Account Wide Titles or Achievements

Nordic__Knights

Dragonnord wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Xebov wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

You get vMA Flawless Conqueror with your OP Magblade (so easy, right?) or with your easy mode one button Magsorc heavy attack build but, however, you stink using your Stamden, and you want your Stamden to have the achievement too, even when you can't get vMA no death with him/her?
 

So who cares about that? Flawless Conquerer is always brought up during these discussions and its a completely overrated title. The majority of players have no idea what it is and also dont realy care. Its rarely that i ever read titles from players to begin with because there is no reason to do so. Also additionally your argument could even be used against you. If someone did the Achievment years ago when it was alot harder they could complain that you get it nowadays with alot less efford. So not realy an argument here.

I used vMA just as an example, so call it vMA, Fongal Grotto 1 normal or whatever you like; if your charater didn't complete it then it doesn't deserve the title. A Magblade that has Godslayer is a Magblade that has Godslayer, a Stamblade that didn't put a foot in Fungal Grotto is a Stamblade that didn't put a foot in Fungal Grotto. Period.

Easy mode build characters SHOULD NOT give the titles or achievements to other characters that haven't or can't complete the content. You want it, do it, complete it. Period.

PS: And if vMA is easy or it was easier before or now, that's not the discussion in this thread.

same could be said about your cp too your new toon didnt earn them yet you use them or that VMA staff you got with one toon yet another uses it , or that trials gear you run on an toon that has never done an trial before , or the mount , pet ect ect . this BUT THAT TOON DIDNT EARN IT IS NOT AN REASON TO SAY NO AS TOONS USE LOTS OF THINGS THEY DIDNT EARN

There are always exceptions that have to be made, or can you imagine having to level up every single alt to 810CP? This game would probably have 15,000 players instead of 15 million if so.

And some other things can be shared between characters, just like yes; items, mounts, etc.

BUT titles and completions? Nah! Complete the thing, get the title, get the achievement WITH THAT SPECIFIC character.

i had 3 VR16 toons before CP change and had CP stayed the same way as VR all 3 of them would had been played up to 810cp but giving CP made all toon share cp i just started making other toons at that point my 1st 3 toons was 1 tank 1 healer 1dps so that i could cover any place my team needed

and if you look at my way to put into play each toon would still have achievements to do just the POINTS would get awarded to 1st toon to do them so that players could say ok these achievement points are LOCKED I NEED TO DO IT or hey i like this achievement ( no points to gain) think ill go do it because I LIKED IT not that they NEED it

tomofhyrule

The big argument here is some people see their characters as tools - "I can do this easier on my stamcro so let me get that one with this guy," versus the people who see their characters as people - "My main is my strongest tank, so let me run dungeons with him."

It seems like the difference between how people talk about doing the content: "I cleared HM MoS" vs. "[Character name] cleared HM MoS."

There's also the two schools of "Global achieves would make me more likely to play multiple characters because then I don't have to worry about rebuilding toon X to do content Y," versus "Global achieves would make me less likely to play multiple characters, since I have nothing to strive for for my alts since it's all done already."

I like to see the achievement panel as a record of each character. I wouldn't object to a global achievement panel for others (then I wouldn't need to worry about making my good guy character do the TG/DB questlines), but I want to be able to see a list of what a specific character has done. Maybe keep the achievements tab the same, but then have a global one on the character select screen that will take credit from all characters. And then when you're in craglorn linking achieves for PUG trials, you can link it and it will say "done on another character" or something.

Now I do think that grindy achievements are annoying (monster trophies with their stupid low drop rate), and there are some things I just won't be able to get on my main (I think I can get around 7k DPS since I main a tank, so vVH and vMA are definitely out of reach). This means that I should play alt characters, so I've got a DPS in planning (if ZOS would ever release Short Mussed Wave, but that's another story). I'm okay with the fact that one character can't do everything, but I am one of the people who sees my characters as individuals and not just tools.

Saubon

Tandor wrote: »

Saubon wrote: »

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

This request comes up a lot, but at least you've made some reasonable arguments.

I respectfully disagree. I don't want account wide achievements. I do farm achievements on one character, who respecs to earn achievements that require a different build.

My other 17 characters didn't earn all those achievements, they earned their own by doing what they've individually done.

The achievements and titles are a record of what each character has done, which I quite like. Account wide progress is an often requested feature so I expect it will happen eventually.

Players earn achievements, not characters. If someone complete HM trial on their main, you can expect they can do it with their alts.

I play 1 mag DD, 1stam DD, 2 tanks, I have 3 characters I play only in BGs. Only one of those characters have over 20k achievement points just because they are spread over my account.

If that is true, why don't those who promote that argument for achievements also ask for account-wide experience and quest completions? Surely when one character has done a stage in the main story quest all the other characters should get the skill point and Soul Magic advancement, because it was the player who did it, right?

I have no issue with shared exp and quests either. I just didn't suggested this because soul magic skill line and similar things are part of crown store, so this isn't going to happen for sure.

idk

Dragonnord wrote: »

Xebov wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

You get vMA Flawless Conqueror with your OP Magblade (so easy, right?) or with your easy mode one button Magsorc heavy attack build but, however, you stink using your Stamden, and you want your Stamden to have the achievement too, even when you can't get vMA no death with him/her?
 

