Asylum Destro Staff change

Olupajmibanan

After some testing on PTS, asylum inferno is definitely dead.

I achieved better results on target attro with Perfect False God Inferno and Force Shock as spammable. If you decide to use generic spammable instead of powerful class spammable and still getting better results with 5/5/2 setup rather than with ability altering weapon enhancing the generic spammable, than something must be terribly wrong.

Kolzki

Zalathorm wrote: »

There is a heavy opportunity cost to equipping a unique front bar weapon

You cant run 5/5 and a monster set.

I highly doubt their item power level equations considers this fact.

Please revert back to 2 casts as it is on live. The fix to burning procs and reduction to 5 seconds instead of 10 is enough to tone it down.

MagDKs were rare in PVE before this last patch. Lets keep them around.

The comparison to other setups is right. We have a choice of a 5-5-2 setup or a 5-3-2-2 where the two piece is a monster set or front bar arena weapon.

I don’t understand the logic for making the stat bonus on perfected arena weapons weaker than standard set bonuses. This stat bonus is filling the role of a monster set’s 1 piece bonus or a regular set’s 4 piece bonus.

BadShogun

Please update this to proc the status effects after every 2 casts instead of three. At every three casts, the weapon is not worth using at all.

Why not just set both normal and perfected to every 2 casts?

SupremeRissole

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

After some testing on PTS, asylum inferno is definitely dead.

I achieved better results on target attro with Perfect False God Inferno and Force Shock as spammable. If you decide to use generic spammable instead of powerful class spammable and still getting better results with 5/5/2 setup rather than with ability altering weapon enhancing the generic spammable, than something must be terribly wrong.

I didnt get to test that setup but the vas staff is definately dead. Sustain is a rip as is the damage.
From the very limited testing I concluded the DSA imperfect inferno with a non optimal rotation (63%uptime on the unique buff) outperforms perfect vas inferno.
Just let that sink in. A normal DSA weapon is better than a HM vAS weapon. That is not okay IMO.

Zalathorm

SupremeRissole wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

After some testing on PTS, asylum inferno is definitely dead.

I achieved better results on target attro with Perfect False God Inferno and Force Shock as spammable. If you decide to use generic spammable instead of powerful class spammable and still getting better results with 5/5/2 setup rather than with ability altering weapon enhancing the generic spammable, than something must be terribly wrong.

I didnt get to test that setup but the vas staff is definately dead. Sustain is a rip as is the damage.
From the very limited testing I concluded the DSA imperfect inferno with a non optimal rotation (63%uptime on the unique buff) outperforms perfect vas inferno.
Just let that sink in. A normal DSA weapon is better than a HM vAS weapon. That is not okay IMO.

Agreed. The difficulty of the trial has to mean something

Olupajmibanan

No change to Asylum destruction staff in 6.0.1 patch notes!

Stuhns Favor and Roaring Opportunist, both have been changed based on community feedback. Why Asylum destro has been left untouched then?

kojou

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

No change to Asylum destruction staff in 6.0.1 patch notes!

Stuhns Favor and Roaring Opportunist, both have been changed based on community feedback. Why Asylum destro has been left untouched then?

The answer is obvious... they like it where it is.

Olupajmibanan

kojou wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

No change to Asylum destruction staff in 6.0.1 patch notes!

Stuhns Favor and Roaring Opportunist, both have been changed based on community feedback. Why Asylum destro has been left untouched then?

The answer is obvious... they like it where it is.

In the decon fodder I don't even know if we shall laugh or cry.

kojou

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

kojou wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

No change to Asylum destruction staff in 6.0.1 patch notes!

Stuhns Favor and Roaring Opportunist, both have been changed based on community feedback. Why Asylum destro has been left untouched then?

The answer is obvious... they like it where it is.

In the decon fodder I don't even know if we shall laugh or cry.

It will certainly go in a box in my house with other trials sets that aren't currently worth running go. I never decon good trait-ed trials gear, because you never know when it will be good again (even if it is years from now).

Nagastani

Yes this is a direct hit, esp to Mag DK but really it's a hit to anyone who uses Fire Staff for DD. This was weapon was very useful and hard as hell to obtain because it means you have to get a vAS group which is not easy. I am incredibly disappointed by the Asylum changes and I think they need to stop and reconsider this.

But more to the point, why even bother with 3 casts when there's a 5 second cool down anyways. It should be just the cool down and nothing else is needed here. Procs on cast then the 5 second cool down and we're moving on.

Seems like this has not been flushed out yet.

