Ball Groups: A National Concern

DrSlaughtr

Increasing group size to 24 will also increase ball group size so the issue didn't change

We run two 12 man groups all the time. It really isn't harder to do it that way.

I think a siege weapon with damage multiplier is the way to go. Even better if it isn't cleansible. Ball groups would have to be more mobile and it would give other groups a way to make them uncomfortable without ruining the ball group dynamic.

Sanctum74

Makes more sense to just use the many counters already available instead of adding an I win button to the game. Ball groups would just use it against you and then people would be back complaining again.

DrSlaughtr

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Makes more sense to just use the many counters already available instead of adding an I win button to the game. Ball groups would just use it against you and then people would be back complaining again.

No one said anything about an I win button. The lack of destructible environments make it difficult to counter certain game play. Their ability to stack spam heals and purges make current siege useless against them.

Like it or not, most players don't want to ball up. It shouldn't take a zerg to kill 12 enemies.

And if they want to use such a siege weapon then more power to them but there's a reason why they usually don't use siege. They aren't usually trying to take keeps.

Sanctum74

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Makes more sense to just use the many counters already available instead of adding an I win button to the game. Ball groups would just use it against you and then people would be back complaining again.

No one said anything about an I win button. The lack of destructible environments make it difficult to counter certain game play. Their ability to stack spam heals and purges make current siege useless against them.

Like it or not, most players don't want to ball up. It shouldn't take a zerg to kill 12 enemies.

And if they want to use such a siege weapon then more power to them but there's a reason why they usually don't use siege. They aren't usually trying to take keeps.

Great point so how about we address heal stacking and purge instead of adding an i win button which will be used against us

Joy_Division

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Makes more sense to just use the many counters already available instead of adding an I win button to the game. Ball groups would just use it against you and then people would be back complaining again.

No one said anything about an I win button. The lack of destructible environments make it difficult to counter certain game play. Their ability to stack spam heals and purges make current siege useless against them.

Like it or not, most players don't want to ball up. It shouldn't take a zerg to kill 12 enemies.

And if they want to use such a siege weapon then more power to them but there's a reason why they usually don't use siege. They aren't usually trying to take keeps.

You did. You want a piece of inventory to place down and kill multiple players that you are incapable of doing so with your actual abilities. That's absolutely an I Win button. It's the equivalent of opening up the console on a game like Civilization and just nuking the crap of all the other civilizations.

You honestly think destroying resource towers is going to stop the pugs that get farmed chasing organized groups and small scalers who wait in there? This is a behavior issue that's not going to go away because players can destroy a resource tower. There are probably 1001 choke points throughout Cyrodiil that will serve just as well.

It doesn't take a zerg to kill 12 enemies. It just takes another 12 players with better players, superior teamwork, and more intelligent tactics. That's it. There isn't any need for ZOS to hand out the equivalent of tactical nukes. If you don;t want to be a part of a group of 10-12, that's fine. Just stop mindlessly chasing groups (of whatever size) of skilled players simply hoping numerical superiority will win the day and you'll stop appearing on the kill counts of organized group players.

CooloutAC

This is why I left gw2 and came here. Unfortunately i'm thinking now its just a natural outcome for any mmo. Its the most effective tactic for a big group. In gw2 you have 70vs70vs70 man ballgroups. Its not as easy as it looks and takes real coordination training and discipline with special bomb builds. but its just not my style of play. They remind me of insect hives following the movement of the queen. So many aoes on the screen i can't even tell what is happening sometimes. But GW2 is a very comeptitive pvp oriented community.

My problem with the ball groups in ESO Cyrodil, is that they don't even play the map. They are literally ganking ball groups playing as rss tower monkeys most of the time. If they were actually sieging to win the map, and battling against each other I could respect it more. But this is not the case with these guys. They are basically doing it to desync, gank, and ragequit the playerbase. Faction stacking as 3rd parties and everything. Only time they "pvdoor" is when everyone is sleeping.

