So despite overwhelmingly negative response...
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jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »relentless_turnip wrote: »I wouldn't say the feedback has been a consensus of negative feedback.
Vampires are really strong, go and build one on the PTS. You do need to build a vampire though, you won't be able to pick and choose skills they will need to mainly be vampire skills. This is true for werewolves too, but recovery isn't an issue at all.
I did extensively test it....
If is so great and versatile then ZOS should rework WW’ again from the new changes. Make it function just like the new vampy with cost increase plus the penalties. It would be fitting since they are both afflictions.
I am pretty sure the forums reaction would be very different then.
Before the PTS people already showed their biased opinions on vampires and how they hated them.
Lots of those people are on here commenting and certainly I doubt they tested much of anything.
Show of hands, which Healer or DPS would like to add an extra 20% Skill Cost to their rotation? Don't be shy.
Then don't be a vampire. It really is that simple.1 -
RedReign✭✭✭✭I think people have a misunderstanding of what feedback means. Asking for feedback doesn't mean accepting that feedback. And in the case of the vampire change, the feedback people are offering is feedback that basically reverts the changes to make the vampire just passive things that provide no setbacks for using. A thing they are intentionally trying to avoid by making the changes. When the feedback is "Don't do this because I like the broken way it works now," the feedback is hardly useful.
Feedback that does help is "this skill doesn't work properly" or "there is a bug here." But people don't want change, they want to reap the benefits of a skill line without any negatives. So any amount of change or fix that is implemented that doesn't go to this extreme is going to be viewed as "ZOS just doesn't listen to feedback." Which is a blatant lie.
If they aren't accepting feedback then they shouldn't ask for it. You can defend it all you want but no amount of white knighting will make you right.
Not accepting all feedback does not mean not accepting any feedback. Just because a person has feedback doesn't make the feedback good. Not all feedback is good and not all feedback is valid or useful. Expecting them to just accept all feedback in order for their feedback process to be valid is just delusional.
Wed all be happy if they accepted any feedback to be honest. Let me guess, the only "good" feedback is blind praise?
If they ask for feedback and almost everyone testing agrees that they've made a mistake itd take a fool to just outright refuse to listen.0 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Show of hands, which Healer or DPS would like to add an extra 20% Skill Cost to their rotation? Don't be shy.
Looks left
Looks right
Not me but I do like the added spell damage of Blood Frenzy, but it costs health to use. Sometimes its better to have a tool for every job than to have a skill that increases your healing power. After healing 20+ Veteran City of ash runs to get a BSW inferno staff ((Which I still don't have)) my most efficient and fun healing set ups ended up using the most powerful, and cheapest, skills I could get my hands on.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK1 -
Canned_Apples✭✭✭✭✭
✭If they truly only want people to use vampire skills- then they should have given them a better kit. Burst heal is what’s needed most.
As it stands now, the only viable option is to set up an ult building build, and then ascend to stage five using bone Goliath.2 -
RedReign✭✭✭✭Notes posted and its surprisingly much much muccch better for vampire. Though I still dislike the -100% health recovery the overall changes are fantastic. Well done ZoS!3
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Nagastani✭✭✭✭xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »relentless_turnip wrote: »I wouldn't say the feedback has been a consensus of negative feedback.
Vampires are really strong, go and build one on the PTS. You do need to build a vampire though, you won't be able to pick and choose skills they will need to mainly be vampire skills. This is true for werewolves too, but recovery isn't an issue at all.
I did extensively test it....
If is so great and versatile then ZOS should rework WW’ again from the new changes. Make it function just like the new vampy with cost increase plus the penalties. It would be fitting since they are both afflictions.
I am pretty sure the forums reaction would be very different then.
Before the PTS people already showed their biased opinions on vampires and how they hated them.
Lots of those people are on here commenting and certainly I doubt they tested much of anything.
Show of hands, which Healer or DPS would like to add an extra 20% Skill Cost to their rotation? Don't be shy.
