Asylum Destro Staff change

Draxys

This week’s patch notes were not very robust, so perhaps they are saving this and other changes for week 4? We can hope to see a 2 cast asylum staff next week, right @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler ??

MLGProPlayer

Draxys wrote: »

This week’s patch notes were not very robust, so perhaps they are saving this and other changes for week 4? We can hope to see a 2 cast asylum staff next week, right @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler ??

Past PTS cycles have shown that whatever changes they make in the first set of notes are usually the changes we end up with. They largely ignore tester feedback. Beta in this game only serves as a marketing tool.

Olupajmibanan

Another patch day, another chance to save AS destro.

According to usual PTS schedule, this should be the patch with small changes, but we can still hope, can't we? Just a small change of making it every 2nd cast instead of every 3rd means difference between situationaly useful item and deconstruct on drop item.

colossalvoids

Hopes are already under the ground low but one can hope for a bit of sanity.

daemonor

Well so far all the notes were less than miniscule, unless last week counted as the big change week? So #pray4asylumdestro

Cravalllo

Quite disappointing that ZOS is constantly ignoring player feedback.

The truth is, Magicka DKs have only been viable because of the bug coming with this item. Making sustaining much easier and boosting the otherwise poor damage of magDKs. Nerfing this item into the ground only shows that the class has severe issues without these items, on top of that, it will be useless for anyone else, too (It only had a very limited use anyways).

I really hope they do revert the changes with the perfected Asylum Staff and leave it with the bug fix, that by itself will make the item much less powerful for magDKs. The added spell dmg will not even compensate that, but let´s just see what happens.

Olupajmibanan

Cravalllo wrote: »

Quite disappointing that ZOS is constantly ignoring player feedback.

The truth is, Magicka DKs have only been viable because of the bug coming with this item. Making sustaining much easier and boosting the otherwise poor damage of magDKs. Nerfing this item into the ground only shows that the class has severe issues without these items, on top of that, it will be useless for anyone else, too (It only had a very limited use anyways).

I really hope they do revert the changes with the perfected Asylum Staff and leave it with the bug fix, that by itself will make the item much less powerful for magDKs. The added spell dmg will not even compensate that, but let´s just see what happens.

You know what triggers me the most? Perfect Asylum Inferno on a magDK was plain broken but only and only thanks to burning proc bug. So instead of fixing the bug and then letting us test how is the situation after the bugfix and spell damage bonus, they somehow decided to not give us the possibility and simply butcher it right away with additional double nerf.

Like if they were "Hey, let's see, our spreadsheet shows that Perfect AS inferno is overused on magDKs. That's a problem isn't it? Ok, let's fix the bug which makes it OP and then add an additional double nerf on top of that (reduced time frame to 5 seconds, increased proc condition to 3 casts) so we will never have to bother with changing this weapon anymore. To calm down the outrage, we add 109 SD* set bonus. That's more than they deserve from us."

*even less than standard set bonus

furiouslog

Zalathorm wrote: »

There is a heavy opportunity cost to equipping a unique front bar weapon

You cant run 5/5 and a monster set.

I highly doubt their item power level equations considers this fact.

Please revert back to 2 casts as it is on live. The fix to burning procs and reduction to 5 seconds instead of 10 is enough to tone it down.

MagDKs were rare in PVE before this last patch. Lets keep them around.

The MagDK has become OP in PvE due to Elfbane mixed with this. I agree that it's cool that there is another meta for this class other than PFG/MS, but if you look at the ESOLog leaderboards, it's crazy how ubiquitous MagDK has become as the current go-to for raw DPS output. I also think it sucks that they nerfed it so hard. But what's the solution to balancing it all?

Maulkin

furiouslog wrote: »

Zalathorm wrote: »

There is a heavy opportunity cost to equipping a unique front bar weapon

You cant run 5/5 and a monster set.

I highly doubt their item power level equations considers this fact.

Please revert back to 2 casts as it is on live. The fix to burning procs and reduction to 5 seconds instead of 10 is enough to tone it down.

MagDKs were rare in PVE before this last patch. Lets keep them around.

The MagDK has become OP in PvE due to Elfbane mixed with this. I agree that it's cool that there is another meta for this class other than PFG/MS, but if you look at the ESOLog leaderboards, it's crazy how ubiquitous MagDK has become as the current go-to for raw DPS output. I also think it sucks that they nerfed it so hard. But what's the solution to balancing it all?

Mixed with a bug you mean?

Your question seems like a very easy one to answer for me. Perhaps because I personally don't particularly care about the item itself, but more about what happens to MagDKs.

And the answer is:
a) Reduce the cost of some ridiculously expensive DK skills (*cough* Eruption *cough*) so they don't rely on burning proc bugs and other gimmicks to sustain
b) Buff DoTs slightly from their current extremely nerfed state, to increase class the dps by a few k.

