Update 26 Combat Preview

big_ear_midget

Not upgrading vMA and vDSA weapons automatically blows hard.

As someone with a total of 55 maelstrom and masters weapons including 8 bows and 4 inferno staves this heavily affects me. Screw a token system, even with 10 runs per token have you any idea how long it will take to re-farm all that gear, transmute it and gold it out or the huge expense?

There should be a direct 1 for 1 swap, like for like, no tokens, no keys, no re-farming.

Currently you`re saying that the difference in running vet pre nerf is worth less than 3k gold for the same weapon post nerf. Thats using ps4 EU pricing for 3 mastics to upgrade to the very same weapon we have now. No difference but the quality... even tho nMA is 100 times easier and no struggle at all even for new players. Is our effort worth so little?

Unfortunately there may actually be a genuine reason they cant upgrade our current gear to perfect. I could be remembering this wrong, but isnt there something about transmuting and either deconstructing or learning a trait from transmuted weapons where you get either the original trait gem or learn the original trait and not the transmuted one?

If they upgraded the current weapons would all our transmuted be perfect but in our old traits? For those that got perfect drops they`d be fine, For everyone else it`d be a waste of transmute stones. Would the quality drop from gold to purple also wasting hundreds of rosin? For some (myself included) that`d be far better than having to farm those places again but the outcry would be just as bad, why does X have his in gold and perfect trait when i had to transmute mine again and gold it out. It`d be perceived as unfair (btw, it is). I cant think of a way if this is the genuine reason how Zo$ could fix that. I cant see them flooding us with transmute to make up for it or to mail out thousands of rosin.

As i said, i could be remembering it wrong and i`m sure someone with more knowledge of the transmute trait decon/research glitch can correct this post.

Personally i wont be farming this gear again and more than likely my future subscription will weigh heavily on the outcome of this. I had already decided to hold off on buying Greymoor (not that its available to us ps4 scrubs anyway) until the lag and bugs actually get some well needed attention so putting eso+ on hold for awhile wont bother me overly.

Low move wheeler...

Wlnamp

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Your current VMA and DSA Weapons will not be automatically upgraded to Perfected versions.

https://coub.com/view/12ou14

Finedaible

2020 says: "I can do worse."

Zo$ says: "Hold my beer..." *flips off loyal players and undermines their time and effort.*

Inb4 they start offering transmute tokens in the cash-grab shop after this goes live.

Varana

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Your current VMA and DSA Weapons will not be automatically upgraded to Perfected versions.

What I find very peculiar is that this bit of crucial info didn't make it into the actual announcement but had to be added later. Did the author assume that the change would not be a big deal, and felt no need to clarify? If so, this is a worrying sign of being ridiulously out-of-touch.
I can't think of any other reason.

Also,

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote:

We hope these updates enhance your day to day adventures in ESO

does this qualify as baiting?
Is this irony?
Condescending?
I don't know.
How on earth could the author think that this sentence would be appropriate?

BENNYB0Y

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Your current VMA and DSA Weapons will not be automatically upgraded to Perfected versions.

Is this a late April fools joke? Come on Brian

Frankieluv14

Once I felt proud that I was in the top percent of players that could complete vMA. That is saying something for a working mother of 2 under 8 kiddos, that suffers from carpal tunnel syndrome and the constant real life hm of a child on the spectrum. Despite these obstacles I ran vMA. I geared out my toons, practiced my rotation and ran it, and ran it, and ran it. There were many points in that journey where tears were cried, controllers launched and cowering in the closet coming to terms with inadequacies were experienced- and not by my children. However in my quest to become a better player I had to endure, and I did. 100 runs, 100+ hours and about 50 gal of wine later I had the 3 items I needed, the bragging rights to have done it and the joy and relief that I didn’t ever have to go back in.
Now @ZOS_BrianWheeler you slap me in the face Sir. You take away everything -my pride, my relief, and my time enjoying the game doing things I want to do. You depreciate my investment in this game and it hurts -emotionally and physically.
I understand you are closing the gap and please do! Help me make that jump from 35k to 50k DPS without a flawless rotation, hitting every single light attack perfectly. Yes we are ALL with you there. Please don’t penalize those of us that already put the effort in, trying our best to play the game as your team designed it.
Thank you for your consideration, I’m off to call the doctors office for a refill on pain killers and anti inflammatories in preparation of another 100 hours of vMA “fun” to maintain my 35k DPS. 😞

Crobazrian

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Greetings Gang!

We’d like to take a moment to share a preview of combat updates coming with Update 26 (Greymoor). The full list of changes will be revealed with the patch notes next week, but for now we’d like to provide some insight on our goals. This update is primarily focused on reinforcing itemization standards, improving quality of life for werewolves, and a few adjustments regarding PvP balance. As many of you are already aware, the team recently experimented with some significant changes to Light and Heavy Attacks. We’d like to again thank everyone who participated in the off-cycle PTS test of those changes, and remind you all that those changes will not be included with Update 26. Today, we’ll be focusing on the other changes that will be appearing next week on the PTS for Update 26.

