GREYMOOR DESYNCS!

Emphatic_Static

Alright, we all know that skills aren't firing, input delay is abysmal, and block canceling is completely unreliable and wonky. But i have yet to see anyone discussing a contributing factor, and certainly don't believe zos knows it is happening. I base this by the fact that they are shocked to hear there are skill delays, immediately assuming it's your out of date addons when anyone that actually plays the game can tell in 2 minutes it's on their end.

Positional dysyncs. I'm not talking about skill delays, those are obvious. Ground based AOEs take multiple inputs to fire, and that's a huge problem, but have you noticed that range of skills requiring a target seem to not be firing? Synergies will not become available while you are standing directly on the associated skill? There is 100% a dysync of player position occurring in every aspect of the game right now.

If you don't feel it, try vBRP. You die outside ground based effects, or die inside mechanics such as the bug bomb from Tames, because the server says you were standing outside the AOE. You fight the last boss and your screen randomly goes blue as if you have been touching the ghosts when you KNOW you weren't even near them. Similarly you walk directly through the center on the golden ghosts players need to pick up during the ghost explosion phase and the server says nope, you didn't walk over that ghost - please try again, maybe the fourth time passing over the center of the ghost we will decide to give credit for doing so. People are dying to the Netches when nowhere near them. On top of dealing with all of these issues, you might think "Ok, well forget score for this run, let's pop sigils to help combat the obvious bugs that are happening in here." Bad luck for you, while standing on top of sigils, the server says nope, you are actually standing 7 meters THAT way, and synergy will not be available for you to use.

My groups all have video evidence of this happening multiple times, regularly. But its not relegated just to that arena. It's everywhere.

In Pvp, whether open world, BGs or even duels, skills that require a minimum range aren't firing due to player position dysync. There are times you have to literally pass through the player to be in range for something that is a 5 meter ability. For example at times executioner feels like it has a 1 meter range right now because although on your screen you are hot on their heels, the server thinks you are about 9 meters behind the intended target.

My point is that yes, buffs, heals, ground based abilities etc are all messed up right now, but this is only part of the problem. Not only are there input delays and server communication errors for allowing skills to fire, there is also a player positioning check that is obviously not calculating properly. It's not just me, it's not just a hunch, this is widespread to every area of the game. Hell even looting chests and resource nodes are getting dysynced. The server doesn't know where you are!

ZOS needs to acknowledge this is happening to know how to fix it. It's not just input delay, it's player positioning on top of that!

Sound off if you are experiencing this as well, so they know all the factors at play with combat being clunky right now!

technohic

Yeah I noticed this. Pretty much at this point it would be easier to list what isnt broken

Donny_Vito

technohic wrote: »

Yeah I noticed this. Pretty much at this point it would be easier to list what isnt broken

You know it'll be said 100x after this...but the Crown Store isn't broken!

But as each day passes I'm less and less excited for this new update to hit consoles....it sounds so bad.

Berenhir

Player position desync has always been a thing. Your position on your screen and the other player's position is only an approximation. Just do a horse race with 10 people, everybody will claim to have won by 20m.

Sabretusks

It is especially frustrating that they managed to break this during their double drops event. I mean really? The inability for most of the group to use sigils, gather ghosts, and successfully using the cleansing pads were obvious. Let’s not forget the health bonus to the final boss was in game for a week of the event, or the fact that people were getting DC’d (Or banned) for blocking.

This is really a fun game when it works. I say when it works because it has a long history of one “fix” breaking half the game. I don’t seem to recall any sort of acknowledgement from the devs that there was a health disparity on the last boss, let alone the desync issues that have been plaguing the servers. It’s fine though... they’ll probably blame the boss’s increased health on your addons anyways.

It would be wise of the dev team to firstly acknowledge that there is a problem, and secondly provide some sort of recourse for their actions. Thirdly, because they seem to have a talent to break the game during their updates, maybe they ought to not time major updates in the middle of events.

Emphatic_Static

technohic wrote: »

Yeah I noticed this. Pretty much at this point it would be easier to list what isnt broken

Sadly, you are correct.

