PvP Magicka Necromancer has the worst offensive toolkit of any class by far

wheem_ESO

Had a BG on live a little earlier where I ended up 1v1 against a Stamina Warden, which is obviously a fight I have basically 0 chance of winning if the skill level is equal. I managed to weather the initial storm by avoiding his Dawnbreaker burst attempt and still being forced to pop Resto Ult, yet was unable kill him because three (3) Blastbones in a row fell apart mid-leap without doing damage, thanks to his baseline movement speed and a dodge roll. This is after my damage is already severely curtailed by his auto-cleansing Netch and Shimmering Shield.

The same game I had a similar run in with a Stam Sorc, who was repeatedly saved by absurd mobility + Ball of Lightning absorbing everything I could possibly throw at him when he was low HP (including Blastbones). But eventually I couldn't keep up with proc sets and off-GCD stuns, and died after he reset the fight for the ~4th time.

I've said it before, but ZOS should be embarrassed at how bad Magicka Necromancer is. There are meaningful bugs that have been in since Elsweyr's PTS, and some really questionable design choices, yet everything that the class can kinda-sorta crutch along on gets nerfed, while far more common and powerful things get left alone.

setayco

As a non harmony advocate, i can attest that having 42k max magicka and 6-7k spell damage on Magicka Necromancer will; not have enough pressure to burst anything in PvP (due to a lack of synergy within its own class kit), a lack of outplay potential ( due to majority of the skills being delayed AoEs, dodgeable abilities, and blastbones being dodged launching at the late positioning of the character model.), a lack of raw damage through a meaningful passive or active passives on skills, and even though with the increase to healing, a measly 16% into cp, passives from living death etc and you wont survive a dot build. 12k crits on resist flesh, 10k crit heal from pet. With 29k hp. So i mean there is no other playstyle apart from gettings dots from other sources. 4 procs malacath next patch or stalemate. Graveyard hits for 8-12k crits now with major debuff nerfs. Is it fun to kill people by pressing ele drain and impulse with 3 pets? Yeah the first time you melt someone. Then you realize your healing isn’t insane. Its the pressure you put out to delay actual damage dealt to you. These dots are legit hitting for 2.3k a tick and wrath of elements is getting a damage increase and a multiplier effect like zaans but for aoe. I wouldn’t doubt possibly seeing a crazy magcro dotbot on kristofers catalogue. But its astounding how much we bring this topic up and are getting ignored for about a years time now. But i appreciate you guys providing feedback, ideas and pain points to life. Hopefully soon this gets addressed. Being the only class without a true route to go as in a pvp rotation that is reliable has been rough but i still see potential.
( or mabye its just the healing potential sometimes, when it works ofcourse!)

red_emu

The problem is, the class was released as part of a DLC, so people immidiately started screaming p2w!

ZOS had no other choice but to keep nerfing Necro until it became useless. Although somehow they left stamcro very powerful.

Urvoth

Nothing has been changed for mag blastbones in the recent patch notes...

PhoenixGrey

TBH, I don't think any mag class has an offensive toolkit and its been that way for a while. Mag sorc is a little mobile but that's all there is to it and might not be as well in the near future. I heard streak will have a stam morph soon and the mag morph is going to be more expensive

ecru

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

TBH, I don't think any mag class has an offensive toolkit and its been that way for a while. Mag sorc is a little mobile but that's all there is to it and might not be as well in the near future. I heard streak will have a stam morph soon and the mag morph is going to be more expensive

mag sorc has a great toolkit, streak is probably the most powerful ability (not just movement ability, ability) in the entire game, even better than cloak IMO. i would give anything for streak on any class, and in my opinion it's so good that the ability should either be removed, have a 10-15s cooldown, or be given to everyone.

BalticBlues

ecru wrote: »

streak is probably the most powerful ability (not just movement ability, ability) in the entire game, even better than cloak

Lol. Playing all classes, I would trade Streak for Cloak anytime.
Cloak is probably the most powerful ability (not just movement ability, ability) in the entire game.

