Please let us disable DLC dungeons for ESO+ users

QuebraRegra

josiahva wrote: »

Not this again, don't expect to gain the full amount of experience if you aren't willing to do what you signed up for. Lets be realistic...the 111k xp or whatever it is is a garbage reward anyway. You are complaining you may have to play an hour to get the reward instead of 15 minutes...if you hate that so much, why not just go to Old Orsinium and run in circles killing harpies? You will gain more experience in less time than either, in addition to materials and motifs, take the gold you get from the materials there and go buy skyreach runs and you will get even more xp in less time(or go solo skyreach on your own, its pretty easy). The point is that if its experience you are after, random dungeons are a terribly inefficient way of doing it. In the meantime, by removing yourself from the pool of available players, people trying to farm a given dungeon now have to wait longer. No, the reason they give you the "generous" amount of xp that they do is that so other people are able to fill their farming groups...the sooner people realize this the better. There are a ton of better ways to grind xp in this game if that is your goal.

you completely missed the point... queue without ESO+ gets you EZmode, queue with ESO+ paid sub is a penalty.

VoidCommander

The best solution would be to disable a group forming for a dlc dungeon unless one of the members specifically queued for it. That way if I need to farm a zen's inferno staff from lair of maarsolok, I can still get a group. Additionally, it would minimize things like getting Frost Vault as a random normal, despite no one needing gear from there.

AlnilamE

Ascarl wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

If they reduce the reward to blue if you uncheck the DLC option, sure!

For non ESO + subscribers the DLC option is already unchecked with purple rewards.

ICP and WGT say hi! (And they really should start adding the older DLC dungeons to the base game)

But I would extend that to people who don't have ESO+ and don't own any DLCs then, if it makes you feel better.

p00tx

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

You all know if you just queue with anyone below lvl 45 🤔 then no dlc dungeon or hard one in fact. Just grab someone in a starter zone or ask a friend, or guild mate to brig low level toon

I wish this were true, but I've been random queued into several DLC instances on a sub CP character many many times. You're supposed to be right, but something is broken.

AlnilamE

Ascarl wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Not this again, don't expect to gain the full amount of experience if you aren't willing to do what you signed up for. Lets be realistic...the 111k xp or whatever it is is a garbage reward anyway. You are complaining you may have to play an hour to get the reward instead of 15 minutes...if you hate that so much, why not just go to Old Orsinium and run in circles killing harpies? You will gain more experience in less time than either, in addition to materials and motifs, take the gold you get from the materials there and go buy skyreach runs and you will get even more xp in less time(or go solo skyreach on your own, its pretty easy). The point is that if its experience you are after, random dungeons are a terribly inefficient way of doing it. In the meantime, by removing yourself from the pool of available players, people trying to farm a given dungeon now have to wait longer. No, the reason they give you the "generous" amount of xp that they do is that so other people are able to fill their farming groups...the sooner people realize this the better. There are a ton of better ways to grind xp in this game if that is your goal.

And if someone wants to experience a specific dungeon he/she won't sign up for random but a specific one.

But they will need help from people who ARE signing up for random. That's why the random queue exists, and that's why it has the rewards it does.

Maybe they should remove the crystals from it and add it to the reward for the DLC pledge. :-P

caperb

jaws343 wrote: »

caperb wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Completely agree.

People always try to argue that it is a random queue. But they miss the point that by not supporting the game with a subscription, the hardest dungeon you have to endure for a random is City of Ash 2. That is far from random when not providing money eliminates half the dungeons from consideration from the queue. It's nonsense. And it only gets worse every time dlc dungeons are added to the game.

But it is not a random queue, it is a LFG queue where the people who queue random are used to fill up the groups that queue for certain dungeons. And since most people apparently queue for DLC dungeons (because there are more of them, for the gear they drop or just because they really don't want to run that base game dungeon again), people who are queuing for random dungeon get a DLC dungeon more often.

The reason DLC dungeons pop a lot is because more people quit them or fail them requiring it to pull ESO+ subscribers in to fill groups.

The fact still remains that a paid subscriber to the game is forced into harder content if they chose to do a random when a non paying player gets easy dungeons all the time.

No, people rarely quit dungeons, be it base game or DLC.

I understand that some of you want a non DLC queue, but let's face it: it's not going to happen.

