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GAME BREAKING ISSUE - spamming block can now disconnect you from the server

  • ZonasArch
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    Arunei wrote: »
    @ZonasArch
    Telling people not to tell you how to behave while simultaneously doing it yourself is usually a good way to earn some ire, just to point it out. At the end of the day, yes, we all are entitled to our opinions, but really none of us have the right to tell others when and where they can or can't post. I didn't see where the other person had told you how to behave first, so maybe I missed the post or just skimmed over it. But telling someone not to do something to you while doing it to them usually doesn't earn you any brownie points, unless you're doing it to make a point or emphasize what a person is doing by turning it back on them.

    That aside, as was said already, more people would likely use the PTS if our feedback actually seemed to matter. But plenty of bugs and other things end up getting pushed to live and sometimes exist for months before getting addressed, like numerous things to do with Necromancer. The game is going on six years old now, people have gotten tired of offering feedback or making bug reports that seem to go completely ignored. And then we have issues like this crashing nonsense, which weren't present in the PTS. It really doesn't give any sort of assurance that the PTS is worth the time when major things like this pop up in live but weren't in the test servers, since afaik it all runs the same code and API stuff, doesn't it?

    I believe PTS and Live run the same, yes. My point with the PTS is simple. Nothing will ever be perfect for testing, but the more chances we get the better, right? And if more and more people joined the PTS, even for a few hours only, that would be a lot more than we get now. Would NOT help to get this crashing stuff, taht's absolutely correct, but could help with other bugs.

    The other issue, like stated before, is that we had a few weeks of PTS that surely meant changes to Live, but we didn't get to test. afaik, that's a first and it felt really, really off. I'm pretty sure they kept messing with blocking stuff that we never got to see before live, and clearly we(the community) needed a full week of testing to find these out on live... so there's that.

    As for telling people how to behave, i was going for a tone of advice towards avoid exaggeration. You wanna avoid getting devs jaded with empty shouting, that's my theory( not pointing at OP, but at the bandwagon). The reply i got from this was akin "shut up, white knight". See the difference? People here have no balance around the center, only on extremes. I keep forgetting this is the internet, where you cannot partially agree or disagree without being called names and made fun of.

    So you tell me... Am I rude to those who want to have a decent conversation? Because i try my hardest to be nice to those who are nice. As for decent debating people here, VaranisArano comes to mind. Never seen a single bad post from them, agreeing or disagreeing with me or anyone else. I don't have the temperance to take abuse peacefully, but i do appreciate those that don't jump into attack mode against anyone that disagrees with them. If everyone was a bit more like Varanis and a bit less hot headed like me, or baiting/trolling like some others i shall not name, these forums would probably be a lot more effective. I'm not removed of guilt and i know it, but that's a reflex of the toxicity here. Maybe i should indeed take a break from these forums.
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  • Dusk_Coven
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    I was able to replicate it. Ticket # 200229-001623

    Blocking at a steady pace didn't trigger a logout.
    Spamming Caltrops+block didn't trigger it.

    Rapidly clicking block did send me back to the login screen.

    Edit:
    Additional testing, though I only did this once.
    5 secs of rapid blocking - fine
    10 secs of rapid blocking - fine
    15 secs of rapid blocking - fine
    20 secs of rapid blocking - to the log-in screen with me!

    And I honestly think that's fine. Because if you just stand around spamming block really fast... maybe they intended for you to just HOLD DOWN THE BLOCK BUTTON instead?

