Maintenance for the week of August 17
• PC/Mac: No maintenance– August 17th
• Xbox One: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – August 20th, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) – 10:00AM EDT (14:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®4: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – August 20th, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) – 10:00AM EDT (14:00 UTC)
The Stonethorn DLC and Update 27 base game patch are now available to test on the PTS! Read the full patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts

Devs - The proposed Blood For Blood change will make Vampires LITERALLY UNUSABLE IN GROUP CONTENT.

JMadFour
JMadFour
✭✭✭✭✭
Hi.

I love being a Vampire. Vampire NB is now my main. I think the Greymoor Vampire is much, much better and more fun than the pre-Greymoor Vampire.

I just wanted to lead with that, so that when you read below, you understand where I am coming from.
Blood for Blood (morph):
Decreased the execute multiplier on this morph to 60%, down from 100%.
This ability now ranks up in 5% execute scaling damage per rank, rather than scaling in 1.1% damage per rank.
After casting this ability, you cannot be healed by allies for 5 seconds.

This last change to Blood For Blood must not make it to live. I feel like the Devs have not truly, fully considered the ramifications of this change.

Blood for Blood is a spammable. It will be used CONSTANTLY. All the time. Several times per fight. This will ensure that we have near 100% uptime on this debuff. We will ALWAYS have this debuff on us. Which means we will spend the vast majority of our time in any dungeon/trial/cyrodiil/Battlegrounds UNHEALABLE.

This alone, by itself, with no other changes to Vampire, will make Vampires COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY UNUSABLE IN ANY GROUP CONTENT. We will NOT be welcome. We WILL be kicked from groups constantly, We WILL be a liability to groups. We will be a DPS loss for every group we are ever in, because we will have to spend SO MUCH TIME self-healing because OUR GROUP HEALERS WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO HEAL US. We WILL NOT be able to argue against this, and no amount of "git gud" will allow us to work around this.

And again, I *love* being a Vampire now, I am having a lot of fun with it on Live, and it is much better now than it was prior to Greymoor. But these PTS changes will make Vampires unusable and unwelcome in Group content. if they go forward, I, a Vampire Main who loves being a Vampire and greatly enjoys playing my Vampire post Greymoor, will cure my Vampire.

Please don't do this. Find some other way to make BfB not mandatory for DPS. Make it cost Magicka. Decrease the damage. Increase the Health cost. something. But not this.
  • zvavi
    zvavi
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Hey, it will still be usable in pug dungeons where healer doesn't give resources (for sorc & NB).

    Then again people for some reason think that pug dungeons are "I solo with 3 other bots that I ignore" so maybe it isn't group content.
  • JinMori
    JinMori
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Oooh, yea, that is a very significant nerf, they just need to nerf the damage, bfb does about the same damage as other spammables, but no sustain problems at all, or something like that.
  • thadjarvis
    thadjarvis
    ✭✭✭
    For a group PvE player (trials/dungeons) this chapter gave us:

    Antiquities of which only Thrassian is useful which will become useless in trials
    Vampire option to increase sustain which will become unless in groups
    New trial sets of which only one was really useful which no longer will be

    I haven't bought Greymoore yet. Is there a point after these changes....?
  • Dusk_Coven
    Dusk_Coven
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    JMadFour wrote: »
    Please don't do this. Find some other way to make BfB not mandatory for DPS. Make it cost Magicka. Decrease the damage. Increase the Health cost. something. But not this.

    If they did that, then people won't want to use it and you're back to the same problem -- they will complain about vampires being "unusuable". Only this time it's because it's not worthwhile and they'll use something else to keep their numbers up. They won't even try to make it work because their numbers will go down.

    Not being healable means you can still at least choose which fights you can use it and which you can't.
    Edited by Dusk_Coven on July 18, 2020 1:26AM
  • bpgoodman90_ESO
    bpgoodman90_ESO
    Soul Shriven
    I am a magicka tank, and this morph is my only real spammable attack that prevents me from draining stamina and magicka, it is a god send that has helped me kill in solo play, and feel more active during boss, if this healing debuff gets through my friends and i can't support one another, which with the new monster set i really feel like i need this move. I am fine with the damage being hit, i can see why it is potent and needs to be balanced, but the debuff? Please no..
  • VoidCommander
    VoidCommander
    ✭✭✭
    Literally just need to drop the “increases damage as health goes down” entirely. Do that and the ability becomes balenced and takes its rightful place as a sustain solution at a cost of spammable dps. If people *** about THAT nerf, then make it have a range of 15 meters as its morph specialty. Additionally the other morph should also cost health, while maintaining the current ability at melee range.
  • FrancisCrawford
    FrancisCrawford
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Perhaps the idea is that you are spending a skillbar slot on it as a sustain aid. Cast it 4 times in 6 seconds, for example, with the other 2 being whatever is up in your rotation. You are unhealable for a total of 10 seconds. You saved 4x your spammable's cost in magicka. Some time later, do it all over again.

