also, FIX THE BUGS!
It does absolutely ZERO good to learn mechanics if they are just going to break or bug or fail. How is it encouraging to fail ANYTHING through ZERO fault of your own?

this. so much this. I really feel like the bugs are the things that make it the most difficult part. other than that, excluding hm trials, i do feel like it is possible to pass most content efficiently, even for not as strong players.

Fennwitty

Supertonicbaker wrote: »

I can sympathize with the frustration. I can never do group content, ever, as I’m essentially deaf and mute. I’m sure that I’d be kicked instantly pugging and no militarily precise end game team would want someone tagging along that is incommunicado. Plus, console player and it takes me about 30 minutes to respond with types, as it’s taking me right now just to post this. This game is the only one I dared to solo dungeons just so I can see what’s inside. Curiosity and all that. Although I know there’s a lot I’ll never be able to see and bosses to fight. Thought it’d be cool if there were solo versions of dungeons, without any serious loot drops of course, just so I can get on in there.

But lets be serious, that’d probably be a huge undertaking with servers and extra development that zos probably can’t do. Ahh well. My beggar can’t be a chooser.

You're on console with built in voice coms, but on PC it's the norm for keyboard only communication. And in normal dungeons, not much is necessary.

There are probably guilds on your platform that would welcome you. I know on PC there's many guilds that gladly accept enthusiastic members even differently-abled.

nukk3r

I understand your frustration but there's no solution to this. If vet content gets easier, vet players will ask for harder content (they already do). If ZOS add new levels of difficulty, casual players will still feel the need to do the hardest. This will never end.

Villanelf

To partially overcome the chat issue, I’d welcome the ability to hotkey some (customisable) preset responses.

Stevie6

I’m in the same boat as the rest of you are in. I gave up and mainly solo normal dungeons. Dps doesn’t exist for me. It’s basically heavy attack which puts out crappy dps. The best setup was pre Morrowind...the petsorc. It had both damage and big shields. Once the devs killed it for people like us, it basically killed a play style for disabled players. I still play a petsorc with one or two keys to press, but not real damage.

Rotation, LA, git gud, and practice doesn’t exist for me and never will. The devs could look at your player stats and assign a buff / debuff for your account to help but they won’t. So basically you are paying to play basic playable overland content and nothing else. Other players will tell you the same thing. There is content for you just not harder content and you should be happy. It sucks but that’s the reality.

Inaya

I will preface this with I do not do the most difficult content anymore. I used to, but I am no longer quick enough nor do I have the time to min/max/grind for gear to to be able to be beneficial to a progression group. I've been a member and raid leader of a few very successful progression guilds in several games. So I think I have perspective from both sides.

That being said....Not everything is for everybody. I think there should be some things that are only available to players completing the most difficult content. A game should offer things to all levels of play which means that some things will always be "out of reach" to someone. It's the nature of everything, even life if you think about it.

Progression guilds MUST have requirements for players on their teams. The content is designed with specific dps, healing and tanking requirements as well as a high degree of situational awareness to perform mechanics and to communicate with the team verbally when required. Anyone who for whatever reason cannot fulfill these requirements holds the rest of the team back. A progression guild is designed to PROGRESS and the members of the team are all of that mindset.

I do agree that there should not be degrading comments or insults to players not meeting the requirements. Some people are just mean, but sometimes I think it is caused by players who feel left out demanding to be included despite the fact that their lack of ability effects the team negatively.

The very fact that the content cannot be completed by a team of players not meeting progression requirements should prove that their presence on a progression team is in fact negatively impacting others.

ESO offers so many things to do and to focus so intensely on the few things you can't do to me is counterproductive.

Just my thoughts....

Edited because I hate typos

Sylvermynx

I no longer do group content of any kind, nor pvp. I started MMOs in 2006 with WoW which I played (including on a pvp server in a friend's guild) until 2013, and then RIFT from 2013-2016. I was in my late 50s through late 60s, and while my reflexes were already slowing down, those games did not require the "twitch" reflexes for combat that this one does, so I just didn't really notice until I got to ESO three years back that - wow, there's some things here I just can't do!

