VMA and VDSA weapons will have perfected versions but your weapon won't be upgraded automatically.

Growlspirit

I grinded my way through two VMA infernal staves, so many runs I can't count. I'm not doing that again. I will absolutely cancel my ESO plus and be done with this game. There are many balance changes that, as a player, I can roll with. Unfortunately taking something I spent so many hours obtaining and telling me to do it all over again is laziness, not balance. Make this right. VMA weapons already earned must be converted to perfected.

UnassumingNoob

First post on the forums. This is beyond stupid. Make our old items the perfected versions.

mav1234

Here's a novel idea to the streamers and developers that want to re-run VMA for new game: Upgrade everybody's weapons to perfected, then let the streamers delete their old weapons to re-farm them Seems fine right? that lets them re-do the content they want to, but saves the rest of us the frustration.

I really do not understand this position. It has not been explained. It is disrespectful to veteran playerbases to do this.

It feels more and more like Zenimax has a vision that does not include me.

Moose_Scout

UnassumingNoob wrote: »

First post on the forums. This is beyond stupid. Make our old items the perfected versions.

This insulting arena weapons decision also made me activate my account...and I have been playing for over five years.

Oh...and the crappy nightblade performance right now.

furiouslog

When will we get a response about this issue?

Moose_Scout

furiouslog wrote: »

When will we get a response about this issue?

I just looked on Dev Tracker for the last month. They are only responding to posts that deal with financial issues now. I don't think gameplay or community is a concern anymore.

Ramber

The changes to vMA weapons will not out perform current setups. Also, with the buffs to monster sets this is even more so. The will not out perform a 2 5x and monster set like stormfist. and the back bar weapons are, well, on the backbar and dont help your dps if you are doing it correctly.

mairwen85

mav1234 wrote: »

Here's a novel idea to the streamers and developers that want to re-run VMA for new game: Upgrade everybody's weapons to perfected, then let the streamers delete their old weapons to re-farm them Seems fine right? that lets them re-do the content they want to, but saves the rest of us the frustration.

I really do not understand this position. It has not been explained. It is disrespectful to veteran playerbases to do this.

It feels more and more like Zenimax has a vision that does not include me.

I don't think it's fair or wise to bring streamers into this. I don't think any of them have enough sway to have made this a thing. This is purely a ZOS decision.

The rest of your response, I agree with, but of course, without any feedback or direct communication from ZOS, conspiracy theories and finger pointing are going to solidify.

FatFred

I farmed vMA countless times, got 7 flame destro for all my mag toon , I was so happy and proud to see all my mag dds were properly geared on that day. BUT now ZOS you are forcing me to eat that 4-years-old rotten cake again and again? I spent my tears and passion in vMA , we deserve a upgrade to our vMA weapons, not making them down to nMA level , it is UNFAIR.

precambria

The only version of this weapon currently in the game is the VET ones, the VET ones in the next patch will have additional stats this seems like the most simple equation but for completely unknown reasons it has surpassed their ability to logic.

mavfin

They are putting out new 'perfected' versions for vMA. Those are new weapons. If you want them, you can run vMA.

What do you get for having already run it before, you ask?

The fact that you had those weapons all this time before it was available to people running normal, whether that time was years or days. Standard MMO workings. Your 'compensation' is that you had Maelstrom weapons at all, before the people who ran normal.

You can play the game, or not. Your choice. They're not going to change this for the small percentage of people who went through vMA, and take away the carrot from the much larger casual playerbase of getting these in normal MA.

So, if you're going to quit over this, might as well start uninstalling now.

Surak73

Ramber wrote: »

The changes to vMA weapons will not out perform current setups. Also, with the buffs to monster sets this is even more so. The will not out perform a 2 5x and monster set like stormfist. and the back bar weapons are, well, on the backbar and dont help your dps if you are doing it correctly.

