[Feedback] Racial Passive update - Bosmer Stealth

BlueRaven

Ratzkifal wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

I was thinking about the new CPs a bit and the detection bonus you can find in there.
Do you think it needs to be buffed to 6m at max rank if Bosmer get their stealth back and lose detection for it?
Personally I wouldn't be getting it for any of my characters even then but maybe that is a good compromise for the people on the Dev team or whoever keeps pushing for detection.

I suppose that is reasonable. I wonder still if anyone will bother putting points into it even at 6m. It seems too small of an area.

6m would definitely be enough to notice NBs in cloak, which would expose its buggy nature. With a total of 12m of detection you are still only at half the distance of a detection potion though, so who knows.

Yeah. To me it just feels like a “Why bother?” type ability.

The thing about detection which makes it problematic to balance is;

1) It is always on compared to improved stealth which is only active when in stealth.

2) It is very specialized, it’s only used against other players in stealth, in pvp. In all of pve and in the majority of pvp it is wasted points.

3) Against a person in stealth, too small of a detection area is next to useless, too large and being always on seems too powerful. So...

Honestly, I don’t really care about the ability. I only go into pvp if I HAVE to. Otherwise, I am resentful about how big a shadow it casts over the pve part of the game. (I.E. A pvp ability being part of the wood elf racial passives.)

I just want the wood elf stealth passive returned. After that they can do what they want with detection.

Ratzkifal

BlueRaven wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

I was thinking about the new CPs a bit and the detection bonus you can find in there.
Do you think it needs to be buffed to 6m at max rank if Bosmer get their stealth back and lose detection for it?
Personally I wouldn't be getting it for any of my characters even then but maybe that is a good compromise for the people on the Dev team or whoever keeps pushing for detection.

I suppose that is reasonable. I wonder still if anyone will bother putting points into it even at 6m. It seems too small of an area.

6m would definitely be enough to notice NBs in cloak, which would expose its buggy nature. With a total of 12m of detection you are still only at half the distance of a detection potion though, so who knows.

Yeah. To me it just feels like a “Why bother?” type ability.

The thing about detection which makes it problematic to balance is;

1) It is always on compared to improved stealth which is only active when in stealth.

2) It is very specialized, it’s only used against other players in stealth, in pvp. In all of pve and in the majority of pvp it is wasted points.

3) Against a person in stealth, too small of a detection area is next to useless, too large and being always on seems too powerful. So...

Honestly, I don’t really care about the ability. I only go into pvp if I HAVE to. Otherwise, I am resentful about how big a shadow it casts over the pve part of the game. (I.E. A pvp ability being part of the wood elf racial passives.)

I just want the wood elf stealth passive returned. After that they can do what they want with detection.

I gave what you said a little more thought and came to realize that this really is the perfect place to add detection to the game.
1) and 2) sound exactly like the things you would put into the new CP sytem (and leave it there) and 3) can be balanced through opportunity cost in CP. Detection sets leave you weaker in combat because of the set bonus you give up, but in CP you can get all the bonuses you like as long as you have the budget for it. You don't even have to slot it, so you don't even give up anything important for it!
I'm going to leave some feedback in the CP thread now!

Nyteshade

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Detection Stealth is a pointless bonus. Item sets that grant detection stealth effects are considered "decon trash". People who want detection stealth so badly can already wear these sets if they want,

If stealth is as pointless as you claim, how about just giving it back to Bosmer so they don't need to rely on equipping sets to be sneaky like their lore suggests?

BEcause that slot can be utilized for a passive that serves more players. Stealth is very niche and not really needed in the game for the most part, other than entertainment value for a small number of players.

Starlight_Whisper

Ratzkifal wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

I’m glad that Argonians got their poison resistance back, but why do Bosmer have it at all??? It is against lore, even if less flagrant than their lacking any kind of improved stealth.

Bosmers are losing poison and getting disease resistantance. Much more lore appreciate.

