Make Werewolf a TOGGLE

Iron_Blurr

Werewolf is looking good so far but I wish it was a toggle so you could maintain the form indefinitely. Make the ultimate cost 300 and toggle on and off the werewolf form with an unlimited duration. Werewolf would actually make sense at that point as a sort of new class in the game with its own independent identity. This change would also allow the devs to be more creative with passives and get away from the whole duration increasing abilities and passives. Currently the biggest issue with Werewolf is simply why bother running it at all when you sacrifice an ultimate that can be fired and forgotten allowing you to still perform your regular rotation. The current system of werewolf makes you have to use sets to optimize your dps in werewolf form but it lowers your dps in your regular form. This dps loss makes werewolf not worth it overall. Also werewolf becomes difficult to maintain in pve trials because there are periods of "down" time where you are running from fight to fight and not actively engaging in combat meaning your werewolf form will end and you will revert back to your sub-par human dps self.

Make werewolf a toggle that costs 300+ ult and suddenly players dont have to choose between optimizing their human form dps and their werewolf form dps. This also allows them to have a permanent place in groups as the designated Minor Courage provider for the group. That frees up a set on tanks instead of tanks being required to run Yolnakrin.

With these simple changes werewolves will basically be a new playable class in ESO and have a place in raid teams with their own builds and optimized setups.

BlissfulDeluge

I approve of this. Could maybe tie it into the Savior's Hide set, to make it persistent.

ccfeeling

Ww build without ww form, its actually a trash, i dont wanna talk much, the combat team need to spend much more time in the game, especially hard contents.

There are many contents limited the WW transformation, thats why vampire is always better.

I think they dont even know what im talking about

GrumpyDuckling

BlissfulDelusions wrote: »

I approve of this. Could maybe tie it into the Savior's Hide set, to make it persistent.

I like this idea. It would allow ZOS to meet players halfway (players have wanted a toggle for years, but it was always a request that was ignored). But, having to actually build for staying in Werewolf form, via a set that allows you to toggle, is a cool idea.

You want to fully devote yourself to Hircine and become one with the beast? Okay great, wear his themed armor and receive the benefits bestowed upon you.

Qbiken

No ty, ww shouldn't be something you just "transform and forget"( which is basically what a toggle is) and outside of some small changes and bug fixes that hopefully will get changed in pts, ww is looking good. Doesn't need to rework the foundations of the playstyle itself.

Alucardo

ccfeeling wrote: »

Ww build without ww form, its actually a trash, i dont wanna talk much, the combat team need to spend much more time in the game, especially hard contents.

There are many contents limited the WW transformation, thats why vampire is always better.

I think they dont even know what im talking about

Yes, in general people build around the fact that they are a Werewolf, so outside of WW form they can't do much but spam heroic to get their ult up faster. Then you have sets like Salvation that gives you WW 33% faster, but it gives you no bonuses in your human form, apart from the basic stam and recovery 4pc.
I don't know if they'd ever make WW a toggle, but I do love my WW (it's the whole reason I bought ESO in the first place), so I wouldn't argue against it for sure.

Noxavian

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

Werewolf is looking good so far but I wish it was a toggle so you could maintain the form indefinitely. Make the ultimate cost 300 and toggle on and off the werewolf form with an unlimited duration. Werewolf would actually make sense at that point as a sort of new class in the game with its own independent identity. This change would also allow the devs to be more creative with passives and get away from the whole duration increasing abilities and passives. Currently the biggest issue with Werewolf is simply why bother running it at all when you sacrifice an ultimate that can be fired and forgotten allowing you to still perform your regular rotation. The current system of werewolf makes you have to use sets to optimize your dps in werewolf form but it lowers your dps in your regular form. This dps loss makes werewolf not worth it overall. Also werewolf becomes difficult to maintain in pve trials because there are periods of "down" time where you are running from fight to fight and not actively engaging in combat meaning your werewolf form will end and you will revert back to your sub-par human dps self.

