A new player feedback - ESO is both phenomenal and terrible

Lysette

eKsDee wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

eKsDee wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

eKsDee wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

now just imagine how 'fun' questing is for people at max level, with good gear and rotations they (try to) do automatically at this point

You don't even have the time to do a rotation, kek. My magblade, in purple gear with no buffs or anything else up, just crits and the Shadow mundus, could almost kill a mob in a single light attack + Swallow Soul cast. It's insane.

Ikr.
Me, trying out new skill in a rotation: Practise time!*casts one skill and a light attack*
Mob: *promptly dies*
Me: ...oh. *stands there like an idiot with proc'd frags but nothing to cast it on*

I mean, I don't expect to do a 10 min parse on a trash mob of course but like...this makes actually learning so counter intuitive. As a new player who did not think to look up a guide first of all, how would you even stumble upon needing a proper rotation when it's so not needed in open world?

I don't expect to even get through half a rotation on a trash mob, I don't want fights to drag on for that long.

I just want to have to be in combat for more than half a second, I just want to have to use more than one skill (plus a light attack) with optional spamming of said skill (plus light attack).

I just want to have to watch what I'm doing and where I'm going to make sure I don't screw up and potentially kill myself, I just want to have to actively dodge and heal and react to mobs, and ideally for them to react to me (I'm casting a telegraphed, interruptable skill -> mob bashes me -> I get stunned -> mob becomes more aggressive -> I have to break stun and heal to survive).

I want to have to use my damn brain when questing. ESO questing is currently all flavour, with no substance. Story should work hand in hand with and complement the gameplay to actually tell a story. I shouldn't be told "this dude is extremely dangerous, he must die" and almost kill him in just a single light attack + Swallow Soul cast.

Hard to get in a game where ping value differ between 20ms and 480ms - you forget about those with high ping who could never escape red or react to anything in time, because they see all delayed and their actions arrive at the server delayed. it is all easy with a low ping - but quite hard with a high ping.

I play with that ping and I mostly do fine.

yeah me too - but why? - because i have an insane health regeneration rate - so I can stand in red. With just normal regen this wouldn't be possible.

eKsDee

Lysette wrote: »

eKsDee wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

eKsDee wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

eKsDee wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

now just imagine how 'fun' questing is for people at max level, with good gear and rotations they (try to) do automatically at this point

You don't even have the time to do a rotation, kek. My magblade, in purple gear with no buffs or anything else up, just crits and the Shadow mundus, could almost kill a mob in a single light attack + Swallow Soul cast. It's insane.

Ikr.
Me, trying out new skill in a rotation: Practise time!*casts one skill and a light attack*
Mob: *promptly dies*
Me: ...oh. *stands there like an idiot with proc'd frags but nothing to cast it on*

I mean, I don't expect to do a 10 min parse on a trash mob of course but like...this makes actually learning so counter intuitive. As a new player who did not think to look up a guide first of all, how would you even stumble upon needing a proper rotation when it's so not needed in open world?

I don't expect to even get through half a rotation on a trash mob, I don't want fights to drag on for that long.

I just want to have to be in combat for more than half a second, I just want to have to use more than one skill (plus a light attack) with optional spamming of said skill (plus light attack).

I just want to have to watch what I'm doing and where I'm going to make sure I don't screw up and potentially kill myself, I just want to have to actively dodge and heal and react to mobs, and ideally for them to react to me (I'm casting a telegraphed, interruptable skill -> mob bashes me -> I get stunned -> mob becomes more aggressive -> I have to break stun and heal to survive).

I want to have to use my damn brain when questing. ESO questing is currently all flavour, with no substance. Story should work hand in hand with and complement the gameplay to actually tell a story. I shouldn't be told "this dude is extremely dangerous, he must die" and almost kill him in just a single light attack + Swallow Soul cast.

Hard to get in a game where ping value differ between 20ms and 480ms - you forget about those with high ping who could never escape red or react to anything in time, because they see all delayed and their actions arrive at the server delayed. it is all easy with a low ping - but quite hard with a high ping.