    Honestly, players looking to crash the game doing weird things... maybe it's an intended mechanism to kick you because you're doing unintended things that can have an effect on the server?
    Edited by Dusk_Coven on February 29, 2020 8:36PM
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  • Arunei
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    @ZonasArch
    If ZOS ever makes the community feel like their feedback and bug reports are actually being listened to, you would probably see more people use it. If you really want to encourage people to use the PTS you'll need to convince them that they're being heard, which given how things go every update...well, that'll be hard, especially for the people who've put hours into the PTS every time and put in lots of feedback, only for most of it to fall on deaf ears. There's only been a few times in the game's history that I can remember people managing to rally enough to get ZOS to listen to feedback during a PTS cycle: once for cast timers on shields, and then the Incap Strike thing that came up during u24 I believe it was. You really can't fault people for giving up on the PTS when aside from those things, there's only been a few things here and there where legit feedback and concerns have been taken into account.

    As for being hotheaded, there's a time and place for it. Like I said I likely missed the post you were originally responding to, so you may have had more of a right to respond with some snark. I generally do that when there are people crapping on others in some way (sort of like what I thought was happening with the whole "mind your own business" thing, which is why I posted in the first place). Granted it can lead to misunderstandings like in this case, but there are people on here who are rude or nasty for no reason, and those are generally the people I save my snark for.
    Character List [RP and PvE]:
    Stands-Against-Death: Argonian Magplar Healer - Crafter
    Krisiel: Redguard Stamsorc DPS - Literally crazy Werewolf, no like legit insane. She nuts
    Kiju Veran: Khajiit Stamblade DPS - Ex-Fighters Guild Suthay who likes to punch things, nicknamed Tinykat
    Niralae Elsinal: Altmer Stamsorc DPS - Young Altmer with way too much Magicka
    Sarah Lacroix: Breton Magsorc DPS - Fledgling Vampire who drinks too much water
    Slondor: Nord Tankblade - TESified verson of Slenderman
    Marius Vastino: Imperial <insert role here> - Sarah's apathetic sire who likes to monologue
    Delthor Rellenar: Dunmer Magknight DPS - Sarah's ex who's a certified psychopath
    Lirawyn Calatare: Altmer Magplar Healer - Traveling performer and bard who's 101% vanilla bean
    Gondryn Beldeau: Breton Tankplar - Sarah's Mages Guild mentor and certified badass old person
    Gwendolyn Jenelle: Breton Magplar Healer - Friendly healer with a coffee addiction
    Soliril Larethian- Altmer Magblade DPS - Blind alchemist who uses animals to see and brews plagues in his spare time
    Tevril Rallenar: Dunmer Stamcro DPS - Delthor's "special" younger brother who raises small animals as friends
    Celeroth Calatare: Bosmer <insert role here> - Shapeshifting Bosmer with enough sass to fill Valenwood

    PC - NA - EP - CP1000+
    Avid RPer. Hit me up in-game @Ras_Lei if you're interested in getting together for some arr-pee shenanigans!
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  • MJallday
    MJallday
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    Hello everyone,

    Recently we've had to remove a few posts for baiting and flaming, content that is against the Forum Rules. For further posts be sure to stay constructive and respectful to avoid thread derailment or action on one's own account.

    Thank you for understanding.

    But no acknowledgement that your passing on the concerns raised by multiple players about a game breaking issue to the relevant people?

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  • JumpmanLane
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    I was able to replicate it. Ticket # 200229-001623

    Blocking at a steady pace didn't trigger a logout.
    Spamming Caltrops+block didn't trigger it.

    Rapidly clicking block did send me back to the login screen.

    Edit:
    Additional testing, though I only did this once.
    5 secs of rapid blocking - fine
    10 secs of rapid blocking - fine
    15 secs of rapid blocking - fine
    20 secs of rapid blocking - to the log-in screen with me!

    What I noticed within that 5 to 15 second frame was that not all the blocks went off. Also the Psijic globe remained up when not blocking. Block is broken. None of these things happened before.

    White Knights who deny this even exist don’t hurt the game because ZOS will at some point acknowledge that this issue (one of MANY) EXISTS, whether they fix it or not.