MagNecros are in a bad spot because they have nothing like that.
MagNecros are lame and sitting ducks as Templars...
...but without the great healing and without a finisher...
...but with often non-working blast bones... MagNecro is a broken class.

Joy_Division

ecru wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

TBH, I don't think any mag class has an offensive toolkit and its been that way for a while. Mag sorc is a little mobile but that's all there is to it and might not be as well in the near future. I heard streak will have a stam morph soon and the mag morph is going to be more expensive

mag sorc has a great toolkit, streak is probably the most powerful ability (not just movement ability, ability) in the entire game, even better than cloak IMO. i would give anything for streak on any class, and in my opinion it's so good that the ability should either be removed, have a 10-15s cooldown, or be given to everyone.

So you think it's a better idea to totally screw over sorcs by putting that skill on a cooldown (while allowing nightbaldes to permacloak) or homogenize all the classes by giving them what's supposed to be their defining skill.

Sometimes I'm glad ZOS doesn't take the community seriously.

PhoenixGrey

ecru wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

TBH, I don't think any mag class has an offensive toolkit and its been that way for a while. Mag sorc is a little mobile but that's all there is to it and might not be as well in the near future. I heard streak will have a stam morph soon and the mag morph is going to be more expensive

mag sorc has a great toolkit, streak is probably the most powerful ability (not just movement ability, ability) in the entire game, even better than cloak IMO. i would give anything for streak on any class, and in my opinion it's so good that the ability should either be removed, have a 10-15s cooldown, or be given to everyone.

If its so good why is everyone playing stam ?

BohnT2

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

TBH, I don't think any mag class has an offensive toolkit and its been that way for a while. Mag sorc is a little mobile but that's all there is to it and might not be as well in the near future. I heard streak will have a stam morph soon and the mag morph is going to be more expensive

mag sorc has a great toolkit, streak is probably the most powerful ability (not just movement ability, ability) in the entire game, even better than cloak IMO. i would give anything for streak on any class, and in my opinion it's so good that the ability should either be removed, have a 10-15s cooldown, or be given to everyone.

If its so good why is everyone playing stam ?

Because Magsorc is hurt extraordinary much by the AoE tests. Otherwise magsorc is the best magicka class that exists.

GoodFella146

I contacted zos about this issue. They told me I'm supposed to make a werewolf.

LukosCreyden

I'm still waiting for a response on the Stalking Blastbones issue.
As for Magcro in PVP....

No. It's awful. Terrible. I feel sad thinking about it.

PhoenixGrey

BohnT2 wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

TBH, I don't think any mag class has an offensive toolkit and its been that way for a while. Mag sorc is a little mobile but that's all there is to it and might not be as well in the near future. I heard streak will have a stam morph soon and the mag morph is going to be more expensive

mag sorc has a great toolkit, streak is probably the most powerful ability (not just movement ability, ability) in the entire game, even better than cloak IMO. i would give anything for streak on any class, and in my opinion it's so good that the ability should either be removed, have a 10-15s cooldown, or be given to everyone.

If its so good why is everyone playing stam ?

Because Magsorc is hurt extraordinary much by the AoE tests. Otherwise magsorc is the best magicka class that exists.

Problem is the best magicka class still is a million miles behind the worst stamina spec. Will be worse next patch as the major/ minor buff system will benefit stam damage especially stamina nightblade. Magicka classes are getting phased out of the game.

But of course, the forums or discords will always claim mag sorc to be top tier without any top tier gameplay !. Fact is all decent solo / small scalers are playing either stamblade / stamden or stamcro.

Atherakhia

I agree with the above poster. Part of the problem is the Necromancer toolkit is awful offensively but a larger problem is how awful Destruction staff is. In general, stamina is simply more competetive in this game and this is in large part to how powerful two-handed is and how garbage destruction staff is. This is perfectly represented with the Necromancer class. Stamina and Magicka Necromancers use nearly the exact same Necromancer skills but one of them is thought to be the most overpowered spec in this game and the other is undeniably the absolute worst Magicka by a country mile.

