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A new player feedback - ESO is both phenomenal and terrible
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Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
It's possible that it's not a binary thing, when it comes to difficulty. @tet666 might only want the challenge, while someone like me actually want to feel like my character is getting stronger, like you suggested @Lysette .
I like going into an area and complely clear it before moving on to the next. If I'm in Reapers March doing quests, why would I all of a sudden want to go visit Glenumbra? The tiny bit of immersion ESO has gets completely ruined (at least for me) if I all of a sudden drop what ever's happening (in Reapers March) only to start investing time into a new story (in Glenumbra).
Sorry if I missed it, but why would having better rewards for a higher difficulty be an issue?
be so kind and just look it up in this thread - you want to know it, then put in the effort - you know, higher difficulty - reading.3 -
maboleth✭✭✭✭✭
✭Scaling to your own level is great and in spirit with other TES games.
Just as you point out that 'everything is scaled to your level', notice that during the times before One Tamriel we had many zones with utter-trash mobs having low levels that just didn't provide ANY challenge. Only the later zones, as you progressed in the game, had somewhat more difficult enemies. Also if you missed the quest(s) in starter zones, you had to face low-level enemies, etc. It was so pointless and linear-based that they literally forced you to follow the path of enemy strength, rather than 'go anywhere'. World bosses were trivially easy to complete too.
In a nutshell - no scaling was very BAD, quest wise, challenge wise and had many shortcomings.
However, they could make a slider in the settings that could offer +/- of enemy lev. scaling. If you find the content easy, raise the bar a bit and vice versa. Or they could go offer a fixed 'novice' to 'legendary' difficulty like in Skyrim.0 -
Thoragaal✭✭✭✭✭
It's possible that it's not a binary thing, when it comes to difficulty. @tet666 might only want the challenge, while someone like me actually want to feel like my character is getting stronger, like you suggested @Lysette .
I like going into an area and complely clear it before moving on to the next. If I'm in Reapers March doing quests, why would I all of a sudden want to go visit Glenumbra? The tiny bit of immersion ESO has gets completely ruined (at least for me) if I all of a sudden drop what ever's happening (in Reapers March) only to start investing time into a new story (in Glenumbra).
Sorry if I missed it, but why would having better rewards for a higher difficulty be an issue?
be so kind and just look it up in this thread - you want to know it, then put in the effort - you know, higher difficulty - reading.
I was hoping you could give the answer instead of me having to read through everything you've written here.
Either way, after reading every post in this thread from you, I don't see you giving a reason to why getting better rewards for a higher difficulty would be an issue. I genuinely want to know your take on it.The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
"I've always wanted to kick a duck up the arse" -Karl Pilkington, on the question what he'd do if it was the last day on earth.3 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
It's possible that it's not a binary thing, when it comes to difficulty. @tet666 might only want the challenge, while someone like me actually want to feel like my character is getting stronger, like you suggested @Lysette .
I like going into an area and complely clear it before moving on to the next. If I'm in Reapers March doing quests, why would I all of a sudden want to go visit Glenumbra? The tiny bit of immersion ESO has gets completely ruined (at least for me) if I all of a sudden drop what ever's happening (in Reapers March) only to start investing time into a new story (in Glenumbra).
Sorry if I missed it, but why would having better rewards for a higher difficulty be an issue?
be so kind and just look it up in this thread - you want to know it, then put in the effort - you know, higher difficulty - reading.
I was hoping you could give the answer instead of me having to read through everything you've written here.
Either way, after reading every post in this thread from you, I don't see you giving a reason to why getting better rewards for a higher difficulty would be an issue. I genuinely want to know your take on it.
it goes with the request of instanced zones with it - zones which won't be crowed but have all the farming nodes and make easier and more efficient farming possible. And as far as drops go - why have them purple or gold even, are you guys so poor? seriously if someone needs an upgrade those are low level players not veterans who run around in their golded gear claiming everything to be too easy. if it is really just about the challenge, you don't need better rewards and certainly no own instances. Insisting on that is just dishonest about your real intentions.2 -
Blackwolfe5✭✭✭I must suck then, my stamwarden and stamblade have died plenty even to trash mobs if being careless. If I had spammed a single attack over and over I'd rarely get anywhere. But sure, things are easier now at cp 225 but yeah, I should definitely get better gear etc.Edited by Blackwolfe5 on June 10, 2020 12:01PM2 -
seipher09✭✭✭✭You think it's easy now??
Imagine having your champion points and gold armor sets. You look at things and they basically die lol.
We used to actually have to fight battles when we had the old cadwell silver and gold and I found it much more fun to have a challenge..
Sure there are dungeons but once I do them for the story no need to return as 90% of the game is overland.6 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You think it's easy now??
Imagine having your champion points and gold armor sets. You look at things and they basically die lol.
We used to actually have to fight battles when we had the old cadwell silver and gold and I found it much more fun to have a challenge..
Sure there are dungeons but once I do them for the story no need to return as 90% of the game is overland.
you basically played the game in the wrong order or eventually ZOS should not have allowed level 10 players to start with pvp, because this leads to them power grinding their way up and then overland gets pointless because it is made for slow progression doing story content. So eventually this decision from ZOS has to be blamed - pvp access starting at level 10.Edited by Lysette on June 10, 2020 12:09PM1 -
shaielzafine✭✭✭✭✭oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »Do some DLC/vet dungeons, vet trials and arenas, and jump into PvP and then come back and tell us how easy this game is.