    If vampire had zero drawbacks, I can see that being worth a skillbar slot, maybe. It doesn't seem nearly as good as, say, Siphoning Attacks or the Netch, but those are standout skills for otherwise dubious specs.

    But with vampire's drawbacks too, the new BfB doesn't seem worth it at all.
  • deLioncourt
    deLioncourt
    ✭✭✭✭
    DT-ARR wrote: »
    I guarantee you that ZOS does not intend for it to go live in such a form. Mark my words, they will adjust it in .2 or .3 to read something like, after using BfB player will receive 50% less healing from players after 5 seconds. And then they will claim that they compromise / listen to the player community.

    Just like buying or listing a house. You always mark it up by a good bit from your desired sell price because you know that youre going to be “low balled”. Then you “negotiate” and meet in the middle at the price you always wanted to sell at.

    ZOS knows that by unrolling the changes this way that they can head off some of the complaints. If they started with 50% less healing theyd still face the same amount of outrage. Now at least, assuming they operate like described above, they will have placated a good % of people who will think “well at least it wasnt what it was before”.

    I wouldn't even care about 50% less healing. I would actually prefer that because b4b scales off of your missing health. This would increase dps because you'd spent slightly less time at max health.

    This would actually end up being a buff for B4B.
  • Kittytravel
    Kittytravel
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Feel like the correct course of action for this was just a 30% damage nerf on BfB with a 40% healing reduction for x seconds after using it. The damage nerf is to ensure it's used by classes to fill in sustain issues that previously existed and the healing reduction is so you can build up other comboing onto other vamp skills. Perhaps granting vampire it's own identity centered around that healing reduction debuff such as having DPS increases on their abilities while debuffed by it. Can even change more of their skills to cost health to double down on the risks they will take for their playstyle but encouraging full vampire builds in the process.

    Either way the issue is that B4B over performed for 80% of magicka classes and now rather than toning its damage down it'll just get eliminated.
  • Fur_like_snow
    Fur_like_snow
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I said three weeks ago that BfB would get nerfed because it became BiS for raid parsing along with the soon to be worthless thrassians. When the hammer finally came down it’s never a gentle nerf. We’ve asked for improvements to the skill line but Zeni seems to think it somehow “checks all the boxes”. If by all the boxes they mean RP and overland than sure those boxes got checked.
    Edited by Fur_like_snow on July 18, 2020 7:30PM
  • brandoncoffmannub18_ESO
    brandoncoffmannub18_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Should change to combat/game design focus, devs don't choose, they just do.

    That being said, yeah bfb is now pretty trashy on most classes, it's still usable on a few builds in a few places but it's.. lol.
    Edited by brandoncoffmannub18_ESO on July 18, 2020 8:22PM
    Jodynn PC NA
    PvE and PvP MagDK
  • WrathOfInnos
    WrathOfInnos
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    JinMori wrote: »
    Oooh, yea, that is a very significant nerf, they just need to nerf the damage, bfb does about the same damage as other spammables, but no sustain problems at all, or something like that.

    This. Blood for Blood being a free spammable is a great sustain tool, and would be balanced if it did similar damage to other spammables, and had the downsides of melee range and increased cost on other skills from vampirism. It was only a problem because each cast of BFB did more damage instantly than most delayed-burst or DoT skills over their full duration, in addition to the endless sustain in any content with a healer.

    Maybe overhealing in all content should just restore Magicka and Stamina :p Jk that would obviously be broken.
  • StamPlar_1976
    StamPlar_1976
    ✭✭✭
    I hope this goes through. I really want this nerf to happen.
  • OmniDo
    OmniDo
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't use any of the active vampire skills at all, post-greymoor.
    The only novelty I enjoy is Unnatural Movement and Dark Stalker.
    The rest of the Vampire line is crap.

    That said, I've been able to adjust my gear and enchants to compensate for the arbitrary and non-canonical ability cost increases, though I did take a small hit in end-game performance. And since I have purchased the $40US Vampire furnishings, I don't have to craft or carry the nonsensical bloody-mara drinks anymore.

