Update on Cyrodiil Performance & Upcoming AOE Tests

ErMurazor

Its wierd to not being able to help an AD brother in need with some heals. Just stand by and watch him die.

sirmaxelotb16_ESO

I participated in all of the AOE test and I can confirm that none of them really eliminated the lag issue. Only the global AOE cooldown had a slight positive impact on performance. Atleast that's how I perceived it. But this change shouldn't make it to live because it is simply unfair for certain classes.
I mostly play solo in cyrodiil, but I always enjoyed supporting others around me. That's why I deliberatly chose sets and skill morphs that are less selfish but also help others. This I was also negatively impacted by the AOE test.

Now you are telling me this kind of playstyle will be completly obsolete within 10 days (on PC, Console even less)? Other changes are usually announced more then a month in advance.
It feels like you are implementing this change just to say "well done, we did, eh, something".

I also find the wording "we liked the behavioral changes they brought" quite concerning.
Only looking out for your own people, who are part of your own small group and leaving others to die.
Is this really the behavior Zenimax Online Studios likes to endorse and promote in their player base?

Cyrodiil has always been adverticed and was meant as an open PvP area where big armies fight over the various objectives. Actual 1vs1 combat is not the goal here. It is also not meant as playground where a select few can eigther grind their unkillable ball group around a keep until they don't get enough AP anymore or some lone fighters can complain if their "easy kill" dares to be traveling in a group.

renne

ErMurazor wrote: »

Its wierd to not being able to help an AD brother in need with some heals. Just stand by and watch him die.

For real. It's absolutely not fun at all not to be able to help your ally like that.

Like "Sorry, I'd give you heals, but we're not in a group, so... good luck I guess."

Thraben

This change leads to a very bad Cyrodiil experience for Newbs and casuals. It also affects PuG raids badly, as no sane person would lead 11 pugs of questionable ability and discipline while guild groups and small scalers alike just wait to farm them. Without the pug raids, there will be no zerg to surf, so the majority of players will be bored to death in their homekeeps.

In order to avoid an empty Cyro, drastic AP rewards must be given to reward those who lead PuG raids.

Karm1cOne

If they like certain behaviors from the player base, adjust rewards (AP, etc) to reflect that. Dont want people to ball at one place--- remove hammer. reduce ap for keep defense, especially long defenses. increase ap for player kills.

There are better ways to adjust player behavior and does not reduce play styles. I like running solo if i am only going to be on for an hour. I'll zerg serf if im on an alt and dont have the best gear. I'll run with bigger guild groups for the fun of playing with my friends. These play styles should not go away.

And anyone who thinks this will hurt ball groups is not seeing the big picture. This was a huge buff to those groups. 12 man ball groups will farm everyone without care, because the only way to beat them is to have more or better ball groups to kill them. Having more of your faction show up will not.

FrancisCrawford

Two sets of players that I think overlap heavily are:

• Casuals who won't want to play in Cyrodiil any more because they lost Rapid Maneuvers.
• Casuals who won't want to play in Cyrodiil any more because they like to run around solo, then heal when they bump into an allied group.

I'm in both those sets, and I'm glad I leveled all my characters up to Vigor and banked 35 geodes when I did.

Ralamil

NinchiTV wrote: »

Zergs finally got nerfed huh? bout time.

No, they didn't. This is, sadly, the most common reaction I see from people who don't seem to know what it is to play with friends in this game. If you think a group of 24 people is a zerg, you're an idiot, frankly. Sorry, there's no way to soften that blow.

The problem is not that a group could have 24 people. The problem has always been that certain people always try to stack entire factions in one location on the map. That's not going to change. I guarantee Reds will still stack the faction at Alessia or Arrius, or swarm around the Hammer, just as often. The only difference going forward is that there will be 8 groups of 12 people instead of 4 groups of 24 defending or taking those keeps.

But ZOS stubbornly refuses to address the problem, and every change I have ever seen them make as a way to disincentivize faction stacking ALWAYS end up doing the exact opposite eventually.