    What White Knights do by defending the indefensible is hurt player to player goodwill in the community.
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  • JumpmanLane
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    TheFM wrote: »
    SeveN085 wrote: »
    If someone's wondering... this is not exclusive to spamming. Clicking it real fast is just the easiest way to replicate this bug. In PVP you may hold block for a second, drop it and then depending on the situation, hold it again for a second and drop it again and do that over and over again. Add in some block cancel animations in between and that's already enough to get booted.

    Lol considering you have to dodge with block first on controller, this would explain a lot. Wtaf ZoS xD.


    This AND considering you lightly tap block and the right trigger to break free quickly on controller might explain some people being unable to break free at times.

    Quick blocks are not even registering sometimes. Block’s BROKEN and it’s affecting dodge and break free.
    Edited by JumpmanLane on February 29, 2020 9:02PM
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  • Arunei
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    @Dusk_Coven
    You're acting like people are doing this on purpose to crash the game, but how is someone repeatedly hitting the block button going to affect the server in the way you're implying it could? If this was an intended feature they introduced, they would have made sure to mention it, because there might be any number of situations where you find yourself blocking numerous times in rapid succession. You can't just hold down block because you don't regen any Stamina while you're blocking, and you move exceptionally slowly while blocking. Also, at least one person on here has pointed out that it doesn't have to be spammed like OP and others testing it have tried, but might happen after only a couple of quick clicks.

    Again, no one is encouraging people to do this to overload the server like you seem to believe is happening (and let me again point out the fact like you, along with everyone else, don't know what's causing this problem), yet you keep insisting that people are doing it just because they want to purposefully 'sabotage' other people. That is not what's going on. I'm curious why you're so adamant that rapid blocking can cause so much stress on the system that the devs would (secretly) code a thing to prevent it. I would assume blocking itself is a simple action when there's no damage coming in that the server has to calculate against; again, it's like trying to say excessive jumping strains the server.

    And as I already said, if this was an intended mechanic, given how block heavy some dungeons and trials can be, they would certainly need to announce introducing such a change.
    Character List [RP and PvE]:
    Stands-Against-Death: Argonian Magplar Healer - Crafter
    Krisiel: Redguard Stamsorc DPS - Literally crazy Werewolf, no like legit insane. She nuts
    Kiju Veran: Khajiit Stamblade DPS - Ex-Fighters Guild Suthay who likes to punch things, nicknamed Tinykat
    Niralae Elsinal: Altmer Stamsorc DPS - Young Altmer with way too much Magicka
    Sarah Lacroix: Breton Magsorc DPS - Fledgling Vampire who drinks too much water
    Slondor: Nord Tankblade - TESified verson of Slenderman
    Marius Vastino: Imperial <insert role here> - Sarah's apathetic sire who likes to monologue
    Delthor Rellenar: Dunmer Magknight DPS - Sarah's ex who's a certified psychopath
    Lirawyn Calatare: Altmer Magplar Healer - Traveling performer and bard who's 101% vanilla bean
    Gondryn Beldeau: Breton Tankplar - Sarah's Mages Guild mentor and certified badass old person
    Gwendolyn Jenelle: Breton Magplar Healer - Friendly healer with a coffee addiction
    Soliril Larethian- Altmer Magblade DPS - Blind alchemist who uses animals to see and brews plagues in his spare time
    Tevril Rallenar: Dunmer Stamcro DPS - Delthor's "special" younger brother who raises small animals as friends
    Celeroth Calatare: Bosmer <insert role here> - Shapeshifting Bosmer with enough sass to fill Valenwood

