Maintenance for the week of September 16:
• [COMPLETE] PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 16, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) – 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 18, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 18, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• [COMPLETE] PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 16, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) – 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 18, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 18, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
Update 44 is now available for testing on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts
Dwemer as a new race in a future chapter.
-
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭"the Dwemer were believed to be sized similarly to the average elf or human, though occasionally likened to large children with beards."
I read this as they were smaller than average.
Here's the quote from Herbane's Bestiary: Dwarven Automatons by Herebane: "The Dwarves have been extinct for many an age, and perhaps for the best. To see men and women the size of large children, all with beards, would be a most disturbing sight"
This was just an assumption, not a statement.
Regardless, its been noted and observed that they were the size of large children. It's also evident based on the world lore of what is accepted universally as a "dwarf", even in real life terms a dwarf is a small person.
This wasn't an observation, nor an educated guess. This was an ignorant claim akin to "I've never seen Danes but I've heard about their activity 1000 years ago, they had beards and swung axes. Would be terrifying to see a Dane now".
and neither were all of the other observations. And yet they were referred to as dwarves (smaller people) and not just by giants.
Monikers do not come from nowhere.1 -
stevenyaub16_ESO✭✭✭✭Look up some lore [snip]. They never appeared again after their disappearance up till latest canon events (Skyrim) so they won't appear in ESO's era.
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Lunar on December 2, 2020 4:34PM2 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭"the Dwemer were believed to be sized similarly to the average elf or human, though occasionally likened to large children with beards."
I read this as they were smaller than average.
Here's the quote from Herbane's Bestiary: Dwarven Automatons by Herebane: "The Dwarves have been extinct for many an age, and perhaps for the best. To see men and women the size of large children, all with beards, would be a most disturbing sight"
This was just an assumption, not a statement.
Regardless, its been noted and observed that they were the size of large children. It's also evident based on the world lore of what is accepted universally as a "dwarf", even in real life terms a dwarf is a small person.
"Contrary to many legends, archaeological evidence of known Dwemer ruins leads one to believe that they were about the same size as the typical human or elf, evidenced by the fact that all existing Dwarven armor is average sized (although some claim that "Dwarven armor" is either the outer shells of machines or mismatched pieces from various devices). According to fable, the moniker "dwarf" may have been given long ago by the giants to their "little" friends. Imperial excavation of Dwemer ruins supports the Dlyxexic theory that the translation of Dwemer as Deep Elves might also be read as Smart Elves. Indeed, perhaps the brilliant students of the Ehlnofey mentioned in The Anuad are the Dwarves themselves. Purported descriptions of the last living Dwemer cannot be relied upon, as he was admittedly bloated and deformed by Corprus, and the only other visual examples come from sculptures and Dwarven Spectres found in their ruined dwellings. It can be deduced, however, that long beards were popular among the lost elves, and they preferred heavy metal armors and robes. Their remaining features could be described similarly to that of the other elven races, as no specific information exists."
Lore:Dwemer
Ruins_of_Kemel-Ze
Dialog of Hasphat_Antabolis
1 -
nukk3r✭✭✭✭✭
✭By the time of ESO, the dwemer were extinct for about 2800 years. What possible enclave are you talking about?
It's not exactly easy to determine if a group of deep "earth", cave dwelling species is extinct. That is a very easy thing to explain away in lore, outside of the fact the lore is very loose on Dwemer to start with.
1. They built huge cities with steam vents coming to the surface, would be hard to miss that.
2. Yes, they're meant to be a mystery, like Akavir.
And who do we know about? Yagrum Bagarn didn't seem small. Radac Stungnthumz was the size of a dunmer.
Also here's a quote from The War of the First Council by Agrippa Fundilius: "The War of the First Council was a First Age religious conflict between the secular Dunmer Houses Dwemer and Dagoth and the orthodox Dunmer Houses Indoril, Redoran, Dres, Hlaalu, and Telvanni".
1. There are lots of dwemer and steam in Vvardenfell, does not mean all that is underneath has been discovered.
2. When originally written yes, just like the clone wars in Star Wars. Does not mean things can't be expanded on. You prefer their lore be maintained as written, I prefer their lore be fleshed out because their story arc can go all over the place, and that is something I would like to see.
Also, they were referred to as the size of "large children with beards". I take this as being smaller than the average dunmer.
Where and who are those dwemer? Name at least one, that I didn't mention.
Thats the point, they are not discovered yet.
I don't want to discourage you but this is never gonna happen. This is your headcanon, it means a lot to you because it's a mysterious part of the game. You can create theories, you can believe in miracle, it can be your thing despite all in-game sources saying otherwise. But the moment they add something in the game the magic will be ruined for everyone, even for you.9 -
nukk3r✭✭✭✭✭
✭"the Dwemer were believed to be sized similarly to the average elf or human, though occasionally likened to large children with beards."
I read this as they were smaller than average.
Here's the quote from Herbane's Bestiary: Dwarven Automatons by Herebane: "The Dwarves have been extinct for many an age, and perhaps for the best. To see men and women the size of large children, all with beards, would be a most disturbing sight"
This was just an assumption, not a statement.
