VMA and VDSA weapons will have perfected versions but your weapon won't be upgraded automatically.

Nirntrotter

The one silver lining is that the added stat on the perfected version is so negligible that vMA can kiss my behind even with the upcoming changes. Still completely ludicrous that my current weapon is now equivalent to a normal clear drop, when I grinded vet for it. What a bold move considering how the game is rarely even... you know, working atm.

JusticeSouldier

ethuiliel wrote: »

The one silver lining is that the added stat on the perfected version is so negligible that vMA can kiss my behind even with the upcoming changes. Still completely ludicrous that my current weapon is now equivalent to a normal clear drop, when I grinded vet for it. What a bold move considering how the game is rarely even... you know, working atm.

if @ZOS_BrianWheeler after all our feedbacks about that will not upgrade our arena weapons (obtained in veteran! arenas during years of farm!) - imho it's going to be extremly massive unsub. Hope he understand why such action against us is terrible in it's core as a spit into faces.

gatekeeper13

No way I am spending so many hours of my life again to farm the "perfected versions". Not 1/100000000000.

What ZOS did was steal our efforts just to revive dead content. Did vMA like 50 times to farm all weapons I needed. No chance I am doing that again.

They could have easily upgraded all current vMA weapons into Perfected and add a new, weaker weapon to drop from normal mode. But no, they had to ruin our gear so that we will play again a dead DLC content.

Most probably I ll just quit the game for good since it has turned into pointless, money-grabbing, unplayable mess. Its already been a month since I last PvP. Now to quit PVE too...

JusticeSouldier

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

No way I am spending so many hours of my life again to farm the "perfected versions". Not 1/100000000000.

What ZOS did was steal our efforts just to revive dead content. Did vMA like 50 times to farm all weapons I needed. No chance I am going that again.

They could have easily upgraded all current vMA weapons into Perfected and add a new, weaker weapon to drop from normal mode. But no, they had to ruin our gear so that we will play again a dead DLC content.

Most probably I ll just quit the game for good since it has turned into pointless, money-grabbing, unplayable mess. Its already been a month since I last PvP. Now to quit PVE too...

I already decided to not buy greymoor and sure any eso+ until i will get a proofs of respect to playerbase from Devs.
@ZOS_GinaBruno Does it mean to leave eso?

Nirntrotter

How hard can it be to add weapons to normal that are weaker than the current live versions?

Sange13

Elsonso wrote: »

I guess my first question is whether it is even realistic, from the game/server perspective, to upgrade them? Is it even something that they could do, and get it right? I mean, I can see the "no soup for you" coming from them, but there might be more to it than just an arbitrary "no" decision.

Yes, they can just upgrade all the existing versions into copies of the new versions. In fact, they should do this about a week in advance of the live changes for a few reasons:

A) "Early-access" for the people who earned it the hard way
Ensure that the upgrades are working properly before dropping the live changes
C) Avoid forcing players who already farmed that stuff the hard way having to do it again for no justifiable reason
D) Avoids having to come up with post hoc solutions to avoid f***ing the players from C over or simply doing so for no justifiable reason

Moose_Scout

I spend MONTHS getting my Master's Bow, in vet. NOT normal. Do you know how long it takes to find a group that can do this well? Also, my pve characters (magblade) sucks now and I am not sure I can do it anymore.

This game is really close to making me quit because there is NO promise that hardwork pays off. If there is no payout, there is no point.

VETERAN CONTENT ITEMS NEED TO REMAIN VETERAN CONTENT ITEMS!

What, is my gold gear going to go to purple just because an update?

It is such an easy fix to keep people playing and happy.

They must have hired some MMO developers from the Korean Game Companies who think the "GRIND!" is more important than player retention and quality of life.

Lotus781

You mean i can do normal and get the same stuff as all you vets , wow this is great.

gatekeeper13

Lotus781 wrote: »

You mean i can do normal and get the same stuff as all you vets , wow this is great.

Normal will drop current Maelstrom weapons. Veteran will drop Perfected versions.

But people who spent hours and hours of their life to develop their skills and farm to get their Maelstrom weapons from Vet mode, will not see them upgraded to Perfected. On the contrary, they will have to do the same content again and again and again.