It is not going to happen not because I do not want it, but because it is completely unrealistic. ZOS uses the dungeon finder to fill up groups for people that queue for specific dungeons.

Now, why do DLC dungeons pop more often:
- There are more DLC dungeons than non DLC dungeons. Over time more and more DLC dungeons will be released, which causes an increased amount of DLC pops.
- Most interesting gear is from DLC dungeons because there are more DLC dungeons and the gear is newer. This causes more people to queue for DLC than for non DLC.
- Most people can't be arsed anymore to do base game dungeons. You ask someone to do pledges, answer will probably be "only DLC". Can you remember doing base game pledges except if it was on an alt to level undaunted? Most players only doing the DLC pledge anymore because yeh doing that same base game dungeon for 7 years straigth is enjoyable

Obviously DLC dungeons are a lot more popular than base game dungeons, which results in the high change of DLC pops. Because ZOS uses the group tool to fill up specific queues, they won't be splitting the queue to add a non DLC option. The group finder is a LFG tool, not a Random dungeon tool.

And to be honest, solutions to avoid DLC dungeons exist and have been given by numerous players in this thread.

Edit: FV and MHK are getting nerfed into oblivion next patch. This always happens after some time, the DLC dungeons will be adjusted to base game difficulty so there are always only a couple of 'hard' dungeons in the game. Only difference is that they are longer.

preevious

I'd say yes, if only to stop having players getting frightened and bailing right at the start.

I mean, if it's the other DD, finding a replacement will be quick, but if the tank or healer leave .. there's gonna be some wainting..

Josira

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

Imagine trying to do a random dungeon for the 10 crystals and getting Lair of Maarselok...

how bad/long is Lair of Maarselok?...ive never done it before. am curious

gatekeeper13

QuebraRegra wrote: »

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

Imagine trying to do a random dungeon for the 10 crystals and getting Lair of Maarselok...

*back right out and wastes time*

yup, gotta love that sub

Happened to me recently and did the mistake to try and finish it because I had forgotten how long it was.... Jesus, it was a nightmare, looked like it would never end...

Josira wrote: »

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

Imagine trying to do a random dungeon for the 10 crystals and getting Lair of Maarselok...

how bad/long is Lair of Maarselok?...ive never done it before. am curious

If you do it for the first time or do an achievement, it's a nice dungeon. But not if you want to do a fast rnd before you logout. Dont know exactly how many minutes it takes to complete it but it is probably the longest dungeon in ESO.

Gundug

Josira wrote: »

how bad/long is Lair of Maarselok?...ive never done it before. am curious

It does go on for a bit. Like most DLC dungeons, it has a number of long empty spaces to pass through in order to pad the run time and make it bigger. If the crew knows what they are doing, it’s not at all difficult on normal.

lolo_01b16_ESO

In my understanding the porpose of the random queue is that if you don't care what dungeon you do, you get to help someone who wants to do a specific dungeon and can't find people for it.

In my opinion it's a design flaw that a "random" fungal grotto 1 is one of the fastest ways to get transmute stones. Instead of taking away people from dlc dungeons and making it even harder to find a tank for moongrave to get that hollowfang staff as a healer, they should adjust the rewards to match the time / effort needed. So instead having 10 stones for every random, maybe say 5 stones for the short non dlcs (fungal, spindle, ...), 10 for the longer non dlc (icp, blackheart, tempest, ...) and 15 for dlcs. And then allow players instead of queueing for a total random to also select one (or two) of those 3 groups of dungeons if they want to do e.g. only the fast ones or specifically the ones that grant most rewards.

Eedat

jaws343 wrote: »

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

I used to hate it but then I now know that splitting the queue adds to the troubles in the group finder. That's one problem that we've seen adversely affect everyone with how the finder system is the backbone for the entire game in respects.

The other is that it pushes ppl into new content and allows a larger pool from which to pull players into said content. You would very likely see much longer queue times by taking out the DLC dungeons from rotations.

My problem with the "pushes people into new content" approach is I really don't want a player I need to teach showing up in a dlc dungeon 6 months after it released because they chose the random queue.

DLC dungeons are difficult. And I'd rather have a group formed from people who specifically chose to be in the dungeon rather than people who got forced into it.