Even after three years here, and with somewhat better satellite internet, I'm not really interested in doing group stuff - and I won't ever bother with pvp again. But there's still a lot I find fun, and boy is this cheap entertainment (yes I sub two accounts).

Actually, at this point I think back to raids in the other games two or three nights a week and shudder. I'm very well out of all that!

Of course, YMMV - if you truly want to do the harder content, and there's just no way for that to happen, well, that's certainly disappointing for you.

jssriot

Inaya wrote: »

I will preface this with I do not do the most difficult content anymore. I used to, but I am no longer quick enough nor do I have the time to min/max/grind for gear to to be able to be beneficial to a progression group. I've been a member and raid leader of a few very successful progression guilds in several games. So I think I have perspective from both sides.

My following criticism is said with the generous presumption that you mean well.

Progression guilds MUST have requirements for players on their teams.

Yes, but as someone who's done vet content under 3 different vet systems and with several different guilds, my experience is there are a lot of people who do not understand what reasonable requirements for this content is and fall into very elitist mindsets that justify way too much gatekeeping. And let me be clear about what I mean by gatekeeping: it is the act of using one's pwn access and status to control who and who does not get to have the same access and status. It is not about reasonable req's. It's about people who feel the need to be powerful over others. I have never been in a trial/dungeon guild where this wasn't happening among the officers and raid leaders. And if you want to say that this is all done to be reasonable, I have to call you on that. Because gamers are humans, and there is nothing in ESO that moderates the level of control these people have over other people's access to make sure they aren't just being gatekeeping snobs, so inevitably it happens.

The content is designed with specific dps, healing and tanking requirements as well as a high degree of situational awareness to perform mechanics and to communicate with the team verbally when required. Anyone who for whatever reason cannot fulfill these requirements holds the rest of the team back. A progression guild is designed to PROGRESS and the members of the team are all of that mindset.

This sounds all so reasonable, doesn't it? However, if I had a dollar for every time I was in a vet raid when there was one or two players who were goofing around and not taking it seriously, or had to listen to other players talk about a run they did with that sort of person--you know, that person that always gets into vet runs because they're buddies with someone or other people find them entertaining, but screws up all the time and the group has to finish the content despite that person, and no one actually admits that's what happening (and if you claim you never experienced this, I won't believe you). I mean, really, give me a break.

Here's the thing: despite all the pretense of these players being very serious about these runs, the actual culture among end game content players, as I have continually experience to be, is a total high school scene. Players in these ranks are immature, petty, vindictive, and react to new players from outside their cliques with suspicion and condescension, going out of the way to make a new player jump through social hoops that have nothing to do with gear or skill or knowledge of the game to prove they "deserve" to be there. I literally went through this last night with a group I'm new to where they were not subtly testing me, as the new person, to see if I knew their elite player culture, including trying to trigger me by making flippant jabs about the gear I was using (which was gear considered BiS by some) or my CP (not because I'm low CP, but because I was higher CP than most of the group). It felt like hazing and it was. And this was an end-game group that calls themselves "friendly" and "chill." If I hadn't gone into this new group knowing I would likely have to deal with this sort of thing, I would have probably left group halfway through the run, rather than just not respond to anything in voice chat. But seriously, the absolute worst PVP'ers I've played with weren't this passive-aggressive and two-faced, and no one shoudl have to deal wit that just to get gear or an achieve.

This is what a lot of people aren't talking about when they rush to defend why the end-game content culture is so toxic and elitist. Sometimes I think people are being knowingly disingenuous about it because as a participant in it, they don't want to look complicit. But other times people are just so used to it that they haven't really recognized it for what it is and/or are simply OK with it, because...how did you phrase it? "It's the nature of everything, even life if you think about it." Yeah, if only us human being had big brains and a lot of creativity to figure out ways to help each other more and make sure we can include more diversity of people in our leisure activities rather than slam the door in other people's faces because we can. Pity that. Anyhow, I am never amused by anyone's rationalization and coded talk that hides what ESO end-game culture is really like.

