New Game Mode: Labyrinth Trials

WeerW3ir

It has potential.

Indoril_Nerevar wrote: »

WeerW3ir wrote: »

Guyle wrote: »

Maze in a video game doesn't sound like fun, just tedious. However, I usually forget which way we are supposed to go in dungeons that have non-linear paths, so maybe thats just me lol. Traps and distractions just sound like hurry up and wait, hurry up and wait. Puzzles and riddles, well, I mean look at the ones they already have in game in quests, they aren't exactly hard, though sometimes make no sense, and just feel like an artificial way of making stuff take longer to me. Also, it would have very little replay value, unless the rewards were worth it.

Have you ever tried to get the Outbreak Perfected in Destiny 2?

Lol my fault for making it a poll.


Please provide details I have not

After a hard fight you must do a long jumping part where if you fail you die. If you manage it. You reach a maze where there are 4 button to activate the victory lift. Sounds easy enough no? Well
No. Because a giant ripper wall is roaming in the maze. If its catches you. You fail and die. If you manage it. You have to do another jumping maze and then a fight with the endboss. All this under 20 minute. If times up. The place kicks you out.

Hallothiel

Yes. Great idea.

Excellent idea. Making dungeons & trials more than just a dps race!!

And the grapple hook can be added into the Labyrinth instance, as it is in the Prologue & Dragonhold quests. Is in game so can surely just be triggered by having the posts?

IndianaJames7

Hmmm not sure how to vote on this one. I love the idea and think that a well designed labyrinth like what you have outlined would be a lot of fun.

Unfortunately I don’t think this would work or would be a very realistic thing for devs to spend their time on. The issue with mazes/labyrinths is that the replayability wouldn’t be there because once you have learned how to get out the mystery is gone the second time around.

It doesn’t seem to be very efficient to me for ZOS to spend a lot of resources on something that players will only enjoy once (if the main draw is is the puzzle of escaping), whereas trials/ dungeons you can continue to replay and enjoy.

However, I think this would make for an excellent free-for-all battleground map. Keep the mobs, grapple posts, and patrolling Mini bosses, but make it large pvp zone where there are 8-12 players all spawning in different spots. That would be something I could see myself playing over and over again if done right.

Maggi12

Yes. Great idea.

such game mode would require special engine, which generates random maps from predefined patterns. It is too complicated. Static maps will be studied by players and thus lose their difficulty.
Timed riddles may help a lot in case of static maps. Combinatory tasks (finding a proper combination of slowly pressing stone buttons). Wait, do you remember March of sacrifices DLC dungeon?

MisterBigglesworth

Yes. Great idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSi2PkiLQLY

starkerealm

I do not like this idea.

WeerW3ir wrote: »

Indoril_Nerevar wrote: »

WeerW3ir wrote: »

Guyle wrote: »

Maze in a video game doesn't sound like fun, just tedious. However, I usually forget which way we are supposed to go in dungeons that have non-linear paths, so maybe thats just me lol. Traps and distractions just sound like hurry up and wait, hurry up and wait. Puzzles and riddles, well, I mean look at the ones they already have in game in quests, they aren't exactly hard, though sometimes make no sense, and just feel like an artificial way of making stuff take longer to me. Also, it would have very little replay value, unless the rewards were worth it.

Have you ever tried to get the Outbreak Perfected in Destiny 2?

Lol my fault for making it a poll.


Please provide details I have not

After a hard fight you must do a long jumping part where if you fail you die. If you manage it. You reach a maze where there are 4 button to activate the victory lift. Sounds easy enough no? Well
No. Because a giant ripper wall is roaming in the maze. If its catches you. You fail and die. If you manage it. You have to do another jumping maze and then a fight with the endboss. All this under 20 minute. If times up. The place kicks you out.

Then you have to do it another five times on Heroic, finding secret chests as you go, to complete the catalyst.

Ugh.

I got the gun on my hunter, but holy snot is that a brutal mission.

And this is in a game that has reasonably good platforming for an FPS.

You want a better comparison, look at The Cost of Magic from The Secret World. Like ESO, TSW was, in fact, a fully fledged MMO. Oh god, that mission was a pain in the ass.

starkerealm

I do not like this idea.

Number_51 wrote: »

Even before battlegrounds were a thing I'd always hoped for 4v4v4 race/objective oriented play in a large dungeon/delve setting.

Since we're on a Destiny 2 kick in this thread, I'll just toss this one out again: Gambit is one of the most interesting PvP modes I've ever seen. It's competitive PvE, two teams are working to summon and take down a boss, but at various thresholds invasion portals come up, allowing one team member to invade the other team's map to interfere with their progress.

Number_51 wrote: »

In 2017 I was hoping they would just drop Battlespire, wholesale, into the game with almost no rewrite. It had co-op and pvp. New graphics, update to allow more players (even 4v4v4), make chronological and quest corrections. Could possibly even be the same quest with minor changes.

