ZOS please consider dissolving ball groups

Ackwalan

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

A ball group is just a moving front of mobile aoe dps. If you really wanted to get rid of ball groups the only logical ability to negate their power is to not stack mobile aoe dps. Meaning the highest dps would be the only one effecting the enemy or aoe dps remains at the spot it was triggered. Can't stack mobile aoe dps, the real power of the ball disappears. Of course this would lead to an even greater imbalance of the unkillable solo players who no longer have to worry about you stacking mobile aoe dps on them... and the forums would be salty of all the folks that enjoyed the stacking of mobile aoe dps.

I've said it before. The problem of ball groups was accidently fixed years ago when there was a siege bug. The ball groups stayed away until that bug was fixed.

Satiar

Ackwalan wrote: »

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

A ball group is just a moving front of mobile aoe dps. If you really wanted to get rid of ball groups the only logical ability to negate their power is to not stack mobile aoe dps. Meaning the highest dps would be the only one effecting the enemy or aoe dps remains at the spot it was triggered. Can't stack mobile aoe dps, the real power of the ball disappears. Of course this would lead to an even greater imbalance of the unkillable solo players who no longer have to worry about you stacking mobile aoe dps on them... and the forums would be salty of all the folks that enjoyed the stacking of mobile aoe dps.

I've said it before. The problem of ball groups was accidently fixed years ago when there was a siege bug. The ball groups stayed away until that bug was fixed.

Nope, we were still there. Just screamed a lot in voice comms.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Ackwalan wrote: »

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

A ball group is just a moving front of mobile aoe dps. If you really wanted to get rid of ball groups the only logical ability to negate their power is to not stack mobile aoe dps. Meaning the highest dps would be the only one effecting the enemy or aoe dps remains at the spot it was triggered. Can't stack mobile aoe dps, the real power of the ball disappears. Of course this would lead to an even greater imbalance of the unkillable solo players who no longer have to worry about you stacking mobile aoe dps on them... and the forums would be salty of all the folks that enjoyed the stacking of mobile aoe dps.

I've said it before. The problem of ball groups was accidently fixed years ago when there was a siege bug. The ball groups stayed away until that bug was fixed.

Actually for Drac at least the siege bug times were really fun made people feel really useful in raid. We were also fighting the 70m Aotp groups back when crow was leading was really good for both sides.

ragnarok6644b14_ESO

I have a dilemma with ball groups.

On one hand, I think teamwork like that should be OP. Teamwork is awesome and should be rewarded.

On the other hand, they are simply unfun to play against.

Yes I know I could make it more fun by 'gitting gud' and forming my own counter-ball group, but I lack the time, energy, and skills to do so.

I do think people who can (or would rather) only get on for primetime (that's why primetime is primetime after all) should still be able to have a fun experience in Cyrodiil. They shouldn't have to learn the social skills or use the data analysis they do for work or whatever to enjoy the game.

Fighting against a ballgroup is unfun, flat. I am bringing a work buddy to ESO because he likes the idea of the PVP system I talked to him about, and I am HORRIFIED of when he gets high enough to show up in Cyrodiil. It's just suffering if a ball group is on. Your options are:

1) ignore them (and lose the objective)
2) die a lot (and lose the objective)
3) develop through lots of pain and effort and time investment your own ball group

Kwoung

ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »

I have a dilemma with ball groups.

On one hand, I think teamwork like that should be OP. Teamwork is awesome and should be rewarded.

On the other hand, they are simply unfun to play against.

Yes I know I could make it more fun by 'gitting gud' and forming my own counter-ball group, but I lack the time, energy, and skills to do so.

I do think people who can (or would rather) only get on for primetime (that's why primetime is primetime after all) should still be able to have a fun experience in Cyrodiil. They shouldn't have to learn the social skills or use the data analysis they do for work or whatever to enjoy the game.

