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PvP Tierlist for Markarth
BohnT2
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2020 is almost over and with Markarth being out for almost 2 months now it's time to publish the PvP class tierlist for the current patch:
As always our Tierlist comes with further explanations and details for all specs and for this patch I want to explicitly point out the disclaimer on this page.
When comparing this list to all previous ones, something stands out and that is the "downfall" of one of our overlords, stamina necromancer, that had installed a reign of terror along side its flowery but not less evil twin the stamina warden for almost one and a half year now.
A big reason for this has been the changes to the buff system.
Stamina necromancer combined some of the most powerful offensive and defensive major buffs and debuffs in its toolkit which gave it a big advantage over its competitors.
The current patch is a perfect fit for how the year 2020 went, many things have been thrown around and trusted state of affairs got lost, magicka necromancer finds itself right below the top of a list that it has always finished last since it has been introduced.
Magicka Warden which has been seen as a mediocre spec is now on the same level as its stamina counterparts.
Knowledgeable players have stated how every single magicka class is better than their stamina brethren.
How could this happen with almost no direct class changes and a big rework that should have affected both sides more or less the same?
Well the answer has been plaguing PvP since Greymoor: Proc sets.
More notably the vateshran destruction staff along with some nerfs and bug fixes for stamina proc sets.
This has led to the situation that the offensive toolkit of a class has way less effect on where it'll find itself on the list, what matters this patch is how your defensive toolkit looks like and how good you can stack HP and preferably benefit from that, like warden does with Arctic blast.
The effects on the meta are so powerful that we have actually considered making a proc set tier list rather than a class tier list, because procs are what define your viability this patch, your class is just the hollow envelope you fit onto them.
With these words I'll finish the rant and give you the option to discuss what you think about the Tierlist.
In the name of everyone who worked on the Tierlist, we want to wish you a happy New Year and hopefully a more interesting PvP meta in 2021.
Edited by BohnT2 on January 1, 2021 2:50PM As always our Tierlist comes with further explanations and details for all specs and for this patch I want to explicitly point out the disclaimer on this page.
When comparing this list to all previous ones, something stands out and that is the "downfall" of one of our overlords, stamina necromancer, that had installed a reign of terror along side its flowery but not less evil twin the stamina warden for almost one and a half year now.
A big reason for this has been the changes to the buff system.
Stamina necromancer combined some of the most powerful offensive and defensive major buffs and debuffs in its toolkit which gave it a big advantage over its competitors.
The current patch is a perfect fit for how the year 2020 went, many things have been thrown around and trusted state of affairs got lost, magicka necromancer finds itself right below the top of a list that it has always finished last since it has been introduced.
Magicka Warden which has been seen as a mediocre spec is now on the same level as its stamina counterparts.
Knowledgeable players have stated how every single magicka class is better than their stamina brethren.
How could this happen with almost no direct class changes and a big rework that should have affected both sides more or less the same?
Well the answer has been plaguing PvP since Greymoor: Proc sets.
More notably the vateshran destruction staff along with some nerfs and bug fixes for stamina proc sets.
This has led to the situation that the offensive toolkit of a class has way less effect on where it'll find itself on the list, what matters this patch is how your defensive toolkit looks like and how good you can stack HP and preferably benefit from that, like warden does with Arctic blast.
The effects on the meta are so powerful that we have actually considered making a proc set tier list rather than a class tier list, because procs are what define your viability this patch, your class is just the hollow envelope you fit onto them.
With these words I'll finish the rant and give you the option to discuss what you think about the Tierlist.
In the name of everyone who worked on the Tierlist, we want to wish you a happy New Year and hopefully a more interesting PvP meta in 2021.
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Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nice work.The effects on the meta are so powerful that we have actually considered making a proc set tier list rather than a class tier list, because procs are what define your viability this patch, your class is just the hallow envelope you fit onto them.
That would be interesting to read, please do make such a list. Pardon the pedantry but the English word you're looking for is probably "hollow" (cognate "hohl") rather than "hallow" (cognate "heilig"), but for those of us stuck on the lower classes indeed we regard them as hallow, or more precisely "hallowed".