Worth remembering that Battlespire ran on the same engine as Daggerfall. So, you'd need to create everything from scratch. Which is, just as well, because Battlespire is back from the era when the games featured nudity.

Guyle

I do not like this idea.

Indoril_Nerevar wrote: »

ZOS_FelipeF wrote: »

We've removed some posts from this thread to remove flaming/baiting posts and to keep the conversation on topic. Please keep the discussion civil and constructive.

Wat the hexk really lol I missed it. Thank you. Guys. Just tell me what can be better, but if you dislike it give me a no and perhaps why

They removed some of the more colorful phrases you used in your posts, and by extension, where I quoted the names you started calling ppl.

peacenote

I do not like this idea.

This is just not for me.

I have a bad sense of direction in game and out of it. For years I refused to tank not because of the attention on the role, but because I was nervous about having other people follow me through dungeons and trials and poking fun if I got lost. I get stressed in the dungeon with the boss that requires you to navigate through a tiny maze, sometimes, to kill spriggans depending on where they spawn (I forget what the boss is called). This feels somewhat like the sacraments and heists, both of which I don't really like because I am so bad at them. I get frustrated with surveys or quests that require me to navigate multiple levels (up mountains or beneath) where it's not obvious and I can't follow the map to figure out where I'm supposed to go. I could go on but you get the idea. :P

I would participate in something like this ONLY if there was no risk, ever, for me to be separated from the group and even then I'd only really be doing it to obtain any achievements/gear/etc. that the game mode provided, and/or to not be left out when a group of friends really wanted to do something. But even then I wouldn't really enjoy it, I'd just be there.

TheValkyn

Yes. Great idea.

A procedurally generated maze would be awesome. Require actual mechanics that dps doesn't cure.

kargen27

I'm not sure there would be enough bang for the buck. My concern is the same as others. Once you figure it out it loses most its appeal. Puzzles for groups also bother me a bit. One person in the group figuring out the puzzle ahead of others can ruin the experience there. So anything including a puzzle needs to be solo.

Someone mentioned jump puzzles and mazes in homes. Those can be fun but the players that create those (in my experience) change them up often to keep people coming back. Not sure the time it would take to put that out in the open world would be worth the time and resources needed.

I did really enjoy playing games like The Incredible Machine but when I feel like playing something like that I can hop out of ESO.

Indoril_Nerevar

It has potential.

kargen27 wrote: »

I'm not sure there would be enough bang for the buck. My concern is the same as others. Once you figure it out it loses most its appeal. Puzzles for groups also bother me a bit. One person in the group figuring out the puzzle ahead of others can ruin the experience there. So anything including a puzzle needs to be solo.

Someone mentioned jump puzzles and mazes in homes. Those can be fun but the players that create those (in my experience) change them up often to keep people coming back. Not sure the time it would take to put that out in the open world would be worth the time and resources needed.

I did really enjoy playing games like The Incredible Machine but when I feel like playing something like that I can hop out of ESO.

Indoril_Nerevar

It has potential.

TheValkyn wrote: »

A procedurally generated maze would be awesome. Require actual mechanics that dps doesn't cure.

svartorn

It has potential.

It could be a good idea if implemented correctly.

I'd really rather ZOS get their game working first.

cheifsoap

I do not like this idea.

I would be happy if they just fixed the game and put a little more effort in to quality.

CynicK

Well after some runs you will know the way but the first time it can be amazing.

thorwyn

Riddles in games are boring. Now, dont get me wrong, I love riddles in all kinds and forms. The problem is, that riddles are 1 or 0 thing.
You are either able to figure out the solution, or you are not. There is no in-between. And either way, you are stuck for a certain ammount of time.
Labyrinths are similar. You either go the Right hand at the wall, or -if the labyrinth is 3 dimensional, you are forced to do some trial error walks and finally grab a piece of paper and start drafting the map...old skool like Dungeon Master on Amiga back in 1996.
The idea of an old fashioned dungeon crawler mode is nice and cute, but it's too retro for ESO I think.

tinythinker

The closest equivalent I am familiar with in an actual MMORPG are the deep dungeons of FFXIV (which so far include Palace of the Dead and Heaven on High). Only partly mazelike but it is procedurally generated and does have traps as you try to go through dozens and dozens of levels. They have a place in the game for trying out new jobs, leveling jobs quickly in an gear agnostic environment, or going after particular achievements or a unique weapon glamor.

If some labyrinth was introduced in ESO, it would have to be clearly defined in terms of game-play experience.

For example, is it supposed to be multiplayer competitive? That would mean you would need to wait for a queue to fill and then be chasing people to get the lead. There would need to be multiple ways to get through the maze and lots of dead ends or tricks and each queue would need to produce an engaging procedurally generated map, which means lots of coding to make sure there were no duds. More than four people would probably be too frustrating.

If it's an individual experience, are you competing against yourself? Otherwise people would figure out the daily or weekly random configuration, so it would need to be something you could queue for over and over and run solo to get the best result.

