A new player feedback - ESO is both phenomenal and terrible

Lysette

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

Hmm, what you think about keeping easy difficulty for new players but with a bit longer fights? It's easy to achieve - some buff in health and armor for mobs but with slightly less damage power. In effect they will be alive a bit longer than 1 second but still will be not very harmful.

Just give players a chance to learn a full rotation

those coming from rpg single player have no interest in ever learning a rotation - they are playing for the story content and exploration and monsters are there but not the main content - there are mass amounts of mobs and it would be annoying if fights would be longer - for a normal player coming from rpg with rpg expectations it doesn't take just 2 shots to get an enemiy down - those are already several seconds per foe and if there are 3 or more of them it is long enough as it is already to not get too annoying having to fight them - but then again, I discovered that often just running past them is enough, I don't have to fight them if I can get away far enough - and why am I doing that - because mob density is already much too high.

This said it might feel for me as too high, because I'm playing outside of prime time where those are still alive.

DracoSaggitaExSole

Imagine this...

On the character selection screen you select your "Zone Difficulty" since you are a level 5 and you end up in Stone Falls, you have some white gear and you need some work to defeat enemies you would be advised to select "Beginner"

On the other end of the spectrum you are a CP 810+ and you want to finish up some quests in Stone Falls and you select "Legendary" difficulty as your "Zone Difficulty" and than you have the option to work you but off, and have a blast fighting in the zone and the world bosses, delves, and public dungeon bosses would have a small percent of dropping "Legendary" quality items, But you would have to work hard for it.

Some folks want to explore and immerse in the lore and just run around farming, some folks seek challenge, I get that. And since the game has a scaling mechanic it should be possible to cater for all audiences. And i think it would bring back a lot of players who left because the game was too easy. It would be one of the best MMO out there if you had that option to ramp up the difficulty.

Now imagine a "Legendary" difficulty Northern Elsweyr dragon fight... Now that's the thrill that MMOs need. A godlike world boss that needed a bunch of players and considerable amount of time and skill to defeat. But at the end of the day you would have a sense of accomplishment. And not just a hit and run, pick up the loot and move on world boss dragon fight like how it is now...

eKsDee

Lysette wrote: »

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

Hmm, what you think about keeping easy difficulty for new players but with a bit longer fights? It's easy to achieve - some buff in health and armor for mobs but with slightly less damage power. In effect they will be alive a bit longer than 1 second but still will be not very harmful.

Just give players a chance to learn a full rotation

those coming from rpg single player have no interest in ever learning a rotation - they are playing for the story content and exploration and monsters are there but not the main content - there are mass amounts of mobs and it would be annoying if fights would be longer - for a normal player coming from rpg with rpg expectations it doesn't take just 2 shots to get an enemiy down - those are already several seconds per foe and if there are 3 or more of them it is long enough as it is already to not get too annoying having to fight them - but then again, I discovered that often just running past them is enough, I don't have to fight them if I can get away far enough - and why am I doing that - because mob density is already much too high.

This said it might feel for me as too high, because I'm playing outside of prime time where those are still alive.

Here's the thing. You're not playing a single player RPG. You're playing a themepark MMORPG, with end game content that expects players to be playing a certain way.

I get that you don't like things to be overly punishing, you don't like to be shoehorned into a specific playstyle, but the game shouldn't center itself on you and your playstyle, because the rest of the game, the content that's actually meant to be the end goal of a player playing an MMORPG, simply doesn't support your playstyle.

Overland should be preparing players for what's to come, by introducing them to the mechanics they'll often see in end game content, and having them respond to these mechanics in the proper way, punishing and correcting mistakes that may occur along the way.

If you don't care about end game and only care about the stories in overland, fine, but you're going against the natural grain of a themepark MMORPG, so the onus of dealing with that should be on you, not the game/developer. The game should center itself on the actual target audience, the people who might want to dip their toes in end game, and provide you the option of playing it your own way.

This is why I think universally making mechanics more important across all overland content, having the content be punishing if you fail to follow those mechanics, and having an optional difficulty setting to dictate how punishing the content is, is the best solution. It ensures that the content shapes the player and guides them towards the expected playstyle, while still giving those who don't care about the expected playstyle the opportunity to slow things down and go at their own pace.

You're not the only player playing ESO, there's millions of other people playing. One difficulty is not going to fit everybody, but the difficulty needs to be high enough to teach players how to properly play the game. Otherwise, you end up with the situation we have now, where players are barely dealing 5k DPS in dungeons, despite vets being able to pull 2-3x that with light attacks alone on unbuffed builds.

Rinthetharmo

a review after 1 days play is not a review lol.. try it out b4 start judging

tet666

Blind_Stargazer wrote: »

a review after 1 days play is not a review lol.. try it out b4 start judging

Where does it say it's a review?

Lysette

eKsDee wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

Hmm, what you think about keeping easy difficulty for new players but with a bit longer fights? It's easy to achieve - some buff in health and armor for mobs but with slightly less damage power. In effect they will be alive a bit longer than 1 second but still will be not very harmful.