Let's be real the only actual hard part of the game is fighting lag, desyncs & performance. I've played PvP for years, grinded AP to get Empress title, joined multiple PvP guilds, and I can say the loading screens, lag & slideshow frames are harder to fight than the players spamming abilities making it laggy. I also have almost all trials skins available in the game (everything except Kyne's Aegis), we reset fights in trials more because it was laggy or someone disconnected / got kicked again or something like rez bug happened again or the boss wouldn't get taunted, etc. Progression groups would be so much faster if abilities all went off properly and if things weren't janky. Same problem I had in vMA, dying to nonsense bugs like in final stage or during ice stage ice floes and the walls disappeared due to rendering bug. There was a time when you couldn't even go into vMA without it crashing, at least that got patched. Is it really a learn to play problem if the game performance is so bad your abilities won't go off or half the raid is getting logged out again in Cyrodiil?
OP has a point for overland content especially. My level 10 friend only does slightly less damage to the mobs' health and the player has more health bonus added for themselves thanks to scaling. There is CPs for horizontal progression (ex. at max CP I can now solo dungeons much easier) but the fight is always scaled so there's not really much point. They keep trying to nerf and unnerf our item sets & class abilities as a form of progression, I guess. But is it really progression to switch gear sets and re-farm items that you know will be nerfed again when they feel like it? And if you're max CP already what sort of progression is there for you? There's no more horizontal progression after cp 810.Edited by shaielzafine on June 10, 2020 1:04PM3 -
Seri✭✭✭✭
It's possible that it's not a binary thing, when it comes to difficulty. tet666 might only want the challenge, while someone like me actually want to feel like my character is getting stronger, like you suggested Lysette .
I like going into an area and complely clear it before moving on to the next. If I'm in Reapers March doing quests, why would I all of a sudden want to go visit Glenumbra? The tiny bit of immersion ESO has gets completely ruined (at least for me) if I all of a sudden drop what ever's happening (in Reapers March) only to start investing time into a new story (in Glenumbra).
Sorry if I missed it, but why would having better rewards for a higher difficulty be an issue?
be so kind and just look it up in this thread - you want to know it, then put in the effort - you know, higher difficulty - reading.
I was hoping you could give the answer instead of me having to read through everything you've written here.
That'd be too easy. You're expected to put the effort in...
... and since you didn't actually get a satisfying conclusion for putting in the effort, apparently that's a good thing.Either way, after reading every post in this thread from you, I don't see you giving a reason to why getting better rewards for a higher difficulty would be an issue
It's possible that it's not a binary thing, when it comes to difficulty. tet666 might only want the challenge, while someone like me actually want to feel like my character is getting stronger, like you suggested Lysette .
I like going into an area and complely clear it before moving on to the next. If I'm in Reapers March doing quests, why would I all of a sudden want to go visit Glenumbra? The tiny bit of immersion ESO has gets completely ruined (at least for me) if I all of a sudden drop what ever's happening (in Reapers March) only to start investing time into a new story (in Glenumbra).
Sorry if I missed it, but why would having better rewards for a higher difficulty be an issue?
be so kind and just look it up in this thread - you want to know it, then put in the effort - you know, higher difficulty - reading.
I was hoping you could give the answer instead of me having to read through everything you've written here.
Either way, after reading every post in this thread from you, I don't see you giving a reason to why getting better rewards for a higher difficulty would be an issue. I genuinely want to know your take on it.
it goes with the request of instanced zones with it - zones which won't be crowed but have all the farming nodes and make easier and more efficient farming possible. And as far as drops go - why have them purple or gold even, are you guys so poor? seriously if someone needs an upgrade those are low level players not veterans who run around in their golded gear claiming everything to be too easy. if it is really just about the challenge, you don't need better rewards and certainly no own instances. Insisting on that is just dishonest about your real intentions.
A lot of posts here do not want the overworld zones additionally instanced. The people asking for a harder content want a self-debuff applied (ala Battle Spirit). The alternative proposed would be the 'vet' instances for the case where there's a small cave or house or area where the final boss is often located. These areas don't have resource nodes to farm.
No-one here wants purple or gold gear dropping either. Purple and (especially) gold from overworld is obscene. There's no precedent for that and I can't believe ZOS would ever implement it. The most I could see is blue instead of green. A green to blue difference for normal vs 'vet' overworld matches the blue to purple difference for normal vs vet dungeons, and with embroidery selling for 15g/ea, I can't see someone getting rich off it. The main reason personally I've mentioned reward differences is because I can't see ZOS implementing the higher level with no reward difference - not because I want it myself. On topic of rewards though, can I assume you've been vocal in asking ZOS to remove higher tier rewards in vet dungeons and trials?
Although truth be told, that would be good for the economy - the wax and alloy prices have been getting out of hand. I'm beginning to wonder if your concerns are because you're afraid mat prices would drop due to higher supply...EP CP160+ Templar, Sorc, NB
DC CP160+ Templar, Sorc, DK5 -
Miswar✭✭✭✭✭The original poster is correct. The overland content is a joke and you can pretty much one button wonder through it.
Yes, there are couple of trials and dungeons that are more competetive but that is not much.
In the end if you got friends playng this products the most you get out of is chatting with them. As for the the content wise its 95& aimed to brain dead zombies without any challenge whatsoever.
My advise is that skip this game unless you got friends already playing it. Everyone with their opinion ofc.
Oh.. and the performance has been bad for ages now so take that into consideration as well when decieding.6 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
It's possible that it's not a binary thing, when it comes to difficulty. tet666 might only want the challenge, while someone like me actually want to feel like my character is getting stronger, like you suggested Lysette .
I like going into an area and complely clear it before moving on to the next. If I'm in Reapers March doing quests, why would I all of a sudden want to go visit Glenumbra? The tiny bit of immersion ESO has gets completely ruined (at least for me) if I all of a sudden drop what ever's happening (in Reapers March) only to start investing time into a new story (in Glenumbra).
Sorry if I missed it, but why would having better rewards for a higher difficulty be an issue?
be so kind and just look it up in this thread - you want to know it, then put in the effort - you know, higher difficulty - reading.
I was hoping you could give the answer instead of me having to read through everything you've written here.
That'd be too easy. You're expected to put the effort in...
