Clarification requested on part of the Code of Conduct, please?

anitajoneb17_ESO

BuildMan wrote: »

Got it. Just put a point down gesture like dark souls and I'll no longer need to Tbag. Same message with no supposed simulated sexual assault.

^^ This ^^
Replace it with any emote you like - not sexually related, and I'd be happy.

But it wouldn't work. People use T-bagging BECAUSE of its sexual nature.

Soul_Demon

SilverBride wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

And since you agree that ZOS does mean that teabagging is an actionable offense (I think it always was, even under the old TOS), why are you objecting to me asking them to make that crystal clear?

Because it already is crystal clear. It is a simulated sexual act used to humiliate another player.

It isn't at all.....you will have to exhaustively go over the conditions when a player may, or may not stealth up in game in order to make a case. Furthermore you have yet to explain in detail how doing so is a sexual act- I am still confused how one persons opinion on this issue becomes fact spoken about with such veracity without as of yet providing any backing documentation of or specificity on that exact thing. After that you will need to explain how doing pushups on killed players is not prosecutable as '***' if this is the case.

SilverBride

Soul_Demon wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

And since you agree that ZOS does mean that teabagging is an actionable offense (I think it always was, even under the old TOS), why are you objecting to me asking them to make that crystal clear?

Because it already is crystal clear. It is a simulated sexual act used to humiliate another player.

It isn't at all.....you will have to exhaustively go over the conditions when a player may, or may not stealth up in game in order to make a case. Furthermore you have yet to explain in detail how doing so is a sexual act- I am still confused how one persons opinion on this issue becomes fact spoken about with such veracity without as of yet providing any backing documentation of or specificity on that exact thing. After that you will need to explain how doing pushups on killed players is not prosecutable as '***' if this is the case.

There is no way I can say this any clearer than what I said above. It is a simulated sexual act used to humiliate another player. Both of these things are not allowed. Therefor teabagging is not allowed.

FlipFlopFrog

In this game there's a built in feature that allows you to slit an innocent (or otherwise) npc's throat from behind and listen to their dying gargles as they choke on their own blood.

There's another one as a vampire which literally lets you rip someone's throat out with your teeth and feed on their sweet sweet blood.

There's also themes of slavery, theft, alcohol and drug use.

Yet you want to ban people that crouch on you because that offends you? It seems to me that there's a very small minority of players that don't need intervention from ZoS... They just need to stop getting so offended.

Since the dawn of time people have found ways of taunting their opponents in competitive games, from footballers rubbing it in in front of the opposing teams crowd, to basketball players sticking their tongue out at eachother or even wrestlers slapping their thighs at their combatant. The point is people will always find a way to taunt and rile up their competitors. Yeah it's not very sportsmanlike, but so what?

And like someone else said, the sexual part is entirely in your imagination, if you want to imagine the other players private parts entering your orifice that's on you buddy. I'd prefer to focus on hunting them down and getting revenge.

SilverBride

FlipFlopFrog wrote: »

In this game there's a built in feature that allows you to slit an innocent (or otherwise) npc's throat from behind and listen to their dying gargles as they choke on their own blood.

There's another one as a vampire which literally lets you rip someone's throat out with your teeth and feed on their sweet sweet blood.

There's also themes of slavery, theft, alcohol and drug use.

These are all part of the game storylines. It is your character being a hero, or sometimes a theif or assassin, against non player characters. If this isn't the kind of game you want to play, don't play it. But you know full well what you are getting into when you log on.

FlipFlopFrog wrote: »

Yet you want to ban people that crouch on you because that offends you? It seems to me that there's a very small minority of players that don't need intervention from ZoS... They just need to stop getting so offended.

Teabagging is simulating a sexual act directed at the person playing the character for the sole purpose of humiliating them.