I play with that ping and I mostly do fine.

yeah me too - but why? - because i have an insane health regeneration rate - so I can stand in red. With just normal regen this wouldn't be possible.

And yet I do fine without building for crazy survival, even in PvP. Yes, it is harder with ping that's naturally this high, but it's not impossible unless you're on an incredibly unstable connection that's fluctuating rapidly, at which point I'd say that your unstable connection shouldn't impact my enjoyment of the game.

It's your problem and your decision as to whether you want to continue playing ESO despite your connection, or you want to find another game that works, or you simply drop the difficulty considering I'd like an optional difficulty setting to be added, rather than a global difficulty increase.

Lysette

Higher difficulty would for me be acceptable if the mob density would be lower - every few steps another mob would be very annoying if fights would take longer than a few seconds.

Lysette

eKsDee wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

eKsDee wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

eKsDee wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

eKsDee wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

now just imagine how 'fun' questing is for people at max level, with good gear and rotations they (try to) do automatically at this point

You don't even have the time to do a rotation, kek. My magblade, in purple gear with no buffs or anything else up, just crits and the Shadow mundus, could almost kill a mob in a single light attack + Swallow Soul cast. It's insane.

Ikr.
Me, trying out new skill in a rotation: Practise time!*casts one skill and a light attack*
Mob: *promptly dies*
Me: ...oh. *stands there like an idiot with proc'd frags but nothing to cast it on*

I mean, I don't expect to do a 10 min parse on a trash mob of course but like...this makes actually learning so counter intuitive. As a new player who did not think to look up a guide first of all, how would you even stumble upon needing a proper rotation when it's so not needed in open world?

I don't expect to even get through half a rotation on a trash mob, I don't want fights to drag on for that long.

I just want to have to be in combat for more than half a second, I just want to have to use more than one skill (plus a light attack) with optional spamming of said skill (plus light attack).

I just want to have to watch what I'm doing and where I'm going to make sure I don't screw up and potentially kill myself, I just want to have to actively dodge and heal and react to mobs, and ideally for them to react to me (I'm casting a telegraphed, interruptable skill -> mob bashes me -> I get stunned -> mob becomes more aggressive -> I have to break stun and heal to survive).

I want to have to use my damn brain when questing. ESO questing is currently all flavour, with no substance. Story should work hand in hand with and complement the gameplay to actually tell a story. I shouldn't be told "this dude is extremely dangerous, he must die" and almost kill him in just a single light attack + Swallow Soul cast.

Hard to get in a game where ping value differ between 20ms and 480ms - you forget about those with high ping who could never escape red or react to anything in time, because they see all delayed and their actions arrive at the server delayed. it is all easy with a low ping - but quite hard with a high ping.

I play with that ping and I mostly do fine.

yeah me too - but why? - because i have an insane health regeneration rate - so I can stand in red. With just normal regen this wouldn't be possible.

And yet I do fine without building for crazy survival, even in PvP. Yes, it is harder with ping that's naturally this high, but it's not impossible unless you're on an incredibly unstable connection that's fluctuating rapidly, at which point I'd say that your unstable connection shouldn't impact my enjoyment of the game.

It's your problem and your decision as to whether you want to continue playing ESO despite your connection, or you want to find another game that works, or you simply drop the difficulty considering I'd like an optional difficulty setting to be added, rather than a global difficulty increase.

well, i give that back to you - it's your problem that ESO is too easy for you - I'm not the one complaining here, I like it as it is. my connection is fine, it is eso not being able to hold a connection - i play eve across the globe and never loose connection or have any trouble to play a hardcore pvp game which actually works properly.

rei91

Noxavian wrote: »

Quest Bosses (Like the final boss of the entire *** chapter) to be hard.

They SHOULD require thinking, strategy. Mechanics.

The fact anyone can fight the final boss of the ENTIRE EXPANSION with ease is just dumb.

I will give some people here some credit with the overland argument, sure, but bosses being easy? There's no excuse for that. It literally defeats the purpose of calling them a boss, they might as well bea mob.