    PC - NA - EP - CP1000+
    Avid RPer. Hit me up in-game @Ras_Lei if you're interested in getting together for some arr-pee shenanigans!
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  • Lylith
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    and here i thought it was one of those 'just me' in-game features. :/
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  • DUTCH_REAPER
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    Sad people are so quick to attack others in the forums. We are all people with lives and families. Don’t treat people like dogs.
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  • fred4
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    I hope no one seriously believes this is anything but a bug. My best guess is that the new implementation of block is accidentally triggering some anti-cheat or anti-bot measure that has always existed. Equally as likely it might be a bug that just causes some invalid network protocol message sequence and their network driver is coded to bomb out in that case. Like I said, we shouldn't really speculate.
    Edited by fred4 on February 29, 2020 9:52PM
    PC EU (EP): Magicka NB (main), Stamina NB, Stamina DK, Stamina Sorcerer, Magicka Warden, Magicka Templar, Stamina Templar
    PC NA (EP): Magicka NB
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  • Haquor
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    Dusk_Coven wrote: »
    Dusk_Coven wrote: »
    SeveN085 wrote: »
    If you don't believe, spam block button yourself real fast for like 10-15 seconds and you will get kicked.
    L2Pissue wrote: »
    Yep it works
    I just spammed block for 15 seconds to log out,
    Thanks for this feature.

    Then maybe don't go around spamming block for 15 seconds till you're kicked?
    If it turns out to be destabilizing the server and/or affecting the players around you, honestly a kick should be followed by a ban for deliberately sabotaging the game.

    Stop shooting yourselves in the foot and asking ZOS for a bandaid.

    Ya know tanks do split-second blocks quite frequently in hard content right?...

    If tanks are blocking legitimately and having crashes, that's one thing. But deliberately manufacturing an issue by spamming block until you get kicked... I don't feel that's ZOS's responsibility to fix.
    If legitimate uses of block cause a problem, I'm sure the reports will make their way to ZOS. Standing around spamming block for 15 seconds to manufacture a problem is not legit.


    Why should the game kick anyone for using block? In any context. Ever. If the game crashes cause you use a skill whether youre sitting in the open spamming it at butterflies or using it periodically in PVP then that IS a game problem and it is ZOS responsibility to fix.

    Ofcourse its legitimate use. If quickly blocking can crash your game (makes sense for me now with a huge amount of crashes ive had only in cyrodil since update) then that is a bug.

    Your argument that it is his problem cause he held block for 15 seconds to 'manufacture' a crash is quite rediculous.
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  • ManwithBeard9
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    MJallday wrote: »
    Hello everyone,

    Recently we've had to remove a few posts for baiting and flaming, content that is against the Forum Rules. For further posts be sure to stay constructive and respectful to avoid thread derailment or action on one's own account.

    Thank you for understanding.

    But no acknowledgement that your passing on the concerns raised by multiple players about a game breaking issue to the relevant people?

    Antonio is a forum mod, they patrol the forums, that it. But whether you believe it or not, the devs have seen this thread. There's no way they haven't. They just haven't commented on it yet. Why? Dunno. That's for them to explain.
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  • VaranisArano
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    Dusk_Coven wrote: »
    I was able to replicate it. Ticket # 200229-001623

    Blocking at a steady pace didn't trigger a logout.
    Spamming Caltrops+block didn't trigger it.

    Rapidly clicking block did send me back to the login screen.

    Edit:
    Additional testing, though I only did this once.
    5 secs of rapid blocking - fine
    10 secs of rapid blocking - fine
    15 secs of rapid blocking - fine
    20 secs of rapid blocking - to the log-in screen with me!

    And I honestly think that's fine. Because if you just stand around spamming block really fast... maybe they intended for you to just HOLD DOWN THE BLOCK BUTTON instead?

    Honestly, players looking to crash the game doing weird things... maybe it's an intended mechanism to kick you because you're doing unintended things that can have an effect on the server?

    That whole "it might be intended to prevent you from having an effect on the server" is part of the question.

    Is it intended? Maybe. ZOS are the only people who can say. It wasn't there prior to the update and we certainly weren't warned about it anywhere in the patch notes or their explanation of how block changes would work.

    Is it not intended? Again, ZOS are the only people who can truly say.

    Could it be an intended feature that's also causing unintended problems when players rapidly block in Battlegrounds or Trials with lots of other things impacting the server at the same time? Again, ZOS are the only people who can say, but it wouldn't be the first time an intended feature caused unintended problems.