So who cares about that? Flawless Conquerer is always brought up during these discussions and its a completely overrated title. The majority of players have no idea what it is and also dont realy care. Its rarely that i ever read titles from players to begin with because there is no reason to do so. Also additionally your argument could even be used against you. If someone did the Achievment years ago when it was alot harder they could complain that you get it nowadays with alot less efford. So not realy an argument here.

I used vMA just as an example, so call it vMA, Fongal Grotto 1 normal or whatever you like; if your charater didn't complete it then it doesn't deserve the title. A Magblade that has Godslayer is a Magblade that has Godslayer, a Stamblade that didn't put a foot in Fungal Grotto is a Stamblade that didn't put a foot in Fungal Grotto. Period.

Easy mode build characters SHOULD NOT give the titles or achievements to other characters that haven't or can't complete the content. You want it, do it, complete it. Period.

PS: And if vMA is easy or it was easier before or now, that's not the discussion in this thread.

And that magblade will have the title Godslayer but none of their alts who have not obtained it will not have the title. This is very much how SWTOR did it and it worked well. In SWTOR only characters that completed the raid and objectives in Nightmare mode have the titles but the account shows the achievement. It works great.

The most important part is I do not see any reasoning provided here as to how account-wide achievements harm anyone. Without that there is no real justification to not have them.

Edit:
What is funny is the same people that do not want account-wide achievements would probably be upset if the gear was no longer account-wide. The same argument can be made. Easy mode build characters SHOULD NOT give gear or weapons to other characters that haven't or can't complete the content. You want it, do it, complete it, Period.

It is interesting how that works.

Nordic__Knights

idk wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Xebov wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

You get vMA Flawless Conqueror with your OP Magblade (so easy, right?) or with your easy mode one button Magsorc heavy attack build but, however, you stink using your Stamden, and you want your Stamden to have the achievement too, even when you can't get vMA no death with him/her?
 

So who cares about that? Flawless Conquerer is always brought up during these discussions and its a completely overrated title. The majority of players have no idea what it is and also dont realy care. Its rarely that i ever read titles from players to begin with because there is no reason to do so. Also additionally your argument could even be used against you. If someone did the Achievment years ago when it was alot harder they could complain that you get it nowadays with alot less efford. So not realy an argument here.

I used vMA just as an example, so call it vMA, Fongal Grotto 1 normal or whatever you like; if your charater didn't complete it then it doesn't deserve the title. A Magblade that has Godslayer is a Magblade that has Godslayer, a Stamblade that didn't put a foot in Fungal Grotto is a Stamblade that didn't put a foot in Fungal Grotto. Period.

Easy mode build characters SHOULD NOT give the titles or achievements to other characters that haven't or can't complete the content. You want it, do it, complete it. Period.

PS: And if vMA is easy or it was easier before or now, that's not the discussion in this thread.

And that magblade will have the title Godslayer but none of their alts who have not obtained it will not have the title. This is very much how SWTOR did it and it worked well. In SWTOR only characters that completed the raid and objectives in Nightmare mode have the titles but the account shows the achievement. It works great.

The most important part is I do not see any reasoning provided here as to how account-wide achievements harm anyone. Without that there is no real justification to not have them.

Edit:
What is funny is the same people that do not want account-wide achievements would probably be upset if the gear was no longer account-wide. The same argument can be made. Easy mode build characters SHOULD NOT give gear or weapons to other characters that haven't or can't complete the content. You want it, do it, complete it, Period.

It is interesting how that works.

they are most likely the same ones that in 2015 wanted shared VR ranks to that lead us into the CP system that made CP shared between all toons of their account but no-way is shared achievement points ok lol

crosstiger

Im on the account wide everything side.

Can someone make a poll?

WeerW3ir

Oh really

idk wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Xebov wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

You get vMA Flawless Conqueror with your OP Magblade (so easy, right?) or with your easy mode one button Magsorc heavy attack build but, however, you stink using your Stamden, and you want your Stamden to have the achievement too, even when you can't get vMA no death with him/her?
 

So who cares about that? Flawless Conquerer is always brought up during these discussions and its a completely overrated title. The majority of players have no idea what it is and also dont realy care. Its rarely that i ever read titles from players to begin with because there is no reason to do so. Also additionally your argument could even be used against you. If someone did the Achievment years ago when it was alot harder they could complain that you get it nowadays with alot less efford. So not realy an argument here.

I used vMA just as an example, so call it vMA, Fongal Grotto 1 normal or whatever you like; if your charater didn't complete it then it doesn't deserve the title. A Magblade that has Godslayer is a Magblade that has Godslayer, a Stamblade that didn't put a foot in Fungal Grotto is a Stamblade that didn't put a foot in Fungal Grotto. Period.

Easy mode build characters SHOULD NOT give the titles or achievements to other characters that haven't or can't complete the content. You want it, do it, complete it. Period.

PS: And if vMA is easy or it was easier before or now, that's not the discussion in this thread.

And that magblade will have the title Godslayer but none of their alts who have not obtained it will not have the title. This is very much how SWTOR did it and it worked well. In SWTOR only characters that completed the raid and objectives in Nightmare mode have the titles but the account shows the achievement. It works great.

The most important part is I do not see any reasoning provided here as to how account-wide achievements harm anyone. Without that there is no real justification to not have them.

Edit:
What is funny is the same people that do not want account-wide achievements would probably be upset if the gear was no longer account-wide. The same argument can be made. Easy mode build characters SHOULD NOT give gear or weapons to other characters that haven't or can't complete the content. You want it, do it, complete it, Period.

It is interesting how that works.

