Why were monster sets nerfed?

MartiniDaniels

Calypso589 wrote: »

ItsJustHashtag wrote: »

Calypso589 wrote: »

Jaimeh wrote: »

Calypso589 wrote: »

Jaimeh wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

To get people to farm the mythic item

+1 to the list of people who haven’t actually looked at what mythic items do. Lol

@Olupajmibanan

One thing you maybe don't know about symphony is that it got stealth changed and the cooldown is now tied to receivers (you get meridias boon, you can't get another in 18 seconds from any source), therefore only one symphony actualy can be used in a trial group.

It wasn’t a stealth change. It was there plain as day in week 1 of the PTS patch notes.

I did not however know that the current version could stack on someone, though in order for that to happen the person would have to REALLY be burning through their resources which is probably indicative of bad play.

But like I said, the wider group utility of Symphony is being seen as a buff. It’s a good thing that only 1 support will have to wear it now.

We've looked at the items, but it seems that are nerfing sets just enough to pave the way for alternative build ideas where you're not doing the usual 5/5/2. If the mythic items didn't offer anything too distinctive, and if other sets remained superior, people who only care about end-game wouldn't engage with the antiquity system.

No. Just, no. To imply that nerfs to monster sets are designed to push mythic items is to imply that Mythic Items will serve to fill whatever’s missing

Think about it. What Mythic item is being pushed by Lord Warden being nerfed?

I mean cmon people.

None of those items are going to disrupt 5/5/2 in trials (as far as optimized groups go).


They. Are. Niche. THATS what they’re designed to be.

Thrassian Stranglers are going to be used to cheese dungeon speed runs & potentially no death runs. That’s gonna be hilariously awesome.

The speed ring will be great for overworld gathering.

The heavy chest that restores magicka miiiiiight have some PVP applications but will be utterly useless in PvE because Balance is a thing.

The other ones aren’t even being discussed in any capacity. 🤷🏻‍♂️

There are reasons to engage with antiquities that have nothing to do with Trials, as I’ve briefly outlined.

But other than that, this notion that they’re nerfing monster sets to push mythic is incredibly ignorant.

It implies that the monster sets that were adjusted will be dropped.

They won’t be. The adjustments were NOT that severe.

They’ve nerfed items in the past to pave way for newer better items, especially for items behind a pay wall.

People like you keep running with that conspiracy but it falls apart the moment you look and see how the newer items are not being used at all.

Who do you see running around with Mother Ciannait? lol

Because ZOS doesn't play their own game. Their logic was: hmm... we were buffing magplars all year and now we'll sell iceheart replacement for magplars. Fact that magplars already ceased to be popular mag dps in that moment eluded from ZOS. Maybe they used some outdated ESO logs lol

Xologamer

BalticBlues wrote: »

JanTanhide wrote: »

One word: PVP

Exactly.
1. DD streamers are always wailing about tanks and healers.
2. Streamers want to show more kills in their streams.
3. ZOS nerfs tank and healer monster sets and buffs DD monster sets.

The problem: ZOS nerfs monster sets not only for PvP but ALSO for PvE.
Considering the crazy about of damage and one-shot-hits in the latest DLC Dungeons,
this puts a crapload of more pressure especially on tanks.

For one full year now, ZOS seems to in the hand of PVP STAM DDs.
MagBlades, MagSorcPets, MagVampires and now also Tank/Healer monster sets got ruined.
The result: Even more tanks will stop pugging vDLC.
With crappy tank monster sets, you need really good people (friends) in vDLC.

nope this is defnetly wrong at least stam nb got trash in pvp so not all stam classes^^

blkjag

How else would they sell mystic items?

Calypso589

@satanio I've succesfully used this setup,

You successfully made things harder on yourself is what you did but okay 👍🏻

Seems like lack of actual experience with the set on your side.