    Is it something that ZOS should investigate?
    If its intended, no need to investigate, but they really ought to inform players that "Hey, its intended that you crash to the login screen if you rapidly spam block. It won't impact you in normal combat. You probably shouldn't do that."
    If its not intended, then yeah, investigating it would be wise.

    In any case, its a Saturday. I'm not holding my breath for answers from ZOS.
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  • jadarock
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    MJallday wrote: »
    Hello everyone,

    Recently we've had to remove a few posts for baiting and flaming, content that is against the Forum Rules. For further posts be sure to stay constructive and respectful to avoid thread derailment or action on one's own account.

    Thank you for understanding.

    But no acknowledgement that your passing on the concerns raised by multiple players about a game breaking issue to the relevant people?

    This is a huge problem considering they haven't even acknowledged the issues on console from the patch feb 5th

    [Edit to remove discussing disciplinary actions]
    Edited by [Deleted User] on March 1, 2020 3:52AM
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  • Dusk_Coven
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    In any case, its a Saturday. I'm not holding my breath for answers from ZOS.

    Looks like they are too busy playing trivia in Boston. But that livestream is over already though.
    Edited by Dusk_Coven on February 29, 2020 10:42PM
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  • Dusk_Coven
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    That whole "it might be intended to prevent you from having an effect on the server" is part of the question.

    Is it intended? Maybe. ZOS are the only people who can say.

    And that's part of my point. This very specific test procedure might be triggering some other mechanism that actually is intended. But everyone automatically assumes it's a bug and ZOS is incompetent. Patch notes for all games, not just ESO, tends to not include everything that's worked on, only what they think is relevant to us. So a non-mention there isn't necessarily indicative of anything.

    The OP discovered a repeatable way to trigger getting kicked off the server. Great. But to be FAIR to ZOS, let's not ASSUME too much from there.

    Everyone is just happy to immediately call ZOS incompetent, especially for a behavior that is highly unusual compared to normal gameplay. That's a very counterproductive attitude and excellent reason for ZOS to just ignore the forums entirely.
    Edited by Dusk_Coven on February 29, 2020 10:57PM
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  • Royaji
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    Dusk_Coven wrote: »
    That whole "it might be intended to prevent you from having an effect on the server" is part of the question.

    Is it intended? Maybe. ZOS are the only people who can say.

    And that's part of my point. This very specific test procedure might be triggering some other mechanism that actually is intended. But everyone automatically assumes it's a bug and ZOS is incompetent. Patch notes for all games, not just ESO, tends to not include everything that's worked on, only what they think is relevant to us. So a non-mention there isn't necessarily indicative of anything.

    The OP discovered a repeatable way to trigger getting kicked off the server. Great. But to be FAIR to ZOS, let's not ASSUME too much from there.

    Everyone is just happy to immediately call ZOS incompetent. That's a very counterproductive attitude and excellent reason for ZOS to just ignore the forums entirely.

    Even if there is some other intended mechanism in place, they still look pretty incompetent if a regular user can accidentally access it in such an easy and reproducable way.
    Edited by Royaji on February 29, 2020 10:59PM
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  • Dusk_Coven
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    Royaji wrote: »
    Even if there is some other intended mechanism in place, they still look pretty incompetent if a regular user can accidentally access it in such an easy and reproducable way.

    When was the last time you "accidentally" rapid-spammed block for 10+ seconds consecutively?
    If someone did that regularly, I would suspect they found it to be a way to bypass the mechanisms of holding block while getting similar benefits -- i.e., exploit.
    Edited by Dusk_Coven on February 29, 2020 11:04PM
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  • Royaji
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    Dusk_Coven wrote: »
    Royaji wrote: »
    Even if there is some other intended mechanism in place, they still look pretty incompetent if a regular user can accidentally access it in such an easy and reproducable way.