Lastly, I just want to say to my fellow disabled players: you know your own limitations better than anyone. Don't let other people tell you want your limitations are and certainly don't listen to them when they tell you to just accept it when you know you're being denied access, because that's how ableism wins.

blktauna

jssriot wrote: »

This sounds all so reasonable, doesn't it? However, if I had a dollar for every time I was in a vet raid when there was one or two players who were goofing around and not taking it seriously, or had to listen to other players talk about a run they did with that sort of person--you know, that person that always gets into vet runs because they're buddies with someone or other people find them entertaining, but screws up all the time and the group has to finish the content despite that person, and no one actually admits that's what happening (and if you claim you never experienced this, I won't believe you). I mean, really, give me a break.

Here's the thing: despite all the pretense of these players being very serious about these runs, the actual culture among end game content players, as I have continually experience to be, is a total high school scene. Players in these ranks are immature, petty, vindictive, and react to new players from outside their cliques with suspicion and condescension, going out of the way to make a new player jump through social hoops that have nothing to do with gear or skill or knowledge of the game to prove they "deserve" to be there. I literally went through this last night with a group I'm new to where they were not subtly testing me, as the new person, to see if I knew their elite player culture, including trying to trigger me by making flippant jabs about the gear I was using (which was gear considered BiS by some) or my CP (not because I'm low CP, but because I was higher CP than most of the group). It felt like hazing and it was. And this was an end-game group that calls themselves "friendly" and "chill." If I hadn't gone into this new group knowing I would likely have to deal with this sort of thing, I would have probably left group halfway through the run, rather than just not respond to anything in voice chat. But seriously, the absolute worst PVP'ers I've played with weren't this passive-aggressive and two-faced, and no one shoudl have to deal wit that just to get gear or an achieve.

This is what a lot of people aren't talking about when they rush to defend why the end-game content culture is so toxic and elitist. Sometimes I think people are being knowingly disingenuous about it because as a participant in it, they don't want to look complicit. But other times people are just so used to it that they haven't really recognized it for what it is and/or are simply OK with it, because...how did you phrase it? "It's the nature of everything, even life if you think about it." Yeah, if only us human being had big brains and a lot of creativity to figure out ways to help each other more and make sure we can include more diversity of people in our leisure activities rather than slam the door in other people's faces because we can. Pity that. Anyhow, I am never amused by anyone's rationalization and coded talk that hides what ESO end-game culture is really like.

Lastly, I just want to say to my fellow disabled players: you know your own limitations better than anyone. Don't let other people tell you want your limitations are and certainly don't listen to them when they tell you to just accept it when you know you're being denied access, because that's how ableism wins.

very well said

Tigertron

Fennwitty wrote: »

Supertonicbaker wrote: »

I can sympathize with the frustration. I can never do group content, ever, as I’m essentially deaf and mute. I’m sure that I’d be kicked instantly pugging and no militarily precise end game team would want someone tagging along that is incommunicado. Plus, console player and it takes me about 30 minutes to respond with types, as it’s taking me right now just to post this. This game is the only one I dared to solo dungeons just so I can see what’s inside. Curiosity and all that. Although I know there’s a lot I’ll never be able to see and bosses to fight. Thought it’d be cool if there were solo versions of dungeons, without any serious loot drops of course, just so I can get on in there.

But lets be serious, that’d probably be a huge undertaking with servers and extra development that zos probably can’t do. Ahh well. My beggar can’t be a chooser.

You're on console with built in voice coms, but on PC it's the norm for keyboard only communication. And in normal dungeons, not much is necessary.

There are probably guilds on your platform that would welcome you. I know on PC there's many guilds that gladly accept enthusiastic members even differently-abled.

If you can type “tyfg” after it’s all over that all the communication you need. Or nothing. It very common on pc.

