ESO is too easy?

HowlKimchi

Normal and veteran is just a joke

RageKing wrote: »

if you min/max and group up with other min/maxers and wipe everything, dont start complaining about ease. Ive been plaing since launch and still find this game difficult in areas. all veteran DLC modes are pretty tough unless youve done them a bunch in which case it should get easy. If your feeling like a god just go to cyrodiil. You will get humbled

Aside from the lag and input delay, I have no problem with cyrodiil's difficulty. It's fun because it's challenging. This thread is not about PVP though. It's about how easy PVE is in the game, particularly, the overland content which is a big part of the annual releases this game has to offer.

In other MMOs, new chapters or expansions can be played with your main decked-out characters and it's still challenging. In ESO however, you kill everything within 5 seconds when you're on your main character. Including the new content which is supposed to be an "epic new story" for your characters to experience.

HowlKimchi

Normal and veteran is just a joke

-

robertthebard

It’s just as it should be

Eifleber wrote: »

Well if people find ESO just hard enough you must find other MMO's extremely difficult?

I mean the only way my new characters (with white/green gear) can die is by falling.
Or world bosses when I accidentily stumble into them.

I did some dungeons on lvl25ish. It was ridiculously easy. Most bosses just have a zillion hp but don't do any damage. Once every 2 minutes they may do a burst that takes one third of your hp away to scare you but that's it.

Never done a game this easy.

Can I use this as my signature, and then post in all the threads complaining about fake roles in normal dungeons along with something like "git gud"? I mean, I really want to take your post at face value, I really do, but I just finished reading the thread where the OP is convinced that we need a tool to lock people that queue as fake roles in dungeons out of the dungeons. Surely it must be a learn to play issue on their part, and everyone that's agreeing with them, right? /sarcasm

barney2525

Deyirn wrote: »

Starlock wrote: »

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but Elder Scrolls Online is a game. Again, perhaps I am mistaken, but games are for entertainment. That is, they are something we do for fun.

Hard isn't fun.

If I wanted to do something hard, I would not be playing games.

Yes. You are very mistaken, so much mistaken that it causes me physical pain.

Easy is OK, as long as it's the right amount of easy. Too easy, as ESO is is straight up insulting.

I can play ESO with my eyes closed and use my keyboard and mouse with my butt cheeks and I will still do fine.

The issue with this is when a game is too easy, it's both insulting and boring.

I don't know how your mind operates, but for me being presented with a challenge in a game pumps up my adrenaline, provokes me to be inventive and find a way to overcome this challenge, and succeeding at doing that is my reward, my achievement... I don't need an UI window telling me when I achieved something and when I did not - I place my own goals and I create my achievements.

Nowadays, modern MMOs cater to lazy people, entitled people and people who want to be part of something without being fit to be part of it, kinda like the whole [snip] it's just a facade.

[snip]

That's why I quit playing ESO and am now having a blast in Star Wars Galaxies Legends, Vanilla WoW and EverQuest Project 1999.

ESO is too dumbed-down to be enjoyable.

[edited for sexist remarks and baiting/bashing]

When you start something off with a statement that is just not true, you lose all credibility.

You say " Yes. You are very mistaken ... "

This is NOT a true statement. Everything you have posted is simply and Only your own personal opinion and more importantly, your own personal preference. Nothing you have written is a rule, or a law, or even a guideline.

No game - Zero, Zip, Nada - is ever going to bow to the wishes of any individual and cater to the specifics of their own personal preference. The Company makes a game. The Company decides on all aspects of play. And that Ends it. Take it or leave it. Play it or don't play it. There is NO right or wrong.

Most companies Will listen to the majority of players, and tweak their game when they see something positive.

But having you pop up and tell everyone that if they do not agree with You in all things then They are Mistaken, and you are the Only one who has the Correct view - That destroys any credibility in anything you write.

IMHO

Iccotak

It’s just as it should be

If I could change my vote, I would

Zipadeedoodah

It’s just as it should be

You definitely don't spend much time pugging. I frequently end up in random normals where my magplar is 95% of the dps, and I'm not a high end player. My best parse on a trial dummy is 75k, so I'm not a heavy hitter. In a game like ESO, that is looking to meet the needs of a large player base whose capabilities and interests range greatly, the difficulty is right where it needs to be, in my opinion.