    When was the last time you "accidentally" rapid-spammed block for 10+ seconds consecutively?
    If someone did that regularly, I would suspect they found it to be a way to bypass the mechanisms of holding block while getting similar benefits -- i.e., exploit.

    Awful lot for assumptions for someone who is so against us assuming anything about ZOS.
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  • butterrum222
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    This is a buff to the gank playstyle
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  • Dusk_Coven
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    Royaji wrote: »
    Dusk_Coven wrote: »
    Royaji wrote: »
    Even if there is some other intended mechanism in place, they still look pretty incompetent if a regular user can accidentally access it in such an easy and reproducable way.

    When was the last time you "accidentally" rapid-spammed block for 10+ seconds consecutively?
    If someone did that regularly, I would suspect they found it to be a way to bypass the mechanisms of holding block while getting similar benefits -- i.e., exploit.

    Awful lot for assumptions for someone who is so against us assuming anything about ZOS.

    That's why I said SUSPECT. Learn to read?
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  • JumpmanLane
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    Dusk_Coven wrote: »
    Royaji wrote: »
    Even if there is some other intended mechanism in place, they still look pretty incompetent if a regular user can accidentally access it in such an easy and reproducable way.

    When was the last time you "accidentally" rapid-spammed block for 10+ seconds consecutively?
    If someone did that regularly, I would suspect they found it to be a way to bypass the mechanisms of holding block while getting similar benefits -- i.e., exploit.
    Dusk_Coven wrote: »
    That whole "it might be intended to prevent you from having an effect on the server" is part of the question.

    Is it intended? Maybe. ZOS are the only people who can say.

    And that's part of my point. This very specific test procedure might be triggering some other mechanism that actually is intended. But everyone automatically assumes it's a bug and ZOS is incompetent. Patch notes for all games, not just ESO, tends to not include everything that's worked on, only what they think is relevant to us. So a non-mention there isn't necessarily indicative of anything.

    The OP discovered a repeatable way to trigger getting kicked off the server. Great. But to be FAIR to ZOS, let's not ASSUME too much from there.

    Everyone is just happy to immediately call ZOS incompetent, especially for a behavior that is highly unusual compared to normal gameplay. That's a very counterproductive attitude and excellent reason for ZOS to just ignore the forums entirely.

    It’s a bug. I’m not bashing anyone by saying it’s pretty incompetent if the new block is buggy af.

    It would seem from some testing that in using block quickly in succession, just lightly tapping it, not all blocks register. You miss some blocks. At times the block indicator stays up after blocking ends. Even the Psijic globe will stay up at times. If you lightly tap block over a period of say 20 seconds, you crash.

    Other skills like dodge and break free which involve a light block are affected. It’s broken. Period.
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  • luizpaulom17
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    Got my comment deleted again.. its Just a matter of time for them to close this thread, like they diz for all threads about crushing...
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  • VaranisArano
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    Dusk_Coven wrote: »
    That whole "it might be intended to prevent you from having an effect on the server" is part of the question.

    Is it intended? Maybe. ZOS are the only people who can say.

    And that's part of my point. This very specific test procedure might be triggering some other mechanism that actually is intended. But everyone automatically assumes it's a bug and ZOS is incompetent. Patch notes for all games, not just ESO, tends to not include everything that's worked on, only what they think is relevant to us. So a non-mention there isn't necessarily indicative of anything.

    The OP discovered a repeatable way to trigger getting kicked off the server. Great. But to be FAIR to ZOS, let's not ASSUME too much from there.

    Everyone is just happy to immediately call ZOS incompetent, especially for a behavior that is highly unusual compared to normal gameplay. That's a very counterproductive attitude and excellent reason for ZOS to just ignore the forums entirely.

    I really enjoy having my quote cut short in a way that ignores the very even-handed approach I've been trying to take, in contrast to the whole tone argument currently being waged between those who assume its a bug and those who assume its intended.