Are you talking about vet or normals? Normal DLCs are still super eaay

Mettaricana

Either turn off or exclude specific dungeons

stefj68

Please don't change it, it will stop 90% of the people to queue for random, and help when you are trying to grind a specific dungeon...

i remember trying to farm tzo from frostvault as a dps and wait 30-45 min between each... now if people can disable them... i will prolly wait 4 hours instead

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo

Zos: 'Paying customers are complaining about the length of DLC dungeons!'
Zos: 'Ok let's nerf them!'
Us : 'nooooo!'

amm7sb14_ESO

Josira wrote: »

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

Imagine trying to do a random dungeon for the 10 crystals and getting Lair of Maarselok...

how bad/long is Lair of Maarselok?...ive never done it before. am curious

It's the only dungeon I have never completed on vet. I hate it with every fiber of my being.

DaveMoeDee

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

I used to hate it but then I now know that splitting the queue adds to the troubles in the group finder. That's one problem that we've seen adversely affect everyone with how the finder system is the backbone for the entire game in respects.

The other is that it pushes ppl into new content and allows a larger pool from which to pull players into said content. You would very likely see much longer queue times by taking out the DLC dungeons from rotations.

Queue times would not be significantly impacted. The only way there is a significant impact is if all the tanks queue in one of the queues and aren't distributed as evenly as the other roles. Odds are most of the tanks are also running dailies and will queue for no DLC. The people at risk of significantly longer queues are those queued for specific DLC dungeons.

And if you had a longer queue time for DLC dungeons, you can also expect that less people will immediately leave group when the dungeon is revealed. Right now, if you queue for a specific DLC dungeon, you will get grouped with people doing a random dungeon for the daily rewards who might either have no interest in completing the dungeon or not have the skill.

The "random" grouping system is already not at all random. If you choose a "random" dungeon, you are likely to end up with the dungeon some other person chose to queue for. I noticed on my alts that as soon as they reached the level where DLC dungeons would be included in random (45?), they got like 80% DLC. Often it was replacing a tank that quit. That was fine for me because I am comfortable with that content and it was just on normal. In fact, my only clears for a dungeon or two were from random normals on alts. But if I am queuing for the DLC pledge and I am pulled in as a replacement and their progress is too far for me to get credit, I am not going to join their group. I am not interested in repeating dungeons unless I'm doing it for specific rewards. But since everyone gets pulled into those dungeons, groups are more likely to stall out like that.

The real problem being noted by the OP is that people often have to choose between subbing for craft bag or not subbing to not get pulled into DLC dungeons. Subbing should never be a penalty, but it is in this case.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

danno8 wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Not this again, don't expect to gain the full amount of experience if you aren't willing to do what you signed up for. Lets be realistic...the 111k xp or whatever it is is a garbage reward anyway. You are complaining you may have to play an hour to get the reward instead of 15 minutes...if you hate that so much, why not just go to Old Orsinium and run in circles killing harpies? You will gain more experience in less time than either, in addition to materials and motifs, take the gold you get from the materials there and go buy skyreach runs and you will get even more xp in less time(or go solo skyreach on your own, its pretty easy). The point is that if its experience you are after, random dungeons are a terribly inefficient way of doing it. In the meantime, by removing yourself from the pool of available players, people trying to farm a given dungeon now have to wait longer. No, the reason they give you the "generous" amount of xp that they do is that so other people are able to fill their farming groups...the sooner people realize this the better. There are a ton of better ways to grind xp in this game if that is your goal.

Nobody cares about the XP.

We are going to in about a week.

What they should do is split the queue, and double the XP and transmutes if you queue for a DLC random. It turns a serious drawback of ESO+ into an advantage (maybe even one worth paying for), the added incentive will keep people in the DLC queue, and people can still do a quick non-DLC random if they want.

Edit: these are rewards where it doesnt really matter if they get doubled. You can still get better XP/hour by grinding, and transmutes have a cap and cant be traded, so no real effect on the economy. It also makes sense. You should get more transmute from a random DLC and even more if its on vet.

No secret, I run Random Normals for transmutes currently. In a week, I will care about the experience as well. If my random normal is a 15-25 minute dungeon + queue, I think the tradeoff is pretty reasonable. If its a 90 minute process, well, I have to consider opportunity cost because in 90 Minutes, I can probably get that same toon on the PVP leaderboard for 5 times the transmutes. I get that its not exactly apples to apples because you can only do 1 PVP board per toon per month, and this can be done daily, but its still something to consider.

DaveMoeDee

caperb wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

caperb wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Completely agree.