Edited by Urzigurumash on December 31, 2020 5:15AMXbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast4 -
techyeshic✭✭✭✭✭I was looking at the list and I was thinking "Oh. This has to be with how they can utilize proc sets." Previous trash tier with good defenses move up. good offensive toolkits with poor defenses moved down. Its terribly obvious.0
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wheem_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I suppose these mythical "S Tier for BGs" Magicka Necromancers must only exist on EU. Other than myself, I barely even see any on PC-NA, and I certainly wouldn't put them anywhere near the equal of Stamina Warden, Stamina Sorcerer, etc...even in the hands of a solid player. Perhaps there are some secret builds that I've never seen anyone run properly, but generally speaking they're just a noticeably worse/buggier version of Magicka Warden. In theory, that's not a bad position to be in, but in my experience the gap between the two is pretty large.4 -
Mojomonkeyman✭✭✭✭✭
✭Who are those mysterious A-Tier magicka necromancers solo roaming PC EU no cp cyro with more success than nightblades and magsorcs? I certainly havent met any, but maybe im just out of touch with the 1vX meta?
The rating of nocp solo magplar is also quite funny...
That list seems weird.Koma Grey, Chocolate Thunder, Little Mojo, Dagoth Mojo & Mojomancy6 -
Weesacs✭✭✭✭Silly question, but does this list only take class skills into consideration and not how well a class utilises weapon skills?High Elf Templar
PS4 - EU - DC
Over 37,500 Achievements!1 -
Ryuvain✭✭✭✭✭
✭So basically we all should play warden or necro? Funny how magplar is up there too. Pretty similar meta but magcro is the only difference.That one khajiit obsessed with werewolf behemoth and vampire lord. Lady Thorn is bae, dont @ me.
Werewolf behemoth=vampire lord>blood scion>werewolf>vampire.1 -
Thraben✭✭✭✭✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Who are those mysterious A-Tier magicka necromancers solo roaming PC EU no cp cyro with more success than nightblades and magsorcs? I certainly havent met any, but maybe im just out of touch with the 1vX meta?
That list seems weird.
I guess it's the pact players who haven't realized that Vateshran-Mist-Zaan-Crimson-Necrolord/Vamplord - builds would maybe even able to kill stuff if they'd do it on MagDK.
A MagNecro can never be as good as a StamNecro in solo play because he lacks an execute and mobility. No one prevents you from using Zaan and Vateshran- Destrostaff on a Stamina class.Hauptmann der Dolche des Königs
DDK ist die letzte Verteidigungslinie des Dolchsturz- Bündnisses auf der 30-Tage-No-CP- Kampagne(EU) mit dem Anspruch, in kleinen, anfängerfreundlichen Raid-Gruppen möglichst epische Schlachten auszufechten.
DDK is the Daggerfall Covenant´s last line of defense on the 30 days no-cp campaign (EU). We intend to fight epic battles in small, casual player friendly raid groups.2 -
BohnT2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Silly question, but does this list only take class skills into consideration and not how well a class utilises weapon skills?
For the final ranking on the tierlist, every tool a spec has access to is considered be it class skills, weapon/other skills, sets or like this patch bugs that hinder or enhance the performance of the individual specs.0 -
BohnT2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Who are those mysterious A-Tier magicka necromancers solo roaming PC EU no cp cyro with more success than nightblades and magsorcs? I certainly havent met any, but maybe im just out of touch with the 1vX meta?
The rating of nocp solo magplar is also quite funny...
That list seems weird.
Two players you might know are Strepsels or Heresyall who both play Magnecro incredibly well in no cp, 1vX has seen some big changes with the high useage of procs and HP pools steadily going up.
The magplar rating is based on a "new" build that has started to spread which makes Magplar really strong in no cp0 -
Husan✭✭✭✭✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Who are those mysterious A-Tier magicka necromancers solo roaming PC EU no cp cyro with more success than nightblades and magsorcs? I certainly havent met any, but maybe im just out of touch with the 1vX meta?
The rating of nocp solo magplar is also quite funny...
That list seems weird.
Two players you might know are Strepsels or Heresyall who both play Magnecro incredibly well in no cp, 1vX has seen some big changes with the high useage of procs and HP pools steadily going up.
The magplar rating is based on a "new" build that has started to spread which makes Magplar really strong in no cp
Can you tell me more about this "new" magplar build? I was looking for a reason to respec into magicka again after a long time
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BohnT2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Husan @Afterip
As all viable builds in no cp it's focused on procs along with using malacath while also utilizing high health recovery and mistform.
