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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
Why I hate PUGs
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nickl413✭✭✭✭Wow, seems like I really touched a nerve here. It never occurred to me that someone might be annoyed that I know what drops they're getting. I think it's just a feature of LUI extended.
I do normally run with my guilds. No problem there.
Thanks for the perspective, folks.
It's not that you know what they're getting that creeps them out, it's you putting them on the spot and forcing them to make a decision on whether or not they want to keep it. A lot of people just collect all good pieces of every set just to have it in case they want to use it someday, and they don't know immediately whether or not they need the piece that just dropped. Telling someone No on the off chance that I might need this piece 2 years from now, or when I already have the set on 5 toons and I'm working on a 6th, kinda makes me feel like a jerk. So my choices are hand over the item or feel like a jerk. I don't like being put in that position. I didn't run the content for you, I ran it for me.
This is the exact same situation as someone asking you directly. Or is it just easier to be a jerk when the other guy is not aware that you are a jerk?
No it is not the same. Its the difference between a bucket for charitable donations siting on the counter and homeless guy directly asking you for the 5 bucks they saw you receive from the cashier. I'm not a jerk for ignoring the bucket, but the homeless guy knows I have the 5 bucks and he probably needs it more than I do.
It is the same. If you are not willing to donate 5 bucks you do not donate them. In any of those situations. And vice versa. It's just that in one situation you can convince yourself that you are not being a jerk just to make yourself feel better.
No it is not the same. If someone posts what they are looking for, I don't even have to read it, much less make a decision on it.0 -
Varana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
And then there's all the players who don't really check their drops, or don't bother to link stuff - not because they want to keep it, or are unwilling to trade, but just they forget, or don't care unless asked - i.e. they assume you're using the addon, or prefer everyone is pestering the group for stuff at the start (and then promptly don't remember you asked for it at the end). And then there's the players who just drop out of the group - you never asked for the stuff, so they immediately assume you're not looking for it. Others will refuse to trade anything exactly if you asked at the beginning, just to make sure that someone is guaranteed to lose in any case.Alienoutlaw wrote: »personally i am more than happy to trade gear i dont need with pugs in trials or dungeons...
How am I supposed to find out which kind of jerk player you are?Edited by Varana on December 8, 2019 5:04PM3 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Wow, seems like I really touched a nerve here. It never occurred to me that someone might be annoyed that I know what drops they're getting. I think it's just a feature of LUI extended.
I do normally run with my guilds. No problem there.
Thanks for the perspective, folks.
It's not that you know what they're getting that creeps them out, it's you putting them on the spot and forcing them to make a decision on whether or not they want to keep it. A lot of people just collect all good pieces of every set just to have it in case they want to use it someday, and they don't know immediately whether or not they need the piece that just dropped. Telling someone No on the off chance that I might need this piece 2 years from now, or when I already have the set on 5 toons and I'm working on a 6th, kinda makes me feel like a jerk. So my choices are hand over the item or feel like a jerk. I don't like being put in that position. I didn't run the content for you, I ran it for me.
This is the exact same situation as someone asking you directly. Or is it just easier to be a jerk when the other guy is not aware that you are a jerk?
No it is not the same. Its the difference between a bucket for charitable donations siting on the counter and homeless guy directly asking you for the 5 bucks they saw you receive from the cashier. I'm not a jerk for ignoring the bucket, but the homeless guy knows I have the 5 bucks and he probably needs it more than I do.
It is the same. If you are not willing to donate 5 bucks you do not donate them. In any of those situations. And vice versa. It's just that in one situation you can convince yourself that you are not being a jerk just to make yourself feel better.
No it is not the same. If someone posts what they are looking for, I don't even have to read it, much less make a decision on it.
So as I said. Being a jerk is easier when the other guy is not aware that you are a jerk.
3 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sheezabeast wrote: »What are you hiding in your loot that you are so secretive about, Vivec’s F list? Come on, your loot is rng and from the same pool as everyone else. It’s normal for kids to trade cards they don’t need like Pokémon or MTG or Yugioh. You’re simply personalizing something that isn’t personal. Your saddle comfy on that high horse?
It’s not about people being “secretive” about their loot — it’s about not wanting to be inundated with messages after every boss fight. I would expect that it begins to feel like nagging after a while. Just wait until the end of the trial; if people want to share their loot, they’ll share it.
Something does not add up. For the whole page you are preaching how easy it is to ignore a whisper (purposefully or not) and then you have a problem with whispers nagging you? So which one is it?