People always try to argue that it is a random queue. But they miss the point that by not supporting the game with a subscription, the hardest dungeon you have to endure for a random is City of Ash 2. That is far from random when not providing money eliminates half the dungeons from consideration from the queue. It's nonsense. And it only gets worse every time dlc dungeons are added to the game.

But it is not a random queue, it is a LFG queue where the people who queue random are used to fill up the groups that queue for certain dungeons. And since most people apparently queue for DLC dungeons (because there are more of them, for the gear they drop or just because they really don't want to run that base game dungeon again), people who are queuing for random dungeon get a DLC dungeon more often.

The reason DLC dungeons pop a lot is because more people quit them or fail them requiring it to pull ESO+ subscribers in to fill groups.

The fact still remains that a paid subscriber to the game is forced into harder content if they chose to do a random when a non paying player gets easy dungeons all the time.

No, people rarely quit dungeons, be it base game or DLC.

...

I assume you DPS. As a tank, you get sucked into a lot of failed groups. I stopped helping stuck groups on pledges after 3 straight queues brought me to groups stuck at bosses too far along for me to get credit for the pledge. Often it is because the tank saw the dps had no hope and cut bait.

You also misrepresent the dungeon situation. A minority of people are queueing for specific dungeons for gear. The majority are doing daily randoms or pledges. The people doing daily randoms generally do not want to do a DLC dungeon, but the one person queued for it sucks them into the dungeon. I will go ahead with the DLC dungeon in general, but it is quite common to be running a DLC dungeon where only 1 of 4 people wants to be there and 3 would have preferred a quicker base game dungeon.

And none of that matters. What matters is that subbing should not penalize players. If someone subs, now they are subservient to the whims of other players wanting to grind gear in long-running dungeons?

DaveMoeDee

stefj68 wrote: »

Please don't change it, it will stop 90% of the people to queue for random, and help when you are trying to grind a specific dungeon...

i remember trying to farm tzo from frostvault as a dps and wait 30-45 min between each... now if people can disable them... i will prolly wait 4 hours instead

Better that you have to wait than you get to mangle the queue.

Farm it on a pledge day.

MaxWacksem

I don't understand, could you not just pick a dungeon? Or have a list of the "x" number of dungeons you like and just roll a dice? If you really need the randomization.
I guess it's much easier for ESO to change coding then for people to make a list and roll a die.
Not trying to bait, just frustrating that people think the "World" should change to accommodate their desire's.

PeacefulAnarchy

Make 2 queues, one random non-DLC, one DLC, give each one their own separate daily reward. It will increase people in the non-DLC queue from the people who now don't queue to avoid the DLC, will add reward chasers who queue specifically for DLC dungeons to fill the DLC queue, and reduce quitting from people who don't want one or the other, and those who want both can now do both and get extra rewards. All the valuable rewards from dungeons are bound anyway, so this doesn't impact the economy at all, win-win for everyone.

DaveMoeDee

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: »

Make 2 queues, one random non-DLC, one DLC, give each one their own separate daily reward. It will increase people in the non-DLC queue from the people who now don't queue to avoid the DLC, will add reward chasers who queue specifically for DLC dungeons to fill the DLC queue, and reduce quitting from people who don't want one or the other, and those who want both can now do both and get extra rewards. All the valuable rewards from dungeons are bound anyway, so this doesn't impact the economy at all, win-win for everyone.

That in no way addresses the problem the OP is talking about. If I don't have a sub, I can join the better reward queue and, at worst, I get an IC dungeon. Add a sub and I get, on average, a harder dungeon than the person who doesn't sub.

We need to get rid of penalties for subbing.

amm7sb14_ESO

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

stefj68 wrote: »

Please don't change it, it will stop 90% of the people to queue for random, and help when you are trying to grind a specific dungeon...

i remember trying to farm tzo from frostvault as a dps and wait 30-45 min between each... now if people can disable them... i will prolly wait 4 hours instead

Better that you have to wait than you get to mangle the queue.

Farm it on a pledge day.

No.
________

There's so many people in this game that hate actually playing the content of the game.

Magdalina

jaws343 wrote: »

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

I used to hate it but then I now know that splitting the queue adds to the troubles in the group finder. That's one problem that we've seen adversely affect everyone with how the finder system is the backbone for the entire game in respects.