FlipFlopFrog wrote: »

Since the dawn of time people have found ways of taunting their opponents in competitive games, from footballers rubbing it in in front of the opposing teams crowd, to basketball players sticking their tongue out at eachother or even wrestlers slapping their thighs at their combatant. The point is people will always find a way to taunt and rile up their competitors. Yeah it's not very sportsmanlike, but so what?

So what? Allowing toxic behavior to become the norm is not any kind of solution. We never have to accept toxic behavior just because someone somewhere else is getting away with it. And didn't the NFL do something about this?

FlipFlopFrog wrote: »

And like someone else said, the sexual part is entirely in your imagination, if you want to imagine the other players private parts entering your orifice that's on you buddy. I'd prefer to focus on hunting them down and getting revenge.

No, it's not in anyone's mind. That is the entire purpose of teabagging. They are not simulating shaking your hand for a good match. It is a simulated sexual gesture and the person doing it knows full well it is.

Soul_Demon

SilverBride wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

And since you agree that ZOS does mean that teabagging is an actionable offense (I think it always was, even under the old TOS), why are you objecting to me asking them to make that crystal clear?

Because it already is crystal clear. It is a simulated sexual act used to humiliate another player.

It isn't at all.....you will have to exhaustively go over the conditions when a player may, or may not stealth up in game in order to make a case. Furthermore you have yet to explain in detail how doing so is a sexual act- I am still confused how one persons opinion on this issue becomes fact spoken about with such veracity without as of yet providing any backing documentation of or specificity on that exact thing. After that you will need to explain how doing pushups on killed players is not prosecutable as '***' if this is the case.

There is no way I can say this any clearer than what I said above. It is a simulated sexual act used to humiliate another player. Both of these things are not allowed. Therefor teabagging is not allowed.

And let me say this a second time....you have failed to explain in detail how a stealthing player with imaginary prescience in a fantasy world is committing a 'simulated act' in any way shape or form. You will need to get very specific as to when, where, how and how often in every possible scenario allowed in the game to show how in fact this is not only not allowed but is against the TOS as you have stated. In this imagined world no one is charged with 'murder' for hacking a fake enemy, with fake weapons to fake death. Please explain how this is anything other than your own personal belief with supporting quotes specifically laying out this by a Zenimax employee.

SilverBride

Soul_Demon wrote: »

And let me say this a second time....you have failed to explain in detail how a stealthing player with imaginary prescience in a fantasy world is committing a 'simulated act' in any way shape or form. You will need to get very specific as to when, where, how and how often in every possible scenario allowed in the game to show how in fact this is not only not allowed but is against the TOS as you have stated. In this imagined world no one is charged with 'murder' for hacking a fake enemy, with fake weapons to fake death. Please explain how this is anything other than your own personal belief with supporting quotes specifically laying out this by a Zenimax employee.

The only thing I need to explain in a thread about whether or not teabagging is against the ToS is why I believe it is. And I've done that. And isn't every reply to this thread the poster's own personal belief on the subject?

My personal belief on the matter is backed up by fact. It is a simulated sexual gesture that is performed as a means of humiliating the person playing the character. That is fact.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

lol peeps should check the form check this link in the form bk from in apr 2018 it is not allowed https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/408524/teabagging-in-the-elder-scrolls-online-isnt-a-debate-its-actually-against-the-rules go to page 2

SilverBride

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

lol peeps should check the form check this link in the form bk from in apr 2018 it is not allowed https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/408524/teabagging-in-the-elder-scrolls-online-isnt-a-debate-its-actually-against-the-rules go to page 2

Thank you!

FlipFlopFrog

SilverBride wrote: »

These are all part of the game storylines. It is your character being a hero, or sometimes a theif or assassin, against non player characters. If this isn't the kind of game you want to play, don't play it. But you know full well what you are getting into when you log on.

EXACTLY! Just like when you knowingly enter a competitive PvP zone you know some people there might flaunt their victory.

SilverBride wrote: »

Teabagging is simulating a sexual act directed at the person playing the character for the sole purpose of humiliating them.