... and since you didn't actually get a satisfying conclusion for putting in the effort, apparently that's a good thing.Either way, after reading every post in this thread from you, I don't see you giving a reason to why getting better rewards for a higher difficulty would be an issue
It's possible that it's not a binary thing, when it comes to difficulty. tet666 might only want the challenge, while someone like me actually want to feel like my character is getting stronger, like you suggested Lysette .
I like going into an area and complely clear it before moving on to the next. If I'm in Reapers March doing quests, why would I all of a sudden want to go visit Glenumbra? The tiny bit of immersion ESO has gets completely ruined (at least for me) if I all of a sudden drop what ever's happening (in Reapers March) only to start investing time into a new story (in Glenumbra).
Sorry if I missed it, but why would having better rewards for a higher difficulty be an issue?
be so kind and just look it up in this thread - you want to know it, then put in the effort - you know, higher difficulty - reading.
I was hoping you could give the answer instead of me having to read through everything you've written here.
Either way, after reading every post in this thread from you, I don't see you giving a reason to why getting better rewards for a higher difficulty would be an issue. I genuinely want to know your take on it.
it goes with the request of instanced zones with it - zones which won't be crowed but have all the farming nodes and make easier and more efficient farming possible. And as far as drops go - why have them purple or gold even, are you guys so poor? seriously if someone needs an upgrade those are low level players not veterans who run around in their golded gear claiming everything to be too easy. if it is really just about the challenge, you don't need better rewards and certainly no own instances. Insisting on that is just dishonest about your real intentions.
A lot of posts here do not want the overworld zones additionally instanced. The people asking for a harder content want a self-debuff applied (ala Battle Spirit). The alternative proposed would be the 'vet' instances for the case where there's a small cave or house or area where the final boss is often located. These areas don't have resource nodes to farm.
No-one here wants purple or gold gear dropping either. Purple and (especially) gold from overworld is obscene. There's no precedent for that and I can't believe ZOS would ever implement it. The most I could see is blue instead of green. A green to blue difference for normal vs 'vet' overworld matches the blue to purple difference for normal vs vet dungeons, and with embroidery selling for 15g/ea, I can't see someone getting rich off it. The main reason personally I've mentioned reward differences is because I can't see ZOS implementing the higher level with no reward difference - not because I want it myself. On topic of rewards though, can I assume you've been vocal in asking ZOS to remove higher tier rewards in vet dungeons and trials?
Although truth be told, that would be good for the economy - the wax and alloy prices have been getting out of hand. I'm beginning to wonder if your concerns are because you're afraid mat prices would drop due to higher supply...
i have never sold anything in a guild store. so I'm somewhat outside the economy and price drops would just benefit me.
As far as purple drops go - I read people saying they would expect blue or even purple drops instead of green - so this is an argument put forward as well as instancing to not be bothered by newbies which could kill their targets quickly. So I'm not saying this out of the blue, but because some people have put these demands forward already.
Well, you might be right that it might be easier for ZOS to implement it with better rewards - in this case I wouldn't be against it. Bur I guess if it would be implemented then more in the form of a voluntary debuff of some kind with no changes necessary in regards to rewards. It could be as simple as a food item providing this debuff for 2 hours for example.Edited by Lysette on June 10, 2020 2:03PM0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm an ESO noobie, jumped into the game yesterday. It's also my first MMORPG ever, although I've been playing single-player RPGs for 20 years.
First the positives - as a MMORPG noob I was utterly astonished by the size of the world and the amount of things you can do in this game. I did NOT expect anything close to that, and I have just the base game + Morrowind. No DLCs, no other expansions. I can now understand how people can spend years in this game and still have something to do. I also didn't expect how much the social aspect will appeal to me. Running through a dungeon with a group of people can be p. exhilarating. It's a very different experience from something like Skyrim or Witcher but definitely just as great.
And now for why I stopped playing just after a day. After a few hours of running around the world and having an absolute blast of my life I started noticing something suspicious - now matter where I go and what I fight I'm always doing about the same amount of damage. It took me a few hours to realize this but when I was fighting just some random punks or small monsters it made sense.
But then I stumbled into a group fight with some giant and again, I was doing a lot of damage, while taking barely any. And then I ran into a group of cultist in the forest who summoned a huge lich. And I just melted all of them, solo, just as easily as all the other monsters before.
I thought "wait a minute, how bad is the scaling in this game". So I googled a bit and oh boy...I learned the entire game is scaled exactly to your level, everywhere and all the time. And not only that - most people seem to be loving it!
But....why? The moment I learned there's not a single challenge anywhere in the world, that every single enemy everywhere will always be a "trash mob", my motivation to play this game dropped to zero. What's the point of levelling, of learning all that dizzying array of tools like crafting or alchemy if you never need any of it? With my magical templar all I ever did was to repeatedly press the "1" key to poke monsters with my piercing spear ability, simply because you never ever need to do anything else. In my 7 hours in the game I've never died, I've never even dropped below 50% of my HP. And I've soloed almost all the content too. Running around with a group was even more trivial.
How are people ok with this? I don't mean to bash or criticize anyone for liking a certain style of a game, I'm just curious - what is your drive to play this game? In all the dozens of RPGs I've ever played the point was to struggle and master all the skills and tools the game was offering in order to be able to take on harder and harder enemies. What's the main drive in ESO - just to travel around the world, sightseeing and absorb the lore? Don't get me wrong, the world is jaw droppingly phenomenal and the lore is absolutely amazing but is that really enough for you? You don't require any challenge in your RPG?
Sorry for the wall of text but this game gave me such mixed feelings I had to get it off my chest. It's also meant to be a feedback for the devs so they can see there's at least some proportion - admittedly a minority one - of TES fans who prefer challenge to "go anywhere on level 1".
Scaling isn't the problem.