Whats next? Account wide lvl? Account wide quest progress? "Oh no. I cannot lvl up 50 level. We need instant 50 level and all zones and quests must be done ".

Seriously people. Stop being so spoiled...

So i say a big no. This is an mmo. Wow, gw2 etc does not have account wide achievements neither quests. We do not need either here!!!

Saubon

WeerW3ir wrote: »

So i say a big no. This is an mmo. Wow, gw2 etc does not have account wide achievements neither quests. We do not need either here!!!

Afaik wow does have account wide achievements. SWTOR same. FF XIV went even further and you can have all the classes on your main character so there is literally no reason for making and leveling alts.

Thechuckage

WeerW3ir wrote: »

Oh really

idk wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Xebov wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

You get vMA Flawless Conqueror with your OP Magblade (so easy, right?) or with your easy mode one button Magsorc heavy attack build but, however, you stink using your Stamden, and you want your Stamden to have the achievement too, even when you can't get vMA no death with him/her?
 

So who cares about that? Flawless Conquerer is always brought up during these discussions and its a completely overrated title. The majority of players have no idea what it is and also dont realy care. Its rarely that i ever read titles from players to begin with because there is no reason to do so. Also additionally your argument could even be used against you. If someone did the Achievment years ago when it was alot harder they could complain that you get it nowadays with alot less efford. So not realy an argument here.

I used vMA just as an example, so call it vMA, Fongal Grotto 1 normal or whatever you like; if your charater didn't complete it then it doesn't deserve the title. A Magblade that has Godslayer is a Magblade that has Godslayer, a Stamblade that didn't put a foot in Fungal Grotto is a Stamblade that didn't put a foot in Fungal Grotto. Period.

Easy mode build characters SHOULD NOT give the titles or achievements to other characters that haven't or can't complete the content. You want it, do it, complete it. Period.

PS: And if vMA is easy or it was easier before or now, that's not the discussion in this thread.

And that magblade will have the title Godslayer but none of their alts who have not obtained it will not have the title. This is very much how SWTOR did it and it worked well. In SWTOR only characters that completed the raid and objectives in Nightmare mode have the titles but the account shows the achievement. It works great.

The most important part is I do not see any reasoning provided here as to how account-wide achievements harm anyone. Without that there is no real justification to not have them.

Edit:
What is funny is the same people that do not want account-wide achievements would probably be upset if the gear was no longer account-wide. The same argument can be made. Easy mode build characters SHOULD NOT give gear or weapons to other characters that haven't or can't complete the content. You want it, do it, complete it, Period.

It is interesting how that works.

Whats next? Account wide lvl? Account wide quest progress? "Oh no. I cannot lvl up 50 level. We need instant 50 level and all zones and quests must be done ".

Seriously people. Stop being so spoiled...

So i say a big no. This is an mmo. Wow, gw2 etc does not have account wide achievements neither quests. We do not need either here!!!

Account wide lvl is just stupid on its face. The difference between completing a large task (quest chain) and an acknowledgement of hitting certain miles stones in that task (you've stopped the initial Lodos plague) are manifestly different. The fact that you are conflating quests and achieves as the same thing is absurd. That goes double for character levels.

Finally, GW2 absolutely does have account wide achieves. Some require a certain race or class to complete them, but they are all account wide.

thadjarvis

One data point in favor of toon focused achievements:

For dungeon and trial achievements, some players like to achieve them on different classes/roles etc. There's an incentive for those players to run/progress multiple times in which they help others that don't have it at all. Thus, there's a positive social community aspect there.


The compromise between the two camps:

If you have toon based achieves, you can create addons to satisfy account advocate. There are some, but you can take them further. Eg you might be able to create an add-on that would even add up the kill 10,000 of X's across multiple toons. If that is not available in the API, then ask for it.

Moreover, account based precludes tallying achievements by each toon. Toon based does not preclude tallying achievements by account. It also costs ZoS money to switch to account based. It wouldn't make any sense unless the vast majority wanted it.

Dragonnord

idk wrote: »

Account wide lvl is just stupid on its face. The difference between completing a large task (quest chain) and an acknowledgement of hitting certain miles stones in that task (you've stopped the initial Lodos plague) are manifestly different. The fact that you are conflating quests and achieves as the same thing is absurd. That goes double for character levels.

Finally, GW2 absolutely does have account wide achieves. Some require a certain race or class to complete them, but they are all account wide.

SWOTR, GW2, such succesful games, right? How many people are playing those games compared to TESO? That's why they lost hundreds thousands players, because they stink in many aspects. Don't put those game as good examples please.
 

WeerW3ir

Dosent matter. Eso is good as it is. We do not need it. [snip]

[Edited for Baiting]

Xebov

Dragonnord wrote: »

Xebov wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

You get vMA Flawless Conqueror with your OP Magblade (so easy, right?) or with your easy mode one button Magsorc heavy attack build but, however, you stink using your Stamden, and you want your Stamden to have the achievement too, even when you can't get vMA no death with him/her?
 

So who cares about that? Flawless Conquerer is always brought up during these discussions and its a completely overrated title. The majority of players have no idea what it is and also dont realy care. Its rarely that i ever read titles from players to begin with because there is no reason to do so. Also additionally your argument could even be used against you. If someone did the Achievment years ago when it was alot harder they could complain that you get it nowadays with alot less efford. So not realy an argument here.

