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Very disappointed in Murkmire event, and recent events.
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Lintashi✭✭✭✭✭Also very disappointed. As for today, I have opened 4 boxes- 3 daily ones, 1 extra. Got 1 stake piece, one voriplasm piece. 4 hours of farming today- no additional boxes. I never really wanted stake or pet, so I am fine with not having them. Currently, I believe, that I have exactly zero chances to get one anyway- if 9 days of event left, and I get fragments in half of daily boxes( that is if I am lucky), I will probably have 4 or 5 fragments of each reward, and several tickets to buy the remaining ones. But since I also need the berry, my only reward in this event is 2x drop from several nodes, since everyone else are also farming them. Basically this is extremely underwhelming event, in small extremely overpopulated zone, with Zos introducing untradeable fragments with obvious intent to push people into spending real money. Also, stake memento is basically character holding stake for several seconds, is it even worth as event reward?6 -
Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Pet parts are useless. When I get 4 weapon styles out of 10+ at least I can use those style pages I got (or sell them if do not need them myself). If I get 4 parts of the pet till the end of the event then I got nothing at all. That is a huge difference.
I don't mind that fragments are in collectibles. There are some advantages to that. But if someone plays every day of the event, they should be able to get both collectibles. This shouldn't be RNG dependent.
It wouldn't be so bad if we were sure that the event would be re-run in the future. Just hold on to your fragments and let the event roll around again.
But they apparently want FOMO and scarcity mentality to encourage participation, so we don't know ir or when the event will re-appear and the chance to get fragments will come back.
Meanwhile, I guess you can buy it with the tickets you get each day for free, but you're choosing what you want instead of being able to get everything. That would be fine... If the event if coming again. But we don't know that for sure.
This feels like the indrik morphs last year, where it felt important to do all the events in each quarter because you didn't know if the chance to get the proper berries would come again. Seems like the same thing here. No one really saw it coming that they'd release all the berries again during New Life.Edited by Dusk_Coven on February 23, 2020 7:34PM3 -
MasterSpatula✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭These issues are more a part of an ongoing and developing trend than something special to the Murkmire event. It's a step forward on a nasty trend that's been going on for a while now.
And it puts the finger right on why I haven't bought Greymire yet and am seriously considering not bothering to re-download tomorrow, canceling my sub, and finding a new passtime. I consider my time my most valuable asset, People who expect you to do grindy content to be rewarded with preposterously-low-drop-rate RNG rewards are not people who consider your time valuable.
ZOS has, honestly, always been a company that treated its customers like their time is of little value. I've tolerated this flaw before because it was balanced out by other things, good things, even great things. But they are choosing to take this flaw--this mistake, this thing you are incapable of doing when you consider your customers people worthy of respect--and they're renewing their commitment to it. They're actively doubling down on something people who deserved their jobs simply wouldn't do.
And so they've lost the balance. All the good in this game can't outweigh the bad if the bad is what they to choose to expand."A probable impossibility is preferable to an improbable possibility." - Aristotle13 -
Rave the Histborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭BlissfulDelusions wrote: »People have been complaining about not being able to buy more things with the tickets they have - ZOS added the pet/memento items to the impresario.
People have been complaining that they can't get loot from bosses because people are killing them to fast or their computers can't handle the strain with 50 players all using abilities in the same place - ZOS changed the prerequisite to any monster at all to spread out player concentration.
People have been complaining that they've got a bunch of useless items in their inventory that they can't sell and are just taking up inventory space - ZOS makes the fragments into collectibles.
ZOS is giving you people what you're asking for and now you're complaining because it's not the exact way you feel like it should be. There is plenty of time and there are plenty of tickets being provided for you to get everything out of the event if you participate. If ZOS was really that concerned about making money, they would have simply put the voriplasm pet in the crown store and forgone the whole fragment thing altogether - it's obvious people really want it.
people are complaining because the drop rate is so horrible that it is literally impossible to get the pet and emote so the only way to do it is to buy and sell doubles which they cant do that either.
if the drop rate was reasonable people wouldnt be complaining. Zos is in the wrong. They screwed up.
people are complaining because the drop rate is so horrible that it is literally impossible to get the pet and emote so the only way to do it is to buy and sell doubles which they cant do that either.