I won't go into great detail as people are rather conservative about sharing their full build detail but I'll give you the outlines:
2pc monsterset 2pc destro staff and a heavy set along with malacath.
And just like it has been the in the old days, this magplar got beams but those ones aren't holy.
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Ariades_swe✭✭✭✭✭
https://youtu.be/QpqE7Lgc1u4
Kinda interesting tier list since this guy puts sdk at top while yours put them at bottom.Edited by Ariades_swe on December 31, 2020 2:03PM1 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
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The thing is, even if they share their build, you're more playing a combination of proc sets than a magplar. I'm not sure if that will make you feel better about the class, but speaking for myself, it doesn't.
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Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »
The thing is, even if they share their build, you're more playing a combination of proc sets than a magplar. I'm not sure if that will make you feel better about the class, but speaking for myself, it doesn't.
This. And it seems this is how mag necro got so high3 -
BohnT2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »
The thing is, even if they share their build, you're more playing a combination of proc sets than a magplar. I'm not sure if that will make you feel better about the class, but speaking for myself, it doesn't.
As stated in the Disclaimer and in my rant, we're all playing the proc class with little class skills sprinkled upon it.3 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »
The thing is, even if they share their build, you're more playing a combination of proc sets than a magplar. I'm not sure if that will make you feel better about the class, but speaking for myself, it doesn't.
This. And it seems this is how mag necro got so high
All are a variation of @Waffennacht 's Abomination build....vateshran destro/zaan/malacath insert 5 piece proc set of your choice.
Scratches head...I still don't see how Magcro gets so far up unless it is the healing potential . If I do the same build on sorc, massively higher mobility, CC, way higher health/health regen, better health based heal...Warden is no question the master of that build.
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HankTwo✭✭✭✭✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Who are those mysterious A-Tier magicka necromancers solo roaming PC EU no cp cyro with more success than nightblades and magsorcs? I certainly havent met any, but maybe im just out of touch with the 1vX meta?
The rating of nocp solo magplar is also quite funny...
That list seems weird.
Two players you might know are Strepsels or Heresyall who both play Magnecro incredibly well in no cp, 1vX has seen some big changes with the high useage of procs and HP pools steadily going up.
The magplar rating is based on a "new" build that has started to spread which makes Magplar really strong in no cp
Can you tell me more about this "new" magplar build? I was looking for a reason to respec into magicka again after a long time
2 piece zaan + vate destro frontbar + 1 piece malacath + your health regen set of choice (orgnums, alessia, beekeeper, eternal vigor, ... a set like orgnum you can also easily backbar) + whatever combination of trainee, endurance and willpower you prefer (for max defense 3 piece endurance + 1 piece trainee).
Be a low stage vamp with infused cost reduction on the jewelry and maybe steed mundus for some extra mobility and even more health regen. Potion with health effect and maybe repentance on the backbar for high health regen multipliers.
Results in a build with around 3k - 5k health regen in no CP and a mistform that costs less than 100 mag per second (with rune focus, heavy armor passives and magicka steal such a build can generate much more mag in mistform than what it costs). Only real counters are negate and oblivion damage, other than that a build like this is pretty much unkillable in a 1v1 since well rounded PvP builds cant sustain the damage required to outdamage the health regen in mistform (as the attacker you can try to damage through the mistform but this will just result in you spending a *** ton of resources while the mistform build regains mag + stam and potentially even health, which opens you up for counter attacks).
Gameplay is pretty much apply zaan and vateshran and go full ham while zaan is connected, if that fails to kill your opponent camp in mistform (while ideally always keeping vate destro up) until zaan cd is down, then try again (if outnumbered you can even kill weaker opponents with just zaan + vate while facehugging them in mistform).
Tbh I hope ZOS nerfs this next patch (including all other forms of proc tanks).PC EU
Stam DK, Magden, Magplar, Stamcro, Hybrid Sorc, Magblade & Mag DK13 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Who are those mysterious A-Tier magicka necromancers solo roaming PC EU no cp cyro with more success than nightblades and magsorcs? I certainly havent met any, but maybe im just out of touch with the 1vX meta?
The rating of nocp solo magplar is also quite funny...
That list seems weird.
Two players you might know are Strepsels or Heresyall who both play Magnecro incredibly well in no cp, 1vX has seen some big changes with the high useage of procs and HP pools steadily going up.
