Top players really run meta build?

Trancestor

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

The way you enjoy playing is unique to you.
It would be wise to wear sets and use skills that are tailored to that style of play.

This statement sums it up well.

At the end of the day you need to understand your own strengths and weaknesses as a human player before you worry about your character. Then you also have to account for the environment in which you play before you worry about all of this stuff.

For example ...

I’ve been playing ESO since PC launch and exclusively on XBox since then. The last two years have been sporadic at best but I no life’d the heck out of Cyrodiil from like 2015-2018. I’ve reached as high as number 2 for emperor in the beta and have had many top 100 campaign finishes. I’m not nearly a top level player any more but I dropped back into Cyrodiil yesterday on a whim and finished a kill 40 in just a few minutes. My build is off meta as can be but I know my strengths and weaknesses extremely well and have prepared for almost any situation that can come up.

My biggest weakness is that I have bad aim. I solved that by running two staves. When it gets laggy (the know your environment thing) I can still heavy attack you at the minimum just by blindly holding the trigger. The staff finds a target for me.

My second biggest weakness is that while I can animation cancel, I’m not good at it. I make up for this by having a massive 50K magic pool on my Templar. So when you burst me with a crazy animation cancel attack, I can actually win the resource management mini game, generally with 20K plus magic left over after I spam shields and heals.

I carry invisibility potions. I carry immovable potions. I use rapid maneuvers. I use Undeath and have 4 shields and heals equipped. All of these tools are in my tool belt way before I worry about gear.

In PVP if you are not running in a group you can go a long way simply with preparation. Being a B+ at every situation has a ton of benefits.

Last thing ... don’t be afraid to fail. Everyone dies in Cyrodiil. At the beginning I used to run a massive amount of heavy armor and over time I stripped it away. Now my guy basically wears Kleenex into war. At worst I die maybe 10% more often but 99% of my deaths would have happened regardless. The biggest misconception of ESO PVP is that you need survivability first. F that ... burn them all down and if you die, just have a fast horse.

What the f....

Kadoin

Thogard wrote: »

Wait... @Iskiab you think there wasn’t a dot meta during the patch before they nerfed all dots by 40-50%?

If you played mag and a healer spec, you still didn't have to worry about purifying it. Mag mag DK never purified the DoTs and I had little problem there as well even with a zerg attacking me. On live, now... had to swap to weaker build because it felt gross

Iskiab

@Thogard

Okay, incoming long post explaining myself but I think it's worth a read, usually when I see a wall of text I skim but it's a good story.

First I'll start with this, this is a screenshot that isn't a glitch, it's a 200k heal:
https://imgur.com/lqktzld

Cleanse right after the 5.2 patch was ridiculously OP, it said it removes 3 negative effects and healed for 10% per effect, but by stacking healing modifiers you could get it up to 14% per effect, and it removed effects from everyone in the entire raid. Add in healing received and it was around 2-3k per negative effect without a crit.

So this was during the 'dot meta' and everyone was running dots, cleanse being a 200k heal per cast and guess how things went... in no-CP a group of the size in the picture could roll around just slaughtering entire factions while being immune to almost all of their damage. That's why they had to hotfix cleanse to reduce the people effected to 6 people, and it was further nerfed to 5% per negative effect base which is probably around where it always should have been.

So forums at this time were about it being a 'Dot Meta' and everyone uses dots. I felt bad for people, but didn't want to spread info about an obvious mistake so other people could use it so typical threads were like this: Post: 'This dot meta', Me: 'There is no dot meta', over and over and over again while people ignored what I said and we slaughtered them nightly. I even tried it in a BG and it worked almost as well, at the same time dizzy stunned so I just stopped doing BGs.