    Zeni just fubar'd Vampire.
    Let's not waste time doing anything but calling it for what it is: Crap.
  • brandoncoffmannub18_ESO
    brandoncoffmannub18_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    After this change I liked vamp before greymoor better, at least then I had the 10% recovery.
    Jodynn PC NA
    PvE and PvP MagDK
  • ManM
    ManM
    ✭✭
    I imagine the devs are looking at the complaining about viability in group content and thinking vampire is working as intended. Vampires are shunned and detested in the lore of ESO. They are just trying to replicate that isolating experience for the player.
    NPCs won't talk to you. You get a bounty if you out yourself with skills in public. And now, you are a detriment to group play, so other players won't want you either. It's immersion!

    The vampire skill line looks like it is being actively tuned for solo play only. Anything that is viable for group play is going to get nerfed or otherwise disrupted. Let's just hope they don't realize mist is still situationally useful for tanks. They might make it drain the life of teammates or something.
    Edited by ManM on July 20, 2020 7:50PM
  • Arunei
    Arunei
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    DT-ARR wrote: »
    Im just tired of being jerked around. As a casual player, it take me a good bit of time to adapt to every nonsensical nerf/buff zos makes. Its frustrating to the extreme to finally feel like ive developed a playstyle that doesnt get me instant booted from group content only to have that ripped out from under me by the next patch.

    I mean...its been what...a month since greymore went live? It takes me that long just to farm a set or save up enough gold to buy off a guild trader.

    F it.

    I feel you on this front. I don't follow metas, partly because a) I'm not a good enough player to get some of the BIS gear from trials or harder dungeons, and b) I get more enjoyment out of finding a build that really works on my own, it's more rewarding. But when every major patch brings with it sledgehammer nerfs to problems that were caused because of massive sweeping buffs, it usually results in a build that might have taken weeks to put together and get working being ruined to some degree. ZOS never seems to learn their lesson about not making giant changes, instead of tweaking numbers and testing things from there they just take a wrecking ball to things, practically every time.

    I've gotten pretty tired of it myself, to the point where after the massive AoE nerf of u24 I think it was (might have been u23, I have a horrible memory), I largely stopped playing and mostly just RP now. I get that it's an MMO and things will change so they don't become stale and stagnant, but that doesn't mean things have to be so hugely nerfed-buffed-nerfed-buffed every. Single. Major. Update. You can make changes without doing it the way ZOS tends to do it.
    Character List [RP and PvE]:
    Stands-Against-Death: Argonian Magplar Healer - Crafter
    Krisiel: Redguard Stamsorc DPS - Literally crazy Werewolf, no like legit insane. She nuts
    Kiju Veran: Khajiit Stamblade DPS - Ex-Fighters Guild Suthay who likes to punch things, nicknamed Tinykat
    Niralae Elsinal: Altmer Stamsorc DPS - Young Altmer with way too much Magicka
    Sarah Lacroix: Breton Magsorc DPS - Fledgling Vampire who drinks too much water
    Slondor: Nord Tankblade - TESified verson of Slenderman
    Marius Vastino: Imperial <insert role here> - Sarah's apathetic sire who likes to monologue
    Delthor Rellenar: Dunmer Magknight DPS - Sarah's ex who's a certified psychopath
    Lirawyn Calatare: Altmer Magplar Healer - Traveling performer and bard who's 101% vanilla bean
    Gondryn Beldeau: Breton Tankplar - Sarah's Mages Guild mentor and certified badass old person
    Gwendolyn Jenelle: Breton Magplar Healer - Friendly healer with a coffee addiction
    Soliril Larethian- Altmer Magblade DPS - Blind alchemist who uses animals to see and brews plagues in his spare time
    Tevril Rallenar: Dunmer Stamcro DPS - Delthor's "special" younger brother who raises small animals as friends
    Celeroth Calatare: Bosmer <insert role here> - Shapeshifting Bosmer with enough sass to fill Valenwood

    PC - NA - EP - CP1000+
    Avid RPer. Hit me up in-game @Ras_Lei if you're interested in getting together for some arr-pee shenanigans!
  • Vevvev
    Vevvev
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ManM wrote: »
    The vampire skill line looks like it is being actively tuned for solo play only. Anything that is viable for group play is going to get nerfed or otherwise disrupted. Let's just hope they don't realize mist is still situationally useful for tanks. They might make it drain the life of teammates or something.

    Don't give them ideas...
    PC NA
    Breton MagDK
Sign In or Register to comment.