U26 not only has Vampire updates, but Werewolf updates as well! We want to keep the “in your face” action of the Werewolf and also want to add rotation options when you’ve transformed into this ferocious form. For example, Pounce now has a follow up attack afterwards that also has an execute scaled on Bleed. We’re also making adjustments to allow buffing and debuffing to give a sense of being a pack leader. Sustain for werewolves is also something we noted needs an adjustment, so Hircine’s Bounty now has some added functionality if you’re already at full health and don’t need the heal from the ability. We believe these changes will keep the Werewolf playstyle competitive and entertaining for all players!

About a year ago, we started our standardization pass and we’re finishing that off in U26 with Monster Masks/Shoulders. Remember standards aren’t written in stone, but we now have equal measures of power and performance from these 2 piece sets; some are having their 1 piece adjusted to better suit the function of the set. Valkyn Skoria, for example, now gives Spell Penetration rather than Max Health as this is a damage-based set.

Other sets are receiving functionality adjustments (damage values, trigger conditions, cooldowns, etc.) to follow their intended functionality based on their sourcing. A good example of this is Tremorscale: enemies hit by the damaging effect of this ability are no longer snared, but instead have their Physical Resistance reduced. To help with performance, some sets are having their “chance to proc” removed and instead now have a cooldown. Again, we’ll look at Tremorscale as an example: we are removing the proc chance from this set and increasing the cooldown damage. Note that because the cooldown is increasing, the damage is also increasing.

Continuing on itemization, we are also introducing Perfected Veteran Maelstrom and Perfected Dragonstar Arena weapons. This has been a long standing request by the players, and it finally brings these two arenas up to par with others that add Perfected versions. These are earned by completing Veteran mode in each of those arenas and will have additional bonuses much like other Perfected sets. Completing Maelstrom or Dragonstar Arena will now grant Blue versions of the non-perfected weapons from these arenas. In this pass, we are making a few adjustments to ALL Arena weapons to meet standards. One example of this is the BRP weapon set Spectral Cloak: this item set now increases your damage done and reduces your damage taken whenever you deal damage with Blade Cloak, rather than granting Major Protection for 3 seconds after casting. This fits the concept of Blade cloak as it deals with damage as well as protection.

Lastly, in this update we are making some small adjustments to Critical Resistance and Healing affecting PvP specifically. Over the years, we’ve seen healing become quite volatile in PvP with the ability to negate a high amount of damage in just 1 ability cast for many players at once. This isn’t just 1 ability that causes this type of health bar swinging, so we are making adjustments to Battlespirit which now reduces healing taken by 60% instead of 50%.

Gearing up for PvP isn’t a simple task because of the need for Critical Resistance. The other issue regarding itemization in PvP is that it’s very limiting due to the need for building Critical Resistance. This means other popular traits and builds aren’t as viable in PvP unless you’re a glass cannon or top-end player. To bring more viable stat and set combinations into PvP play, we are now granting a baseline Critical Resistance. In conjunction with that change, we are making several adjustments to item sets which grant Critical Resistance. We also are making changes to the Impenetrable trait by reducing the value.

We hope these updates enhance your day to day adventures in ESO, and we’ll see you in Tamriel! We look forward to your feedback regarding the changes above, as well as item sets and your general playtesting experience when Update 26 hits PTS next week!

Crobazrian

I’ve gone along with and adapted to all the constant changes, updates, nerfs, buffs, etc. and never complained, never replied negatively to anything. But not upgrading our vMA weapons that we worked our rears off earning and all the transmute crystals earned and spent on them, forcing us to waste our time re-farming the new perfected weapons, why? Just why? This is a slap in the face to your loyal players that have worked really hard in your game. I am an older gamer, ESO in fact was the first game I have ever played. I struggle a lot in the harder content and I worked really hard to achieve things like vet Maelstrom completion and spent months farming all my weapons. I want to spend my time in the new content, I only have so much gaming time available. I deeply hope you guys reconsider, if you don’t it really shows how little you care about your long term players. If the team keeps making decisions like this pretty soon all you will have are the new players you are catering to.

blkjag

madarame_77 wrote: »

Why does everyone feel punished about not being upgraded on their VMA weapons? No one is taking them away from you. They are just adding the upgraded versions into the game. Also, they give the opportunity to use vma weapons for 99% of playerbase who can't beat vma. I applaud this move to reduce the dps gap between top players and the base which everyone is talking about. I actually wrote a while ago with the suggestion to let people buy vma weapons. This upcoming decision is actually much better.

It’s clear you haven’t beaten vma and had to farm a weapon from there.

silvereyes

Kingslayer513 wrote: »

It's not the name of the item but the item ID that ties to the database backend. I'm sure ZOS added new item IDs for the new perfected weapons, and considers it too much trouble to go swap everyone's old weapons to the new item IDs.