Here's the funniest part, we had a couple of new people in the guild and I told them they should try out cleanse because it's good. Their reply? 'I've been playing since Beta, I'm an expert, cleanse isn't worth it'. That's when I realized I lot of people are morons and tryhards in this game, if it was just one okay... but multiple people with the same attitude? The cost of trying new abilities is pretty high because it takes a long time to level skills, plus changing gear can be rough with limited inventory space, and the system is designed to waste your time doing banking. Point being, the amount of try hards is staggering who're set in their ways, think they know everything, and stop adapting and become outdated... then blame the game because of their personality flaws.

technohic

Iskiab wrote: »

@Thogard

Okay, incoming long post explaining myself but I think it's worth a read, usually when I see a wall of text I skim but it's a good story.

First I'll start with this, this is a screenshot that isn't a glitch, it's a 200k heal:
https://imgur.com/lqktzld

Cleanse right after the 5.2 patch was ridiculously OP, it said it removes 3 negative effects and healed for 10% per effect, but by stacking healing modifiers you could get it up to 14% per effect, and it removed effects from everyone in the entire raid. Add in healing received and it was around 2-3k per negative effect without a crit.

So this was during the 'dot meta' and everyone was running dots, cleanse being a 200k heal per cast and guess how things went... in no-CP a group of the size in the picture could roll around just slaughtering entire factions while being immune to almost all of their damage. That's why they had to hotfix cleanse to reduce the people effected to 6 people, and it was further nerfed to 5% per negative effect base which is probably around where it always should have been.

So forums at this time were about it being a 'Dot Meta' and everyone uses dots. I felt bad for people, but didn't want to spread info about an obvious mistake so other people could use it so typical threads were like this: Post: 'This dot meta', Me: 'There is no dot meta', over and over and over again while people ignored what I said and we slaughtered them nightly. I even tried it in a BG and it worked almost as well, at the same time dizzy stunned so I just stopped doing BGs.

Here's the funniest part, we had a couple of new people in the guild and I told them they should try out cleanse because it's good. Their reply? 'I've been playing since Beta, I'm an expert, cleanse isn't worth it'. That's when I realized I lot of people are morons and tryhards in this game, if it was just one okay... but multiple people with the same attitude? The cost of trying new abilities is pretty high because it takes a long time to level skills, plus changing gear can be rough with limited inventory space, and the system is designed to waste your time doing banking. Point being, the amount of try hards is staggering who're set in their ways, think they know everything, and stop adapting and become outdated... then blame the game because of their personality flaws.

I dont often agree with you but you are right in there were better ways to kill than DOTs but indeed was the meta as they were super strong and easy.

You are also right about purge. Nobody wants to listen and tell about that 7-8k cost but it has benefits and they ignore efficient purge is just slightly more mag than Templars ER. You dont get the AOE hot, but your allies get CCs and DOTs removed automatically.

Crixus8000

While those are popular set choices, I think that combination will be seen often in cp. In no cp, players have many types of builds and ususally people make their own build to fit their playstyle.

I won't say that sets don't make a huge difference ofc, but you can see good players 1vxing in pretty much anything they want since they know how the game works. So it's best to learn how it works and choose your race, sets, glyphs and everything based on what you need for how you play

Nemeliom

Sneakers wrote: »

With that said, you have certain classes like NB and Necro who got access to MAJOR DEFILE, they can play it a little bit diffrent.

NB don't have access to major defile anymore unless you go magicka.

Nemeliom

Sneakers wrote: »

Generally speaking for solo PVP, my approach is use gear tanky enough so you can survive and play the build and experience it.
You will be able to kill 10-15% of people at the start cus your damage will be lacking for the other 90%. But you will survive and draw them/gain experience playing.

Now once you get better and get to a point were "damn id smash this guy if i had more burst/dps" - you tinker and tune your build. Weight it towards little more dps/burst. Little by little you will adapt to having slightly lower dmg mitigation and little more dmg.

After a while you will be very weighted towards massive damage but very little defence, but still surviving just as good as you did when you started off with your tankier version (of the same build).

So very true. This is a pro tip for people looking to learn to play a class/build.

MaxJrFTW

Iskiab wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Wait... @Iskiab you think there wasn’t a dot meta during the patch before they nerfed all dots by 40-50%?

Nope.