I just logged into PTS and Bosmer do actually have both resistances. That's how I read the patch notes too. Not sure why, but I am not complaining. Let's hope they are so generous with the stealth too. :P

Yeah this thread was confusing me. It says both in the notes

Ratzkifal

Nyteshade wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Detection Stealth is a pointless bonus. Item sets that grant detection stealth effects are considered "decon trash". People who want detection stealth so badly can already wear these sets if they want,

If stealth is as pointless as you claim, how about just giving it back to Bosmer so they don't need to rely on equipping sets to be sneaky like their lore suggests?

BEcause that slot can be utilized for a passive that serves more players. Stealth is very niche and not really needed in the game for the most part, other than entertainment value for a small number of players.

"other than entertainment value" - sounds kind of important in a game that we all play for fun. ZOS even has released DLC revolving around that mechanic and these have been some of the most requested features at their time. One of Tamriel Unlimited's most prominent features was being able to steal everything now.
Also if we only ever do the thing that the most players want, then we'd never had gotten a lot beloved features, like Housing or Antiquities. PvE would have never become as big as it is now since the game used to be all about PvP. Today it would probably be PvP that would be getting removed.
So yeah, entertaining niche audiences is also very important.

weathersong

Just want to chime in with a different angle here, and I agree for the most part with the top post, but:

Bosmer's change to movement speed right now seems *really* good. Not just convenient, but strong in PvP. Couple it with Steed, a few Divines, and maybe werewolf, and you can actually hit the run speed cap without even sprinting.

Giving the Bosmer another passive that can in some situations (especially PvP) be quite strong... is maybe too much.

Detection isn't great, or at best is situational. Run speed is situational but is pretty good. I think the two balance out.

Ratzkifal

weathersong wrote: »

Just want to chime in with a different angle here, and I agree for the most part with the top post, but:

Bosmer's change to movement speed right now seems *really* good. Not just convenient, but strong in PvP. Couple it with Steed, a few Divines, and maybe werewolf, and you can actually hit the run speed cap without even sprinting.

Giving the Bosmer another passive that can in some situations (especially PvP) be quite strong... is maybe too much.

Detection isn't great, or at best is situational. Run speed is situational but is pretty good. I think the two balance out.

Some people claim that the 5% isn't even noticeable. I don't really have an opinion on that yet, since I haven't tested it enough. I would think that you do notice it. If 5% means what I think it means then you will catch up to someone using the same setup but without the 5% speed who is 10m away from you and running in the same direction in... (10/0.05) (m/(m/s)) = 200s ! That doesn't sound that strong. You'll need 20 seconds just to catch someone 1m in front of you. So maybe it really is unnoticeable. The biggest difference will probably be for crafters trying to compete with others for the same resource node! xD

Eitherway, calling stealth strong is a bit of a stretch. It's useful and fun, but I wouldn't say it's strong, not in PvP anyway. Especially since detection potions exist and Nightblades make people keep a bunch on them at all times. Although stealth helps when preparing an ambush, it doesn't help win the ambush nor does it allow to get out of the fight any easier should you get outmatched. And the times were you could use stealth to skip adds in DLC dungeons for easy speed or no-death runs have been over for a long time now.
So in that sense I don't think it would be a problem to give them stealth back because of the strength of their speed.

But it is something worth considering, so thanks for the input!

anadandy

Nyteshade wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Detection Stealth is a pointless bonus. Item sets that grant detection stealth effects are considered "decon trash". People who want detection stealth so badly can already wear these sets if they want,

If stealth is as pointless as you claim, how about just giving it back to Bosmer so they don't need to rely on equipping sets to be sneaky like their lore suggests?

BEcause that slot can be utilized for a passive that serves more players.

You mean like Detection? Which serves PVE players absolutely nothing? Useless in an entire segment of the game, that I will be bold and say is used by more players than PVP?

That argument doesn't hold up. Even if Stealth is "niche" it is useable and functions in all areas of the game. Detection has zero purpose in PVE - if anything is wasted slot, it's that.