Look at the more powerful Mag classes... what do they have in common? A kit that fills in the gaps between Destruction Staff and Two-Hander: high burst, an execute, and a burst heal. They also have skills that offset the general disadvantage Mag has with sustain compared to Stam.

So while there is clearly room for improvement with the Necromancer class, it's not as straight forward as it seems because of how many skills overlap between Mag and Stam. But the lowest of low hanging fruit at this point is EASILY going to be Stalking BlastBones as the morph literally does nothing and has done nothing for 8 months now. But they could easily fit an execute into the kit that would likely have no real impact on stam because they'd likely still use two-handed (as we see with nightblades). They could easily make the tether skills be between the target and the corpse as opposed to between the Necro and the corpse (this would make them at least useable but still not likely useful in PvP). But some of the other things like changing mender to not provide 10% damage mitigation, or adjusting the healing on mortal coil, or the nerf to major protection; these things will have a much larger impact on Mag than Stam Necros.

ZOS needs to stop focusing on Crown Shop crap and focus more on class improvements and class balance. No better place to start than Destruction Staff and Necromancers.

BohnT2

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

TBH, I don't think any mag class has an offensive toolkit and its been that way for a while. Mag sorc is a little mobile but that's all there is to it and might not be as well in the near future. I heard streak will have a stam morph soon and the mag morph is going to be more expensive

mag sorc has a great toolkit, streak is probably the most powerful ability (not just movement ability, ability) in the entire game, even better than cloak IMO. i would give anything for streak on any class, and in my opinion it's so good that the ability should either be removed, have a 10-15s cooldown, or be given to everyone.

If its so good why is everyone playing stam ?

Because Magsorc is hurt extraordinary much by the AoE tests. Otherwise magsorc is the best magicka class that exists.

Problem is the best magicka class still is a million miles behind the worst stamina spec. Will be worse next patch as the major/ minor buff system will benefit stam damage especially stamina nightblade. Magicka classes are getting phased out of the game.

But of course, the forums or discords will always claim mag sorc to be top tier without any top tier gameplay !. Fact is all decent solo / small scalers are playing either stamblade / stamden or stamcro.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/547968/pvp-tierlist-for-stonethorn/p1

You saying, magsorc and magicka in general doesn't compete with stam, just doesn't replicate what many top tier players see.
In the post above people have long discussed about where to place specs and classes and it wasn't limited to people playing one class but people playing all of them including top tier sorcs like Malcolm or Ulopi.

Saying stam in general is better than mag is simply wrong just like saying mag offensive toolkits are lackluster doesn't tell the truth

PhoenixGrey

BohnT2 wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

TBH, I don't think any mag class has an offensive toolkit and its been that way for a while. Mag sorc is a little mobile but that's all there is to it and might not be as well in the near future. I heard streak will have a stam morph soon and the mag morph is going to be more expensive

mag sorc has a great toolkit, streak is probably the most powerful ability (not just movement ability, ability) in the entire game, even better than cloak IMO. i would give anything for streak on any class, and in my opinion it's so good that the ability should either be removed, have a 10-15s cooldown, or be given to everyone.

If its so good why is everyone playing stam ?

Because Magsorc is hurt extraordinary much by the AoE tests. Otherwise magsorc is the best magicka class that exists.

Problem is the best magicka class still is a million miles behind the worst stamina spec. Will be worse next patch as the major/ minor buff system will benefit stam damage especially stamina nightblade. Magicka classes are getting phased out of the game.

But of course, the forums or discords will always claim mag sorc to be top tier without any top tier gameplay !. Fact is all decent solo / small scalers are playing either stamblade / stamden or stamcro.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/547968/pvp-tierlist-for-stonethorn/p1

You saying, magsorc and magicka in general doesn't compete with stam, just doesn't replicate what many top tier players see.
In the post above people have long discussed about where to place specs and classes and it wasn't limited to people playing one class but people playing all of them including top tier sorcs like Malcolm or Ulopi.