RogueShark

jssriot wrote: »

Inaya wrote: »

I will preface this with I do not do the most difficult content anymore. I used to, but I am no longer quick enough nor do I have the time to min/max/grind for gear to to be able to be beneficial to a progression group. I've been a member and raid leader of a few very successful progression guilds in several games. So I think I have perspective from both sides.

My following criticism is said with the generous presumption that you mean well.

Progression guilds MUST have requirements for players on their teams.

Yes, but as someone who's done vet content under 3 different vet systems and with several different guilds, my experience is there are a lot of people who do not understand what reasonable requirements for this content is and fall into very elitist mindsets that justify way too much gatekeeping. And let me be clear about what I mean by gatekeeping: it is the act of using one's pwn access and status to control who and who does not get to have the same access and status. It is not about reasonable req's. It's about people who feel the need to be powerful over others. I have never been in a trial/dungeon guild where this wasn't happening among the officers and raid leaders. And if you want to say that this is all done to be reasonable, I have to call you on that. Because gamers are humans, and there is nothing in ESO that moderates the level of control these people have over other people's access to make sure they aren't just being gatekeeping snobs, so inevitably it happens.

The content is designed with specific dps, healing and tanking requirements as well as a high degree of situational awareness to perform mechanics and to communicate with the team verbally when required. Anyone who for whatever reason cannot fulfill these requirements holds the rest of the team back. A progression guild is designed to PROGRESS and the members of the team are all of that mindset.

This sounds all so reasonable, doesn't it? However, if I had a dollar for every time I was in a vet raid when there was one or two players who were goofing around and not taking it seriously, or had to listen to other players talk about a run they did with that sort of person--you know, that person that always gets into vet runs because they're buddies with someone or other people find them entertaining, but screws up all the time and the group has to finish the content despite that person, and no one actually admits that's what happening (and if you claim you never experienced this, I won't believe you). I mean, really, give me a break.

Here's the thing: despite all the pretense of these players being very serious about these runs, the actual culture among end game content players, as I have continually experience to be, is a total high school scene. Players in these ranks are immature, petty, vindictive, and react to new players from outside their cliques with suspicion and condescension, going out of the way to make a new player jump through social hoops that have nothing to do with gear or skill or knowledge of the game to prove they "deserve" to be there. I literally went through this last night with a group I'm new to where they were not subtly testing me, as the new person, to see if I knew their elite player culture, including trying to trigger me by making flippant jabs about the gear I was using (which was gear considered BiS by some) or my CP (not because I'm low CP, but because I was higher CP than most of the group). It felt like hazing and it was. And this was an end-game group that calls themselves "friendly" and "chill." If I hadn't gone into this new group knowing I would likely have to deal with this sort of thing, I would have probably left group halfway through the run, rather than just not respond to anything in voice chat. But seriously, the absolute worst PVP'ers I've played with weren't this passive-aggressive and two-faced, and no one shoudl have to deal wit that just to get gear or an achieve.

This is what a lot of people aren't talking about when they rush to defend why the end-game content culture is so toxic and elitist. Sometimes I think people are being knowingly disingenuous about it because as a participant in it, they don't want to look complicit. But other times people are just so used to it that they haven't really recognized it for what it is and/or are simply OK with it, because...how did you phrase it? "It's the nature of everything, even life if you think about it." Yeah, if only us human being had big brains and a lot of creativity to figure out ways to help each other more and make sure we can include more diversity of people in our leisure activities rather than slam the door in other people's faces because we can. Pity that. Anyhow, I am never amused by anyone's rationalization and coded talk that hides what ESO end-game culture is really like.

Lastly, I just want to say to my fellow disabled players: you know your own limitations better than anyone. Don't let other people tell you want your limitations are and certainly don't listen to them when they tell you to just accept it when you know you're being denied access, because that's how ableism wins.