If they were going to add anything, I'd like to see more strenuous solo content. Something like VMA but harder and with a rotating reward system to spice things up and give players a reason to return to the content each week. I really liked the solo storylines from GW1 with the EotN heroes. You were the character in the solo instance and you played through the more notable historically significant moments of their life. In ESO that would be like playing as Sai Sahan or Lyris during a particular notable moment in their past. It would be really neat, and challenging since you're not using your normal character setup, so it would be a refreshing change of pace. Offer two difficulties per usual, normal and veteran, and offer comparable rewards.

lucky_Sage

Normal and veteran is just a joke

Deyirn wrote: »

Starlock wrote: »

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but Elder Scrolls Online is a game. Again, perhaps I am mistaken, but games are for entertainment. That is, they are something we do for fun.

Hard isn't fun.

If I wanted to do something hard, I would not be playing games.

Yes. You are very mistaken, so much mistaken that it causes me physical pain.

Easy is OK, as long as it's the right amount of easy. Too easy, as ESO is is straight up insulting.

I can play ESO with my eyes closed and use my keyboard and mouse with my butt cheeks and I will still do fine.

The issue with this is when a game is too easy, it's both insulting and boring.

I don't know how your mind operates, but for me being presented with a challenge in a game pumps up my adrenaline, provokes me to be inventive and find a way to overcome this challenge, and succeeding at doing that is my reward, my achievement... I don't need an UI window telling me when I achieved something and when I did not - I place my own goals and I create my achievements.

Nowadays, modern MMOs cater to lazy people, entitled people and people who want to be part of something without being fit to be part of it, kinda like the whole [snip] it's just a facade.

[snip]

That's why I quit playing ESO and am now having a blast in Star Wars Galaxies Legends, Vanilla WoW and EverQuest Project 1999.

ESO is too dumbed-down to be enjoyable.

[edited for sexist remarks and baiting/bashing]

Don’t get why people say games should be easy if that was the case souls games would not be such a major success

Orjix

I struggle in pve zones

Noxavian wrote: »

preevious wrote: »

"As I stand atop my learning curve, with all my accumulated wisdom, I find the game too easy"

I mean, of course the base game is too easy when you know your stuff. However, it took a while to learn, and the base game is not too easy for new player, wich is .. what should be.

I invited 3 of my friends to play ESO during the f2p event. Within hours all of them agreed it was painstakingly easy, as they were able to kill practically anything without feeling threatened. Even big quest bosses were a yawn fest.

Like, maybe it'd be hard if you've never played a game before, but saying the game is hard for new players.... Lol. That's completely false.

Not every new player who has play games before finds it easy, i've tried to get a few of my gaming buddies into the game, and all 3 of the time they have all said something to the effect of "damn, why is this game so hard, all i do is die" and then they quit and never play again. that's just been my experience tho

Jacarranda

Normal content is too easy

i wish you could die from questing but other than that i think it's fine. i hate spending hours on the same trial hearing people over discord....

soulferin

Normal content is too easy

Jacarranda wrote: »

i wish you could die from questing but other than that i think it's fine. i hate spending hours on the same trial hearing people over discord....

I know! ;D

Have You Guys finished Greymoor? I mean last fight. I have no room for new chars so I did it with my main and my girlfriend and her main - it was less 10 sec and I had full vampire build on Stamblade Stage 4 obviously

RodneyRegis

It’s just as it should be

You guys get that the overland stuff is meant to be testing for people without champion points and gear, right?

finehair

It’s just as it should be

Tbh i dont get the point of these kind of questions. You are probably a veteran player who could farm/craft some good sets like %99 of other veterans. Even with 5 hundings+4 night mother's gaze all of the normal dungeons and overland content is just a walk in the park. Also the 810 champion points you have on your level 10 guy also helps when you are doing pve content just saying.
But a new player can't use these kind of stuff, they can't craft a full set of training gear to their low level characters and murder everything. Most of the people don't even know about the set bonuses until they see a proper set gear.
Sure since one tamriel it got easier, it used to be more fun when there were levelled zones if you ask me but that's my opinion.
So, if you want to play in hard mode in overland content, just use the gear you drop or can craft in your brand new character.
Try out that Iron Battleaxe of Frost while wearing only 4 piece of random rawhide armor on that troll on the way to vivec city. That's what new players are experiencing.

soulferin

Normal content is too easy

finehair wrote: »

So, if you want to play in hard mode in overland content, just use the gear you drop or can craft in your brand new character.
Try out that Iron Battleaxe of Frost while wearing only 4 piece of random rawhide armor on that troll on the way to vivec city. That's what new players are experiencing.

I know and it's great, but I can create new chars over and over again just wanted to experience quests and struggle despite my cp or gear. It would be great if veteran/normal party button would affect my stats or monster stats or even better AI.