They don't even need to do that. Just make the existing item ids the perfected ones, and create new item ids for the new nMA, nDSA weapons. Problem solved with a minimum of effort.

It's not laziness. It's either technical incompetence, malevolence, or a complete lack of understanding and respect for what impact this will have on their player base. Given their history of changes over the last several years, my money is on the last one.

Wonks

madarame_77 wrote: »

Why does everyone feel punished about not being upgraded on their VMA weapons? No one is taking them away from you. They are just adding the upgraded versions into the game. Also, they give the opportunity to use vma weapons for 99% of playerbase who can't beat vma. I applaud this move to reduce the dps gap between top players and the base which everyone is talking about. I actually wrote a while ago with the suggestion to let people buy vma weapons. This upcoming decision is actually much better.

I've already completed this content at maximum difficulty to the point where I don't need more weapons. People who did not put in the effort are now going to be able to receive these same rewards for doing easier content while I'm forced to repeat something which I find trivial just so I can use the upgraded variants that I am rightfully entitled to (for having done vMA ad nauseam).

DUNKATRUCK

I agree with much that has already been stated in this thread regarding the currently earned vMA and vDSA weapons not being updated to perfected at the changeover. I just do not see the logic behind this decision. If this is how it is going to be then my hope would be tha ZOS shares the logic and any corresponding data that led to this decision.

I am not sure how many companies and in what industry that companies have this level of communication and direct feedback from the consumers of their products than the video game industry. One would think that these creators/developers would utilize this very direct and specific feedback 100% of the time. This information should be used to make the best informed decisions to keep the overall community engaged, excited, and most of all playing the game. Engaged players equals money spent for the company. Thinking of it in terms like this only amplifies the fact that this decision does not make any sense to the people that spend time and money supporting these games.

xaraan

blkjag wrote: »

madarame_77 wrote: »

Why does everyone feel punished about not being upgraded on their VMA weapons? No one is taking them away from you. They are just adding the upgraded versions into the game. Also, they give the opportunity to use vma weapons for 99% of playerbase who can't beat vma. I applaud this move to reduce the dps gap between top players and the base which everyone is talking about. I actually wrote a while ago with the suggestion to let people buy vma weapons. This upcoming decision is actually much better.

It’s clear you haven’t beaten vma and had to farm a weapon from there.

Whether they've beat it or not is actually irrelevant on the argument IMO. Their logic is flawed regardless.

ZoS does not make someone refarm gear everytime they nerf or buff a gear set, why now? They did not grandfather the old 'perfect' versions of MA weapons when they took the one piece away. Why now are the grandfathering these and turning them into Normal versions?

No person that comes along and does the normal version of MA a month from now deserves the same level of weapon as someone that did Veteran version today, yesterday, last year or four years ago.

And no person that does Vet a month from now deserves a better version of that drop than someone that did that same content previously.

This is not new gear and new content.

This is taking veteran drops, converting them to normal drops, and then saying, do it again to all those players if you want your veteran drop again.

Doesn't matter if they buff or nerf the item a little, a lot, etc. Players that ran vet MA deserve vet MA drops before or after the patch. End of story.

Sneaky-Snurr

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Greetings Gang!

(...)

Lastly, in this update we are making some small adjustments to Critical Resistance and Healing affecting PvP specifically. Over the years, we’ve seen healing become quite volatile in PvP with the ability to negate a high amount of damage in just 1 ability cast for many players at once. This isn’t just 1 ability that causes this type of health bar swinging, so we are making adjustments to Battlespirit which now reduces healing taken by 60% instead of 50%.

Gearing up for PvP isn’t a simple task because of the need for Critical Resistance. The other issue regarding itemization in PvP is that it’s very limiting due to the need for building Critical Resistance. This means other popular traits and builds aren’t as viable in PvP unless you’re a glass cannon or top-end player. To bring more viable stat and set combinations into PvP play, we are now granting a baseline Critical Resistance. In conjunction with that change, we are making several adjustments to item sets which grant Critical Resistance. We also are making changes to the Impenetrable trait by reducing the value.

We hope these updates enhance your day to day adventures in ESO, and we’ll see you in Tamriel! We look forward to your feedback regarding the changes above, as well as item sets and your general playtesting experience when Update 26 hits PTS next week!

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Dear, Brian. I disagree with your proposed 20% effective healing nerf by way of Battle Spirit. What this will do is effectively killing off no-CP PVP Cyro and BGs. It encourages people to ball up and zerg up to do skirmishes. Small scales will not stand a chance against medium sized group in Cyro.

May I suggest an alternative solution to the Battle Spirit adjustments.
Alternatives to the healing nerfs:
1. Limiting the number of cross heals or reduce the amount of heals by x% a player can receive from 'foreign' heal sources (ie. anything other than self-initiated heals). Maybe a limit to how many 'foreign' sources can be stacked on a player too. That will nerf zergs and ball groups effectively since there's only so much heals a player can receive.

2. CP adjustments - Reduce significantly the amount of healing % bonus from red and blue CP trees to 5% each for a total of 10% more extra healing compared to the current Live 30% heal buff.