There are people that are getting two memento/pet parts in strongboxes and there are people who had the pet by the end of the first day. This is obviously not true.
if the drop rate was reasonable people wouldnt be complaining. Zos is in the wrong. They screwed up.
"If the drop rate was what I think the drop rate should be, I wouldn't be here complaining."
There, fixed it.
In case it is not obvious, it is entirely possible to dump a lot of Crowns on tickets. So who is to say those people that had the pet or gravestake on the first day didn't do just that?
I find it unrealistic, with the large samplesize of abyssmal drops, that someone could have gotten it through gameplay so quickly.
I think thatNo.
If people knew they could reliably get the pet, memento, and berry from 12 days of doing event stuff, there would've much less complaining, and most people would've thought this to be quite okay because mindless grinding is what you can expect from an MMO.
This is what the guy in the video talked about in the context of loss-reward ratio: Dangle the possible reward in front of players (you can get X, Y, and Z!) and then threaten to take it away (but you might be unlucky!) to convince them to pay money (better complete the rewards with store tickets!). Two possible rewards in the boxes (pet parts, and memento parts) also make sure that the chance to get a decent amount of both, even with the abysmal RNG, is even lower, and that the probability of you getting parts from both is comparatively high. So chances are that you'll end up with two half-finished rewards, causing some players to buy tickets to complete them. It's predatory monetisation.
And that is why players complain. Not because they don't get the rewards NOW!!!! but because they'll probably not get them at all, it's all about random chance, and obviously designed to lure them into the crown store.
Not true at all. The Legion Zero pages were tradeable and the same day 1 posts crying about having to put more than than 2min into the game then commenced.2 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I am not a fan of lizards but I was doing Murkmire delve dailies when levelling alts. The thing is they are not fast enough comparing to Summerset. And there are only 2 delves. After a month of seeing every Murkmire delve two or more times a day I am 'a bit' tired of it.
I was doing the Murkmire dailies leading up to the revelation that there would be a Murkmire party this month. I decided to hold off until the start of the event since, well, double drops.DeathStalker_X wrote: »When you can BUY the same things that others WORK for, why bother at all?
It sort of reduces the value of doing the work, doesn't it? Well, for us. For ZOS, it is all gold.Dusk_Coven wrote: »It wouldn't be so bad if we were sure that the event would be re-run in the future. Just hold on to your fragments and let the event roll around again.
There is nothing special about what they are handing out this year. My guess is that these same things will come around next time, to a chorus of "still the same stuff? forget you, ZOS!"
They won't tell us that, though. FOMO and all.
And, if they don't... oh well.
XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus2 -
Varana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭...Rave the Histborn wrote: »Not true at all. The Legion Zero pages were tradeable and the same day 1 posts crying about having to put more than than 2min into the game then commenced.
At no point in my comment - which was rather lengthy, as comments go, but still entirely possible to read through for someone like you - did I say or insinuate that no one would complain about that.
But apparently, I have to point out the obvious for you. I'm not sure why, and I wouldn't want to speculate. Well, then:
People complain about everything. It's the amount of unhappy players that makes the difference here.
I wish you a happy download.3 -
Rave the Histborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭...Rave the Histborn wrote: »Not true at all. The Legion Zero pages were tradeable and the same day 1 posts crying about having to put more than than 2min into the game then commenced.
At no point in my comment - which was rather lengthy, as comments go, but still entirely possible to read through for someone like you - did I say or insinuate that no one would complain about that.
But apparently, I have to point out the obvious for you. I'm not sure why, and I wouldn't want to speculate. Well, then:
People complain about everything. It's the amount of unhappy players that makes the difference here.
I wish you a happy download.
LOL you insinuated that the complaining would be significantly less. It wouldn't and that's why you have to move the goal posts to insinuate "no one" would complain. I also didn't insinuate no one would complain I said that they would still complain no matter what. Sorry bro, you're wrong take the L and move on.
"But apparently, I have to point out the obvious for you. I'm not sure why, and I wouldn't want to speculate. Well, then:
People complain about everything. It's the amount of unhappy players that makes the difference here.