Just give players a chance to learn a full rotation

those coming from rpg single player have no interest in ever learning a rotation - they are playing for the story content and exploration and monsters are there but not the main content - there are mass amounts of mobs and it would be annoying if fights would be longer - for a normal player coming from rpg with rpg expectations it doesn't take just 2 shots to get an enemiy down - those are already several seconds per foe and if there are 3 or more of them it is long enough as it is already to not get too annoying having to fight them - but then again, I discovered that often just running past them is enough, I don't have to fight them if I can get away far enough - and why am I doing that - because mob density is already much too high.

This said it might feel for me as too high, because I'm playing outside of prime time where those are still alive.

Here's the thing. You're not playing a single player RPG. You're playing a themepark MMORPG, with end game content that expects players to be playing a certain way.

I get that you don't like things to be overly punishing, you don't like to be shoehorned into a specific playstyle, but the game shouldn't center itself on you and your playstyle, because the rest of the game, the content that's actually meant to be the end goal of a player playing an MMORPG, simply doesn't support your playstyle.

Overland should be preparing players for what's to come, by introducing them to the mechanics they'll often see in end game content, and having them respond to these mechanics in the proper way, punishing and correcting mistakes that may occur along the way.

If you don't care about end game and only care about the stories in overland, fine, but you're going against the natural grain of a themepark MMORPG, so the onus of dealing with that should be on you, not the game/developer. The game should center itself on the actual target audience, the people who might want to dip their toes in end game, and provide you the option of playing it your own way.

This is why I think universally making mechanics more important across all overland content, having the content be punishing if you fail to follow those mechanics, and having an optional difficulty setting to dictate how punishing the content is, is the best solution. It ensures that the content shapes the player and guides them towards the expected playstyle, while still giving those who don't care about the expected playstyle the opportunity to slow things down and go at their own pace.

You're not the only player playing ESO, there's millions of other people playing. One difficulty is not going to fit everybody, but the difficulty needs to be high enough to teach players how to properly play the game. Otherwise, you end up with the situation we have now, where players are barely dealing 5k DPS in dungeons, despite vets being able to pull 2-3x that with light attacks alone on unbuffed builds.

This is currently the only elder scrolls around - a series which has been rpg since a quarter decade - ESO is the continuation of it and a lot will see this just as an elder scrolls rpg with optional "playing together" features - that what was requested for many years actually by TES fans - and that is why I play it like an elder scrolls game and not like a typical MMORPG - to me most of the end game stuff and end game in a whole is alien - that is not what I desire nor ever want to get to. If I reach end game then it is end of game for me - I go and play something else -so I avoid ever getting there.

Any attempt to force me into a group because I cannot do normal overland content or making it too hard to enjoy will just drive me away for good. To me this is the last elder scrolls I will be playing - I have no desire to ever support Bethesda Games Studio again.

eKsDee

Lysette wrote: »

eKsDee wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

Hmm, what you think about keeping easy difficulty for new players but with a bit longer fights? It's easy to achieve - some buff in health and armor for mobs but with slightly less damage power. In effect they will be alive a bit longer than 1 second but still will be not very harmful.

Just give players a chance to learn a full rotation

those coming from rpg single player have no interest in ever learning a rotation - they are playing for the story content and exploration and monsters are there but not the main content - there are mass amounts of mobs and it would be annoying if fights would be longer - for a normal player coming from rpg with rpg expectations it doesn't take just 2 shots to get an enemiy down - those are already several seconds per foe and if there are 3 or more of them it is long enough as it is already to not get too annoying having to fight them - but then again, I discovered that often just running past them is enough, I don't have to fight them if I can get away far enough - and why am I doing that - because mob density is already much too high.

This said it might feel for me as too high, because I'm playing outside of prime time where those are still alive.

Here's the thing. You're not playing a single player RPG. You're playing a themepark MMORPG, with end game content that expects players to be playing a certain way.

I get that you don't like things to be overly punishing, you don't like to be shoehorned into a specific playstyle, but the game shouldn't center itself on you and your playstyle, because the rest of the game, the content that's actually meant to be the end goal of a player playing an MMORPG, simply doesn't support your playstyle.

Overland should be preparing players for what's to come, by introducing them to the mechanics they'll often see in end game content, and having them respond to these mechanics in the proper way, punishing and correcting mistakes that may occur along the way.

If you don't care about end game and only care about the stories in overland, fine, but you're going against the natural grain of a themepark MMORPG, so the onus of dealing with that should be on you, not the game/developer. The game should center itself on the actual target audience, the people who might want to dip their toes in end game, and provide you the option of playing it your own way.

This is why I think universally making mechanics more important across all overland content, having the content be punishing if you fail to follow those mechanics, and having an optional difficulty setting to dictate how punishing the content is, is the best solution. It ensures that the content shapes the player and guides them towards the expected playstyle, while still giving those who don't care about the expected playstyle the opportunity to slow things down and go at their own pace.