If you think the landscape is easy now - you should have seen it before One Tamriel when you would out-level the whole zone after a couple of quests. Enemies quickly became even easier than they are now and wouldn't even drop loot because they were levels beneath you. So at least now you can actually quest and fight without having to constantly worry about trivializing the content. Go play an MMORPG like Black Desert if you want to know what happens to a MMO when there is no scaling. 90% of the game (maybe even more) becomes trivial and super easy to the point it's tedious in a matter of days (maybe even hours). Honestly scaling should be a mandatory feature of any competent MMORPG.
So I would say One Tamriel was probably the single best change they ever made to this game. That being said - they definitely need to incorporate Veteran Zones (like they do with dungeons) that scale to a higher difficulty (the current CP Max would be nice). That way players looking for more challenge could get one. Because I'm in total agreement with you that the landscape content currently is too easy for experienced players. But we disagree on the cause or the way to solve the problem.
Also: leveling up, improving your gear, and getting new skills still has a dramatic effect on the power of your character. So scaling does not prevent character growth.Edited by Jeremy on June 10, 2020 2:05PM1 -
Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
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It's possible that it's not a binary thing, when it comes to difficulty. tet666 might only want the challenge, while someone like me actually want to feel like my character is getting stronger, like you suggested Lysette .
I like going into an area and complely clear it before moving on to the next. If I'm in Reapers March doing quests, why would I all of a sudden want to go visit Glenumbra? The tiny bit of immersion ESO has gets completely ruined (at least for me) if I all of a sudden drop what ever's happening (in Reapers March) only to start investing time into a new story (in Glenumbra).
Sorry if I missed it, but why would having better rewards for a higher difficulty be an issue?
be so kind and just look it up in this thread - you want to know it, then put in the effort - you know, higher difficulty - reading.
I was hoping you could give the answer instead of me having to read through everything you've written here.
That'd be too easy. You're expected to put the effort in...
... and since you didn't actually get a satisfying conclusion for putting in the effort, apparently that's a good thing.Either way, after reading every post in this thread from you, I don't see you giving a reason to why getting better rewards for a higher difficulty would be an issue
It's possible that it's not a binary thing, when it comes to difficulty. tet666 might only want the challenge, while someone like me actually want to feel like my character is getting stronger, like you suggested Lysette .
I like going into an area and complely clear it before moving on to the next. If I'm in Reapers March doing quests, why would I all of a sudden want to go visit Glenumbra? The tiny bit of immersion ESO has gets completely ruined (at least for me) if I all of a sudden drop what ever's happening (in Reapers March) only to start investing time into a new story (in Glenumbra).
Sorry if I missed it, but why would having better rewards for a higher difficulty be an issue?
be so kind and just look it up in this thread - you want to know it, then put in the effort - you know, higher difficulty - reading.
I was hoping you could give the answer instead of me having to read through everything you've written here.
Either way, after reading every post in this thread from you, I don't see you giving a reason to why getting better rewards for a higher difficulty would be an issue. I genuinely want to know your take on it.
it goes with the request of instanced zones with it - zones which won't be crowed but have all the farming nodes and make easier and more efficient farming possible. And as far as drops go - why have them purple or gold even, are you guys so poor? seriously if someone needs an upgrade those are low level players not veterans who run around in their golded gear claiming everything to be too easy. if it is really just about the challenge, you don't need better rewards and certainly no own instances. Insisting on that is just dishonest about your real intentions.
A lot of posts here do not want the overworld zones additionally instanced. The people asking for a harder content want a self-debuff applied (ala Battle Spirit). The alternative proposed would be the 'vet' instances for the case where there's a small cave or house or area where the final boss is often located. These areas don't have resource nodes to farm.
No-one here wants purple or gold gear dropping either. Purple and (especially) gold from overworld is obscene. There's no precedent for that and I can't believe ZOS would ever implement it. The most I could see is blue instead of green. A green to blue difference for normal vs 'vet' overworld matches the blue to purple difference for normal vs vet dungeons, and with embroidery selling for 15g/ea, I can't see someone getting rich off it. The main reason personally I've mentioned reward differences is because I can't see ZOS implementing the higher level with no reward difference - not because I want it myself. On topic of rewards though, can I assume you've been vocal in asking ZOS to remove higher tier rewards in vet dungeons and trials?
Although truth be told, that would be good for the economy - the wax and alloy prices have been getting out of hand. I'm beginning to wonder if your concerns are because you're afraid mat prices would drop due to higher supply...
i have never sold anything in a guild store. so I'm somewhat outside the economy and price drops would just benefit me.
As far as purple drops go - I read people saying they would expect blue or even purple drops instead of green - so this is an argument put forward as well as instancing to not be bothered by newbies which could kill their targets quickly. So I'm not saying this out of the blue, but because some people have put these demands forward already.
Well this is interesting...
You are in fact saying this (along with many other things) out of the blue. You still haven't provided one coherent reason as for why higher rewards for more difficult content would be a bad thing beyond them somehow being 'dishonest' (?). You're also stubbornly refusing to answer as for how this works with current game setup where more difficult content, such as vet dungeons and trials, does in fact consistently provide better rewards.
Your whole argument seems to be 'I feel it's not fair if someone gets better stuff than I do just because'. There's no real arguing with this one, I suppose.6 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
It's possible that it's not a binary thing, when it comes to difficulty. tet666 might only want the challenge, while someone like me actually want to feel like my character is getting stronger, like you suggested Lysette .
I like going into an area and complely clear it before moving on to the next. If I'm in Reapers March doing quests, why would I all of a sudden want to go visit Glenumbra? The tiny bit of immersion ESO has gets completely ruined (at least for me) if I all of a sudden drop what ever's happening (in Reapers March) only to start investing time into a new story (in Glenumbra).
Sorry if I missed it, but why would having better rewards for a higher difficulty be an issue?
be so kind and just look it up in this thread - you want to know it, then put in the effort - you know, higher difficulty - reading.