Jaraal

weathersong wrote: »

Bosmer's change to movement speed right now seems *really* good. Not just convenient, but strong in PvP. Couple it with Steed, a few Divines, and maybe werewolf, and you can actually hit the run speed cap without even sprinting.

Giving the Bosmer another passive that can in some situations (especially PvP) be quite strong... is maybe too much.

Detection isn't great, or at best is situational. Run speed is situational but is pretty good. I think the two balance out.

I'm trying to think of where in the TES lore it says that Bosmer are 5% faster than any other race.... but I'm drawing a blank.

Pauwer

I play wood elves and the stealth dedection bonus is so "useful" that i don't see like bombers coming any better or stuff. Very good bonus... meh

Ratzkifal

Jaraal wrote: »

weathersong wrote: »

Bosmer's change to movement speed right now seems *really* good. Not just convenient, but strong in PvP. Couple it with Steed, a few Divines, and maybe werewolf, and you can actually hit the run speed cap without even sprinting.

Giving the Bosmer another passive that can in some situations (especially PvP) be quite strong... is maybe too much.

Detection isn't great, or at best is situational. Run speed is situational but is pretty good. I think the two balance out.

I'm trying to think of where in the TES lore it says that Bosmer are 5% faster than any other race.... but I'm drawing a blank.

It doesn't say that anywhere in the lore I think, but in Morrowind and Oblivion they had the highest starting speed at 50 together with Dunmer and male Argonians.
Funnily enough the only other race with a speed boost in ESO (Orcs), have been the slowest out of the races with a starting speed of 30.

Cundu_Ertur

Nyteshade wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Detection Stealth is a pointless bonus. Item sets that grant detection stealth effects are considered "decon trash". People who want detection stealth so badly can already wear these sets if they want,

If stealth is as pointless as you claim, how about just giving it back to Bosmer so they don't need to rely on equipping sets to be sneaky like their lore suggests?

BEcause that slot can be utilized for a passive that serves more players. Stealth is very niche and not really needed in the game for the most part, other than entertainment value for a small number of players.

So let's forgo the niche skill and instead keep the lore-breaking and infinitely more niche skill that doesn't even really work that well in the miniscule number of places where it is supposed to work.


uuuuuummmmmm, how about NO.

Ratzkifal

New patch tomorrow, but usually it's just bug fixes in the second week so I don't expect anything to change yet, but still, it would make my day if I'd wake up to some good news about Bosmer getting their stealth back (or any explicitly stealth related passive). So I can't help but get my hopes up and get a little excited thinking about the possibility of the Fight for our Rite being over by tomorrow afternoon or whenever that will be in your timezone.

BlueRaven

Ratzkifal wrote: »

New patch tomorrow, but usually it's just bug fixes in the second week so I don't expect anything to change yet, but still, it would make my day if I'd wake up to some good news about Bosmer getting their stealth back (or any explicitly stealth related passive). So I can't help but get my hopes up and get a little excited thinking about the possibility of the Fight for our Rite being over by tomorrow afternoon or whenever that will be in your timezone.

Agreed.

But for me this relationship with eso is on a rough road. They have basically stopped stability fixes for the Mac, and even seem to willfully ignore basic QOL fixes like controller support.

TBH, I am not expecting much.

Ratzkifal

A flash from the past! I was looking through our old thread on Bosmer stealth to look for highlights and found the comprehensive collection of arguments again that we collectively worked on. Unfortunately quoting it directly is tricky since the thread was locked eventually after 89 pages of civil and constructive discussion. I copied it all and then fixed all the links and images and had to make all the right parts bold or italic again. I also expanded the list of sources and provided insight into what source corresponds to what information.
Note this post is slightly outdated now since it was made in March 2019 but most of it is still 100% accurate. I might go over it to adjust the things that have changed in ESO since then and how things have been evolving in this PTS cycle. It's also possible there was a more up-to-date version in the old thread itself, which I haven't gotten to yet as I am only on page 44 with my search for highlights and the other highlights so far have been on page 1