Uh. What? I’m saying that there are MULTIPLE REASONS why a person might not respond to a whisper. Irritation with frequent nagging for loot is ONE POSSIBLE REASON why someone might not respond, and it is a TOTALLY LEGITIMATE reason not to respond. Other reasons why people might not respond include, but are not limited to: (1) not speaking the language of the person who whispered you; (2) having chat minimized or using a minimalistic UI; (3) being AFK when the whisper came through; (4) missing a whisper among the veritable whisper bombardment one might get when a highly desirable piece of gear drops; (5) scrolling up to read something and then forgetting to scroll back down, etc.3 -
nickl413✭✭✭✭Wow, seems like I really touched a nerve here. It never occurred to me that someone might be annoyed that I know what drops they're getting. I think it's just a feature of LUI extended.
I do normally run with my guilds. No problem there.
Thanks for the perspective, folks.
It's not that you know what they're getting that creeps them out, it's you putting them on the spot and forcing them to make a decision on whether or not they want to keep it. A lot of people just collect all good pieces of every set just to have it in case they want to use it someday, and they don't know immediately whether or not they need the piece that just dropped. Telling someone No on the off chance that I might need this piece 2 years from now, or when I already have the set on 5 toons and I'm working on a 6th, kinda makes me feel like a jerk. So my choices are hand over the item or feel like a jerk. I don't like being put in that position. I didn't run the content for you, I ran it for me.
This is the exact same situation as someone asking you directly. Or is it just easier to be a jerk when the other guy is not aware that you are a jerk?
No it is not the same. Its the difference between a bucket for charitable donations siting on the counter and homeless guy directly asking you for the 5 bucks they saw you receive from the cashier. I'm not a jerk for ignoring the bucket, but the homeless guy knows I have the 5 bucks and he probably needs it more than I do.
It is the same. If you are not willing to donate 5 bucks you do not donate them. In any of those situations. And vice versa. It's just that in one situation you can convince yourself that you are not being a jerk just to make yourself feel better.
No it is not the same. If someone posts what they are looking for, I don't even have to read it, much less make a decision on it.
So as I said. Being a jerk is easier when the other guy is not aware that you are a jerk.
I'm actually a very nice, charitable person. This is why I feel like a jerk if I say no when I dont really have a good reason. But you are twisting this around into me actually being a jerk for saying no, proving my point.3 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Wow, seems like I really touched a nerve here. It never occurred to me that someone might be annoyed that I know what drops they're getting. I think it's just a feature of LUI extended.
I do normally run with my guilds. No problem there.
Thanks for the perspective, folks.
It's not that you know what they're getting that creeps them out, it's you putting them on the spot and forcing them to make a decision on whether or not they want to keep it. A lot of people just collect all good pieces of every set just to have it in case they want to use it someday, and they don't know immediately whether or not they need the piece that just dropped. Telling someone No on the off chance that I might need this piece 2 years from now, or when I already have the set on 5 toons and I'm working on a 6th, kinda makes me feel like a jerk. So my choices are hand over the item or feel like a jerk. I don't like being put in that position. I didn't run the content for you, I ran it for me.
This is the exact same situation as someone asking you directly. Or is it just easier to be a jerk when the other guy is not aware that you are a jerk?
No it is not the same. Its the difference between a bucket for charitable donations siting on the counter and homeless guy directly asking you for the 5 bucks they saw you receive from the cashier. I'm not a jerk for ignoring the bucket, but the homeless guy knows I have the 5 bucks and he probably needs it more than I do.
It is the same. If you are not willing to donate 5 bucks you do not donate them. In any of those situations. And vice versa. It's just that in one situation you can convince yourself that you are not being a jerk just to make yourself feel better.
No it is not the same. If someone posts what they are looking for, I don't even have to read it, much less make a decision on it.
So as I said. Being a jerk is easier when the other guy is not aware that you are a jerk.
I'm actually a very nice, charitable person. This is why I feel like a jerk if I say no when I dont really have a good reason. But you are twisting this around into me actually being a jerk for saying no, proving my point.
A truly nice and charitable person would have a problem with the act of not giving someone something they need for no good reason. You are just a selfish hypocrite who is concerned about your consiousness eating at you for directly saying "no" to someone.5 -
nickl413✭✭✭✭Wow, seems like I really touched a nerve here. It never occurred to me that someone might be annoyed that I know what drops they're getting. I think it's just a feature of LUI extended.