Make werewolf a toggle that costs 300+ ult and suddenly players dont have to choose between optimizing their human form dps and their werewolf form dps. This also allows them to have a permanent place in groups as the designated Minor Courage provider for the group. That frees up a set on tanks instead of tanks being required to run Yolnakrin.

With these simple changes werewolves will basically be a new playable class in ESO and have a place in raid teams with their own builds and optimized setups.

If werewolves get a toggle then vampire lord should get a toggle too.

Faulgor

Qbiken wrote: »

No ty, ww shouldn't be something you just "transform and forget"( which is basically what a toggle is) and outside of some small changes and bug fixes that hopefully will get changed in pts, ww is looking good. Doesn't need to rework the foundations of the playstyle itself.

Agreed. That you have to feed / attack to sustain your form is a vital part of the whole WW gameplay. Otherwise it's just a polymorph with less skills.

Chrlynsch

What about?

Every second you spend devouring a corpse adds 3 seconds to the duration of your Werewolf Transformation, restores 8% of your Max Health, and reduces the cost of your next werewolf transformation by 5 ultimate. Each corpse can be devoured for up to 4 seconds.

Devour 15 corpses fully and you will gain a free transformation.

Tommy_The_Gun

If they would change WW to toggle - it would be a total trash (worse than it is now on live) as they will have to adjust (nerf) all WW skills, passives & overall power level. There would be no reason to transform other than RP.

Nirntrotter

+1 for a toggle. Or a useful set that would allow you to actually play a WW and not a fickle, frankly stressful synergy minigame. Or a buff food. SOMETHING that makes all the effort of building around WW pay off instead of reducing it to ult grind and stressing about your next feed. Personally I would GLADLY sacrifice some damage potential to be able to play as a WW properly.

I really don't get this cognitive dissonance of saying "oh WW is an ultimate and should be temporary and powerful" and at the same time treating it like its own class, with its own dedicated WW feedback thread and what not. Either make WW a powerful limited ult that doesn't completely cripple your character everywhere else, or let us play it as a pseudo-class. Preferably the latter as far as I am concerned.

Alucardo

At the very least the duration should pause when you're in combat. There's nothing worse than having it run out as you slowly transform back into human form while still getting bashed on.

Kilcosu

once you have a fluid pve rotation for the times you are not in werewolf form whether it be from downtime on a boss or just starting the dungeon, it's a lot better experience.

you do lose a noticeable percentage of damage but it's far from useless. I'd rather just be able to build ultimate in form than have a toggle

HoyaCarnosa

Noxavian wrote: »

If werewolves get a toggle then vampire lord should get a toggle too.

Yes, why not? (and could someone from ZOS please write "whoosh" or something like that not so serious here so i know they read it?(yes, yes i have hope that they read this thread.)) I had some ideas in other threads (and i read many threads about ww toggle, even before i started playing the game) as example for my ideas, so that you can decide your playstyle:

HoyaCarnosa wrote: »

Yes Mythic items for healers are missing, hope they bring more over time.

I hope they bring roleplay / fun mythic items ,not just serious ones.

For roleplay they could bring rings for vampires / werewolfes:

Hircine´s cursed ring : Hircine cursed this ring as a challange for his greatest hunter: he should proof that a werewolf is ALWAYS stronger than the oponent as long as he is transformed, so he created this ring that it may weaken the werewolf form and transfered the energy taken from the werewolf into the ring, wich in exchange granted the werewolf to stay transformed as long as they want, so they could proof they are the ultimate hunter even if they are weakened through the ring (losing nearly all bonus stats while transformed) / Lamae Bal´s ring: well for this ring the same, you also lose nearly all positive bonus conditions (like seeing through walls).

(how even does a guard now that you are the ww when you run transformed past them, as long as they dont see you transform you should not get a bounty, they should attack you yes, but a bounty normally can only be given when it is known that the ww is YOU, i mean: it could even be a guard wich transformed, so how did the guard know it was you?)

For fun items it think about visuals (maybe blood dripping from your hands / weapon) or sound based, like when an opponent dodges your attack your weapon will scream "NOOO", or it wants to give you advice how "not to stand in red circles" (could get annoying over time, but as long as you are the only person wich hears the weapon talk it could be funny).