Then don't be a vampire. It really is that simple.
Dude that doesn't cut it ... we can do better. That's the same as telling people don't play the game. I'm thankful the devs are listening to us and have made progress on cleaning up the skill cost. However they would not have noticed it was an issue if someone else did not care to say something first. Obviously they felt it was an issue along with the rest of us.Edited by Nagastani on May 11, 2020 7:18PM0 -
Nagastani✭✭✭✭
Show of hands, which Healer or DPS would like to add an extra 20% Skill Cost to their rotation? Don't be shy.
Looks left
Looks right
Not me but I do like the added spell damage of Blood Frenzy, but it costs health to use. Sometimes its better to have a tool for every job than to have a skill that increases your healing power. After healing 20+ Veteran City of ash runs to get a BSW inferno staff ((Which I still don't have)) my most efficient and fun healing set ups ended up using the most powerful, and cheapest, skills I could get my hands on.
Ok yeah it just depends on your situation but I agree.0 -
Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I tested on PTS and gave detailed feedback. NOTHING is really world ending here, since things can always be reversed and things evolve, but the feedback isn't black and white.
Concerns about the cost increase include the contradiction of what seems to be encouragement of feeding but then extremely strong penalties for higher stages (making one feel less powerful as you advance, not more so), how certain concepts like vampire tanks, healers, hybrids, and stamina dd's are less viable (which to many, myself included, make the game less fun), how the penalties seem to encourage a "full vampire build" but key concepts are missing from the toolkit to make that work (like aoe damage or a group heal), and a desire by some to look like a vampire without having the penalties or benefits (which I am less concerned with but would support and is no less a valid request than anything else).
And that's just my summary of what I have seen for the cost increases... not to mention other aspects for which there is also a lot of feedback. It is too bad that people give feedback like "ZOS, you crazy" instead of logically explaining why some of the changes aren't positive ones for their play syles. That helps nothing. But that doesn't mean some of the well- thought- out feedback about the cost penalties isn't valid, just because some of the feedback is emotional and says the sky is falling.
That's exactly my point. You can give a logical, well thought out response to something like the cost increase, but if it's buried under a lot of overreaction then there's a good chance it's going to be dismissed along with everything else."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It seems that there's no intention of changing anything about the way vampire works in Greymoor currently. Is this correct? If so it seems a bit odd that we were even asked for feedback.
So despite overwhelming negative response they did actually change the vampire skill one some today. Guess it helps to wait one day until the patch notes actually come out.2 -
RedReign✭✭✭✭It seems that there's no intention of changing anything about the way vampire works in Greymoor currently. Is this correct? If so it seems a bit odd that we were even asked for feedback.
So despite overwhelming negative response they did actually change the vampire skill one some today. Guess it helps to wait one day until the patch notes actually come out.
The third round of patch notes since the complaints began flooding in and after absolute silence in their part the entire time you mean?8 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It seems that there's no intention of changing anything about the way vampire works in Greymoor currently. Is this correct? If so it seems a bit odd that we were even asked for feedback.
So despite overwhelming negative response they did actually change the vampire skill one some today. Guess it helps to wait one day until the patch notes actually come out.
The third round of patch notes since the complaints began flooding in and after absolute silence in their part the entire time you mean?
The way the PTS has worked every patch. It's almost like the PTS is a 4 week process so that they can introduce different changes at different times after internal work is done to implement those changes.1 -
peacenote✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I tested on PTS and gave detailed feedback. NOTHING is really world ending here, since things can always be reversed and things evolve, but the feedback isn't black and white.
Concerns about the cost increase include the contradiction of what seems to be encouragement of feeding but then extremely strong penalties for higher stages (making one feel less powerful as you advance, not more so), how certain concepts like vampire tanks, healers, hybrids, and stamina dd's are less viable (which to many, myself included, make the game less fun), how the penalties seem to encourage a "full vampire build" but key concepts are missing from the toolkit to make that work (like aoe damage or a group heal), and a desire by some to look like a vampire without having the penalties or benefits (which I am less concerned with but would support and is no less a valid request than anything else).