I used vMA just as an example, so call it vMA, Fongal Grotto 1 normal or whatever you like; if your charater didn't complete it then it doesn't deserve the title. A Magblade that has Godslayer is a Magblade that has Godslayer, a Stamblade that didn't put a foot in Fungal Grotto is a Stamblade that didn't put a foot in Fungal Grotto. Period.

Easy mode build characters SHOULD NOT give the titles or achievements to other characters that haven't or can't complete the content. You want it, do it, complete it. Period.

PS: And if vMA is easy or it was easier before or now, that's not the discussion in this thread.

Vet dungeons and vet trials are a team efford. Who says that the guy that got it has it on his main? What is if he took one for the team and filled in a sport the team needed so he has it on another player?

I know 3 ppl that all main DDs, yet one has to be a healer for some of the vet DLC Achievments. So we are doing them twice in different configurations. Is it fair? Clearly no. Would it be preventable? Clearly yes.

Besides that you are free to use plenty of things otehr characters earned, that includes all Achievment rewards except for titles and all gear. Yet you say that the character doesnt deserve the title or Achievment? I hope you live by that and dont use anything on another character that they did not get themselves, but i guess you dont follow this yourself because its convenient.

Tandor

Xebov wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Xebov wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

You get vMA Flawless Conqueror with your OP Magblade (so easy, right?) or with your easy mode one button Magsorc heavy attack build but, however, you stink using your Stamden, and you want your Stamden to have the achievement too, even when you can't get vMA no death with him/her?
 

So who cares about that? Flawless Conquerer is always brought up during these discussions and its a completely overrated title. The majority of players have no idea what it is and also dont realy care. Its rarely that i ever read titles from players to begin with because there is no reason to do so. Also additionally your argument could even be used against you. If someone did the Achievment years ago when it was alot harder they could complain that you get it nowadays with alot less efford. So not realy an argument here.

I used vMA just as an example, so call it vMA, Fongal Grotto 1 normal or whatever you like; if your charater didn't complete it then it doesn't deserve the title. A Magblade that has Godslayer is a Magblade that has Godslayer, a Stamblade that didn't put a foot in Fungal Grotto is a Stamblade that didn't put a foot in Fungal Grotto. Period.

Easy mode build characters SHOULD NOT give the titles or achievements to other characters that haven't or can't complete the content. You want it, do it, complete it. Period.

PS: And if vMA is easy or it was easier before or now, that's not the discussion in this thread.

Vet dungeons and vet trials are a team efford. Who says that the guy that got it has it on his main? What is if he took one for the team and filled in a sport the team needed so he has it on another player?

I know 3 ppl that all main DDs, yet one has to be a healer for some of the vet DLC Achievments. So we are doing them twice in different configurations. Is it fair? Clearly no. Would it be preventable? Clearly yes.

Besides that you are free to use plenty of things otehr characters earned, that includes all Achievment rewards except for titles and all gear. Yet you say that the character doesnt deserve the title or Achievment? I hope you live by that and dont use anything on another character that they did not get themselves, but i guess you dont follow this yourself because its convenient.

Plenty of players don't allocate CPs to alts until they have reached level 50, and in other respects they probably mostly follow the structure of the game as it is because they know that some players want things to be character-specific, others want things to be account-wide, and they recognise that ZOS have struck a fair balance between the two approaches with no need to change that balance. The further compromise that I think pretty well everyone would accept, however, is the addition of an account achievement summary window on the character selection screen that would tell players what had been achieved across the account and by which characters.

Thechuckage

Dragonnord wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Account wide lvl is just stupid on its face. The difference between completing a large task (quest chain) and an acknowledgement of hitting certain miles stones in that task (you've stopped the initial Lodos plague) are manifestly different. The fact that you are conflating quests and achieves as the same thing is absurd. That goes double for character levels.

Finally, GW2 absolutely does have account wide achieves. Some require a certain race or class to complete them, but they are all account wide.

SWOTR, GW2, such succesful games, right? How many people are playing those games compared to TESO? That's why they lost hundreds thousands players, because they stink in many aspects. Don't put those game as good examples please.
 

A few things here - First you are quoting me, not IDK.

No idea on how SWTOR is doing these days, but GW2 is going just fine. Still getting new players and dropping an xpac. As for the total numbers, none of us know. And if you reeeeeally want to go off numbers, total revenue or something else; pretty sure WoW blows most of the competition out of the water.

Or are you suggesting that character based achieves are somehow the secret for success?

Dragonnord

Thechuckage wrote: »

Or are you suggesting that character based achieves are somehow the secret for success?

Just saying that using those empty servers games as examples to use in TESO is wrong.
 

idk

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Xebov wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

You get vMA Flawless Conqueror with your OP Magblade (so easy, right?) or with your easy mode one button Magsorc heavy attack build but, however, you stink using your Stamden, and you want your Stamden to have the achievement too, even when you can't get vMA no death with him/her?
 

So who cares about that? Flawless Conquerer is always brought up during these discussions and its a completely overrated title. The majority of players have no idea what it is and also dont realy care. Its rarely that i ever read titles from players to begin with because there is no reason to do so. Also additionally your argument could even be used against you. If someone did the Achievment years ago when it was alot harder they could complain that you get it nowadays with alot less efford. So not realy an argument here.

I used vMA just as an example, so call it vMA, Fongal Grotto 1 normal or whatever you like; if your charater didn't complete it then it doesn't deserve the title. A Magblade that has Godslayer is a Magblade that has Godslayer, a Stamblade that didn't put a foot in Fungal Grotto is a Stamblade that didn't put a foot in Fungal Grotto. Period.