You're not the only player playing ESO, there's millions of other people playing. One difficulty is not going to fit everybody, but the difficulty needs to be high enough to teach players how to properly play the game. Otherwise, you end up with the situation we have now, where players are barely dealing 5k DPS in dungeons, despite vets being able to pull 2-3x that with light attacks alone on unbuffed builds.

This is currently the only elder scrolls around - a series which has been rpg since a quarter decade - ESO is the continuation of it and a lot will see this just as an elder scrolls rpg with optional "playing together" features - that what was requested for many years actually by TES fans - and that is why I play it like an elder scrolls game and not like a typical MMORPG - to me most of the end game stuff and end game in a whole is alien - that is not what I desire nor ever want to get to. If I reach end game then it is end of game for me - I go and play something else -so I avoid ever getting there.

Just because you say it is, doesn't make it so. Just because Zenimax refers to it as "not your typical MMO", doesn't make it so. It's a themepark MMORPG.

You play through a linear series of quest chains that have superfluous choices and branching that ultimately amount to changed details, with no actual impact on the world.

You gear up through a linear progression of gear, where generally crafted < overland < dungeon < trial is the order, with arena/PvP and outlier sets being exceptions you slot in where it makes sense.

You play through a linear progression of content, where overland < normal dungeons < normal trials = normal arenas < vet dungeons < vet arenas < vet trials is the rough order.

You build characters to fit certain roles you're expected to fill in groups, with some wiggle room in how you go about doing that.

You use skills that are all balanced in relation to each other, to ensure that everybody is as powerful as everybody else (ideally).

Most importantly, you play in a shared world, running the same content as everyone else, where your gameplay directly impacts other player's experiences, and vice versa.

ESO is built as a themepark MMORPG first, Elder Scrolls game second, and has been from the start. Doesn't matter if you don't think of it as such, that's what it is.

ESO should not be designed around those who are playing it as a single player RPG, because it's not a single player RPG. If you want a single player RPG, you're playing the wrong game. Make the changes and choices to deal with that yourself, or move on, should be how it is.

heaven13

Lysette wrote: »

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

Hmm, what you think about keeping easy difficulty for new players but with a bit longer fights? It's easy to achieve - some buff in health and armor for mobs but with slightly less damage power. In effect they will be alive a bit longer than 1 second but still will be not very harmful.

Just give players a chance to learn a full rotation

those coming from rpg single player have no interest in ever learning a rotation - they are playing for the story content and exploration and monsters are there but not the main content - there are mass amounts of mobs and it would be annoying if fights would be longer - for a normal player coming from rpg with rpg expectations it doesn't take just 2 shots to get an enemiy down - those are already several seconds per foe and if there are 3 or more of them it is long enough as it is already to not get too annoying having to fight them - but then again, I discovered that often just running past them is enough, I don't have to fight them if I can get away far enough - and why am I doing that - because mob density is already much too high.

This said it might feel for me as too high, because I'm playing outside of prime time where those are still alive.

I'd encourage you to be considerate to your fellow players. You might be playing this game like a solo RPG, but it's not. Dragging enemies is one of my biggest pet peeves. As I'm fighting one group of things, someone runs by with half the delve/public dungeon chasing them and because I have AoEs down, they aggro to me so I get stuck cleaning up your mess. Or someone has run through before I get there, I don't realize it and assume the enemies are dead and then they run back/reset right where I happen to be so I get aggro immediately. Even though I kill things quickly, it's an annoyance and for those "normal" players you speak of that take several seconds per foe, you've now increased their fight time and their likelihood of dying, all for your own selfish agenda.

Lysette

eKsDee wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

eKsDee wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

Hmm, what you think about keeping easy difficulty for new players but with a bit longer fights? It's easy to achieve - some buff in health and armor for mobs but with slightly less damage power. In effect they will be alive a bit longer than 1 second but still will be not very harmful.

Just give players a chance to learn a full rotation

those coming from rpg single player have no interest in ever learning a rotation - they are playing for the story content and exploration and monsters are there but not the main content - there are mass amounts of mobs and it would be annoying if fights would be longer - for a normal player coming from rpg with rpg expectations it doesn't take just 2 shots to get an enemiy down - those are already several seconds per foe and if there are 3 or more of them it is long enough as it is already to not get too annoying having to fight them - but then again, I discovered that often just running past them is enough, I don't have to fight them if I can get away far enough - and why am I doing that - because mob density is already much too high.

This said it might feel for me as too high, because I'm playing outside of prime time where those are still alive.

Here's the thing. You're not playing a single player RPG. You're playing a themepark MMORPG, with end game content that expects players to be playing a certain way.

I get that you don't like things to be overly punishing, you don't like to be shoehorned into a specific playstyle, but the game shouldn't center itself on you and your playstyle, because the rest of the game, the content that's actually meant to be the end goal of a player playing an MMORPG, simply doesn't support your playstyle.