The magplar rating is based on a "new" build that has started to spread which makes Magplar really strong in no cp
Can you tell me more about this "new" magplar build? I was looking for a reason to respec into magicka again after a long time
2 piece zaan + vate destro frontbar + 1 piece malacath + your health regen set of choice (orgnums, alessia, beekeeper, eternal vigor, ... a set like orgnum you can also easily backbar) + whatever combination of trainee, endurance and willpower you prefer (for max defense 3 piece endurance + 1 piece trainee).
Be a low stage vamp with infused cost reduction on the jewelry and maybe steed mundus for some extra mobility and even more health regen. Potion with health effect and maybe repentance on the backbar for high health regen multipliers.
Results in a build with around 3k - 5k health regen in no CP and a mistform that costs less than 100 mag per second (with rune focus, heavy armor passives and magicka steal such a build can generate much more mag in mistform than what it costs). Only real counters are negate and oblivion damage, other than that a build like this is pretty much unkillable in a 1v1 since well rounded PvP builds cant sustain the damage required to outdamage the health regen in mistform (as the attacker you can try to damage through the mistform but this will just result in you spending a *** ton of resources while the mistform build regains mag + stam and potentially even health, which opens you up for counter attacks).
Gameplay is pretty much apply zaan and vateshran and go full ham while zaan is connected, if that fails to kill your opponent camp in mistform (while ideally always keeping vate destro up) until zaan cd is down, then try again (if outnumbered you can even kill weaker opponents with just zaan + vate while facehugging them in mistform).
Tbh I hope ZOS nerfs this next patch (including all other forms of proc tanks).
You can do similar stuff on Stam too, cna even throw in seventh so your healing goes up along with hp recov.
Frankly health Recovery has been defo over buffed over the last few updates, it takes far less effort to reach high values than ever before.1 -
HankTwo✭✭✭✭✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Who are those mysterious A-Tier magicka necromancers solo roaming PC EU no cp cyro with more success than nightblades and magsorcs? I certainly havent met any, but maybe im just out of touch with the 1vX meta?
The rating of nocp solo magplar is also quite funny...
That list seems weird.
Two players you might know are Strepsels or Heresyall who both play Magnecro incredibly well in no cp, 1vX has seen some big changes with the high useage of procs and HP pools steadily going up.
The magplar rating is based on a "new" build that has started to spread which makes Magplar really strong in no cp
Can you tell me more about this "new" magplar build? I was looking for a reason to respec into magicka again after a long time
2 piece zaan + vate destro frontbar + 1 piece malacath + your health regen set of choice (orgnums, alessia, beekeeper, eternal vigor, ... a set like orgnum you can also easily backbar) + whatever combination of trainee, endurance and willpower you prefer (for max defense 3 piece endurance + 1 piece trainee).
Be a low stage vamp with infused cost reduction on the jewelry and maybe steed mundus for some extra mobility and even more health regen. Potion with health effect and maybe repentance on the backbar for high health regen multipliers.
Results in a build with around 3k - 5k health regen in no CP and a mistform that costs less than 100 mag per second (with rune focus, heavy armor passives and magicka steal such a build can generate much more mag in mistform than what it costs). Only real counters are negate and oblivion damage, other than that a build like this is pretty much unkillable in a 1v1 since well rounded PvP builds cant sustain the damage required to outdamage the health regen in mistform (as the attacker you can try to damage through the mistform but this will just result in you spending a *** ton of resources while the mistform build regains mag + stam and potentially even health, which opens you up for counter attacks).
Gameplay is pretty much apply zaan and vateshran and go full ham while zaan is connected, if that fails to kill your opponent camp in mistform (while ideally always keeping vate destro up) until zaan cd is down, then try again (if outnumbered you can even kill weaker opponents with just zaan + vate while facehugging them in mistform).
Tbh I hope ZOS nerfs this next patch (including all other forms of proc tanks).
You can do similar stuff on Stam too, cna even throw in seventh so your healing goes up along with hp recov.
Frankly health Recovery has been defo over buffed over the last few updates, it takes far less effort to reach high values than ever before.
Fully agree, the combination of some new or buffed health recovery sets (mentioned earlier) and the buffs to recovery passives (minor now 20%, major now 40%) makes health regen overall too strong in PvP and it is definitely one of the main culprits that allow proc tanks to work so well defensively (together with health-based heals and/or certain mitigation tools like mistform).