Experience is the exact reason I don’t use the set. There are objectively better options to support your team with. Tava’s is too selfish. It’s unnecessary. Warhorn or colossi being up a few seconds faster is not the game changer you think it is. It really isn’t. As MT you’re better off in Yolnahkriin & Alkosh and wearing either Symphony or Earthgore, the latter being if Scalding Roar clips you.

Off tank would be in Ebon/worm/Hircine or even Olorime. Depends on overall group composition.

But extra ulti-gen is a waste.

How many alkoshes or Dragon defilements does the group need? 12?
Ye, effective set distribution matters.

What are you talking about? One tank wears Yoln & defiled dragon. That’s it.

Where are you getting 12? O.0

Representation of MagDD vs StamDD? Wearing Hircine in party full of magsorcs, magdks and magnbs seems like a good idea. Really useful, the amount of stamina it saves for their dodges...

I refuse to believe you legitimately thought I meant both Worm & Hircine would be used in the same trial.

And? The punchline for this one is?

There’s no punchline? Why would there be a punchline? Dungeon fights are shorter fights. Ergo sustain isn’t as big an issue, if it’s an issue at all.

A single synergy is needed every 10-15 seconds to keep Linebreaker up so Alkosh is the BiS no matter the group you’re with.

Unless you have zero synergies which would be.....impressive.

So, you are saying, that Bloodspawn wasn't ever used by PvE tanks right?

In serious Vet trials or higher? Nope, not really.

Warden and Earthgore are both situational.

Earthgore is situational. Warden is all purpose. Remember, it’s providing both physical and spell resistance. 👍🏻

Symphony was ok, but since the stealth nerf -> only one in a group.

Okay quick side tangent here.

This was not a “stealth nerf.” People who see that a big number became a smaller number & don’t apply any further thought processes call it a stealth nerf.

But you gotta look a little deeper.

So, let’s look at what else was changed with Symphony shall we?

The cooldown of 22 seconds is now applied per target.

What does that mean?

It means that Meridia’s Favor can now literally be applied to the entire group at once or to multiple players in rapid succession. It just depends on what everyone’s resources are lookin like when it proccs.

This is in fact a MAJOR buff to group sustain & the endgame community (as well as anyone who can math) is treating it as that.

The fact that only one support will have to wear Symphony now is a good thing.

Unless of course you think Meridia’s Favor on one target every 22 seconds is somehow better.

That leaves us with 3 free monster sets slots for supports. One will probably be Rkugamz or Troll King (situational). So what the tanks wear when party does not need Earthgore or Warden?

It’ll be either Warden or Stonekeeper. It won’t be bloodspawn because a tank doesn’t need the extra armor and the group isn’t benefited much by extra ultigen.

Extra resources from Stonekeeper is better which is why it’s run fairly often as you yourself are about to demonstrate with that
ESO logs link you think is gonna stump me.

Also Tremorscale. Next patch Tremorscale will be mandatory in stamina compositions. 👍🏻

Why do you need AS SnB and Balance? You mentioned that Balance is endless resources...so why gimping the tank with the set that the group really does not need.

*sigh*

Because it’s not JUST about resources, my dude.

Balance provides that magicka.....but it also provides Major Resolve.

Defensive Position works with Defensive Stance to give you magicka.....but stance also provides you with passive defensive buffs & block cost reduction for being slotted.

And that is why AS SnB isn't used. Because there is only one instance of frequent Defensive Posture usage, and that is Lokkestiz in vSS non-HM or HM. Having AS SnB and Alkosh on back bar is like checking what is stuck inside your loaded gun up close with your own eye. Very dangerous, but that is your choice.

Again, you gave me a setup where Alkosh was on one bar, the purpose of which was to slot in a set piece for magicka sustain.

So I responded with a better setup for that purpose.

I did not say it was used often in Trials.

Moreso in dungeons actually.

Ah, ok. So that is why for example these people use Stonekeeper.

Stonekeeper is used because it provides a return on all three of your resources for very little work, giving it primo value.

It gets used with balance because again, Balance is magicka return and a major buff.