I wish you a happy download"
LOL "No one complaining" isn't the obvious but of course you're wrong and you wrote a lengthy reply and proved yourself wrong in your first 2 sentences. It's the same amount of unhappy players as every other event where ZOS doesn't give them everything in 5minutes.0 -
katanagirl1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I’m glad to see that in this event we get more than just Indriks and style pages. I’ll try for the mementos, though they are something I’ll probably never use.
I just wish we had got some Murkmire furnishing plans as rewards, since they are nearly impossible to get from farming (spent many hours trying). That is what I really want.
Khajiit Stamblade main
Dark Elf Magsorc
Redguard Stamina Dragonknight
Orc Stamplar PVP
Breton Magsorc PVP
Dark Elf Necromancer
Dark Elf Magden
Khajiit Stamblade
Khajiit Stamina Arcanist
PS5 NA2 -
Eifleber✭✭✭✭✭There's simply really nothing from the rewards pool that I want.
Compared to the midwinter event they even removed all but one Imrik upgrade (I wanted the onyx upgrade but it isn' t available now).
Oh well, perhaps .. the spring event?❆
Playing since dec 2019 | PC EU1 -
SteveS✭CallmeFishmeal wrote: »With the launch of the Murkmire event, I've seen a pattern that ZOS has been leaning towards these past couple of events. To simply put it, these events are turning into cash grabs for ZOS. Before the Murkmire event started, I couldn't wait to get a voriplasm pet cause I think they look really cool! (Like Flubber or something.) On the second day of the event, I realized that it will be impossible for me to obtain the pet unless I use real money to buy crowns and pay for the individual parts from the impresario, which I refuse to do. One reason is the event is too short to even collect all the fragments. Secondly, not only do the voriplasm pet fragments drop, but also some dumb memento that I'll never use. Thirdly, the drop rate for anything good is so low that it's frustrating. I feel like ZOS is trolling us out of our time and money. Don't get me wrong, I like participating in the events and playing the game in general, but I don't want to spend 5+ hours grinding in Murkmire in hopes to get a decent drop. I just want to kill a WB, do a delve, get my tickets and a well deserved fragment, and move on with my game. Same with the previous events, grinding for hours in Imperial Sewers - Midyear Mayhem - and dungeons - Undaunted - in hopes to get a new Style Page when the drop rates were ridiculously low. I will only have enough to tickets to get the berries and feathers, but nothing else the impresario offers. Why would ZOS say "earn a voriplasm pet, and memento" when it's impossible to get them without spending crowns/real money, or literally not sleep to grind for endless hours? Doesn't seem like "earning" them in my opinion. I've played only in Murkmire since the event began, mostly dailies, catching up on overlooked quests, and farming nodes, and have only got 1 memento fragment. Maybe I'm just ranting about my awful RNG, but I feel like if we want to get the rewards possible from this event, we have to spend real money, which is rather disappointing. (And no, I'm not spending my hard earned gold to buy crowns either. ZOS just needs to be fair with their events and make them fun and rewarding.)
I got the pet on the 3rd day. I also had 12 tickets from previous event so it wasn't hard at all. There is enough time to get the pet. What you wrote is just not true.0 -
Scubbs✭Ive found 1 piece on the NA server and 3 on the EU. On NA it is a pet piece but I have worked out I will get enough tickets to get the pet completed even at just finding 1 piece. If I get more pieces which is highly likely that will be a benefit. I have all the berries so that isn't an issue for me.
I only want to complete the pet Im not too worried about the momento. I dont mind not getting both completed.
Ive never had to buy an event ticket and never will. Ive never found earning tickets takes too long.
I do agree though that the event feels a little underwhelming and the rewards a little meh..
Maybe there are too many events..