John_Falstaff

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Greetings Gang!

(...)

Lastly, in this update we are making some small adjustments to Critical Resistance and Healing affecting PvP specifically. Over the years, we’ve seen healing become quite volatile in PvP with the ability to negate a high amount of damage in just 1 ability cast for many players at once. This isn’t just 1 ability that causes this type of health bar swinging, so we are making adjustments to Battlespirit which now reduces healing taken by 60% instead of 50%.

Gearing up for PvP isn’t a simple task because of the need for Critical Resistance. The other issue regarding itemization in PvP is that it’s very limiting due to the need for building Critical Resistance. This means other popular traits and builds aren’t as viable in PvP unless you’re a glass cannon or top-end player. To bring more viable stat and set combinations into PvP play, we are now granting a baseline Critical Resistance. In conjunction with that change, we are making several adjustments to item sets which grant Critical Resistance. We also are making changes to the Impenetrable trait by reducing the value.

We hope these updates enhance your day to day adventures in ESO, and we’ll see you in Tamriel! We look forward to your feedback regarding the changes above, as well as item sets and your general playtesting experience when Update 26 hits PTS next week!

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Dear, Brian. I disagree with your proposed 20% effective healing nerf by way of Battle Spirit.

May I suggest an alternative solution to the Battle Spirit adjustments.
Alternatives to the healing nerfs:
1. Limiting the number of cross heals or reduce the amount of heals by x% a player can receive from 'foreign' heal sources (ie. anything other than self-initiated heals). Maybe a limit to how many can be stacked on a player too. That will nerf zergs and ball groups effectively since there's only so much heals a player can receive.

2. CP adjustments - Reduce significantly the amount of healing % bonus from red and blue CP trees to 5% each for a total of 10% more extra healing compared to the current Live 30% heal buff.

Nah. I rather welcome the way that doesn't touch PvE. Enough PvE nerfs already, healing in PvE is fine and doesn't need to be touched. Unless all your proposals will be done through Battle Spirit as well (though not sure how you would adjust CPs with that).

AlienatedGoat

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Your current VMA and DSA Weapons will not be automatically upgraded to Perfected versions.

I get you think you're making a helpful change to the meta to aid newer players.

What you need to understand is you're doing it at the expense of the vets who've grinded vMA over the past 4+ years.

Don't screw us over. Upgrade the damn weapons.

MLGProPlayer

AlienatedGoat wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Your current VMA and DSA Weapons will not be automatically upgraded to Perfected versions.

I get you think you're making a helpful change to the meta to aid newer players.

What you need to understand is you're doing it at the expense of the vets who've grinded vMA over the past 4+ years.

Don't screw us over. Upgrade the damn weapons.

What Brian and crew don't realize is that they don't need to *** ANYONE over with this change.

Add a new item ID for the normal weapons.

Upgrade existing weapons.

I know it's a crazy concept, but it's possible to make a change that doesn't *** off a huge chunk of your player base.

Dracane

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Greetings Gang!

(...)

Lastly, in this update we are making some small adjustments to Critical Resistance and Healing affecting PvP specifically. Over the years, we’ve seen healing become quite volatile in PvP with the ability to negate a high amount of damage in just 1 ability cast for many players at once. This isn’t just 1 ability that causes this type of health bar swinging, so we are making adjustments to Battlespirit which now reduces healing taken by 60% instead of 50%.

Gearing up for PvP isn’t a simple task because of the need for Critical Resistance. The other issue regarding itemization in PvP is that it’s very limiting due to the need for building Critical Resistance. This means other popular traits and builds aren’t as viable in PvP unless you’re a glass cannon or top-end player. To bring more viable stat and set combinations into PvP play, we are now granting a baseline Critical Resistance. In conjunction with that change, we are making several adjustments to item sets which grant Critical Resistance. We also are making changes to the Impenetrable trait by reducing the value.

We hope these updates enhance your day to day adventures in ESO, and we’ll see you in Tamriel! We look forward to your feedback regarding the changes above, as well as item sets and your general playtesting experience when Update 26 hits PTS next week!

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Dear, Brian. I disagree with your proposed 20% effective healing nerf by way of Battle Spirit. What this will do is effectively killing off no-CP PVP Cyro and BGs. It encourages people to ball up and zerg up to do skirmishes. Small scales will not stand a chance against medium sized group in Cyro.

May I suggest an alternative solution to the Battle Spirit adjustments.
Alternatives to the healing nerfs:
1. Limiting the number of cross heals or reduce the amount of heals by x% a player can receive from 'foreign' heal sources (ie. anything other than self-initiated heals). Maybe a limit to how many 'foreign' sources can be stacked on a player too. That will nerf zergs and ball groups effectively since there's only so much heals a player can receive.

2. CP adjustments - Reduce significantly the amount of healing % bonus from red and blue CP trees to 5% each for a total of 10% more extra healing compared to the current Live 30% heal buff.