But is that really bannable? Considering there's absolutely no lewd imagery.

SilverBride wrote: »

Allowing toxic behaviour to become the norm is not any kind of solution. We never have to accept toxic behaviour just because someone somewhere else is getting away with it. And didn't the NFL do something about this?

Banning people who make you feel a bit uncomfortable isn't any kind of solution either. The point is that people gloating and showing off have always been common place in competitive games. My advice is to either ignore it, laugh it off or be better than them.

SilverBride wrote: »

No, it's not in anyone's mind. That is the entire purpose of teabagging. They are not simulating shaking your hand for a good match. It is a simulated sexual gesture and the person doing it knows full well it is.

It's clearly in your mind as you keep saying it's some kind of sexual act? That's on you and your imagination. I see it as a victory dance.

SilverBride

FlipFlopFrog wrote: »

It's clearly in your mind as you keep saying it's some kind of sexual act? That's on you and your imagination. I see it as a victory dance.

Read alainjbrennanb16_ESO 's post.

VaranisArano

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

lol peeps should check the form check this link in the form bk from in apr 2018 it is not allowed https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/408524/teabagging-in-the-elder-scrolls-online-isnt-a-debate-its-actually-against-the-rules go to page 2

IIRC, that thread had some doubts as to the authenticity of the warning screenshot from 2015. But by all means, people should read it for themselves. And here's the original thread from 2015: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/206255/teabagging/

But to rehash an earlier point, if we're dragging out 2018 threads in order to say "its against the rules!" yet we all know teabagging is still happening...that's even more reason for ZOS to just say clear and upfront that it's against the rules now.

Because if its been against the rules since 2015, not making that clear has only perpetuated a PVP environment where its commonplace.

SilverBride

Just start reporting them.

Jeremy

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

So crouching over and over again on top of a character's corpse to simulate a sexual assault is a "personal attack" on the player, but having others gang up on his or her character with a few of their buddies and do stabbing and hacking animations to simulate a cold blooded murder isn't?

That's correct. Killing in fair fight or in stealth is OK. Teabagging is not OK.
Firstly, because it is NOT part of gameplay.
Secondly, because it is of sexual nature.

Do you have a teenage or adult son/daughter ? If not, just imagine you having one.
What would you think of him playing ESO ? Probably nothing in particular.
What would you think of him playing a p0rn game where sex, especially non-consensual, humiliating sex were the core of the gameplay ? (I've never seen such games but I heard they do exist). You'd probably think something about it - and not very highly.

Remember Game of Thrones ? Blood, extreme violence, beheadings, people stabbed in the back, left for dead and whatnot. Even explicit torture a whole season long (Theon Greyjoy). Sure, there were some controversies about the level of violence in the show. However, none of those were as debated as the two explicit non-consensual sex scenes in the show (Cersei+Jaime, and Sansa+Ramsay).
Same with GTA : lots of debate, but not as much about the ability to kill any NPC, as about the ability to have sex with any NPC - consensual or not.

There's something more, something worse to non-consensual sex than violence, as a symbol. There is something more to T-bagging than simple teasing, and that is why immature people use it for the sole sake of humiliating. And that is why noone should ever do it, under no circumstances.

Luckily, T-bagging has gone a bit out of fashion over the years in ESO and that's a good thing. Never was a real trend on PC/EU anyway, another good thing.

I'm going to try once to remember my response to you while leaving off the last two sentences that got the whole thing deleted. Then, if that doesn't work, I'm going to have to give up on trying to respond to you (I'm sorry).

First: there is nothing overtly "sexual" about teabagging on ESO. It's just a player crouching over and over again. Everything else going on is entirely in the imagination of other players. So comparing that to pornography seems... misplaced to put it gently. And trust me, your teenage or adult son/daughter has already seen much much worse. So this entire debate is stemming from quite literally a complete figment of someone's imagination.