So much this

Well people with "but casual noobs" arguments. Here's the person explicitly stating he had no MMO experience, new the game, saying overland is to easy. I can totally feel OP because I was the same - no MMO experience, only good ol' RPGs, and after few days it was too easy.

And no abandoning the main part of the game - quests and overland exploring - to finally find some difficulty - is not a good advice.

Why are so many people against OPTIONAL (I mean optional... wait, I mentioned optional right?) difficulty mode of any kind is beyond me.

Sergykid

scaling is to help you level up, until the max level that is 160 (when the gear caps). Since here you will have to work for your gear and build. Have you tried going into a dungeon? have you soloed it? doesn't have to be vet.

the easy thing you fought are the overland, but obviously overland has the easiest mobs in the game. There's world bosses, dungeons, trials, arenas, and many more. Don't judge the difficulty from quests and overland, those are just training.

KarlosCV

tet666 wrote: »

Nord_Raseri wrote: »

So you ran around some overland content with a magplar for a few hours and think you've soloed everything? Jump into a group dungeon alone(Travel right in, don't queue). I suggest City of Ash 2 or Vaults of Madness if you meet the level requirement. That'll change your view a bit.

How does this fix questing being way too easy? He still needs to do it and it will still be unenjoyable to him.

Yeah, exactly.

I've posted the same thread on Reddit and a lot of people said the same thing - level up your character to 50 and then there is challenge. The problem is maxing out your character takes how long, dozens of hours? While jogging around and pressing "1" repeatedly, melting everything? Which is what I was doing to get to level 8 (where I'm currently) - about 7 hours.

How can anyone enjoy the levelling process in this game, seriously? Honestly if Zenimax was selling character boosts like WoW I'd just boosted my templar to lvl 50 so I can try the actual game.

It's such a shame. I basically love everything about ESO except that one thing which makes the game almost unplayable for me.

Are there any rumours they'd address that? I guess they're not gonna rid of the general concept of scaling, since the majority likes it that way, but maybe they could scale the game in a smarter way. For example what was wrong with the way Skyrim did scaling? That was a perfect balance for me.

Lysette

rei91 wrote: »

Noxavian wrote: »

Quest Bosses (Like the final boss of the entire *** chapter) to be hard.

They SHOULD require thinking, strategy. Mechanics.

The fact anyone can fight the final boss of the ENTIRE EXPANSION with ease is just dumb.

I will give some people here some credit with the overland argument, sure, but bosses being easy? There's no excuse for that. It literally defeats the purpose of calling them a boss, they might as well bea mob.

So much this

Well people with "but casual noobs" arguments. Here's the person explicitly stating he had no MMO experience, new the game, saying overland is to easy. I can totally feel OP because I was the same - no MMO experience, only good ol' RPGs, and after few days it was too easy.

And no abandoning the main part of the game - quests and overland exploring - to finally find some difficulty - is not a good advice.

Why are so many people against OPTIONAL (I mean optional... wait, I mentioned optional right?) difficulty mode of any kind is beyond me.

I'm personally not against optional more difficulty - but against the demand for better rewards coming with it.

Nord_Raseri

tet666 wrote: »

Nord_Raseri wrote: »

So you ran around some overland content with a magplar for a few hours and think you've soloed everything? Jump into a group dungeon alone(Travel right in, don't queue). I suggest City of Ash 2 or Vaults of Madness if you meet the level requirement. That'll change your view a bit.

How does this fix questing being way too easy? He still needs to do it and it will still be unenjoyable to him.

It doesn't. I did not say it does. As far as I read it seemed OP felt there was absolutely nothing challenging in the game. I offered information OP may or may not know. As for questing, yeah I agree, it should have an option to be more difficult.

Zabagad

KarlosCV wrote: »

Which is what I was doing to get to level 8 (where I'm currently) - about 7 hours.

Really? 7 hours and only level 8? And already bored?
After reading your first post, I was close to agree - but second post let me think different now.

In german we say you have "Welpenschutz" till level 10 - its important that new players are not dying every fight, so they implemented something that will slowly decrease starting with level 10. Its my guess - I only feel it when I level up a new char, that the first 10 level are much easier then the next 10 and so on.