ElfBane MagDK is a melee fricking class, one with a 9-skill dynamic rotation to boot. It shouldn't need gimmicks to compete with the other top-tier melee classes like stamplars, stamcros and stamsorcs. Especially not when most of them have a 4-5 skill piece of pi** rotation that you could do with your eyes closed. Without Asylum it's hard to drive more than 85k dps out of the class whereas you can easily go over 90k on a stamplar just spamming Jabs. What gives?

Fix those ridiculous imbalances and few will moan about the crutch being removed.

Ezhh

Maulkin wrote: »

Fix those ridiculous imbalances and few will moan about the crutch being removed.

I definitely agree with adressing issues, but this isn't just about magDKs. At the moment other classes can, situationally, use Asylum destro as a valid alternative to MS/PFG. Those classes don't have the magDK burning proc issue but are going to lose Asylum destro as a valid option.

I like variety. I like having more than one set up I can run without taking a major damage loss for it. Fewer options that fit the content I do in the groups I do that content = a more boring game for me. Maybe I will be among that "few" you mention, but just the same I see no good argument for removing options.

The answer is fix the issue unique to magDKs AND don't reduce Asylum destro to another piece of decon trash.

Anhedonie

Yeah, it seems like if there are no changes in today's patch, then we might have even less build variety (that is already very minuscule in pve, mind you). Don't play magdk, but would be sad to see this happen.

Olupajmibanan

Anhedonie wrote: »

Yeah, it seems like if there are no changes in today's patch, then we might have even less build variety (that is already very minuscule in pve, mind you). Don't play magdk, but would be sad to see this happen.

Sadly magDKs are used to not being invited over stamina classes. Only Asylum burning bug changed that and that was for only like two patches? Back to garaging our magDKs I guess and sadly, even changing Asylum back to 2 Force Shocks won't change that.

But we should hardask for the change anyways, because there is zero need to completely destroy the set for all non-DKs that found it useful.

Olupajmibanan

Reading those 6.0.3 patch notes, chances of Asylum going LIVE (or better said DEAD) like this increased from 95 to 98%.

iCaliban

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Reading those 6.0.3 patch notes, chances of Asylum going LIVE (or better said DEAD) like this increased from 95 to 98%.

Last pts cycle pretty much never has changes. Asylum is done.

ELawlis

I’ve seen at least 5 different threads on the staff alone with no response.

Besides Loving/Hating on the vampire changes, the two common themes of the PTS are: 1. Make the Asylum Destro Staff at least an option; and 2. The new trial sets are a joke and need major adjustments. Beyond that it’s “nerf/buff this thing because I like it/hate it”.

The only response has been to make changes to vamps which will be money maker from new players this patch (not surprised if it’s STRONGLY featured as available for purchase on Greymoor release day), while the actual community is ignored. The overturned HA change to Roaring Opportunist still hasn’t been fixed and will require a miracle for most classes to get decent uptime, and while the bug on the destro needed fixed, the “unique” effect being the lowest value is nonsense.

colossalvoids

So i can safely respec 3 more chars to dedicated crafters now, gg @ZOS_BrianWheeler . Another year or two before recognising mistakes made? So much for zos communication, I can't even.

RipperoniZossoni

So this decision has already been made, go away dear friend RiP inferno Asylum staff one of the hardest one to get

Vildebill

Fantastic to be disappointed another PTS patch with ZOS complete incompetence. I get that you probably would feel bad about yourself as a developer if you completely gut a good weapon and the whole community points out that the only thing needed to be done was to fix a bug. But at least man up, accept your mistake and change it.

It baffles me so much that the developers are so bad at understanding their own game.

Imagie

I'm going to puke.

Nicalas

Sadly this is just another decon item going forward.

Cravalllo

Vildebill wrote: »

Fantastic to be disappointed another PTS patch with ZOS complete incompetence. I get that you probably would feel bad about yourself as a developer if you completely gut a good weapon and the whole community points out that the only thing needed to be done was to fix a bug. But at least man up, accept your mistake and change it.

It baffles me so much that the developers are so bad at understanding their own game.

Not the first time that something like this is happening. Sometimes I feel like they do it on purpose. The community often had great ideas and feedback on how to improve certain things but they always hold on to their terrible decision making, so far, I do not think that it has paid off. But there is not much we can do about it.

kojou

Rest in Peace VAS Destruction staff. It was fun while it lasted.

Too bad I can't place obsolete gear as furniture items. I could set it next to my Bloodspawn head and shoulder.

YandereGirlfriend

I love the "consistency" that ZOS uses for these "power budget" formulas!