I do normally run with my guilds. No problem there.
Thanks for the perspective, folks.
It's not that you know what they're getting that creeps them out, it's you putting them on the spot and forcing them to make a decision on whether or not they want to keep it. A lot of people just collect all good pieces of every set just to have it in case they want to use it someday, and they don't know immediately whether or not they need the piece that just dropped. Telling someone No on the off chance that I might need this piece 2 years from now, or when I already have the set on 5 toons and I'm working on a 6th, kinda makes me feel like a jerk. So my choices are hand over the item or feel like a jerk. I don't like being put in that position. I didn't run the content for you, I ran it for me.
This is the exact same situation as someone asking you directly. Or is it just easier to be a jerk when the other guy is not aware that you are a jerk?
No it is not the same. Its the difference between a bucket for charitable donations siting on the counter and homeless guy directly asking you for the 5 bucks they saw you receive from the cashier. I'm not a jerk for ignoring the bucket, but the homeless guy knows I have the 5 bucks and he probably needs it more than I do.
It is the same. If you are not willing to donate 5 bucks you do not donate them. In any of those situations. And vice versa. It's just that in one situation you can convince yourself that you are not being a jerk just to make yourself feel better.
No it is not the same. If someone posts what they are looking for, I don't even have to read it, much less make a decision on it.
So as I said. Being a jerk is easier when the other guy is not aware that you are a jerk.
I'm actually a very nice, charitable person. This is why I feel like a jerk if I say no when I dont really have a good reason. But you are twisting this around into me actually being a jerk for saying no, proving my point.
A truly nice and charitable person would have a problem with the act of not giving someone something they need for no good reason. You are just a selfish hypocrite who is concerned about your consiousness eating at you for directly saying "no" to someone.
That was uncalled for. I am merely explaining my position here. Insults are not warranted.7 -
Sheezabeast✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Grand Master Crafter, Beta baby who grew with the game. PC/NA. @Sheezabeast if you have crafting needs!3 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Wow, seems like I really touched a nerve here. It never occurred to me that someone might be annoyed that I know what drops they're getting. I think it's just a feature of LUI extended.
I do normally run with my guilds. No problem there.
Thanks for the perspective, folks.
It's not that you know what they're getting that creeps them out, it's you putting them on the spot and forcing them to make a decision on whether or not they want to keep it. A lot of people just collect all good pieces of every set just to have it in case they want to use it someday, and they don't know immediately whether or not they need the piece that just dropped. Telling someone No on the off chance that I might need this piece 2 years from now, or when I already have the set on 5 toons and I'm working on a 6th, kinda makes me feel like a jerk. So my choices are hand over the item or feel like a jerk. I don't like being put in that position. I didn't run the content for you, I ran it for me.
This is the exact same situation as someone asking you directly. Or is it just easier to be a jerk when the other guy is not aware that you are a jerk?
No it is not the same. Its the difference between a bucket for charitable donations siting on the counter and homeless guy directly asking you for the 5 bucks they saw you receive from the cashier. I'm not a jerk for ignoring the bucket, but the homeless guy knows I have the 5 bucks and he probably needs it more than I do.
It is the same. If you are not willing to donate 5 bucks you do not donate them. In any of those situations. And vice versa. It's just that in one situation you can convince yourself that you are not being a jerk just to make yourself feel better.
No it is not the same. If someone posts what they are looking for, I don't even have to read it, much less make a decision on it.
So as I said. Being a jerk is easier when the other guy is not aware that you are a jerk.
I'm actually a very nice, charitable person. This is why I feel like a jerk if I say no when I dont really have a good reason. But you are twisting this around into me actually being a jerk for saying no, proving my point.
Not even worth it, man. There’s a subsection of MMO players who believe that they’re entitled to other people’s loot if they don’t plan on using it immediately. If you decide further along that you’re just going to deconstruct it for the mats, or that you’re going to save it for a possible future build, you’re a Bad Person™ and you should feel Bad.Edited by Aurielle on December 8, 2019 5:25PM2 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Wow, seems like I really touched a nerve here. It never occurred to me that someone might be annoyed that I know what drops they're getting. I think it's just a feature of LUI extended.
I do normally run with my guilds. No problem there.
Thanks for the perspective, folks.