Saying stam in general is better than mag is simply wrong just like saying mag offensive toolkits are lackluster doesn't tell the truth

I agree somewhat with the tier list except I can't see how stamblade and mag sorc are in the same solo PVP bracket. A stamblade has a better chance against a well built stamden or a stamcro owing to damage potential but mag sorc does not so there is zero logic to it.

There is also no point to the tier list beyond A - tier. I could place stamden, stamcro and stamblade in the same bracket and rest can go into the dumpster bracket as there is a significant power gap separating the rest.

ecru

BalticBlues wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

streak is probably the most powerful ability (not just movement ability, ability) in the entire game, even better than cloak

Lol. Playing all classes, I would trade Streak for Cloak anytime.
Cloak is probably the most powerful ability (not just movement ability, ability) in the entire game.

MagNecros are in a bad spot because they have nothing like that.
MagNecros are lame and sitting ducks as Templars...
...but without the great healing and without a finisher...
...but with often non-working blast bones... MagNecro is a broken class.

cloak doesn't have an unblockable stun

Joy_Division wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

TBH, I don't think any mag class has an offensive toolkit and its been that way for a while. Mag sorc is a little mobile but that's all there is to it and might not be as well in the near future. I heard streak will have a stam morph soon and the mag morph is going to be more expensive

mag sorc has a great toolkit, streak is probably the most powerful ability (not just movement ability, ability) in the entire game, even better than cloak IMO. i would give anything for streak on any class, and in my opinion it's so good that the ability should either be removed, have a 10-15s cooldown, or be given to everyone.

So you think it's a better idea to totally screw over sorcs by putting that skill on a cooldown (while allowing nightbaldes to permacloak) or homogenize all the classes by giving them what's supposed to be their defining skill.

Sometimes I'm glad ZOS doesn't take the community seriously.

I don't know what this means since streak being removed would just put sorc on equal terms as most other classes, not totally screw them over. Anyone who has played any other game should understand what makes streak a major outlier compared to other abilities, and tbh it's disappointing that I have to explain why.

In every other game, movement/mobility/range incurs a penalty, or lack of movement incurs a reward. If you're extremely mobile, you sacrifice damage, mitigation, utility, or a combination of these three for that mobility. If you're not mobile, you tend to gain mitigation or damage (in melee), since you can't close or create a gap very easily.

Since no one here has played any other MMO, the best example of this I could give in a game that most people have played is to compare tracer to rein in overwatch. The trade-offs here are obvious--rein gains melee damage and mitigation for a lack of mobility (aside from a cooldown), and tracer is very squishy as a trade-off for her mobility.

Sorc makes none of these sacrifices but somehow manages to retain an ability that allows them more mobility than any other class with zero penalties incurred for that mobility. This is what makes streak such a huge outlier. Hope that was easy for everyone to understand.

YandereGirlfriend

Really not interested in trying to get Sorcerer nerfed.

Much more interested in trying to get magRomancer buffed.

But what @ecru said is definitely one of the reasons why the calls to nerf the Mender are misguided and indeed ruinous for magRomancers. We are the slowest class in the game and that ought to afford a certain amount of enhanced mitigation. Take away that mitigation and you are left with a sitting duck easily preyed upon by literally any other class.

BohnT2

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Really not interested in trying to get Sorcerer nerfed.

Much more interested in trying to get magRomancer buffed.

But what @ecru said is definitely one of the reasons why the calls to nerf the Mender are misguided and indeed ruinous for magRomancers. We are the slowest class in the game and that ought to afford a certain amount of enhanced mitigation. Take away that mitigation and you are left with a sitting duck easily preyed upon by literally any other class.

Running spirit guardian on magnecro is asking to have barspace issues or lacking heals.
Only stamina necro can make good use of guardian as they have reliable heals in vigor and mortal coil (which sucks on magnecro as it heavily scales with weapon/spell damage)

Mender is the way to go on mag, generates a corpse much faster for deaden pain and the heal is much better than the mitigation.

