Do you think classes need rebalanced?

Jodynn

After the new SBE changes, and after years of old passives that fit an old vision.

Recapitated

Yes

ZOS thinks it has to be done, so it's probably coming. Only question is why it's not being done in the same patch.

colossalvoids

Yes

It's inevitable, first of all not all classes seen their rework yet and probably others will see one more also as they remaking their standards again.
Secondly after major/minor ones were rethought some classes/roles(depending on said classes)/races (sustain ones are not needed at all as example) appeared in much more unfare state than before and need some work asap and not next update (or even further).

ESO_Nightingale

Yes

Yeah it seems pretty likely after the major and minor buff standardisation.

Starlight_Knight

Yes

The issue is there is no identity, every class runs the same thing, gear and skills, its just an homogenised mess.

Rhaegar75

Yes

Yes:

• StamDens are too often close to God Mode;

• MagSorcs are still too powerful as they are able to defend/deal damage/be mobile in the same build

• no builds should be unbillable and some classes can obtain that - Necros and Wardens

MincVinyl

No

Yes and no. To an extent these major/minor changes have reigned in necro and warden which were made to fit the current meta. Most of the base classes were left in the dust having the shittier major/minor buffs compared to necro that was blessed by the divine to have easy access to major/minor defile vuln prot and not to mention other % modifiers that stack like spirit, dot damage during a huge dot/proc patch.

to compare looking at stamsorc, we only had access to i think 5 passives, where stamcro had access to every passive and many more active morphs.

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Why I say no here is because you DON'T want zos to rework the classes yet. There are other layers of the game that should be reworked before classes or else they would have to rework classes twice.

• For instance cp needs to be reworked first.
• Movement and access to cc and proper counterplay needs to be reworked (no more having to press a 2s snare immunity off cooldown to be able to walk because everyother ability in the game has a snare tied to it......even dizzy now)
• Animations with projectile and gap closers need to be reworked. Ever notice how javelin always stuns you way before it hits......makes it hard to block something that already hits you half way through the animation. Tbh I think many gap closers could be changed to work like streak, where they would be more of a skill shot. Imagine the utility and creative uses people think of. Also no more bugged dragon leap going through immunity or missing because part of the ability still thinks it is a single target dodgeable calculation.
• Sustain needs to be reworked......There was a time when every build wasnt just pick the sets with the most procced damage. Or pick sets that are just the meta proc "do X damage for light attacking".
• food/drink needs to be reworked.....no reason drinks should be useless compared to food because there exists a set in the game that gives mediocre bonuses if you use a drink. Someone at zos decided this for little or no reason

Zatox

Yes

My main stamDK for PVE want rebalance

Atherakhia

Yes

Of course it needs to be done. Overall class balance/design is horrible right now in both PvE and PvP. There's a reason progression groups are all mag and focus on only a few classes. There's a reason stamina runs amok in PvP. It's because ZOS has let class balance suffer. In theory it's because they're trying to modernize some of the other core mechanics in the game like stat scaling, CP, buffs/debuffs, etc. But they're rolling out these reforms at a snail's pace and they've had no real substantive class improvements since I've started playing this game almost a year ago. Clearly things have gotten worse as time has gone on, not better. There are so many things that most players would look at and say "well that's such an easy change next patch is going to be the patch they change it" and the next patch comes and goes, and the patch after that, and the next one still and the problems remain with not a comment from ZOS.

JohnOfMarkarth

Yes

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

Yes:

• StamDens are too often close to God Mode;

• MagSorcs are still too powerful as they are able to defend/deal damage/be mobile in the same build

• no builds should be unbillable and some classes can obtain that - Necros and Wardens

Big throbbing No.
A NO so vast that Sahara couldn't contain 1% of it.
A "NO" so big that Pistol Star is a dwarf star compared to it.

Lets nerf something that has so little use in majority of end game content that its a joke... out of *pinkbunnies existence. These cyrodiil crocodile tears of pvp will just put an uninstall button as main button on the launcher, while to press play you gotta go to options, press play under repair. And the launcher asks you twice if you are even sure you want to proceed!


Classes need rework, but boy is Warden in need of positive reinforcements not nerfs... Classes need their identity back. Else its just ... Mass Effect 3 Endings according to fans all over again. Its all the same just pick your color.