Emphatic_Static

Berenhir wrote: »

Player position desync has always been a thing. Your position on your screen and the other player's position is only an approximation. Just do a horse race with 10 people, everybody will claim to have won by 20m.

It's MUCH worse since update 25, by ten fold. Not even close to the minor dysyncs before this update.

Sabretusks

Berenhir wrote: »

Player position desync has always been a thing. Your position on your screen and the other player's position is only an approximation. Just do a horse race with 10 people, everybody will claim to have won by 20m.

There is absolutely always a small discrepancy between where the client and the server show you at. There are also larger discrepancies like not being about to bash, use pads, sigils, loot, talk to the NPCs, or being otherwise unable to comply with mechanics like the insect swarm. I can understand the usual small discrepancies that we run into day to day, but when mechanics require positioning, being able to bash, synergize, stack, etc, the game simply cannot have a 20m margin of error.

DeSyreni

Sucks major butt.

TheFM

This explains NB problems

MentalxHammer

This is a major reason that dawnbreaker is a *** ultimate, you can do your best to track your target through the 0.4 second cast time, but even if your target is square in front of you, DB misses 50% of the time because of positional desynchs.

bellanca6561n

There are always at least three realities in an online game: yours, your opponents', and the host's. That can't be helped. The trick is to have them seem to make sense to players. ATM they're not.

One player in our group last night, a woman who never complains, was more bewildered than angry. "It feels like I'm healing through water" is how she put it.

Something's not syncing correctly and I hope they'll be able to determine what's causing that. It usually takes two patches after a major update after all.

Tatertodd

Desync has always been an issue but this time it's a difference between not being able to follow the mechanics of a trial/arena which makes certain arena runs nigh impossible.

Shantu

I guess this is all to be expected to a certain degree. Major performance updates can't really be accurately assessed in the isolation of PTS. When the servers start getting hit with high load demand you can expect these sync issues to rear their ugly head. I'm trying to see this (and I hope ZOS does) as an evolutionary process they'll address and fix. But they have their work cut out for them because right now, no matter where your at in the game, combat is just imprecise and messy.

Sabretusks

bellanca6561n wrote: »

Something's not syncing correctly and I hope they'll be able to determine what's causing that. It usually takes two patches after a major update after all.

You hit the nail on the head... it takes several incremental patches before they iron out the bugs after a major update. Given the variety of things that were broken (Cyrodiil, vCR+, both normal and vet BRP, etc) it’s as though they didn’t bother testing before implementing the changes. Even nodes and NPCs were unable to be interacted with at some points after the update.

They really ought to not schedule something like vBRP, vMA, etc double drop events literally in the middle of a major patch. Crazy idea, I know... but if you know that you break the game every single time you do an update, perhaps host events BEFORE the updates so people can actually participate with some measure of success.

Emphatic_Static

Shantu wrote: »

I guess this is all to be expected to a certain degree. Major performance updates can't really be accurately assessed in the isolation of PTS. When the servers start getting hit with high load demand you can expect these sync issues to rear their ugly head. I'm trying to see this (and I hope ZOS does) as an evolutionary process they'll address and fix. But they have their work cut out for them because right now, no matter where your at in the game, combat is just imprecise and messy.

Yeah i get that they can only simulate server load with bots which is not the same as legit connections from all over the place, but some things like the vBRP boss suddenly gaining 6 million health? How does this happen? Incompetence. That's how that happens.

Sabretusks

Emphatic_Static wrote: »

Shantu wrote: »

I guess this is all to be expected to a certain degree. Major performance updates can't really be accurately assessed in the isolation of PTS. When the servers start getting hit with high load demand you can expect these sync issues to rear their ugly head. I'm trying to see this (and I hope ZOS does) as an evolutionary process they'll address and fix. But they have their work cut out for them because right now, no matter where your at in the game, combat is just imprecise and messy.

Yeah i get that they can only simulate server load with bots which is not the same as legit connections from all over the place, but some things like the vBRP boss suddenly gaining 6 million health? How does this happen? Incompetence. That's how that happens.