This statement that is brought up over and over is quite ignorant. Cross healing is not nearly the only reason or the reason why we have a tank meta.

Everyone but potatoes has over the top healing even without the help of others. To a point where any sustained damage pressure is pointless and due to the high mitigation Necromancers, Wardens and Templars have, not even burst really works anymore.

A 10% base reduction is justified to bring the general level down. But I agree, this can't be all. Because it will not change anything about the power ratio. Everyone will have weaker heals, but it won't change that overperforming builds are still overperforming over others or that cross healing does not care about a 10% decrease at all.

I think we need the proposed changes and changes in detail to specifically overperforming stuff and cross healing. Yet the start is good.

MLGProPlayer

Healing in PvE should not be touched. Healers are already unnecessary in all but the most difficult content.

Dracane

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Healing in PvE should not be touched. Healers are already unnecessary in all but the most difficult content.

I do not feel that way. I feel impactful and needed even in dungeons. A healer not only heals, but provides so much other useful stuff. Even when I run with good players, those rarely have any healing on their own and I allow them to go fully offensive. And with pugs, well they definately need healing in any content. I do not put anything into blessed (do not want to respec for trash content) and I overheal alot anyway. Healing is so immense in pve, your ally needs to get 1 shotted in order to die.

Even when I tank, I appreciate healers more than I used to. Synergies and sustain sets are so valueable. I thank everyone who decides for this playstyle.

Sabretusks

madarame_77 wrote: »

Why does everyone feel punished about not being upgraded on their VMA weapons? No one is taking them away from you. They are just adding the upgraded versions into the game. Also, they give the opportunity to use vma weapons for 99% of playerbase who can't beat vma. I applaud this move to reduce the dps gap between top players and the base which everyone is talking about. I actually wrote a while ago with the suggestion to let people buy vma weapons. This upcoming decision is actually much better.

People are angry because they have to do literally the same thing we’ve already done hundreds, if not thousands of times to get the rewards that we would be getting from the EXACT same content. We earned stuff exclusively from completing this content on veteran mode at the difficulty it would take to get the upgraded stuff. It’s not new content, or even a step up in difficulty. It’s even more of a slap in the face to those who farmed their weapons before transmuting was available, or when the DPS output was lower, or back before it saved progress or had a guaranteed drop. The very least they could do is acknowledge those players time and efforts by changing the weapon to its appropriate Perfected status level at update 26.

I’m not above people at the beginner to intermediate level having a power boost. They obviously have imperfect versions of the more recent trial and dungeon setups, and that’s cool. But most of us don’t want to re-farm something we already farmed on the same exact difficulty for a crap RNG chance of getting something useful. Add in the farming transmutes, gold mats, and time spent and you’ve got 22 pages of angry responses.

Sneaky-Snurr

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Greetings Gang!

(...)

Lastly, in this update we are making some small adjustments to Critical Resistance and Healing affecting PvP specifically. Over the years, we’ve seen healing become quite volatile in PvP with the ability to negate a high amount of damage in just 1 ability cast for many players at once. This isn’t just 1 ability that causes this type of health bar swinging, so we are making adjustments to Battlespirit which now reduces healing taken by 60% instead of 50%.

Gearing up for PvP isn’t a simple task because of the need for Critical Resistance. The other issue regarding itemization in PvP is that it’s very limiting due to the need for building Critical Resistance. This means other popular traits and builds aren’t as viable in PvP unless you’re a glass cannon or top-end player. To bring more viable stat and set combinations into PvP play, we are now granting a baseline Critical Resistance. In conjunction with that change, we are making several adjustments to item sets which grant Critical Resistance. We also are making changes to the Impenetrable trait by reducing the value.

We hope these updates enhance your day to day adventures in ESO, and we’ll see you in Tamriel! We look forward to your feedback regarding the changes above, as well as item sets and your general playtesting experience when Update 26 hits PTS next week!

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Dear, Brian. I disagree with your proposed 20% effective healing nerf by way of Battle Spirit.

May I suggest an alternative solution to the Battle Spirit adjustments.
Alternatives to the healing nerfs:
1. Limiting the number of cross heals or reduce the amount of heals by x% a player can receive from 'foreign' heal sources (ie. anything other than self-initiated heals). Maybe a limit to how many can be stacked on a player too. That will nerf zergs and ball groups effectively since there's only so much heals a player can receive.

2. CP adjustments - Reduce significantly the amount of healing % bonus from red and blue CP trees to 5% each for a total of 10% more extra healing compared to the current Live 30% heal buff.

Nah. I rather welcome the way that doesn't touch PvE. Enough PvE nerfs already, healing in PvE is fine and doesn't need to be touched. Unless all your proposals will be done through Battle Spirit as well (though not sure how you would adjust CPs with that).

@John_Falstaff
I understand your reasoning behind the CP suggestion. In that case, I vouch for my 1st alternative suggestion. As for the 2nd one, I think a better way is to just remove CP out of PvP. That way, PvE works almost completely independent to PvP in terms of extra 'buffs' gained from CP trees.