Fighting against a ballgroup is unfun, flat. I am bringing a work buddy to ESO because he likes the idea of the PVP system I talked to him about, and I am HORRIFIED of when he gets high enough to show up in Cyrodiil. It's just suffering if a ball group is on. Your options are:

1) ignore them (and lose the objective)
2) die a lot (and lose the objective)
3) develop through lots of pain and effort and time investment your own ball group

Look at them like a Vet DLC Trial boss, those are pretty unfun as well if you can't manage to pull 65K+ DPS and your healers/tanks know what they are doing. You are just banging your head against a wall if your group isn't good enough. Cyro is a pretty big place with lots of AP everywhere for the taking, no reason to go head to head with content you aren't ready for yet, just like the rest of the game.

Berenhir

Even if all the hardcore carry features ZOS keeps introducing like Earthgore, necro resurrection, harmony, RR stacks or VD were taken away, organized groups would still beat unorganized groups.

I never heard people complain that their 12-player group cannot kill the other 12-player group they encountered unless it is a pick-up group. At least not resulting in the demand for nerfs as any decent group would just try to improve their own gameplay.

Even if you would happen to be a decent player - which most forum complainers on that specific topic are not - chances are high that those people you play with are in fact just absolutely useless in doing anything but zerging people down.

Ball groups are built to counter the zerg, so they are specifically built to destroy unorganized other groups.

Good ball groups can go toe to toe with the faction zerg, the better ones can face the whole server. The best ball groups win against everything Cyrodiil can throw at them including enemy small scale or ball group bomb attempts while being zerged and getting sieged Verdun-style.

As a theorycrafter myself, I for example specifically designed a whole raid with bespoken builds for the people I used to play with to be able to mow down everything during MYM as I just wanted to slaughter people by the hundreds and thousands for fun when I log on.

If you cannot do that because you lack knowledge or skill or halfway decent people who follow you, why do you complain? Just don't engage ball groups then and be done with the problem.

badmojo

If its all skill and organization that make ball groups so much better than us filthy zerg surfing pugs, then why get defensive about things remaining group only?

I have no issues with groups being organized, is the game mechanics that reward people with chevrons above their heads with special powers... like purge. That one ability alone is extremely strong, so why are you highly skilled groups so happy that nobody gets it but you?

ragnarok6644b14_ESO

Kwoung wrote: »

ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »

I have a dilemma with ball groups.

On one hand, I think teamwork like that should be OP. Teamwork is awesome and should be rewarded.

On the other hand, they are simply unfun to play against.

Yes I know I could make it more fun by 'gitting gud' and forming my own counter-ball group, but I lack the time, energy, and skills to do so.

I do think people who can (or would rather) only get on for primetime (that's why primetime is primetime after all) should still be able to have a fun experience in Cyrodiil. They shouldn't have to learn the social skills or use the data analysis they do for work or whatever to enjoy the game.

Fighting against a ballgroup is unfun, flat. I am bringing a work buddy to ESO because he likes the idea of the PVP system I talked to him about, and I am HORRIFIED of when he gets high enough to show up in Cyrodiil. It's just suffering if a ball group is on. Your options are:

1) ignore them (and lose the objective)
2) die a lot (and lose the objective)
3) develop through lots of pain and effort and time investment your own ball group

Look at them like a Vet DLC Trial boss, those are pretty unfun as well if you can't manage to pull 65K+ DPS and your healers/tanks know what they are doing. You are just banging your head against a wall if your group isn't good enough. Cyro is a pretty big place with lots of AP everywhere for the taking, no reason to go head to head with content you aren't ready for yet, just like the rest of the game.

There is a big problem here - in PVE I can choose to willingly not do this content and still have fun. In PVP, I can't not fight the ball group - I mean, I guess I could but if they are after your factions objectives then you lose all your keeps.

Being gated isn't fun either, and a truly hateful ball group could keep you gated as long as they pleased for giggles or whatever.

Ofc the option not to play content still exists - after all, "don't play Cyrodiil" is roughly equivalent to "don't play vet BRP" but I am not sure you really want to say "gtfo noob" to anyone not in a ball group.

If I don't want to fight a Vet Raid Boss, there is still plenty of PVE content I can enjoy. The 3 other PVP options are:
1) BGs with its own toxic meta and entirely different game modes, builds, etc.
2) Imperial City, which can also have ball groups and is mostly PVE.
3) Duels which are also not even remotely the same as Cyrodiil.