I've experienced some end-game toxicity myself and can say without a DOUBT, my first IR clear was the least amount of fun I had in this game. I saw exactly what you're talking about, experiencing it first hand.

However.

That has been the exception for me rather than the rule.
My first ever experience in vet content, I was pulled in by a Craglorn advertisement into a vMol prog as a healer running twilight remedy. Everyone else helped me gear and learn. It was fun. I made good friends and from there kicked off the rest of my end-game play.
Besides my first IR, every single other trifecta has been completed pleasantly and been a great deal of fun, with varying people/group members. Even as someone who plays a non-meta race, class and spec.

I honestly couldn't say what causes the different experience here. I'm partial about people I do content with, tho: if someone is a jerk I don't prog with them. I learned that after the one bad experience I had. Hasn't stopped me from progging and completing the content/achieves I want without having to deal with the toxicity.

MerguezMan

Dear OP,

I'm not myself disabled, but had to take sedatives for nervous disorder for few years.
I can consistently clear Dark Souls games, and don't consider myself as a casual player.

When it comes to ESO ...

Some of the content is designed for groups, that feels quite normal situation in an MMO, and you can obviously expect communication is needed in groups. If often play in groups with foreign people, and found out communication emotes are quite good way to communicate. I have most common ones assigned to shortcuts on D-pad, and that is often enough.

For dungeons, you should be able to get into normal versions at your own pace, but veteran version requires you to know mechanics, and having access to guides that explain mechanics is not an option. You can check online guides in advance, it ruins the discovery of mechanics, but at least you can get in knowing what you're supposed to do.

For the hardest content, be aware that ESO can sometimes be clunky and laggy - I know exaclty what to do, but sometimes the game just becomes unresponsive and would not display things at all. Difficulty should be fair, and not come from bugs, so I fully support you on the fixing bugs side of things (our character animations failing to display, skills failing to trigger, stuck in combat issues, stun mechanics clunkiness, enemies attacks not consistantly displayed, etc.).

IMO the game is not that hard, its difficulty is mostly unfair bugginess.

wheresbes

I think that some hard content must be present so that players are motivated to get better and guess what? they'll keep playing and playing to get there. Though, I understand the frustration (I AM).

@Supertonicbaker I enjoy doing dungeons I did so many of them and never had the need to communicate in normal ones. Barely in vets. To my experience, voice chat isn't commonly used in PUGs. So, if you really want to experience group content with a group, give it a try! For more serious stuff, you could look for a guild that is disability-friendly as someone else suggested. If you're on XBOX EU feel free to hit me up! though I'm quite relaxed (read: I s##k)

Veles

What exactly achievement items you want for your homes?

It's okay that you have to do something special to get something special. For example, if you want awesome dragon statues in your house, you will have to kill the dragon in hard mode.

And you are unfair when you say that nothing is done for casual players. I'm a hardcore player and I see content nerfing all the time.

In our guilds, we constantly help newcomers. Maybe you can try to socialize more, work on your skill, make new acquaintances and friends?

We have a deaf-mute player in our guild. He was initially so cut off from society that he had to go out of his way to get what he wanted. Since we cannot explain something to him in a voice, we wrote special guides for him, first on the basics of the game, then simple dungeons, then guides for dlc dungeons. As a result, now we pass easily hard modes of dlc trials.

[snip]

[Minor edit for bait.]

ApoAlaia

I personally think that having items exclusive to those who strive for progression is the only actually fair reward in the entire game.

I understand that 'being fair by excluding' may sound like an oxymoron but these are the only items that reward merit. Everything else is RNG.

In fact RNG is 'unfair' by affording everyone, regardless of skill and commitment, the same odds.

Fortunately those rewards are just 'things we want', not 'things we need'. I don't mean this as a 'jab', I don't personally think there is anything wrong with wanting things, after all they are deliberately placed in the game to be coveted, however 'want does not get' has been an integral part of my upbringing and experience in life.

Please bear in mind that this is aimed to the 'casual' perspective of the thread. The 'disability' side of things I feel ill equipped to 'pitch in'.