Overland should be preparing players for what's to come, by introducing them to the mechanics they'll often see in end game content, and having them respond to these mechanics in the proper way, punishing and correcting mistakes that may occur along the way.

If you don't care about end game and only care about the stories in overland, fine, but you're going against the natural grain of a themepark MMORPG, so the onus of dealing with that should be on you, not the game/developer. The game should center itself on the actual target audience, the people who might want to dip their toes in end game, and provide you the option of playing it your own way.

This is why I think universally making mechanics more important across all overland content, having the content be punishing if you fail to follow those mechanics, and having an optional difficulty setting to dictate how punishing the content is, is the best solution. It ensures that the content shapes the player and guides them towards the expected playstyle, while still giving those who don't care about the expected playstyle the opportunity to slow things down and go at their own pace.

You're not the only player playing ESO, there's millions of other people playing. One difficulty is not going to fit everybody, but the difficulty needs to be high enough to teach players how to properly play the game. Otherwise, you end up with the situation we have now, where players are barely dealing 5k DPS in dungeons, despite vets being able to pull 2-3x that with light attacks alone on unbuffed builds.

This is currently the only elder scrolls around - a series which has been rpg since a quarter decade - ESO is the continuation of it and a lot will see this just as an elder scrolls rpg with optional "playing together" features - that what was requested for many years actually by TES fans - and that is why I play it like an elder scrolls game and not like a typical MMORPG - to me most of the end game stuff and end game in a whole is alien - that is not what I desire nor ever want to get to. If I reach end game then it is end of game for me - I go and play something else -so I avoid ever getting there.

Just because you say it is, doesn't make it so. Just because Zenimax refers to it as "not your typical MMO", doesn't make it so. It's a themepark MMORPG.

You play through a linear series of quest chains that have superfluous choices and branching that ultimately amount to changed details, with no actual impact on the world.

You gear up through a linear progression of gear, where generally crafted < overland < dungeon < trial is the order, with arena/PvP and outlier sets being exceptions you slot in where it makes sense.

You play through a linear progression of content, where overland < normal dungeons < normal trials = normal arenas < vet dungeons < vet arenas < vet trials is the rough order.

You build characters to fit certain roles you're expected to fill in groups, with some wiggle room in how you go about doing that.

You use skills that are all balanced in relation to each other, to ensure that everybody is as powerful as everybody else (ideally).

Most importantly, you play in a shared world, running the same content as everyone else, where your gameplay directly impacts other player's experiences, and vice versa.

ESO is built as a themepark MMORPG first, Elder Scrolls game second, and has been from the start. Doesn't matter if you don't think of it as such, that's what it is.

I'm not playing like this at all - I do the advertised "play as you want" variant - and that is proper game play as well.

eKsDee

ESO is also not the continuation of the mainline Elder Scrolls series. ESO is an MMORPG spinoff of the Elder Scrolls series, it's a side product, not a mainline series entry. Work on ESO began as far back as when BGS was working on Oblivion, so it was always planned to be a side product, not a mainline series entry.

Saying ESO is a continuation of the Elder Scrolls series is like saying World of Warcraft is a continuation of the Warcraft series. It's not, they're two completely different games, in two completely different genres.

eKsDee

Lysette wrote: »

eKsDee wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

eKsDee wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

Hmm, what you think about keeping easy difficulty for new players but with a bit longer fights? It's easy to achieve - some buff in health and armor for mobs but with slightly less damage power. In effect they will be alive a bit longer than 1 second but still will be not very harmful.

Just give players a chance to learn a full rotation

those coming from rpg single player have no interest in ever learning a rotation - they are playing for the story content and exploration and monsters are there but not the main content - there are mass amounts of mobs and it would be annoying if fights would be longer - for a normal player coming from rpg with rpg expectations it doesn't take just 2 shots to get an enemiy down - those are already several seconds per foe and if there are 3 or more of them it is long enough as it is already to not get too annoying having to fight them - but then again, I discovered that often just running past them is enough, I don't have to fight them if I can get away far enough - and why am I doing that - because mob density is already much too high.

This said it might feel for me as too high, because I'm playing outside of prime time where those are still alive.

Here's the thing. You're not playing a single player RPG. You're playing a themepark MMORPG, with end game content that expects players to be playing a certain way.

I get that you don't like things to be overly punishing, you don't like to be shoehorned into a specific playstyle, but the game shouldn't center itself on you and your playstyle, because the rest of the game, the content that's actually meant to be the end goal of a player playing an MMORPG, simply doesn't support your playstyle.

Overland should be preparing players for what's to come, by introducing them to the mechanics they'll often see in end game content, and having them respond to these mechanics in the proper way, punishing and correcting mistakes that may occur along the way.

If you don't care about end game and only care about the stories in overland, fine, but you're going against the natural grain of a themepark MMORPG, so the onus of dealing with that should be on you, not the game/developer. The game should center itself on the actual target audience, the people who might want to dip their toes in end game, and provide you the option of playing it your own way.