Now as far as Stonekeeper goes, its a tossup whether or not you’ll see much more if it.

Because the problem with the logs you’re showing me is that they are from this patch.

We’re talking about next patch.

Next patch Stonekeeper will be much less effective but arguably still good.

But guess what isn’t changing?

Balance. Lol

You're still not understanding that the "dead stat" is completely irrelevant, since all of alkosh stats except the last one are dead stats, are you? Here we are, wearing Alkosh.

Considering what makes Alkosh so good is the 5 piece bonus, the useless 4 bonuses are an unfortunate inevitability that cannot be avoided.

The 5 piece bonus is worth it.

Is the dead stat on potentates a necessary, unavoidable result?

No.

Because potentates itself is unnecessary. Slightly faster horns are not worth the trouble nor are they needed.

If something has potential, it does not mean it is meta or every tank has to use it. Your reading comprehension is outstanding.

What’s the potential? To gimp yourself with a dead stat and a 1 piece that’s outperformed by a skill?

Why do they use it? Because if sustain is not an issue, defense is not an issue, burst heal is not an issue, the best thing that any tank can do is enhance his ulti uptime.

And why would sustain, defense & burst heals not be an issue?

Because you’re wearing sets that buff those things & not sets that boost ultimate regen. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

I've made my points regarding Balance, I have nothing against it. It's a skill.
Not a set.

By that logic healers would still be running Twilight Remedy to give groups Minor Force despite the fact that every DPS can give it to themselves with a single skill in their rotation.

If a single skill can do what an entire set does, then you don’t run the set.

Case closed.

Particularly if the results of that skill are objectively better.

Look, you don’t need to believe me. You can watch & observe how little Bloodlird’s gets used in a few months (when we have a lot of data).

Peace.

Kadoin

Some of the sets needed a nerf, but other changes literally made no sense to keep after they decided not to do the LA changes.

Example?

Grundwulf and Arch-Mage changes still have me salty.

I was using arch-mage for my hybrid DW chars to regen mag, but that's cut and while it got adjusted, I don't recall ever reading a nerf to a set that is stronger (Senchal). It was honestly the one set I thought wouldn't get nerfed! When I saw nerf I seriously went to sleep and woke back up that's how much it hurt my head.

As for Grundwulf Oh well, at least the dungeon I did to get it is my favorite ESO dungeon. I don't even remember the name now since it's now worthless to run.

naturebased

Grundwulf doesnt make any sense to me. Literally no one is using that set as is

YandereGirlfriend

naturebased wrote: »

Grundwulf doesnt make any sense to me. Literally no one is using that set as is

It makes even LESS sense given that it was only created ~6 months ago when the whole "balancing via spreadsheet" model had already been implemented.

So it was A-okay according to the spreadsheet back in October but by April it had become wildly OP and needed a 34% nerf. Because that makes sense.

Which leaves us with only two options: a) either the spreadsheet changed (in which case, why weren't all sets nerfed by 34%) or the itemization team simply changed its mind independently of the spreadsheet (in which case, why does the spreadsheet even exist and why is it used for only some sets and not for others?).

Truly, their item balance logic disintegrates under even the lightest degree of scrutiny.

Calypso589

naturebased wrote: »

Grundwulf doesnt make any sense to me. Literally no one is using that set as is

Apparently they are considering how many are whining about it. lol

I assume it was PvP related since Grundwulf proccs off of crit.......hence why we don't see it much on PvE tanks.

ccfeeling

Grundwulf , I really can't believe ZOS gonna nerf this set .

ZOS should nerf it before selling .

ItsJustHashtag

One small point as other points regarding ZOS nerfing items/sets/skills to promote a new behind paywalls skill is as follows.

Defile nerfed across the board and guess what class gets released with aoe on demand major defile during Elswyre? Necromancer, behind a paywall.