Grayhost is usually the most even campaign in NA, and I have a feeling its because it is a locked campaign. Locking all campaigns would stop alot of deplorables and their shenanigans. I'm sure its been bought up 1000s of times though so I don't expect it to happen.

But regarding lag, this is unfortunate. maybe limit the amount of players? I hope its worked out.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Increasing group size to 24 will also increase ball group size so the issue didn't change

We run two 12 man groups all the time. It really isn't harder to do it that way.

I think a siege weapon with damage multiplier is the way to go. Even better if it isn't cleansible. Ball groups would have to be more mobile and it would give other groups a way to make them uncomfortable without ruining the ball group dynamic.

I mean 'ball groups' already have to run around constantly to stay alive, I'm not sure how you want us to be 'more mobile' lol. actually what would probs happen is trying to tank through it and rely on group based dmg output only for kills (rather than individual dd's in the groups)

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

CooloutAC wrote: »

Grayhost is usually the most even campaign in NA, and I have a feeling its because it is a locked campaign. Locking all campaigns would stop alot of deplorables and their shenanigans. I'm sure its been bought up 1000s of times though so I don't expect it to happen..

The only effect locking the campaign has is to prevent groups easily swapping over to underpopulated factions for better fights. (oh and prevents the pugs swarming to the overpopulated factions for easy wins but give and take)

Vlad9425

Ball Groups can survive 6 oils being dumped on them and multiple coldfires being shot at them and it's all because of Purge. You want to nerf Ball groups then you have to do something with Purge because it is the single most powerful tool for them to survive and it's criminal that this doesn't get talked about enough in these posts.

jekyto

I cant understand why vs normal group you can play sorta normally, with the regular lag. When theres ball group your skills and abilities are literally not working. Not to mention if you manage to survive their walk, u get feared, off balance, immobilized, stunned, rooted multiply times. This shouldnt be treated as a group play, more like exploit

Earthewen

Jaraal wrote: »

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

The only way I can think of to reliably get counter ball groups would be to add a siege weapon or ability that insta-kills all players (regardless of blocking/health/gear/CP passives) if X number of players are within a Y radius when the siege or ability goes off. Number of players and radius to be determined by ZOS. That way you can still run in one if you want, but you'll be vulnerable.
Otherwise, the only reliable way to kill a ball group seems to be with another ball group.

I don't think Insta-kill is the answer. More like having a siege with a damage multiplier that increases by the number of players in the AOE radius, similar to how the Inevitable Detonation and Proximity Detonation skills work (+25% more damage for each player hit) would be fair and encourage people to spread out.

Earthewen wrote: »

You aren't too far off with that. When we had 24 man raids that were organized, the ball groups had a run for their money. Not all 24 mans were ball groups and not all ball groups are 24 man raids. They do different things and behave differently. I used to love coming in with a 24-man and killing ball groups. They were sometimes still a challenge because of different ways of fighting between the two, but it was fun when things could go either way. We started going wrong when everything because an "arms race" instead of relying on imagination to come up with new tactics and strategies.

I guess what I'm saying is if you want ball groups to start losing more (at least I think that's what we are talking about), put the 24-man raid back into play. It will give them a challenge again.

24 man groups were the most fun I've ever had in Cyrodiil. And it certainly didn't improve performance to remove them, like they imagined it would. All it did was make group leaders less likely to add unknowns since the cost of adding potentially unskilled players is now much higher and has more impact on success. Every day there are still people complaining in zone chat about not being able to get a group.

Instead of finding ways to make AvAvA more fun, ZOS seems to prefer cutting things out, even when those changes end up having little to no positive impact on performance.

Absolutely. Another great thing about 24- man groups is you could afford to carry a few new members who had never played. They could run with you and learn instead of dying alone somewhere after being shot in the back by a ganker. In the 12-man groups, you can't afford to carry any more than maybe one unknown/new player. Kinda gives the new guys out there the shaft which I don't like at all. I'd much rather be able to take a few more newbies into the group. Maybe this is why so many people don't group up like they used to (one reason. I'm sure there are others.)