Lysette

It’s just as it should be

soulferin wrote: »

finehair wrote: »

So, if you want to play in hard mode in overland content, just use the gear you drop or can craft in your brand new character.
Try out that Iron Battleaxe of Frost while wearing only 4 piece of random rawhide armor on that troll on the way to vivec city. That's what new players are experiencing.

I know and it's great, but I can create new chars over and over again just wanted to experience quests and struggle despite my cp or gear. It would be great if veteran/normal party button would affect my stats or monster stats or even better AI.

better AI is something what would take too much effort for ZOS -and most likely anything what is reasonable to be done for a veteran mode would be in the form of a debuff of some kind, in order to avoid having to put that content into separate instances - which would be too costly.

Grandchamp1989

It’s just as it should be

It is pretty much where is should be.

The vast majority play this game as casuals. Doesn't optimize builds, doesn't know what gear to go for or what skills are the best.

They just go by what sounds/look neat and call it the day.

If people want challenge there's:

Solo World bosses
Solo group dungeons
Veteran DLC dungeons
Vet trials
PVP

Should all give proper challenges.

It would be nice if there was an option to do overland content with a "hardmode" on. But what you gonna do.

Iccotak

It’s just as it should be

RodneyRegis wrote: »

You guys get that the overland stuff is meant to be testing for people without champion points and gear, right?

Problem with that is for long term players who are continuing the story, they have the gear and skill so the story is unenjoyable because it becomes a cakewalk. Some people like that but not everyone is happy about it.

Basically they’re told that the story isn’t for them even though it’s continuing the narrative from previous chapters, which makes little sense.

thedavidventer

It’s just as it should be

Some People: *Runs cookie cutter min-max meta builds, perfected gear, and assigns all 810 CP*

Those same people: “The game is too easy”

🙄🤦🏻‍♂️...


Maybe try something other than a cookie cutter min-max meta build or try different gear if the game is too easy. You can’t make your character god-mode powerful and then complain that the game is too easy. It’s your fault that it’s too easy. Try a different play style and stop worrying about the min-max meta stuff. There’s plenty of challenge in the game if you play around with fun and unique builds and sets other than the “must have” BIS gear and builds.

soulferin

Normal content is too easy

thedavidventer wrote: »

Some People: *Runs cookie cutter min-max meta builds, perfected gear, and assigns all 810 CP*

Those same people: “The game is too easy”

🙄🤦🏻‍♂️...


Maybe try something other than a cookie cutter min-max meta build or try different gear if the game is too easy. You can’t make your character god-mode powerful and then complain that the game is too easy. It’s your fault that it’s too easy. Try a different play style and stop worrying about the min-max meta stuff. There’s plenty of challenge in the game if you play around with fun and unique builds and sets other than the “must have” BIS gear and builds.

I run 810Cp - guilty. But at the same time I play wood elf stamina Nightblade (!) vampire (!) dw/th with only skill that looks cool (surprise, ambush, cloak, all vampire skills even drain), cleave and rally because 0hp regen and no other heal except drain), magic dmg ultimate and with gear that everyone can farm with Craglorn pugs in one weekend. Is it really the issue?

Lysette

It’s just as it should be

soulferin wrote: »

thedavidventer wrote: »

Some People: *Runs cookie cutter min-max meta builds, perfected gear, and assigns all 810 CP*

Those same people: “The game is too easy”

🙄🤦🏻‍♂️...


Maybe try something other than a cookie cutter min-max meta build or try different gear if the game is too easy. You can’t make your character god-mode powerful and then complain that the game is too easy. It’s your fault that it’s too easy. Try a different play style and stop worrying about the min-max meta stuff. There’s plenty of challenge in the game if you play around with fun and unique builds and sets other than the “must have” BIS gear and builds.

I run 810Cp - guilty. But at the same time I play wood elf stamina Nightblade (!) vampire (!) dw/th with only skill that looks cool (surprise, ambush, cloak, all vampire skills even drain), cleave and rally because 0hp regen and no other heal except drain), magic dmg ultimate and with gear that everyone can farm with Craglorn pugs in one weekend. Is it really the issue?

you do not even see anymore that a statement like "that everyone can farm with craglorn pugs in one weekend" is something far outside of the experience of a casual player.

Gnaticus

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

It is pretty much where is should be.

The vast majority play this game as casuals. Doesn't optimize builds, doesn't know what gear to go for or what skills are the best.

They just go by what sounds/look neat and call it the day.

If people want challenge there's:

Solo World bosses
Solo group dungeons
Veteran DLC dungeons
Vet trials
PVP

Should all give proper challenges.

It would be nice if there was an option to do overland content with a "hardmode" on. But what you gonna do.

I would like to add, if you really want to up the challenge:

Vet Maelstrom, in first person mode only.
Any Vet Dungeon, all members in first person mode only.