OK, so you are saying that our hard-earned VMA weapons will be degraded to free-for-all NMA weapons, AND that there won't be noticeable differences between new VMA perfected weapons and free-for-all NMA weapons anyway. Sorry, by I think I don't see which of the two is the good news; my fault, probably...

mavfin

Moose_Scout wrote: »

furiouslog wrote: »

When will we get a response about this issue?

I just looked on Dev Tracker for the last month. They are only responding to posts that deal with financial issues now. I don't think gameplay or community is a concern anymore.

Maybe they've already said all they're going to say on this subject. Just because you keep screaming about something they've already answered, that doesn't mean they're not listening. It's already been answered, so they're not going to repeat it.

Don't confuse "They're not listening" with "They're not doing what I want!!!"

Growlspirit

When it goes live I will speak with my wallet. This is wrong and I'd wager most people who ran vMA multiple times are not pleased with their proposed solution.

InfaM

Sad thing is that once this change goes live, they will never have a second thought and upgrade previous veteran reward to perfected, because they'll say that now it's impossible to tell which ones are old veteran reward and which ones come from the new normal rewards.

[snip] and they'll probably also nerf the perfected VDSA and VMA weapons after people refarmed it, like they did with asylum and blackrose.

As a pvp player, going back to VDSA to min/max my gear is a boring alternative because I already forced myself to do that content to reach my gear goals, looking for a group and the randomness of the last chest were annoying enough to see it "downgraded" to what is now "normal" content, if atleast they made those arenas in dungeon finder back then I wouldn't have that bad memories of VDSA.
[edited for bashing]

maxchaos92

They are doing alot of bad decisions,I player for more than 1 year,and the last 3 months was the baddest time i've ever had in a game,playing just because i was sad to leave,but i only love end game,and the situation it's really bad,i won't buy greymoore,i won't sub eso+ again,and i will leave as soon as new world and mafia 1 hit the store,why do i Need to play something that keep you on the line at every patch and you see your class falling from a cliff

mairwen85

mavfin wrote: »

They are putting out new 'perfected' versions for vMA. Those are new weapons. If you want them, you can run vMA.

What do you get for having already run it before, you ask?

The fact that you had those weapons all this time before it was available to people running normal, whether that time was years or days. Standard MMO workings. Your 'compensation' is that you had Maelstrom weapons at all, before the people who ran normal.

You can play the game, or not. Your choice. They're not going to change this for the small percentage of people who went through vMA, and take away the carrot from the much larger casual playerbase of getting these in normal MA.

So, if you're going to quit over this, might as well start uninstalling now.

So you're saying if I run vma the day prior to greymoor release, I deserve a lesser reward to someone who runs it the day after? Same content, same effort. Or to put it another way, if I run vma the day before greymoor, I deserve equal reward to someone who runs nma the next day? The hours spent farming, the time taken to learn and master the arena is no small feat, so it's logical people are unhappy. This thread is full of analogies, so I won't add another bottom line is most actually think its a good move that ZOS are putting unperfected versions of the weapons in normal. No one begrudes anyone that. The issue is with the implementation, a point which has been repeated to the nth degree in this and other threads on the subject.

Regardless of that bizarre logic kink, you're missing the point. I don't think many really care what other MMOs do, this isn't any MMO, this is ESO. ESO does not do the 'Standard MMO workings' with gear in this way, there is horizontal progression and new content = new gear. This is established and something that for a long time has set ESO apart from other MMOs and received much praise from players. Whenever gear has been revisited historically, any change has effected all existing instances, you don't have to refarm after a nerf for example, or when a patch buffs a set or adds/removes stats. Never has the primary content reward been replaced by a new shiny and the existing reward downgraded from veteran reward to normal. Additional rewards have been added to existing content, but as supliment to that primary reward, as extra incentive (like motifs and style pages), but never as replacement. In other words, this is a new approach for ZOS and ESO. An entirely new precedent, and one that at this point in the game's life is an unacceptable paradigm shift. So whether they u-turn or not, this decision leaves a nasty taste in my mouth and scepticism for what potential other changes lie ahead...