SwankSwan

This is depressing news to me. Tests that included "Shared global AOE cooldown" or "Ally-targeted abilities only applied to group members" were terrible for me. Most of my close PVP friends have their own play style which DOES NOT include healing. I understand the need to be self sufficient, but it is nice to know where to find heals when needed in a pinch. This will not be an option soon as these healing sources are outside group. Please note I am indifferent with 12 person groups.That is fine, whatever. I am just sad to hear that I can't play with my friends who choose not to heal. I can't play solo without getting wrecked. I guess my options are recruit a healer OR change the play style I love ie Bring Your Own Heals OR Don't play at all.

DigitalHype

At this point, the whole excercise feels like it was a stall tactic.

forztr2

I would have liked them to try rule changes before destroying an entire playstyle.

Make so capping a keep requires the 2 keep flags and all 3 resources to be held at the same time forcing the fighting to spread to the resources.

Change Emp dethrone to not boil down to a single keep.

The planned changes are going to kill casual play and everyone remaining is going to build a tanky self healing clone or run in a ball group.

techyeshic

forztr2 wrote: »

I would have liked them to try rule changes before destroying an entire playstyle.

Make so capping a keep requires the 2 keep flags and all 3 resources to be held at the same time forcing the fighting to spread to the resources.

Change Emp dethrone to not boil down to a single keep.

The planned changes are going to kill casual play and everyone remaining is going to build a tanky self healing clone or run in a ball group.

I like the idea of spreading out but I'd be afraid that having to have all 3 resources would call for even more to be at a keep. Would be rough for even 12 players to be at essentially 4 points yet there would be nothing stopping stacking 24+ on a resource flag to prevent capture of the keep.

forztr2

techyeshic wrote: »

I like the idea of spreading out but I'd be afraid that having to have all 3 resources would call for even more to be at a keep. Would be rough for even 12 players to be at essentially 4 points yet there would be nothing stopping stacking 24+ on a resource flag to prevent capture of the keep.

Good point. Maybe both keep flags and 2 out of 3 resources would be better or add flags to the corner towers of a keep.

My point was that other options should be looked at before they make changes that massively affect an individuals play. Game rules and systems doesn't seem to have been investigated as a potential solution.

Cirantille

Do we seriously need to explain how much of a bad idea this is to a big gaming company who has years of experience???

Ok, will try

I thought you wanted randoms, casual or new players in this game.

How do you expect a new rando casual 160 cp to find a lfg with random pugs against vSS trial groups running in Cyrodiil spamming 12 purge per second whereas he is like "Uhm.. guys..lfg?" spamming zone

If I wanted to build vSS set up and AOE spam, I would go PvE

It is almost like you don't hear people's feedbacks at all

alterfenixeb17_ESO

NinchiTV wrote: »

Zergs finally got nerfed huh? bout time.

If you are referring to all ball groups then no, they will be just boosted.

Eclipse0990

Cirantille wrote: »

Do we seriously need to explain how much of a bad idea this is to a big gaming company who has years of experience???

Ok, will try

I thought you wanted randoms, casual or new players in this game.

How do you expect a new rando casual 160 cp to find a lfg with random pugs against vSS trial groups running in Cyrodiil spamming 12 purge per second whereas he is like "Uhm.. guys..lfg?" spamming zone

If I wanted to build vSS set up and AOE spam, I would go PvE

It is almost like you don't hear people's feedbacks at all

How does this affect said randoms, casual or new players? Unless I'm missing something here, they still will have their playstyle and just need to bring their own heals. They don't have to do the whole "spamming 12 Purge per second" if they just build their toon properly.
The ones who will be affected by this are healers who like playing solo. Other than that and it's my personal opinion, if you want to go play solo in cyro, you bring sets and skills that allow you to really play solo there and not rely on any free healer throwing heals your way. Atleast that's how I build my toons for solo play.

Joy_Division

Eclipse0990 wrote: »

Cirantille wrote: »

Do we seriously need to explain how much of a bad idea this is to a big gaming company who has years of experience???

Ok, will try

I thought you wanted randoms, casual or new players in this game.