Have fun!

robertthebard

It’s just as it should be

lucky_Sage wrote: »

Deyirn wrote: »

Starlock wrote: »

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but Elder Scrolls Online is a game. Again, perhaps I am mistaken, but games are for entertainment. That is, they are something we do for fun.

Hard isn't fun.

If I wanted to do something hard, I would not be playing games.

Yes. You are very mistaken, so much mistaken that it causes me physical pain.

Easy is OK, as long as it's the right amount of easy. Too easy, as ESO is is straight up insulting.

I can play ESO with my eyes closed and use my keyboard and mouse with my butt cheeks and I will still do fine.

The issue with this is when a game is too easy, it's both insulting and boring.

I don't know how your mind operates, but for me being presented with a challenge in a game pumps up my adrenaline, provokes me to be inventive and find a way to overcome this challenge, and succeeding at doing that is my reward, my achievement... I don't need an UI window telling me when I achieved something and when I did not - I place my own goals and I create my achievements.

Nowadays, modern MMOs cater to lazy people, entitled people and people who want to be part of something without being fit to be part of it, kinda like the whole [snip] it's just a facade.

[snip]

That's why I quit playing ESO and am now having a blast in Star Wars Galaxies Legends, Vanilla WoW and EverQuest Project 1999.

ESO is too dumbed-down to be enjoyable.

[edited for sexist remarks and baiting/bashing]

Don’t get why people say games should be easy if that was the case souls games would not be such a major success

Why wouldn't they? They targeted a very specific market, and hit just the right tone with that market. They weren't built for everyone to begin with, and they're not an MMO. This gives them the freedom to build punishingly hard games, because that's what their fanbase is after. Even with that, they're getting "No damage speed runs" now. Does this mean those games are now "too easy"? What changed? I'd be willing to bet they didn't go in and stealth nerf the game to reach a broader audience, so player skill wins the day, right? Anyone expecting anything even remotely "Soulish" in an MMO is fooling themselves.

MMOs have moved towards more "Casual Friendly" game play in a lot of aspects of their game, in order to attract as large an audience as they can. This is especially true in "niche" games, like swtor, or here even. TES may be quite popular as a SP game franchise, but frankly, as a dedicated RPG fan, I've never finished Oblivion, and have over 700 hours in Skyrim, over several platforms, but they're the only two TES games I've played, and I started cRPGs with Baldur's Gate, and I'm not talking the Enhanced Edition, I bought it brand new when it first came out. I think I do own the EE, now that I think about it... Anyway, the broader the audience they can appeal to, the more money they can make, and, as much as this irritates a lot of people, that's what a business is supposed to do. I'm not here because I heard it has great gameplay, or excellent story lines, although I have found a lot of the stories interesting. I'm here because I follow Malukah, and have for years, and discovered that she did the bard songs, and performs them in game.

That a cover artist on YouTube got hired to do music in a game franchise she's been covering songs from was enough to get me to support the game with the initial purchase. That I had a good time with it after the fact was enough to cause me to stick around, somewhat sporadically... It's something that I can relate to, since I've had one of my pieces featured in an online game. Well, one module of an online game. A NWN creator that I played a lot of stuff on used my Tribute piece in a Memorial he made. It was fitting, since I composed it for a player there that had passed, and when he asked me if he could use it, I instantly said yes. So I'm more than willing to support something like that in an MMO. That the game is engaging outside of that is a bonus. I've never finished a Witcher game, I just can't get into them. I own all of them, however, because I like what CDPR does for players.

Anyway, nothing about why I'm playing ESO has anything to do with "looking for a challenge". If I wanted that, I'd still be playing Aion, since the bulk of endgame is PvP, and that's where I'd expect to find challenging gameplay. I can learn all the mechanics in the game world, I can learn all the rotations, on all the classes, and none of that guarantees I'll be competitive in PvP, because it's fluid, and changing, and one has to be able to adapt in the blink of an eye, and no matter how well a game is built, it's not going to offer that. Even the Souls games fall short of that, as tough as they are. But looking for challenging content in a medium designed to appeal to as broad an audience as possible isn't very realistic. Better to look for that where it was built into the game, instead of acting as if the only people interested in an MMO are looking for anything remotely resembling a Soul's game.

robertthebard

It’s just as it should be

soulferin wrote: »

thedavidventer wrote: »

Some People: *Runs cookie cutter min-max meta builds, perfected gear, and assigns all 810 CP*

Those same people: “The game is too easy”

🙄🤦🏻‍♂️...