Olupajmibanan

Mishaxki wrote: »

Yes this is a direct hit, esp to Mag DK but really it's a hit to anyone who uses Fire Staff for DD. This was weapon was very useful and hard as hell to obtain because it means you have to get a vAS group which is not easy. I am incredibly disappointed by the Asylum changes and I think they need to stop and reconsider this.

But more to the point, why even bother with 3 casts when there's a 5 second cool down anyways. It should be just the cool down and nothing else is needed here. Procs on cast then the 5 second cool down and we're moving on.

Seems like this has not been flushed out yet.

Proc on every cast with 5 second cooldown is even worse than proc on every 3rd force shock. Think about it, in the first case you can get 2 procs at maximum in 10 seconds, in the second case you can get maximaly 3 procs within 10 seconds. On live you can get 5 procs within 10 seconds (although this is quite unachievable in real encounter scenario).

I don't know if we understand each one correctly

SeaUnicorn

I support this message Make Asylum Destro great again plox, ty.

Imagie

This is a really bad and unnecessary nerf, they updated versions should be more in line with the current perfected destro staves.

Nagastani

Yeah

The cool down should be removed altogether but then again, the cool down should be removed from alot of things.

It seems to me like they want this time proc on the 3rd cast, but a 5 second cool down by itself is enough of a penalty. Besides, most of the time in PvP at most I get 2x shots in then have to pull back and heal. 3 shots and I'm dead. And have both a 5 second cool down AND every third cast just kills this weapons, with the (3) casting requirement killing it alone.

Nagastani

Wait hah -not to mention- the lag that occurs with each shot of Force Pulse. Esp during prime time PvP most of my mag dps abilities feel very weighted and unstable. Like it's killing the server just to cast Force Pulse once... omg I can just imagine (3) times. Esp trying to target one person with Force Pulse and everyone jumping around in front of each other... (3) casts one never hit the same person lol.

Olupajmibanan

I heard many rummors in one of my guilds that Asylum Destro change is just an oversight resulting from wide arena weapons update and will be changed back to 2 Force Shock casts in next PTS patch.

Is this true? Anyone competent able to confirm this message from heavens?

RipperoniZossoni

As far as my opinion is concerned, it seems to me that the changes that ZoS wants to address in relation to pefcet and non perfect are completely nonsense. Through this change they will be no difference between these two weapons, they will be practically the same. after all, 103 SP is practically nothing.
After all, in order to get perfect inferno that you have to do vAS in hard mode, and you will not always drop it, and we know that if you are not a great group, this trial ends in an average of 20-25 minutes.
For comparison, that AS execution in normal mode does not require any special skills and even Pugs do it. So I ask you where thinking logically from the creators' side, if I will really have to fight to get my Perfect inferno staff only to have 103 SP more, when I can make a norm and there will be practically no difference. Please, sometimes think about what you are doing, because it is often not necessary and not logical ZoS.

RipperoniZossoni

So probably these changes will come because ZoS are listening to the players

Zalathorm

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

I heard many rummors in one of my guilds that Asylum Destro change is just an oversight resulting from wide arena weapons update and will be changed back to 2 Force Shock casts in next PTS patch.

Is this true? Anyone competent able to confirm this message from heavens?

I really hope this is the case

daemonor

Just wanted to bump this post instead of making a new one so they might actually listen. The triple nerf to asylum inferno is way over the top, the bugfix would probably be enough. Yes on live you do a lot of damage with the burning status effect on a mag dk, but nerfing it every 3 casts and making the duration 5 seconds is too much.

FYI I'm not a top player and I only had the chance to obtain the normal version cause it's basically free, but for my intents and purposes parsing 74k with it on a 21 mil dummy is plenty enough. The status effect "fix" and duration nerf will hit the normal staff aswell and will make it as useful as unarmed probably, cause on the pts the TOP players can barely parse 74k with the PERFECTED one.

Therefore I plea to go thru only with the burning status effect fix first, monitor how did that actually effect the dps and if it's still too good just stop at the 5 second duration reduction nerf. Making the perfected staff same as the normal is unethical considering the difficulty between normal and +2 vet. You could argue that the rest of the asylum weapons are like that now, but none of them are seeing play probably because of that reason, both the versions are same and lame. You could fit the 2hander if you really wanted to into a stam pvp build but that's about it.

Or make mag dks viable without the staff. While it's unfair for the non dk asylum users, they can still find a viable playstyle without it. Mag dk on the pts only functions as a meele with blood for blood spammable in pve dps and while it's better than nothing it's probably not a likeable playstyle for all the mag dk mains out there. You could play mag dk cause you like whipping (make it viable please again?), or you could play mag dk cause its a viable range dps spec. Playing meele with the vampire spammable is neither and i'd just rather play another class cause it loses most of the dragon knight flavour to me.