Regardless, its been noted and observed that they were the size of large children. It's also evident based on the world lore of what is accepted universally as a "dwarf", even in real life terms a dwarf is a small person.
"Contrary to many legends, archaeological evidence of known Dwemer ruins leads one to believe that they were about the same size as the typical human or elf, evidenced by the fact that all existing Dwarven armor is average sized (although some claim that "Dwarven armor" is either the outer shells of machines or mismatched pieces from various devices). According to fable, the moniker "dwarf" may have been given long ago by the giants to their "little" friends. Imperial excavation of Dwemer ruins supports the Dlyxexic theory that the translation of Dwemer as Deep Elves might also be read as Smart Elves. Indeed, perhaps the brilliant students of the Ehlnofey mentioned in The Anuad are the Dwarves themselves. Purported descriptions of the last living Dwemer cannot be relied upon, as he was admittedly bloated and deformed by Corprus, and the only other visual examples come from sculptures and Dwarven Spectres found in their ruined dwellings. It can be deduced, however, that long beards were popular among the lost elves, and they preferred heavy metal armors and robes. Their remaining features could be described similarly to that of the other elven races, as no specific information exists."
Lore:Dwemer
Ruins_of_Kemel-Ze
Dialog of Hasphat_Antabolis
I already quoted that. It's a book by a nord (same height as altmer) adventurer who compiled a bestiary, not a historian. He assumed that even women had beards, which we have no proof of in other sources, which describe dwemer to look like other mer.Edited by nukk3r on December 2, 2020 4:05PM8 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭By the time of ESO, the dwemer were extinct for about 2800 years. What possible enclave are you talking about?
It's not exactly easy to determine if a group of deep "earth", cave dwelling species is extinct. That is a very easy thing to explain away in lore, outside of the fact the lore is very loose on Dwemer to start with.
1. They built huge cities with steam vents coming to the surface, would be hard to miss that.
2. Yes, they're meant to be a mystery, like Akavir.
And who do we know about? Yagrum Bagarn didn't seem small. Radac Stungnthumz was the size of a dunmer.
Also here's a quote from The War of the First Council by Agrippa Fundilius: "The War of the First Council was a First Age religious conflict between the secular Dunmer Houses Dwemer and Dagoth and the orthodox Dunmer Houses Indoril, Redoran, Dres, Hlaalu, and Telvanni".
1. There are lots of dwemer and steam in Vvardenfell, does not mean all that is underneath has been discovered.
2. When originally written yes, just like the clone wars in Star Wars. Does not mean things can't be expanded on. You prefer their lore be maintained as written, I prefer their lore be fleshed out because their story arc can go all over the place, and that is something I would like to see.
Also, they were referred to as the size of "large children with beards". I take this as being smaller than the average dunmer.
Where and who are those dwemer? Name at least one, that I didn't mention.
Thats the point, they are not discovered yet.
I don't want to discourage you but this is never gonna happen. This is your headcanon, it means a lot to you because it's a mysterious part of the game. You can create theories, you can believe in miracle, it can be your thing despite all in-game sources saying otherwise. But the moment they add something in the game the magic will be ruined for everyone, even for you.
Nope. Because I am not as invested into that mystery as you are.
1. The lore comes from a game, its always come from a game. There is nothing else setting the precedent except Elder Scrolls games.
2. The point in a game is to be an active participant in that world/universe.
3. I dont expect to find the entirety of the dwemer, nor suggested it. In fact I suggested that a group of them were found, I forget the exact words I used. There is little known so there is a lot of room for growth and interpretation.
Bottom line is this. I created this post because I would like to see them in game.2 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭"the Dwemer were believed to be sized similarly to the average elf or human, though occasionally likened to large children with beards."
I read this as they were smaller than average.
Here's the quote from Herbane's Bestiary: Dwarven Automatons by Herebane: "The Dwarves have been extinct for many an age, and perhaps for the best. To see men and women the size of large children, all with beards, would be a most disturbing sight"
This was just an assumption, not a statement.
Regardless, its been noted and observed that they were the size of large children. It's also evident based on the world lore of what is accepted universally as a "dwarf", even in real life terms a dwarf is a small person.
"Contrary to many legends, archaeological evidence of known Dwemer ruins leads one to believe that they were about the same size as the typical human or elf, evidenced by the fact that all existing Dwarven armor is average sized (although some claim that "Dwarven armor" is either the outer shells of machines or mismatched pieces from various devices). According to fable, the moniker "dwarf" may have been given long ago by the giants to their "little" friends. Imperial excavation of Dwemer ruins supports the Dlyxexic theory that the translation of Dwemer as Deep Elves might also be read as Smart Elves. Indeed, perhaps the brilliant students of the Ehlnofey mentioned in The Anuad are the Dwarves themselves. Purported descriptions of the last living Dwemer cannot be relied upon, as he was admittedly bloated and deformed by Corprus, and the only other visual examples come from sculptures and Dwarven Spectres found in their ruined dwellings. It can be deduced, however, that long beards were popular among the lost elves, and they preferred heavy metal armors and robes. Their remaining features could be described similarly to that of the other elven races, as no specific information exists."