Vrol's Command is increased from 6 players to 12 which is literally a DOUBLING of whatever its previous "budget" was for the 5-piece effect. This indicates either that a) ZOS wildly miscalculated its "budget" originally or b) ZOS actually has no problems whatsoever blowing up its stated balance rationale when it is convenient for them to do so. (For the record, I'm glad for that change.)

The implications of their Vrol reversal should be obvious: that they have either wildly miscalculated the Asylum Destro's final effect "budget" and that it should be corrected or that, even if it obeys their formula, it should be changed because they have already set the precedent that they can and will do so.

C'mon ZOS: Justice for Asylum Destro and Grundwulf!

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler

RipperoniZossoni

About vAS inferno, goodbye good friend

Olupajmibanan

Willpower and Imperial Wrath, both found place in our builds thanks to AS destro. Removing AS destro automaticaly means removing Willpower and Imperial Wrath as well. ZoS, c'mon do you really want to remove it? Was such a nice use for otherwise useless set (looking at Imperial Wrath).

WE ARE ALL SICK OF FALSE GOD AND MOTHER'S SORROW. But instead of giving us more options, you remove existing ones. @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Nicalas

Did a little basic testing.

Equipped the Malacath Band of Brutality to remove critical chance.

Did 15 LA/15 Casts comparing Perfected Asylum Inferno to (2pc)Willpower Inferno w/Ele weapon.

Maulkin

Ezhh wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Fix those ridiculous imbalances and few will moan about the crutch being removed.

I definitely agree with addressing issues, but this isn't just about magDKs. At the moment other classes can, situationally, use Asylum destro as a valid alternative to MS/PFG. Those classes don't have the magDK burning proc issue but are going to lose Asylum destro as a valid option.

I like variety. I like having more than one set up I can run without taking a major damage loss for it. Fewer options that fit the content I do in the groups I do that content = a more boring game for me. Maybe I will be among that "few" you mention, but just the same I see no good argument for removing options.

The answer is fix the issue unique to magDKs AND don't reduce Asylum destro to another piece of decon trash.

Is Asylum destro on 2 casts, even a valid option for other classes without the bug? Assuming PFGD is mainstay because of the Minor Slayer and many stat bonuses, does swapping MS for 3 willpower + Asylum even make sense dps wise unless you're an interrupter on vAS?

Nicalas wrote: »

Did a little basic testing.

Equipped the Malacath Band of Brutality to remove critical chance.

Did 15 LA/15 Casts comparing Perfected Asylum Inferno to (2pc)Willpower Inferno w/Ele weapon.

If you removed crit chance and kept all else the same, why is there a deviation in the numbers?

Nicalas

Maulkin wrote: »

Ezhh wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Fix those ridiculous imbalances and few will moan about the crutch being removed.

I definitely agree with addressing issues, but this isn't just about magDKs. At the moment other classes can, situationally, use Asylum destro as a valid alternative to MS/PFG. Those classes don't have the magDK burning proc issue but are going to lose Asylum destro as a valid option.

I like variety. I like having more than one set up I can run without taking a major damage loss for it. Fewer options that fit the content I do in the groups I do that content = a more boring game for me. Maybe I will be among that "few" you mention, but just the same I see no good argument for removing options.

The answer is fix the issue unique to magDKs AND don't reduce Asylum destro to another piece of decon trash.

Is Asylum destro on 2 casts, even a valid option for other classes without the bug? Assuming PFGD is mainstay because of the Minor Slayer and many stat bonuses, does swapping MS for 3 willpower + Asylum even make sense dps wise unless you're an interrupter on vAS?

Nicalas wrote: »

Did a little basic testing.

Equipped the Malacath Band of Brutality to remove critical chance.

Did 15 LA/15 Casts comparing Perfected Asylum Inferno to (2pc)Willpower Inferno w/Ele weapon.

If you removed crit chance and kept all else the same, why is there a deviation in the numbers?

Concussion proc w/minor vuln and small variations in LA/S.

Kolzki

Nicalas wrote: »

Did a little basic testing.

Equipped the Malacath Band of Brutality to remove critical chance.

Did 15 LA/15 Casts comparing Perfected Asylum Inferno to (2pc)Willpower Inferno w/Ele weapon.

So a willpower staff would be stronger if you also use other skills in an actual rotation? Also, 5-5-monster set is much stronger than 5-5-willpower.

Olupajmibanan

Nicalas wrote: »

Did a little basic testing.

Equipped the Malacath Band of Brutality to remove critical chance.

Did 15 LA/15 Casts comparing Perfected Asylum Inferno to (2pc)Willpower Inferno w/Ele weapon.

What was the average uptime difference on Minor Vulnerability? You should test it on Target Iron Attro which is always affected by minor vuln. Or is this test on target attro already?