So - at least you should give the game a chance till you reach level 50.

eKsDee

Lysette wrote: »

well, i give that back to you - it's your problem that ESO is too easy for you - I'm not the one complaining here, I like it as it is.

Apparently not, considering there's now been over a dozen threads brought up on the forums regarding overland difficulty within the last month or two, not to mention over on the subreddit, not to mention outside of our little community bubbles in the game itself, or in the greater MMO community.

Regardless, again, that's why I'm pushing for an optional difficulty setting. Optional. Me raising my personal difficulty won't impact your difficulty, or anybody else's. So you get to keep the game how you like it, and I get to actually enjoy overland content and questing.

Lysette wrote: »

my connection is fine, it is eso not being able to hold a connection - i play eve across the globe and never loose connection or have any trouble to play a hardcore pvp game which actually works properly.

Still your connection. Personally, my ping is above average for an Australian player, sometimes getting up to that 400-450 mark you mentioned (happened often when Akamai was messing with Oceanic connections), and I don't struggle anywhere near as much as you do, even in PvP.

You're the outlier here, and while it sucks that you are (I know it, since I lived it back during the Akamai fiasco), you're still the outlier, and you should be treated as the outlier. Your problems and experiences shouldn't dictate how everybody else's experience, you should work around your own problems and experiences, to try to enjoy the game as much as you can.

Again, this is why I'm pushing for an optional difficulty increase. I recognise that not everyone likes challenging gameplay, I recognise that not everyone has the ability to participate in challenging gameplay (whether due to health complications or connection issues), and I recognise that not everyone plays the game to be challenged.

This is why an optional difficulty increase is the best solution, because it keeps everybody's experiences separate, and allows them to tailor the difficulty of their experience to their situation and playstyle. I can't fathom how anybody would say no to something like this, especially if they blow it off by saying "not everyone wants overland to be harder", since this solution keeps the difficulty personal, and... looks around... obviously some people want it to be harder.

Lysette

eKsDee wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

well, i give that back to you - it's your problem that ESO is too easy for you - I'm not the one complaining here, I like it as it is.

Apparently not, considering there's now been over a dozen threads brought up on the forums regarding overland difficulty within the last month or two, not to mention over on the subreddit, not to mention outside of our little community bubbles in the game itself, or in the greater MMO community.

Regardless, again, that's why I'm pushing for an optional difficulty setting. Optional. Me raising my personal difficulty won't impact your difficulty, or anybody else's. So you get to keep the game how you like it, and I get to actually enjoy overland content and questing.

Lysette wrote: »

my connection is fine, it is eso not being able to hold a connection - i play eve across the globe and never loose connection or have any trouble to play a hardcore pvp game which actually works properly.

Still your connection. Personally, my ping is above average for an Australian player, sometimes getting up to that 400-450 mark you mentioned (happened often when Akamai was messing with Oceanic connections), and I don't struggle anywhere near as much as you do, even in PvP.

You're the outlier here, and while it sucks that you are (I know it, since I lived it back during the Akamai fiasco), you're still the outlier, and you should be treated as the outlier. Your problems and experiences shouldn't dictate how everybody else's experience, you should work around your own problems and experiences, to try to enjoy the game as much as you can.

Again, this is why I'm pushing for an optional difficulty increase. I recognise that not everyone likes challenging gameplay, I recognise that not everyone has the ability to participate in challenging gameplay (whether due to health complications or connection issues), and I recognise that not everyone plays the game to be challenged.

This is why an optional difficulty increase is the best solution, because it keeps everybody's experiences separate, and allows them to tailor the difficulty of their experience to their situation and playstyle. I can't fathom how anybody would say no to something like this, especially if they blow it off by saying "not everyone wants overland to be harder", since this solution keeps the difficulty personal, and... looks around... obviously some people want it to be harder.

i am fine with that as long as they don't demand as well better rewards - i just don't believe them if they want better rewards as well.