I was hoping you could give the answer instead of me having to read through everything you've written here.
That'd be too easy. You're expected to put the effort in...
... and since you didn't actually get a satisfying conclusion for putting in the effort, apparently that's a good thing.Either way, after reading every post in this thread from you, I don't see you giving a reason to why getting better rewards for a higher difficulty would be an issue
It's possible that it's not a binary thing, when it comes to difficulty. tet666 might only want the challenge, while someone like me actually want to feel like my character is getting stronger, like you suggested Lysette .
I like going into an area and complely clear it before moving on to the next. If I'm in Reapers March doing quests, why would I all of a sudden want to go visit Glenumbra? The tiny bit of immersion ESO has gets completely ruined (at least for me) if I all of a sudden drop what ever's happening (in Reapers March) only to start investing time into a new story (in Glenumbra).
Sorry if I missed it, but why would having better rewards for a higher difficulty be an issue?
be so kind and just look it up in this thread - you want to know it, then put in the effort - you know, higher difficulty - reading.
I was hoping you could give the answer instead of me having to read through everything you've written here.
Either way, after reading every post in this thread from you, I don't see you giving a reason to why getting better rewards for a higher difficulty would be an issue. I genuinely want to know your take on it.
it goes with the request of instanced zones with it - zones which won't be crowed but have all the farming nodes and make easier and more efficient farming possible. And as far as drops go - why have them purple or gold even, are you guys so poor? seriously if someone needs an upgrade those are low level players not veterans who run around in their golded gear claiming everything to be too easy. if it is really just about the challenge, you don't need better rewards and certainly no own instances. Insisting on that is just dishonest about your real intentions.
A lot of posts here do not want the overworld zones additionally instanced. The people asking for a harder content want a self-debuff applied (ala Battle Spirit). The alternative proposed would be the 'vet' instances for the case where there's a small cave or house or area where the final boss is often located. These areas don't have resource nodes to farm.
No-one here wants purple or gold gear dropping either. Purple and (especially) gold from overworld is obscene. There's no precedent for that and I can't believe ZOS would ever implement it. The most I could see is blue instead of green. A green to blue difference for normal vs 'vet' overworld matches the blue to purple difference for normal vs vet dungeons, and with embroidery selling for 15g/ea, I can't see someone getting rich off it. The main reason personally I've mentioned reward differences is because I can't see ZOS implementing the higher level with no reward difference - not because I want it myself. On topic of rewards though, can I assume you've been vocal in asking ZOS to remove higher tier rewards in vet dungeons and trials?
Although truth be told, that would be good for the economy - the wax and alloy prices have been getting out of hand. I'm beginning to wonder if your concerns are because you're afraid mat prices would drop due to higher supply...
i have never sold anything in a guild store. so I'm somewhat outside the economy and price drops would just benefit me.
As far as purple drops go - I read people saying they would expect blue or even purple drops instead of green - so this is an argument put forward as well as instancing to not be bothered by newbies which could kill their targets quickly. So I'm not saying this out of the blue, but because some people have put these demands forward already.
Well this is interesting...
You are in fact saying this (along with many other things) out of the blue. You still haven't provided one coherent reason as for why higher rewards for more difficult content would be a bad thing beyond them somehow being 'dishonest' (?). You're also stubbornly refusing to answer as for how this works with current game setup where more difficult content, such as vet dungeons and trials, does in fact consistently provide better rewards.
Your whole argument seems to be 'I feel it's not fair if someone gets better stuff than I do just because'. There's no real arguing with this one, I suppose.
I just gave a pretty simple solution to it - when it is just about more challenge - easy to implement with no necessary changes to the rewards at all - a food item which provides a debuff for 2 hours - problem solved -some different food items with different debuff for anyone to choose from - no need to change anything else - would you take that?
This discussion is not about vet dungeons or trials - so I do not comment on that - I want overland to stay as it is and if you want more challenge then take the debuff food and good - all else is just dishonest about the real purpose of your proposal.Edited by Lysette on June 10, 2020 2:14PM0 -
Alomar✭✭✭✭✭Overland pve in ESO has been nothing but a drunk faceroll easymode and that's without cp for years. It takes the immersion and enjoyment out of regular pve activities entirely for most mmo players. Here's the thing, this game is no longer designed for mmo players. It's made for rp'ers and first mmo casual pve players who constantly spend in the cash shop and on loot crates. This is the milking of Elder Scrolls until ES 6 in effect.Haxus Council Member
Former Havoc Commander
Former DiE officer
Alomar: 5 Stars - Beast: 3 stars - Kurudin: 5th NA emperor
Awaiting New World, Camelot Unchained, and Crowfall4 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Overland pve in ESO has been nothing but a drunk faceroll easymode and that's without cp for years. It takes the immersion and enjoyment out of regular pve activities entirely for most mmo players. Here's the thing, this game is no longer designed for mmo players. It's made for rp'ers and first mmo casual pve players who constantly spend in the cash shop and on loot crates. This is the milking of Elder Scrolls until ES 6 in effect.
basically this yes - and that is good this way, it should have been from the very start like this. I'm against gambling crates though.Edited by Lysette on June 10, 2020 2:24PM1 -
Seri✭✭✭✭As far as purple drops go - I read people saying they would expect blue or even purple drops instead of green - so this is an argument put forward as well as instancing to not be bothered by newbies which could kill their targets quickly. So I'm not saying this out of the blue, but because some people have put these demands forward already.
Well, you might be right that it might be easier for ZOS to implement it with better rewards - in this case I wouldn't be against it. Bur I guess if it would be implemented then more in the form of a voluntary debuff of some kind with no changes necessary in regards to rewards. It could be as simple as a food item providing this debuff for 2 hours for example.