How do you expect a new rando casual 160 cp to find a lfg with random pugs against vSS trial groups running in Cyrodiil spamming 12 purge per second whereas he is like "Uhm.. guys..lfg?" spamming zone

If I wanted to build vSS set up and AOE spam, I would go PvE

It is almost like you don't hear people's feedbacks at all

How does this affect said randoms, casual or new players? Unless I'm missing something here, they still will have their playstyle and just need to bring their own heals. They don't have to do the whole "spamming 12 Purge per second" if they just build their toon properly.
The ones who will be affected by this are healers who like playing solo. Other than that and it's my personal opinion, if you want to go play solo in cyro, you bring sets and skills that allow you to really play solo there and not rely on any free healer throwing heals your way. Atleast that's how I build my toons for solo play.

It affects everyone not is a group. Not just healers.

You + random fight 2 grouped players. They can heal and buff each other, you and the random can;t. Egotistical players may still think they are so great that playing at a disadvantage won;t affect them (instead they'll just come onto these forums and ask for even more nerfs because they will die more often), but it is 100% factual in that situation, the fight is being played under two different rulesets.

Swaye

Although I know this comment won't make any difference, I've cancelled my subscription.

I'm a pure healing/support templar.

Shame on you zos.

Ranger209

Joy_Division wrote: »

Eclipse0990 wrote: »

Cirantille wrote: »

Do we seriously need to explain how much of a bad idea this is to a big gaming company who has years of experience???

Ok, will try

I thought you wanted randoms, casual or new players in this game.

How do you expect a new rando casual 160 cp to find a lfg with random pugs against vSS trial groups running in Cyrodiil spamming 12 purge per second whereas he is like "Uhm.. guys..lfg?" spamming zone

If I wanted to build vSS set up and AOE spam, I would go PvE

It is almost like you don't hear people's feedbacks at all

How does this affect said randoms, casual or new players? Unless I'm missing something here, they still will have their playstyle and just need to bring their own heals. They don't have to do the whole "spamming 12 Purge per second" if they just build their toon properly.
The ones who will be affected by this are healers who like playing solo. Other than that and it's my personal opinion, if you want to go play solo in cyro, you bring sets and skills that allow you to really play solo there and not rely on any free healer throwing heals your way. Atleast that's how I build my toons for solo play.

It affects everyone not is a group. Not just healers.

You + random fight 2 grouped players. They can heal and buff each other, you and the random can;t. Egotistical players may still think they are so great that playing at a disadvantage won;t affect them (instead they'll just come onto these forums and ask for even more nerfs because they will die more often), but it is 100% factual in that situation, the fight is being played under two different rulesets.

I agree Joy. As a person who runs quite often ungrouped in Cyrodiil I do like the idea of my heals healing only me....for the most part. I do see how playing an ungrouped healer would be virtually impossible, and that a negative, perhaps unintended, consequence of going to the system that they are would be in place.

Personally I would like to see them rewrite how buffs/heals are applied and get rid of the smart system and replace it with a hard TAB targeting system for allies only. I have expressed my thoughts on that in a few other threads and won't do it here, but it is out there if you care to look at the ideas behind it. Short of that someone mentioned a toggle to either be able to heal/buff group only, or the entire alliance. This could work as well. People in groups would toggle group only, people who are ungrouped and want their heals to themselves would as well toggle group only. People ungrouped who want to be able to heal/buff others could toggle to entire alliance. The dilemma still exists in that you don't know who is doing what by looking at them with the toggle, but it is a step closer to what is well and good. The TAB target of allies would eliminate that lack of knowing completely as anyone could heal/buff any ally as they see fit.

It does seem counterintuitive to not be able to heal/buff allies in an AvAvA game.

Cirantille

Ranger209 wrote: »

It does seem counterintuitive to not be able to heal/buff allies in an AvAvA game.

*Soldier gets shot*

*Medics arrive to scene*

"Uhm.. yeah.. sorry, we are not same whatsapp group, cant bandage it."

"But he is losing blood!"

"Well, first you gotta apply for a public whatsapp group sir, I am sorry."