The other is that it pushes ppl into new content and allows a larger pool from which to pull players into said content. You would very likely see much longer queue times by taking out the DLC dungeons from rotations.

My problem with the "pushes people into new content" approach is I really don't want a player I need to teach showing up in a dlc dungeon 6 months after it released because they chose the random queue.

DLC dungeons are difficult. And I'd rather have a group formed from people who specifically chose to be in the dungeon rather than people who got forced into it.

Strongly disagree. I mean, I can totally understand the 'rather have a group formed from specific type of people' approach to a vet dlc, but all this means is that you shouldn't pug or at least shouldn't pug random dungeons then. With a random, you get what you get, someone with every single dungeon achieve and someone who's never done a dungeon before are both perfectly possible and valid options. Random dungeon with a groupfinder is just as much about players of random experience and skill as it is about the dungeon itself.

I for one enjoy showing newer players the ropes, vet dlc dungeons are my favourite thing in ESO and I pug them (rather successfully, too) a lot. It adds an element of novelty and excitement in that run. Now obviously you don't have to share that sentiment, but then perhaps the 'random' part isn't for you and you may want to queue with a premade.

PeacefulAnarchy

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: »

Make 2 queues, one random non-DLC, one DLC, give each one their own separate daily reward. It will increase people in the non-DLC queue from the people who now don't queue to avoid the DLC, will add reward chasers who queue specifically for DLC dungeons to fill the DLC queue, and reduce quitting from people who don't want one or the other, and those who want both can now do both and get extra rewards. All the valuable rewards from dungeons are bound anyway, so this doesn't impact the economy at all, win-win for everyone.

That in no way addresses the problem the OP is talking about. If I don't have a sub, I can join the better reward queue and, at worst, I get an IC dungeon. Add a sub and I get, on average, a harder dungeon than the person who doesn't sub.

We need to get rid of penalties for subbing.

Yes it does. the random non-DLC queue would be exactly what the OP is asking for. Same queue for everyone regardless of DLC ownership or sub status. No penalty or advantage for anyone.

I'm simply proposing a separate daily random, in addition to that, for DLC only to help out the people queueing for specific DLC, since that seems to be the most common concern from people who oppose a non-DLC daily random rewarded queue.

Fischblut

I don't have problems with random DLC dungeons - on normal, of course.
I would never do random vet dungeon though, even if it was FG1 I only queue for specific vet dungeons (DLC or not), when I want certain achievement or monster helm.

It would be nice solution if we simply got double rewards (coffers, transmute stones, experience) for completing DLC random dungeon. This way, subscribers and people who purchased DLC dungeons would be extra rewarded, and non-subscribers or people who haven't purchased dungeon DLCs would be at some disadvantage.

For non ESO + subscribers the DLC option is already unchecked with purple rewards.

Everyone assumes that if somebody is not subscriber, they can't have DLC dungeons permanently unlocked... There are people who actually buy dungeon DLCs even without subscribing.

Zos: 'Paying customers are complaining about the length of DLC dungeons!'
Zos: 'Ok let's nerf them!'
Us : 'nooooo!'

Me: 'Yes! Nerfing difficult content is the only time I welcome nerfs'

QuebraRegra

stefj68 wrote: »

Please don't change it, it will stop 90% of the people to queue for random, and help when you are trying to grind a specific dungeon...

i remember trying to farm tzo from frostvault as a dps and wait 30-45 min between each... now if people can disable them... i will prolly wait 4 hours instead

possibly... that said, make the rewards worth the additional DLC dungeon hassle.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

QuebraRegra wrote: »

stefj68 wrote: »

Please don't change it, it will stop 90% of the people to queue for random, and help when you are trying to grind a specific dungeon...

i remember trying to farm tzo from frostvault as a dps and wait 30-45 min between each... now if people can disable them... i will prolly wait 4 hours instead

possibly... that said, make the rewards worth the additional DLC dungeon hassle.

If they arent going to split the queue (no indication they will as this topic comes up A LOT), doubling the rewards if you draw a DLC would certainly go a long way to reduce the complaining (which is justified IMO).

Iccotak

With dungeons being integrated into the year long stories it makes sense to make random queue optionally not include DLC dungeons.

On the other hand I get that the random queue was designed to encourage players to participate in all dungeons.

Perhaps people had the right idea when proposing a third medium difficulty for dlc dungeons?