It's not that you know what they're getting that creeps them out, it's you putting them on the spot and forcing them to make a decision on whether or not they want to keep it. A lot of people just collect all good pieces of every set just to have it in case they want to use it someday, and they don't know immediately whether or not they need the piece that just dropped. Telling someone No on the off chance that I might need this piece 2 years from now, or when I already have the set on 5 toons and I'm working on a 6th, kinda makes me feel like a jerk. So my choices are hand over the item or feel like a jerk. I don't like being put in that position. I didn't run the content for you, I ran it for me.
This is the exact same situation as someone asking you directly. Or is it just easier to be a jerk when the other guy is not aware that you are a jerk?
No it is not the same. Its the difference between a bucket for charitable donations siting on the counter and homeless guy directly asking you for the 5 bucks they saw you receive from the cashier. I'm not a jerk for ignoring the bucket, but the homeless guy knows I have the 5 bucks and he probably needs it more than I do.
It is the same. If you are not willing to donate 5 bucks you do not donate them. In any of those situations. And vice versa. It's just that in one situation you can convince yourself that you are not being a jerk just to make yourself feel better.
No it is not the same. If someone posts what they are looking for, I don't even have to read it, much less make a decision on it.
So as I said. Being a jerk is easier when the other guy is not aware that you are a jerk.
I'm actually a very nice, charitable person. This is why I feel like a jerk if I say no when I dont really have a good reason. But you are twisting this around into me actually being a jerk for saying no, proving my point.
A truly nice and charitable person would have a problem with the act of not giving someone something they need for no good reason. You are just a selfish hypocrite who is concerned about your consiousness eating at you for directly saying "no" to someone.
That was uncalled for. I am merely explaining my position here. Insults are not warranted.
None of what I said was an insult. Your position exactly aligns with this description.
In a situation where someone asks the whole group and not you directly for something you are happy to ignore their request or even weasel out of it by saying you might have not even seen it. But once you have to reply "no" to this request directly you end up feeling bad for it.4 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Not even worth it, man. There’s a subsection of MMO players who believe that they’re entitled to other people’s loot if they don’t plan on using it immediately. If you decide further along that you’re just going to deconstruct it for the mats, or that you’re going to save it for a possible future build, you’re a Bad Person™ and you should feel Bad.
I'm so glad that we agree.Your loot is your loot. And you are not obliged to give it to anyone. There is no reason to feel like you are doing a bad thing by not giving someone a drop you want to keep. You just say "no, I need it" and that's it.
2 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Wow, seems like I really touched a nerve here. It never occurred to me that someone might be annoyed that I know what drops they're getting. I think it's just a feature of LUI extended.
I do normally run with my guilds. No problem there.
Thanks for the perspective, folks.
It's not that you know what they're getting that creeps them out, it's you putting them on the spot and forcing them to make a decision on whether or not they want to keep it. A lot of people just collect all good pieces of every set just to have it in case they want to use it someday, and they don't know immediately whether or not they need the piece that just dropped. Telling someone No on the off chance that I might need this piece 2 years from now, or when I already have the set on 5 toons and I'm working on a 6th, kinda makes me feel like a jerk. So my choices are hand over the item or feel like a jerk. I don't like being put in that position. I didn't run the content for you, I ran it for me.
This is the exact same situation as someone asking you directly. Or is it just easier to be a jerk when the other guy is not aware that you are a jerk?
No it is not the same. Its the difference between a bucket for charitable donations siting on the counter and homeless guy directly asking you for the 5 bucks they saw you receive from the cashier. I'm not a jerk for ignoring the bucket, but the homeless guy knows I have the 5 bucks and he probably needs it more than I do.
It is the same. If you are not willing to donate 5 bucks you do not donate them. In any of those situations. And vice versa. It's just that in one situation you can convince yourself that you are not being a jerk just to make yourself feel better.
No it is not the same. If someone posts what they are looking for, I don't even have to read it, much less make a decision on it.
So as I said. Being a jerk is easier when the other guy is not aware that you are a jerk.
I'm actually a very nice, charitable person. This is why I feel like a jerk if I say no when I dont really have a good reason. But you are twisting this around into me actually being a jerk for saying no, proving my point.
A truly nice and charitable person would have a problem with the act of not giving someone something they need for no good reason. You are just a selfish hypocrite who is concerned about your consiousness eating at you for directly saying "no" to someone.
That was uncalled for. I am merely explaining my position here. Insults are not warranted.
None of what I said was an insult. Your position exactly aligns with this description.