Why were dots nerfed then? Why were pvers running 6-9 dots on their bars. Why were pvpers running 4+ dots. Why were death recaps nothing but dots.

Is this your hobby? Making nonsensical posts for the sake of getting reactions?

Nvm, we had this discussion months ago. You're a contrarian, and you get your kick out of disagreeing with people and creating pointless arguments for lack of anything better to do. To each their own, i guess.

Iskiab

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Wait... @Iskiab you think there wasn’t a dot meta during the patch before they nerfed all dots by 40-50%?

Nope.

Why were dots nerfed then? Why were pvers running 6-9 dots on their bars. Why were pvpers running 4+ dots. Why were death recaps nothing but dots.

Is this your hobby? Making nonsensical posts for the sake of getting reactions?

Nvm, we had this discussion months ago. You're a contrarian, and you get your kick out of disagreeing with people and creating pointless arguments for lack of anything better to do. To each their own, i guess.

Look at my post above. The ‘top pvpers’ at the time were getting farmed. I think you fall into the tryhard category I was talking about.

If you can’t see why cleanse being a 8-16k per player raidwide heal (in pvp so with battlespirit) completely negated dots, and made those who use them free AP I don’t think there’s a point in trying to explain it anymore.

Iskiab

technohic wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

@Thogard

Okay, incoming long post explaining myself but I think it's worth a read, usually when I see a wall of text I skim but it's a good story.

First I'll start with this, this is a screenshot that isn't a glitch, it's a 200k heal:
https://imgur.com/lqktzld

Cleanse right after the 5.2 patch was ridiculously OP, it said it removes 3 negative effects and healed for 10% per effect, but by stacking healing modifiers you could get it up to 14% per effect, and it removed effects from everyone in the entire raid. Add in healing received and it was around 2-3k per negative effect without a crit.

So this was during the 'dot meta' and everyone was running dots, cleanse being a 200k heal per cast and guess how things went... in no-CP a group of the size in the picture could roll around just slaughtering entire factions while being immune to almost all of their damage. That's why they had to hotfix cleanse to reduce the people effected to 6 people, and it was further nerfed to 5% per negative effect base which is probably around where it always should have been.

So forums at this time were about it being a 'Dot Meta' and everyone uses dots. I felt bad for people, but didn't want to spread info about an obvious mistake so other people could use it so typical threads were like this: Post: 'This dot meta', Me: 'There is no dot meta', over and over and over again while people ignored what I said and we slaughtered them nightly. I even tried it in a BG and it worked almost as well, at the same time dizzy stunned so I just stopped doing BGs.

Here's the funniest part, we had a couple of new people in the guild and I told them they should try out cleanse because it's good. Their reply? 'I've been playing since Beta, I'm an expert, cleanse isn't worth it'. That's when I realized I lot of people are morons and tryhards in this game, if it was just one okay... but multiple people with the same attitude? The cost of trying new abilities is pretty high because it takes a long time to level skills, plus changing gear can be rough with limited inventory space, and the system is designed to waste your time doing banking. Point being, the amount of try hards is staggering who're set in their ways, think they know everything, and stop adapting and become outdated... then blame the game because of their personality flaws.

I dont often agree with you but you are right in there were better ways to kill than DOTs but indeed was the meta as they were super strong and easy.

You are also right about purge. Nobody wants to listen and tell about that 7-8k cost but it has benefits and they ignore efficient purge is just slightly more mag than Templars ER. You dont get the AOE hot, but your allies get CCs and DOTs removed automatically.

If a healer’s experienced and knows how to do basic theorycrafting it’s not difficult to setup a build that can almost spam cleanse. Seducer + Breton + 5L and cleanse’s cost goes down to 5k. Infused mag regen jewellery and you have 4k mag recovery.

You can also approach it from a sorc perspective: 5L - seducer - wood elf and with dark conversion you’ll have even more magicka spend, alternating dark conversion and cleanse you get the best possible recovery. Add in negate and it’s why sorc healers are among the best pvp healers, only downside is they don’t have access to any real form of mending so their cleanses heal for less.

wheem_ESO

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Wait... @Iskiab you think there wasn’t a dot meta during the patch before they nerfed all dots by 40-50%?