NotTaylorSwift

“It’s unfun to play against” yes maybe for some people. But for almost every small scale or solo player it is also unfun to find a good number of enemies to fight only to be steamrolled by the main zerg 2 minutes later as they run to the next keep. Just like us ballgroups are the unfun part of cyro for you, you are also the unfun part of cyro for many other players. You just don’t hear them voicing it on the forums. No one comes to the forums to yell “disband zergs, they kill me while I play small scale”.

It’s not the fault of ballgroups that zerg players don’t know how to deal with them. There are tools already in the game that counter ball groups (which don’t include making your own ball group like many are saying), people just don’t use them and prefer to pew pew with light attacks and single target abilities, then wonder why it’s not doing anything.

NotTaylorSwift

ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »

There is a big problem here - in PVE I can choose to willingly not do this content and still have fun. In PVP, I can't not fight the ball group - I mean, I guess I could but if they are after your factions objectives then you lose all your keeps.

This is not a problem. It’s pvp, you rarely get to choose anyway. If I’m playing with a couple of friends trying to find a nice amount of enemies to fight and we go take a resource. I can guarantee after 5-10 minutes 20 players will show up. I also cannot choose to not encounter zergs. Players have their own free will and you can’t stop them from playing how they want. Zerg players are so entitled, they just don’t like the thought that something counters them.

Nothing is ever gonna be just how YOU like it, you have to deal with the stuff you don’t like also. Just like everyone else.

Kwoung

ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »

I have a dilemma with ball groups.

On one hand, I think teamwork like that should be OP. Teamwork is awesome and should be rewarded.

On the other hand, they are simply unfun to play against.

Yes I know I could make it more fun by 'gitting gud' and forming my own counter-ball group, but I lack the time, energy, and skills to do so.

I do think people who can (or would rather) only get on for primetime (that's why primetime is primetime after all) should still be able to have a fun experience in Cyrodiil. They shouldn't have to learn the social skills or use the data analysis they do for work or whatever to enjoy the game.

Fighting against a ballgroup is unfun, flat. I am bringing a work buddy to ESO because he likes the idea of the PVP system I talked to him about, and I am HORRIFIED of when he gets high enough to show up in Cyrodiil. It's just suffering if a ball group is on. Your options are:

1) ignore them (and lose the objective)
2) die a lot (and lose the objective)
3) develop through lots of pain and effort and time investment your own ball group

Look at them like a Vet DLC Trial boss, those are pretty unfun as well if you can't manage to pull 65K+ DPS and your healers/tanks know what they are doing. You are just banging your head against a wall if your group isn't good enough. Cyro is a pretty big place with lots of AP everywhere for the taking, no reason to go head to head with content you aren't ready for yet, just like the rest of the game.

There is a big problem here - in PVE I can choose to willingly not do this content and still have fun. In PVP, I can't not fight the ball group - I mean, I guess I could but if they are after your factions objectives then you lose all your keeps.

Being gated isn't fun either, and a truly hateful ball group could keep you gated as long as they pleased for giggles or whatever.

Ofc the option not to play content still exists - after all, "don't play Cyrodiil" is roughly equivalent to "don't play vet BRP" but I am not sure you really want to say "gtfo noob" to anyone not in a ball group.

If I don't want to fight a Vet Raid Boss, there is still plenty of PVE content I can enjoy. The 3 other PVP options are:
1) BGs with its own toxic meta and entirely different game modes, builds, etc.
2) Imperial City, which can also have ball groups and is mostly PVE.
3) Duels which are also not even remotely the same as Cyrodiil.

This is twisted logic. Yes, there is plenty of other PVE content to play if you are not ready for the hard stuff. Your 3 options however are far from the amount of things you can do while avoiding balls groups in Cyro. You can go take their keeps, resources, scrolls, as they are happy farming AP from the zerglings who continually throw themselves at them where they currently are. You can play solo/small scale, most ball groups will not bother with you and run right past on their way to find a good fight. You can take lightly defended keeps/outposts. Honestly, ball groups hunt zergs and each other, don't be in one and you won't have much trouble.