Earthewen

Let's face it. Exploiters will always exist. Mankind has exploited and cheated since the dawn of time. It is foolishness to think it doesn't happen in an MMO. It's human nature. So for someone to mention exploit isn't wrong at all. You can barely gather 10 people in a room for 30 minutes and NOT see someone exploit something to gain an advantage over the rest. It is the worst of humans.

jekyto wrote: »

I cant understand why vs normal group you can play sorta normally, with the regular lag. When theres ball group your skills and abilities are literally not working. Not to mention if you manage to survive their walk, u get feared, off balance, immobilized, stunned, rooted multiply times. This shouldn't be treated as a group play, more like exploit

I still believe that a global immunity on all CCs would be the way to go. It would not keep you from being CC'ed in the first place, but would give you a fighting chance if you got caught in it and the got out of it. As it is, you stand there and wiggle for about 5 seconds or less if you're squishy. lol

While wiggling might look amusing on screen, your frustration might rise as everyone else giggles.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Earthewen wrote: »

Let's face it. Exploiters will always exist. Mankind has exploited and cheated since the dawn of time. It is foolishness to think it doesn't happen in an MMO. It's human nature. So for someone to mention exploit isn't wrong at all. You can barely gather 10 people in a room for 30 minutes and NOT see someone exploit something to gain an advantage over the rest. It is the worst of humans.

jekyto wrote: »

I cant understand why vs normal group you can play sorta normally, with the regular lag. When theres ball group your skills and abilities are literally not working. Not to mention if you manage to survive their walk, u get feared, off balance, immobilized, stunned, rooted multiply times. This shouldn't be treated as a group play, more like exploit

I still believe that a global immunity on all CCs would be the way to go. It would not keep you from being CC'ed in the first place, but would give you a fighting chance if you got caught in it and the got out of it. As it is, you stand there and wiggle for about 5 seconds or less if you're squishy. lol

While wiggling might look amusing on screen, your frustration might rise as everyone else giggles.

There is already a global immunity on hard CC's.

There are also skills which give you immunity to soft CC's.

There's also a potion which gives you immunity to hard CC's

Not sure what more they can add at this point.

Sure there are some bugs such as streak bug which give you fake CC effect permanently and this patch they have brought back to player desyncing bugs which lock your character in place on everyone else screen whilst you are unable to use abilities on your screen.

Fundamentally you should be asking for fixes of those 2 issues rather than for a 'global immunity' because it already exists.

jekyto

True, can use pot with 45s cooldown but skills before or after no way. I participated in all tests and so far can say for me current no proc is the most successful lag wisely... Until you meet ballgroup. But as long as this community supports them and give up easily with - we cant stop exploiters, then nothing will change. Lag will stay and all these threads will keep reappear and dissapear.
Also there are sites on internet where ppl are offering emperor title for few hundred euros. Think about who is capable to make you an emperor? I can only suggest ballgroup insiders to be bannable with screenshot

Mamba

jekyto wrote: »

True, can use pot with 45s cooldown but skills before or after no way. I participated in all tests and so far can say for me current no proc is the most successful lag wisely... Until you meet ballgroup. But as long as this community supports them and give up easily with - we cant stop exploiters, then nothing will change. Lag will stay and all these threads will keep reappear and dissapear.
Also there are sites on internet where ppl are offering emperor title for few hundred euros. Think about who is capable to make you an emperor? I can only suggest ballgroup insiders to be bannable with screenshot

The community does not support "ball groups" at all. That is why there is a new forum post every other week complaining about our playstyle and calling us every name under the sun related to cheating.