Edit: Just wanted to add that mistform is still a rather special case. The extra mitigation means that your 'effective health regen' is essentially quadrupled, since an attacker would need 4 times the dps to outdamage the health regen compared to outside of mistform.Edited by HankTwo on December 31, 2020 5:09PMPC EU
Stam DK, Magden, Magplar, Stamcro, Hybrid Sorc, Magblade & Mag DK2 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Who are those mysterious A-Tier magicka necromancers solo roaming PC EU no cp cyro with more success than nightblades and magsorcs? I certainly havent met any, but maybe im just out of touch with the 1vX meta?
The rating of nocp solo magplar is also quite funny...
That list seems weird.
Two players you might know are Strepsels or Heresyall who both play Magnecro incredibly well in no cp, 1vX has seen some big changes with the high useage of procs and HP pools steadily going up.
The magplar rating is based on a "new" build that has started to spread which makes Magplar really strong in no cp
Can you tell me more about this "new" magplar build? I was looking for a reason to respec into magicka again after a long time
2 piece zaan + vate destro frontbar + 1 piece malacath + your health regen set of choice (orgnums, alessia, beekeeper, eternal vigor, ... a set like orgnum you can also easily backbar) + whatever combination of trainee, endurance and willpower you prefer (for max defense 3 piece endurance + 1 piece trainee).
Be a low stage vamp with infused cost reduction on the jewelry and maybe steed mundus for some extra mobility and even more health regen. Potion with health effect and maybe repentance on the backbar for high health regen multipliers.
Results in a build with around 3k - 5k health regen in no CP and a mistform that costs less than 100 mag per second (with rune focus, heavy armor passives and magicka steal such a build can generate much more mag in mistform than what it costs). Only real counters are negate and oblivion damage, other than that a build like this is pretty much unkillable in a 1v1 since well rounded PvP builds cant sustain the damage required to outdamage the health regen in mistform (as the attacker you can try to damage through the mistform but this will just result in you spending a *** ton of resources while the mistform build regains mag + stam and potentially even health, which opens you up for counter attacks).
Gameplay is pretty much apply zaan and vateshran and go full ham while zaan is connected, if that fails to kill your opponent camp in mistform (while ideally always keeping vate destro up) until zaan cd is down, then try again (if outnumbered you can even kill weaker opponents with just zaan + vate while facehugging them in mistform).
Tbh I hope ZOS nerfs this next patch (including all other forms of proc tanks).
You can do similar stuff on Stam too, cna even throw in seventh so your healing goes up along with hp recov.
Frankly health Recovery has been defo over buffed over the last few updates, it takes far less effort to reach high values than ever before.
Fully agree, the combination of some new or buffed health recovery sets (mentioned earlier) and the buffs to recovery passives (minor now 20%, major now 40%) makes health regen overall too strong in PvP and it is definitely one of the main culprits that allow proc tanks to work so well defensively (together with health-based heals and/or certain mitigation tools like mistform).
Don't forget the nerfing of defile.3 -
Bergzorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Gameplay is pretty much apply zaan and vateshran and go full ham while zaan is connected, if that fails to kill your opponent camp in mistform (while ideally always keeping vate destro up) until zaan cd is down, then try again (if outnumbered you can even kill weaker opponents with just zaan + vate while facehugging them in mistform).
Tbh I hope ZOS nerfs this next patch (including all other forms of proc tanks).
And here I was, thinking the proc META can't get much worse than it already is. But this brings it to a whole new level of fuckupery.no CP PvP PC/EU
EP Zergborn
DC Zerg Beacon
guild master, raid leader, janitor, and only member of Zergbored0 -
Josira✭✭✭✭Lmao Mag Necro A tier for solo play?
Yeet that stuff right into Brazil tier, you cant see it,but its right below D...a bit past where F would be if F rank was a thing on this tier list.
Mag Necro's in my opinion make great pvp healers and support, definitely A rank in group play when built to support or heal. Solo they are perhaps the worst. maybe more so then Mag Nightblade. its a toss up between those two. but ive made glass cannon Mag Nightblades work.
If we are taking Procs into consideration,any class can do better with the same gear. you may loose out on the extra tankiness,but overall damage would increase drastically."BlooD FReNZy TicKS aLL thE BoXes of WhaT iT mEanS tO bE a VaMpiRe"6