I do personally think that in a construct where there are no inconvenient laws of physics getting in the way we should strive to remove any and all disability related barriers but I do not know how to do so in a way that would not be exploitable; furthermore I don't even know how much this would matter vs having an environment where barriers no longer exist. This is a very complex topic so I'm going to do the cowardly thing and hightail it.

ResidentContrarian

Disagree.

Most of the vet content has to do with how well you can find the roll and block buttons and pay attention.

Now. where there are hard DPS checks, I can agree that these are problematic. Then again I find hard DPS checks an affront to game design in any game... I don't consider DPS checks to be a "difficult" mechanic as much as it is an artificial wall.

However, I could never agree that having difficult content is bad. But with the changes coming to the game's older sets or class skills to balance certain new sets / mythics causing an overall power loss for players not slotting them, I do agree is a problem.

Wolf_Eye

Why not make it so that everyone can get stuff like Kyne's Aegis boat, that way people with disabilities don't feel worthless for not being able to do Kyne's vet just so they can get nice things. People with disabilities are people, and are equally deserving of nice things; they are NOT "too worthless and don't deserve nice things" all because they have a disability.

And before anyone says "oh, but then people who want a challenge won't feel rewarded for it if they can't show off how special and superior they are with nice skins, furnishings, etc!"

People who truly want a challenge will do challenges regardless if they're given a special reward for it. Otherwise...people who want a challenge just for some special reward don't actually want a challenge, they want to feel superior to other players by showing off items that others cannot get.

FantasticFreddie

desndb wrote: »

Where is it?

I see ALL these changes coming to the PTS (which WILL make it to live) and all I feel is utter dispair. It seems to me that EVERY update the gap gets wider, regardless of the Devs intention. Inevitably the floor and the ceiling grow farther apart because NO ONE is fighting for or paying attention to those of us who are not elite or even great. We are your average, run of the mill players who are just looking for an escape from reality for a small amount of time whenever we are able.

It feels like we are relegated to normal everything: dungeons, trials, arenas, etc.
If we have ZERO hope of passing the hard content then why should we continue to play?
(Please DO NOT just tell me to "git gud", disabilities suck)

I went so far as to put together my own progression group. We studied the videos, we changed our gear, we practiced our rotations. We did everything we could have to get through the content... With ZERO success.

Why is there no leeway on the vet content for the casual players? Why is it perfect or nothing?
This is especially maddening for a housing enthusiast, when I cannot get the achievement items I want for my homes (of which I own almost ALL of). Also for someone who wants very much to have AS MANY achievements as I can get, but that's another story.

Can we stop trying to balance PVE & PVP! Please!? Seperate them! For the love of all that is holy, it's only making things worse!
And quit making all vet content SO dang different from normal! Vet shouldn't mean 100 times harder plus 15 new mechanics to learn; instead there should either be less of a disparity in difficulty or a middle ground somewhere to help the transition.

Also, FIX THE BUGS!
It does absolutely ZERO good to learn mechanics if they are just going to break or bug or fail. How is it encouraging to fail ANYTHING through ZERO fault of your own?

I don't really need replies, I am essentially just venting here. I am tired of loosing friends to bugs. I am tired of feeling like this game has just become "do dailies if you can and hope they aren't bugged, but also you'll never complete 'THAT', so HAHA"!

I just hope that someone, somewhere is paying attention... Because if you aren't, this game will loose a lot of players very quickly (CP 2.0 already saw too many people give up, and the PTS doesn't look promising).

*That was a lot of random ranting and I apologize*

1) come to pc. Not sure how to work around deaf, but the MANY addons that can tell you when to block or dodge will certainly aid you in vet mechanics, and for basic vet content most raid leads would be willing to accommodate you with a head's up. On PC it is pretty common for dps to mute themselves in a run,, but the inability to hear callouts will be problematic at higher levels which brings me to point 2...
2) There absolutely should be a gap between normal and vet, and vet and hardmode. And there should be super neat rewards for vet and hardmode. Could normal have some unique rewards? Yes. Should they be the same as the vet or hardmode rewards? No.