Skjaldbjorn

Yes

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

Yes:

• StamDens are too often close to God Mode;

• MagSorcs are still too powerful as they are able to defend/deal damage/be mobile in the same build

• no builds should be unbillable and some classes can obtain that - Necros and Wardens

This kind of post is precisely why Warden keeps seeing bad, poorly thought out, short-sighted changes that continue to dumpster them in PVE. We get it. You PVPers all hate Wardens. I dig it. Wipe your eyes and chill out for 10 seconds so we can stop sucking in PVE. Please. We're begging.

idk

I think yes would be an overwhelming yes regardless of how balanced, or unbalanced, the classes are. Discussion on the actual issues would be much more effective as the poll really tells Zos nothing.

Jodynn

Yes

idk wrote: »

I think yes would be an overwhelming yes regardless of how balanced, or unbalanced, the classes are. Discussion on the actual issues would be much more effective as the poll really tells Zos nothing.

I've given plenty of feedback on the feedback thread, this is to see if people are unhappy as I am feeling like they're playing something half baked.

Skjaldbjorn

Yes

As to the over-arching question, yes. Immediately. I understand they've been focused on "standardizing" and resolving server/performance issues, but classes are a mess. Legitimately, an abject disaster from a balance and fundamental game design perspective. There are so, so many issues. First and foremost, they need to completely rethink their "power budget" approach and start attributing elements to specific fields of play. For example, Lotus giving Major Savagery to Warden in Open World or PVP should be a reasonably decent "power budget" amount. In group and trial content, it should be nearly zero.

I think too often Zenimax gets lost in forum tears and perceiving things exclusively from a "mathhammer" perspective. "This is over-performing because math" can absolutely be true, but can also leave you without context, variables and situational, specific elements. I feel as though Zos does a lot of blanket changes, particularly as we're seeing now with the sweeping major/minor alterations. Some of these have been healthy, and as a general rule, I think the majority are fine. However, some of them, such as Major Berserk, really fail to make any sense at all to me.

Austinseph1

Yes

Classes need a full pass, there needs to be a full look into the sustain, self heals, and stam/mag skills because they have been patched together so many times that they have lost coherence. The team comes at them from different angles with each time they have been adjusted that they should be evaluated from the ground up. Each class should have access to the major buffs in some form and a good and stable source of sustain as well as options for both stamina, mag, tanking, and healing. Give them a vision and stick with it.

Luke_Flamesword

Yes

Yes, we need rebalance and more seperation between PvP and PvE. Maybe different versions of skills for both game modes - it will be much easier to balance skills values seperate for Pvp and PvE

Drdeath20

Yes

While i believe we can always do better with every class, every passive and every skill/ultimate, Templars and Dragonknights urgently need the most love.

Jodynn

Yes

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

Yes, we need rebalance and more seperation between PvP and PvE. Maybe different versions of skills for both game modes - it will be much easier to seperate skills values seperate for Pvp and PvE

Maybe so, so sick of the feud.

Shantu

No

Basically because I'm not confident that any attempt by this team would deliver us to a better place. Does anyone really know what "balance" means anymore? Seems more like a shifting target that gets redefined on a whim.

Jodynn

Yes

Shantu wrote: »

Basically because I'm not confident that any attempt by this team would deliver us to a better place. Does anyone really know what "balance" means anymore? Seems more like a shifting target that gets redefined on a whim.

Maybe so but right now it's like wearing two mismatched gloves and it just feels, and looks foolish.

honey_badger82

Yes

Not only do I think classes should be rebalanced but racial passives need it too. As a character in the game you are not the atypical of your race. I think we should have 2-3 racial passives much like the 1st one we all have that are free at certain level marks that are what define your race but give you no meaningful advantage during gameplay.
There should be 3 that the player can choose the category from in the same morph format of skills but probably with about 3 options.

These 3 passives should be along the lines of recovery, stat resources and damage bonus.
So for recovery you get: option 1- 258 recovery in highest resource, opt 2- redguard style to highest offensive stat, opt 3- red diamond style but proc same as HA constitution passive.
Resource options should be: 1- 1600 stam+ health, 2-1600 magicka+ health, 3- 1600 stam+ magicka.
damage options: 1- 258 to highest offensive stat,
2-129 to both, 3- the current Nord "rugged" passive (damage mitigation).

I think this would allow more freedom in race choice to play as you wished without losing significant optimization. Right now you are forced to play as they see fit or be much weaker. I should not have to pick a race I dont want to play in order to not be handicapped. It would also support whatever role you wished to play no matter your race decision. At the end of the day the race I want to play should be purely my decision not heavily weighted by advantages and disadvantages of the race.