Elsonso

mairwen85 wrote: »

So you're saying if I run vma the day prior to greymoor release, I deserve a lesser reward to someone who runs it the day after? Same content, same effort.

Basically, yes.

I know it sounds bizarre, but if you look at all the places and situations where this sort of thing happens in every day life, it is really quite common.

Admittedly, the amount of effort that it would take to upgrade them is worth it, just in extending customer service and good customer relations.

mairwen85

Elsonso wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

So you're saying if I run vma the day prior to greymoor release, I deserve a lesser reward to someone who runs it the day after? Same content, same effort.

Basically, yes.

I know it sounds bizarre, but if you look at all the places and situations where this sort of thing happens in every day life, it is really quite common.

Admittedly, the amount of effort that it would take to upgrade them is worth it, just in extending customer service and good customer relations.

I keep saying this, but that comment I've bolded is a red herring, a total non sequitur in this discussion. It isn't the established norm in the context of this game. Analogues to every day life, other MMOs, etc do not apply -- for 6 years, ZOS have established what that norm is, and now they decide to go against it. Its their game, they can do what they want, but it's hardly clever at this stage to change that and suddenly go against a widely adopted expectation you have crafted.

zvavi

I like it how almost every comments that says it's okay for weapons not to upgrade, ends up with the argument that we should let non-perfected drop in normal.

Nobody is trying to stop maelstrom weapons from dropping on normal. Is it that hard to understand that we are ok with maelstrom weapons to drop on normal? That all we want is for them to upgrade weapons that dropped on vet, to weapons that will drop on vet?

Tbh I don't mind farming vMA again, I do it anyway for weekly weekly, but it doesn't mean that this whole thing leaves a good taste in my mouth you know what I mean? And I am terrified to think about the feelings of those that straggled with the content to farm it.

Acharnor

Them not automatically upgrading the ones I have is very disappointing but its not a deal breaker for me. Actually I am more likely to run the dang thing now for the weapons for more of my characters. I have zero problem with the normal version dropping the weapons. I think its exciting and will give those who could not do it new toys to play with. It has been out for a long time.

I don't see myself going back in to get the perfected - felt accomplished enough getting out of vet alive a few times. I really think for your average player this is largely a non issue and a benefit.

Moose_Scout

mavfin wrote: »

Moose_Scout wrote: »

furiouslog wrote: »

When will we get a response about this issue?

I just looked on Dev Tracker for the last month. They are only responding to posts that deal with financial issues now. I don't think gameplay or community is a concern anymore.

Maybe they've already said all they're going to say on this subject. Just because you keep screaming about something they've already answered, that doesn't mean they're not listening. It's already been answered, so they're not going to repeat it.

Don't confuse "They're not listening" with "They're not doing what I want!!!"

I am listening. They made a decision but didn't give any reasoning or justification. Since this sets a precedent for future patches, I am REALLY listening.

I want an explanation. Yes, I disagree, but maybe I would change my mind with any explanation. Usually sound decisions have reasoning behind them. This is a major decision since gear hasn't been just completely de-graded since One Tamriel came out 5 years ago. Has gear been nerfed, buffed, changed? Yes, degraded? No.

This a decision that changes the pattern ZOS has followed for 5 years. Maybe you should pay more attention. Or maybe you haven't been around long enough to see the implications behind this. Whatever the case, the above is an example of making a decision based on reasoning with an explanation...see how that works?

JusticeSouldier

Acharnor wrote: »

Them not automatically upgrading the ones I have is very disappointing but its not a deal breaker for me. Actually I am more likely to run the dang thing now for the weapons for more of my characters. I have zero problem with the normal version dropping the weapons. I think its exciting and will give those who could not do it new toys to play with. It has been out for a long time.