Nagastani

The problem is they mostly did a large nerf across the board without giving us a reason to relate the change to. This has got them in trouble before with some of these larger patch updates we've seen in more recent times and it isn't clear why so many changes? And this is the problem with changing too much at one time, meaningful change takes time otherwise you will revolve back to where you started and people will not respect your vision (or follow it, especially). Clearly at least half of these changes were not needed and no one asked for them. People build things in different ways which makes it hard to say one way or another whether or not something needed to be changed.

This is a symptom of the problem and why this was bad. If my build leverages something better than say yours, that is called working as intended. That does not necessarily mean it is broken although it could be considered OP, however there should always be some kind of trade off. Do we punish people now for designing great things? With that said I understand there are exploits and stuff like that, that's not what I'm talking about. It's just things like Zaan and Elf Bane, while powerful, was logical. Zaan was never a huge threat to me anyways. You can always find a reason to nerf something but if it's supposed to be op because of how the sets interact on a fundamental level, I call that working as intended. If you have to introduce a false 'barrier' that goes against the fundamental relationship between sets then you have a larger problem.

Strength and Weakness are not necessarily bad as long as they are in the right context. But we can't really tell what the context is and can't fathom a reason why the changes because as far as I can tell most of these monster sets were working as they should. Now with some of these, I'm struggling to find a reason to even consider using them (in their current role) going forward. Just like for years in ESO, I've done quite a bit of trading and you know my yearly gains are no longer going into savings, I am having to spend a small fortune trying to keep up with all the changes and having to move to new sets.

I'm concerned if they continue nerfing things we're all going to be running basically the same build. Word of mouth spreads fast and as hard as things are in Trials and PvP, no one is going to want to be left behind. And, no one will have any real choice because of other people complaining that everything is OP so even if I want to design something better, if I'm capable of more I am forced to have a dumber build now. Game is in a bad state for build diversity. Old content should be leveraged along with the new, don't kill the traditional sets that people 'grew up on' to push your new sets on us. If they are worth using that should stand for itself. But that's getting harder to do isn't it I suspect you guys already realize your problem is that you have too many sets in game already and so are having to break things in order to introduce something 'new'.

Sometimes it makes me wonder if I wish to continue with this game because these days there's way to much whining and complaining. I think the game was in a better state when it was sub only because there is a difference in caring about something when you're paying for it vs it being given to you. I'm not telling ZOS how to run their business but I wouldn't look for things to get any better. If you guys have any good builds, I would use them sparingly or they might end up here on the forums Esp if certain streamers catch them. Some people all they do is complain, call out the set/build for nerf rather than being a man about it and accept the fact they were defeated fairly. Everyone who kills you is not cheating... and I don't think it's even possible to nerf NB anymore than where it is now and still look at it with a straight face and call it a 'class'. More like a High School class with seniors getting ready to graduate with half the glass already gone, getting ready to move on to bigger and better things.

Whose fault will it be when we're all basically running the same thing. Will I get called out for having an extra Wep Dmg buff on my necklace? I swear it's gotten to the point it's getting insane and I'm insane for constantly having to find a new build every month or two cause you guys keep breaking things that are for the most part working as intended. It's almost like we're burning books up in here, c'mon?

ItsJustHashtag

You have to buy warden class with crowns. So that is two classes with access to it behind a pay wall.

You have to spec into werewolf, a play style that is not very popular in PVP.

You have to be a magplar to have it be worth running.

Standard is the only one that can be used on mag or stam but in general predominantly magicka toons due to leap being a far superior class ult.

Calypso589

You have to buy warden class with crowns. So that is two classes with access to it behind a pay wall.

I’m sorry that you’re in a position where paying a 1 time fee of 15 dollars for content you’re not inherently entitled to is too much for you. 🤷🏻‍♂️

I was under the impression that everyone was satisfied with getting both the warden AND necro when they bought Elsweyr or that they were satisfied with buying just the class if the chapter itself wasn’t to their liking.

But I guess it’s a really big issue that you’re bringing up.

A major issue indeed. 👍🏻

A lot sets that are used in PvP come from DLC you have to pay for as well. Are you complaining about those too?