Jodynn

Yes

honey_badger82 wrote: »

Not only do I think classes should be rebalanced but racial passives need it too. As a character in the game you are not the atypical of your race. I think we should have 2-3 racial passives much like the 1st one we all have that are free at certain level marks that are what define your race but give you no meaningful advantage during gameplay.
There should be 3 that the player can choose the category from in the same morph format of skills but probably with about 3 options.

These 3 passives should be along the lines of recovery, stat resources and damage bonus.
So for recovery you get: option 1- 258 recovery in highest resource, opt 2- redguard style to highest offensive stat, opt 3- red diamond style but proc same as HA constitution passive.
Resource options should be: 1- 1600 stam+ health, 2-1600 magicka+ health, 3- 1600 stam+ magicka.
damage options: 1- 258 to highest offensive stat,
2-129 to both, 3- the current Nord "rugged" passive (damage mitigation).

I think this would allow more freedom in race choice to play as you wished without losing significant optimization. Right now you are forced to play as they see fit or be much weaker. I should not have to pick a race I dont want to play in order to not be handicapped. It would also support whatever role you wished to play no matter your race decision. At the end of the day the race I want to play should be purely my decision not heavily weighted by advantages and disadvantages of the race.

Honestly, I feel like I don't have a racial choice, it's be the best or don't. Endgame PvE is like an arms race, you pick the best thing.

ManDraKE

The changes to minor/major buffs will balance classes a lot. Warden and Necro that have access to pretty much all the buffs in the game will take a hit.

Most of the unbalance come from the meta itself, it benefits some classes to much, and some broken stuff like malacath and such benefit some classes more than others. Imo if you take most of the broken/unbalanced stuff, and the inderect nerfs with the changes to minor/major, classes are not THAT unbalanced

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

Yes:

• StamDens are too often close to God Mode;

• MagSorcs are still too powerful as they are able to defend/deal damage/be mobile in the same build

• no builds should be unbillable and some classes can obtain that - Necros and Wardens

This kind of post is precisely why Warden keeps seeing bad, poorly thought out, short-sighted changes that continue to dumpster them in PVE. We get it. You PVPers all hate Wardens. I dig it. Wipe your eyes and chill out for 10 seconds so we can stop sucking in PVE. Please. We're begging.

not really. The thing with wardens in PvP is that they have incredible high healing and mitigation built in to the class, is not about damage. What people complain about wardens in PvP has nothing to do with your PvE parsing, PvP balance is far more complex than just parsing a dummy and checking what class got more damage.

Firstmep

Yes

ManDraKE wrote: »

The changes to minor/major buffs will balance classes a lot. Warden and Necro that have access to pretty much all the buffs in the game will take a hit.

Most of the unbalance come from the meta itself, it benefits some classes to much, and some broken stuff like malacath and such benefit some classes more than others. Imo if you take most of the broken/unbalanced stuff, and the inderect nerfs with the changes to minor/major, classes are not THAT unbalanced

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

Yes:

• StamDens are too often close to God Mode;

• MagSorcs are still too powerful as they are able to defend/deal damage/be mobile in the same build

• no builds should be unbillable and some classes can obtain that - Necros and Wardens

This kind of post is precisely why Warden keeps seeing bad, poorly thought out, short-sighted changes that continue to dumpster them in PVE. We get it. You PVPers all hate Wardens. I dig it. Wipe your eyes and chill out for 10 seconds so we can stop sucking in PVE. Please. We're begging.

not really. The thing with wardens in PvP is that they have incredible high healing and mitigation built in to the class, is not about damage. What people complain about wardens in PvP has nothing to do with your PvE parsing, PvP balance is far more complex than just parsing a dummy and checking what class got more damage.

Erm, wardens do have high damage, sub assault does as much dmg as most peoples dawnbreaker, and the class has multiple stacking % dmg increases built in.
If wardens had no damage you couldnt pull off 40k hp builds with like 3.5k weapon damage and still cut people in half.
And yes malacath is a big contributing factor but its not the only thing.

JohnOfMarkarth

Yes

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

honey_badger82 wrote: »

Not only do I think classes should be rebalanced but racial passives need it too. As a character in the game you are not the atypical of your race. I think we should have 2-3 racial passives much like the 1st one we all have that are free at certain level marks that are what define your race but give you no meaningful advantage during gameplay.
There should be 3 that the player can choose the category from in the same morph format of skills but probably with about 3 options.