We're primarily talking here, in this thread. You're responding to people such as Magdalina, eKsDee and myself, telling us we can't get harder quest bosses in any form (even when we're offering self debuffs or final-boss-little-cave scaling only) because someone in some other thread wanted different instances.
And then for the drops, there was zero mention from us about purple or gold but you mentioned you didn't want gold items to drop as if it was our idea? Quite a few of us would be happy for quest bosses not to give us higher-tier decon fodder, but the main reason I keep bringing it up is because I can't see ZOS happy to not provide some form of higher tier reward. It would depend a bit on final implementation though - self debuff would likely be a no reward change, vs if the final cave was a 'vet' instance as opposed to 'normal', then a blue tier item would be easier offered - otherwise there's no easy way to keep track of whether the quest was done with or without the added difficulty.
As for a food item debuff, my only issue there is it would clash with whatever food/drink we'd happen to be running. If it was some other debuff (scroll perhaps?) that doesn't override existing food, then sure, bring it on. As long as they don't clash, I could actually see some teams trying vet dungeons with that same debuff active.EP CP160+ Templar, Sorc, NB
DC CP160+ Templar, Sorc, DK3 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭As far as purple drops go - I read people saying they would expect blue or even purple drops instead of green - so this is an argument put forward as well as instancing to not be bothered by newbies which could kill their targets quickly. So I'm not saying this out of the blue, but because some people have put these demands forward already.
Well, you might be right that it might be easier for ZOS to implement it with better rewards - in this case I wouldn't be against it. Bur I guess if it would be implemented then more in the form of a voluntary debuff of some kind with no changes necessary in regards to rewards. It could be as simple as a food item providing this debuff for 2 hours for example.
We're primarily talking here, in this thread. You're responding to people such as Magdalina, eKsDee and myself, telling us we can't get harder quest bosses in any form (even when we're offering self debuffs or final-boss-little-cave scaling only) because someone in some other thread wanted different instances.
And then for the drops, there was zero mention from us about purple or gold but you mentioned you didn't want gold items to drop as if it was our idea? Quite a few of us would be happy for quest bosses not to give us higher-tier decon fodder, but the main reason I keep bringing it up is because I can't see ZOS happy to not provide some form of higher tier reward. It would depend a bit on final implementation though - self debuff would likely be a no reward change, vs if the final cave was a 'vet' instance as opposed to 'normal', then a blue tier item would be easier offered - otherwise there's no easy way to keep track of whether the quest was done with or without the added difficulty.
As for a food item debuff, my only issue there is it would clash with whatever food/drink we'd happen to be running. If it was some other debuff (scroll perhaps?) that doesn't override existing food, then sure, bring it on. As long as they don't clash, I could actually see some teams trying vet dungeons with that same debuff active.
The whole purpose of a debuff food was that you can't use something else to buff you again - what is the purpose of a debuff to have more challenge if you then buff yourself again to counter the debuff - this would not be any reasonable.
And yes I generalize over the whole group of people wanting more challenge in overland - it was not directed to a specific person really, but more towards the whole group and including everything I read on the forum about it, not just this thread.
I will retire from this thread now - I guess all is said from my side - I made some constructive proposals and that's it from my side.Edited by Lysette on June 10, 2020 2:45PM2 -
Wandering_Immigrant✭✭✭✭i am fine with that as long as they don't demand as well better rewards - i just don't believe them if they want better rewards as well.
Why can't the base reward be blue or purple, as opposed to green? *points at vet vs normal dungeons*
Getting a 'Perfected Mother's Sorrow Staff' vs a normal one is crazy though. There's already too many item sets.
because then it is about better and easier farming and not about fighting boredom.
Easier farming would be flipping it to normal rather than vet, would it not? Trials / Perfected gear excluded, there's a reason everyone farms the normal dungeons when after a certain set piece. Then you get harder vet content with better tier (decon) rewards. It'd be entirely 100% consistent with the rest of the game design. Besides - it's primarily for questing purposes that people want harder overworld - farming and questing don't really go together.
i would believe it if you would take the higher difficulty without any better rewards whatsoever - but you just don't want that, so i don't believe these people.
I'll give you a thousand embroidery and thousand elegant lining to make up the difference should ZOS ever implement it if you want.
i have enough resources thank you - i don't care much about rewards either. it is not about that i would get less, it is more about honesty to me - i think that the demand for better rewards just shows that people are not honest about it. And i stick with blue gear to not overpower myself -then the game is just fine as it is given my ping.
A higher difficulty setting without better rewards is entirely pointless. I've always been honest about that.
Otherwise there would be no difference in rewards for normal/veteran/HM group content, either.
you see it is not about fighting boredom and it being too easy - you want better and easier to get rewards.i hope you won't get that ever.
This is why the rewards can’t be mechanical or in any way improve the character stats better/faster, because if they were then normal zones would become empty.
It has to be cosmetic rewards that players can earn & show off
Rewards shouldn't be anything unique. The point of rewards for such a system shouldn't be to make people who don't want to challenge themselves feel left out, instead it should be to incentivise people who like a challenge but would stay on normal anyway because they'd benefit more from going through content more quickly. So, slight increase to exp gains, gold gains, increased chance in the loot pool for blue and purple trash gear, things like that to make up the difference so that equal time spent grants equal rewards is all it takes. You want people to opt for staying in hard mode not toggle it for a skin then turning it off.
For the record I don't care about additional rewards, I'm not interested in a hard mode. What I would want is for the difficulty to be brought up at a base level so that everyone stays on the same page. Too many people go into dungeons not knowing how to block or interupt or dodge or break free. An overworld experience that says "if you don't
learn to do these things, you might not fail completely, but you're gonna have a bad time" would help.
I'm also not asking it to be so a hard that a high CP player with halfway decent gear would struggle. At that point you're, presumably, the world's hero, you've defeated molag Bal, you've saved the alliance and dealt with dragon infestations, dealing with a small village's corrupt leader should be small tomatoes. You're superman, you've foiled Lex Luther's plans for world domination and now there's a flasher in the park, he's probably not gonna take you down.