This is why I think universally making mechanics more important across all overland content, having the content be punishing if you fail to follow those mechanics, and having an optional difficulty setting to dictate how punishing the content is, is the best solution. It ensures that the content shapes the player and guides them towards the expected playstyle, while still giving those who don't care about the expected playstyle the opportunity to slow things down and go at their own pace.

You're not the only player playing ESO, there's millions of other people playing. One difficulty is not going to fit everybody, but the difficulty needs to be high enough to teach players how to properly play the game. Otherwise, you end up with the situation we have now, where players are barely dealing 5k DPS in dungeons, despite vets being able to pull 2-3x that with light attacks alone on unbuffed builds.

This is currently the only elder scrolls around - a series which has been rpg since a quarter decade - ESO is the continuation of it and a lot will see this just as an elder scrolls rpg with optional "playing together" features - that what was requested for many years actually by TES fans - and that is why I play it like an elder scrolls game and not like a typical MMORPG - to me most of the end game stuff and end game in a whole is alien - that is not what I desire nor ever want to get to. If I reach end game then it is end of game for me - I go and play something else -so I avoid ever getting there.

Just because you say it is, doesn't make it so. Just because Zenimax refers to it as "not your typical MMO", doesn't make it so. It's a themepark MMORPG.

You play through a linear series of quest chains that have superfluous choices and branching that ultimately amount to changed details, with no actual impact on the world.

You gear up through a linear progression of gear, where generally crafted < overland < dungeon < trial is the order, with arena/PvP and outlier sets being exceptions you slot in where it makes sense.

You play through a linear progression of content, where overland < normal dungeons < normal trials = normal arenas < vet dungeons < vet arenas < vet trials is the rough order.

You build characters to fit certain roles you're expected to fill in groups, with some wiggle room in how you go about doing that.

You use skills that are all balanced in relation to each other, to ensure that everybody is as powerful as everybody else (ideally).

Most importantly, you play in a shared world, running the same content as everyone else, where your gameplay directly impacts other player's experiences, and vice versa.

ESO is built as a themepark MMORPG first, Elder Scrolls game second, and has been from the start. Doesn't matter if you don't think of it as such, that's what it is.

I'm not playing like this at all - I do the advertised "play as you want" variant - and that is proper game play as well.

Considering the fact that "play how you want" completely falls flat on its face the moment you step foot outside of overland content, no, it's not the proper style of play. Doesn't matter that you yourself don't play like that, other people are, and the rest of the game expects players to play that way, so overland should be updated to also expect that style of play. Why do you think new players struggle so much in even normal dungeons?

Lysette

heaven13 wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

Hmm, what you think about keeping easy difficulty for new players but with a bit longer fights? It's easy to achieve - some buff in health and armor for mobs but with slightly less damage power. In effect they will be alive a bit longer than 1 second but still will be not very harmful.

Just give players a chance to learn a full rotation

those coming from rpg single player have no interest in ever learning a rotation - they are playing for the story content and exploration and monsters are there but not the main content - there are mass amounts of mobs and it would be annoying if fights would be longer - for a normal player coming from rpg with rpg expectations it doesn't take just 2 shots to get an enemiy down - those are already several seconds per foe and if there are 3 or more of them it is long enough as it is already to not get too annoying having to fight them - but then again, I discovered that often just running past them is enough, I don't have to fight them if I can get away far enough - and why am I doing that - because mob density is already much too high.

This said it might feel for me as too high, because I'm playing outside of prime time where those are still alive.

I'd encourage you to be considerate to your fellow players. You might be playing this game like a solo RPG, but it's not. Dragging enemies is one of my biggest pet peeves. As I'm fighting one group of things, someone runs by with half the delve/public dungeon chasing them and because I have AoEs down, they aggro to me so I get stuck cleaning up your mess. Or someone has run through before I get there, I don't realize it and assume the enemies are dead and then they run back/reset right where I happen to be so I get aggro immediately. Even though I kill things quickly, it's an annoyance and for those "normal" players you speak of that take several seconds per foe, you've now increased their fight time and their likelihood of dying, all for your own selfish agenda.

monsters running back to their spawn point don't attack you you cannot even make them attack you before they ran back to their spawn point- I tried it many times - they are not even effected by attacks - they just run back to their spawn points

Lysette

eKsDee wrote: »

ESO is also not the continuation of the mainline Elder Scrolls series. ESO is an MMORPG spinoff of the Elder Scrolls series, it's a side product, not a mainline series entry. Work on ESO began as far back as when BGS was working on Oblivion, so it was always planned to be a side product, not a mainline series entry.

Saying ESO is a continuation of the Elder Scrolls series is like saying World of Warcraft is a continuation of the Warcraft series. It's not, they're two completely different games, in two completely different genres.

ok I leave it at that - my opinion is different - so let's agree to disagree.

Olauron

eKsDee wrote: »

ESO should not be designed around those who are playing it as a single player RPG, because it's not a single player RPG. If you want a single player RPG, you're playing the wrong game. Make the changes and choices to deal with that yourself, or move on, should be how it is.