KarlosCV

kargen27 wrote: »

eKsDee wrote: »

And here come the "overland difficulty is fine, go run dungeons, go fight mobs naked, go fight mobs unarmed, go take off your CP" replies. OP, if you want even an inkling of actual gameplay to complement your questing, ESO isn't the game for you, and it likely won't ever be, because this community is too attached to overland being a 1-button-spam-fest where nothing even poses even the remotest of challenges.

Not so much that we are attached as we are resigned. I've been here since BETA and I know why ZoS made the decision they did. Sure I would like an option for harder overland battles. I do believe there are more pressing needs however.

And as I said earlier the easy content doesn't take away from the quests. They are well written and interesting for the most part. If that isn't what you like find a grind that suits you and level up for the harder content.

So why did Zenimax do it? It's weird because they went the opposite direction to Bethesda. People complained so much about the ridiculous scaling in Oblivion it became a meme so Bethesda did a great job with a much smarter scaling in Skyrim. Meanwhile Zenimax went even beyond the Oblivion scaling.

As for quests, yeah, they are interesting. Also the lore, I'm reading most of the books I find. So maybe I will get used to the fact that the base content is just a sightseeing simulator. I'll keep playing for at least a few more days.

KarlosCV

Zabagad wrote: »

KarlosCV wrote: »

Which is what I was doing to get to level 8 (where I'm currently) - about 7 hours.

Really? 7 hours and only level 8?

Mainly hopping around the world, checking the cities, taking on quests, talking with people, reading books, running around admiring the view and generally goofing around. Same thing I always do in every new RPG I start.

Zabagad

KarlosCV wrote: »

Zabagad wrote: »

KarlosCV wrote: »

Which is what I was doing to get to level 8 (where I'm currently) - about 7 hours.

Really? 7 hours and only level 8?

Mainly hopping around the world, checking the cities, taking on quests, talking with people, reading books, running around admiring the view and generally goofing around. Same thing I always do in every new RPG I start.

That was the wrong part to quote - you didnt get it what I wanna tell you...

Lysette

-

KarlosCV wrote: »

Zabagad wrote: »

KarlosCV wrote: »

Which is what I was doing to get to level 8 (where I'm currently) - about 7 hours.

Really? 7 hours and only level 8?

Mainly hopping around the world, checking the cities, taking on quests, talking with people, reading books, running around admiring the view and generally goofing around. Same thing I always do in every new RPG I start.

took me even longer - because i did what i do in most rpgs - gathering materials and picking flowers at first.

Lysette

KarlosCV wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

eKsDee wrote: »

And here come the "overland difficulty is fine, go run dungeons, go fight mobs naked, go fight mobs unarmed, go take off your CP" replies. OP, if you want even an inkling of actual gameplay to complement your questing, ESO isn't the game for you, and it likely won't ever be, because this community is too attached to overland being a 1-button-spam-fest where nothing even poses even the remotest of challenges.

Not so much that we are attached as we are resigned. I've been here since BETA and I know why ZoS made the decision they did. Sure I would like an option for harder overland battles. I do believe there are more pressing needs however.

And as I said earlier the easy content doesn't take away from the quests. They are well written and interesting for the most part. If that isn't what you like find a grind that suits you and level up for the harder content.

So why did Zenimax do it? It's weird because they went the opposite direction to Bethesda. People complained so much about the ridiculous scaling in Oblivion it became a meme so Bethesda did a great job with a much smarter scaling in Skyrim. Meanwhile Zenimax went even beyond the Oblivion scaling.

As for quests, yeah, they are interesting. Also the lore, I'm reading most of the books I find. So maybe I will get used to the fact that the base content is just a sightseeing simulator. I'll keep playing for at least a few more days.

they did it because before zones were level gated - and one could outlevel a zone before one has done all the contents in it very easily. The scaling is there that you can do any overland content right away and go wherever you want from the start.

then elder scrolls has more than a quarter century under it's belt - which means it has as well a large group of older fans as well and those might not be as quick as younger ones anymore.

Tammany

As a noob, who had experience in la2, bdo, wow and now 3 months of ESO i think scalling is trully awesome.
*** standart mobs wasnt a hard work in any mmorpg game (even wow classic),. but the ability to level wherever you want is priceless.