How far down the rabbit hole does the “I hate paying for goods” argument go? 🤔🤔

MartiniDaniels

Calypso589 wrote: »

You have to buy warden class with crowns. So that is two classes with access to it behind a pay wall.

I’m sorry that you’re in a position where paying a 1 time fee of 15 dollars for content you’re not inherently entitled to is too much for you. 🤷🏻‍♂️

I was under the impression that everyone was satisfied with getting both the warden AND necro when they bought Elsweyr or that they were satisfied with buying just the class if the chapter itself wasn’t to their liking.

But I guess it’s a really big issue that you’re bringing up.

A major issue indeed. 👍🏻

A lot sets that are used in PvP come from DLC you have to pay for as well. Are you complaining about those too?

How far down the rabbit hole does the “I hate paying for goods” argument go? 🤔🤔

As far as when somebody has major brutality/sorcery + healing + purge + sustain + bonus damage for being slotted for ability with zero cost and when somebody has major defile on extremely cheap ranged non-projectile bomb with ulti-level damage, while major defile was removed from regular and less overloaded abilities like reverb and DK has 4k cost for ability which does much less then netch.
As far when DK class identity ability was gutted "to remove hard counters", while shimmering shield remained intact.

For unknown reason, base game 4 classes are all balanced "by spreadsheet" with probably 3 exceptions of leap, jabs, streak and 2 DLC classes have ton of "rule-breakers".

Xebov

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

Bloodspawn: Again the unique aspect of the set was nerfed in favor of keeping a mediocre hybrid effect. In my opinion the ulti gen should be brought back to what it was and remove the armor buff part of it completely. There are plenty of armor buffing sets if that's what you're looking for. There was ONLY ONE ultimate generation set.

Im not sure how you can be suprised that a monster set thats the number one used for BGs and that is one of the reasons for Ulti spam got its ulti regen reduced.

ItsJustHashtag

Let’s not forget Maelstrom/Master weapons losing their extra enchant before the Asylum weapons patch that had perfected versions behind a paywall

Iron_Blurr

Calypso589 wrote: »

You have to buy warden class with crowns. So that is two classes with access to it behind a pay wall.

I’m sorry that you’re in a position where paying a 1 time fee of 15 dollars for content you’re not inherently entitled to is too much for you. 🤷🏻‍♂️

I was under the impression that everyone was satisfied with getting both the warden AND necro when they bought Elsweyr or that they were satisfied with buying just the class if the chapter itself wasn’t to their liking.

But I guess it’s a really big issue that you’re bringing up.

A major issue indeed. 👍🏻

A lot sets that are used in PvP come from DLC you have to pay for as well. Are you complaining about those too?

How far down the rabbit hole does the “I hate paying for goods” argument go? 🤔🤔

Dont be dense. Respect his arguments instead of straw manning them. Here I'll give you an example of the kind of BS zos pulls.
They removed minor toughness from war horn to make warden the only source of it. Why do you think they did that? Was that also too broken in pvp? Or maybe just MAYBE they did it to make warden look more appealing to boost sales..
No one is complaining about new classes having access to unique and exclusive things. The crappy part is when they removed things from other classes, skills and set to turn around and re-sell it to us through dlc content.

Iron_Blurr

Xebov wrote: »

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

Bloodspawn: Again the unique aspect of the set was nerfed in favor of keeping a mediocre hybrid effect. In my opinion the ulti gen should be brought back to what it was and remove the armor buff part of it completely. There are plenty of armor buffing sets if that's what you're looking for. There was ONLY ONE ultimate generation set.

Im not sure how you can be suprised that a monster set thats the number one used for BGs and that is one of the reasons for Ulti spam got its ulti regen reduced.