Guardian could be deleted and magnecro wouldn't even feel a difference, stamnecro would take a well deserved hit tho.

Magnecro needs a full rework of all three skill lines with pvp in mind there's so many wasted morphs and abilities that just make necro more tanky or give them means of healing that aren't needed at all.

BohnT2

Skulls: riccochet skulls are useless in PvP, they have no secondary effect after being hit by a guard's eclipse and have a slow traveltime with a useless secondary effect if it works.
Venom skulls don't see any useage at all because no one uses a ranged skill with minimum traveltime on stam that also flat out loses to dizzying in every meaningful department.

Blastbones: stalking blastbones don't have a secondary effect when they work properly or they lose 50% total damage when they always max out their damage boost ---> trash

Boneyard: standard ground AoE, unnerving graveyard could totally be changed to a heal skill that replaces both morphs of life amid death while shifting major breach to other abilities
Avid boneyard is ment to be a pvp ability but having to use a useless skill to have a chance of bursting someone who's in meele range when the rest of the toolkit wants you to stay at range and that only works every 20 seconds ---> fails in practice

Skeletal mage: it's a dot that does nothing but deal damage but doesn't go through dodge, doesn't pressure one enemy and doesn't stay on the enemy when you can't hit them due to range or LoS, this ability lacks everything a dot is used for in pvp it also resets itself over and over again when running around
Skeletal arcanist is probably the most laughable morph in the entire game a 4m aoe on a weak dot that means it will hit many people for less because they have major evasion
Skeletal archer will never be used in pvp for the same reasons

Shocking siphon: low damage with the hardest possible way to use an ability that gives you absolutely nothing it's high risk and utter trash reward even when an enemy decides to take a nap in the tether, both morphs are ridiculously bad and a waste of barspace.

Those are 4/5 offensive skills that magnecro has access to that serve no purpose at all in pvp.
But the list goes on.

Scythe: only ever used by troll tanks and even then it's not a really good ability.
Just reworking this to be a ranged spammable equal to CT third boss with faster traveltime on the scythe would instantly make magnecro a better spec in pvp.

Bone Armor: the only ability that can be put on your bar without leaving a bitter taste in your mouth.

Bitter harvest: the ability is good but it doesn't really help with damage and the only reason the heal is acceptable is because other means of healing are unreliable on magnecro
Deaden pain has been overpowered as hell since it had been introduced due to major protection and could be changed completely after the major protection changes with no one missing the old ability (moar damage abilities)
Necrotic potency will prove itself as a good ability to increase the uptime on ults which are the only way for magnecro to ever get a kill.

Bone totem: Delayed CC with no damage and no debuff, not much more needed to see why this ability is *** outside of zerging.
Agony totem: no meaningful morph effect if you're playing solo, plays exactly the same as the base ability
Remote totem: now the stun is ranged but still delayed, it still doesn't connect in pvp when you want it to and requires people to walk into it. This morph serves absolutely no purpose and would be much better off as a single target ranged stun.

Grave grasp: talking about clunky, unreliable stuns. Not only does the enemy has to be hit by the circle furthest away, no the ability also is heavily delayed in lag which can take up to 4 seconds until the last circle spawns, then it applies a debuff for 5 seconds on a ability that you only want to use every 7 seconds due to CC immunity while not dealing any damage.
Ghostly embrace: longer CC duration isn't a morph effect, no one in pvp sits in a Cc unless he's out of stam but magnecro doesn't benefit from having someone stuck in a Cc because it doesn't have any damage to throw on the sitting duck.
Empowering grasp: your mender will often be behind you while the enemy is infront of you, you don't have to know any more about this morph, it's asking you to waste a gcd on buffing your pets one of which you'll never use anyway and the other doesn't really need it.
Change the whole ability into a damage ability equal to the talons on last boss of unhallowed grave.