These 3 passives should be along the lines of recovery, stat resources and damage bonus.
So for recovery you get: option 1- 258 recovery in highest resource, opt 2- redguard style to highest offensive stat, opt 3- red diamond style but proc same as HA constitution passive.
Resource options should be: 1- 1600 stam+ health, 2-1600 magicka+ health, 3- 1600 stam+ magicka.
damage options: 1- 258 to highest offensive stat,
2-129 to both, 3- the current Nord "rugged" passive (damage mitigation).

I think this would allow more freedom in race choice to play as you wished without losing significant optimization. Right now you are forced to play as they see fit or be much weaker. I should not have to pick a race I dont want to play in order to not be handicapped. It would also support whatever role you wished to play no matter your race decision. At the end of the day the race I want to play should be purely my decision not heavily weighted by advantages and disadvantages of the race.

Honestly, I feel like I don't have a racial choice, it's be the best or don't. Endgame PvE is like an arms race, you pick the best thing.

which could be made better and actual choice based if his suggestion went through


On that note. I couldnt agree with that comment.

I think we should have 2-3 racial passives much like the 1st one we all have that are free at certain level marks that are what define your race but give you no meaningful advantage during gameplay.
There should be 3 that the player can choose the category from in the same morph format of skills but probably with about 3 options.

These 3 passives should be along the lines of recovery, stat resources and damage bonus.
So for recovery you get: option 1- 258 recovery in highest resource, opt 2- redguard style to highest offensive stat, opt 3- red diamond style but proc same as HA constitution passive.
Resource options should be: 1- 1600 stam+ health, 2-1600 magicka+ health, 3- 1600 stam+ magicka.
damage options: 1- 258 to highest offensive stat,
2-129 to both, 3- the current Nord "rugged" passive (damage mitigation).

I think this would allow more freedom in race choice to play as you wished without losing significant optimization. Right now you are forced to play as they see fit or be much weaker. I should not have to pick a race I dont want to play in order to not be handicapped. It would also support whatever role you wished to play no matter your race decision. At the end of the day the race I want to play should be purely my decision not heavily weighted by advantages and disadvantages of the race.

Please make it happen ZoS

Koubo

Yes

Definitly yes, but there is lot of work. My 5+ Months of playing dosent let me see the entire work to do as i havent played all classes (yet?)
it's hard to make suggestions, but i saw many good here and there. (some are less goods tho)

aeowulf

Yes

The buff standardisation I think is a good thing, but it’s left the skills which do not have these as effect completely unbalanced.take a look at all the ‘tank’ ultimates for example. They ones that granted major protection are now significantly weaker, but the ones that scaled off a stat are not changed. 200 ultimate gets you ‘max damage of 3% of your health and group shield for one class, or 10% damage reduction and some damage for others... there are likely many skills in the same situation too.

idk

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I think yes would be an overwhelming yes regardless of how balanced, or unbalanced, the classes are. Discussion on the actual issues would be much more effective as the poll really tells Zos nothing.

I've given plenty of feedback on the feedback thread, this is to see if people are unhappy as I am feeling like they're playing something half baked.

and pretty much many are not happy no matter what the case is. Think about this for a moment. Someone asked if you would like your character to be stronger in some way and I pretty much expect the answer will be yes regardless of what class you are playing. It is pretty normal and essentially that is the question being asked here.

Recapitated

Yes

idk wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I think yes would be an overwhelming yes regardless of how balanced, or unbalanced, the classes are. Discussion on the actual issues would be much more effective as the poll really tells Zos nothing.

I've given plenty of feedback on the feedback thread, this is to see if people are unhappy as I am feeling like they're playing something half baked.

and pretty much many are not happy no matter what the case is. Think about this for a moment. Someone asked if you would like your character to be stronger in some way and I pretty much expect the answer will be yes regardless of what class you are playing. It is pretty normal and essentially that is the question being asked here.

Just because (some) people are biased doesn't mean there is no correct answer

Aznarb

ZoS is on the track, it took them time to change the team but since they are doing great so far and try many thing. I always laugh at people think it's should be done in few month.
The mess in balance of this game was so high, it's not gonna be fix so easily, especially until PvP and PvE are clearly separate.
Until this, no balance patch will work.

Standardisation is the best way to make it faster and seeing where the real problem is. Once find and solved, then they'll bring more identity carefully.

You dream so high if you think a perfect balance is gonna happen in 1 years or less in a game like this..

honey_badger82

Yes

^^^^ Your logic is infallible. The direction could of been taken well over a year ago. There are quite a few voices of reason on this forum. At this point it's a too little too late for some. I am tired of changing my builds every 3 months, tired of farming for gear and upgrade materials. My stamplar in full golded out gear is going to take several heavy blows with this new direction.