Comprehensive collection of arguments against the complete removal of stealth related Bosmer passives

• We want more diverse race choices for characters that are focused on justice interactions. Having Khajiit be the only one with a sneaking advantage is very limiting.
• Stealth detect has no benefits in PvE, due to the severe lack of detectable enemies and/or objects
  
  making this an exclusively PvP oriented passive component, which is counter to the original goals (goal number 2 - universal applicability) of the racial balance change. Since stealth detection is only beneficial in PvP environments it also does not line up with the original reasoning given behind the removal of stealth - that only a player that stealths (in this case, detects other players) can benefit from this (part of the) passive. As of now, PvE players only benefit from 10% speed after dodging at the cost of three skill points and ~3.6k stamina cost, as the penetration will either be wasted due to the cap or result in a DPS loss from the lack of uptime. Returning the reduced sneak radius or a similar passive component that improves sneaking helps players across the board as everyone can choose to take advantage of that in the Overworld as well as Dungeons, Delves and PvP by making it easier to sneak past enemies or sneaking into an advantageous position to strike.
  Furthermore the additional stealth detect in PvP is not in line with existing forms of detection as it reveals cloaked enemies without an indicator. It also gives away the existence of a hidden Bosmer to other sneaking enemies as it also increases the "danger" radius with the half opened eye indicator in which enemies can tell they are about to be revealed before the sneaking Bosmer is even made aware of the existence of their sneaking enemy. These intransparent and counterintuitive issues would need to be addressed and resolved if the passive was kept in its current form, which is why we would be willing to give up this component of the passive to regain improved sneaking.
• Removing stealthiness from Bosmer breaks with tradition as every game starting with Arena described Bosmer as great sneak thieves.
  • Elder Scrolls 1 Arena
    
    
  • Elder Scrolls 2 Daggerfall
    
    
  • Elder Scrolls 3 Morrowind
    
    
  • Elder Scrolls 4 Oblivion
    
    
  • Elder Scrolls 5 Skyrim
    
    
  • Elder Scrolls Online (before Wrathstone)
    
    
• Stealth has always been an integral part of Bosmer culture and lore.
  • The Rite of Theft is a war custom of the tribal Woodelfs in which a tribe raids another to steal the valuable possessions or people for ransom. The larger the stolen object, the more prestige it has. While deaths do occur, these raids are generally not deadly due to the stealthy nature of this war custom. "Thanks to centuries of this practice, the tribal Bosmer have become legendary for their stealth" - Mistral Aurelian Teriscor
  • The Bosmer's most famous poem is called "The One Thousand Benefits of Hiding". Although we have never seen this poem, it has been mentioned several times, even within the books of ESO. Sources for this are the "Pocket Guide to the Empire, First Edition: Aldmeri Dominion", "War Customs of the Tribal Bosmer" (ESO) as well as "A Dance in Fire, Book 1". All these sources are quoting it to be the most famous poem and two of them also mention the forest-coupling ability.
  • Bosmer are known to possess an ability called "forest-coupling" that allows them to camouflage themselves in proximity to plantlife. This ability, in conjunction with being prone to desertion, is described as the reason why the Colovian armies stopped using the superior Bosmer archers in their legions after a failed experiment in the War of Rihad. It is said that "they would sometimes walk into the shade of a single tree and vanish. Their forest-coupling skills are remarkable." While this can be interpreted as exaggeration, their superior stealth still factored into them not being commonly recruited into archer regiments for the Empire. It should be considered that the Imperial Legion is one of the most tactically advanced and honed military forces in Tamriel, making them a very reliable source for information of military importance such as stealth capabilities of potential enemies or allies.
  • Sources:
    • "Right of Theft" - an ESO quest in Greenshade revolving around the Rite of Theft
    • A Merchant's Guide to Valenwood - book in ESO describing Bosmer as "being known for their thieving" and advising to keep watch on your goods even at night
    • Heroes of the Sanctuary - book in ESO, a story about how three Altmer used the Rite of Theft to get the Bosmer to allow them to found cities on Valenwood's coast
    • Valenwood: A Study - book in ESO, mentioning that the Bosmer came to be by learning stealth and cunning from their prey
    • War Customs of the Tribal Bosmer - book in ESO, that mentions the most famous Bosmer poem "Meh Ayleidion", meaning "One Thousand Benefits of Hiding"
    • Pocket Guide to the Empire, 1st Edition/Aldmeri Dominion - a paper booklet released with The Elder Scrolls Adventures: Redguard, it mentions the "Meh Ayleidion", but also describes the "forest-coupling" ability
• The emotional argument of habitute and attachement - while not a strong argument on its own when talking about delicate matters such as balance, in conjunction with the reasons given above, it adds gravity to the situation and highlights the importance of this issue.
  