ESO is played as single player RPG in most important parts - main quest of the game, pivotal points of chapter main quests and guild quests.
The "difficulty needs to be high enough to teach players how to properly play the game" failed miserably with Craglorn and vet zones. People voted with their wallets on "how to properly play the game".

heaven13

Lysette wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

Hmm, what you think about keeping easy difficulty for new players but with a bit longer fights? It's easy to achieve - some buff in health and armor for mobs but with slightly less damage power. In effect they will be alive a bit longer than 1 second but still will be not very harmful.

Just give players a chance to learn a full rotation

those coming from rpg single player have no interest in ever learning a rotation - they are playing for the story content and exploration and monsters are there but not the main content - there are mass amounts of mobs and it would be annoying if fights would be longer - for a normal player coming from rpg with rpg expectations it doesn't take just 2 shots to get an enemiy down - those are already several seconds per foe and if there are 3 or more of them it is long enough as it is already to not get too annoying having to fight them - but then again, I discovered that often just running past them is enough, I don't have to fight them if I can get away far enough - and why am I doing that - because mob density is already much too high.

This said it might feel for me as too high, because I'm playing outside of prime time where those are still alive.

I'd encourage you to be considerate to your fellow players. You might be playing this game like a solo RPG, but it's not. Dragging enemies is one of my biggest pet peeves. As I'm fighting one group of things, someone runs by with half the delve/public dungeon chasing them and because I have AoEs down, they aggro to me so I get stuck cleaning up your mess. Or someone has run through before I get there, I don't realize it and assume the enemies are dead and then they run back/reset right where I happen to be so I get aggro immediately. Even though I kill things quickly, it's an annoyance and for those "normal" players you speak of that take several seconds per foe, you've now increased their fight time and their likelihood of dying, all for your own selfish agenda.

monsters running back to their spawn point don't attack you you cannot even make them attack you before they ran back to their spawn point- I tried it many times - they are not even effected by attacks - they just run back to their spawn points

Did you miss my entire point? "reset right where I happen to be so I get aggro immediately" As I move through the dungeon, they've lost aggro on you and headed back to their spawn points, which happen to be where I am coming through so as SOON as they get back, they start attacking. Until that happens, I don't even know from which spawn location you've pulled all these enemies so I don't know if they're coming TO me or going PAST me. And that doesn't change the first point: if I am ahead of you and you pull monster in, they aggro on me. If my location is not too far ahead, they will not reset and I am now fighting my mobs AND yours.

Bottom line it's rude af and it'd be nice if you'd at least consider the consequences your actions have on other players.

Lysette

eKsDee wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

eKsDee wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

eKsDee wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

Hmm, what you think about keeping easy difficulty for new players but with a bit longer fights? It's easy to achieve - some buff in health and armor for mobs but with slightly less damage power. In effect they will be alive a bit longer than 1 second but still will be not very harmful.

Just give players a chance to learn a full rotation

those coming from rpg single player have no interest in ever learning a rotation - they are playing for the story content and exploration and monsters are there but not the main content - there are mass amounts of mobs and it would be annoying if fights would be longer - for a normal player coming from rpg with rpg expectations it doesn't take just 2 shots to get an enemiy down - those are already several seconds per foe and if there are 3 or more of them it is long enough as it is already to not get too annoying having to fight them - but then again, I discovered that often just running past them is enough, I don't have to fight them if I can get away far enough - and why am I doing that - because mob density is already much too high.

This said it might feel for me as too high, because I'm playing outside of prime time where those are still alive.

Here's the thing. You're not playing a single player RPG. You're playing a themepark MMORPG, with end game content that expects players to be playing a certain way.

I get that you don't like things to be overly punishing, you don't like to be shoehorned into a specific playstyle, but the game shouldn't center itself on you and your playstyle, because the rest of the game, the content that's actually meant to be the end goal of a player playing an MMORPG, simply doesn't support your playstyle.

Overland should be preparing players for what's to come, by introducing them to the mechanics they'll often see in end game content, and having them respond to these mechanics in the proper way, punishing and correcting mistakes that may occur along the way.

If you don't care about end game and only care about the stories in overland, fine, but you're going against the natural grain of a themepark MMORPG, so the onus of dealing with that should be on you, not the game/developer. The game should center itself on the actual target audience, the people who might want to dip their toes in end game, and provide you the option of playing it your own way.

This is why I think universally making mechanics more important across all overland content, having the content be punishing if you fail to follow those mechanics, and having an optional difficulty setting to dictate how punishing the content is, is the best solution. It ensures that the content shapes the player and guides them towards the expected playstyle, while still giving those who don't care about the expected playstyle the opportunity to slow things down and go at their own pace.

You're not the only player playing ESO, there's millions of other people playing. One difficulty is not going to fit everybody, but the difficulty needs to be high enough to teach players how to properly play the game. Otherwise, you end up with the situation we have now, where players are barely dealing 5k DPS in dungeons, despite vets being able to pull 2-3x that with light attacks alone on unbuffed builds.