In respect to violence vs sex in entertainment - that's something that's always been peculiar to me. You can have a man literally ripping someone's heart out on screen and rate that film PG - but if they dare show any nudity or sex it must be rated R. In other words: it's fine to show the slaughter of other human beings but don't you dare have any sex in it! The whole thing just seems ridiculous to me.

Now I'm going to approach your last point cautiously...

Actually, I'm just going to ask this question instead: are you calling players who teabag others in ESO immature people? And if so: why is it ok to criticize those players but it's not ok to criticize or even be the least bit skeptical of players who take such offense at the practice? I mean, I'm just wondering here since your post survived how do you know where these lines are drawn and when it's ok to criticize other players generally and when it isn't? Because I sincerely can't figure it out. So perhaps you can explain it to me.

[snip]

Some thoughts :

- [snip] I believe that's what happens with T-bagging for a number of players : they simply use the crouching emote as a code and don't mean any further harm or humiliation.

- That doesn't change the original meaning of T-bagging and its very explicit graphical translation. Which means that anyone not familiar with "the code" may and will take it quite literally, and therefore as extremely offensive. Also, in that regard, I believe that for PvPers, the game is just a graphic scenery where they compete with their gaming skills. PvEers are more into "immersion". Where imagination plays a huge role up to the point where you "feel" the stress of being killed by a mob, pursued by a wolf, you "feel" the gorgeous landscape, the water on your skin when you dive, etc. That's most of the fun in the game for many of us (incl. me) . When I enter a PvP area I have to consciously "adjust" my state of mind. But the violence of killing/being killed is still very present, let alone T-bagging. I have far less "distance" as to what happens on screen than an experienced PvPer. And I want to keep it that way in order to keep my Pve pleasure intact.

So, as to your statement of there is nothing overtly "sexual" about teabagging on ESO all depends on the person's experience, in life and ingame, + their individual sensitivity.

- re [snip] yes, everyone, you, me, and all the youngsters have obviously seen "much worse" already. There is, however, a huge difference between watching/acting something evidently stated as "secret, undercover, underground and deviant" and that same "something" being depicted and used as a "normal" social behaviour. Labelling means a lot. I'm all for letting everyone have their own fantasies, no matter how "unacceptable" they might be, but I also have everything against letting anyone's fantasies becoming a social standard.

- re : violence vs. sex in entertainment : two possible explanations : [snip] 3/ In order modern societies, physical violence is "far away", it's not part of everyday life, it's only in the movies, it only happens to others, even if we see it everyday in the news. Sexual abuse, on the contrary, is constantly embedded in everyday life. We (woman speaking here) live in constant fear of that. We are grown up and educated in, within, and according to that fear. And considering the numbers of victims : rightfully so. (not engaging any #metoo debate here though, just stating facts). Furthermore if we consider that we are and will be considered 100% responsible of whatever happens to us [snip] As a result, it seems logical to me that sexual violence in fictional environments provokes more reactions that physical violence in the same fictional environments.

- re : your last point and my "right" to label each and every T-bagger in the game as "immature" : first of all and as a matter of principle, I am free to think what I think, and you have no power on that. Now, is it fair ? I don't know and frankly, I don't care. Don't you like to say that "offense is not given, just taken" ? Well, thinking badly of T-baggers is my way of negating what they do and to not let it under my skin. If I didn't think that way, it would hurt me to a point that you cannot even begin to imagine. So it's both a protection strategy as a true legit thinking. I've had guildmates that I truly, really liked and whose company I really enjoyed. Not only ingame. I also listened to their problems with their family, their kids, their partner, their job. I've seen them T-bagging. I've considered them as immature a*holes since then and stopped communicating with them. Perhaps some of them regret it and "wonder why". Their problem. If they did not want to face my judgement, of any judgement for that matter, all they had to do is to refrain from T-bagging in the first place. There's no way back here. T-bagging is a behaviour I can't either forget nor forgive.