  • We, the players, are not a homogenous mass and nobody can speak for the entire playerbase without needing to differentiate. Thus this may not apply for every player individually.
  • Prior to the Wrathstone release, Bosmer was not considered a "good race" in terms of combat power by most. Players who previously chose Bosmer because of stamina sustain, will continue to do so now. Players who chose Bosmer because of their looks will continue to do so now. Players who chose Bosmer for roleplaying and lore will continue to do so now. Players who previously chose Bosmer because of their improved sneaking have now either switched to Khajiit or are too attached to the characters they spent time and effort to flesh out and develop to switch off now. These players won't use their race change tokens, because changing the race, means changing everything about the character that they love. Yet, their characters lost their reason for being. When there are plenty of reasons (as seen above) for Bosmer to retain their stealthiness, then it will be difficult for these players to move on from their characters. Most of us, who still think of this as an important issue, chose the Bosmer race with the substantiated expectation that choosing Bosmer would always mean sneaking superiorly to most races. If it was merely an attachment to the stealth gameplay and not the race, then these players would have adapted and moved on already, however they would have never created a Bosmer specifically, if wanting to excel at stealth gameplay played no roll in their decision. The Wrathstone update betrayed this expectations and is making others fear that "they may be next". Instilling this kind of fear into players will ultimately drive people away and hurt the diversity of the playerbase if not harm the total numbers noticably.

The original comment can be found here at comment #1236

hakan

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Redguard is objectively the most under-powered race now.

How the turntables, huh?

Aside from that, there are too much passives to chose from for the devs. I remember Dark Elves even have stealth and speed bonus too. They just went with the most obnoxious ones i guess.. thought i still dont understand why they gave orcs and altmers spell and weapon damage.

I thought we were both efficient on both of those

Ratzkifal

hakan wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Redguard is objectively the most under-powered race now.

How the turntables, huh?

Aside from that, there are too much passives to chose from for the devs. I remember Dark Elves even have stealth and speed bonus too. They just went with the most obnoxious ones i guess.. thought i still dont understand why they gave orcs and altmers spell and weapon damage.

I thought we were both efficient on both of those

Yeah, we suggested Argonians and Dunmer getting stealth passives too at some point in our old thread. If Orcs then got detection as well then 2 out of 3 alliances would be sneaky with the last one being good at detection, which makes more sense than giving stealth and counter-stealth to the same alliance.
We also made a census on stealth/justice related boni throughout the games and while Bosmer and Khajiit lead the table, Dunmer and Argonians were definitely above average, so they deserve stealth too. Would definitely help them stand out more among Orcs and Altmer and Argonians would be the best sneak tanks.

Ratzkifal

My thoughts on the Bosmer changes in Week 1 summarized in one gif:

BlueRaven

Ratzkifal wrote: »

My thoughts on the Bosmer changes in Week 1 summarized in one gif:

(Insert gif of almost a bullseye.)

Ratzkifal

Quick reminder before the next PTS patch comes on monday that this is what a lot of Bosmer want their Hunter's Eye passive to read instead:

Bosmer

• Hunter's Eye Perfect Hunter (name pending)
  • Decreases your detection radius in Stealth by 3 meters.
  • Increases your movement speed by 5% and your Physical and Spell Penetration by 950.
• Y'ffre's Endurance (unchanged from current PTS patch)
• Resist Affliction (unchanged from current PTS patch)

That is literally all it takes to make a lot of Bosmer happy.