"LFG!! URGENT LFG!11oneone"

IlCanis_LupuslI

FatherDelve wrote: »

All I can say is, that i have way less Performance Problems with 40 random zerglings around me, then having 8 Ballgroup Members spamming every 1 second a *** of abilities at 5 meters.

Sounds like someone got farmed badly ;-) I personally lag more when I'm healing 24 zerglings and 16 solo players zerg surfing

dvonpm

Agree that it really sucks not being able to throw a heal to someone who needs one. I typically play healers so not much I can do to help dps wise.

And my guild normally runs a full raid on weekends. At this point we will probably have to split into 2 or 3 discord channels and figure out some way other than typing for each raid lead to coordinate with other raid leads. Annoying.

Also going to have to waste time shuffling classes around between the groups to make sure we have balance.

I'd almost rather just have the lag since we still have it anyway.

driosketch

So, I noticed you also can't top off the guard NPCs with ground heal any longer. OCD rising....

badmojo

driosketch wrote: »

So, I noticed you also can't top off the guard NPCs with ground heal any longer. OCD rising....

Send them a group invite.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

i just think its all funny they have made ball groups more powerful, thats probs the devs probs play in them

sirmaxelotb16_ESO

I think those people in favor of this change miss the point why this change was introduced in the first place. They just cheer because they can eigther be sure that their heals always hit themself or because the change weakens others. But it was done to improve performance and frankly I don't see any improvement at all. Some days are ok others are laggy as hell. Same as before. The campaign (NO CP) is always pop locked for all factions.

And now ZOS is promoting Cyrodiil as a group challenge in a recent news post:
https://elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/59201
I guess this was done to convince people to accept this change.

What about the freedom to just explore Cyrodiil alone and take opportunities when they arise, without having to first group up with random people. Cyrodiil isn't a linear dungeon where you can basicly only go in 2 directions. It's a vast area with lots of obstecles and chockepoints that are not clearly visible on the map. So new (and sometimes experienced) players have a hard time following, catching up to or even just finding the way to a group that might be half way across the map.

And if I see a solo player getting ganked by an enemy I want to be able to help them with heals. Not just by uselessly flailing around my sword without actually hitting the attacker, because they are always "Target out of Range" through the massive lag.
Why must Cyrodiil be the only zone where healing an ungrouped ally is forbidden?!

I also find it quite suspicious that major gallop is broken now and reinforcements can't react as fast, because they take much longer to arrive. Are you purposely trying to slow down people so there won't be as many in a spot at once? I seriously hope this isn't another "behavioral change" that ZOS wants to force us into because they can't solve the problem on their end.

So if I would have to give points for how I agree with the newest change, this recent screenshot from Vateshran Hollows sums it up quite nicely.

FlaviusPK

sirmaxelotb16_ESO wrote: »

Now ZOS is promoting Cyrodiil as a group challenge in a recent news post.
I guess this was done to convince people to accept this change.
What about the freedom to just explore Cyrodiil.
Why must Cyrodiil be the only zone where healing an ungrouped ally is forbidden?!

Being dedicated group player myself I double this sir. Play the way you want huh, ZOS? So it's you guys playing the way you want in a game where you write the rules, not us players.

TequilaFire

I can just imagine a game where the players write the rules. lol

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

FlaviusPK wrote: »

sirmaxelotb16_ESO wrote: »

Now ZOS is promoting Cyrodiil as a group challenge in a recent news post.
I guess this was done to convince people to accept this change.
What about the freedom to just explore Cyrodiil.
Why must Cyrodiil be the only zone where healing an ungrouped ally is forbidden?!

Being dedicated group player myself I double this sir. Play the way you want huh, ZOS? So it's you guys playing the way you want in a game where you write the rules, not us players.

You are still free to play the way you want, ZOS never said that the way you want to play has to be equal to the way something is designed and optimized for. Want to solo heal - sure you still can there are skills for that, is it the best and most effective? no - it doesn't have to be.

Tommy_The_Gun

TequilaFire wrote: »

I can just imagine a game where the players write the rules. lol

Rich Lambert is also ESO player...

TequilaFire

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

I can just imagine a game where the players write the rules. lol

Rich Lambert is also ESO player...

And uses everything players want nerfed.