Easy mode build characters SHOULD NOT give the titles or achievements to other characters that haven't or can't complete the content. You want it, do it, complete it. Period.

PS: And if vMA is easy or it was easier before or now, that's not the discussion in this thread.

And that magblade will have the title Godslayer but none of their alts who have not obtained it will not have the title. This is very much how SWTOR did it and it worked well. In SWTOR only characters that completed the raid and objectives in Nightmare mode have the titles but the account shows the achievement. It works great.

The most important part is I do not see any reasoning provided here as to how account-wide achievements harm anyone. Without that there is no real justification to not have them.

Edit:
What is funny is the same people that do not want account-wide achievements would probably be upset if the gear was no longer account-wide. The same argument can be made. Easy mode build characters SHOULD NOT give gear or weapons to other characters that haven't or can't complete the content. You want it, do it, complete it, Period.

It is interesting how that works.

they are most likely the same ones that in 2015 wanted shared VR ranks to that lead us into the CP system that made CP shared between all toons of their account but no-way is shared achievement points ok lol

I do not recall anyone asking for shared VR ranks. I do recall the original design of CP, as it was released, had no artificial cap. We could reach the full 3600 points and Zos even expected it would take the average player less than two years.

So, basically, it would not make sense to have CP be character bound. Even with the artificial cap Zos added it would still be dumb to require each character to grind 810 CP.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Dragonnord wrote: »

Thechuckage wrote: »

Or are you suggesting that character based achieves are somehow the secret for success?

Just saying that using those empty servers games as examples to use in TESO is wrong.
 

Except they aren't empty and WoW is definitely not, which also have had account wide achievments for ages. The way WoW does it is actually pretty good. They are accountwide, but characters can still unlock the achievments they don't have.

WeerW3ir wrote: »

So i say a big no. This is an mmo. Wow, gw2 etc does not have account wide achievements neither quests. We do not need either here!!!

*Snorts* Mentions mmos who have had account wide achievments for a long time

Thechuckage

Dragonnord wrote: »

Thechuckage wrote: »

Or are you suggesting that character based achieves are somehow the secret for success?

Just saying that using those empty servers games as examples to use in TESO is wrong.
 

I'm simply saying you are making baseless assertions as we do not have access to the metrics. At best we can give anecdotal evidence. As such, I can definitively say you are wrong.

idk

Dragonnord wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Account wide lvl is just stupid on its face. The difference between completing a large task (quest chain) and an acknowledgement of hitting certain miles stones in that task (you've stopped the initial Lodos plague) are manifestly different. The fact that you are conflating quests and achieves as the same thing is absurd. That goes double for character levels.

Finally, GW2 absolutely does have account wide achieves. Some require a certain race or class to complete them, but they are all account wide.

SWOTR, GW2, such succesful games, right? How many people are playing those games compared to TESO? That's why they lost hundreds thousands players, because they stink in many aspects. Don't put those game as good examples please.
 

So you are suggesting the main reason ESO is so successful is because of their achievement system?

Oddly you seem to support they failed in many ways which have nothing to do with their achievement system.

Aznarb

Dragonnord wrote: »

This request again?

Here it goes my answer again, for time 101 (yes, 101 because my answer 100 was just a few days ago on another similar thread):

You get vMA Flawless Conqueror with your OP Magblade (so easy, right?) or with your easy mode one button Magsorc heavy attack build but, however, you stink using your Stamden, and you want your Stamden to have the achievement too, even when you can't get vMA no death with him/her?

Sorry, but don't agree with you OP.
 

101 Time you don't read other people suggestion, great

Nordic__Knights

idk wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Xebov wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

You get vMA Flawless Conqueror with your OP Magblade (so easy, right?) or with your easy mode one button Magsorc heavy attack build but, however, you stink using your Stamden, and you want your Stamden to have the achievement too, even when you can't get vMA no death with him/her?
 

So who cares about that? Flawless Conquerer is always brought up during these discussions and its a completely overrated title. The majority of players have no idea what it is and also dont realy care. Its rarely that i ever read titles from players to begin with because there is no reason to do so. Also additionally your argument could even be used against you. If someone did the Achievment years ago when it was alot harder they could complain that you get it nowadays with alot less efford. So not realy an argument here.

I used vMA just as an example, so call it vMA, Fongal Grotto 1 normal or whatever you like; if your charater didn't complete it then it doesn't deserve the title. A Magblade that has Godslayer is a Magblade that has Godslayer, a Stamblade that didn't put a foot in Fungal Grotto is a Stamblade that didn't put a foot in Fungal Grotto. Period.

Easy mode build characters SHOULD NOT give the titles or achievements to other characters that haven't or can't complete the content. You want it, do it, complete it. Period.

PS: And if vMA is easy or it was easier before or now, that's not the discussion in this thread.

And that magblade will have the title Godslayer but none of their alts who have not obtained it will not have the title. This is very much how SWTOR did it and it worked well. In SWTOR only characters that completed the raid and objectives in Nightmare mode have the titles but the account shows the achievement. It works great.

The most important part is I do not see any reasoning provided here as to how account-wide achievements harm anyone. Without that there is no real justification to not have them.

Edit:
What is funny is the same people that do not want account-wide achievements would probably be upset if the gear was no longer account-wide. The same argument can be made. Easy mode build characters SHOULD NOT give gear or weapons to other characters that haven't or can't complete the content. You want it, do it, complete it, Period.