As someone mentioned above, I find zergs/faction stacks more annoying personally, they just mow down everyone except the ball groups by sheer numbers. Sure I can kill 3-6 of them before I get trampled, but there isn't even a chance of winning. ZOS should nerf zergs, they are a much larger plague in PVP than the ball groups you occasionally come across and can easily avoid. Unlike ball groups, there is generally no one else to fight when a faction stacks, which takes way more fun out of Cyro than 12 players running around a keep.

Vizirith

NotTaylorSwift wrote: »

“It’s unfun to play against” yes maybe for some people. But for almost every small scale or solo player it is also unfun to find a good number of enemies to fight only to be steamrolled by the main zerg 2 minutes later as they run to the next keep. Just like us ballgroups are the unfun part of cyro for you, you are also the unfun part of cyro for many other players. You just don’t hear them voicing it on the forums. No one comes to the forums to yell “disband zergs, they kill me while I play small scale”.

It’s not the fault of ballgroups that zerg players don’t know how to deal with them. There are tools already in the game that counter ball groups (which don’t include making your own ball group like many are saying), people just don’t use them and prefer to pew pew with light attacks and single target abilities, then wonder why it’s not doing anything.

Without a faction stack you can't kill a ball group, as izanagi was saying. And please name those tools that counter ball groups. And no saying that if 20 people array meatbags pointing at the ball group who decides to simply stand there and take in the scenery isn't a counter. So please let me know the tools that 20 un-grouped people without much coordination can do/use to wipe a ball group.

ragnarok6644b14_ESO

NotTaylorSwift wrote: »

ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »

There is a big problem here - in PVE I can choose to willingly not do this content and still have fun. In PVP, I can't not fight the ball group - I mean, I guess I could but if they are after your factions objectives then you lose all your keeps.

This is not a problem. It’s pvp, you rarely get to choose anyway. If I’m playing with a couple of friends trying to find a nice amount of enemies to fight and we go take a resource. I can guarantee after 5-10 minutes 20 players will show up. I also cannot choose to not encounter zergs. Players have their own free will and you can’t stop them from playing how they want. Zerg players are so entitled, they just don’t like the thought that something counters them.

Nothing is ever gonna be just how YOU like it, you have to deal with the stuff you don’t like also. Just like everyone else.

I understand all that. I don't mind situations I don't like. It's just that for those situations there are solutions. I haven't really heard what solutions there are here other than "avoid them" which okay, fair enough. I guess everytime one shows up I will drop everything and move to another keep, spending the next 35 minutes wrangling the rest of my group to do so as well only to have two thirds of them leave disheartened because they simply aren't having fun.

I mean, what else can I do?

Kwoung wrote: »

ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »

I have a dilemma with ball groups.

On one hand, I think teamwork like that should be OP. Teamwork is awesome and should be rewarded.

On the other hand, they are simply unfun to play against.

Yes I know I could make it more fun by 'gitting gud' and forming my own counter-ball group, but I lack the time, energy, and skills to do so.

I do think people who can (or would rather) only get on for primetime (that's why primetime is primetime after all) should still be able to have a fun experience in Cyrodiil. They shouldn't have to learn the social skills or use the data analysis they do for work or whatever to enjoy the game.

Fighting against a ballgroup is unfun, flat. I am bringing a work buddy to ESO because he likes the idea of the PVP system I talked to him about, and I am HORRIFIED of when he gets high enough to show up in Cyrodiil. It's just suffering if a ball group is on. Your options are:

1) ignore them (and lose the objective)
2) die a lot (and lose the objective)
3) develop through lots of pain and effort and time investment your own ball group

Look at them like a Vet DLC Trial boss, those are pretty unfun as well if you can't manage to pull 65K+ DPS and your healers/tanks know what they are doing. You are just banging your head against a wall if your group isn't good enough. Cyro is a pretty big place with lots of AP everywhere for the taking, no reason to go head to head with content you aren't ready for yet, just like the rest of the game.

There is a big problem here - in PVE I can choose to willingly not do this content and still have fun. In PVP, I can't not fight the ball group - I mean, I guess I could but if they are after your factions objectives then you lose all your keeps.