Nope.

Why were dots nerfed then? Why were pvers running 6-9 dots on their bars. Why were pvpers running 4+ dots. Why were death recaps nothing but dots.

Is this your hobby? Making nonsensical posts for the sake of getting reactions?

Nvm, we had this discussion months ago. You're a contrarian, and you get your kick out of disagreeing with people and creating pointless arguments for lack of anything better to do. To each their own, i guess.

People were freaking out over DOTs in Scalebreaker, but it was way overblown. Stamina builds had been able to get DOT ticks approaching 2k every 2 seconds with Master Dual Wield, including from off-GCD procs, and seemed to think that it was completely balanced and awesome. But when Magicka gets access to a few DOTs that tick for in the ballpark of 50-66% of that, it suddenly became torches-and-pitchforks time.

A lot of the people calling for nerfs were going ALL CAPS in posts even though they didn't understand what they were talking about, thinking that each DOT ticked every 1 second, instead of every 2. They were completely ignoring the fact that their Stamina-based spammable was doing as much or more damage in 1 second than Magicka DOTs were doing over their full duration. There was also some complaining about how they couldn't dodge roll individual ticks...despite the fact that the application could be dodged, and they didn't seem to understand how that was just like a spammable; dodging after it hits you shouldn't reduce the damage.

A lot of the forum complaints translated in my head this way:
"My Biting Jabs can do like 5k-7k damage in 1 second, plus might proc Burning Light for another 2-3k'ish, but last time I died there was a Degeneration on my recap for 6k damage over 6 ticks even though I was spamming dodge rolls in order to take 0 damage from all the other attacks coming my way, and I find that totally unacceptable. Nerf immediately plz."

And now we're back to Degeneration being a garbage ability, but one that gets used on many builds in PvP because chugging expensive potions on cooldown kinda stinks.

MusCanus

Iskiab wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Wait... @Iskiab you think there wasn’t a dot meta during the patch before they nerfed all dots by 40-50%?

Nope.

Why were dots nerfed then? Why were pvers running 6-9 dots on their bars. Why were pvpers running 4+ dots. Why were death recaps nothing but dots.

Is this your hobby? Making nonsensical posts for the sake of getting reactions?

Nvm, we had this discussion months ago. You're a contrarian, and you get your kick out of disagreeing with people and creating pointless arguments for lack of anything better to do. To each their own, i guess.

Look at my post above. The ‘top pvpers’ at the time were getting farmed. I think you fall into the tryhard category I was talking about.

If you can’t see why cleanse being a 8-16k per player raidwide heal (in pvp so with battlespirit) completely negated dots, and made those who use them free AP I don’t think there’s a point in trying to explain it anymore.

Not everyone is/was zerging or ball grouping. A lot of people prefer solo or unorganized small scale, and there WAS a dot meta in duels and pug BGs. A "pocket healer meta" is still a thing, as the off healing is still grossly strong, and was even more so during the dot meta.

wheem_ESO

MusCanus wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Wait... @Iskiab you think there wasn’t a dot meta during the patch before they nerfed all dots by 40-50%?

Nope.

Why were dots nerfed then? Why were pvers running 6-9 dots on their bars. Why were pvpers running 4+ dots. Why were death recaps nothing but dots.

Is this your hobby? Making nonsensical posts for the sake of getting reactions?

Nvm, we had this discussion months ago. You're a contrarian, and you get your kick out of disagreeing with people and creating pointless arguments for lack of anything better to do. To each their own, i guess.

Look at my post above. The ‘top pvpers’ at the time were getting farmed. I think you fall into the tryhard category I was talking about.

If you can’t see why cleanse being a 8-16k per player raidwide heal (in pvp so with battlespirit) completely negated dots, and made those who use them free AP I don’t think there’s a point in trying to explain it anymore.