If you want to try and blame ball groups for lag then you also need to take a look at the 50+ faction stacks that have been going on since proc sets were removed. Without VD all the pugs have no reason to spread out so all of EP, DC, and AD will just group up and push the same keep together. While ball groups using cross heals and group buffs does contribute to lag you can't ignore that the 50+ people all running to the same keep spamming their own abilities don't cause just as much lag as a 12 man group.

jekyto

Nope, been already several times in such big fights between the 3 factions, just the normal lag with 50+ stacks on screen with balistas, catapults, oils etc. But i need just 1 ballgroup to make my skillbar freeze. And alot of ppl do support the ballgroups, as long as they making their ap and wining scrolls everythings just fine

DrSlaughtr

jekyto wrote: »

Nope, been already several times in such big fights between the 3 factions, just the normal lag with 50+ stacks on screen with balistas, catapults, oils etc. But i need just 1 ballgroup to make my skillbar freeze. And alot of ppl do support the ballgroups, as long as they making their ap and wining scrolls everythings just fine

This. It DOES make a difference when a coordinated ball group shows up doing their mass rotation of contact aoe spams. It does affect everyone in the local area.

Thraben

jekyto wrote: »

Also there are sites on internet where ppl are offering emperor title for few hundred euros. Think about who is capable to make you an emperor? I can only suggest ballgroup insiders to be bannable with screenshot

Emps are made by faction stacks and by people who trade the title on dead campaigns during off-times.

Jaraal

TheEndBringer wrote: »

jekyto wrote: »

Nope, been already several times in such big fights between the 3 factions, just the normal lag with 50+ stacks on screen with balistas, catapults, oils etc. But i need just 1 ballgroup to make my skillbar freeze. And alot of ppl do support the ballgroups, as long as they making their ap and wining scrolls everythings just fine

This. It DOES make a difference when a coordinated ball group shows up doing their mass rotation of contact aoe spams. It does affect everyone in the local area.

I'm not anti-ball group, as I respect the coordination and discipline involved in running one, as well as enjoying the challenge of taking one down. But ball group lag is very real. My frame rate and skill delay is much more impacted around a coordinated 12 as it is a loose zerg of 50.

The responsibility for the performance impact rests on how the encounter is coded. It's not the fault of the players using the system ZOS created.

CooloutAC

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

CooloutAC wrote: »

Grayhost is usually the most even campaign in NA, and I have a feeling its because it is a locked campaign. Locking all campaigns would stop alot of deplorables and their shenanigans. I'm sure its been bought up 1000s of times though so I don't expect it to happen..

The only effect locking the campaign has is to prevent groups easily swapping over to underpopulated factions for better fights. (oh and prevents the pugs swarming to the overpopulated factions for easy wins but give and take)

IMO people who don't care about fair play covers alot of types of deplorables and they are all the same. . including those who want to ragequit players with ganking ballgroups while ignoring the map and game mode. They want to undermine the game by any means necessary and go for the low hanging fruit.

CooloutAC

Thraben wrote: »

jekyto wrote: »

Also there are sites on internet where ppl are offering emperor title for few hundred euros. Think about who is capable to make you an emperor? I can only suggest ballgroup insiders to be bannable with screenshot

Emps are made by faction stacks and by people who trade the title on dead campaigns during off-times.

facts.

Kwoung

Do all the folks I have read in here offering "counters" to ball groups understand that 90% of those suggestions will decimate Zergs? Siege does more damage on stacked players, bring it on, let me wipe that zerg with one shot of my meatbag. Stop heal stacking, have the zerglings not noticed that heal stacking is generally what is keeping them alive?

Also, the lag on Greyhost NA recently has been 100% better, until the entire AD faction shows up in zerg form, then the entire place turns into a slideshow (I play DC). Half my group gets instantly disconnected upon their arrival, so pretty sure its not some ball group doing it.