It is interesting how that works.

they are most likely the same ones that in 2015 wanted shared VR ranks to that lead us into the CP system that made CP shared between all toons of their account but no-way is shared achievement points ok lol

I do not recall anyone asking for shared VR ranks. I do recall the original design of CP, as it was released, had no artificial cap. We could reach the full 3600 points and Zos even expected it would take the average player less than two years.

So, basically, it would not make sense to have CP be character bound. Even with the artificial cap Zos added it would still be dumb to require each character to grind 810 CP.

from release of ESO players have always wanted the easy way to things and have asked for everything from making lvl50 the max lvl to having skills put into store.
and when cp was un-caped everyone cried then too lol myself i set an goal hit 3600cp but that got lost due to cap and ive always been over cap by 150 to 200 cp each time they upped it before locking it at 810 , my ps4 account has 1411cp with 18 maxed toons due to that cap had they not put the cap more then likely i would had never moved from ps4 to pc but at 1411cp it started making me cry each time i got another worthless point



bottom-line to this for me is this making achievement points account wide hurts no one nor dose it give anyone the upper hand on things and after 7 years with so many changes been made that harmed classes and the add in of new classes ZOS should make them account wide but in an way that doesn't hurt other toons from doing them but at same time doesn't FORCE the player to do something thieve done already

and if 810cp is to much per toon how aint 45k achievement points ?

on tittles idc one way or the other for them for all i care trash them all as 99.9% of them can be got by carries anyhow so even they dont show players skill lvl but how much gold they can make to look good lol

karekiz

Achievement: - On Alt
Sunspire Conquerer (Dark if not finished on character yet) - However it will list
Completed on: <Insert character names here> on looking at and linking.

AlnilamE

Xebov wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Xebov wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

You get vMA Flawless Conqueror with your OP Magblade (so easy, right?) or with your easy mode one button Magsorc heavy attack build but, however, you stink using your Stamden, and you want your Stamden to have the achievement too, even when you can't get vMA no death with him/her?
 

So who cares about that? Flawless Conquerer is always brought up during these discussions and its a completely overrated title. The majority of players have no idea what it is and also dont realy care. Its rarely that i ever read titles from players to begin with because there is no reason to do so. Also additionally your argument could even be used against you. If someone did the Achievment years ago when it was alot harder they could complain that you get it nowadays with alot less efford. So not realy an argument here.

I used vMA just as an example, so call it vMA, Fongal Grotto 1 normal or whatever you like; if your charater didn't complete it then it doesn't deserve the title. A Magblade that has Godslayer is a Magblade that has Godslayer, a Stamblade that didn't put a foot in Fungal Grotto is a Stamblade that didn't put a foot in Fungal Grotto. Period.

Easy mode build characters SHOULD NOT give the titles or achievements to other characters that haven't or can't complete the content. You want it, do it, complete it. Period.

PS: And if vMA is easy or it was easier before or now, that's not the discussion in this thread.

Vet dungeons and vet trials are a team efford. Who says that the guy that got it has it on his main? What is if he took one for the team and filled in a sport the team needed so he has it on another player?

I know 3 ppl that all main DDs, yet one has to be a healer for some of the vet DLC Achievments. So we are doing them twice in different configurations. Is it fair? Clearly no. Would it be preventable? Clearly yes.

The honest answer to this would be for the team to take one for him too, and run the DLC again with swapped roles as often as necessary for everyone to get the achievement on their preferred character.

Besides that you are free to use plenty of things otehr characters earned, that includes all Achievment rewards except for titles and all gear. Yet you say that the character doesnt deserve the title or Achievment? I hope you live by that and dont use anything on another character that they did not get themselves, but i guess you dont follow this yourself because its convenient.

As I mentioned before, balance is the key here. Everything character-based and everything account-based are both extremes and would likely be unfun.

It all depends on how the game was designed. In ESO, the achievements were designed to be character-based.

If they ever become account-based, they will have to be completely overhauled and they will very likely become a lot more grindy (see GW2 for an example. Or Diablo III)

That said, if you look at GW2, for example, they have account-wide achievements, but all non-ascended gear is bound to your character on use and you cannot swap it to an alt once you've outleveled it. Heck, you can't even decon it or vendor it. It's very annoying.

So when you compare ESO to other games, you cannot just look at one aspect, you need to look at how that aspect fits the whole picture.

idk

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Xebov wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

You get vMA Flawless Conqueror with your OP Magblade (so easy, right?) or with your easy mode one button Magsorc heavy attack build but, however, you stink using your Stamden, and you want your Stamden to have the achievement too, even when you can't get vMA no death with him/her?
 

So who cares about that? Flawless Conquerer is always brought up during these discussions and its a completely overrated title. The majority of players have no idea what it is and also dont realy care. Its rarely that i ever read titles from players to begin with because there is no reason to do so. Also additionally your argument could even be used against you. If someone did the Achievment years ago when it was alot harder they could complain that you get it nowadays with alot less efford. So not realy an argument here.

I used vMA just as an example, so call it vMA, Fongal Grotto 1 normal or whatever you like; if your charater didn't complete it then it doesn't deserve the title. A Magblade that has Godslayer is a Magblade that has Godslayer, a Stamblade that didn't put a foot in Fungal Grotto is a Stamblade that didn't put a foot in Fungal Grotto. Period.