    I'm specifically asking ZOS to either clarify that its intended and that its not having unintended consequences or to investigate it if its not intended. Now that we know about it, it ought to be clarified one way or another to settle our concerns (when they can, this being the weekend.)

    I don't think anyone is seriously arguing that we ought to be free to rapidly spam block as much as we want. That's a bit of a strawman.

    What we are primarily concerned with is the possibility that frequent blocking in the course of normal gameplay as with tanks, block canceling, and PVP, is either unintentionally causing a disconnect or is erroneously getting flagged by an intended spam filter. Given that desyncs and erroneous social bans can happen when server/client messages get dumped en masse, its not out of the realm of possibility that normal frequent blocking is running into the same problem during combat and being erroneously flagged. I can't possibly test if that's happening - I'm reliant on ZOS to do so. Nor can you, no offense, provide any assurance to anyone that ZOS' change to block isn't impacting legitimate gameplay - you are likewise reliant on ZOS to confirm whether or not its working as intended.

    Only ZOS can confirm what's actually going on. Only ZOS can actually settle player concerns about what's going on. The best we can do is be patient and politely insist that they do eventually provide an answer.
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  • Dusk_Coven
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    I don't think anyone is seriously arguing that we ought to be free to rapidly spam block as much as we want. That's a bit of a strawman.
    Oh yes they are or close to it.
    Ya know tanks do split-second blocks quite frequently in hard content right?...
    Haquor wrote: »
    Why should the game kick anyone for using block? In any context. Ever.
    Arunei wrote: »
    ...because there might be any number of situations where you find yourself blocking numerous times in rapid succession. You can't just hold down block because you don't regen any Stamina while you're blocking, and you move exceptionally slowly while blocking.

    I suspect some people actually do use it or something very close to it. But those suspicions and the validity of rapidly spamming block for several seconds instead of simply holding down block are another topic.

    But yeah I do agree the topic is basically waiting on ZOS now. They haven't talked about some pretty serious gameplay issues like the dying-with-scroll bug so they're probably gonna just let the community just yell uselessly here too.
    Edited by Dusk_Coven on March 1, 2020 2:41AM
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  • FrankonPC
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    ZonasArch wrote: »

    I believe PTS and Live run the same, yes. My point with the PTS is simple. Nothing will ever be perfect for testing, but the more chances we get the better, right? And if more and more people joined the PTS, even for a few hours only, that would be a lot more than we get now. Would NOT help to get this crashing stuff, taht's absolutely correct, but could help with other bugs.

    They could have made a more stable environment for the pts and also not done a double ap event during the pts. This would have had more people test bugs on their test server so that they don't make it to live. There's a lot of truth in that they cannot replicate all issues on live on the pts, which I will not argue. What I will argue is that they provide no incentives or reasons for people to go to the pts and a lot of the current feedback is ignored.

    The no stamina bug was reported on the PTS and it still made it to live. This is just one example of many where players that do actually go on there and provide feedback are not listened to.

    You can say that being constructive is the better route to go, and normally you would be right. However, at some point when your constructive feedback is ignored, you have to take a more drastic approach.



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  • VaranisArano
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    Dusk_Coven wrote: »
    I don't think anyone is seriously arguing that we ought to be free to rapidly spam block as much as we want. That's a bit of a strawman.
    Oh yes they are or close to it.
    Ya know tanks do split-second blocks quite frequently in hard content right?...
    Haquor wrote: »
    Why should the game kick anyone for using block? In any context. Ever.
    Arunei wrote: »
    ...because there might be any number of situations where you find yourself blocking numerous times in rapid succession. You can't just hold down block because you don't regen any Stamina while you're blocking, and you move exceptionally slowly while blocking.

    I suspect some people actually do use it or something very close to it. But those suspicions and the validity of rapidly spamming block for several seconds instead of simply holding down block are another topic.