This no-proc Cyro has been really fun otherwise, but AD apparently has it together with faction stacking to overcome the lack of proc sets now and it is working for them, I either get tossed to login or simply can't move upon their arrival to the fight so we end up losing because of it. So in that respect I feel this extended test is a fail, as it has actually made things worst because of how the factions are dealing with it (massive stacking).

Minnesinger

Lets talk about the ball group in honest. The reason why ball groups do so well is their extremely well thought gear setup. The right type of players in the role that fits them well. I have been in a couple of these ball groups and their players do great also in solo. As a matter fact, many guilds did not recruit if not proven to be a capable player. The guild lead were merciless in their purge of guild members. Do bad and they show you the door.

How I see this whole conversation is that these players wear some gear that someone recommends. Think they are given the god like powers to kill anyone. Get killed. Ask for nerfs.

Minnesinger

I continue with a story of a popular streamer. He could whack and hack players solo but when the guild ran he did not stay in line, but went after the fights on his own. They kick him out.

DrSlaughtr

Kwoung wrote: »

Do all the folks I have read in here offering "counters" to ball groups understand that 90% of those suggestions will decimate Zergs?

That's not a bad thing.

Earthewen

There have been a few responses made regarding my request for global immunity on all CC's whether hard, soft, or from different individuals. I think there might be a misunderstanding about what I mean. I understand what devices are currently available to us in game, ie pots, race against time, etc. Those would all be great if they worked reliably.

Back in 2014, @Brian_Wheeler made a post that perfectly described what I'm talking about. http://tamrieljournal.com/eso-pvp-qa-with-brian-wheeler/ is the link for you to check out. But take a look at this section in particular:




This was the intended functioning of CC's and the planned result of finally breaking free or the timer running out. We all know from playing that fear is completely broken and has been for years. These broken and bugged skills seem to be the ones most frequently used by some players in order to gain an advantage. This is most strongly demonstrated by larger groups that do this repeatedly, which I think was the point to the discussion a page or two back.

To be frank, the CC fest has been going on for some time, but appears to be most often used by some of the ball groups and precipitates most of the kills they get. If as players, we had a global immunity of say 5 seconds, regardless of the source, then it would give the players the experience that Brian talks about here. Basically, we would not have the CC fest here that we currently have, and I suspect a great deal of the problems that a lot of players are experiencing would be alleviated as well. If immunity worked as it was supposed to, we would not be having this conversation. However, we all know that they are not working as they are supposed to work .... I'm pretty sure that most PvP players are aware of that and have experienced it themselves.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Earthewen wrote: »

There have been a few responses made regarding my request for global immunity on all CC's whether hard, soft, or from different individuals. I think there might be a misunderstanding about what I mean. I understand what devices are currently available to us in game, ie pots, race against time, etc. Those would all be great if they worked reliably.

Back in 2014, @Brian_Wheeler made a post that perfectly described what I'm talking about. http://tamrieljournal.com/eso-pvp-qa-with-brian-wheeler/ is the link for you to check out. But take a look at this section in particular:




This was the intended functioning of CC's and the planned result of finally breaking free or the timer running out. We all know from playing that fear is completely broken and has been for years. These broken and bugged skills seem to be the ones most frequently used by some players in order to gain an advantage. This is most strongly demonstrated by larger groups that do this repeatedly, which I think was the point to the discussion a page or two back.

To be frank, the CC fest has been going on for some time, but appears to be most often used by some of the ball groups and precipitates most of the kills they get. If as players, we had a global immunity of say 5 seconds, regardless of the source, then it would give the players the experience that Brian talks about here. Basically, we would not have the CC fest here that we currently have, and I suspect a great deal of the problems that a lot of players are experiencing would be alleviated as well. If immunity worked as it was supposed to, we would not be having this conversation. However, we all know that they are not working as they are supposed to work .... I'm pretty sure that most PvP players are aware of that and have experienced it themselves.

you have currently a global immunity of more than 5 seconds. What causes the feeling that you don't are bugs such as the ones I mentioned in my post.
As well as that 90% of the time when players 'can't break free' its because they haven't managed their stam correctly and actually don't have enough.