When I level a new character I don't apply CP until they hit level 50, I don't even spend skillpoints on passives until about level 36 and only then because dungeons bump up slightly at that point so I unlock them for the benefit of the groups I get not my own. Even when I started playing I soloed my first worldboss at level 16, it was scalebreaker on a no-pet magsorc. It's these kinds of things that need to be fixed, and it should be an across the board adjustment.
However, from a developer standpoint, if they were to go the optional route, they would need as many people participating as possible to justify spending resources on making it work. To do that they would need to incentivise people who would be on the fence about it. Hence, rewards.1 -
silvereyes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Thank you, @KarlosCV, for sharing your experience as a new player. Many of us have wanted a difficulty slider for overworld content for a long time, so the more people that request harder overworld content, the more likely ZOS will listen.[PC/NA] @silvereyes | My Addons on ESOUI.com3 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes, OP, exactly my feelings when I started playing this game...
Only my love for Elder Scrolls lore + group content (and PVP) kept me in game.
Overland is unplayable (for me), it is not even easy, it is just pointlessly easy to the point where immersion is absolutely destroyed... but overland is only ~50% of content, veteran group content is ok in terms of challenge, don't worry
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Thoragaal✭✭✭✭✭
It's possible that it's not a binary thing, when it comes to difficulty. @tet666 might only want the challenge, while someone like me actually want to feel like my character is getting stronger, like you suggested @Lysette .
I like going into an area and complely clear it before moving on to the next. If I'm in Reapers March doing quests, why would I all of a sudden want to go visit Glenumbra? The tiny bit of immersion ESO has gets completely ruined (at least for me) if I all of a sudden drop what ever's happening (in Reapers March) only to start investing time into a new story (in Glenumbra).
Sorry if I missed it, but why would having better rewards for a higher difficulty be an issue?
be so kind and just look it up in this thread - you want to know it, then put in the effort - you know, higher difficulty - reading.
I was hoping you could give the answer instead of me having to read through everything you've written here.
Either way, after reading every post in this thread from you, I don't see you giving a reason to why getting better rewards for a higher difficulty would be an issue. I genuinely want to know your take on it.
it goes with the request of instanced zones with it - zones which won't be crowed but have all the farming nodes and make easier and more efficient farming possible. And as far as drops go - why have them purple or gold even, are you guys so poor? seriously if someone needs an upgrade those are low level players not veterans who run around in their golded gear claiming everything to be too easy. if it is really just about the challenge, you don't need better rewards and certainly no own instances. Insisting on that is just dishonest about your real intentions.
No, no, no.. I didn't ask or suggest we should have instanced zones or that we should have purple or golden gear drop.
I was only asking about "better rewards for a higher difficulty". Considering we have normal/vet/perfected drops from dungeons already, maybe you're not inherently against the idea of it?
Imagine a scenario like this: You're out doing a quest and you find it being too easy. You open the options menu to change the difficulty and now your stats has been lowered, across the board. While killing the mobs on this changed setting, the drops you find have slightly higher base stats than originally, you find a bit more gold, maybe a chance for a bonus item. Likewise if you were to lower the difficulty, the drops would have lower base stats in comparison, you'd get a bit less gold and less of a chance for a bonus item.
Iirc, it would be similar to what Diablo 3 has.The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
"I've always wanted to kick a duck up the arse" -Karl Pilkington, on the question what he'd do if it was the last day on earth.0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
It's possible that it's not a binary thing, when it comes to difficulty. @tet666 might only want the challenge, while someone like me actually want to feel like my character is getting stronger, like you suggested @Lysette .
I like going into an area and complely clear it before moving on to the next. If I'm in Reapers March doing quests, why would I all of a sudden want to go visit Glenumbra? The tiny bit of immersion ESO has gets completely ruined (at least for me) if I all of a sudden drop what ever's happening (in Reapers March) only to start investing time into a new story (in Glenumbra).
Sorry if I missed it, but why would having better rewards for a higher difficulty be an issue?
be so kind and just look it up in this thread - you want to know it, then put in the effort - you know, higher difficulty - reading.
I was hoping you could give the answer instead of me having to read through everything you've written here.
Either way, after reading every post in this thread from you, I don't see you giving a reason to why getting better rewards for a higher difficulty would be an issue. I genuinely want to know your take on it.
it goes with the request of instanced zones with it - zones which won't be crowed but have all the farming nodes and make easier and more efficient farming possible. And as far as drops go - why have them purple or gold even, are you guys so poor? seriously if someone needs an upgrade those are low level players not veterans who run around in their golded gear claiming everything to be too easy. if it is really just about the challenge, you don't need better rewards and certainly no own instances. Insisting on that is just dishonest about your real intentions.
No, no, no.. I didn't ask or suggest we should have instanced zones or that we should have purple or golden gear drop.
I was only asking about "better rewards for a higher difficulty". Considering we have normal/vet/perfected drops from dungeons already, maybe you're not inherently against the idea of it?
Imagine a scenario like this: You're out doing a quest and you find it being too easy. You open the options menu to change the difficulty and now your stats has been lowered, across the board. While killing the mobs on this changed setting, the drops you find have slightly higher base stats than originally, you find a bit more gold, maybe a chance for a bonus item. Likewise if you were to lower the difficulty, the drops would have lower base stats in comparison, you'd get a bit less gold and less of a chance for a bonus item.
Iirc, it would be similar to what Diablo 3 has.
this sounds actually quite reasonable to me.0 -
AverageJo3Gam3r✭✭✭✭✭Increasing mob difficulty wouldn’t be a bad thing if there wasn’t approximately 700 mobs between me and the next quest marker.2 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I did not read the wall of replies. The scaling has a few good things about it,
1) All zones are still relevant even after you ran through them. I have played for 4 years and still visit every zone for various reasons.