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Curious_Death✭✭✭✭✭CallmeFishmeal wrote: »With the launch of the Murkmire event, I've seen a pattern that ZOS has been leaning towards these past couple of events. To simply put it, these events are turning into cash grabs for ZOS. Before the Murkmire event started, I couldn't wait to get a voriplasm pet cause I think they look really cool! (Like Flubber or something.) On the second day of the event, I realized that it will be impossible for me to obtain the pet unless I use real money to buy crowns and pay for the individual parts from the impresario, which I refuse to do. One reason is the event is too short to even collect all the fragments. Secondly, not only do the voriplasm pet fragments drop, but also some dumb memento that I'll never use. Thirdly, the drop rate for anything good is so low that it's frustrating. I feel like ZOS is trolling us out of our time and money. Don't get me wrong, I like participating in the events and playing the game in general, but I don't want to spend 5+ hours grinding in Murkmire in hopes to get a decent drop. I just want to kill a WB, do a delve, get my tickets and a well deserved fragment, and move on with my game. Same with the previous events, grinding for hours in Imperial Sewers - Midyear Mayhem - and dungeons - Undaunted - in hopes to get a new Style Page when the drop rates were ridiculously low. I will only have enough to tickets to get the berries and feathers, but nothing else the impresario offers. Why would ZOS say "earn a voriplasm pet, and memento" when it's impossible to get them without spending crowns/real money, or literally not sleep to grind for endless hours? Doesn't seem like "earning" them in my opinion. I've played only in Murkmire since the event began, mostly dailies, catching up on overlooked quests, and farming nodes, and have only got 1 memento fragment. Maybe I'm just ranting about my awful RNG, but I feel like if we want to get the rewards possible from this event, we have to spend real money, which is rather disappointing. (And no, I'm not spending my hard earned gold to buy crowns either. ZOS just needs to be fair with their events and make them fun and rewarding.)
I didnt even played this event - u re right we re getting less than more each day, each month, each year in this game:
they thinking we re getting less? then we gonna play more and spend more ... no this dont work this way - i earn less i play less ... they give less attention so do I pay less attention for this project.Edited by Curious_Death on February 24, 2020 9:12AM3 -
Sevalaricgirl✭✭✭✭✭I really dislike this events RNG element. That there is a CHANCE of NOT getting tickets is absolutely unacceptable. The strongboxes have crap contents. You cannot even exchange the fragments for the pet and memento.
Events are supposed to be an enjoyable extra bit in the game with rewards for participating. I realise the way it is now is so we will buy tickets from the store, but I absolutely refuse to be channelled towards the store. If that means I have to miss out on the gravestake memento and voriplasm pet, then so be it. I will buy from the store when and what -I- want to buy.
This is why I never have and never will buy a crown crate either. Because I am so against 1, the gambling aspect and 2, the double currency.
Poor show, ZOS, poor show! Shame on you!
I don't consider crates gambling. I know what I'm getting, crap that I can convert to currency I can use for the things I really want. So I convert all the poisons etc and come up with enough of the gems or whatever they are to buy what I want. Works for me.1 -
Rittings✭✭✭✭✭
✭5 days, 5 strongboxes... zero fragments. Already spent 10 tickets on spectral bloom thingy... so, I can't even make the needed 35 tickets to get one of the collectibles lol.
This event is probably the laziest and worst thought out of them all.4 -
Thaliff✭✭Artificial scarcity, combined with Fear of Missing Out, and you get crown/ticket purchases.
It's the tactics being employed here, ignore it or succumb to it, but I don't see ZO$ changing it.
5 -
biminirwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭I love this event, I got the Murkmire completion achievement. I have been unable to solo the last WB in a dead zone for months.
Thanks ZoS1 -
Granicus✭✭✭Not that I was all that keen on the stated rewards for this event I stopped putting any effort into this blatant cash grab on Day 2. Not at all worth my time, and definitely not enjoyable to me. Though I do recognize it could be for others.
My takeaway here is the obvious trend developing in the search for more money, money, money by ZOS. Many will see it, some will not and others will not care. Until the population drops enough even for them to notice and the cash grab mechanics will have escalated into overdrive to compensate for the dwindling population.
I too think that if this Event is the shape of things to come then no, thank you to future ones.PC/NA
PvE
Intel I9-9900K
32GB RAM
2x 1TB Samsung 970 Pro NVMe M.2 SSDs
Nvidia RTX 2080 TI 11GB2 -
Floyd_Stash✭✭✭ZoS lost touch with gamers and went full moneymilking on us playerbase.