In a situation where someone asks the whole group and not you directly for something you are happy to ignore their request or even weasel out of it by saying you might have not even seen it. But once you have to reply "no" to this request directly you end up feeling bad for it.
You told someone that they were a “selfish hypocrite” for feeling bad about having to say no to someone because they’re not sure yet what they’re going to do with the gear. That feeling bad thing? It’s called empathy. On the one hand, you recognize that the person wants that piece of gear and would like to help them, but on the other, you’re NOT SURE yet what you want to do with the gear yourself. It feels bad to turn a person down, because you know they’re disappointed. That’s a normal, human response. Feeling bad for disappointing someone doesn’t make you a “selfish hypocrite.”9 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Not even worth it, man. There’s a subsection of MMO players who believe that they’re entitled to other people’s loot if they don’t plan on using it immediately. If you decide further along that you’re just going to deconstruct it for the mats, or that you’re going to save it for a possible future build, you’re a Bad Person™ and you should feel Bad.
I'm so glad that we agree.Your loot is your loot. And you are not obliged to give it to anyone. There is no reason to feel like you are doing a bad thing by not giving someone a drop you want to keep. You just say "no, I need it" and that's it.
That’s not what we’re agreeing about. I don’t necessarily know for sure if I need something or not. Maybe I do, maybe I don’t; the yo-yo nature of ESO’s balancing means that a lot of us hang onto gear that we don’t immediately need, because there’s a chance we might need it in future. Saying to someone “no, I need it” isn’t exactly a true statement in that case. I can see how frustrating this add-on could be to people who hoard all the gear they get in the off-chance that they might need it in the future. Every drop, they get multiple people whispering them directly with stuff like “do you need that chest? If not, I’d like to have it.” They don’t necessarily KNOW if they need it, and shouldn’t have to be put on the spot like that when group loot visibility is not part of the default UI.
2 -
Aztlan✭✭✭✭I've never considered this perspective, @Aurielle, and I appreciate it. It is a bit mindboggling, because that's not my experience of how people think while on guild runs. There, it is expected that everyone is invested in sharing with and helping the group. I can't imagine a guild mate deciding not to share a piece someone could use now on the off chance they might want it later. PUGs aren't like that as much, apparently.Edited by Aztlan on December 8, 2019 6:17PM0 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭That’s not what we’re agreeing about. I don’t necessarily know for sure if I need something or not. Maybe I do, maybe I don’t; the yo-yo nature of ESO’s balancing means that a lot of us hang onto gear that we don’t immediately need, because there’s a chance we might need it in future. Saying to someone “no, I need it” isn’t exactly a true statement in that case. I can see how frustrating this add-on could be to people who hoard all the gear they get in the off-chance that they might need it in the future. Every drop, they get multiple people whispering them directly with stuff like “do you need that chest? If not, I’d like to have it.” They don’t necessarily KNOW if they need it, and shouldn’t have to be put on the spot like that when group loot visibility is not part of the default UI.
Are we really going to argue the exact wording now? Fine, even "no, I want it" is entirely cool. I have no problem with people hoarding all they want. I reiterate my position. Not giving someone an item because you want to keep (for any reason) is your "sacred" right. But I do have a problem with people intentionally not giving someone an item they DON'T want just because they politely asked them through whispers.
And about the default UI and API. The accessible API is entirely determined by ZOS. If it was something they wanted to restrict (like grour member's damage or information about incoming attacks from stealth) they can do it in an instance. But group loot is still available through the API so ZOS is fine with it being accessible.You told someone that they were a “selfish hypocrite” for feeling bad about having to say no to someone because they’re not sure yet what they’re going to do with the gear. That feeling bad thing? It’s called empathy. On the one hand, you recognize that the person wants that piece of gear and would like to help them, but on the other, you’re NOT SURE yet what you want to do with the gear yourself. It feels bad to turn a person down, because you know they’re disappointed. That’s a normal, human response. Feeling bad for disappointing someone doesn’t make you a “selfish hypocrite.”
Once again, you are not a selfish hypocrite for keeping the item you want (right now or in the future). Or feeling bad about it.
The objective aspects of both situations we are discussing ("request to the whole group" and "direct request through whispers") are exactly the same. You end up having the item and the person who was asking does not. The only difference between those situations is your subjective "feeling bad". Which is why being fine with one situation ("request to the whole group") and feeling bad about the other ("direct request") is entirely selfish and hypocrtical. The objective aspect is the same but subjectively you find one acceptable and the other not based solely on your personal feelings. The person asking ends up being disappointed regardless.