This is currently the only elder scrolls around - a series which has been rpg since a quarter decade - ESO is the continuation of it and a lot will see this just as an elder scrolls rpg with optional "playing together" features - that what was requested for many years actually by TES fans - and that is why I play it like an elder scrolls game and not like a typical MMORPG - to me most of the end game stuff and end game in a whole is alien - that is not what I desire nor ever want to get to. If I reach end game then it is end of game for me - I go and play something else -so I avoid ever getting there.

Just because you say it is, doesn't make it so. Just because Zenimax refers to it as "not your typical MMO", doesn't make it so. It's a themepark MMORPG.

You play through a linear series of quest chains that have superfluous choices and branching that ultimately amount to changed details, with no actual impact on the world.

You gear up through a linear progression of gear, where generally crafted < overland < dungeon < trial is the order, with arena/PvP and outlier sets being exceptions you slot in where it makes sense.

You play through a linear progression of content, where overland < normal dungeons < normal trials = normal arenas < vet dungeons < vet arenas < vet trials is the rough order.

You build characters to fit certain roles you're expected to fill in groups, with some wiggle room in how you go about doing that.

You use skills that are all balanced in relation to each other, to ensure that everybody is as powerful as everybody else (ideally).

Most importantly, you play in a shared world, running the same content as everyone else, where your gameplay directly impacts other player's experiences, and vice versa.

ESO is built as a themepark MMORPG first, Elder Scrolls game second, and has been from the start. Doesn't matter if you don't think of it as such, that's what it is.

I'm not playing like this at all - I do the advertised "play as you want" variant - and that is proper game play as well.

Considering the fact that "play how you want" completely falls flat on its face the moment you step foot outside of overland content, no, it's not the proper style of play. Doesn't matter that you yourself don't play like that, other people are, and the rest of the game expects players to play that way, so overland should be updated to also expect that style of play. Why do you think new players struggle so much in even normal dungeons?

conversation is over - I won't argue about this anymore - we disagree and there is no common ground to ever agree on the matter -- so just let's leave it at that.

eKsDee

Olauron wrote: »

ESO is played as single player RPG in most important parts - main quest of the game, pivotal points of chapter main quests and guild quests.

Those are played as a single player RPG because they were designed to be, and that's more what I'm pointing out, how that design is a bad idea, because it causes a huge disconnect between overland/questing and the rest of the game.

Case in point, the "play how you want" mantra, and how that causes newer players to barely even meet the bar for acceptable DPS beyond the easiest normal dungeons, because their characters are built completely in the wrong way, and they're barely using their skills.

Olauron wrote: »

The "difficulty needs to be high enough to teach players how to properly play the game" failed miserably with Craglorn and vet zones. People voted with their wallets on "how to properly play the game".

Craglorn failed miserably because it was forcing people to group together to run any content. Vet zones failed miserably because it split the population too much at a time where the game probably didn't even have a tenth of the players it has now, leading to zones being empty. Remember that each zone had 3 primary instances -- main quest, Cadwell's Silver, Cadwell's Gold.

Thechuckage

Olauron wrote: »

eKsDee wrote: »

ESO should not be designed around those who are playing it as a single player RPG, because it's not a single player RPG. If you want a single player RPG, you're playing the wrong game. Make the changes and choices to deal with that yourself, or move on, should be how it is.

ESO is played as single player RPG in most important parts - main quest of the game, pivotal points of chapter main quests and guild quests.
The "difficulty needs to be high enough to teach players how to properly play the game" failed miserably with Craglorn and vet zones. People voted with their wallets on "how to properly play the game".

That is a matter of tuning, or overtuning in the case of old craglorn. There should be more than sufficient data to scale to higher CP players, at least a bit. A single drop of cinder storm shouldn't almost kill a group of mobs. This would also be less of a jarring experience when going into a dungeon because there is a clear disparity on the mob health.

The game does a poor job of teaching and reinforcing the use of mechanics. Take something like icereach where 4 separate bosses need to be interrupted in a set time. Had a group that stared at them while I alone tried to bash all 4. When I explained they needed to be interrupted, one of the dps said "I dont have an interrupt skill" Players arent taught to bash or dodge or move out of fire in overworld and they bring those bad habits to dungeons>trials.

eKsDee

Thechuckage wrote: »

Olauron wrote: »

eKsDee wrote: »

ESO should not be designed around those who are playing it as a single player RPG, because it's not a single player RPG. If you want a single player RPG, you're playing the wrong game. Make the changes and choices to deal with that yourself, or move on, should be how it is.

ESO is played as single player RPG in most important parts - main quest of the game, pivotal points of chapter main quests and guild quests.
The "difficulty needs to be high enough to teach players how to properly play the game" failed miserably with Craglorn and vet zones. People voted with their wallets on "how to properly play the game".