Lore:Dwemer
Ruins_of_Kemel-Ze
Dialog of Hasphat_Antabolis
I already quoted that. It's a book by a nord (same height as altmer) adventurer who compiled a bestiary, not a historian. He assumed that even women had beards, which we have no proof of in other sources, which describe dwemer too look like other mer.
1.As I have already stated. They were called dwarves for a reason, and its not because they were giants or even the same size as other races. There would be no reason to call them dwarves (referenced as being dwarves by more than giants). This is a simple logical conclusion.
2. I do not vision them as being knee high, but noticeably smaller than other races. As evident of them being called dwarves universally.
There is more evidence suggesting they were smaller, than suggests they were the same size as everyone else.
2 -
SidraWillowsky✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO no, no, no. Part of the reason why the Dwemer are so fascinating is because they're such a mystery. I can't think of any way to introduce them as a race that wouldn't kill the magic.
Plus, everyone knows they're chilling with the Numidium in Zero Sum Land waiting for Landfall...
But seriously, if you're hungry for more Dwemer I'd suggest some Skyrim mods; The Wheels of Lull and The Hanging Gardens are both quite good (WoL is my all-time favorite and full of the more esoteric Kirkbride-ian lore).
3 -
nukk3r✭✭✭✭✭
✭"the Dwemer were believed to be sized similarly to the average elf or human, though occasionally likened to large children with beards."
I read this as they were smaller than average.
Here's the quote from Herbane's Bestiary: Dwarven Automatons by Herebane: "The Dwarves have been extinct for many an age, and perhaps for the best. To see men and women the size of large children, all with beards, would be a most disturbing sight"
This was just an assumption, not a statement.
Regardless, its been noted and observed that they were the size of large children. It's also evident based on the world lore of what is accepted universally as a "dwarf", even in real life terms a dwarf is a small person.
"Contrary to many legends, archaeological evidence of known Dwemer ruins leads one to believe that they were about the same size as the typical human or elf, evidenced by the fact that all existing Dwarven armor is average sized (although some claim that "Dwarven armor" is either the outer shells of machines or mismatched pieces from various devices). According to fable, the moniker "dwarf" may have been given long ago by the giants to their "little" friends. Imperial excavation of Dwemer ruins supports the Dlyxexic theory that the translation of Dwemer as Deep Elves might also be read as Smart Elves. Indeed, perhaps the brilliant students of the Ehlnofey mentioned in The Anuad are the Dwarves themselves. Purported descriptions of the last living Dwemer cannot be relied upon, as he was admittedly bloated and deformed by Corprus, and the only other visual examples come from sculptures and Dwarven Spectres found in their ruined dwellings. It can be deduced, however, that long beards were popular among the lost elves, and they preferred heavy metal armors and robes. Their remaining features could be described similarly to that of the other elven races, as no specific information exists."
Lore:Dwemer
Ruins_of_Kemel-Ze
Dialog of Hasphat_Antabolis
I already quoted that. It's a book by a nord (same height as altmer) adventurer who compiled a bestiary, not a historian. He assumed that even women had beards, which we have no proof of in other sources, which describe dwemer too look like other mer.
1.As I have already stated. They were called dwarves for a reason, and its not because they were giants or even the same size as other races. There would be no reason to call them dwarves (referenced as being dwarves by more than giants). This is a simple logical conclusion.
2. I do not vision them as being knee high, but noticeably smaller than other races. As evident of them being called dwarves universally.
There is more evidence suggesting they were smaller, than suggests they were the same size as everyone else.
Please link that evidence.5 -
SidraWillowsky✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭"the Dwemer were believed to be sized similarly to the average elf or human, though occasionally likened to large children with beards."
I read this as they were smaller than average.
Here's the quote from Herbane's Bestiary: Dwarven Automatons by Herebane: "The Dwarves have been extinct for many an age, and perhaps for the best. To see men and women the size of large children, all with beards, would be a most disturbing sight"
This was just an assumption, not a statement.
Regardless, its been noted and observed that they were the size of large children. It's also evident based on the world lore of what is accepted universally as a "dwarf", even in real life terms a dwarf is a small person.
"Contrary to many legends, archaeological evidence of known Dwemer ruins leads one to believe that they were about the same size as the typical human or elf, evidenced by the fact that all existing Dwarven armor is average sized (although some claim that "Dwarven armor" is either the outer shells of machines or mismatched pieces from various devices). According to fable, the moniker "dwarf" may have been given long ago by the giants to their "little" friends. Imperial excavation of Dwemer ruins supports the Dlyxexic theory that the translation of Dwemer as Deep Elves might also be read as Smart Elves. Indeed, perhaps the brilliant students of the Ehlnofey mentioned in The Anuad are the Dwarves themselves. Purported descriptions of the last living Dwemer cannot be relied upon, as he was admittedly bloated and deformed by Corprus, and the only other visual examples come from sculptures and Dwarven Spectres found in their ruined dwellings. It can be deduced, however, that long beards were popular among the lost elves, and they preferred heavy metal armors and robes. Their remaining features could be described similarly to that of the other elven races, as no specific information exists."