FantasticFreddie

The bugs tho..... can definitely agree with you on the game-breaking bugs.

Inaya

My following criticism is said with the generous presumption that you mean well.

It's not a matter of "meaning well" it is MY experience over 20+ years of progression guilds in numerous games. I am not and did not say that there aren't end game progression guilds with unrealistic requirements but in my experience they are the exception rather than the rule.

Yes, but as someone who's done vet content under 3 different vet systems and with several different guilds, my experience is there are a lot of people who do not understand what reasonable requirements for this content is and fall into very elitist mindsets that justify way too much gatekeeping. And let me be clear about what I mean by gatekeeping: it is the act of using one's pwn access and status to control who and who does not get to have the same access and status. It is not about reasonable req's. It's about people who feel the need to be powerful over others. I have never been in a trial/dungeon guild where this wasn't happening among the officers and raid leaders. And if you want to say that this is all done to be reasonable, I have to call you on that. Because gamers are humans, and there is nothing in ESO that moderates the level of control these people have over other people's access to make sure they aren't just being gatekeeping snobs, so inevitably it happens.

Why would anyone want to be a part of ANY guild with the mindset you describe. I have been an Officer/Raid leader, GM/Raid leader and a normal member of server first guilds not to mention these guys where I was a member.

http://tuufless.blogspot.com/2006/03/limitbreak-vs-absolute-virtue.html

At no time in ANY of these guilds did anyone abuse their "power" or "pwn access" and reqs were developed after a lot of trial and error. In my WOW guilds (both one as GM/Raid Leader and another as Officer/Raid Leader after our progression team had completed the raid we took members from the guild who did NOT meet the requirements through the raid to get their achievements, mounts, etc... I was raid lead of the peeps who didn't make the cut on the main progression team and tho it took us longer, we formed a very tight bond and achieved the same success as the main team. I'm not sure what guilds or games you have done end game content in but if you have never been in one where the officers and raid leaders weren't elite jerks colluding to exclude people then I am truly sorry.

This sounds all so reasonable, doesn't it? However, if I had a dollar for every time I was in a vet raid when there was one or two players who were goofing around and not taking it seriously, or had to listen to other players talk about a run they did with that sort of person--you know, that person that always gets into vet runs because they're buddies with someone or other people find them entertaining, but screws up all the time and the group has to finish the content despite that person, and no one actually admits that's what happening (and if you claim you never experienced this, I won't believe you). I mean, really, give me a break.

I ran a very tight ship..no pointing fingers at others, we win/lose as a team, everyone pulls their weight and pre-boss fight the only speaking was done by me and someone designated as my co-leader. Trash pulls were the time for joking, story telling, etc... pre-boss was mechanics, assignments and marking. Wipes were discussed from all perspectives however it was my sole decision as to whether to change our strat or not. Gear drops were traded freely amoung the team ON THEIR OWN not because someone told them to. And some of the best times I've had ingame are when we finally came together as that team and accomplished a goal. Even after a terrible wipe the cheering, laughing and commaraderie is something I will always remember. I am also still in contact with A LOT of the people on these teams.

Here's the thing: despite all the pretense of these players being very serious about these runs, the actual culture among end game content players, as I have continually experience to be, is a total high school scene. Players in these ranks are immature, petty, vindictive, and react to new players from outside their cliques with suspicion and condescension, going out of the way to make a new player jump through social hoops that have nothing to do with gear or skill or knowledge of the game to prove they "deserve" to be there.

I'm sure there are some like this, as you say we are human and the internet gives small people the opportunity to act big because of its anonymity. Personally, I stay away from these people ingame and in real life. But to say that ALL end game players are like this is at best disingenuiouis.