Dracane wrote: »

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Greetings Gang!

(...)

Lastly, in this update we are making some small adjustments to Critical Resistance and Healing affecting PvP specifically. Over the years, we’ve seen healing become quite volatile in PvP with the ability to negate a high amount of damage in just 1 ability cast for many players at once. This isn’t just 1 ability that causes this type of health bar swinging, so we are making adjustments to Battlespirit which now reduces healing taken by 60% instead of 50%.

Gearing up for PvP isn’t a simple task because of the need for Critical Resistance. The other issue regarding itemization in PvP is that it’s very limiting due to the need for building Critical Resistance. This means other popular traits and builds aren’t as viable in PvP unless you’re a glass cannon or top-end player. To bring more viable stat and set combinations into PvP play, we are now granting a baseline Critical Resistance. In conjunction with that change, we are making several adjustments to item sets which grant Critical Resistance. We also are making changes to the Impenetrable trait by reducing the value.

We hope these updates enhance your day to day adventures in ESO, and we’ll see you in Tamriel! We look forward to your feedback regarding the changes above, as well as item sets and your general playtesting experience when Update 26 hits PTS next week!

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Dear, Brian. I disagree with your proposed 20% effective healing nerf by way of Battle Spirit. What this will do is effectively killing off no-CP PVP Cyro and BGs. It encourages people to ball up and zerg up to do skirmishes. Small scales will not stand a chance against medium sized group in Cyro.

May I suggest an alternative solution to the Battle Spirit adjustments.
Alternatives to the healing nerfs:
1. Limiting the number of cross heals or reduce the amount of heals by x% a player can receive from 'foreign' heal sources (ie. anything other than self-initiated heals). Maybe a limit to how many 'foreign' sources can be stacked on a player too. That will nerf zergs and ball groups effectively since there's only so much heals a player can receive.

2. CP adjustments - Reduce significantly the amount of healing % bonus from red and blue CP trees to 5% each for a total of 10% more extra healing compared to the current Live 30% heal buff.

This statement that is brought up over and over is quite ignorant. Cross healing is not nearly the only reason or the reason why we have a tank meta.

Everyone but potatoes has over the top healing even without the help of others. To a point where any sustained damage pressure is pointless and due to the high mitigation Necromancers, Wardens and Templars have, not even burst really works anymore.

A 10% base reduction is justified to bring the general level down. But I agree, this can't be all. Because it will not change anything about the power ratio. Everyone will have weaker heals, but it won't change that overperforming builds are still overperforming over others or that cross healing does not care about a 10% decrease at all.

I think we need the proposed changes and changes in detail to specifically overperforming stuff and cross healing. Yet the start is good.

@Dracane
I'm confused. So what exactly are you proposing instead? You do realise that 20% healing nerf is waay too much.

Dracane

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Greetings Gang!

(...)

Lastly, in this update we are making some small adjustments to Critical Resistance and Healing affecting PvP specifically. Over the years, we’ve seen healing become quite volatile in PvP with the ability to negate a high amount of damage in just 1 ability cast for many players at once. This isn’t just 1 ability that causes this type of health bar swinging, so we are making adjustments to Battlespirit which now reduces healing taken by 60% instead of 50%.

Gearing up for PvP isn’t a simple task because of the need for Critical Resistance. The other issue regarding itemization in PvP is that it’s very limiting due to the need for building Critical Resistance. This means other popular traits and builds aren’t as viable in PvP unless you’re a glass cannon or top-end player. To bring more viable stat and set combinations into PvP play, we are now granting a baseline Critical Resistance. In conjunction with that change, we are making several adjustments to item sets which grant Critical Resistance. We also are making changes to the Impenetrable trait by reducing the value.

We hope these updates enhance your day to day adventures in ESO, and we’ll see you in Tamriel! We look forward to your feedback regarding the changes above, as well as item sets and your general playtesting experience when Update 26 hits PTS next week!

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Dear, Brian. I disagree with your proposed 20% effective healing nerf by way of Battle Spirit.

May I suggest an alternative solution to the Battle Spirit adjustments.
Alternatives to the healing nerfs:
1. Limiting the number of cross heals or reduce the amount of heals by x% a player can receive from 'foreign' heal sources (ie. anything other than self-initiated heals). Maybe a limit to how many can be stacked on a player too. That will nerf zergs and ball groups effectively since there's only so much heals a player can receive.

2. CP adjustments - Reduce significantly the amount of healing % bonus from red and blue CP trees to 5% each for a total of 10% more extra healing compared to the current Live 30% heal buff.

Nah. I rather welcome the way that doesn't touch PvE. Enough PvE nerfs already, healing in PvE is fine and doesn't need to be touched. Unless all your proposals will be done through Battle Spirit as well (though not sure how you would adjust CPs with that).