Lore:Dwemer
Ruins_of_Kemel-Ze
Dialog of Hasphat_Antabolis
I already quoted that. It's a book by a nord (same height as altmer) adventurer who compiled a bestiary, not a historian. He assumed that even women had beards, which we have no proof of in other sources, which describe dwemer too look like other mer.
1.As I have already stated. They were called dwarves for a reason, and its not because they were giants or even the same size as other races. There would be no reason to call them dwarves (referenced as being dwarves by more than giants). This is a simple logical conclusion.
2. I do not vision them as being knee high, but noticeably smaller than other races. As evident of them being called dwarves universally.
There is more evidence suggesting they were smaller, than suggests they were the same size as everyone else.
You meet a Dwemer ghost in the Tribunal expansion of TES III:
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Tribunal:Radac_Stungnthumz
He appears to be taller than a Bosmer and shorter than an Altmer.6 -
Pixiepumpkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭i would love to play dwemers. their story is fun but not enough. they could do cool things with their technology and it would be cool to play with that stuff"𝕰𝖛𝖊𝖓 𝕲𝖔𝖉𝖘 𝖉𝖎𝖘𝖑𝖎𝖐𝖊 𝖙𝖍𝖊 𝖆𝖇𝖘𝖔𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖊, 𝖋𝖔𝖗 𝖎𝖙 𝖘𝖙𝖎𝖓𝖐𝖘 𝖔𝖋 𝖘𝖔𝖒𝖊𝖙𝖍𝖎𝖓𝖌 𝖑𝖆𝖗𝖌𝖊𝖗 𝖙𝖍𝖆𝖓 𝖙𝖍𝖊𝖒𝖘𝖊𝖑𝖛𝖊𝖘." ― Sotha Sil
PC/NA1 -
Pixiepumpkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭"the Dwemer were believed to be sized similarly to the average elf or human, though occasionally likened to large children with beards."
I read this as they were smaller than average.
Here's the quote from Herbane's Bestiary: Dwarven Automatons by Herebane: "The Dwarves have been extinct for many an age, and perhaps for the best. To see men and women the size of large children, all with beards, would be a most disturbing sight"
This was just an assumption, not a statement.
Regardless, its been noted and observed that they were the size of large children. It's also evident based on the world lore of what is accepted universally as a "dwarf", even in real life terms a dwarf is a small person.
"Contrary to many legends, archaeological evidence of known Dwemer ruins leads one to believe that they were about the same size as the typical human or elf, evidenced by the fact that all existing Dwarven armor is average sized (although some claim that "Dwarven armor" is either the outer shells of machines or mismatched pieces from various devices). According to fable, the moniker "dwarf" may have been given long ago by the giants to their "little" friends. Imperial excavation of Dwemer ruins supports the Dlyxexic theory that the translation of Dwemer as Deep Elves might also be read as Smart Elves. Indeed, perhaps the brilliant students of the Ehlnofey mentioned in The Anuad are the Dwarves themselves. Purported descriptions of the last living Dwemer cannot be relied upon, as he was admittedly bloated and deformed by Corprus, and the only other visual examples come from sculptures and Dwarven Spectres found in their ruined dwellings. It can be deduced, however, that long beards were popular among the lost elves, and they preferred heavy metal armors and robes. Their remaining features could be described similarly to that of the other elven races, as no specific information exists."
Lore:Dwemer
Ruins_of_Kemel-Ze
Dialog of Hasphat_Antabolis
I already quoted that. It's a book by a nord (same height as altmer) adventurer who compiled a bestiary, not a historian. He assumed that even women had beards, which we have no proof of in other sources, which describe dwemer too look like other mer.
1.As I have already stated. They were called dwarves for a reason, and its not because they were giants or even the same size as other races. There would be no reason to call them dwarves (referenced as being dwarves by more than giants). This is a simple logical conclusion.
2. I do not vision them as being knee high, but noticeably smaller than other races. As evident of them being called dwarves universally.
There is more evidence suggesting they were smaller, than suggests they were the same size as everyone else.
Please link that evidence.
why evidence, they are called dwarves, that is good evidence"𝕰𝖛𝖊𝖓 𝕲𝖔𝖉𝖘 𝖉𝖎𝖘𝖑𝖎𝖐𝖊 𝖙𝖍𝖊 𝖆𝖇𝖘𝖔𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖊, 𝖋𝖔𝖗 𝖎𝖙 𝖘𝖙𝖎𝖓𝖐𝖘 𝖔𝖋 𝖘𝖔𝖒𝖊𝖙𝖍𝖎𝖓𝖌 𝖑𝖆𝖗𝖌𝖊𝖗 𝖙𝖍𝖆𝖓 𝖙𝖍𝖊𝖒𝖘𝖊𝖑𝖛𝖊𝖘." ― Sotha Sil
PC/NA1 -
nukk3r✭✭✭✭✭
✭Pixiepumpkin wrote: »"the Dwemer were believed to be sized similarly to the average elf or human, though occasionally likened to large children with beards."
I read this as they were smaller than average.
Here's the quote from Herbane's Bestiary: Dwarven Automatons by Herebane: "The Dwarves have been extinct for many an age, and perhaps for the best. To see men and women the size of large children, all with beards, would be a most disturbing sight"
This was just an assumption, not a statement.