Yeah, it’s hard to notice the last boss in vBRP, the pads in vCR+, or any of the DCing from blocking in Cyrodiil if you are incapable of participating in that content. Seems plausible that you’d never notice you broke something if you didn’t know it existed to begin with.

Kadoin

Berenhir wrote: »

Player position desync has always been a thing. Your position on your screen and the other player's position is only an approximation. Just do a horse race with 10 people, everybody will claim to have won by 20m.

True, my position on the screen right next to my brother was always in more than one place. However this patch is terrible for many reasons. Damage literally drops for skills and you can't predict when or where something will die (esp. players in pvp), roll dodging blacking out bars reliably, block being imaginary, stuns giving a nice "hang time," etc.

Kungfu

@Emphatic_Static
I know this is mostly PVE proof in this discussion... but I wanna help ZOS any way I can if possible.

So this comes from Cyro expeience: based on the way last week's crashes were absolutely objective / POI based, I think it's worth testing to see if it has something to do with textures / constructed objects like buildings or pillars.

I'd be curious if you can think of a dungeon with very little "extra" objects. Something that's mostly grass, preferably no caves if possible. Just spit-ballin . I don't pve (pretty much ever) but I'm willing to if it can help

Kynetik

Donny_Vito wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Yeah I noticed this. Pretty much at this point it would be easier to list what isnt broken

You know it'll be said 100x after this...but the Crown Store isn't broken!

But as each day passes I'm less and less excited for this new update to hit consoles....it sounds so bad.

the scaling on the crown store was jacked up and they didn’t waste anytime getting that squared away
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/513543/crown-store-gui#latest

IronWooshu

It seems like the ultimate cast times are applying to skills as well.

thegreat_one

I just did a nVMA and i know what killed me now. I was not standing in AOE and yet was killed by it. Thank you for letting me know I am not a potato

Emphatic_Static

thegreat_one wrote: »

I just did a nVMA and i know what killed me now. I was not standing in AOE and yet was killed by it. Thank you for letting me know I am not a potato

Yes, it's definitely affecting every area in the game! Skill delay on top of these position dysyncs is unplayable. Period.

Emphatic_Static

IronWooshu wrote: »

It seems like the ultimate cast times are applying to skills as well.

Yeah the input lag makes it FEEL that way, but I believe its server to client communication delays. This is separate from the player position issue, though.

TheFM

Shantu wrote: »

I guess this is all to be expected to a certain degree. Major performance updates can't really be accurately assessed in the isolation of PTS. When the servers start getting hit with high load demand you can expect these sync issues to rear their ugly head. I'm trying to see this (and I hope ZOS does) as an evolutionary process they'll address and fix. But they have their work cut out for them because right now, no matter where your at in the game, combat is just imprecise and messy.

This is happening at three in the morning with very low population, so it has nothing to do with that unfortunately

Coatmagic

Yup watched a guildy die far far from a ground aoe we had a laugh but dayum

CiNNeR

Yes, it's very noticable and annoying since update 25 recently. Specially in cyrodill. People seem to think it's lag. Makes a good fight nearly impossible.

@ZOS_GinaBruno: is ZOS aware of this?

precambria

YES, I would like to try a melee build but it's not workable when you can't actually hit people with anything but weapon skills

furiouslog

I have been experiencing this as well, I'm clearly outside of an AOE and get hit with it.

I also had a weird thing happen in Cyrodiil (of course) where I saw my character running around with my group outside of a keep, but my character was actually inside of the keep. Some of my group saw me running around oddly inside the keep, and the people I was standing next to could not see me at all. I estimate that my perceived location was about 100 game meters off from the location I was actually at in game.

Dojohoda

Yesterday in cyrodill I saw an AD banner running up the stairs at Ash gate, but there was no body under the banner. Not sure if that was desync or render problem. The gate was quite active with all 3 factions.

Emphatic_Static

Dojohoda wrote: »

Yesterday in cyrodill I saw an AD banner running up the stairs at Ash gate, but there was no body under the banner. Not sure if that was desync or render problem. The gate was quite active with all 3 factions.

Wow that's a new one on me...