And i even made a thread about it where i suggested an idea how to implement it as normal gameplay mechanic, but sadly it had not the attention i hoped for ( i think most players that are hoping for a toggle have given up, but i sometimes read about it in zone chat, there are more than some of you think), here is a link, (since i dont want to push it to keep it alive):

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/522172/greymoor-transformation-toggle-crown-crates-little-things#latest

(edited for: oh and i wish we would get a "howl to the moon / blood moon" memento where you summon the moons and howl even if you are not a ww and maybe a downgraded memento where you dont summon the moons and just howl.)

Iron_Blurr

Faulgor wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

No ty, ww shouldn't be something you just "transform and forget"( which is basically what a toggle is) and outside of some small changes and bug fixes that hopefully will get changed in pts, ww is looking good. Doesn't need to rework the foundations of the playstyle itself.

Agreed. That you have to feed / attack to sustain your form is a vital part of the whole WW gameplay. Otherwise it's just a polymorph with less skills.

Use some imagination.. They could give an incentive for feeding with a buff that lasts X amount of seconds after feeding or something else. So you would WANT to feed but not necessarily HAVE to. As far as staying in combat it's simple. The more you attack the more ferocious you become. Make it something akin to siroria or relequen where the more you attack you gain some kind of buff to damage. In this case the damage buff would be on you rather than on the floor like siroria or on the target like spell strat or relequen.
There are ways that the devs could make werewolves a toggle while still giving incentives for the aggressive playstyle that you want. Personally i find feeding and maintaining form as a chore and not a fun or rewarding gameplay experience. And i suspect 99% of the playerbase agrees with me since there are very few werewolf players in the game. Even fewer in the end game community..

Iron_Blurr

Faulgor wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

No ty, ww shouldn't be something you just "transform and forget"( which is basically what a toggle is) and outside of some small changes and bug fixes that hopefully will get changed in pts, ww is looking good. Doesn't need to rework the foundations of the playstyle itself.

Agreed. That you have to feed / attack to sustain your form is a vital part of the whole WW gameplay. Otherwise it's just a polymorph with less skills.

And evidently like 99% of the playerbase dont LIKE the gameplay of being a werewolf. That's why most of them are vampires. So that's not a very strong argument.. But if you're saying that it's a cool idea for the devs to give incentives to keep up and aggressive playstyle and keep feeding as a werewolf i would agree with you. My issue is that you should not have to do that to maintain your form. It could be tied to a buff or some benefits you get for keeping up the pressure and staying aggressive. There are many ways to incentivize playstyle and gameplay but I think the devs have chosen the absolute worst one. It turns feeding into a chore rather than something you should enjoy. It also doesn't work so well in Cyrodil since players can respawn at keeps to prevent werewolves from feeding on them. These issues would be solved by making it a toggle.

peacenote

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

No ty, ww shouldn't be something you just "transform and forget"( which is basically what a toggle is) and outside of some small changes and bug fixes that hopefully will get changed in pts, ww is looking good. Doesn't need to rework the foundations of the playstyle itself.

Agreed. That you have to feed / attack to sustain your form is a vital part of the whole WW gameplay. Otherwise it's just a polymorph with less skills.

And evidently like 99% of the playerbase dont LIKE the gameplay of being a werewolf. That's why most of them are vampires. So that's not a very strong argument.. But if you're saying that it's a cool idea for the devs to give incentives to keep up and aggressive playstyle and keep feeding as a werewolf i would agree with you. My issue is that you should not have to do that to maintain your form. It could be tied to a buff or some benefits you get for keeping up the pressure and staying aggressive. There are many ways to incentivize playstyle and gameplay but I think the devs have chosen the absolute worst one. It turns feeding into a chore rather than something you should enjoy. It also doesn't work so well in Cyrodil since players can respawn at keeps to prevent werewolves from feeding on them. These issues would be solved by making it a toggle.