I think you misunderstood me. I don't have a problem with you calling players who teabag others immature or making a judgement call about it. I'm just curious how you know when it's ok to criticize other players on here or post your judgement calls and when it isn't? Because every time I am even slightly critical of other players - even if I do so generally - [snip] I can't even refer to other players on the game as trolling without them coming after me.

For example: if (and I am not calling anyone anything so don't delete me please - this is just a hypothetical) I was to call players who get so offended by teabagging and want to ban others for it "immature"... let alone [snip] my post wouldn't last for a second.

So what's your secret? How do you know when it's ok to criticize other players on here and when it isn't? I'm sincerely asking because I honestly can't figure it out and you seem to be able to tell. So I am seriously asking for some pointers from you so that maybe I can actually write a post or share my opinion [snip]

[Edited to remove Profanity and Discussing Mod Action]

Sephyr

VaranisArano wrote: »

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

lol peeps should check the form check this link in the form bk from in apr 2018 it is not allowed https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/408524/teabagging-in-the-elder-scrolls-online-isnt-a-debate-its-actually-against-the-rules go to page 2

IIRC, that thread had some doubts as to the authenticity of the warning screenshot from 2015. But by all means, people should read it for themselves. And here's the original thread from 2015: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/206255/teabagging/

But to rehash an earlier point, if we're dragging out 2018 threads in order to say "its against the rules!" yet we all know teabagging is still happening...that's even more reason for ZOS to just say clear and upfront that it's against the rules now.

Because if its been against the rules since 2015, not making that clear has only perpetuated a PVP environment where its commonplace.

Not to mention that if it's been reported and followed up on, there's many serial baggers that have been here since 2015 and have continued to do it SINCE then. So I'm kind of seeing this as a case of Schrodinger's Rule Cat;

• Ticket handlers interpret the TOS differently, which is why clearer wordage needs to happen.
• It's not actually against the rules, so there's no need to extrapolate on the action.

Threads from the past feel enough to be anecdotal when we're looking at the first, which is probably the most likely. I could even completely be wrong and they just no longer bother with teabagging reports, but either way I definitely agree; without clear wording, it's only perpetuated it in the long run and will probably continue to do so until people send feedback in game to get them to change it as I have my doubts on how much feedback they gather on the forum.

SilverBride

Soul_Demon wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

And let me say this a second time....you have failed to explain in detail how a stealthing player with imaginary prescience in a fantasy world is committing a 'simulated act' in any way shape or form. You will need to get very specific as to when, where, how and how often in every possible scenario allowed in the game to show how in fact this is not only not allowed but is against the TOS as you have stated. In this imagined world no one is charged with 'murder' for hacking a fake enemy, with fake weapons to fake death. Please explain how this is anything other than your own personal belief with supporting quotes specifically laying out this by a Zenimax employee.

The only thing I need to explain in a thread about whether or not teabagging is against the ToS is why I believe it is. And I've done that. And isn't every reply to this thread the poster's own personal belief on the subject?

My personal belief on the matter is backed up by fact. It is a simulated sexual gesture that is performed as a means of humiliating the person playing the character. That is fact.

[Quoted post was removed]

Maybe you should expIain what teabagging is and why players do it.

Soul_Demon

SilverBride wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

And let me say this a second time....you have failed to explain in detail how a stealthing player with imaginary prescience in a fantasy world is committing a 'simulated act' in any way shape or form. You will need to get very specific as to when, where, how and how often in every possible scenario allowed in the game to show how in fact this is not only not allowed but is against the TOS as you have stated. In this imagined world no one is charged with 'murder' for hacking a fake enemy, with fake weapons to fake death. Please explain how this is anything other than your own personal belief with supporting quotes specifically laying out this by a Zenimax employee.

The only thing I need to explain in a thread about whether or not teabagging is against the ToS is why I believe it is. And I've done that. And isn't every reply to this thread the poster's own personal belief on the subject?

My personal belief on the matter is backed up by fact. It is a simulated sexual gesture that is performed as a means of humiliating the person playing the character. That is fact.