I did not call him a "selfish hypocrite" for feeling bad about both situations. Nor NOT feeling bad about both situations. But for thinking that one is "ok" and that the other "makes you feel bad".
2 -
gatekeeper13✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭1. Even with notifications, there are MANY reasons why someone might not see the message.
2. False equivalency. Not everyone who fails to respond to a whisper then asks for loot at the end of a trial or dungeon.
Do you understand that I am talking about people who in the biggest percentage are active in the chat? You make random baseless assumptions without having any clue or personal experience of the situations I have faced. Yesterday, I was doing nFV for the ticket. One guy at the start of the dungeon asked for tzogvins dagger. I agreed to give him one and that I was only looking for tzogvin's amulet. He got the amulet, I didnt get a dagger and when I whispered him for the amulet, he didnt reply at all. Only left group. Same thing has happened numerous times both in dungeons and trials.
Edited by gatekeeper13 on December 8, 2019 7:45PM5 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭gatekeeper13 wrote: »1. Even with notifications, there are MANY reasons why someone might not see the message.
2. False equivalency. Not everyone who fails to respond to a whisper then asks for loot at the end of a trial or dungeon.
Do you understand that I am talking about people who in the biggest percentage are active in the chat? You make random baseless assumptions without having any clue or personal experience of the situations I have faced. Yesterday, I was doing nFV for the ticket. One guy at the start of the dungeon asked for tzogvins dagger. I agreed to give him one and that I was only looking for tzogvin's amulet. He got the amulet, I didnt get a dagger and when I asked whispered him for the amulet, he didnt reply at all. Only left group. Same thing has happened numerous times both in dungeons and trials.
Maybe he also needed the amulet??? Unless he specifically told you that he would give you the amulet if he got one, there’s no need to assume that this person was a jerk just because they didn’t respond to your follow-up whisper after you saw they got the neck piece.That’s not what we’re agreeing about. I don’t necessarily know for sure if I need something or not. Maybe I do, maybe I don’t; the yo-yo nature of ESO’s balancing means that a lot of us hang onto gear that we don’t immediately need, because there’s a chance we might need it in future. Saying to someone “no, I need it” isn’t exactly a true statement in that case. I can see how frustrating this add-on could be to people who hoard all the gear they get in the off-chance that they might need it in the future. Every drop, they get multiple people whispering them directly with stuff like “do you need that chest? If not, I’d like to have it.” They don’t necessarily KNOW if they need it, and shouldn’t have to be put on the spot like that when group loot visibility is not part of the default UI.
Are we really going to argue the exact wording now? Fine, even "no, I want it" is entirely cool. I have no problem with people hoarding all they want. I reiterate my position. Not giving someone an item because you want to keep (for any reason) is your "sacred" right. But I do have a problem with people intentionally not giving someone an item they DON'T want just because they politely asked them through whispers.
And about the default UI and API. The accessible API is entirely determined by ZOS. If it was something they wanted to restrict (like grour member's damage or information about incoming attacks from stealth) they can do it in an instance. But group loot is still available through the API so ZOS is fine with it being accessible.You told someone that they were a “selfish hypocrite” for feeling bad about having to say no to someone because they’re not sure yet what they’re going to do with the gear. That feeling bad thing? It’s called empathy. On the one hand, you recognize that the person wants that piece of gear and would like to help them, but on the other, you’re NOT SURE yet what you want to do with the gear yourself. It feels bad to turn a person down, because you know they’re disappointed. That’s a normal, human response. Feeling bad for disappointing someone doesn’t make you a “selfish hypocrite.”
Once again, you are not a selfish hypocrite for keeping the item you want (right now or in the future). Or feeling bad about it.
The objective aspects of both situations we are discussing ("request to the whole group" and "direct request through whispers") are exactly the same. You end up having the item and the person who was asking does not. The only difference between those situations is your subjective "feeling bad". Which is why being fine with one situation ("request to the whole group") and feeling bad about the other ("direct request") is entirely selfish and hypocrtical. The objective aspect is the same but subjectively you find one acceptable and the other not based solely on your personal feelings. The person asking ends up being disappointed regardless.
I did not call him a "selfish hypocrite" for feeling bad about both situations. Nor NOT feeling bad about both situations. But for thinking that one is "ok" and that the other "makes you feel bad".