    But yeah I do agree the topic is basically waiting on ZOS now. They haven't talked about some pretty serious gameplay issues like the dying-with-scroll bug so they're probably gonna just let the community just yell uselessly here too.

    Sorry, to clarify, I meant that yes, players want to be able to frequently use block in the course of combat and normal gameplay, much as they could before this patch. Two out of three of your example quotes are referring to frequently blocking in normal gameplay, and its pretty clear from context that most posters are concerned that this new disconnect behavior correlates with or caused their noted problems in PVE group content and PVP where frequent blocking and/or block canceling is a normal part of gameplay. The block changes weren't supposed to prevent players from frequently blocking during normal gameplay as they had before, so that's why players are concerned.

    What I meant to say was that I'm not advocating that we really need to be able to block the way I did during my test: blocking extremely rapidly at a couple sheep, nowhere near actual combat or other players. I mean, I can't imagine a reason why that would cause an issue worthy of getting intentionally disconnected when it never did before, but its not like I'm going to miss it if it turns out ZOS doesn't want me doing that. Of course, the sheep might miss the show. :)
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  • ZonasArch
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    FrankonPC wrote: »
    ZonasArch wrote: »

    I believe PTS and Live run the same, yes. My point with the PTS is simple. Nothing will ever be perfect for testing, but the more chances we get the better, right? And if more and more people joined the PTS, even for a few hours only, that would be a lot more than we get now. Would NOT help to get this crashing stuff, taht's absolutely correct, but could help with other bugs.

    They could have made a more stable environment for the pts and also not done a double ap event during the pts. This would have had more people test bugs on their test server so that they don't make it to live. There's a lot of truth in that they cannot replicate all issues on live on the pts, which I will not argue. What I will argue is that they provide no incentives or reasons for people to go to the pts and a lot of the current feedback is ignored.

    The no stamina bug was reported on the PTS and it still made it to live. This is just one example of many where players that do actually go on there and provide feedback are not listened to.

    You can say that being constructive is the better route to go, and normally you would be right. However, at some point when your constructive feedback is ignored, you have to take a more drastic approach.



    I do agree that at some point we need to be drastic but we don't need to be toxic. Calling devs stupid, saying their game is crap, that their job is worthless and they don't know poop about it... That's not drastic, that's straight up toxic, is it not? And I'm not saying you're doing it necessarily but you know this goes around a LOT.

    Now imagine being a Dev and having to read all these things everyday when you're giving your best, being qualified to do the job, and also being probably badly overworked... How do you think calling devs and their work "piece of crap" will help out case... How can they be motivated by this behavior? Entitlement doesn't lead to getting what you want in the real world. It's quite the opposite. Spoiled people with spoiled behavior get nothing.

    Maybe I'm too empathetic (what a freaking shame, right?), but this shouldn't be that hard to understand. And I know young gamers are generally toxic and entitled as a community, but ESO is not a game for kids. We are, or should be, adults here. We should know how to talk to each other in a civilized manner, and that's one of my bigger issues, but when I try to ask for it here, I'm suddenly a white knight defending the indefensible, when in reality, my first post was agreeing we have an issue, but the approach we need is different since we don't even know what the real issue is. It may even be a feature, for all we know. See my point?
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  • Fur_like_snow
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    Empathy works both ways. As a community we take time out of our own lives to play test the upcoming patch mind you we don’t work at ZeniMax we play test because we enjoy ESO. It’s frustrating to see these bugs go live when the community was on deck week one with reporting some of these bugs.

    I’ve said this before you can’t make 250 changes a patch and expect everything is gonna work out just fine. If they can’t or won’t hire additional developers they should cut back on the amount of changes per patch.
    Edited by Fur_like_snow on March 1, 2020 3:54AM
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  • JumpmanLane
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    Confirmed on the PTS too. Spamming block for like 20 seconds will crash you back to login. Blocks broken in several ways...
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