Regardless, its been noted and observed that they were the size of large children. It's also evident based on the world lore of what is accepted universally as a "dwarf", even in real life terms a dwarf is a small person.
"Contrary to many legends, archaeological evidence of known Dwemer ruins leads one to believe that they were about the same size as the typical human or elf, evidenced by the fact that all existing Dwarven armor is average sized (although some claim that "Dwarven armor" is either the outer shells of machines or mismatched pieces from various devices). According to fable, the moniker "dwarf" may have been given long ago by the giants to their "little" friends. Imperial excavation of Dwemer ruins supports the Dlyxexic theory that the translation of Dwemer as Deep Elves might also be read as Smart Elves. Indeed, perhaps the brilliant students of the Ehlnofey mentioned in The Anuad are the Dwarves themselves. Purported descriptions of the last living Dwemer cannot be relied upon, as he was admittedly bloated and deformed by Corprus, and the only other visual examples come from sculptures and Dwarven Spectres found in their ruined dwellings. It can be deduced, however, that long beards were popular among the lost elves, and they preferred heavy metal armors and robes. Their remaining features could be described similarly to that of the other elven races, as no specific information exists."
Lore:Dwemer
Ruins_of_Kemel-Ze
Dialog of Hasphat_Antabolis
I already quoted that. It's a book by a nord (same height as altmer) adventurer who compiled a bestiary, not a historian. He assumed that even women had beards, which we have no proof of in other sources, which describe dwemer too look like other mer.
1.As I have already stated. They were called dwarves for a reason, and its not because they were giants or even the same size as other races. There would be no reason to call them dwarves (referenced as being dwarves by more than giants). This is a simple logical conclusion.
2. I do not vision them as being knee high, but noticeably smaller than other races. As evident of them being called dwarves universally.
There is more evidence suggesting they were smaller, than suggests they were the same size as everyone else.
Please link that evidence.
why evidence, they are called dwarves, that is good evidence
They are dwe-mer, deep elves.4 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Pixiepumpkin wrote: »"the Dwemer were believed to be sized similarly to the average elf or human, though occasionally likened to large children with beards."
I read this as they were smaller than average.
Here's the quote from Herbane's Bestiary: Dwarven Automatons by Herebane: "The Dwarves have been extinct for many an age, and perhaps for the best. To see men and women the size of large children, all with beards, would be a most disturbing sight"
This was just an assumption, not a statement.
Regardless, its been noted and observed that they were the size of large children. It's also evident based on the world lore of what is accepted universally as a "dwarf", even in real life terms a dwarf is a small person.
"Contrary to many legends, archaeological evidence of known Dwemer ruins leads one to believe that they were about the same size as the typical human or elf, evidenced by the fact that all existing Dwarven armor is average sized (although some claim that "Dwarven armor" is either the outer shells of machines or mismatched pieces from various devices). According to fable, the moniker "dwarf" may have been given long ago by the giants to their "little" friends. Imperial excavation of Dwemer ruins supports the Dlyxexic theory that the translation of Dwemer as Deep Elves might also be read as Smart Elves. Indeed, perhaps the brilliant students of the Ehlnofey mentioned in The Anuad are the Dwarves themselves. Purported descriptions of the last living Dwemer cannot be relied upon, as he was admittedly bloated and deformed by Corprus, and the only other visual examples come from sculptures and Dwarven Spectres found in their ruined dwellings. It can be deduced, however, that long beards were popular among the lost elves, and they preferred heavy metal armors and robes. Their remaining features could be described similarly to that of the other elven races, as no specific information exists."
Lore:Dwemer
Ruins_of_Kemel-Ze
Dialog of Hasphat_Antabolis
I already quoted that. It's a book by a nord (same height as altmer) adventurer who compiled a bestiary, not a historian. He assumed that even women had beards, which we have no proof of in other sources, which describe dwemer too look like other mer.
1.As I have already stated. They were called dwarves for a reason, and its not because they were giants or even the same size as other races. There would be no reason to call them dwarves (referenced as being dwarves by more than giants). This is a simple logical conclusion.
2. I do not vision them as being knee high, but noticeably smaller than other races. As evident of them being called dwarves universally.
There is more evidence suggesting they were smaller, than suggests they were the same size as everyone else.
Please link that evidence.
why evidence, they are called dwarves, that is good evidence
They are dwe-mer, deep elves.
and called dwarves1 -
nukk3r✭✭✭✭✭
✭Pixiepumpkin wrote: »"the Dwemer were believed to be sized similarly to the average elf or human, though occasionally likened to large children with beards."
I read this as they were smaller than average.
Here's the quote from Herbane's Bestiary: Dwarven Automatons by Herebane: "The Dwarves have been extinct for many an age, and perhaps for the best. To see men and women the size of large children, all with beards, would be a most disturbing sight"
This was just an assumption, not a statement.
Regardless, its been noted and observed that they were the size of large children. It's also evident based on the world lore of what is accepted universally as a "dwarf", even in real life terms a dwarf is a small person.