Render flesh: for lack of better/other burst heals the skill is used even though having your healing reduced on your burst heal is just a huge annoyance because you often have to use it more than once, although this becomes less of an issue next patch.

Expunge: purge costing HP that doesn't do anything else, even the morphs don't give you anything special to write home about.
Resources are nice but 2 negative effects purged don't cut it in a proc meta where i have up to 30 different instances of proc sets alone ticking on me not mentioning poisons, siphoner cp and other debuffs. Even the 4 negative effect purge is just this, and doesn't bring anything other to the table.

In general I'm completely against the idea of having purges on any class other than templar but that's a relic from a time when classes were allowed to be much more powerful in certain departments.

Life amid death: there is no need for two morphs of this ability, as I mentioned when talking about graveyard, this whole ability could be cut and be turned into a morph of graveyard which gives necromancer one more offensive ability.

Spirit mender: heal over time with the penalties pets come with meaning, doesn't work during lag, doesn't work when you walk too fast because it teleports into you and goes on cooldown. Those goes so far that i can go through multiple lenders that don't heal a single time throughout their duration due to the issues mentioned above.
Intensive mender has the same issues but in its core it's one of the best HoT this game has ever seen, 7k heals every 2 seconds are nothing to sneeze at although trading some of its power to make it reliable would be a trade-off many would accept.

Spirit guardian: loses in terms of survivability unless you're playing stamnecro or certain niche builds, nerfing or completely changing this ability would help immensely in nerfing stamina necro.

Restoring tether: another tether ability that could have easily be turned into a morph giving people the choice wether they want an offensive ability of a healing ability without wasting another class ability slot. Unless you're heavy investing into weapon/spelldamage (read this as unless you're a stamnecro) this ability becomes a sustain skill with pathetic heals attached to it (500-600hps)


To sum everything up, necromancer has 5 complete abilities that could and should be changed completely along with 1 ability that needs a rework to fulfill its role (skeleton mage) and 1-2 morphs on all abilities except for bone armor and render flesh that are a waste of class skill slots.

This is way too much and is the pinnacle of why magicka necromancer is the worst offensive spec in the entire game by far

PhoenixGrey

ecru wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

streak is probably the most powerful ability (not just movement ability, ability) in the entire game, even better than cloak

Lol. Playing all classes, I would trade Streak for Cloak anytime.
Cloak is probably the most powerful ability (not just movement ability, ability) in the entire game.

MagNecros are in a bad spot because they have nothing like that.
MagNecros are lame and sitting ducks as Templars...
...but without the great healing and without a finisher...
...but with often non-working blast bones... MagNecro is a broken class.

cloak doesn't have an unblockable stun

Joy_Division wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

TBH, I don't think any mag class has an offensive toolkit and its been that way for a while. Mag sorc is a little mobile but that's all there is to it and might not be as well in the near future. I heard streak will have a stam morph soon and the mag morph is going to be more expensive

mag sorc has a great toolkit, streak is probably the most powerful ability (not just movement ability, ability) in the entire game, even better than cloak IMO. i would give anything for streak on any class, and in my opinion it's so good that the ability should either be removed, have a 10-15s cooldown, or be given to everyone.

So you think it's a better idea to totally screw over sorcs by putting that skill on a cooldown (while allowing nightbaldes to permacloak) or homogenize all the classes by giving them what's supposed to be their defining skill.

Sometimes I'm glad ZOS doesn't take the community seriously.

I don't know what this means since streak being removed would just put sorc on equal terms as most other classes, not totally screw them over. Anyone who has played any other game should understand what makes streak a major outlier compared to other abilities, and tbh it's disappointing that I have to explain why.

In every other game, movement/mobility/range incurs a penalty, or lack of movement incurs a reward. If you're extremely mobile, you sacrifice damage, mitigation, utility, or a combination of these three for that mobility. If you're not mobile, you tend to gain mitigation or damage (in melee), since you can't close or create a gap very easily.