I agree with this. I actually am in favor of the toggle idea. I get very very frustrated with werewolf. I want to look like one in screenshots and it is a big pain. I lose my form if there are pauses in dungeons. It makes you feel like you can never stop and read a note or loot a barrel. I have never enjoyed it and I wish that feeding gave you some kind of benefit but if the form was a toggle; that would be awesome.

Or it would be cool if feeding put you into a stage for x amount of hours (like vampire) but you could x out and dismiss it like pets and un-transform.

If a lot of people like it the way it is, certainly I can just keep not playing werewolf. But I'd enjoy the toggle, personally.

bmnoble

Just make it so once you transform, after the set duration expires it constantly drains ultimate, if your ultimate hits zero the transformation ends, that way you have to keep fighting to maintain the WW form and can't transform again right away since you have to generate the required ultimate once again.

Iron_Blurr

bmnoble wrote: »

Just make it so once you transform, after the set duration expires it constantly drains ultimate, if your ultimate hits zero the transformation ends, that way you have to keep fighting to maintain the WW form and can't transform again right away since you have to generate the required ultimate once again.

Help me understand why exactly you want werewolf form to end by a duration. Why cant it just consume all ultimate and prevent you from gaining any ult until you revert back to human form? Let's say it costs 300 ult. You build that and consume it all to enter WW form. At that point you are stuck at 0 ultimate until you return to your human form and are able to build ult again. Why are people so attached to the idea of werewolf having all these hoops you have to jump through just to maintain the form? Werewolves do less dps than a normal build. They have no ranged abilities. They take more damage from poison and fighters guild abilities. You cant even talk to vendors or other NPC as a werewolf. You cant even show yourself in a town without getting a bounty as a werewolf. So as you can see werewolf already has quite a few drawbacks. Is werewolf powerful enough to justify these drawbacks? No not really..
So Either we make WW form insanely OP to justify it having these weaknesses or make it a long lasting form. If WW form gets a huge buff they will be very OP in cyrodil. There just isn't much wiggle room to buff werewolf without making them insanely over powered. So why not just remove the duration and let them be a pseudo class on their own? The thing is right now they are not powerful enough to justify the limited duration.

HoyaCarnosa

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

Use some imagination.. They could give an incentive for feeding with a buff that lasts X amount of seconds after feeding or something else. So you would WANT to feed but not necessarily HAVE to. As far as staying in combat it's simple. The more you attack the more ferocious you become. Make it something akin to siroria or relequen where the more you attack you gain some kind of buff to damage. In this case the damage buff would be on you rather than on the floor like siroria or on the target like spell strat or relequen.
There are ways that the devs could make werewolves a toggle while still giving incentives for the aggressive playstyle that you want. Personally i find feeding and maintaining form as a chore and not a fun or rewarding gameplay experience. And i suspect 99% of the playerbase agrees with me since there are very few werewolf players in the game. Even fewer in the end game community..

Iron_Blurr wrote: »

And evidently like 99% of the playerbase dont LIKE the gameplay of being a werewolf. That's why most of them are vampires. So that's not a very strong argument.. But if you're saying that it's a cool idea for the devs to give incentives to keep up and aggressive playstyle and keep feeding as a werewolf i would agree with you. My issue is that you should not have to do that to maintain your form. It could be tied to a buff or some benefits you get for keeping up the pressure and staying aggressive. There are many ways to incentivize playstyle and gameplay but I think the devs have chosen the absolute worst one. It turns feeding into a chore rather than something you should enjoy. It also doesn't work so well in Cyrodil since players can respawn at keeps to prevent werewolves from feeding on them. These issues would be solved by making it a toggle.

YES, yes this so much, use your ultimate to transform, gain no ultimate while transformed, begin "weak" (with normal player strenght) and if you feed on a slain enemie gain x amount of x buff, so if you kill more and play aggressive you get stronger, but play carefully ( maybe we finally get a sneak option on werewolf, pretty please ? ) and your buff will run out after x amount of time (but you stay ww, you just need to feed again), it would REALLY fit perfect for a "wild beast". (AND would open the door for cosmetic options, we have many "naturally coloured" wolf mounts that i could see as skins.) The justice system would not allow werewolfes in towns, so no problem there.