Not everyone is/was zerging or ball grouping. A lot of people prefer solo or unorganized small scale, and there WAS a dot meta in duels and pug BGs. A "pocket healer meta" is still a thing, as the off healing is still grossly strong, and was even more so during the dot meta.

There was a "DOT Meta" in the sense that a lot of people were using DOTs, but the supposed effectiveness was way overblown.

I do essentially all of my PvP solo queueing in no-CP Battlegrounds (with the occasional 4v4v4 premade-only games back then), and Scalebreaker was the only patch where it felt like my Magicka Necromancer had an acceptable level of offense (setting aside the self-synergy + Harmony gimmick). Still, it's not like I could load up on nothing but DOTs and wreck everyone. Even without a lot of cleansing on opposing teams, I'd still need Blastbones to actually work, and combo that with an Ultimate and Vamp Drain if I wanted to actually land kills on anyone decent. DOTs simply allowed for some pressure damage, and would keep Stamina players from being able to go 100% all out offense, then dodge roll and sprint for 3 seconds in order to reset every fight that didn't go their way.

All that said, I'm not entirely opposed to some tweaks to what DOTs were in Scalebreaker, but completely ruining their damage (plus the damage of the Skeletal Mage, which literally no one even complained about) wasn't the right way to go. At least not without some other changes being made...like Degeneration getting some utility improvements or something.

NBrookus

Saying there was no DOT meta because you have a large group with dedicated purge spammers is ignoring what everyone else was doing.

MusCanus

wheem_ESO wrote: »

it's not like I could load up on nothing but DOTs and wreck everyone.

Dots were never supposed to straight wreck someone but to provide pressure and prevent them from instaheal out of execute range back to full hp.

Thogard

Iskiab wrote: »

@Thogard

Okay, incoming long post explaining myself but I think it's worth a read, usually when I see a wall of text I skim but it's a good story.

First I'll start with this, this is a screenshot that isn't a glitch, it's a 200k heal:
https://imgur.com/lqktzld

Cleanse right after the 5.2 patch was ridiculously OP, it said it removes 3 negative effects and healed for 10% per effect, but by stacking healing modifiers you could get it up to 14% per effect, and it removed effects from everyone in the entire raid. Add in healing received and it was around 2-3k per negative effect without a crit.

So this was during the 'dot meta' and everyone was running dots, cleanse being a 200k heal per cast and guess how things went... in no-CP a group of the size in the picture could roll around just slaughtering entire factions while being immune to almost all of their damage. That's why they had to hotfix cleanse to reduce the people effected to 6 people, and it was further nerfed to 5% per negative effect base which is probably around where it always should have been.

So forums at this time were about it being a 'Dot Meta' and everyone uses dots. I felt bad for people, but didn't want to spread info about an obvious mistake so other people could use it so typical threads were like this: Post: 'This dot meta', Me: 'There is no dot meta', over and over and over again while people ignored what I said and we slaughtered them nightly. I even tried it in a BG and it worked almost as well, at the same time dizzy stunned so I just stopped doing BGs.

Here's the funniest part, we had a couple of new people in the guild and I told them they should try out cleanse because it's good. Their reply? 'I've been playing since Beta, I'm an expert, cleanse isn't worth it'. That's when I realized I lot of people are morons and tryhards in this game, if it was just one okay... but multiple people with the same attitude? The cost of trying new abilities is pretty high because it takes a long time to level skills, plus changing gear can be rough with limited inventory space, and the system is designed to waste your time doing banking. Point being, the amount of try hards is staggering who're set in their ways, think they know everything, and stop adapting and become outdated... then blame the game because of their personality flaws.

Yeah dude everyone knew about purge.

Why was it so effective? Because it worked well against people stacking dots.

Why were so many people stacking dots?

because we were in a DOT meta

Congrats on running one of the well-known counters on a magicka based healer.

Not everyone plays with a healer. Some of us are solo. And just because you ran a counter doesn’t make DOTs not the meta. I’m a narcissistic person but wow, bro.