Being gated isn't fun either, and a truly hateful ball group could keep you gated as long as they pleased for giggles or whatever.

Ofc the option not to play content still exists - after all, "don't play Cyrodiil" is roughly equivalent to "don't play vet BRP" but I am not sure you really want to say "gtfo noob" to anyone not in a ball group.

If I don't want to fight a Vet Raid Boss, there is still plenty of PVE content I can enjoy. The 3 other PVP options are:
1) BGs with its own toxic meta and entirely different game modes, builds, etc.
2) Imperial City, which can also have ball groups and is mostly PVE.
3) Duels which are also not even remotely the same as Cyrodiil.

This is twisted logic. Yes, there is plenty of other PVE content to play if you are not ready for the hard stuff. Your 3 options however are far from the amount of things you can do while avoiding balls groups in Cyro. You can go take their keeps, resources, scrolls, as they are happy farming AP from the zerglings who continually throw themselves at them where they currently are. You can play solo/small scale, most ball groups will not bother with you and run right past on their way to find a good fight. You can take lightly defended keeps/outposts. Honestly, ball groups hunt zergs and each other, don't be in one and you won't have much trouble.

As someone mentioned above, I find zergs/faction stacks more annoying personally, they just mow down everyone except the ball groups by sheer numbers. Sure I can kill 3-6 of them before I get trampled, but there isn't even a chance of winning. ZOS should nerf zergs, they are a much larger plague in PVP than the ball groups you occasionally come across and can easily avoid. Unlike ball groups, there is generally no one else to fight when a faction stacks, which takes way more fun out of Cyro than 12 players running around a keep.

Read what izanagi said. They aren't farming AP and there are better AP farms out there. Killing these same people over and over again rewards low AP. I believe him that his ball goes for objectives.

So I could go take RSS. Not scrolls, as I am only avoiding 12 people and there is an entire rest of a faction ahead of me. I can't take keeps because the ball group will just arrive at the new keep - unless I don't get many people, in which case I lose to the other faction members that aren't part of those 12 people.

That leaves undefended keeps (yay PvDoor, the best game mode), resources (pve, nice), or small-scale pvp (I'm really glad I waited through the queue for the mass battle system so I could play Battlegrounds).

And yeah, faction stacks probably deserve their own thread. But at least they fit the mass battle nature of Cyrodiil, rather than smaller-scale Battlegrounds pvp, in my humble opinion.

Satiar

Vizirith wrote: »

NotTaylorSwift wrote: »

“It’s unfun to play against” yes maybe for some people. But for almost every small scale or solo player it is also unfun to find a good number of enemies to fight only to be steamrolled by the main zerg 2 minutes later as they run to the next keep. Just like us ballgroups are the unfun part of cyro for you, you are also the unfun part of cyro for many other players. You just don’t hear them voicing it on the forums. No one comes to the forums to yell “disband zergs, they kill me while I play small scale”.

It’s not the fault of ballgroups that zerg players don’t know how to deal with them. There are tools already in the game that counter ball groups (which don’t include making your own ball group like many are saying), people just don’t use them and prefer to pew pew with light attacks and single target abilities, then wonder why it’s not doing anything.

Without a faction stack you can't kill a ball group, as izanagi was saying. And please name those tools that counter ball groups. And no saying that if 20 people array meatbags pointing at the ball group who decides to simply stand there and take in the scenery isn't a counter. So please let me know the tools that 20 un-grouped people without much coordination can do/use to wipe a ball group.

Get a realllllly good tether bomb, basically. If you’re not in a raid that’s all you got. 20 ungrouped won’t beat 12 of a good raid.

Vizirith

Satiar wrote: »

Vizirith wrote: »

NotTaylorSwift wrote: »

“It’s unfun to play against” yes maybe for some people. But for almost every small scale or solo player it is also unfun to find a good number of enemies to fight only to be steamrolled by the main zerg 2 minutes later as they run to the next keep. Just like us ballgroups are the unfun part of cyro for you, you are also the unfun part of cyro for many other players. You just don’t hear them voicing it on the forums. No one comes to the forums to yell “disband zergs, they kill me while I play small scale”.