Easy mode build characters SHOULD NOT give the titles or achievements to other characters that haven't or can't complete the content. You want it, do it, complete it. Period.

PS: And if vMA is easy or it was easier before or now, that's not the discussion in this thread.

And that magblade will have the title Godslayer but none of their alts who have not obtained it will not have the title. This is very much how SWTOR did it and it worked well. In SWTOR only characters that completed the raid and objectives in Nightmare mode have the titles but the account shows the achievement. It works great.

The most important part is I do not see any reasoning provided here as to how account-wide achievements harm anyone. Without that there is no real justification to not have them.

Edit:
What is funny is the same people that do not want account-wide achievements would probably be upset if the gear was no longer account-wide. The same argument can be made. Easy mode build characters SHOULD NOT give gear or weapons to other characters that haven't or can't complete the content. You want it, do it, complete it, Period.

It is interesting how that works.

they are most likely the same ones that in 2015 wanted shared VR ranks to that lead us into the CP system that made CP shared between all toons of their account but no-way is shared achievement points ok lol

I do not recall anyone asking for shared VR ranks. I do recall the original design of CP, as it was released, had no artificial cap. We could reach the full 3600 points and Zos even expected it would take the average player less than two years.

So, basically, it would not make sense to have CP be character bound. Even with the artificial cap Zos added it would still be dumb to require each character to grind 810 CP.

and when cp was un-caped everyone cried then too lol ol

Everyone did not cry when Zos added the artificial cap on CP. When we tested this on the PTS we told Zos it was a poor design because the full 3600 points were like god mode. It would have been bad for the game and dumb at that to allow players to use all 3600 points without buffing the content significantly which would have made the grind to 3600 a waste of time.

Also, an account-wide achievement list does not make content easier. Titles still remain with the character that earned the title with what most of us have been suggesting.

What is amazing is it does not harm anyone.

Dragonnord

idk wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Account wide lvl is just stupid on its face. The difference between completing a large task (quest chain) and an acknowledgement of hitting certain miles stones in that task (you've stopped the initial Lodos plague) are manifestly different. The fact that you are conflating quests and achieves as the same thing is absurd. That goes double for character levels.

Finally, GW2 absolutely does have account wide achieves. Some require a certain race or class to complete them, but they are all account wide.

SWOTR, GW2, such succesful games, right? How many people are playing those games compared to TESO? That's why they lost hundreds thousands players, because they stink in many aspects. Don't put those game as good examples please.
 

So you are suggesting the main reason ESO is so successful is because of their achievement system?

Oddly you seem to support they failed in many ways which have nothing to do with their achievement system.

Nope, didn't say that at all.

Dragonnord

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Thechuckage wrote: »

Or are you suggesting that character based achieves are somehow the secret for success?

Just saying that using those empty servers games as examples to use in TESO is wrong.
 

Except they aren't empty and WoW is definitely not, which also have had account wide achievments for ages. The way WoW does it is actually pretty good. They are accountwide, but characters can still unlock the achievments they don't have.

99.9% of players that WoW lost migrated to TESO. I have a lot of WoW players in my guild that don't want to ever come back to that cr*p. Don't mention WoW neither as a good example please!

Nordic__Knights

idk wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Xebov wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

You get vMA Flawless Conqueror with your OP Magblade (so easy, right?) or with your easy mode one button Magsorc heavy attack build but, however, you stink using your Stamden, and you want your Stamden to have the achievement too, even when you can't get vMA no death with him/her?
 

So who cares about that? Flawless Conquerer is always brought up during these discussions and its a completely overrated title. The majority of players have no idea what it is and also dont realy care. Its rarely that i ever read titles from players to begin with because there is no reason to do so. Also additionally your argument could even be used against you. If someone did the Achievment years ago when it was alot harder they could complain that you get it nowadays with alot less efford. So not realy an argument here.

I used vMA just as an example, so call it vMA, Fongal Grotto 1 normal or whatever you like; if your charater didn't complete it then it doesn't deserve the title. A Magblade that has Godslayer is a Magblade that has Godslayer, a Stamblade that didn't put a foot in Fungal Grotto is a Stamblade that didn't put a foot in Fungal Grotto. Period.

Easy mode build characters SHOULD NOT give the titles or achievements to other characters that haven't or can't complete the content. You want it, do it, complete it. Period.

PS: And if vMA is easy or it was easier before or now, that's not the discussion in this thread.

And that magblade will have the title Godslayer but none of their alts who have not obtained it will not have the title. This is very much how SWTOR did it and it worked well. In SWTOR only characters that completed the raid and objectives in Nightmare mode have the titles but the account shows the achievement. It works great.

The most important part is I do not see any reasoning provided here as to how account-wide achievements harm anyone. Without that there is no real justification to not have them.

Edit:
What is funny is the same people that do not want account-wide achievements would probably be upset if the gear was no longer account-wide. The same argument can be made. Easy mode build characters SHOULD NOT give gear or weapons to other characters that haven't or can't complete the content. You want it, do it, complete it, Period.

It is interesting how that works.

they are most likely the same ones that in 2015 wanted shared VR ranks to that lead us into the CP system that made CP shared between all toons of their account but no-way is shared achievement points ok lol

I do not recall anyone asking for shared VR ranks. I do recall the original design of CP, as it was released, had no artificial cap. We could reach the full 3600 points and Zos even expected it would take the average player less than two years.