Since no one here has played any other MMO, the best example of this I could give in a game that most people have played is to compare tracer to rein in overwatch. The trade-offs here are obvious--rein gains melee damage and mitigation for a lack of mobility (aside from a cooldown), and tracer is very squishy as a trade-off for her mobility.

Sorc makes none of these sacrifices but somehow manages to retain an ability that allows them more mobility than any other class with zero penalties incurred for that mobility. This is what makes streak such a huge outlier. Hope that was easy for everyone to understand.

Your suggestions are average at best like the other mmo's [snip]

Its the reason why there are only 3 playable pvp specs in this game right now.

[Edited for Baiting]

wheem_ESO

BohnT2 wrote: »

Mender is the way to go on mag, generates a corpse much faster for deaden pain and the heal is much better than the mitigation.

Guardian could be deleted and magnecro wouldn't even feel a difference, stamnecro would take a well deserved hit tho.

As you note in your second post, the Spirit pet is oftentimes pretty buggy. It might not be as much of an issue in Cyrodiil - which I really only ever enter in order to check the gold vendor - but it's a frequent issue in BGs. I initially ran the Intensive Mender, and was hoping that ZOS would eventually get around to fixing it. But my tolerance for having repeated casts do nothing more than waste GCDs and resources reached its limit, and I swapped it out for the Guardian. I've reported the bug repeatedly, both in-game and on the forums, and to my knowledge it has never even been acknowledged.

BohnT2 wrote: »

Blastbones: stalking blastbones don't have a secondary effect when they work properly or they lose 50% total damage when they always max out their damage boost ---> trash

It's also worth pointing out that Blastbones will oftentimes fall apart mid-leap and do 0 damage when up against fast moving and/or dodge spamming targets. While the Magicka morph certainly needs a better secondary effect, this failure-to-function problem also needs a fix, especially since you can accidentally trigger the problem and counter yourself if using the only worthwhile offensive stun available to the class - Flame Clench.

BohnT2 wrote: »

Avid boneyard is ment to be a pvp ability but having to use a useless skill to have a chance of bursting someone who's in meele range when the rest of the toolkit wants you to stay at range and that only works every 20 seconds ---> fails in practice

I honestly think that Avid Boneyard's self-synergy mechanic needs some kind of rework. As I've argued in the past, with pre-nerf Harmony the damage potential was too high. Yes, it was oftentimes rather janky and unreliable (and still is, though not as bad as it was initially), but the damage was certainly too high. After the Harmony nerf, though, it just doesn't seem worth it to me.

Going by my own damage numbers with 3x Gold Harmony Jewelry, along with the few times I've been hit with the self-synergy by other players (rare as Magicka Necromancer is in BGs...), I think the damage is too low to justify the opportunity costs involved. But if ZOS starts increasing the base damage, and/or un-nerfs the Harmony trait, we may just end up returning to the situation where it's possible to essentially 1-shot anyone who isn't running a tank + procs build. Not only does that make for a bad gameplay experience, it also provides "arguments" for not fixing/buffing Magicka Necromancer in other ways. There were numerous forum posts along those lines before, and it was pretty frustrating when I simply didn't want to play with the Harmony synercheese.

I sort of doubt that ZOS wants to completely abandon the idea of Necromancers having the "unique" self-synergy option, but I think it needs to be something other than a simple burst of damage in a small AOE.

BohnT2 wrote: »

Bone totem: Delayed CC with no damage and no debuff, not much more needed to see why this ability is *** outside of zerging.
Agony totem: no meaningful morph effect if you're playing solo, plays exactly the same as the base ability
Remote totem: now the stun is ranged but still delayed, it still doesn't connect in pvp when you want it to and requires people to walk into it. This morph serves absolutely no purpose and would be much better off as a single target ranged stun.

The totem can actually be pretty useful in certain situations, but it really shouldn't be the only class-based CC available (unless there were also some good non-class options...they really dropped the ball with the Vampire "CC").

BohnT2 wrote: »

Render flesh: for lack of better/other burst heals the skill is used even though having your healing reduced on your burst heal is just a huge annoyance because you often have to use it more than once, although this becomes less of an issue next patch.