Maybe try something other than a cookie cutter min-max meta build or try different gear if the game is too easy. You can’t make your character god-mode powerful and then complain that the game is too easy. It’s your fault that it’s too easy. Try a different play style and stop worrying about the min-max meta stuff. There’s plenty of challenge in the game if you play around with fun and unique builds and sets other than the “must have” BIS gear and builds.

I run 810Cp - guilty. But at the same time I play wood elf stamina Nightblade (!) vampire (!) dw/th with only skill that looks cool (surprise, ambush, cloak, all vampire skills even drain), cleave and rally because 0hp regen and no other heal except drain), magic dmg ultimate and with gear that everyone can farm with Craglorn pugs in one weekend. Is it really the issue?

Now? How were you before they nerfed it because it was too hard? Which side of the debate did you fall on? I ask because I wasn't here, if I had been, I would have been on the side of "It's fine as it is, let players looking for harder stuff have their harder stuff". The last time I left, I was playing in Craglorn, and I thought it was just fine.

olda90

I finished ESO 8 times

srfrogg23

It’s just as it should be

It's fine the way it is. MMOs are best when they provide a wide variety of difficulty levels and cater to a wide variety of players and their constantly changing moods.

cmorris975

Normal content is too easy

It's too easy in most situations. This makes it boring to play and means I rarely do.

That's too bad as I really love the game and world otherwise. But mashing the same three buttons on the next mob cluster that is the same as the last 1000 mob clusters, just with a different skin/textures on the models.... No thanks.

I keep hoping ESO will start to present more challenge outside of select group zones. Some reason to pay attention to the world. I will check back every once in awhile I guess, but not much hope as strangely (to me) this appears to be what people want.

Survival games seem to have taken over where MMOs used to be as the challenging and engrossing games.

robertthebard

It’s just as it should be

cmorris975 wrote: »

It's too easy in most situations. This makes it boring to play and means I rarely do.

That's too bad as I really love the game and world otherwise. But mashing the same three buttons on the next mob cluster that is the same as the last 1000 mob clusters, just with a different skin/textures on the models.... No thanks.

I keep hoping ESO will start to present more challenge outside of select group zones. Some reason to pay attention to the world. I will check back every once in awhile I guess, but not much hope as strangely (to me) this appears to be what people want.

Survival games seem to have taken over where MMOs used to be as the challenging and engrossing games.

You mean rotations? You're going to be in for a major shock if you ever go play any other MMO, as they all have them.

Aion, PvP/PvE? Check.
DDO PvE? Check.
BDO PvE? Check.
GW 2 PvP/PvE/WvW? Check.
swtor PvP/PvE? Check.
ESO endgame content? Check.

Chevaliemew

Normal and veteran is just a joke

Isn't it obvious. The problem will persist till another Megaserver with different version will come out. That way casual weaklings can have their easy mode ESO and players looking for challange have their own. I don't even want to hear about crap, how ESO is better as just one regional server. You can't make everyone happy with same iteration. Shame Zenimax doesn't expolit opportunity to get more dollar.

robertthebard

It’s just as it should be

Chevaliemew wrote: »

Isn't it obvious. The problem will persist till another Megaserver with different version will come out. That way casual weaklings can have their easy mode ESO and players looking for challange have their own. I don't even want to hear about crap, how ESO is better as just one regional server. You can't make everyone happy with same iteration. Shame Zenimax doesn't expolit opportunity to get more dollar.

I wonder how long you'd last? It's been my experience that people like you will be the first ones begging for a transfer off, or for nerfs to the content. I'm starting to believe that it would indeed be a good idea to make such a shard, and then lock those players on it for 6 months, to see how many of them actually rage quit because it's "stupid hard" or "didn't do it the way I thought it should be done". This is all stuff I've seen before. I'd be willing to bet the number wouldn't be insignificant. Probably a good 60% or so of people claiming it's too easy now would be out if they got a fraction of what they're asking for in the dizzying array of threads on the topic, especially if they can't just opt out of it silently, and act like they're still doing it.

Bryath

RodneyRegis wrote: »

You guys get that the overland stuff is meant to be testing for people without champion points and gear, right?

So it seems. Too bad the player will have completed maybe 10% of overland before it becomes laughably easy.

SolidusPrime

Normal content is too easy

I think veteran is just right. But normal content? I don't even have to pay attention most of the time. I can literally just glance at the monitor every now and then while I'm watching a show to make sure I'm near the party, and mindlessly spam buttons in any order. Don't even have to dodge the red most of the time.

If I'm above the curve I can accept that. I don't want to make it too hard for the general playerbase. I just don't feel as though that's the case. I am probably in the high end of "average" on the curve of skill.