So I dont see how this is "great".

mairwen85

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

Lotus781 wrote: »

You mean i can do normal and get the same stuff as all you vets , wow this is great.

Normal will drop current Maelstrom weapons. Veteran will drop Perfected versions.

But people who spent hours and hours of their life to develop their skills and farm to get their Maelstrom weapons from Vet mode, will not see them upgraded to Perfected. On the contrary, they will have to do the same content again and again and again.

So I dont see how this is "great".

I think (hope) it was sarcasm, but lately, I'm having a hard time working it out... my troll-o-meter is broken from all the bs threads

MEBengalsFan2001

The reason they are doing this is to encourage players to go back and rerun content. I have seen this happen in other games before. I also like that they are allowing those who complete the normal now to get the non-perfected weapons to help with some game balance issues.

khajiitNPC

I’m fine with farming it all again. In fact I’m glad they are doing it this way. I got so tired of seeing people paying to have someone run it for them. Looks like those who couldn’t farm it on their own have to pay again.

Moose_Scout

It took me a year to get the Master's Bow. When it finally dropped, I was shaking with excitement. Now it is just a piece-of-junk? I spend all my time in PVP. I specifically built a good PVE character, a magblade, to do vDSA. Now magblades are worthless, my gear is going to be worthless... pretty depressing really.

ZOS, you are invalidating our decisions to spend our TIME, our most valuable asset, in your game.

But ZOS gives zero craps about what the community thinks at this point. The game is big enough they will just look at overall stats and trends but ignore the player base that has made the game what it is. I joined in January 2015. Because of moves like this during this cycle, this will be the first month of canceling my ESO+ sub.

Way to screw long-time-players.

KexinAD

Moose_Scout wrote: »

It took me a year to get the Master's Bow. When it finally dropped, I was shaking with excitement. Now it is just a piece-of-junk? I spend all my time in PVP. I specifically built a good PVE character, a magblade, to do vDSA. Now magblades are worthless, my gear is going to be worthless... pretty depressing really.

ZOS, you are invalidating our decisions to spend our TIME, our most valuable asset, in your game.

But ZOS gives zero craps about what the community thinks at this point. The game is big enough they will just look at overall stats and trends but ignore the player base that has made the game what it is. I joined in January 2015. Because of moves like this during this cycle, this will be the first month of canceling my ESO+ sub.

Way to screw long-time-players.

I finally got my Master resto staff. What is it about the patch that makes it "junk"?

mairwen85

Moose_Scout wrote: »

It took me a year to get the Master's Bow. When it finally dropped, I was shaking with excitement. Now it is just a piece-of-junk? I spend all my time in PVP. I specifically built a good PVE character, a magblade, to do vDSA. Now magblades are worthless, my gear is going to be worthless... pretty depressing really.

ZOS, you are invalidating our decisions to spend our TIME, our most valuable asset, in your game.

But ZOS gives zero craps about what the community thinks at this point. The game is big enough they will just look at overall stats and trends but ignore the player base that has made the game what it is. I joined in January 2015. Because of moves like this during this cycle, this will be the first month of canceling my ESO+ sub.

Way to screw long-time-players.

To be fair, it's not going to be junk. The perfect bonuses are negligible and not worth the effort to farm. The main issue as many see it, is the devaluation of player time and effort in earning something that can after greymoor releases be earned in normal. Now, don't misunderstand me, I'm glad zos have decided to provide a slightly lesser version of the weapons for normal clears. Its a good decision and I don't begrudge anyone the opportunity - - the bad decision is saying to everyone who has cleared vet that their rewards no longer count as veteran rewards, and if you want one, go run it another however many times. It isn't the stats on the bloody thing, but the fact that we've already earnt them many times over only to be told that we haven't.

Moose_Scout

mairwen85 wrote: »

Moose_Scout wrote: »

It took me a year to get the Master's Bow. When it finally dropped, I was shaking with excitement. Now it is just a piece-of-junk? I spend all my time in PVP. I specifically built a good PVE character, a magblade, to do vDSA. Now magblades are worthless, my gear is going to be worthless... pretty depressing really.