@John_Falstaff
I understand your reasoning behind the CP suggestion. In that case, I vouch for my 1st alternative suggestion. As for the 2nd one, I think a better way is to just remove CP out of PvP. That way, PvE works almost completely independent to PvP in terms of extra 'buffs' gained from CP trees.

Dracane wrote: »

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Greetings Gang!

(...)

Lastly, in this update we are making some small adjustments to Critical Resistance and Healing affecting PvP specifically. Over the years, we’ve seen healing become quite volatile in PvP with the ability to negate a high amount of damage in just 1 ability cast for many players at once. This isn’t just 1 ability that causes this type of health bar swinging, so we are making adjustments to Battlespirit which now reduces healing taken by 60% instead of 50%.

Gearing up for PvP isn’t a simple task because of the need for Critical Resistance. The other issue regarding itemization in PvP is that it’s very limiting due to the need for building Critical Resistance. This means other popular traits and builds aren’t as viable in PvP unless you’re a glass cannon or top-end player. To bring more viable stat and set combinations into PvP play, we are now granting a baseline Critical Resistance. In conjunction with that change, we are making several adjustments to item sets which grant Critical Resistance. We also are making changes to the Impenetrable trait by reducing the value.

We hope these updates enhance your day to day adventures in ESO, and we’ll see you in Tamriel! We look forward to your feedback regarding the changes above, as well as item sets and your general playtesting experience when Update 26 hits PTS next week!

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Dear, Brian. I disagree with your proposed 20% effective healing nerf by way of Battle Spirit. What this will do is effectively killing off no-CP PVP Cyro and BGs. It encourages people to ball up and zerg up to do skirmishes. Small scales will not stand a chance against medium sized group in Cyro.

May I suggest an alternative solution to the Battle Spirit adjustments.
Alternatives to the healing nerfs:
1. Limiting the number of cross heals or reduce the amount of heals by x% a player can receive from 'foreign' heal sources (ie. anything other than self-initiated heals). Maybe a limit to how many 'foreign' sources can be stacked on a player too. That will nerf zergs and ball groups effectively since there's only so much heals a player can receive.

2. CP adjustments - Reduce significantly the amount of healing % bonus from red and blue CP trees to 5% each for a total of 10% more extra healing compared to the current Live 30% heal buff.

This statement that is brought up over and over is quite ignorant. Cross healing is not nearly the only reason or the reason why we have a tank meta.

Everyone but potatoes has over the top healing even without the help of others. To a point where any sustained damage pressure is pointless and due to the high mitigation Necromancers, Wardens and Templars have, not even burst really works anymore.

A 10% base reduction is justified to bring the general level down. But I agree, this can't be all. Because it will not change anything about the power ratio. Everyone will have weaker heals, but it won't change that overperforming builds are still overperforming over others or that cross healing does not care about a 10% decrease at all.

I think we need the proposed changes and changes in detail to specifically overperforming stuff and cross healing. Yet the start is good.

@Dracane
I'm confused. So what exactly are you proposing instead? You do realise that 20% healing nerf is waay too much.

I am sorry if I was unclear. Hm, I can only try to repeat what I said.
I think the decrease through battle spirit should stay as a good first step. But then they must look at the main reasons why healing is overperforming. This comes down to certain abilities and yes, cross healing being too strong.
Also that health has alot of weight at the moment. Mitigation is extremely high on some classes and with certain sets that we all know. So that health you restore, is not easy to remove again.

So in other words, damage mitigation is way too high and heals are too potent. This is not only true for groups, but nearly all individuals really.

Weapon damage allows for too much healing. Stamina classes escalate with having immense damage and alot of healing thanks to it. The Twilight Matriarch is also way too strong with its heal, as well as most healing over time.

Tommy_The_Gun

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Your current VMA and DSA Weapons will not be automatically upgraded to Perfected versions.

Right off the bat, I want to say - I am not a game developer. However, I have a lot of experience in modding games. I have done a lot of mods to other TES games - so I do believe I have a basic idea of how it works. That is why I don't buy any "it is technical issues" - because let's face it - it is not.

A lot of times, you were able to alter / change how sets works, and those were automatically updated. When you changed Iceheart set or Essence Thief set - I was not left with the previous one, but what I had was updated.

The problem is that you are trying to add new perfected sets, instead of editing the existing ones. And yes, we know it is possible to do.

- Change the name of "Maelstrom Weapon" to "Perfected Maelstrom Weapon" and buff the stats.
- Add other item with different ID and call it "Maelstrom Weapon", copy-paste current MA weapon stat, make it blue and drop on normal.

The only Technical Issue that might exists (if there are any) is maybe the name of the set. If this is the thing that you can not change (which I doubt), and the Set name is somehow hard-coded with the item ID, then simply name the non-perfected ones.... non-perfected.... Example - "Imperfect Maelstrom Weapon"

So:
vMA will drop: Cruel Flurry
nMA will drop: Imperfect Cruel Flurry

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

John_Falstaff

@Sneaky-Snurr , maybe; I can't see all possible complications it can cause, but making all PvP no-CP might actually be an interesting experiment. Though I'm curious to hear from people about state of no-CP now. Is healing not too strong there? No super tanky builds dominating everything?