[Quoted post was removed]

Maybe you should expIain what teabagging is and why players do it.

Only the player can tell you why they did it....but its like a rooster crowing from what I have seen when one player fails to gank another and said player ends up killing the ganker. And to "teabag" as you call it one simply goes into stealth, then comes out of stealth. [snip] a dude goes into stealth with imaginary character in an imaginary place after an imaginary fight has taken place where one of them imaginary died.

[snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

Dusk_Coven

If people continue to hide behind excuses to allow humiliating another player with T-bagging, then the final recourse should be that they prove they didn't do it when they are reported.
This puts the onus on players to avoid the behavior completely.

Once or twice maybe they'll let you get away with "it was an accident / incidental". Too many times and you should be permanently banned because it starts to show a pattern of trying to get around the TOS.

Same with pets blocking stations. If it's there too long, don't care whether it was intentional or not. Just give them a suspension so they'll be careful next time by putting away their pet proactively.

Pauwer

I never thought of t-bagging as a sexual thing. I think of it more like hommage, because i usually get the bag after long 1 vs 1 fights that have been very equal and could have gone either way. My very, very first venture into cyrodill was a bit sexual in nature though. I was the biggest noob of all times and not prepared for pvp in any way. I just went to one of the towns to see what is there and two blue players were there and killed me less than a sec. I was a pretty little dark elf girl and they big guys and then they did push ups on my dead body. I was not traumatized in any way, cause i thought it was just kind of hilarious, it certainly was a memorable first time pvp experience, i will never forget but it definitely seemed to have a sexual wibe, which i don't get from t-bag at all. But i guess it's personal experience.

Ackwalan

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

If people continue to hide behind excuses to allow humiliating another player with T-bagging, then the final recourse should be that they prove they didn't do it when they are reported.
This puts the onus on players to avoid the behavior completely.

Once or twice maybe they'll let you get away with "it was an accident / incidental". Too many times and you should be permanently banned because it starts to show a pattern of trying to get around the TOS.

Same with pets blocking stations. If it's there too long, don't care whether it was intentional or not. Just give them a suspension so they'll be careful next time by putting away their pet proactively.

I saw you t-bag someone and I can get 3 people to also say the same thing. Now prove you didn't.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Soul_Demon wrote: »

[snip]

Ask Google or Wikipedia. It's all very well documented.
Any picture or link or text description of the sort will be deleted here.
There is not the slightest doubt as to what T-bagging means, is and simulates.

thorwyn

If people continue to hide behind excuses to allow humiliating another player with T-bagging, then the final recourse should be that they prove they didn't do it when they are reported.

Welcome to the witch hunt culture.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Jeremy wrote: »

So what's your secret? How do you know when it's ok to criticize other players on here and when it isn't? I'm sincerely asking because I honestly can't figure it out and you seem to be able to tell. So I am seriously asking for some pointers from you so that maybe I can actually write a post or share my opinion [snip]

Well... I don't know ? That's for mods to answer, and it is also forbidden to discuss moderation...

I'm not going to go through your post history and comment it, that's not, as I understand it, the point of your question.
I also don't pretend to "know-how" and [snip]

I guess the first thing to realise is that moderators are humans, therefore inconsistent, as we all are. Still the human brain does a better work than a machine when it comes to such "evaluation" or "interpretation" tasks. So, while it is a good thing to question oneself when we are corrected, it is also sometimes adequate to not take it too personally and understand that the person facing us is perhaps just having a bad day, like we all have every now and then.

Also context is everything : see, I did something forbidden twice in my posts, using the word [snip] with a trick to circumvent automated filters. That is 100% against forum rules. Yet everyone who reads the posts in question sees that it was done with the purpose of explaining something and not in a provocative, shocking or vulgar way.