Today i want summerset, tomorrow i'll be tired of it and want some dusty location.
Being stuck to one location due to lvl restrictions is a chore.

It's a very different experience from something like Witcher.

Yeah. sure.
Because you can not complete all content in witcher with 2 buttons on any diffuculty.
Oh wait, you can.

Lysette

Tammany wrote: »

As a noob, who had experience in la2, bdo, wow and now 3 months of ESO i think scalling is trully awesome.
*** standart mobs wasnt a hard work in any mmorpg game (even wow classic),. but the ability to level wherever you want is priceless.

Today i want summerset, tomorrow i'll be tired of it and want some dusty location.
Being stuck to one location due to lvl restrictions is a chore.

It's a very different experience from something like Witcher.

Yeah. sure.
Because you can not complete all content in witcher with 2 buttons on any diffuculty.
Oh wait, you can.

true the almighty quen sign.

TheShadowScout

KarlosCV wrote: »

The moment I learned there's not a single challenge anywhere in the world...

...you loose motivation until you find there still are.
Sure, overland content is nerfed to "everyone can do it" levels all over tamriel, as to not scare away newbies. The battle levelling is especially strong for lowbie characters, to give them a leg up... but even at endgame characters you will find overland to be mostly sleepwalkingly easy (with the exception of the world bosses, dragons, etc.; especially the DLC area ones). And that is before you start adding CP to your power levels too...
BUT!
There are still challenges to be had! Go visit craglown someday, and poke your head into one of the lower craglorn groupy dwelves! Tell us how it felt!
For less tough stuff, there is soloing the public dungeons... soloing non-DLC world bosses and dolmens...
And for another fun challenge... you can go and give pvP a try. You will find some really, really good players morderdeathkilling their way through cyrodil and battlegrounds... if gank and be ganked in Imperial City...

Heck, some of the bossfights in DLCs have nice mechanics too, to make it not quite as facerolly...

idk wrote: »

I remember leveling a new character before everything was scaled...

So do I.
In the mainstory regions, you often outlevelled the rewards... ptoh! But some bossfights were -tough- (remember pre-nerf Doshia? Or Mannimarco in Sancre Tor? The latter still gives me nightmares sometimes...)
And then... you got to veteran regions... and suddenly it was reversed, you never had enough expees to level up your VR in one region, and had to do something else so you could actually use the gear that dropped in the next...

Scaling is better.

But... they -really- ought to sow a wider range of enemy strength! Make different classes of "trash mobs", and boost a lot of the trashy enemies to make fights more fun. Add various special rules, be it specific damage resisstances and vulvnerabilities to some foes, and more HP for enemies all across to make it a little less easy to burn down everything in an eyeblink... maybe even think about bringing back attribute sodftcaps or something... but hey, at least that's what I think I guess...

Mayrael

Lysette wrote: »

eKsDee wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

eKsDee wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

now just imagine how 'fun' questing is for people at max level, with good gear and rotations they (try to) do automatically at this point

You don't even have the time to do a rotation, kek. My magblade, in purple gear with no buffs or anything else up, just crits and the Shadow mundus, could almost kill a mob in a single light attack + Swallow Soul cast. It's insane.

Ikr.
Me, trying out new skill in a rotation: Practise time!*casts one skill and a light attack*
Mob: *promptly dies*
Me: ...oh. *stands there like an idiot with proc'd frags but nothing to cast it on*

I mean, I don't expect to do a 10 min parse on a trash mob of course but like...this makes actually learning so counter intuitive. As a new player who did not think to look up a guide first of all, how would you even stumble upon needing a proper rotation when it's so not needed in open world?

I don't expect to even get through half a rotation on a trash mob, I don't want fights to drag on for that long.

I just want to have to be in combat for more than half a second, I just want to have to use more than one skill (plus a light attack) with optional spamming of said skill (plus light attack).