Okay, that’s fair enough. We are more or less on the same page. I really don’t think the “selfish hypocrite” comment was justified, though.0 -
DarcyMardin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭While I personally would prefer to link whatever I don’t need at the end of the run rather than deal with whispers as the loot drops, the OP was, I think, most upset about something different — the player who hadn’t (for whatever reason) responded to his request for the chestpiece later accepted a trade with him and got a free shield that was meant for someone else.
This means he had to accept the shield trade in the trade window UI. That would be a conscious action, not dependent on any reasonable excuse like not seeing whispers or understanding English.
He then refused to return a piece of gear that he hadn’t asked for. Instead of responding to a whisper pointing out the mistake, he logged off.
Best case scenario is that he didn’t see the whispers and got kicked offline by the server. But since he had to click on the trade window to accept the shield, so I can see why the OP got upset.4 -
gatekeeper13✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Maybe he also needed the amulet??? Unless he specifically told you that he would give you the amulet if he got one, there’s no need to assume that this person was a jerk just because they didn’t respond to your follow-up whisper after you saw they got the neck piece.
My point is not that he should have given me the piece. It's that he didn't reply. Decent people answer when you ask them kindly. Positively or negatively, it doesnt matter. But they answer. Rude people just ignore you.Edited by gatekeeper13 on December 8, 2019 7:48PM4 -
nickl413✭✭✭✭That’s not what we’re agreeing about. I don’t necessarily know for sure if I need something or not. Maybe I do, maybe I don’t; the yo-yo nature of ESO’s balancing means that a lot of us hang onto gear that we don’t immediately need, because there’s a chance we might need it in future. Saying to someone “no, I need it” isn’t exactly a true statement in that case. I can see how frustrating this add-on could be to people who hoard all the gear they get in the off-chance that they might need it in the future. Every drop, they get multiple people whispering them directly with stuff like “do you need that chest? If not, I’d like to have it.” They don’t necessarily KNOW if they need it, and shouldn’t have to be put on the spot like that when group loot visibility is not part of the default UI.
Are we really going to argue the exact wording now? Fine, even "no, I want it" is entirely cool. I have no problem with people hoarding all they want. I reiterate my position. Not giving someone an item because you want to keep (for any reason) is your "sacred" right. But I do have a problem with people intentionally not giving someone an item they DON'T want just because they politely asked them through whispers.
And about the default UI and API. The accessible API is entirely determined by ZOS. If it was something they wanted to restrict (like grour member's damage or information about incoming attacks from stealth) they can do it in an instance. But group loot is still available through the API so ZOS is fine with it being accessible.You told someone that they were a “selfish hypocrite” for feeling bad about having to say no to someone because they’re not sure yet what they’re going to do with the gear. That feeling bad thing? It’s called empathy. On the one hand, you recognize that the person wants that piece of gear and would like to help them, but on the other, you’re NOT SURE yet what you want to do with the gear yourself. It feels bad to turn a person down, because you know they’re disappointed. That’s a normal, human response. Feeling bad for disappointing someone doesn’t make you a “selfish hypocrite.”
you find one acceptable and the other not based solely on your personal feelings.
Correct. Because after you whisper someone directly it is now on a personal level. It's not on a personal level if you just post in group chat what you're looking for. Now you are asking one specific person for their stuff to make a decision right now on whether or not they want it. In one situation, whether or not you get the piece you want is dependent on whether or not it drops for you or someone offers it up, in the other situation, the outcome may be the same, but you're putting that squarely on the shoulders of one person. You're making sure that they know they have what you need and if they don't give to you, you gotta run this again. It's intrusive, rude and annoying. You can call me a selfish hypocrite if you want to but there are a lot of people who feel the same way about begging for gear. That's what it is btw- begging. In most situations it's frowned upon.
Edited by nickl413 on December 8, 2019 7:56PM3 -
Runefang✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I’m personally glad the add on exists. I forget to link gear I don’t want sometimes so if somebody asks for it I’ll happily give it away.6 -
LoneStar2911✭✭✭✭✭I’m personally glad the add on exists. I forget to link gear I don’t want sometimes so if somebody asks for it I’ll happily give it away.
We need more players like you. You're lovely.
@Runefang for MVP!
And to the others... simply asking a question is NOT "begging".(PC-NA) @LoneStar29114 -
nickl413✭✭✭✭
I mean, if you go to zone and ask for 10k to buy a horse, you get blasted. Why is this different?0