Also, I'm being careful about my state of mind. Many people make the mistake to think that they are hidden behind the screen and the words. That's not true. The state of mind shows quite clearly through the words. If you are (or if I am) in a conflictual, frustrated, fighting, trolling or provocative state of mind, it will show, even if you're careful (I am not assuming anything about your state of mind though, you seem ok to me but I haven't seen the posts of yours that got deleted).

I've read the forum rules carefully a couple of years ago, and while I considered 99% of it as "just rules", there was one sentence in there that caught my attention : "if you have nothing nice to say, it's better to say nothing". You'd believe that at my age (53) that was nothing new to me ? But yet it was, at least in this crystal clear formulation. I've used that principle in here as well as in other parts of my life since then - for the better. And it has nothing to do with "shutting up".

And finally, the ping-pong (table soccer) mini-game consisting in mirroring someone's attacks is a "strategy" mostly used by trolls, to the point of being nearly a signature of trolling, and is quite always considered by moderators as a sterile attitude that deserves moderation. In the case of threads about T-Bagging in these forums, the "T-baggers need therapy" vs. "no, the people who are offended by mere pixels on screen are the ones who need therapy" is a typical back-and-forth non-dialogue situation that happens all the time, and maybe the mods are too familiar and perhaps tired with it.

As to me "calling T-baggers [snip]", again here context is everything. I wrote "I consider them [snip]" both as a subjective vision as well as a defensive strategy. Big difference... and I did not make this differentiation out of precaution, but because it is the truth in my mind, and I guess that, too, show through.

That's all I can say :-)

[Edited to remove Profanity and Discussing Mod Action]

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

SilverBride wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

And let me say this a second time....you have failed to explain in detail how a stealthing player with imaginary prescience in a fantasy world is committing a 'simulated act' in any way shape or form. You will need to get very specific as to when, where, how and how often in every possible scenario allowed in the game to show how in fact this is not only not allowed but is against the TOS as you have stated. In this imagined world no one is charged with 'murder' for hacking a fake enemy, with fake weapons to fake death. Please explain how this is anything other than your own personal belief with supporting quotes specifically laying out this by a Zenimax employee.

The only thing I need to explain in a thread about whether or not teabagging is against the ToS is why I believe it is. And I've done that. And isn't every reply to this thread the poster's own personal belief on the subject?

My personal belief on the matter is backed up by fact. It is a simulated sexual gesture that is performed as a means of humiliating the person playing the character. That is fact.

[Quoted post was removed]

Maybe you should expIain what teabagging is and why players do it.

he is a link discribing, but in game it started in halo, Corpse Humping, widely known as Teabagging, refers to the act of repeatedly crouching and standing up while standing over the dead "body" of a killed enemy, intended to mimic a sexual act. Online players teabag most frequently as a victory dance to insult and aggravate the victim. [snip]

[Edited to remove Malicious Link]

zaria

SilverBride wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

And let me say this a second time....you have failed to explain in detail how a stealthing player with imaginary prescience in a fantasy world is committing a 'simulated act' in any way shape or form. You will need to get very specific as to when, where, how and how often in every possible scenario allowed in the game to show how in fact this is not only not allowed but is against the TOS as you have stated. In this imagined world no one is charged with 'murder' for hacking a fake enemy, with fake weapons to fake death. Please explain how this is anything other than your own personal belief with supporting quotes specifically laying out this by a Zenimax employee.

The only thing I need to explain in a thread about whether or not teabagging is against the ToS is why I believe it is. And I've done that. And isn't every reply to this thread the poster's own personal belief on the subject?

My personal belief on the matter is backed up by fact. It is a simulated sexual gesture that is performed as a means of humiliating the person playing the character. That is fact.

Has anybody been banned or even gotten reprimanded for teabagging?
If no its not an against ToS.

Now the issue with the ToS is that its so wage.
In short anything who make ZoS look bad is against the ToS, so teabagging an streamer is probably against it.

anitajoneb17_ESO

zaria wrote: »

Has anybody been banned or even gotten reprimanded for teabagging?