"Contrary to many legends, archaeological evidence of known Dwemer ruins leads one to believe that they were about the same size as the typical human or elf, evidenced by the fact that all existing Dwarven armor is average sized (although some claim that "Dwarven armor" is either the outer shells of machines or mismatched pieces from various devices). According to fable, the moniker "dwarf" may have been given long ago by the giants to their "little" friends. Imperial excavation of Dwemer ruins supports the Dlyxexic theory that the translation of Dwemer as Deep Elves might also be read as Smart Elves. Indeed, perhaps the brilliant students of the Ehlnofey mentioned in The Anuad are the Dwarves themselves. Purported descriptions of the last living Dwemer cannot be relied upon, as he was admittedly bloated and deformed by Corprus, and the only other visual examples come from sculptures and Dwarven Spectres found in their ruined dwellings. It can be deduced, however, that long beards were popular among the lost elves, and they preferred heavy metal armors and robes. Their remaining features could be described similarly to that of the other elven races, as no specific information exists."
Lore:Dwemer
Ruins_of_Kemel-Ze
Dialog of Hasphat_Antabolis
I already quoted that. It's a book by a nord (same height as altmer) adventurer who compiled a bestiary, not a historian. He assumed that even women had beards, which we have no proof of in other sources, which describe dwemer too look like other mer.
1.As I have already stated. They were called dwarves for a reason, and its not because they were giants or even the same size as other races. There would be no reason to call them dwarves (referenced as being dwarves by more than giants). This is a simple logical conclusion.
2. I do not vision them as being knee high, but noticeably smaller than other races. As evident of them being called dwarves universally.
There is more evidence suggesting they were smaller, than suggests they were the same size as everyone else.
Please link that evidence.
why evidence, they are called dwarves, that is good evidence
They are dwe-mer, deep elves.
and called dwarves
And orsimer are called pig children but they have nothing to do with pigs. [snip]
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Lunar on December 2, 2020 4:36PM4 -
SidraWillowsky✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Pixiepumpkin wrote: »"the Dwemer were believed to be sized similarly to the average elf or human, though occasionally likened to large children with beards."
I read this as they were smaller than average.
Here's the quote from Herbane's Bestiary: Dwarven Automatons by Herebane: "The Dwarves have been extinct for many an age, and perhaps for the best. To see men and women the size of large children, all with beards, would be a most disturbing sight"
This was just an assumption, not a statement.
Regardless, its been noted and observed that they were the size of large children. It's also evident based on the world lore of what is accepted universally as a "dwarf", even in real life terms a dwarf is a small person.
"Contrary to many legends, archaeological evidence of known Dwemer ruins leads one to believe that they were about the same size as the typical human or elf, evidenced by the fact that all existing Dwarven armor is average sized (although some claim that "Dwarven armor" is either the outer shells of machines or mismatched pieces from various devices). According to fable, the moniker "dwarf" may have been given long ago by the giants to their "little" friends. Imperial excavation of Dwemer ruins supports the Dlyxexic theory that the translation of Dwemer as Deep Elves might also be read as Smart Elves. Indeed, perhaps the brilliant students of the Ehlnofey mentioned in The Anuad are the Dwarves themselves. Purported descriptions of the last living Dwemer cannot be relied upon, as he was admittedly bloated and deformed by Corprus, and the only other visual examples come from sculptures and Dwarven Spectres found in their ruined dwellings. It can be deduced, however, that long beards were popular among the lost elves, and they preferred heavy metal armors and robes. Their remaining features could be described similarly to that of the other elven races, as no specific information exists."
Lore:Dwemer
Ruins_of_Kemel-Ze
Dialog of Hasphat_Antabolis
I already quoted that. It's a book by a nord (same height as altmer) adventurer who compiled a bestiary, not a historian. He assumed that even women had beards, which we have no proof of in other sources, which describe dwemer too look like other mer.
1.As I have already stated. They were called dwarves for a reason, and its not because they were giants or even the same size as other races. There would be no reason to call them dwarves (referenced as being dwarves by more than giants). This is a simple logical conclusion.
2. I do not vision them as being knee high, but noticeably smaller than other races. As evident of them being called dwarves universally.
There is more evidence suggesting they were smaller, than suggests they were the same size as everyone else.
Please link that evidence.
why evidence, they are called dwarves, that is good evidence
They are dwe-mer, deep elves.
and called dwarves
https://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/435by1/so_why_are_the_dwemer_called_dwarves/0 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I said this in another thread but ZOS does not have to create a new Dwemmer race (and break the lore). Players can just create them with the tools given to us right now.
2 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭SidraWillowsky wrote: »Pixiepumpkin wrote: »"the Dwemer were believed to be sized similarly to the average elf or human, though occasionally likened to large children with beards."
I read this as they were smaller than average.
Here's the quote from Herbane's Bestiary: Dwarven Automatons by Herebane: "The Dwarves have been extinct for many an age, and perhaps for the best. To see men and women the size of large children, all with beards, would be a most disturbing sight"
This was just an assumption, not a statement.
Regardless, its been noted and observed that they were the size of large children. It's also evident based on the world lore of what is accepted universally as a "dwarf", even in real life terms a dwarf is a small person.