Feel free to provide some examples of what you consider to be broken CC (in video form) to illustrate your point.

Faded

Kwoung wrote: »

Do all the folks I have read in here offering "counters" to ball groups understand that 90% of those suggestions will decimate Zergs?

Nope. They don't think that part through.

Earthewen

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Earthewen wrote: »

There have been a few responses made regarding my request for global immunity on all CC's whether hard, soft, or from different individuals. I think there might be a misunderstanding about what I mean. I understand what devices are currently available to us in game, ie pots, race against time, etc. Those would all be great if they worked reliably.

Back in 2014, @Brian_Wheeler made a post that perfectly described what I'm talking about. http://tamrieljournal.com/eso-pvp-qa-with-brian-wheeler/ is the link for you to check out. But take a look at this section in particular:




This was the intended functioning of CC's and the planned result of finally breaking free or the timer running out. We all know from playing that fear is completely broken and has been for years. These broken and bugged skills seem to be the ones most frequently used by some players in order to gain an advantage. This is most strongly demonstrated by larger groups that do this repeatedly, which I think was the point to the discussion a page or two back.

To be frank, the CC fest has been going on for some time, but appears to be most often used by some of the ball groups and precipitates most of the kills they get. If as players, we had a global immunity of say 5 seconds, regardless of the source, then it would give the players the experience that Brian talks about here. Basically, we would not have the CC fest here that we currently have, and I suspect a great deal of the problems that a lot of players are experiencing would be alleviated as well. If immunity worked as it was supposed to, we would not be having this conversation. However, we all know that they are not working as they are supposed to work .... I'm pretty sure that most PvP players are aware of that and have experienced it themselves.

you have currently a global immunity of more than 5 seconds. What causes the feeling that you don't are bugs such as the ones I mentioned in my post.
As well as that 90% of the time when players 'can't break free' its because they haven't managed their stam correctly and actually don't have enough.

Feel free to provide some examples of what you consider to be broken CC (in video form) to illustrate your point.

Feel free…..well, sure- I would attempt such a thing if I thought for one second I could provide a video showing what one player cast and how many times- who it hit and exactly what they did with their hands to get out of it. But, I think there would be no way to show all that simultaneously in a sufficient a way that someone could not simply say “they used dodge and should have used break free” ”they used break free and should have dodged” or “they were just out of stam”. Pretty sure that could be said ANYTIME and no real way available beyond the player saying otherwise to show it.

However, I formulated a hypothesis a long time ago to give me some additional insight into if ball groups, specifically ones who seem to get the most complaints about ‘fear bugging’ ‘perma lock’ ‘perma stun’ ‘in combat’ ‘pema slow’ or ‘1800000 days status effects’ type of things, were were using certain skills. I would not mind sharing what I found if you were interested.

I postulated that I needed someone who knew the skills and durations of immunity and was in a group that had many players complaining of seeing the things happen that I had seen. In short, someone who would know that overusing a particular skill would or could produce extraordinary effects and use that to their advantage.

So, I just happen to have fought one of those groups on Sunday. After fighting them twice inside Chal and clearing them out I went to Aleswell to siege but had to turn around at door due to bleaks flag. Part way back the aforementioned group was on wall of Aleswell and piled off it immediately giving me a great log of just our 12 and their 12 for almost 2 min- unfortunately another DC raid came off the wall behind us as we fought them on the stairs up to farm on Aleswell and between both groups with the only choke point taken already by the ball group---we did not prevail. But I did get a good log of almost two mins of fighting with them alone. This is a GM and Raid Lead of well known ball group on DC who seems to gather a large volume of player complaints. I feel confident this player would know what skills do, how cooldowns work and how long there are immunities for. Sorry about taking a while to respond but I wanted to be 100% certain I took all names and revealing info out of the picture here so it would not get my post pulled down.