Yes. People have been sanctioned and warned for T-bagging.
Evidence have been linked in this very thread.
Yes, T-bagging is against the TOS.
No, people are not often sanctioned for it, for plenty of reasons. Doesn't change the fact that it is something noone should do.

VaranisArano

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

[snip]

Ask Google or Wikipedia. It's all very well documented.
Any picture or link or text description of the sort will be deleted here.
There is not the slightest doubt as to what T-bagging means, is and simulates.

Here's one of the sources I looked at dealing with the history of teabagging. It covers it both as an sexual act AND as a gaming taunt.

[snip]

Because I do think that these arguments tend to struggle over the fact that its both.
It came from and symbolizes a sexual act.
Its also been a fairly universal PVP taunt for nearly 20 years, even to the point that some Devs want emotes for it in their games.

Now, we can argue back and forth whether its a bad/fine thing that 20 years of PVP gaming has made teabagging commonplace even in games marketed to teens, but that doesn't really change the fact that it has become so, and thus desensitized to a lot of PVP players.

So I see problems on both sides with recognizing context.
The "it's just PVP side" needs to acknowledge the sexual history/nature of the gesture.
And the "it's just sexual assault" side needs to acknowledge the context within PVP gaming.

And ZOS needs to get off the fence. "Its fine until someone gets offended" type enforcement protects no one.

[Edited to remove Malicious Link]

Soul_Demon

VaranisArano wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

[snip]

Ask Google or Wikipedia. It's all very well documented.
Any picture or link or text description of the sort will be deleted here.
There is not the slightest doubt as to what T-bagging means, is and simulates.

Here's one of the sources I looked at dealing with the history of teabagging. It covers it both as an sexual act AND as a gaming taunt.

[snip]

Because I do think that these arguments tend to struggle over the fact that its both.
It came from and symbolizes a sexual act.
Its also been a fairly universal PVP taunt for nearly 20 years, even to the point that some Devs want emotes for it in their games.

Now, we can argue back and forth whether its a bad/fine thing that 20 years of PVP gaming has made teabagging commonplace even in games marketed to teens, but that doesn't really change the fact that it has become so, and thus desensitized to a lot of PVP players.

So I see problems on both sides with recognizing context.
The "it's just PVP side" needs to acknowledge the sexual history/nature of the gesture.
And the "it's just sexual assault" side needs to acknowledge the context within PVP gaming.

And ZOS needs to get off the fence. "Its fine until someone gets offended" type enforcement protects no one.

Varanis, you are a married woman. Stop for one second and consider the mechanics of standing, then crouch over someones head, then walk off.....exactly what sexual act does that compare to? You already know the answer. The people who claim this in fact does relate to some specific act they encounter on a regular basis- need therapy and likely are extremely 'pent up' based on the mechanics alone.......

These ridiculous definitions a person can find on the net as well as people simply repeating over an over there is an act of some sort that translates to the normal sexual encounters a person has is absolutely ridiculous and smacks of some desperate basement dwellers reaching for something to be offend about. Its like using Wiki as a source or slang definitions to 'prove' your case.....its something most avoid at all costs. You well know my opinion on this specific issue----but letting someone make up a false reasoning as to why someone does this and then propagate it while making false claims is just a bad idea. There is no end to lies paraded as facts when you let the first one slide for want of less resistance and to take the easier path.

roflcopter

[snip]

Even they have their own form of trolling and tea bagging.

[Edited to remove Discussing Disciplinary Actions]

Soul_Demon

roflcopter wrote: »

[snip]

Even they have their own form of trolling and tea bagging.

You may not be speaking of mine above your post
"Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on September 15, 2020 9:23AM"
But nothing was changed.....I get the feeling the mods start to edit- read more carefully and realize there is nothing in violation and it leave the message. Could be on some they change things of course- but in this case no changes were made or ZOS has gone to automated bots flagging posts for real people to then go in and determine if violations are present.