That is a matter of tuning, or overtuning in the case of old craglorn. There should be more than sufficient data to scale to higher CP players, at least a bit. A single drop of cinder storm shouldn't almost kill a group of mobs. This would also be less of a jarring experience when going into a dungeon because there is a clear disparity on the mob health.

The game does a poor job of teaching and reinforcing the use of mechanics. Take something like icereach where 4 separate bosses need to be interrupted in a set time. Had a group that stared at them while I alone tried to bash all 4. When I explained they needed to be interrupted, one of the dps said "I dont have an interrupt skill" Players arent taught to bash or dodge or move out of fire in overworld and they bring those bad habits to dungeons>trials.

Bingo. This is my main criticism of overland as a whole. It's far too forgiving, too hand-holdy, and too supporting of playstyles that would immediately get players killed in the rest of the game. And it goes beyond just basic mob health and damage, more to mechanics and how the leveling experience works.

IMO, the entire leveling experience needs to be redesigned to introduce newer players to things like proper skill usage, proper light/heavy attack usage, proper dodge/block/bash usage, proper character building, crafting, active food and potion usage, etc.

It also should reinforce these things, by having the player constantly be reminded of them whenever they fall back onto bad habits, or start falling behind in gear, both through actual fight mechanics (mobs recognising a player not breaking a stun or moving out of an AoE, and becoming more aggressive until they do) and UI hints.

This is why there's such a huge disconnect, because all information goes in one ear and straight out the other, when next to no overland content actually requires any of this.

Olauron

eKsDee wrote: »

Olauron wrote: »

ESO is played as single player RPG in most important parts - main quest of the game, pivotal points of chapter main quests and guild quests.

Those are played as a single player RPG because they were designed to be, and that's more what I'm pointing out, how that design is a bad idea, because it causes a huge disconnect between overland/questing and the rest of the game.

And "the rest of the game" didn't even exit at launch (outside of optional pvp). Base game dungeons at launch could be done without any rotations with trial and error.

eKsDee wrote: »

Craglorn failed miserably because it was forcing people to group together to run any content. Vet zones failed miserably because it split the population too much at a time where the game probably didn't even have a tenth of the players it has now, leading to zones being empty. Remember that each zone had 3 primary instances -- main quest, Cadwell's Silver, Cadwell's Gold.

They both failed, because players don't need difficulty. Vulken Guard of normal zone was much more crowded than now. Vulken Guard of veteran zones was mostly empty. The difference is just 50 levels, done by many (to complete main quest). These many remained in their normal zones after reaching 50.

Thechuckage wrote: »

Olauron wrote: »

eKsDee wrote: »

ESO should not be designed around those who are playing it as a single player RPG, because it's not a single player RPG. If you want a single player RPG, you're playing the wrong game. Make the changes and choices to deal with that yourself, or move on, should be how it is.

ESO is played as single player RPG in most important parts - main quest of the game, pivotal points of chapter main quests and guild quests.
The "difficulty needs to be high enough to teach players how to properly play the game" failed miserably with Craglorn and vet zones. People voted with their wallets on "how to properly play the game".

That is a matter of tuning, or overtuning in the case of old craglorn. There should be more than sufficient data to scale to higher CP players, at least a bit. A single drop of cinder storm shouldn't almost kill a group of mobs. This would also be less of a jarring experience when going into a dungeon because there is a clear disparity on the mob health.

The game does a poor job of teaching and reinforcing the use of mechanics. Take something like icereach where 4 separate bosses need to be interrupted in a set time. Had a group that stared at them while I alone tried to bash all 4. When I explained they needed to be interrupted, one of the dps said "I dont have an interrupt skill" Players arent taught to bash or dodge or move out of fire in overworld and they bring those bad habits to dungeons>trials.

Just go solo in the public dungeon and you will get experience for normal dungeons. Go into the Sunhold, into the Labyrinthian, into the Karnwasten. I can say that group event in the Nchuthnkarst was really hard for my lone magicka character, because there are so many roll-dodge or break-free actions.

At the same time mechanics was used for story dragons at the end of all elsweyrs. It was awful.

And, again, try killing gryphon in King's Haven Pass or senche in Desert Wind Caverns without bashing, blocking and dodging. You will find yourself dead very fast (especially with 10 - 11 k health).

Mortiis13

Since mmos are mainstream and a money machine mmorpgs getting casual beside a small percent of content.

Any one remember the old days?
Their CC, interrupt, focustarget and aggro Management was a thing even in the first group dungeon.
You also had to communicate with strangers to defeat a trash group of 5 epicmobs.

Finally defeated the last boss of a dungeon where u wiped 100 times cause their wasn't any guide available.

That was so frustrating but also so rewarding when u finally "killed it"

Also what I wanted to know, why are their no other regions like craglorn? It's not hard with geared up toons but way better then the rest of overland.

ZOS_Volpe

Greetings,

As this thread has continued to derailed with baiting and insulting commentary, we've decided to close it down. For further posts be sure to stay constructive and respectful to avoid thread derailment. To review our Community Rules, you may find them here.