Could it be cooperative as per the deep dungeons mentioned above? Or perhaps three teams of two or two teams of four competing against each? Could it just be one team with no competition just focusing survival or speed and making it from one level to the next? Like a procedurally generated mini-arena type of thing (a unique ESO spin on/improvement on FFXIV's deep dungeons?)

And then there is the pace itself. It is like a multiplayer Thieves Guild heist or Dark Brotherhood sacrament where there are obstacles that can slow you down or cost you points? Is it a race? If so then the generator would need to make high risk but faster pathways and lower risk but slower pathways.

And what about the lore/reason for these things? The theme of the art and general design of the settings?

How long do they last? What is the built in replay value (obstacles, rewards, flow of play)?

It looks like a lot of coding in any event. I wouldn't endorse the idea of a generic "labyrinth". Depending on specific ideas or more focused concepts there may be something to evaluate.

Beyond the labyrinth...

While no a shifting maze, there are two types of content I'd love to see that I am reminded of by this thread. I may edit in links to the relevant threads later, but can briefly give a slight sense of them here.

PvP Trials: Basically, like a normal trial except there are three teams. Each trial's layout is fixed (no procedural generation), but each team starts in a different place (where each Alliance starts could be random). There are shorter and faster routes with mobs and mini-bosses, and many places where different routes connect allowing for conflict as different teams run into each other. This includes places to set up ambushes if that is your strategy and you get there first. Kind of like Imperials sewers in some ways.

Scoring counts for speed, mini-bosses, deaths (you take points from the another team with a kill), and so on. In some trials there may be a final boss with different platforms and your team's percentage of the kill counts toward overall score. In some trials there may just be an object you have to get to and claim first (yet claiming takes time as someone on your team must interact for so long with it uninterrupted). In some trials there may be items you can collect along the way to boost your score, or in other trials the objects collected are key to the score prior to a timer finishing a countdown.

Being 8v8v8 or 12v12v12, such trials a larger and more engaging format than the 4v4v4 battlegrounds but smaller than Cyrodiil or Imperial City. Teams can choose strategies of which objectives to focus and tactics such as sticking together or sometimes splitting up temporarily to cover more ground. The idea of something sort of "mazelike" with traps, etc., or features you could use against other players is what came to mind when I saw this thread and why I recalled the PvP Trials concept.

PvE Nightmares: The lore here is rooted in Vaermina, Daedric Prince of Dreams and Nightmares. From a player experience perspective, it's a way to revisit old (mini-)bosses and meet some new ones. It's also a new type of instanced game challenge mode. The premise is that a small group of players get sucked into a pocket of Quagmire to face a nightmare version of a new or old (mini-)boss. The players have to defeat the boss to leave Quagmore and return to Tamriel, with Vaermina threatening that they will never truly be free and that she will claim then in the end.

The space this mode occupies in terms of size and duration is between a World Boss and a Group Dungeon, with experience akin to fighting a single really tough Trial boss or a randomized experience with a group Arena level. Group size is 1-3 players and you can use the unlocked portal on whichever map it ends up on or the activity finder to enter (with the first time going in being at the end of a short quest or brief quest chain). If you've thwarted Vaermina before from an overland quest the intro quest dialogue will reflect that.

The environment, theme, and setting are key to the experience. There are several basic settings (i.e. locations with different structures, etc.) that the game chooses from randomly. The same with the environment, which could have an ice theme, poison theme, fire theme, etc. Ditto for theme, which guides what players need to do (collect items during fight, activate devices, destroy objects with combat damage, etc.). Maybe mobs in a particular setting try to steal things, or have key drops. And so on.

The environment, theme and setting interact to guide what players need to do while fighting the boss (and any mobs) as well as provide challenges to doing so. In an ice theme, players may risk getting snared (or use frost somehow to snare or immobilize mobs), in a fire theme interacting over time to activate a device may cause increasing continuous fire damage. The bosses abilities can also shift to match the theme, regardless of how the original version of said boss did damage (for example a nightmare version of the Maw of the Infernal might do ice, poison, or disease damage).

The fourth major element is the boss. These can be favorite quest bosses, world bosses, or dungeon bosses from existing content, which is nice from a development perspective since it is a recycling of existing resources. And while some combinations of these four random elements may seem incongruous that isn't a problem because it is, after all, a living nightmare.

Because there is (confined) procedural generation, randomly selected environment, theme, setting, and boss provide a wide variety of experiences. The best way to beat an amped up Doshia (with increased mechanics as befitting this type of content) in setting A, theme 2, and environment gamma may not work for setting B, theme 4, and environment beta. And it is this procedurally generated aspect of this game mode that I was reminded of by this thread.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO

It has potential.

so imagine getting a gamechanging tool like the grappling hook...and u only have to use it 3 times thorough out the entire game...and 1 more time for 1 achievement.