It’s not the fault of ballgroups that zerg players don’t know how to deal with them. There are tools already in the game that counter ball groups (which don’t include making your own ball group like many are saying), people just don’t use them and prefer to pew pew with light attacks and single target abilities, then wonder why it’s not doing anything.

Without a faction stack you can't kill a ball group, as izanagi was saying. And please name those tools that counter ball groups. And no saying that if 20 people array meatbags pointing at the ball group who decides to simply stand there and take in the scenery isn't a counter. So please let me know the tools that 20 un-grouped people without much coordination can do/use to wipe a ball group.

Get a realllllly good tether bomb, basically. If you’re not in a raid that’s all you got. 20 ungrouped won’t beat 12 of a good raid.

And 20 unorganized ungrouped players shouldn't beat 12 organized grouped players, but 40+ really ought to be more than just a competitive fight.

NotTaylorSwift

Vizirith wrote: »

NotTaylorSwift wrote: »

“It’s unfun to play against” yes maybe for some people. But for almost every small scale or solo player it is also unfun to find a good number of enemies to fight only to be steamrolled by the main zerg 2 minutes later as they run to the next keep. Just like us ballgroups are the unfun part of cyro for you, you are also the unfun part of cyro for many other players. You just don’t hear them voicing it on the forums. No one comes to the forums to yell “disband zergs, they kill me while I play small scale”.

It’s not the fault of ballgroups that zerg players don’t know how to deal with them. There are tools already in the game that counter ball groups (which don’t include making your own ball group like many are saying), people just don’t use them and prefer to pew pew with light attacks and single target abilities, then wonder why it’s not doing anything.

Without a faction stack you can't kill a ball group, as izanagi was saying. And please name those tools that counter ball groups. And no saying that if 20 people array meatbags pointing at the ball group who decides to simply stand there and take in the scenery isn't a counter. So please let me know the tools that 20 un-grouped people without much coordination can do/use to wipe a ball group.

[snip] but there are sets, skills, and other tools already out there. Some people already use them, [snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

ShadowProc

NotTaylorSwift wrote: »

This whole thread is so strange. It’s like saying “nerf the pve groups because they can complete x veteran hard mode trial and I can’t do it with pugs”. It just doesn’t make sense. As many people have said already, any group that is coordinated and using voice is going to be more effective...

We spend lots of time working on our group composition, what sets each person will use, even down to what skills exactly. We look at which buffs we want to have in the group, which buffs we can afford to skip. All to make it run as efficiently as possible. What’s so bad about that? Anyone who plays with other people has the ability to do that...

And then of course comes the ‘ballgroups are the main cause of lag”. If ballgroups were the main cause of lag then surely we would also be lagging for the entirety of our 2h+ raids? But no. We can take keeps fine. Fight small numbers of enemies fine. Fight even numbers of enemies fine. But when the whole AD faction turns up Bloodmayne... well ye. It’s the mindless zerging in 40+ man groups, running from one keep to the next where you will find the most lag

They are. Not speculating. Fact. The reason why some don’t cause lag is frankly they are not nearly as good spamming the constant cross healing and purge.

On top of that add their goal. Concentrate as many players at one point on the map, especially if it’s between two other factions, to blow up pugs and giggle like children for the major accomplishment of beating ransoms with no chance killing them.

How many calculations using heals if your solo versus a group? Lol

ShadowProc

ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »

I have a dilemma with ball groups.

On one hand, I think teamwork like that should be OP. Teamwork is awesome and should be rewarded.

On the other hand, they are simply unfun to play against.

Yes I know I could make it more fun by 'gitting gud' and forming my own counter-ball group, but I lack the time, energy, and skills to do so.

I do think people who can (or would rather) only get on for primetime (that's why primetime is primetime after all) should still be able to have a fun experience in Cyrodiil. They shouldn't have to learn the social skills or use the data analysis they do for work or whatever to enjoy the game.

Fighting against a ballgroup is unfun, flat. I am bringing a work buddy to ESO because he likes the idea of the PVP system I talked to him about, and I am HORRIFIED of when he gets high enough to show up in Cyrodiil. It's just suffering if a ball group is on. Your options are:

1) ignore them (and lose the objective)
2) die a lot (and lose the objective)
3) develop through lots of pain and effort and time investment your own ball group

Agree with teamwork should be OP. But this is not teamwork. This is specific builds and roles and dumbs it way down from soloers or small groups.