Iskiab

Thogard wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

@Thogard

Okay, incoming long post explaining myself but I think it's worth a read, usually when I see a wall of text I skim but it's a good story.

First I'll start with this, this is a screenshot that isn't a glitch, it's a 200k heal:
https://imgur.com/lqktzld

Cleanse right after the 5.2 patch was ridiculously OP, it said it removes 3 negative effects and healed for 10% per effect, but by stacking healing modifiers you could get it up to 14% per effect, and it removed effects from everyone in the entire raid. Add in healing received and it was around 2-3k per negative effect without a crit.

So this was during the 'dot meta' and everyone was running dots, cleanse being a 200k heal per cast and guess how things went... in no-CP a group of the size in the picture could roll around just slaughtering entire factions while being immune to almost all of their damage. That's why they had to hotfix cleanse to reduce the people effected to 6 people, and it was further nerfed to 5% per negative effect base which is probably around where it always should have been.

So forums at this time were about it being a 'Dot Meta' and everyone uses dots. I felt bad for people, but didn't want to spread info about an obvious mistake so other people could use it so typical threads were like this: Post: 'This dot meta', Me: 'There is no dot meta', over and over and over again while people ignored what I said and we slaughtered them nightly. I even tried it in a BG and it worked almost as well, at the same time dizzy stunned so I just stopped doing BGs.

Here's the funniest part, we had a couple of new people in the guild and I told them they should try out cleanse because it's good. Their reply? 'I've been playing since Beta, I'm an expert, cleanse isn't worth it'. That's when I realized I lot of people are morons and tryhards in this game, if it was just one okay... but multiple people with the same attitude? The cost of trying new abilities is pretty high because it takes a long time to level skills, plus changing gear can be rough with limited inventory space, and the system is designed to waste your time doing banking. Point being, the amount of try hards is staggering who're set in their ways, think they know everything, and stop adapting and become outdated... then blame the game because of their personality flaws.

Yeah dude everyone knew about purge.

Why was it so effective? Because it worked well against people stacking dots.

Why were so many people stacking dots?

because we were in a DOT meta

Congrats on running one of the well-known counters on a magicka based healer.

Not everyone plays with a healer. Some of us are solo. And just because you ran a counter doesn’t make DOTs not the meta. I’m a narcissistic person but wow, bro.

So there was a dot meta in duels maybe? I almost think they nerfed dots to save people from themselves, you didn’t need 18 people for cleanse to be effective, it’s just with 18 people it became a 200k heal. Even in BGs you could go in and decimate all the other teams, when I went in as a premade I had a 100% win rate, I only did maybe 10 but didn’t see a point in doing more so took a break from them.

Meta = most efficient tactics available. It’s either the most efficient tactic or it wasn’t.

It isn’t narcicism about saying farming people with no deaths. Before it was fixed was when fengrush, pale orc, etc... quit no-CP and went back to CP. You could probably ask them about it, they were probably wondering what the heck was going on... what was going on was cleanse was broken.

Thogard

Yeah dude everyone knew cleanse was broken. It’s featured prominently in my YouTube uploads at the time.

The reason it was broken is because so many people ran DOTs

I don’t know how else to explain it.
You: “DOTs weren’t common or strong”
Also you: “I used an OP skill that worked best when people stacked DOTs on my team”

The disconnect is real.

Iskiab

Thogard wrote: »

Yeah dude everyone knew cleanse was broken. It’s featured prominently in my YouTube uploads at the time.

The reason it was broken is because so many people ran DOTs

I don’t know how else to explain it.
You: “DOTs weren’t common or strong”
Also you: “I used an OP skill that worked best when people stacked DOTs on my team”

The disconnect is real.

Well, then let’s just say dot tooltips were high and also completely ineffective if there was a competent healer around. I don’t see how anyone could argue against that.

MartiniDaniels

Thogard wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

@Thogard

Okay, incoming long post explaining myself but I think it's worth a read, usually when I see a wall of text I skim but it's a good story.