ZOS, you are invalidating our decisions to spend our TIME, our most valuable asset, in your game.

But ZOS gives zero craps about what the community thinks at this point. The game is big enough they will just look at overall stats and trends but ignore the player base that has made the game what it is. I joined in January 2015. Because of moves like this during this cycle, this will be the first month of canceling my ESO+ sub.

Way to screw long-time-players.

To be fair, it's not going to be junk. The perfect bonuses are negligible and not worth the effort to farm. The main issue as many see it, is the devaluation of player time and effort in earning something that can after greymoor releases be earned in normal. Now, don't misunderstand me, I'm glad zos have decided to provide a slightly lesser version of the weapons for normal clears. Its a good decision and I don't begrudge anyone the opportunity - - the bad decision is saying to everyone who has cleared vet that their rewards no longer count as veteran rewards, and if you want one, go run it another however many times. It isn't the stats on the bloody thing, but the fact that we've already earnt them many times over only to be told that we haven't.

Well said. I just dread trying to get a team together to do vDSA again. If I had to farm new content for more powerful gear that is fine! That is the point, farm hard stuff to get the gear you dream of... BUT I have to farm the old content to get the stuff I already worked for? It makes no sense.

It is like having the dream of becoming a lawyer, let's say: Go to college for four years, get your diploma, apply for law school, study for the bar, get an internship and finally graduate. After one year of this, the state BAR announces that, "Hey, you can become a lawyer in just one month of online classes now--cool huh?"

It makes your accomplishments and life goals feel like absolutely nothing.

Not only that, they say--cheer up bud! You can go back to school, take the exact same classes, take the exact same test, and you can become a "SUPER LAWYER!" Neat, huh? All it costs is your time.

There isn't some new task...just the same ol' slap in the face.

So please, don't compare this to WOW updates with new content and new gear... this is not new content, just a random demotion.

ZOS is like the evil kid on The Incredibles: "If everyone is super, nobody is"

Moose_Scout

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert

Could we please get some reasoning on the Veteran Arena Weapons decision?
Thanks!

mairwen85

Moose_Scout wrote: »

So please, don't compare this to WOW updates with new content and new gear... this is not new content, just a random demotion.

Exactly, this false equivalence (likewise the motif drops) is one of the most ridiculous counterpoints people keep throwing up.

mairwen85 wrote: »

Part of what makes ESO not like other MMORPGs is the combat, and the gear system, the 'unwritten' promise of horizontal progression you might say. Using the fact that other MMOs do x as an argument for why people who play ESO should stfu about ZOS doing things that it doesn't normally do and hasn't done in the last 6 years, or that breach the understanding of that 'unwritten' promise is a totally moot argument in this context. Especially when it misses the point of contention to begin with which is the setting of an entirely new precedent.

As I said in another thread on the same subject.

Kadoin

Moose_Scout wrote: »

ZOS is like the evil kid on The Incredibles: "If everyone is super, nobody is"

Except, contrary to ZOS' thoughts, OP gear itself will not make anyone super alone. That's why the forums are still full of threads asking for nerfs when people lose versus others not using their mathematically superior setups.

And what does ZOS do in response to those nerf threads? Actually nerf the players and not the OP gear!

Malmai

Drako_Ei wrote: »

vMA weapons will result in a DPS decrease on the wrong hands, they require skill to use like activating sinergies only on frost bar, not dropping AY stacks, keep siroria up, using spammables on front bar only, etc.

This Change won't help to raise floor, it will only make angry the veteran players with the regrind nonsense.

They got no ideas so they nerf to regrind - what a content.

Pay for new content to regrind old which was released in 2015 and rework vampire and implement archeology simulator xD

If we are going this way than normal dungeons should drop unperfected monster sets...

Some great ideas made by zos.