Dracane wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Healing in PvE should not be touched. Healers are already unnecessary in all but the most difficult content.

I do not feel that way. I feel impactful and needed even in dungeons. A healer not only heals, but provides so much other useful stuff. Even when I run with good players, those rarely have any healing on their own and I allow them to go fully offensive. And with pugs, well they definately need healing in any content. I do not put anything into blessed (do not want to respec for trash content) and I overheal alot anyway. Healing is so immense in pve, your ally needs to get 1 shotted in order to die.

Even when I tank, I appreciate healers more than I used to. Synergies and sustain sets are so valueable. I thank everyone who decides for this playstyle.

With a heavy heart, as a PvE tank main, I have to tell you that I've just caved in and transmuted a set of Olorime jewelry for 3DD runs. ^^ They're indeed plain faster and more efficient in most dungeons. Granted, pugs die, but they're not a good measurement of how needed healer is. You can't heal a pug that stands in stupid, and there are a lot of one-shots anyway. Drop healing in PvE, and 3DD runs will only grow in popularity, and from the other side of the spectrum, things like vHoF HM final phase will become more annoying as it's a heal check (as well as damage check).

Dracane

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Sneaky-Snurr , maybe; I can't see all possible complications it can cause, but making all PvP no-CP might actually be an interesting experiment. Though I'm curious to hear from people about state of no-CP now. Is healing not too strong there? No super tanky builds dominating everything?

Dracane wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Healing in PvE should not be touched. Healers are already unnecessary in all but the most difficult content.

I do not feel that way. I feel impactful and needed even in dungeons. A healer not only heals, but provides so much other useful stuff. Even when I run with good players, those rarely have any healing on their own and I allow them to go fully offensive. And with pugs, well they definately need healing in any content. I do not put anything into blessed (do not want to respec for trash content) and I overheal alot anyway. Healing is so immense in pve, your ally needs to get 1 shotted in order to die.

Even when I tank, I appreciate healers more than I used to. Synergies and sustain sets are so valueable. I thank everyone who decides for this playstyle.

With a heavy heart, as a PvE tank main, I have to tell you that I've just caved in and transmuted a set of Olorime jewelry for 3DD runs. ^^ They're indeed plain faster and more efficient in most dungeons. Granted, pugs die, but they're not a good measurement of how needed healer is. You can't heal a pug that stands in stupid, and there are a lot of one-shots anyway. Drop healing in PvE, and 3DD runs will only grow in popularity, and from the other side of the spectrum, things like vHoF HM final phase will become more annoying as it's a heal check (as well as damage check).

That is true. When I tank I also have heals equipped to keep the 3dds alive. But that does not devaluate anything. Heals are needed and someone most supply the group with it. Whether an independant healer or I as a tank-heal do it, does not really change anything. Heals are needed and a dedicated healer does it much better as they have the freedom to supply more than just heals.

Sneaky-Snurr

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Sneaky-Snurr , maybe; I can't see all possible complications it can cause, but making all PvP no-CP might actually be an interesting experiment. Though I'm curious to hear from people about state of no-CP now. Is healing not too strong there? No super tanky builds dominating everything?

@John_Falstaff
I've been playing in No-CP since the first time it was introduced. I can tell you that unkillable super tanky builds are unheard of, it's practically non-existent in there! Also, the heals aren't too strong in there either but if you really build for a healer tank build, you're going to definitely be a really hard target to kill but not impossible to eliminate in the end.
The real problem lies with heal stacking different sources from different players by lumping in a group.

I really hope ZoS think of removing CP altogether in PvP. Sounds like it's the only way to balance PvE and PvP separately. At least that's a good start.

Elsonso

zaria wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

So does this mean everyone will have to re-farm their all time favourite; maelstrom arena?

Your existing weapons stay the same, you can get an better version, probably with the +1K resources who is standard for perfected getting it again in vet.

I think he knows that. He has probably also guessed that the difference between today's VMA weapon and the new perfected one will not be enough of a difference for a lot of people. They will simply be satisfied with the one they have, and if they happen to do VMA, and get something better, cool.

ZOS should upgrade the items, just as a sign of good faith, but if they don't, it is not the end of the world.

clocksstoppe

Was browsing to forum to see if this game is worth returning to (bored with the lockdown) and I see this. Jesus christ ZOS is more out of touch than ever. If you *** up people's VMA weapons it's not just some item nerf, it's basically a declaration that you hate your longtime veteran players.

kapachia

I am going to suck it up and do vMA again.

Perfected version better be a significant improvement, not just add 1000 stam or magicka or health.

Someone who had to do farming for a correct traits before transmutation, an implementation of transmutation cheapened a natural "sharpened" trait dagger when everyone could flaunt transmuted sharpened dagger. Basically, it is happening again. No different than transmutation system. Oh, sharpened dual-daggers were BIS back then...