2) Overland is suppose to be fairly easy. Overland is more of an interactive story, rather than a true game. The elder scroll series always levels the area to you.
3) It allows you to play the game in any order you desire rather than a set route determined by the developers. Again overland is more about the experience of the story.
Group content is the hard content. Public dungeons being the easiest of these, followed by base game world bosses and dungeons. But content does get progressively harder as long as you are doing group content. DLC dungeons progress in difficulty and use raid mechanics that if you dont do certain things at certain times you die, or your group dies, or everyone dies. Vet dungeons add an even more drastic set of mechanics with hard DPS checks, enrage timers and multiple instakill mechanics.
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Josira✭✭✭✭I remember back when I was so new that overland content was hard for me(this was wwaaay before one tamriel,so vet levels and leveled zones and all existed)
I remember harvester's being damn scary. the same as storm atronach's.
But I also think that if I knew how the game worked back then I would of been able to steamroll all overland content like nowdays. maybe a bit harder. but still..well..steamroll.
The thing that urks me a lot is bosses for like end of quests and end of zone stories "HAHAHAH FEAR ME! ME BIG SCARY *insert creature or cult leader* YOU WILL NEVER-" aaand their gone.
That combined with the terrible terrible writing and voice acting in the majority of zone quests just turns me off questing alltogether.
"BlooD FReNZy TicKS aLL thE BoXes of WhaT iT mEanS tO bE a VaMpiRe"2 -
Olauron✭✭✭✭✭
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Actually in overland and delves of ESO every grandmother and her cat has stun, snare or some other crowd control effect. If you blindly attack any creature with light attack, you with good chance will hit monster with crowd control. In Clockwork City delves there are spiders and factotums, in Summerset delves there are shadowstrikes, werewolves, etc. Gryphon boss of King's Haven Pass has a number of crowd control attacks, and if you don't block his attack, he can remove more than half of health, and it is deadly if you already got some damage.Wandering_Immigrant wrote: »For the record I don't care about additional rewards, I'm not interested in a hard mode. What I would want is for the difficulty to be brought up at a base level so that everyone stays on the same page. Too many people go into dungeons not knowing how to block or interupt or dodge or break free. An overworld experience that says "if you don't learn to do these things, you might not fail completely, but you're gonna have a bad time" would help.The Three Storm Sharks, episode 8 released on january the 8th.
One mer to rule them all,
one mer to find them,
One mer to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them.0 -
I have to agree with the OP. He is sharing a perspective of a new player and he nails a huge disappointment in the game, which is the general content difficulty.
Everywhere you go
- Overland monsters are stupid easy
- Delves stupid easy
- World bosses soloable and easy
- Dungeons aside from DLC easy even on veteran hard mode (once you have a functioning build and some sense of what you doing)
- Normal trials are easy (once you have a functioning group of people with a sense of what they need to do)
- Normal arenas are easy (once you have a functioning group of people with a sense of what they need to do)
- Veteran DLC dungeons, Veteran trials are challenging)
- PVP is challenging due to meta builds ruling it
So my consensus is that you can find challenging the game, but by the time you get there you get bored. And very little content in the game is challenging compared to the size of the world.
Now on the constructive side. I believe a level 10 should find a challenge across the game world as much as a CP 810. The game has a scaling mechanic but it could be used a lot better by scaling from level 1 to CP 810+ Everywhere I go I rather fight with a few difficult monsters rather than bumping into an annoying agroed monster every step of the way just to 2 shot it.
I want to see challenging fights when I go to a delve, or overland. Not annoying 2 shotable squat monsters everywhere. I want to fight decent fights not steam roll through every where i go.
But I have decent amount of experience in ESO and other mmo-s and a learned the fight mechanics to decent extent, and i have to acknowledge that there are players who are not experienced as much so why not have a content difficulty setting, where I can set the difficulty of the zone I want to do content in. Like "Beginner", "Normal", "Hard". "Challenging", "Legendary")
Or just scale it with CP, or anything but make the game a challenge not a steam roll through content.1 -
Luke_Flamesword✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Hmm, what you think about keeping easy difficulty for new players but with a bit longer fights? It's easy to achieve - some buff in health and armor for mobs but with slightly less damage power. In effect they will be alive a bit longer than 1 second but still will be not very harmful.
Just give players a chance to learn a full rotation PC | EU | DC |Stam Dk Breton0 -
Luke_Flamesword wrote: »Hmm, what you think about keeping easy difficulty for new players but with a bit longer fights? It's easy to achieve - some buff in health and armor for mobs but with slightly less damage power. In effect they will be alive a bit longer than 1 second but still will be not very harmful.
Just give players a chance to learn a full rotation
You are making a good point, it should not be only a higher HP, higher damage. It should be more about punishing mechanics if not avoided, mobs working together to unleash a combo on you, which is present in the game but in a joke difficulty category. Make the fights more interesting, where you have to avoid stuff, find the right moments to do your damage, and pick priority targets i a pull.
Higher difficulty would require a faster reaction time, which is also already in the game but only noticeable in the more difficult Vet dungeon.
Initially Craglorn had that concept, and i loved it.
Now fair to say that difficult content is present in the game. My opinion is the difficulty of the game should be present in the whole world, not just in a few parts of the content. The main reason I love this game is the active fighting system, besides the lore, and the quality of the art of the game. I love when I need to decide when to Heavy Attack, use a skill, Dodge Roll, Block etc.. There is very small percent in the game content I need to be actively engage in the combat.
For a new player lvl 10 the game should be forgiving anywhere he goes and introduce challenge gradually, but for veteran CP 810 it should be punishing and difficult, so all that Champion Points have a reason to be in the game. And not just in a Vet trial or Vet DLC0
This discussion has been closed.