First I'll start with this, this is a screenshot that isn't a glitch, it's a 200k heal:
https://imgur.com/lqktzld

Cleanse right after the 5.2 patch was ridiculously OP, it said it removes 3 negative effects and healed for 10% per effect, but by stacking healing modifiers you could get it up to 14% per effect, and it removed effects from everyone in the entire raid. Add in healing received and it was around 2-3k per negative effect without a crit.

So this was during the 'dot meta' and everyone was running dots, cleanse being a 200k heal per cast and guess how things went... in no-CP a group of the size in the picture could roll around just slaughtering entire factions while being immune to almost all of their damage. That's why they had to hotfix cleanse to reduce the people effected to 6 people, and it was further nerfed to 5% per negative effect base which is probably around where it always should have been.

So forums at this time were about it being a 'Dot Meta' and everyone uses dots. I felt bad for people, but didn't want to spread info about an obvious mistake so other people could use it so typical threads were like this: Post: 'This dot meta', Me: 'There is no dot meta', over and over and over again while people ignored what I said and we slaughtered them nightly. I even tried it in a BG and it worked almost as well, at the same time dizzy stunned so I just stopped doing BGs.

Here's the funniest part, we had a couple of new people in the guild and I told them they should try out cleanse because it's good. Their reply? 'I've been playing since Beta, I'm an expert, cleanse isn't worth it'. That's when I realized I lot of people are morons and tryhards in this game, if it was just one okay... but multiple people with the same attitude? The cost of trying new abilities is pretty high because it takes a long time to level skills, plus changing gear can be rough with limited inventory space, and the system is designed to waste your time doing banking. Point being, the amount of try hards is staggering who're set in their ways, think they know everything, and stop adapting and become outdated... then blame the game because of their personality flaws.

Yeah dude everyone knew about purge.

Why was it so effective? Because it worked well against people stacking dots.

Why were so many people stacking dots?

because we were in a DOT meta

Congrats on running one of the well-known counters on a magicka based healer.

Not everyone plays with a healer. Some of us are solo. And just because you ran a counter doesn’t make DOTs not the meta. I’m a narcissistic person but wow, bro.

From what I saw magicka dot meta was during 1-2 weeks after U23 landed (in solo play) but then so many dizzy-onslaught swingers appeared that all those mages moved back to groups/keeps (with exception of magsorcs of course). So U23 was actually fun patch where both burst and dots builds were good. Maybe it was brightest dot patch, but still dots weren't the only way to play. Dizzy was POWERFUL as well as 12 second length onslaught.

Kaysha

I think this thread can be closed. It was a really good thread untill you started argueing about dots and purges...

technohic

Kaysha wrote: »

I think this thread can be closed. It was a really good thread untill you started argueing about dots and purges...

It's kind of fitting.

DOTs were in fact, the meta for most people as it was easy damage, yet a lot of the top players ran more burst builds in stead, primarily because of 0 cast time, 12 second onslaught paired with recently buffed executioner. So it really is an example of top players not running meta, although you can argue the meta was wrong because people didn't realize it wasnt the best, just the easiest.

And also; purge and its morph on a dedicated spammer who needs nothing more than a lot of sustain, is still what enables these blob groups today. It's never been dealt with

BaiterOfZergs

There can be more than one meta. So dots can be meta while the meta counter to it would be purge. Just like how before it was meta to be a nb bombing emp but they were the furthest from being one of the top classes outside of bombing and ball groups.

One thing being meta does not take away from something else being meta, especially in a game where there’s different scales of combat.

Commandment

Bet you, those top player's don't post there real builds. They post decent builds, but they won't give you all the secrets.

Time spent on finding what gear and skills work together is the real key to making a good build.

Iskiab

Commandment wrote: »

Bet you, those top player's don't post there real builds. They post decent builds, but they won't give you all the secrets.

Time spent on finding what gear and skills work together is the real key to making a good build.