Zenimax is *** the playerbase buildt by Bethesda, while all bethesda can do is cry while taking the blaim (often misunderstood by the ones blaiming that it's not beth but Zenimax they should hate.)
Zenimax is no longer a gaming company.
Zenimax is a monster. we have to slay it.. we have been training for it all our lives gamers rise up!Cancel your subscription - Only buy store items with ingame gold.
Accept the timesink, refuse the zenimax player-milking tactics!
- You are NOT a cow! Stop acting like one!4 -
Nirntrotter✭✭✭✭✭I'm honestly relieved that my completionist streak is confined to "achivements I have actual hopes of completing" and that neither the pet nor the memento is relevant to any of my characters. I will never understand how or why events eroded into something that feels more punishing than enjoyable. It's unnecessary to have a system in place where a percentage of players are left with the only option of BUYING tickets if they want to complete their collection, because RNGsus did not smile upon them.Edited by Nirntrotter on February 24, 2020 11:42AM4 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Artificial scarcity, combined with Fear of Missing Out, and you get crown/ticket purchases.
It's the tactics being employed here, ignore it or succumb to it, but I don't see ZO$ changing it.
I find it hard to get worked up over this. "Artificial scarcity" is a thing, but it is not like people have to spend more money to buy tickets with Crowns. I subscribe to ESO Plus, so I have 10's of thousands of Crowns that I don't know what to do with. ZOS does not stock the Crown Store with a lot of interesting things to buy with Crowns.
XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus2 -
ScardyFox✭✭✭✭✭Is their (ESO) mediocrity even a little surprising at this point with this kinda stuff?2 -
Magenpie✭✭✭✭✭Artificial scarcity, combined with Fear of Missing Out, and you get crown/ticket purchases.
It's the tactics being employed here, ignore it or succumb to it, but I don't see ZO$ changing it.
I find it hard to get worked up over this. "Artificial scarcity" is a thing, but it is not like people have to spend more money to buy tickets with Crowns. I subscribe to ESO Plus, so I have 10's of thousands of Crowns that I don't know what to do with. ZOS does not stock the Crown Store with a lot of interesting things to buy with Crowns.
Oh my word! Can I have some??!!! There's LOADS of things I'd like to buy.
I feel a bit torn about the event. I've subbed in bulk for the first time ever, and I've never played Murkmire before, and I think it's great. Love the zone, love the storyline.
However, as someone who's played a lot of other mmos, this event feels rather...joyless? If you're going to have an event to celebrate something in your game, then be celebratory!! Give people loads of pets to find, a mount to collect, lots of stupid toys and things to do? What on earth is stopping you?
I feel ZOS treats it's player base like the enemy, and despite having a great game in lots of ways, they don't encourage loyalty and warm fuzzies by being really stingy with the cosmetic rewards system in game. I honestly don't think people would stop spending money in the cash shop if they had more things to collect while playing. We should be running around happily clicking on jellies in the hope of finding rare jelly pets (or something) imho.
Other mmos do events better, with more fun involved.Edited by Magenpie on February 24, 2020 12:27PM5 -
Nirntrotter✭✭✭✭✭However, as someone who's played a lot of other mmos, this event feels rather...joyless? If you're going to have an event to celebrate something in your game, then be celebratory!! Give people loads of pets to find, a mount to collect, lots of stupid toys and things to do? What on earth is stopping you?
I feel ZOS treat it's player base like the enemy, and despite having a great game in lots of ways, they don't encourage loyalty and warm fuzzies by being really stingy with the cosmetic rewards system in game. I honestly don't think people would stop spending money in the cash shop if you give them more things to collect while playing. We should be running around happily clicking on jellies in the hope of finding rare jelly pets (or something) imho.
Other mmos do events better, with more fun involved.
Worded it much better than I did; agree wholeheartedly. This event is an event the same way a tomato is technically a fruit.
3 -
bodge2372✭✭✭I did 2/3 hours in Murkmire for 3 days running and just lost the will to play. It's so boring. Ended up switching alts and heading back to Elsweyr, which is way more fun and interesting. Even soloed a WB for the first time on a lvl29 alt(died twice till I figured my play out, but still.). That was way better than Murkmire. Needless to say no more of my alts will be going there unless it's for a treasure map.....