And that's just my summary of what I have seen for the cost increases... not to mention other aspects for which there is also a lot of feedback. It is too bad that people give feedback like "ZOS, you crazy" instead of logically explaining why some of the changes aren't positive ones for their play syles. That helps nothing. But that doesn't mean some of the well- thought- out feedback about the cost penalties isn't valid, just because some of the feedback is emotional and says the sky is falling.
How do you expect people to give constructive feedback, we're not all game developers and mathematical geniouses. A big part of people are giving positive feedback, but they have no interest in endgame pve/pvp, so their feedback is clueless too.
I agree with you tho that the cost increase is pretty irrelevant. Even if they remove the cost increase penalty and leave the reduce buff, what on earth are you actually gonna do with a full bar of vampire skills + ulti? Roleplay? But as i said I cannot offer a solution, because it's not easy to wrap your head around everything and theorycraft something viable.
The current itteration offers a spammable replacement for some classes, and maybe the toggle for others in PvE.
You could probably fit ulti, the CC, the spammable and mist form in a pvp build, but for me personally that would still feel like a regular class with supporting vampire abilities, not a vampire that gets supported by class abilities.
All I meant was that feedback where people say "devs you stink, this is nonsense, why are you doing such a bad job" is problematic because someone mentioned that a lot of feedback is personally insulting. Bashing is, I think, the forum term when it is moderated. I was also trying to make the point that valid feedback sometimes gets dismissed if it happens to be the same criticisms as someone who was giving bashing feedback and that causes issues as well.
Example:
Person A: This cost increase is nonsensical!! I'm not wasting my time testing this as it clearly will be horrible. Devs why did you come up with such a bad idea?
Person B: This cost increase is problematic for me on my sorc build and so I think it should be reduced.
Person C: Everyone who criticizes the cost increases are whiners who haven't tested on PTS. The changes are GREAT for my NB tank!!!
Person A's feedback is unhelpful. Person B's feedback is valid. Person C's feedback is written in such a way that Person B's feedback is glossed over, because they are generalizing that ALL people who object are doing so for nonsensical reasons, and folks in a hurry will see all the comments by Person A and conclude that Person C is correct. Potential issue with sorcs never gets checked.
I don't think we all have to theorycraft and in fact the feedback you just gave seems helpful.
Edited by peacenote on May 11, 2020 11:41PM4 -
ZOS_VolpeadminGreetings,
We have recently removed some unnecessary back and forth from this thread. Please remember that while it’s alright to disagree or even debate with each other, provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable on our forums.The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
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Moose_Scout✭✭✭ZOS has no need for feedback. Veteran players who know the mechanics better than the staff are just getting in the way of new pretty content and crown crate sale. It doesn't matter if that content works, there will be a new DLC soon to make more money on.
But yes, the vampire seems like a 1/2 finished project at this point. But the deadline is too close and they just gonna launch.
...I remember when ZOS used to try and explain decisions to the community. I am fine with change but we need to know reasons behind changes too."What a Grand and Intoxicating Innocence"4 -
Fruity_Ninja✭✭✭It seems that there's no intention of changing anything about the way vampire works in Greymoor currently. Is this correct? If so it seems a bit odd that we were even asked for feedback.
So despite overwhelming negative response they did actually change the vampire skill one some today. Guess it helps to wait one day until the patch notes actually come out.
The third round of patch notes since the complaints began flooding in and after absolute silence in their part the entire time you mean?
I think that's what it is, the silence. They just aren't talking to us on the forum as much as they used to and keeping us in the loop.
I guess I understand why from the aspect that people complain about every little thing non stop, often in a non-constructive manner. So they probably feel like they can never win with us.
But having said that, it's still important to interact with your community and talk to us about the feedback they've asked us to give on the PTS.
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