Who cares if it was best in slot. That doesn't inherently make it bad for the game. They just buffed zaan the arguably best monster set in the game. There will always be a best in slot setup that is slightly superior to other setups. I just dont like the facts that they nerfed the unique elements of these sets in favor of more watered down versions. If bloodspawn needs a nerf so be it. Completely remove the armor buff from it. Make the ulti gen the only benefit it gives.
Similarly they removed the dual procs on llambris when that was the whole point of the set. That was it's identify. We have plenty of fire damage monster sets. How many lighting damage ones do we have? I would rather them cut the damage of the new llambris in half but make it always proc both elemental storms at the same time. On paper it would be the same damage but it would keep the unique elements of the set intact for use in creative builds.

CurvedSwords123

To sell their new mythics/Greymoor.

Ekzorka

If Stonekeeper will be nerfed, then the last boss in Frostvault is nerfed too? Because the main reason I got this set was Frostvault Hard Mode. After this set helped me in a few older HMs as well.
If not, what the reason? It's too popular? The popularity is now punishable by nerfs?
"We've opted to allow the stacks to generate much more frequently, helping the set function better in outnumbered situations" - excuse me, but what situations they're talking about? Trash packs? World bosses?
I've been wearing this for 1 year, it helped me in many critical situations. And it wasn't some kind of stupid "outnumbered situations", it was a bosses that deals a lot damage. Don't you think about bosses, dear devs? Or worse, devs know, that it's a helpful set and just nerf it for... I don't know, for the healers who complains that nobody take them in dungeons?

Same with Grundwulf: I just found something that will help me with sustain - and here we go again. So the last year problem with sustain that was deliberately created to promote new sets is still not solved.

BalticBlues

Ekzorka wrote: »

If Stonekeeper will be nerfed, then the last boss in Frostvault is nerfed too? [...] I've been wearing this for 1 year, it helped me in many critical situations. And it wasn't some kind of stupid "outnumbered situations", it was a bosses that deals a lot damage. Don't you think about bosses, dear devs?

THIS. I also needed Stonekeeper for the new wave of ULTI-HIGH-DAMAGE-ONE-SHOT DLCs where tanks die losing just one single block. You often have to block so much that there is no time for heavy attacks. If they nerf the Stonekeeper regen, I just cannot pug anymore. Then I only can run with the best (friends and guildies) where I can rely on synergies...

Calypso589

BalticBlues wrote: »

Ekzorka wrote: »

If Stonekeeper will be nerfed, then the last boss in Frostvault is nerfed too? [...] I've been wearing this for 1 year, it helped me in many critical situations. And it wasn't some kind of stupid "outnumbered situations", it was a bosses that deals a lot damage. Don't you think about bosses, dear devs?

THIS. I also needed Stonekeeper for the new wave of ULTI-HIGH-DAMAGE-ONE-SHOT DLCs where tanks die losing just one single block. You often have to block so much that there is no time for heavy attacks. If they nerf the Stonekeeper regen, I just cannot pug anymore. Then I only can run with the best (friends and guildies) where I can rely on synergies...

What's your excuse for people who don't wear Stonekeeper who do survive all these one-shots?

This is a L2P issue, you're describing.

There's always time to get stamina back. There's always time to do a heavy or two.

ItsJustHashtag

Calypso589 wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

Ekzorka wrote: »

If Stonekeeper will be nerfed, then the last boss in Frostvault is nerfed too? [...] I've been wearing this for 1 year, it helped me in many critical situations. And it wasn't some kind of stupid "outnumbered situations", it was a bosses that deals a lot damage. Don't you think about bosses, dear devs?

THIS. I also needed Stonekeeper for the new wave of ULTI-HIGH-DAMAGE-ONE-SHOT DLCs where tanks die losing just one single block. You often have to block so much that there is no time for heavy attacks. If they nerf the Stonekeeper regen, I just cannot pug anymore. Then I only can run with the best (friends and guildies) where I can rely on synergies...

What's your excuse for people who don't wear Stonekeeper who do survive all these one-shots?

This is a L2P issue, you're describing.

There's always time to get stamina back. There's always time to do a heavy or two.