I just want to have to watch what I'm doing and where I'm going to make sure I don't screw up and potentially kill myself, I just want to have to actively dodge and heal and react to mobs, and ideally for them to react to me (I'm casting a telegraphed, interruptable skill -> mob bashes me -> I get stunned -> mob becomes more aggressive -> I have to break stun and heal to survive).

I want to have to use my damn brain when questing. ESO questing is currently all flavour, with no substance. Story should work hand in hand with and complement the gameplay to actually tell a story. I shouldn't be told "this dude is extremely dangerous, he must die" and almost kill him in just a single light attack + Swallow Soul cast.

Hard to get in a game where ping value differ between 20ms and 480ms - you forget about those with high ping who could never escape red or react to anything in time, because they see all delayed and their actions arrive at the server delayed. it is all easy with a low ping - but quite hard with a high ping.

You can't balance entire game around people who have very bad connection, sorry but when I used to play other MMOs nobody cared about my ping, I had to deal with it best as I could.

Also about gear etc.etc. at one of the PC EU crash times, I've jumped on PC NA. Totally fresh toon, lvl 3 with no gear (just a white random weapon), no skills, no champion points, nothing. Guess what? I could take down whole groups of mobs 4-5 without a lot of sweating. Stronger mobs (those with 120k hp) was like a walk in a park, I was just light attacking while walking around him. I get that I am playing this game for very long and I do some stuff without thinking of it unlike new players, but when single regular mob can't kill me even when I stand still doing nothing, and it takes like 30s for 3 of them to kill totally unprepared character then sorry, I don't buy that "it's hard for new players".

Seri

KarlosCV wrote: »

I've posted the same thread on Reddit and a lot of people said the same thing - level up your character to 50 and then there is challenge. The problem is maxing out your character takes how long, dozens of hours? While jogging around and pressing "1" repeatedly, melting everything? Which is what I was doing to get to level 8 (where I'm currently) - about 7 hours.

The way scaling is implemented is as you out-level your gear, content will start to 'feel' harder and your stats will drop as I'm pretty sure a L10 character in L10 gear is scaled pretty strongly vs a L30 character in L10 gear. Case in point, a low level toon can easily have 20-30k of each resource, but at CP rank, I have 11k health, 8k stam and 30k mag with no food. Broken gear would lower the mag pool there due to gear bonuses.

Unfortunately though, there's only so far that will go - Overworld is not intended to be a real challenge if you're remotely adequately geared (some world bosses + the 'group' events like dragons, dolmens kinda sorta, harrowstorms excluded). As a fully geared character I intentionally run around in 100% broken gear and no food when I'm not doing a dungeon or trial.

On the other hand, once you hit 50, you do get the 'vet' versions of dungeons, trials, and so on.

(and yes, I'd love the ability to have a 'vet' toggle for overworld too where it adds or removes some form of debuff to your character to give an effective 'increase' in mob/boss strength)

Nemesis7884

people always confuse scaling and difficulty - these are independent of one another

Seri

Lysette wrote: »

i am fine with that as long as they don't demand as well better rewards - i just don't believe them if they want better rewards as well.

Why can't the base reward be blue or purple, as opposed to green? *points at vet vs normal dungeons*

Getting a 'Perfected Mother's Sorrow Staff' vs a normal one is crazy though. There's already too many item sets.

Lysette

Seri wrote: »

KarlosCV wrote: »

I've posted the same thread on Reddit and a lot of people said the same thing - level up your character to 50 and then there is challenge. The problem is maxing out your character takes how long, dozens of hours? While jogging around and pressing "1" repeatedly, melting everything? Which is what I was doing to get to level 8 (where I'm currently) - about 7 hours.

Case in point, a low level toon can easily have 20-30k of each resource, but at CP rank, I have 11k health, 8k stam and 30k mag with no food. Broken gear would lower the mag pool there due to gear bonuses.

yeah and here is the problem why i don't want to ever get to level 50 with any of my characters - i have like 23k in each resource and could well push it above 30k in one resource - why would i ever want to get to 50?

Lysette

Seri wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

i am fine with that as long as they don't demand as well better rewards - i just don't believe them if they want better rewards as well.