I don't see myself going back in to get the perfected - felt accomplished enough getting out of vet alive a few times. I really think for your average player this is largely a non issue and a benefit.

it's about attitute to player's time and efforts spent on farming gear in the past.
This thing is a sign of a very [snip], disrespectfull new Zos policy.
[snip]...and it's almost same bad as above described...

[edited for bashing]

nalimoleb14_ESO

It’s a new low for Zenimax. A steady trail of complete dumpster fire decisions coming from company that’s ill-equipped to make these types of decisions. The best part is that they offered no explanation or rationale behind this blatant slap in the face (that they claim the players asked for) and will do what they always do - take cover, wait out the backlash for a few weeks and then come back out when it’s safe to make more garbage decisions. I have never played a more unstable game where the developers just seem determined to *** off as much of their player base as they possibly can.

Evergnar

Pure lazy developing to get people to repeat the same content. They could have easily just made lower tier weapons for normal.

Tommy_The_Gun

Whatever you grinded vMA or vDA and have those weapons or not, it is pretty dangerous what ZOS is doing, as it may (and I assume will) affect you at some point.

Basically, ZOS is buffing gear set in the place where it drops, but not the ones you already grinded for (the ones in your inventory, whatever it is, crafted, overland, dungeon etc).

Also, they are doing something that they have never done before:
They are adding new sets, without adding new content. Normally when they did not added new content, they would update / alter existing sets. But this time it is different. They replace one set with another, better one. And this means that the one you have in your inventory, that you spend X amount of time in getting, is now inferior.

Why I have said it is important and affects every player ? Well, imagine if they did something like that to other sets. For example, perfected crafted sets, or perfected overland sets... imagine one day from now on, X crafting station produces way better set that you have crafted a while back. All those crafting mats & gold upgrade mats ? It was wasted...

Sure, crafted vs vMA is kinda beyond compare as it requires way more grinding, but still... it is some amount of time & effort you have to sacrifice - whatever it means - farming mats or doing hard dungeons.

I do hope it is not the case, but it seems ZOS is testing waters here...

mairwen85

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Whatever you grinded vMA or vDA and have those weapons or not, it is pretty dangerous what ZOS is doing, as it may (and I assume will) affect you at some point.

Basically, ZOS is buffing gear set in the place where it drops, but not the ones you already grinded for (the ones in your inventory, whatever it is, crafted, overland, dungeon etc).

Also, they are doing something that they have never done before:
They are adding new sets, without adding new content. Normally when they did not added new content, they would update / alter existing sets. But this time it is different. They replace one set with another, better one. And this means that the one you have in your inventory, that you spend X amount of time in getting, is now inferior.

Why I have said it is important and affects every player ? Well, imagine if they did something like that to other sets. For example, perfected crafted sets, or perfected overland sets... imagine one day from now on, X crafting station produces way better set that you have crafted a while back. All those crafting mats & gold upgrade mats ? It was wasted...

Sure, crafted vs vMA is kinda beyond compare as it requires way more grinding, but still... it is some amount of time & effort you have to sacrifice - whatever it means - farming mats or doing hard dungeons.

I do hope it is not the case, but it seems ZOS is testing waters here...

Thank you for restating that so eloquently. This is the point I've been trying to make across several posts. Regardless of it being the arena weapons this pass, the methodology at play here sets a tone for the future and god knows what else to receive the same treatment. That is a much bigger concern with far wider implications.

carlos424

While the VMA/VDSA weapons not being adjusted is a kick in the teeth, the real kick below the belt is the downgrade of the perfected asylum destro. They have made this weapon useless now, and only because it was over performing with MagDK’s. No other reason. So rather than fix that one issue, which they did with the burning proc, they destroy the entire line for every other class/build. Typical.

nalimoleb14_ESO

There are many ways that Zenimax could have compromised here, for example anyone who has already farmed VMA or VDSA gets one weapon upgraded to perfected. I mean, SOMETHING to prove that they're not as [snip] as their decisions lead us to believe.

[Minor Edit for Baiting]

Moose_Scout

Posting, hoping for a Dev Response