Prior to the battlespirit-healing nerf, I think Resistant Flesh was a pretty decent heal, albeit with an obvious drawback for self-healing. But it's currently far too weak on the live servers (I couldn't get any PvP on the PTS to form an opinion on the next patch).

BohnT2 wrote: »

Life amid death: there is no need for two morphs of this ability, as I mentioned when talking about graveyard, this whole ability could be cut and be turned into a morph of graveyard which gives necromancer one more offensive ability.

I really liked Renewing Undeath, prior to the aforementioned battlespirit-healing nerf. It didn't heal as much as Resistant Flesh did, but was a really nice group heal + cleanse if your BG team was halfway working together. The spell was actually pretty underrated at the time, IMO, but the amount of healing that it does now is just too pathetic. I've played around with it off and on recently, and I just don't think it's all that worthwhile anymore. It's nice for being able to cleanse + heal your team after a fight is over, since it's likely that there are still some lingering proc-DOTs around, but who wants to use up a bar slot for that? Not to mention the fact that some teammates won't be standing close enough to a corpse to even get the cleanse.

Urvoth

Nothing changed for mag necro this patch and this entire post is still relevant feelsbadman

Thuragan

Urvoth wrote: »

Nothing changed for mag necro this patch and this entire post is still relevant feelsbadman

I understand your pain but not every build will shine in all aspects of the game. Magcros are currently incredibly strong if not the strongest in PvE. The game does kinda force you to make alternate characters if you wish to shine in PvP your best bet is to make something else.

ESO_Nightingale

Based on the title of the post alone i definitely don't disagree. Both necromancer and warden need some overhauls, cutting down some existing problematic stuff and adding to the gameplay of the class.

wheem_ESO

Yea...as I mentioned in another thread, the first thing I did when the patch notes were posted was search for the word "Necromancer". Needless to say, I was really disappointed.

ESO_Nightingale

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Yea...as I mentioned in another thread, the first thing I did when the patch notes were posted was search for the word "Necromancer". Needless to say, I was really disappointed.

Same but with warden.

wheem_ESO

Thuragan wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Nothing changed for mag necro this patch and this entire post is still relevant feelsbadman

I understand your pain but not every build will shine in all aspects of the game. Magcros are currently incredibly strong if not the strongest in PvE. The game does kinda force you to make alternate characters if you wish to shine in PvP your best bet is to make something else.

I think it's a really terrible argument to say that an entire class should be written off for PvP just because some other player on that same class hurt their guildmates' egos by doing a few % more dps on some PvE boss or target dummy parse.

Urvoth

Thuragan wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Nothing changed for mag necro this patch and this entire post is still relevant feelsbadman

I understand your pain but not every build will shine in all aspects of the game. Magcros are currently incredibly strong if not the strongest in PvE. The game does kinda force you to make alternate characters if you wish to shine in PvP your best bet is to make something else.

It would definitely need a bit of a rework instead of a straight buff so that it wouldn’t be broken in PvE, but just because something is strong in PvE/PvP doesn’t mean it can’t be viable in other content too. Recent patches have definitely evened out classes somewhat in terms of PvE damage as well.

YandereGirlfriend

Urvoth wrote: »

Thuragan wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Nothing changed for mag necro this patch and this entire post is still relevant feelsbadman

I understand your pain but not every build will shine in all aspects of the game. Magcros are currently incredibly strong if not the strongest in PvE. The game does kinda force you to make alternate characters if you wish to shine in PvP your best bet is to make something else.

It would definitely need a bit of a rework instead of a straight buff so that it wouldn’t be broken in PvE, but just because something is strong in PvE/PvP doesn’t mean it can’t be viable in other content too. Recent patches have definitely evened out classes somewhat in terms of PvE damage as well.

Indeed, stamDens used to be a meme in PvE because they were "too good in PvP" but that situation changed last patch.

No reason that magRomancers can't do the same but in reverse.