Olupajmibanan

daemonor wrote: »

Just wanted to bump this post instead of making a new one so they might actually listen. The triple nerf to asylum inferno is way over the top, the bugfix would probably be enough.

It's even hard to keep discussion on this topic alive, because majority of us already expressed our opinion of this being a bad change. There is no much to discuss further

General consensus appears to be:
1. Bugfix is mandatory and greatly reducess the effectivness of the set on magicka Dragonknights.
2. Reduced time frame to 5 seconds might be good change in order to reduce its effectivness in PvP.
3. 3 Force Shock casts condition is unacceptable and needs to be brought back to 2 casts unless they want this arena weapon to not be used ever again and deconstructed on drop.

Before this change, at least we had a thing to tinker around on our magsorcs for example. If this goes through, basicaly everyone is stuck with PFG+Mothers Sorrow.

Even class reps are with us (The video seems to not jump to time stamp on mobile devices. If you are on mobile device, jump directly to 02:48:15 where is discussion between NefasQ and Alcast on Asylum Destro)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5W4JNU6OTM&t=168m15s

It is Zenimax's turn now. Make AS destro working again, save build diversity.

#Savediversity

Ezhh

On live I sometimes use this on magsorc because it's nice to have alternative set ups that still perform decently. On magsorc it certainly doesn't feel overpowered compared to other options. It just feels comparable enough to be worth running for certain things.

The change from two to three casts means I'd lose either a monster set or five part set bonus (big loss!) to apply the same amount of status effects that Ele Weapon can apply anyway. Ele Weapon is better single target to begin with so... At this point it's clearly better to ditch the Asylum destro and use Ele Weapon (so keeping my monster set/second five part bonus), and the fun feeling of having alternative set ups that work... is gone.

This is before we get into the sheer difficulty of acquiring this weapon. I know there are groups that make it look easy to the point it's meaningless, but those aren't the groups most of us earn these weapons through. I spent over two months there, often going in more than one night a week, and even once clears started to happen (crazy server performance created complications there!!) it took a fair amount of time for me to get a staff. Why shouldn't it be worth using?

I have never heard any complaint Asylum destro was overpowered on classes other than magDK, and the bugfix should cure that anyway.The bugfix is fine, but please don't throw the weapon on the decon pile for all of us in the process.

Olupajmibanan

Only 38 minutes to see if our feedback was ignored.

#SaveAylumDestroSaveDiversity

Olupajmibanan

Nvm, nothing in 6.0.2 patch notes. Looks like they really want an arena weapon obtainable only on hard mode to be worth only decon material. It's a disgrace.

Derra

I have to admit it´s kind of triggering that blackrose DW and maelstrom 2h get adressed and as a magica player you´re stuck with 1 useable ability altering offensive weapon (or 0 from pvp pov as far as pts goes).

How can any of the devs look at magica ability altering weapons and go like: "This is fine."
It´s literally all trash apart from boring backbar maelstrom by now. Why zos.

Etrella

Don't worry. They will make it 2 casts in the next chapter. They'll call it Super Perfected, and you will have to run VAS HM again fo it. They don't deserve our money.

Vildebill

90% of the reason for reading PTS patch notes was to see that ZOS understood their mistake and corrected the Asylum staff.

I'm not surprised, and I shouldn't be disappointed, yet I am

colossalvoids

@ZOS_BrianWheeler you still forgetting to revert those not well thought-out changes to Asylum destruction staves making them completely useless for everyone now. Do we need years again for a quick fix to make it at least barely usable?

Great communication as always 👍

Olupajmibanan

Vildebill wrote: »

90% of the reason for reading PTS patch notes was to see that ZOS understood their mistake and corrected the Asylum staff.

I'm not surprised, and I shouldn't be disappointed, yet I am

You can't even imagine how excited I got when I was reading: blackrose DW adjusted, Maelstrom 2h adjusted .... I was thinking "omgggg arena weapons adjustments, they surely must have adjusted AS destro as well, it would be stupid of them not to do so" ... than found no Concentrated Force adjustments there

Guess Clockwork City ain't making money now. When Alcast made fun of their att new Mother Ciannait set, ZoS reacted immediately. Now Alcast makes fun of AS destro calling it a "decon material" yet no reaction from ZoS.

Ezhh

It's pretty depressing in all honesty. A couple of friends have already left the game, not exclusively due to this change, but due to a combination of the endless performance issues and combat changes (at least one of them specifically mentioned the situation with ability altering weapons), along with the general feel of a lack of communication. It feels like there is no point working on equipment anymore.

I also had real hopes these patch notes today would have some change for this.