You want to group. Great do it. But eliminate cross healing and cross purge. You want broken purge or heals, build for it.

Grouping up should be players all in well rounded builds coordinating together. Not receiving free constant purges and free heals. Makes no sense. Makes it ez mode.

Yusuf

There's another thread about how bombing should be removed from the game. I think the two of you should settle somewhere in the middle

Crash427

ShadowProc wrote: »

ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »

I have a dilemma with ball groups.

On one hand, I think teamwork like that should be OP. Teamwork is awesome and should be rewarded.

On the other hand, they are simply unfun to play against.

Yes I know I could make it more fun by 'gitting gud' and forming my own counter-ball group, but I lack the time, energy, and skills to do so.

I do think people who can (or would rather) only get on for primetime (that's why primetime is primetime after all) should still be able to have a fun experience in Cyrodiil. They shouldn't have to learn the social skills or use the data analysis they do for work or whatever to enjoy the game.

Fighting against a ballgroup is unfun, flat. I am bringing a work buddy to ESO because he likes the idea of the PVP system I talked to him about, and I am HORRIFIED of when he gets high enough to show up in Cyrodiil. It's just suffering if a ball group is on. Your options are:

1) ignore them (and lose the objective)
2) die a lot (and lose the objective)
3) develop through lots of pain and effort and time investment your own ball group

Agree with teamwork should be OP. But this is not teamwork. This is specific builds and roles and dumbs it way down from soloers or small groups.

You want to group. Great do it. But eliminate cross healing and cross purge. You want broken purge or heals, build for it.

Grouping up should be players all in well rounded builds coordinating together. Not receiving free constant purges and free heals. Makes no sense. Makes it ez mode.

I've said it before but if it were as easy as wearing the build you're given, staying on crown, and spamming one button then there'd be a lot more people doing it.

And part of the reason to group is that you can specialize to be more effective at a specific task while the weaknesses in your build are covered by a different specialist.

Thraben

ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/557515/ball-breaker-groups-heh#latest

Feel free to make a summary at Alcast or where all these helpless people are looking.

ragnarok6644b14_ESO

Thraben wrote: »

ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »

"Can't be bothered to find out" - I don't even know where to start looking. Having simply googled it offered no real solution.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/557515/ball-breaker-groups-heh#latest

Feel free to make a summary at Alcast or where all these helpless people are looking.

[snip] I mentioned earlier that I am looking to enjoy Cyrodiil now and again - after work or during a day off for a bit.

Forming a guild and farming lots of incredibly specific sets and then putting in the repeated practice is a lot of work. I will look into these solutions but as a magplar about the only thing I can do it looks like is form the guild - necros, sorcs, and dks are the solutions it looks like. Maybe help them farm their mandatory gear.

But thank you though. That gives me something to think about and riff off of, even if I will never be able to implement any of it due to time and guild slot (and character class) constraints.

[Edited to remove Baiting]

Troll92

Dunno about everyone else but i'm down with the siege dots being uncleansable. Sieges tend to be a tad more effective against ballgroups than just rushing into them and feeding them ults. Also i don't see that affecting normal pvp as most people die from sieges anyway. That way organised siege groups could deal with ballgroups without needing the other 50-100 players that it usually takes to cleanse a ballgroup. Pugs have no real way of countering ballgroups especially with snare immunity and allegedly constant healing. They'd still be a menace but a controllable one. And also i saw someone saying that "nothing anybody said here shows that ballgroups don't care about objectives or campaign" . Well, this is mostly the case as i can't see farming with hammer or scroll until its reset timer expires, blatantly ignoring half your keeps being ua, and sometimes losing said scroll/hammer to the enemy as constituting caring about your faction's war. Sure they're having fun, at the expense of others, but don't sugarcoat it like they're just some group of players doing what comes natural in pvp.