This is what a lot of people aren't talking about when they rush to defend why the end-game content culture is so toxic and elitist. Sometimes I think people are being knowingly disingenuous about it because as a participant in it, they don't want to look complicit. But other times people are just so used to it that they haven't really recognized it for what it is and/or are simply OK with it, because...how did you phrase it? "It's the nature of everything, even life if you think about it." Yeah, if only us human being had big brains and a lot of creativity to figure out ways to help each other more and make sure we can include more diversity of people in our leisure activities rather than slam the door in other people's faces because we can. Pity that. Anyhow, I am never amused by anyone's rationalization and coded talk that hides what ESO end-game culture is really like.

I am not and did not defend toxicity nor am I saying it doesn't exist. It does, has and always will BUT it is not as rampant as I think you are saying it is.You misrepresent my comment "It's the nature of everything, even life if you think about it." by taking it completely out of context and inserting it into your above statement. What I actually said was:

That being said....Not everything is for everybody. I think there should be some things that are only available to players completing the most difficult content. A game should offer things to all levels of play which means that some things will always be "out of reach" to someone. It's the nature of everything, even life if you think about it.

There really isn't a huge conspiracy to hide end game players desire to exclude or slam doors in players faces because it doesn't exist. EVERYONE has the right to play the way they want to and games do and have always offered content beyond SOMEONE'S reach or ability. It's the problem encountered when you have millions of humans engaging in an online game.

I would never want to hold back a team of players because I couldn't compete at their level. I play games knowing there are things I will not get because there are things I just can't do anymore and I never expect anyone to make allowances for me. I want to carry my own weight not be a burden on someone elses playstyle. I think there is room for everyone in gaming but we have to focus on ourselves and our accomplishments, not others and what they have or can get.

RogueShark

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

Why not make it so that everyone can get stuff like Kyne's Aegis boat, that way people with disabilities don't feel worthless for not being able to do Kyne's vet just so they can get nice things. People with disabilities are people, and are equally deserving of nice things; they are NOT "too worthless and don't deserve nice things" all because they have a disability.

And before anyone says "oh, but then people who want a challenge won't feel rewarded for it if they can't show off how special and superior they are with nice skins, furnishings, etc!"

People who truly want a challenge will do challenges regardless if they're given a special reward for it. Otherwise...people who want a challenge just for some special reward don't actually want a challenge, they want to feel superior to other players by showing off items that others cannot get.

Because ZoS would rightfully add another reward for vet, then, and there are people who would want that just as there are people who want the boat. There should be rewards and incentive for doing harder content. I got into vet content because I really wanted the vMol skin. People like shiny things to chase; MMOs are built on this. I like vet hardmode content not only for the challenge, but the rewards.

There are ways around it. If you know you'll never be able to complete vKA but you really want the ship, people do sell carries. Farming mats or playing the market or whatever else you want to do to farm gold can be done casually, at your own pace, with no stress or trigger-finger mechanics needed.

DawnsLight65

Supertonicbaker wrote: »

I can sympathize with the frustration. I can never do group content, ever, as I’m essentially deaf and mute. I’m sure that I’d be kicked instantly pugging and no militarily precise end game team would want someone tagging along that is incommunicado.

I have run MANY dungeons where no one has spoken at all. No typing either. I wouldnt kick you at all if you were pugged with me on any dungeon. The only one who needs to really speak is the leader.

AlnilamE

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

Why not make it so that everyone can get stuff like Kyne's Aegis boat, that way people with disabilities don't feel worthless for not being able to do Kyne's vet just so they can get nice things. People with disabilities are people, and are equally deserving of nice things; they are NOT "too worthless and don't deserve nice things" all because they have a disability.

And before anyone says "oh, but then people who want a challenge won't feel rewarded for it if they can't show off how special and superior they are with nice skins, furnishings, etc!"

People who truly want a challenge will do challenges regardless if they're given a special reward for it. Otherwise...people who want a challenge just for some special reward don't actually want a challenge, they want to feel superior to other players by showing off items that others cannot get.

So the boat you get from Master Angler is not good enough?