Why can't the base reward be blue or purple, as opposed to green? *points at vet vs normal dungeons*

Getting a 'Perfected Mother's Sorrow Staff' vs a normal one is crazy though. There's already too many item sets.

because then it is about better and easier farming and not about fighting boredom.

Seri

Lysette wrote: »

Seri wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

i am fine with that as long as they don't demand as well better rewards - i just don't believe them if they want better rewards as well.

Why can't the base reward be blue or purple, as opposed to green? *points at vet vs normal dungeons*

Getting a 'Perfected Mother's Sorrow Staff' vs a normal one is crazy though. There's already too many item sets.

because then it is about better and easier farming and not about fighting boredom.

Easier farming would be flipping it to normal rather than vet, would it not? Trials / Perfected gear excluded, there's a reason everyone farms the normal dungeons when after a certain set piece. Then you get harder vet content with better tier (decon) rewards. It'd be entirely 100% consistent with the rest of the game design. Besides - it's primarily for questing purposes that people want harder overworld - farming and questing don't really go together.

Lysette

Seri wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Seri wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

i am fine with that as long as they don't demand as well better rewards - i just don't believe them if they want better rewards as well.

Why can't the base reward be blue or purple, as opposed to green? *points at vet vs normal dungeons*

Getting a 'Perfected Mother's Sorrow Staff' vs a normal one is crazy though. There's already too many item sets.

because then it is about better and easier farming and not about fighting boredom.

Easier farming would be flipping it to normal rather than vet, would it not? Trials / Perfected gear excluded, there's a reason everyone farms the normal dungeons when after a certain set piece. Then you get harder vet content with better tier (decon) rewards. It'd be entirely 100% consistent with the rest of the game design. Besides - it's primarily for questing purposes that people want harder overworld - farming and questing don't really go together.

i would believe it if you would take the higher difficulty without any better rewards whatsoever - but you just don't want that, so i don't believe these people.

peacenote

KarlosCV wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

eKsDee wrote: »

And here come the "overland difficulty is fine, go run dungeons, go fight mobs naked, go fight mobs unarmed, go take off your CP" replies. OP, if you want even an inkling of actual gameplay to complement your questing, ESO isn't the game for you, and it likely won't ever be, because this community is too attached to overland being a 1-button-spam-fest where nothing even poses even the remotest of challenges.

Not so much that we are attached as we are resigned. I've been here since BETA and I know why ZoS made the decision they did. Sure I would like an option for harder overland battles. I do believe there are more pressing needs however.

And as I said earlier the easy content doesn't take away from the quests. They are well written and interesting for the most part. If that isn't what you like find a grind that suits you and level up for the harder content.

So why did Zenimax do it? It's weird because they went the opposite direction to Bethesda. People complained so much about the ridiculous scaling in Oblivion it became a meme so Bethesda did a great job with a much smarter scaling in Skyrim. Meanwhile Zenimax went even beyond the Oblivion scaling.

As for quests, yeah, they are interesting. Also the lore, I'm reading most of the books I find. So maybe I will get used to the fact that the base content is just a sightseeing simulator. I'll keep playing for at least a few more days.

I hope you stick around; keep exploring and you will find more challenges.

Also ty for posting as I think it is important for ZOS to realize where they might be losing new players. As a vet player, I am OK with overland being easy and relaxing and the instanced content being more difficult, but it should be addressed if it is an issue for the new players for which the scaling is intended.

KarlosCV

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

people always confuse scaling and difficulty - these are independent of one another

Everything always being around your level does not equal some mobs being way, way higher. Of course difficulty and scaling are related.

Btw reading this thread, I really don't understand this mentality "I want to go anywhere on level 1". I've been playing single-player RPGs since the 1990s and I have never heard this argument before.

The whole POINT of playing an RPG is to level up your character so you can progress in the game. That was always the core feature. We've never thought of the difficult areas as "gated" or "railroaded" or whatever the lingo is. They were simply areas you only get to when you get stronger. Everybody accepted the fact that no, you can't go straight to the final boss room from the starting point on level 1. That was normal. Not anymore, apparently.