The ease of how you complete content vs another player doesn’t do anything to diminish his argument. He may not be as skilled as you are in this game but this set allows him to complete vet content whether with pre-made group or a PUG. It also doesn’t diminish the fact that monster sets are being nerfed to pave the way for mythic items. As this has been pointed out multiple scenarios where ZOS has done this.


Since you seem so competent and a fine player, do you mind linking all the skins you’ve earned?

Calypso589

@ItsJustHashtag He may not be as skilled as you are in this game but this set allows him to complete vet content whether with pre-made group or a PUG.

And that'll still be true next patch.

If the absence of some 2k+ resource return is what makes or breaks your ability to do content, then that is absolutely a L2P issue. There's no arguing against that. Gear is helpful but only to a point. Using it as a total crutch is a mistake.

It also doesn’t diminish the fact that monster sets are being nerfed to pave the way for mythic items.

That's not a fact.

That's an assumption made by people who haven't even bothered to look at what Mythics do or investigate on their own their viability.

News Flash: Mythic applications are extremely niche and monster sets aren't going anywhere.

Lemme break it down for you since everyone is so intent on riding this crazy conspiracy train into the station.

Bloodlord's Embrace: Totally outperformed by the skill "Balance." This set will not be used whatsoever by serious PvE tanks. Zero reason to replace current preferred monster sets to slot this chest piece. Potential PvP applications but I haven't heard much murmuring about that. Probably because Balance's resource return and Major Buff is also great in PvP.

Malacath's Band of Brutality: Complete removal of crit chance flies in the face of the current crit meta so once again, this is a ring that will not be slot at all by PvE DPS. Noone's even talking about it. Current monster set preference will remain.

Ring of the Wild Hunt: Gathering in the overworld will be faster. Scroll runners in Cyrodiil may slot this. Battleground Applications are up in the air. Useless in PvE dungeons/Trials. Current monster set preferences will remain.

Snow Treaders: Again, another set that has way more PvP potential than PvE. Current monster set preferences will remain the same. In PvP? I suppose that depends on the game type. These'll be great in Chaosball.

Thrassian Stranglers: This is the ONLY set that magicka compositions will start every trial with as the damage is so good. Depending on how sweaty your group is you'll either reset the instance upon a wipe, or you'll just swap to a non-thrassian build. So depending on how your group decides to operate..........current monster set preferences will remain the same.

Torc of Tonal Consistency: Do I even need to discuss why this one is useless? Current monster set preferences will remain the same.

====================================

So please. Tell me again exactly how it's adding up that these monster set nerfs are designed to push their mythic items?

Since you seem so competent and a fine player, do you mind linking all the skins you’ve earned?

lol

If in your opinion skins represent skill then you're DEFINITELY not the one people should be listening to.

BalticBlues

BalticBlues wrote: »

I also needed Stonekeeper for the new wave of ULTI-HIGH-DAMAGE-ONE-SHOT DLCs where tanks die losing just one single block. You often have to block so much that there is no time for heavy attacks. If they nerf the Stonekeeper regen, I just cannot pug anymore. Then I only can run with the best (friends and guildies) where I can rely on synergies...

Calypso589 wrote: »

What's your excuse for people who don't wear Stonekeeper who do survive all these one-shots?

These people probably only play with CP810-friends/guildies where they can rely on synergies, not CPxxx pugs.

Calypso589 wrote: »

This is a L2P issue, you're describing.
There's always time to do a heavy or two.

No, sometimes in vDLC and Trials, you need to keep a block, at least in HM.
Sometimes you only may have time to pick up a synergy, not a full heavy attack.

btw: You seem to have a very high opinion about yourself.
But if only god-like-players as you are able to finish content, most people will stop playing this content.
For me as just a good player, the consequence of the tank-set-nerfs will be that I have to stop pugging newer vDLC.