HllCntryHrrcane

I love this game and love the combat. I have refrained from commenting on this because I felt it would be addressed, but it looks like it may not. I like having so many set options to mix and match. I love the idea of a vMA and a Perfected vMA weapon. Same for vDSA. That being said, I think it is a terrible decision by ZOS to not upgrade all existing vMA and vDSA weapons that were earned in the same combat level that the new perfected weapons will drop in. All existing weapons should be upgraded...period. I will not enjoy farming for perfected versions under the current proposed conditions. I will be sour and likely will not do it. Also there is little incentive to battle through through Vet Arenas for the little gain that perfected is going to give. There should be more difference between the versions.

1. All existing weapons should be upgraded given that the arena difficultly is not being altered from which they were won
2. Perfect and normal weapons should have a higher difference as the difficulty of doing the content is not proportional to the gains in they give
3. if you ignore my previous 2 comments, a completion of the Arena content should allow for a choice in weapon reward...maybe not the trait but at least in the weapon type (i.e. destro staff, DW, 2H, Resto Staff, S&B)...whether you receive an ax or sword or infused or sharpened can still be random if you like but give some better incentive to doing the hard content

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno @xynode

Moose_Scout

HllCntryHrrcane wrote: »

I love this game and love the combat. I have refrained from commenting on this because I felt it would be addressed, but it looks like it may not. I like having so many set options to mix and match. I love the idea of a vMA and a Perfected vMA weapon. Same for vDSA. That being said, I think it is a terrible decision by ZOS to not upgrade all existing vMA and vDSA weapons that were earned in the same combat level that the new perfected weapons will drop in. All existing weapons should be upgraded...period. I will not enjoy farming for perfected versions under the current proposed conditions. I will be sour and likely will not do it. Also there is little incentive to battle through through Vet Arenas for the little gain that perfected is going to give. There should be more difference between the versions.

1. All existing weapons should be upgraded given that the arena difficultly is not being altered from which they were won
2. Perfect and normal weapons should have a higher difference as the difficulty of doing the content is not proportional to the gains in they give
3. if you ignore my previous 2 comments, a completion of the Arena content should allow for a choice in weapon reward...maybe not the trait but at least in the weapon type (i.e. destro staff, DW, 2H, Resto Staff, S&B)...whether you receive an ax or sword or infused or sharpened can still be random if you like but give some better incentive to doing the hard content

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno @xynode

Agreed.
I don't think they will go for it though... I don't think this issue will even make it to a meeting.

They are going to ride out the storm because the game is now too big for hardcore players to be of concern.

colossalvoids

That's what bothers me the most - decisions.

I personally can easily regrind the weapons (although wasting time again instead of doing new content) for all characters, but they put zero thought about ones who actually struggled and had vma experience as a pain. Or didn't even finished after years of struggle, believe me they exist. It's a slap at their faces also, as they actually suffered.

This... Behaviour, time wasted for a meaningless pre pts abomination, strange pick of bonuses for perfected weapons making no sense mostly plus vAS staff degradation with zero math or research done to back up the decision (not even talking bout other stuff like questionable vamp overhaul, monster sets and mythics changes) and of course lack of any communication whatsoever is the most frustrating thing about the next expansion and motivates greatly to never trust and support this company ever again.

Moose_Scout

I would be happier if I just got some sort of explanation. I took off WORK to farm vDSA. I have a financial loss in investing my time into getting that weapon.

It is like paying off a car loan for a 20,000 car and then the car company decides to sell the car for 100 dollars. Cool! Everyone deserves rewards for their work! I am glad more people will experience this car....but you see, I already put 20,000k into it.

That is how I feel about time. I already put my TIME into those weapons. Now that time is meaningless? No, it is quantified and they are taking it away.

zaria

Sange13 wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

I guess my first question is whether it is even realistic, from the game/server perspective, to upgrade them? Is it even something that they could do, and get it right? I mean, I can see the "no soup for you" coming from them, but there might be more to it than just an arbitrary "no" decision.