ZOS_ConnorG

Greetings all,

After review we have had to edit or remove several posts for rule violations, mostly Baiting. Ensure when engaging in a discussion that you keep said discussion civil, constructive, and within the rules. If you see a post that is baiting in nature do not engage it with further hostility and instead report it for the moderators to review.

You are welcome to review the Community Rules here.

ShadowProc

Crash427 wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »

I have a dilemma with ball groups.

On one hand, I think teamwork like that should be OP. Teamwork is awesome and should be rewarded.

On the other hand, they are simply unfun to play against.

Yes I know I could make it more fun by 'gitting gud' and forming my own counter-ball group, but I lack the time, energy, and skills to do so.

I do think people who can (or would rather) only get on for primetime (that's why primetime is primetime after all) should still be able to have a fun experience in Cyrodiil. They shouldn't have to learn the social skills or use the data analysis they do for work or whatever to enjoy the game.

Fighting against a ballgroup is unfun, flat. I am bringing a work buddy to ESO because he likes the idea of the PVP system I talked to him about, and I am HORRIFIED of when he gets high enough to show up in Cyrodiil. It's just suffering if a ball group is on. Your options are:

1) ignore them (and lose the objective)
2) die a lot (and lose the objective)
3) develop through lots of pain and effort and time investment your own ball group

Agree with teamwork should be OP. But this is not teamwork. This is specific builds and roles and dumbs it way down from soloers or small groups.

You want to group. Great do it. But eliminate cross healing and cross purge. You want broken purge or heals, build for it.

Grouping up should be players all in well rounded builds coordinating together. Not receiving free constant purges and free heals. Makes no sense. Makes it ez mode.

I've said it before but if it were as easy as wearing the build you're given, staying on crown, and spamming one button then there'd be a lot more people doing it.

And part of the reason to group is that you can specialize to be more effective at a specific task while the weaknesses in your build are covered by a different specialist.

And you would be wrong. It is miles easy. More people aren’t doing it because either A) not enough raid leads who know what they are doing and have the patience to train up a core group b) they realized how much more challenging small scale is c) not enough experienced players playing who could form a group to give a challenge to the three or so remaining top guilds d) players leave because they sick of getting pug stomped by broken ball groups. I did that crap for 4 years. Against other guilds it was fantastic. Yes takes skill for that. Before boring VD. But still against pugs was no challenge.

Group fighting now is an absolute joke compared to first 4 years with multiple top guilds to fight on all factions.

Go ahead and form guilds now with non launch players. You will get stomped. That’s why really there are three guilds left at most.

Crash427

So all we have to do is find a raid lead that knows what they're doing, train up a core group, find other experienced players, and hope everyone is patient enough to deal with the learning curve. Yea, you're right, that's really easy. Thanks for setting me straight.

And I wouldn't know anything about helping to put together a guild with non launch players. Thanks for the warning.

Thraben

No.

All you need to do is to create LfG groups who mainly consist of people using Inevitable Detonation, or to encourage other people to do so.

As soon as the critical mass of Detonations on a campaign is reached, only the best groups will remain. The others will leave, or die.

maxjapank

Thraben wrote: »

No.

All you need to do is to create LfG groups who mainly consist of people using Inevitable Detonation, or to encourage other people to do so.

It would be nice to not be stuck in combat so that you could slot Inevitable Detonation. As is, you won’t find many giving up bar space to slot a skill for usual fights.

Sandman929

You just have to change everything you're doing and then you have a chance to overcome the incredible defensive advantages that ball groups use to stay alive. Sound advice.

JingoJango046

I find that ball groups are counterable with the right gameplay so long as the lag or any other issues are not present. There are tactics like those previously mentioned that can and do work, such as proxy det or chaining. But, as is, its extremely difficult to do when skills or bar swaps often dont work.
Its too easy to blame the ball groups, we can see they cause the lag, we all know when you go near them you cant mount for ages, you often cant use skills etc etc. But they dont make the game, they play the game. The design of the ball groups is obviously extremely effective and well done to those that lead them.

While the game is the way it is, facing ball groups will remain difficult. Lets see what the latest proc set tests brings us and applaud eso for at least trying to do something to make the game better for us all. It was wonderful in RW on EU recently btw, no ball groups so no horrendous lag.