Iron_Blurr

I prefer to focus on the facts that stonekeeper was not over performing and so was not deserving of a nerf in the first place.
There are valid points to be made about other players being able to do content without stonekeeper. And top end pve or pvp players were not even using stonekeeper. I cant think of a single hm trial ive tanked where stonekeeper was required to be able to clear it. But that's not the point.
The point is that stonekeeper was not hurting anyone and it was not over performing. The main reasons why stonekeeper was used were to help tanks in training learn to manage resources better, or to be self sufficient when the rest of the group was not offering a synergy for the tank. Other niche applications could possibly be when solo tanking vAa hm without synergies in a group with low dps meaning you get tons of axes. Perhaps another situation is tanking final boss of vDsa where the tank typically takes all the mini bosses and leaves the group to kill the main boss.
Stonekeeper never caused problems in pvp or pve. It was not over powered and pretty much only represented a minor quality of life improvement set for tanks.

Why it was nerfed is beyond me.

montiferus

Some sets were not nerfed at all and were in fact buffed (Balorgh, Skoria, Maw, Tremor, etc) which in and of itself points to their complete incompetence with regard to "balance".

For those sets that were nerfed I think its pretty clear they want to push people toward the mind numbing grind for Antiquities. Which from everything ive seen the majority of the player base will not want to do.

So in typical fashion its a complete cluster....

Iron_Blurr

To be fair some of the changes they made are pretty nice. But others are just weird like the way they removed the dual procs on llambris. Was that hurting someone? Was that overpowered in some way? If you want to buff the damage just do it. They dont always need to do this whole kiss/curse thing when balancing sets. They could have easily buffed llambris by quite a bit and it still wouldn't touch the dps of something like zaan or even maw of infernal on a sorc. And that's before factoring in the fact that they buffed maw and zaan.

Calypso589

@BalticBlues These people probably only play with CP810-friends/guildies where they can rely on synergies, not CPxxx pugs.

Not really.

Lemme be clear, it's a mistake to place all of your reliance on synergies OR a monster set to be able to sustain yourself.

CP has nothing to do with synergy consistency. I'm not magically receiving more synergies from an 810 then I would a 450.

No, sometimes in vDLC and Trials, you need to keep a block, at least in HM.
Sometimes you only may have time to pick up a synergy, not a full heavy attack.

There's time for either/or. You, the player, just need to learn to identify when those times are because they are there. There is no boss in this game that is attacking you 100% of the time.

btw: You seem to have a very high opinion about yourself.

For me as just a good player, the consequence of the tank-set-nerfs will be that I have to stop pugging newer vDLC.

It's veteran. It's supposed to be hard. A single monster set should not be the thing that makes or breaks your ability to perform at that level.

If it is, then you're managing your resources poorly.

Stonkeeper getting nerfed is just going to shine a brighter light on that fact.

BalticBlues

Calypso589 wrote: »

It's 4 pages of the same 3 or 4 people talking.

Look again. Most of the last pages are coming just from you.

Calypso589 wrote: »

There's a vast amount of people that agree with one another on the idea that the earth is flat

Sorry, but to me it seems more like there is this one guy who believes the world is spinning all around him.

Let me guess, you are probably in your 20's, you are a fast thinker and you play video games better than most people do. However, imagine, no matter what you will do and how good you are now, even a gaming-god like you will be aging, and when you will be in your 50's some day, and when you got slower, and when you then meet that one guy in his 20's who tells you to think faster, you will recognize that most of the world does not consist of people in their prime.

Finally: Even being an old guy, I can do vDLC content with my CP810 friends. However, in a LOWER CP pug which is not burning through the content, there is a limit of what a tank can hold. Holding a ONE-SHOT-BOSS alone may still be ok with the nerfed tank sets, but holding a ONE-SHOT-BOSS plus x mobs will be not. There is a LIMIT for all of us tanks, and if ZOS now reduces what we can hold as tank by lowering our resources, it reduces the amount of LOWER CP people we can pug with.

Instead of "lowering the gap", as ZOS announced, by nerfing Tanks in PvE ZOS is raising the gap. To a point where CP810 people just won't PUG vDLC anymore or kick lower CP players from it.