Yes, they can just upgrade all the existing versions into copies of the new versions. In fact, they should do this about a week in advance of the live changes for a few reasons:

A) "Early-access" for the people who earned it the hard way
Ensure that the upgrades are working properly before dropping the live changes
C) Avoid forcing players who already farmed that stuff the hard way having to do it again for no justifiable reason
D) Avoids having to come up with post hoc solutions to avoid f***ing the players from C over or simply doing so for no justifiable reason

This as I stated before its no reason not to just rename and buff existing weapons, then add the normal version.
At the same time make +0 vAS give perfected asylum weapon to standardize more

virtus753

khajiitNPC wrote: »

I’m fine with farming it all again. In fact I’m glad they are doing it this way. I got so tired of seeing people paying to have someone run it for them. Looks like those who couldn’t farm it on their own have to pay again.

Out of curiosity, what server are you on that paying for vMA carries is so ubiquitous? Forget being out the gold for that -- it's grounds for having your account banned.

angelncelestine

HllCntryHrrcane wrote: »

I love this game and love the combat. I have refrained from commenting on this because I felt it would be addressed, but it looks like it may not. I like having so many set options to mix and match. I love the idea of a vMA and a Perfected vMA weapon. Same for vDSA. That being said, I think it is a terrible decision by ZOS to not upgrade all existing vMA and vDSA weapons that were earned in the same combat level that the new perfected weapons will drop in. All existing weapons should be upgraded...period. I will not enjoy farming for perfected versions under the current proposed conditions. I will be sour and likely will not do it. Also there is little incentive to battle through through Vet Arenas for the little gain that perfected is going to give. There should be more difference between the versions.

1. All existing weapons should be upgraded given that the arena difficultly is not being altered from which they were won
2. Perfect and normal weapons should have a higher difference as the difficulty of doing the content is not proportional to the gains in they give
3. if you ignore my previous 2 comments, a completion of the Arena content should allow for a choice in weapon reward...maybe not the trait but at least in the weapon type (i.e. destro staff, DW, 2H, Resto Staff, S&B)...whether you receive an ax or sword or infused or sharpened can still be random if you like but give some better incentive to doing the hard content

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno @xynode

I have also been lurking hoping for some sort of communication. It sadly doesn’t look like we will be getting any. I found it interesting that you tagged a streamer. I sure hope that they aren’t making this stupid decision to not upgrade our vet weapons because some streamer wanted a reason to run vMA again.

Moose_Scout

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno

Still waiting for some reasoning on the Arena Weapons decision!
Thanks for taking the time to explain!

Maulkin

angelncelestine wrote: »

HllCntryHrrcane wrote: »

I love this game and love the combat. I have refrained from commenting on this because I felt it would be addressed, but it looks like it may not. I like having so many set options to mix and match. I love the idea of a vMA and a Perfected vMA weapon. Same for vDSA. That being said, I think it is a terrible decision by ZOS to not upgrade all existing vMA and vDSA weapons that were earned in the same combat level that the new perfected weapons will drop in. All existing weapons should be upgraded...period. I will not enjoy farming for perfected versions under the current proposed conditions. I will be sour and likely will not do it. Also there is little incentive to battle through through Vet Arenas for the little gain that perfected is going to give. There should be more difference between the versions.

1. All existing weapons should be upgraded given that the arena difficultly is not being altered from which they were won
2. Perfect and normal weapons should have a higher difference as the difficulty of doing the content is not proportional to the gains in they give
3. if you ignore my previous 2 comments, a completion of the Arena content should allow for a choice in weapon reward...maybe not the trait but at least in the weapon type (i.e. destro staff, DW, 2H, Resto Staff, S&B)...whether you receive an ax or sword or infused or sharpened can still be random if you like but give some better incentive to doing the hard content

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno @xynode

I have also been lurking hoping for some sort of communication. It sadly doesn’t look like we will be getting any. I found it interesting that you tagged a streamer. I sure hope that they aren’t making this stupid decision to not upgrade our vet weapons because some streamer wanted a reason to run vMA again.

Why would a streamer want to re-run vMA and why do you think that would matter to ZOS? That’s a helluva lot of unbased suspicion. Tinfoil hat-like.

Curragraigue

As I understand it the thinking is that we are not "losing" anything because what we have now is not being nerfed it will still be the same gear after patch. The problem with that argument is that it ignores the time involved in getting the gear and the gold upgrade materials used on that gear.

When the new gear is coming from the same content then there is only one way to view the change, it is clearly a grind for grinds sake.