So, basically, it would not make sense to have CP be character bound. Even with the artificial cap Zos added it would still be dumb to require each character to grind 810 CP.

and when cp was un-caped everyone cried then too lol ol

Everyone did not cry when Zos added the artificial cap on CP. When we tested this on the PTS we told Zos it was a poor design because the full 3600 points were like god mode. It would have been bad for the game and dumb at that to allow players to use all 3600 points without buffing the content significantly which would have made the grind to 3600 a waste of time.

Also, an account-wide achievement list does not make content easier. Titles still remain with the character that earned the title with what most of us have been suggesting.

What is amazing is it does not harm anyone.

didnt say they cried about the cap said they cried when it was UN-CAPPED because players that just started felt it unfair that release day players like myself was already setting on over 900cp or more then and they just got to cp 160

but again whys 810cp per toon to much to ask for over 45k achievement points ?

idk

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Xebov wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

You get vMA Flawless Conqueror with your OP Magblade (so easy, right?) or with your easy mode one button Magsorc heavy attack build but, however, you stink using your Stamden, and you want your Stamden to have the achievement too, even when you can't get vMA no death with him/her?
 

So who cares about that? Flawless Conquerer is always brought up during these discussions and its a completely overrated title. The majority of players have no idea what it is and also dont realy care. Its rarely that i ever read titles from players to begin with because there is no reason to do so. Also additionally your argument could even be used against you. If someone did the Achievment years ago when it was alot harder they could complain that you get it nowadays with alot less efford. So not realy an argument here.

I used vMA just as an example, so call it vMA, Fongal Grotto 1 normal or whatever you like; if your charater didn't complete it then it doesn't deserve the title. A Magblade that has Godslayer is a Magblade that has Godslayer, a Stamblade that didn't put a foot in Fungal Grotto is a Stamblade that didn't put a foot in Fungal Grotto. Period.

Easy mode build characters SHOULD NOT give the titles or achievements to other characters that haven't or can't complete the content. You want it, do it, complete it. Period.

PS: And if vMA is easy or it was easier before or now, that's not the discussion in this thread.

And that magblade will have the title Godslayer but none of their alts who have not obtained it will not have the title. This is very much how SWTOR did it and it worked well. In SWTOR only characters that completed the raid and objectives in Nightmare mode have the titles but the account shows the achievement. It works great.

The most important part is I do not see any reasoning provided here as to how account-wide achievements harm anyone. Without that there is no real justification to not have them.

Edit:
What is funny is the same people that do not want account-wide achievements would probably be upset if the gear was no longer account-wide. The same argument can be made. Easy mode build characters SHOULD NOT give gear or weapons to other characters that haven't or can't complete the content. You want it, do it, complete it, Period.

It is interesting how that works.

they are most likely the same ones that in 2015 wanted shared VR ranks to that lead us into the CP system that made CP shared between all toons of their account but no-way is shared achievement points ok lol

I do not recall anyone asking for shared VR ranks. I do recall the original design of CP, as it was released, had no artificial cap. We could reach the full 3600 points and Zos even expected it would take the average player less than two years.

So, basically, it would not make sense to have CP be character bound. Even with the artificial cap Zos added it would still be dumb to require each character to grind 810 CP.

and when cp was un-caped everyone cried then too lol ol

Everyone did not cry when Zos added the artificial cap on CP. When we tested this on the PTS we told Zos it was a poor design because the full 3600 points were like god mode. It would have been bad for the game and dumb at that to allow players to use all 3600 points without buffing the content significantly which would have made the grind to 3600 a waste of time.

Also, an account-wide achievement list does not make content easier. Titles still remain with the character that earned the title with what most of us have been suggesting.

What is amazing is it does not harm anyone.

didnt say they cried about the cap said they cried when it was UN-CAPPED because players that just started felt it unfair that release day players like myself was already setting on over 900cp or more then and they just got to cp 160

but again whys 810cp per toon to much to ask for over 45k achievement points ?

45k achievement points is irrelevant to CP 810. That is the answer to your question.

Still looking for some manner where an acount-wide achievement system where each character still needs to earn the respective titles harms anyone. I will keep checking back to see if someone does show such a means. Until then, have a good day.

Xebov

AlnilamE wrote: »

As I mentioned before, balance is the key here. Everything character-based and everything account-based are both extremes and would likely be unfun.

There is no balance. Whats account based and whats character based is purely defined by how the data for it is stored. For the Achievment system the Achievments and the Titles are the only things that are stored per character. Everything else is stored per account. This makes alot of sense given how much data is involved. You might also notice that all new systems added are inate account based. Outfit system, scrying leads and stickerbook are all account based.

Now with that being said, why not follow up on the idea i said someone else posted some time ago? You add an account achievment system on top. Every step you complete gets added to the account and to the current character. Most unlocks are already account based. Titles could be moved to be account based as well. With this you could make everyone happy:
Players that view their account as one entity and dont care about individual character unlocks can use the account achievment system.
Players that view their account as one entity and want account unlocks, but want to keep track on their individual characters can do so.
Players that dont want account based achievments and unlocks can view the character achievments and on top you could add a filter for them that hides all unlocks their current character didnt get yet.
3 Player groups one solution to make everyone happy. So why not take it? Noone would get hurt and everyone could play exactly like they want.

The one thing everyone has to understand is that these threads will never stop. The achievment system has an artifical border that noone can logically explain and it doesnt help that we have hypocrites around that hold up their magical border where they say global titles and achievments are bad but secretly they are happy that many systems like mounts and colors are account based and they dont have to unlock them everywhere again.