A lot of it is just L2P, I know for me I didn’t know you could spam rally or trellis until recently. Trellis spam is as close to a burst heal as wardens gets, and I had no clue you could do it until... pvp rank 18 or so?

Guides might be right, but they never say what makes the build good from my experience, or how to play it. There are little tricks on almost every class that effects performance a ton, you either know it or you don’t, and the people who don’t are the ones crying about their class being gimped.

Thogard

Commandment wrote: »

Bet you, those top player's don't post there real builds. They post decent builds, but they won't give you all the secrets.

Time spent on finding what gear and skills work together is the real key to making a good build.

It’s pretty easy to tell what someone is wearing if you duel them enough

Rahar

Commandment wrote: »

Bet you, those top player's don't post there real builds. They post decent builds, but they won't give you all the secrets.

Time spent on finding what gear and skills work together is the real key to making a good build.

Builds really aren't rocket science or complex arcane rituals that you want to keep secret. You can typically tell what people wear when fighting them (as Thogard said, above -- typically by set effect animations and death recaps and common sense) and it's not too hard to guess the fine tuning based on what's the most effective (mundus, enchants, traits, race, attributes if applicable), so the pudding really is in who is playing it, not some kind of secret society of build architects that hoard all of the good ones.

Stibbons

Join the stamina meta with hvy armor if needed.

technohic

Stibbons wrote: »

Join the stamina meta with hvy armor if needed.

I was about to agree with this; and it may be accurate. The meta is the meta. But I went and built my magplar to have similar numbers to my stam running the fury, NMA, BS stuff. Have to give it a try but the fall of magicka mostly is executes suck or cannot weave as follow up as fast as the stam counter parts outside of sorc preset , medium/heavy attacks are to slow on staffs, and you are at an effective weapon damage disadvantage for barring it in melee, and root/snare immunity is 2 seconds tops. Then they've nerfed all classes so much that outside if jabs/sweeps, it's almost always better to run dizzy

Advantages of magicka are you have a lot more access to class staples. You get in a fight with thogards DK build there and watch the DOTS tick as an example; ER cost on a stamplar will only work so long. You also can use that more readily for groups, and you have group heal. Most of the best group support and defenses outside of blocking and dodge roll is magicka. If you talk templars, it's a lot easier as magicka as your HOT comes from being aggressive if not as potent as keeping vigor up. Cries will eventually nerf that class though.

I could drone on all day but I guess I agree when discussing the context of independent builds, but disagree that theres not a place where magicka shines. Theres always going to be a best, so might as well follow whatever that is for what you want to do.

Iskiab

technohic wrote: »

Stibbons wrote: »

Join the stamina meta with hvy armor if needed.

I was about to agree with this; and it may be accurate. The meta is the meta. But I went and built my magplar to have similar numbers to my stam running the fury, NMA, BS stuff. Have to give it a try but the fall of magicka mostly is executes suck or cannot weave as follow up as fast as the stam counter parts outside of sorc preset , medium/heavy attacks are to slow on staffs, and you are at an effective weapon damage disadvantage for barring it in melee, and root/snare immunity is 2 seconds tops. Then they've nerfed all classes so much that outside if jabs/sweeps, it's almost always better to run dizzy

Advantages of magicka are you have a lot more access to class staples. You get in a fight with thogards DK build there and watch the DOTS tick as an example; ER cost on a stamplar will only work so long. You also can use that more readily for groups, and you have group heal. Most of the best group support and defenses outside of blocking and dodge roll is magicka. If you talk templars, it's a lot easier as magicka as your HOT comes from being aggressive if not as potent as keeping vigor up. Cries will eventually nerf that class though.

I could drone on all day but I guess I agree when discussing the context of independent builds, but disagree that theres not a place where magicka shines. Theres always going to be a best, so might as well follow whatever that is for what you want to do.

I mostly do BGs and that’s how most classes play out, the only place where I’d point it doesn’t fit is magblade has an execute and magwarden doesn’t.

So far playing it feels like this patch magplar is already behind. The only competitive mag specs are MagWarden and Magsorc.