Interestingly, what I see is mystifying. Maybe you know, but I don’t, why someone in such a short duration would bar swap to such a degree (132) the number of skills used doesn’t even correlate to that number- it seems (this Raid Lead is NB) there really are only two skills this player used in that fight. Fear (80), and radiating regen (29). I do believe I found the player running harmonized as it seems the only other thing they did was synergize. But oddly, bar swap, fear, and radiating regen out of all the skills a NB could use are the only ones this person used to almost exclusivity.

To me, a no ball group player I am amazed by this- and it seems to me the unusual number of fears this player used (since they probably understand cooldowns and immunities) being the number one skill beyond bar swap…….suggests to me that they are over using this skill often complained about in zone and in forums for causing issues. So much so that I would think its hard to NOT call it overused and maybe even crutched on. What does all that mean to me? It means someone who knows all the immunities and skills available to them selected specifically one that does 0 damage and often malfunctions. To me, this was all I needed to see (and you see it over and over with ball groups) what I think is selecting something known to have issues and using precisely that because the immunities are not working properly in game. Before you ask….. yes, the other players in this raid all seem to use at MOST 3 skills repeatedly and of course have an extraordinary amount of bar swaps for no apparent reason. I would say about 60% of the group used a cc of some type in a similar way as the lead. Again, to me this suggests they well know this stuff isn’t working as its supposed to, otherwise why use them to such a massive degree KNOWING there is supposed to be immunity unless……immunity is not working properly.
Now I am not an expert, but maybe you could explain this as you seem to be very comfortable with how things work. Feel free to link any supportive video you might have showing why/how/purpose to further illustrate the points.

Joy_Division

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Earthewen wrote: »

There have been a few responses made regarding my request for global immunity on all CC's whether hard, soft, or from different individuals. I think there might be a misunderstanding about what I mean. I understand what devices are currently available to us in game, ie pots, race against time, etc. Those would all be great if they worked reliably.

Back in 2014, @Brian_Wheeler made a post that perfectly described what I'm talking about. http://tamrieljournal.com/eso-pvp-qa-with-brian-wheeler/ is the link for you to check out. But take a look at this section in particular:




This was the intended functioning of CC's and the planned result of finally breaking free or the timer running out. We all know from playing that fear is completely broken and has been for years. These broken and bugged skills seem to be the ones most frequently used by some players in order to gain an advantage. This is most strongly demonstrated by larger groups that do this repeatedly, which I think was the point to the discussion a page or two back.

To be frank, the CC fest has been going on for some time, but appears to be most often used by some of the ball groups and precipitates most of the kills they get. If as players, we had a global immunity of say 5 seconds, regardless of the source, then it would give the players the experience that Brian talks about here. Basically, we would not have the CC fest here that we currently have, and I suspect a great deal of the problems that a lot of players are experiencing would be alleviated as well. If immunity worked as it was supposed to, we would not be having this conversation. However, we all know that they are not working as they are supposed to work .... I'm pretty sure that most PvP players are aware of that and have experienced it themselves.

you have currently a global immunity of more than 5 seconds. What causes the feeling that you don't are bugs such as the ones I mentioned in my post.
As well as that 90% of the time when players 'can't break free' its because they haven't managed their stam correctly and actually don't have enough.

Feel free to provide some examples of what you consider to be broken CC (in video form) to illustrate your point.

Magicka characters have 20K+ stamina now. For years now, managing stamina has been trivial in CP campaigns. We have enough. 90% of the time I can't break free is when I encounter an organized group and the server is so stressed out that by the time the game actually registers that I used my break free key, I've been hit with multiple harmony procs, destro ults, AoE spams, prox dets, it's GG with basically zero chance.

The game's engine loves CC. It prioritizes CC over other inputs. There have been numerous times I hit an immovable potion at the same time of an incoming CC and of course it's the CC that registers even though my potion is put on cooldown.