1 -
purple-magicb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Seems like, get your guaranteed strongbox and your done for the day, unless you want to farm for motifs by doing dailies. It's like a busy restaurant, you eat and then they push you out. Go get your coffee and dessert elsewhere, lol!I don't comment here often but when I do, I get [snip]0
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Nerouyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Rave the Histborn wrote: »There's more than enough time to collect all the fragments still. The forums are like the news, you only hear the worst of the worst and none of it really reflects the reality of the situation.
It is variable.
I've been doing this one across a couple of accounts.
One finished the grave stake memento today and has all but 3 pet parts. With a total 3 parts purchased with tickets just cos I already have all the berries and feathers. That account could safely not get any more parts drop in boxes and just buy the remainder with tickets.
Another has only gotten about 3 or 4 pieces total so far. Which is pretty abysmal and if I cared about that account having either I might be peeved like the OP. Also needs tickets for berries / feathers so won't be buying any parts. And I'm not expecting the client to finish downloading for about 4 or 5 days.
On the other hand, the last box which dropped for that first account had 3 of the memento pieces in it. Plus random junk. Previously all boxes had been 2 items, possibly one being a part. So there's some hope for everyone.
https://imgur.com/htxGzVa1 -
Rave the Histborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rave the Histborn wrote: »There's more than enough time to collect all the fragments still. The forums are like the news, you only hear the worst of the worst and none of it really reflects the reality of the situation.
It is variable.
I've been doing this one across a couple of accounts.
One finished the grave stake memento today and has all but 3 pet parts. With a total 3 parts purchased with tickets just cos I already have all the berries and feathers. That account could safely not get any more parts drop in boxes and just buy the remainder with tickets.
Another has only gotten about 3 or 4 pieces total so far. Which is pretty abysmal and if I cared about that account having either I might be peeved like the OP. Also needs tickets for berries / feathers so won't be buying any parts. And I'm not expecting the client to finish downloading for about 4 or 5 days.
On the other hand, the last box which dropped for that first account had 3 of the memento pieces in it. Plus random junk. Previously all boxes had been 2 items, possibly one being a part. So there's some hope for everyone.
https://imgur.com/htxGzVa
Yeah, I understand it's variable but even with your account that has 3-4 mementos isnt in a bad place. There's 8 days left and assuming you only get 7 fragments from them that means you'd be down 3-4 still. At 5 tickets a piece you can still get a berry and the rest of your mementos0 -
January1171✭✭✭✭✭I have nearly cleared the entire zone. Completed all quests, have nearly every achievement (with the exception of BRP, angler, style pages, and the daily achievements). I've spent the last four days in Murkmire, and all the killing/looting/collecting that entails. I got the first strongbox/tickets each one of the four days, and guess how many drops I got outside of that? One. Near total overland completion and one extra strongbox. That tells me, along with the other feedback here, that even though extra strongboxes are possible, it's an utter waste of time to purposely grind for them. It would be like trying to grind for aetherial dust. The only reason I'm staying in Murkmire is to finish up the achievements, and that''s only because I was gonna do it at some point and may as well do it now.
I'm one of those indrik collectors and completionists that wants everything in the game, but guess what? I'm fine with there being more event rewards than there are tickets for. I recognize not everyone wants the indriks, and this gives them options. So even thoiugh I'm a completionist I have had to prioritize what I buy. I am fine with it because up until now, there were options other than crown tickets to get everything. If there was something I really wanted, I could have bought them from other players or had a semi-reasonable drop rate if I were to grind for them (which I did- I spent the entire witches fest grinding world bosses and public dungeons)
This event has none of that. No tradeable fragments, terrible drop rate. Rewards for an event shouldn't be guaranteed, but should be realistically possible to earn through normal gameplay. That is definitely not the case here.
And the way I see it, there are two explanations for why ZOS did it this way. At best, they're trying to get people to actually play the zone and not just min/max the event. At worst, it's a total cash grab. Either way, it's horribly imbalanced. An event should be a fun incentive to play the content, not incentivizing burnout inducing grind.
Edited by January1171 on February 24, 2020 2:24PM3