Cundu_Ertur

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Quick reminder before the next PTS patch comes on monday that this is what a lot of Bosmer want their Hunter's Eye passive to read instead:

Bosmer

• Hunter's Eye Perfect Hunter (name pending)
  • Decreases your detection radius in Stealth by 3 meters.
  • Increases your movement speed by 5% and your Physical and Spell Penetration by 950.
• Y'ffre's Endurance (unchanged from current PTS patch)
• Resist Affliction (unchanged from current PTS patch)

That is literally all it takes to make a lot of Bosmer happy.

I dunno. I have a lot of extra money to spend on other things for so long as they keep denying Bosmer their proper heritage. No sub, no new chapters -- it adds up to a fair bit of coin. I could get the Mass Effect remaster, or the new Horizon game if I don't spend money here. Actually, I can swing both. And maybe a few others besides. So if they did this, and let's be honest -- they won't*, then I'd end up throwing a wad of cash at this game and have to forgo other games.

*In two years they have yet to even acknowledge that they screwed this up. They still apparently think that Detection is the greatest thing since sliced bread and can't understand why we could reject it.

Ratzkifal

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Quick reminder before the next PTS patch comes on monday that this is what a lot of Bosmer want their Hunter's Eye passive to read instead:

Bosmer

• Hunter's Eye Perfect Hunter (name pending)
  • Decreases your detection radius in Stealth by 3 meters.
  • Increases your movement speed by 5% and your Physical and Spell Penetration by 950.
• Y'ffre's Endurance (unchanged from current PTS patch)
• Resist Affliction (unchanged from current PTS patch)

That is literally all it takes to make a lot of Bosmer happy.

I dunno. I have a lot of extra money to spend on other things for so long as they keep denying Bosmer their proper heritage. No sub, no new chapters -- it adds up to a fair bit of coin. I could get the Mass Effect remaster, or the new Horizon game if I don't spend money here. Actually, I can swing both. And maybe a few others besides. So if they did this, and let's be honest -- they won't*, then I'd end up throwing a wad of cash at this game and have to forgo other games.

*In two years they have yet to even acknowledge that they screwed this up. They still apparently think that Detection is the greatest thing since sliced bread and can't understand why we could reject it.

I gotta be honest, I haven't spend nearly as much time on my Bosmer in the last 2 years as before. My crown poison count from daily log in rewards has grown to almost 5000 because if I don't play my Bosmer, I am not using those up anymore.
Haven't had ESO+ since Wrathstone except for free trials or codes I won on twitch. I bought Elsweyr when it looked like they were getting back on track with balance and performance, but Scalebreaker proved that was a mistake. I am proud to have not spent any money on Greymoor (although I won it in a giveaway on Twitch, so ZOS paid for it) and all the DLCs I bought with my leftover crowns from before (aka the ones they already got the cash for).

I am buying Blackwood, possibly even the collectors edition, the day the patch that gives Bosmer back their stealth goes live! Because I actually liked that game a lot when I wasn't reminded almost every day that the reason I made this character for doesn't exist anymore.
You've done right by Argonians ZOS, now please also do right by us Bosmer. It's been two years and you are changing the racial passives again. The lore is crystal clear on this. Buff detection in CP if you feel like it's not accessible enough, just let us have our stealth back - it means a lot to us.

BlueRaven

So, no race modifications/updates at all on the pts (6.3.2). If this was any other game I would say it’s highly disappointing, but I doubt they read anything on these forums anyway.

Ratzkifal

BlueRaven wrote: »

So, no race modifications/updates at all on the pts (6.3.2). If this was any other game I would say it’s highly disappointing, but I doubt they read anything on these forums anyway.

Well, that they didn't even bother with creating an official racial passive feedback thread already tells you a lot.