"Contrary to many legends, archaeological evidence of known Dwemer ruins leads one to believe that they were about the same size as the typical human or elf, evidenced by the fact that all existing Dwarven armor is average sized (although some claim that "Dwarven armor" is either the outer shells of machines or mismatched pieces from various devices). According to fable, the moniker "dwarf" may have been given long ago by the giants to their "little" friends. Imperial excavation of Dwemer ruins supports the Dlyxexic theory that the translation of Dwemer as Deep Elves might also be read as Smart Elves. Indeed, perhaps the brilliant students of the Ehlnofey mentioned in The Anuad are the Dwarves themselves. Purported descriptions of the last living Dwemer cannot be relied upon, as he was admittedly bloated and deformed by Corprus, and the only other visual examples come from sculptures and Dwarven Spectres found in their ruined dwellings. It can be deduced, however, that long beards were popular among the lost elves, and they preferred heavy metal armors and robes. Their remaining features could be described similarly to that of the other elven races, as no specific information exists."
Lore:Dwemer
Ruins_of_Kemel-Ze
Dialog of Hasphat_Antabolis
I already quoted that. It's a book by a nord (same height as altmer) adventurer who compiled a bestiary, not a historian. He assumed that even women had beards, which we have no proof of in other sources, which describe dwemer too look like other mer.
1.As I have already stated. They were called dwarves for a reason, and its not because they were giants or even the same size as other races. There would be no reason to call them dwarves (referenced as being dwarves by more than giants). This is a simple logical conclusion.
2. I do not vision them as being knee high, but noticeably smaller than other races. As evident of them being called dwarves universally.
There is more evidence suggesting they were smaller, than suggests they were the same size as everyone else.
Please link that evidence.
why evidence, they are called dwarves, that is good evidence
They are dwe-mer, deep elves.
and called dwarves
https://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/435by1/so_why_are_the_dwemer_called_dwarves/
1 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Bringing back Dragons for a time I can understand since there are still dragons alive, but bringing back the Dwemer for a time? You do understand there is a Dwemer still alive walking Nirn trying to find his lost kin, and his name is Yagrum Bagarn. Only reason he didn't vanish is because he was exploring one of the realms of Oblivion when his people vanished without a trace.
If the Dwemer became a playable race his whole story arc would have to be thrown away and lore rewritten. It would be a massive lore break so big many wouldn't stand for it. You saw the disappointment and complaints that happened when ZOS changed the Bosmer racials, and of course Argonians being the way they are now. It wouldn't go over very well at all.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK6 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Bringing back Dragons for a time I can understand since there are still dragons alive, but bringing back the Dwemer for a time? You do understand there is a Dwemer still alive walking Nirn trying to find his lost kin, and his name is Yagrum Bagarn. Only reason he didn't vanish is because he was exploring one of the realms of Oblivion when his people vanished without a trace.
If the Dwemer became a playable race his whole story arc would have to be thrown away and lore rewritten. It would be a massive lore break so big many wouldn't stand for it. You saw the disappointment and complaints that happened when ZOS changed the Bosmer racials, and of course Argonians being the way they are now. It wouldn't go over very well at all.
No it would not if it were a subset, a different dwemer clan. I mean there are a million ways to go without disrupting the lore, I am actually astonished so few can brainstorm these ideas.
1 -
caperb✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dwemer don't exist anymore, they zero-summed themself. This means they can't return either because well, they don't exist.1 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Dwemer don't exist anymore, they zero-summed themself. This means they can't return either because well, they don't exist.
There is one that still exists, no one knows the entirety of history, nor has all of it been recorded. If one dwemer can exist, it exists within the realm of possibility that others do.1 -
Wolfpaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I love playing small characters in games (sadly my GF does not share my passion for smaller races). I absolutely love the Dwemer aesthetic be it the older darker stone, or the newer white/gold style. Dwemer are imo the coolest race in the Elder Scrolls universe.
Their lore, be it mysterious and not documented in it's entirety, could easily be worked into ESO as it takes place 740+ years before Morrowind. There is no reason in that time that a small Dwemer enclave is discovered after an earthquake in Vvardenfell (tons of potential for a yearly chapter) introducing dwemer as a playable race, an "engineer" as a class, underground environments to explore without taking up map space for future chapters, and all the other goodness that comes with Dwemer. The end of ESO could "Wrap up" the dwemer introduction so that there is no continuity loss into morrowind.
I created a Dwemer Automaton to pay homage to Dwemer, but it would be amazing to see Dwemer fleshed out a bit more lore wise even if its for a brief period.
Anyway, I love Dwemer so just sharing my thoughts.
Anything but more skinny annoying elves. I would play one of these in a heartbeat, they remind me of dwarves.3 -
SidraWillowsky✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Bringing back Dragons for a time I can understand since there are still dragons alive, but bringing back the Dwemer for a time? You do understand there is a Dwemer still alive walking Nirn trying to find his lost kin, and his name is Yagrum Bagarn. Only reason he didn't vanish is because he was exploring one of the realms of Oblivion when his people vanished without a trace.