Their infallible set bonus efficiency standards are obviously already perfect and there is no way anyone could ever have anything constructive to say on the topic. They all have the same budget, so they must be balanced already, because that's how balance was defined.
Identity? Lore? What's that? Whatever it is, it is none of the concerns of the Combat team. /s

QuebraRegra

Jaraal wrote: »

weathersong wrote: »

Bosmer's change to movement speed right now seems *really* good. Not just convenient, but strong in PvP. Couple it with Steed, a few Divines, and maybe werewolf, and you can actually hit the run speed cap without even sprinting.

Giving the Bosmer another passive that can in some situations (especially PvP) be quite strong... is maybe too much.

Detection isn't great, or at best is situational. Run speed is situational but is pretty good. I think the two balance out.

I'm trying to think of where in the TES lore it says that Bosmer are 5% faster than any other race.... but I'm drawing a blank.

BOSMER had a max start bonus to speed stat in MORROWIND (and OBLIVION)
https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Bosmer_(Morrowind)

anadandy

Ratzkifal wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

So, no race modifications/updates at all on the pts (6.3.2). If this was any other game I would say it’s highly disappointing, but I doubt they read anything on these forums anyway.

Well, that they didn't even bother with creating an official racial passive feedback thread already tells you a lot.

They never even acknowledged the problem with original change. That also tells us a lot. Apparently they're totally cool with robbing Bosmer of their identity and giving them a broken passive that only (kinda) works in one segment of the game.

BlueRaven

Ratzkifal wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

So, no race modifications/updates at all on the pts (6.3.2). If this was any other game I would say it’s highly disappointing, but I doubt they read anything on these forums anyway.

Well, that they didn't even bother with creating an official racial passive feedback thread already tells you a lot.

Their infallible set bonus efficiency standards are obviously already perfect and there is no way anyone could ever have anything constructive to say on the topic. They all have the same budget, so they must be balanced already, because that's how balance was defined.
Identity? Lore? What's that? Whatever it is, it is none of the concerns of the Combat team. /s

Yeah. The whole thing is just depressing.

Jaraal

anadandy wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

So, no race modifications/updates at all on the pts (6.3.2). If this was any other game I would say it’s highly disappointing, but I doubt they read anything on these forums anyway.

Well, that they didn't even bother with creating an official racial passive feedback thread already tells you a lot.

They never even acknowledged the problem with original change. That also tells us a lot. Apparently they're totally cool with robbing Bosmer of their identity and giving them a broken passive that only (kinda) works in one segment of the game.

When the changes first dropped on test, they stated "we've heard the concerns from the community," so ignorance is not an excuse. They just threw 20 years of Bosmer lore under the bus on a whim. The fact that they traded it for a passive that only works (by jeopardizing hidden Bosmers) in PvP and is worthless to the majority of the player base is just rubbing salt in the wound.

Ratzkifal

i

BlueRaven wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

So, no race modifications/updates at all on the pts (6.3.2). If this was any other game I would say it’s highly disappointing, but I doubt they read anything on these forums anyway.

Well, that they didn't even bother with creating an official racial passive feedback thread already tells you a lot.

Their infallible set bonus efficiency standards are obviously already perfect and there is no way anyone could ever have anything constructive to say on the topic. They all have the same budget, so they must be balanced already, because that's how balance was defined.
Identity? Lore? What's that? Whatever it is, it is none of the concerns of the Combat team. /s

Yeah. The whole thing is just depressing.

I'm trying to cheer myself up by reminding myself that I can at least do thievery content again without needing special gear.
So far it hasn't worked for me. The change hasn't resolved our issue yet, but at least there was an improvement on that front.

I still think it would be the best call to make the Detection passive in CP twice as effective for the amount of CP spent and replace Bosmer detection with stealth again.

BlueRaven

At this point I am even wondering if they read the “pts” section at all, much less this thread. The only place where you see actual responses is on pvp threads.
These forums feel mostly meaningless.