If the Dwemer became a playable race his whole story arc would have to be thrown away and lore rewritten. It would be a massive lore break so big many wouldn't stand for it. You saw the disappointment and complaints that happened when ZOS changed the Bosmer racials, and of course Argonians being the way they are now. It wouldn't go over very well at all.
And to bring it back in an ESO chapter would cause the lore community to have a collective aneurysm. I get that ESO is canon, but to introduce something so massive in a game that a lot of lore fanatics don't play would cause people to riot.1 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭SidraWillowsky wrote: »Bringing back Dragons for a time I can understand since there are still dragons alive, but bringing back the Dwemer for a time? You do understand there is a Dwemer still alive walking Nirn trying to find his lost kin, and his name is Yagrum Bagarn. Only reason he didn't vanish is because he was exploring one of the realms of Oblivion when his people vanished without a trace.
If the Dwemer became a playable race his whole story arc would have to be thrown away and lore rewritten. It would be a massive lore break so big many wouldn't stand for it. You saw the disappointment and complaints that happened when ZOS changed the Bosmer racials, and of course Argonians being the way they are now. It wouldn't go over very well at all.
And to bring it back in an ESO chapter would cause the lore community to have a collective aneurysm. I get that ESO is canon, but to introduce something so massive in a game that a lot of lore fanatics don't play would cause people to riot.
Who pays the bills, the lore community or the masses who just want to consume cool content?
But secondly, none of the lore has to be retconned or changed. Dwemer can easily be written into the current lore without disrupting the rest of the lore.1 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Yes it would, because we know what happens in the future.
The dwarves suddenly showing back up again, and the disappearing again, and none of them leaving any written record of their time back... For the lore it is just stupidly, needlessly awkward, at best.
Just create one from one of the current races and RP your heart out. Everything would be fine.Edited by BlueRaven on December 2, 2020 4:49PM10 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Yes it would, because we know what happens in the future.
The dwarves suddenly showing back up again, and the disappearing again, and none of them leaving any written record of their time back... For the lore it is just stupidly, needlessly awkward, at best.
Just make create one from one of the current races and RP your heart out. Everything would be fine.
Go re-read my posts. I never suggested the entirety of dwemer, but a pocket of them. Lots of ways to write them in without disrupting the lore.2 -
Olauron✭✭✭✭✭
✭
And that is the only thing we need to know. What would a nord know about dwemer? Ask Vivec, he has been there and saw them. Ask Almalexia, she has been there and saw them. A nord? He has negative credibility."the Dwemer were believed to be sized similarly to the average elf or human, though occasionally likened to large children with beards."
I read this as they were smaller than average.
Here's the quote from Herbane's Bestiary: Dwarven Automatons by Herebane: "The Dwarves have been extinct for many an age, and perhaps for the best. To see men and women the size of large children, all with beards, would be a most disturbing sight"
This was just an assumption, not a statement.
Regardless, its been noted and observed that they were the size of large children. It's also evident based on the world lore of what is accepted universally as a "dwarf", even in real life terms a dwarf is a small person.
"Contrary to many legends, archaeological evidence of known Dwemer ruins leads one to believe that they were about the same size as the typical human or elf, evidenced by the fact that all existing Dwarven armor is average sized (although some claim that "Dwarven armor" is either the outer shells of machines or mismatched pieces from various devices). According to fable, the moniker "dwarf" may have been given long ago by the giants to their "little" friends. Imperial excavation of Dwemer ruins supports the Dlyxexic theory that the translation of Dwemer as Deep Elves might also be read as Smart Elves. Indeed, perhaps the brilliant students of the Ehlnofey mentioned in The Anuad are the Dwarves themselves. Purported descriptions of the last living Dwemer cannot be relied upon, as he was admittedly bloated and deformed by Corprus, and the only other visual examples come from sculptures and Dwarven Spectres found in their ruined dwellings. It can be deduced, however, that long beards were popular among the lost elves, and they preferred heavy metal armors and robes. Their remaining features could be described similarly to that of the other elven races, as no specific information exists."
Lore:Dwemer
Ruins_of_Kemel-Ze
Dialog of Hasphat_Antabolis
I already quoted that. It's a book by a nord
P.S. By the way, even in ESO there is at least one dwemer ghost. Looks like he is not short.
Not to mention unnamed proper ones.Edited by Olauron on December 2, 2020 5:10PMThe Three Storm Sharks, episode 8 released on january the 8th.
One mer to rule them all,
one mer to find them,
One mer to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them.7 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Yes it would, because we know what happens in the future.
The dwarves suddenly showing back up again, and the disappearing again, and none of them leaving any written record of their time back... For the lore it is just stupidly, needlessly awkward, at best.
Just make create one from one of the current races and RP your heart out. Everything would be fine.
Go re-read my posts. I never suggested the entirety of dwemer, but a pocket of them. Lots of ways to write them in without disrupting the lore.
It does not matter even if it’s just one of them. It’s a big deal if it were to happen. A BIG deal. A lot of lore gets thrown out the window if that were to happen.
There are at least three major npcs in game who are actively trying to figure out the mysteries of the dwarves currently. If they could just go and ask questions to a living one, then what is their purpose?
There are burning question right now about how they did things, like make their constructs and the like. These could all be answered. But we KNOW they won’t be.9
