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Patch 5.2.5 PvP Tierlist
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Luede✭✭✭✭✭nosecookie wrote: »
Incap is dead because the skill makes noise like a train passing by.every idiot can roll dodge, before this skill will hit u. cant remember the last time someone hits me with an incap.0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭nosecookie wrote: »
Incap is dead because the skill makes noise like a train passing by.every idiot can roll dodge, before this skill will hit u. cant remember the last time someone hits me with an incap.
Not sure i agree completely from a 1v1 perspective (with no time constraints on the kill).
You can just cancel it after baiting 1 or 2 dodgerolls of the soundcue (if your opponent plays against that) and land it afterwards.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
ThePhantomThorn✭✭✭✭nosecookie wrote: »
Incap is dead because the skill makes noise like a train passing by.every idiot can roll dodge, before this skill will hit u. cant remember the last time someone hits me with an incap.
use of balance heavy stun. guarantees hit0 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭If you’re talking about burst of classes, no one can compete with magsorc. There’s no guarantee that things will line up, but a Wrath + Curse + Frag proc lined up on the same GCD will be double what a NB can do.
Templar and Stamplar is pretty good too, but sorc’s higher.
There’s a reason classes like Magblades gravitate to proc sets for burst, because tooltips while useful for comparison completely miss the picture.Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten3 -
SenpaiNFT✭✭✭✭If you’re talking about burst of classes, no one can compete with magsorc. There’s no guarantee that things will line up, but a Wrath + Curse + Frag proc lined up on the same GCD will be double what a NB can do.
Templar and Stamplar is pretty good too, but sorc’s higher.
There’s a reason classes like Magblades gravitate to proc sets for burst, because tooltips while useful for comparison completely miss the picture.
Meteor + Fear + Bow damage hits in the same GCD FYI and is undodgeable and unblockable.Edited by SenpaiNFT on October 29, 2019 2:50PM1 -
Luede✭✭✭✭✭ThePhantomThorn wrote: »nosecookie wrote: »
Incap is dead because the skill makes noise like a train passing by.every idiot can roll dodge, before this skill will hit u. cant remember the last time someone hits me with an incap.
use of balance heavy stun. guarantees hit
incap is a waste of an ult, if the enemy is on immunity timer. if u wanne Cc the enemy first u should use the other morph from a non cp perspektive0 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭If you’re talking about burst of classes, no one can compete with magsorc. There’s no guarantee that things will line up, but a Wrath + Curse + Frag proc lined up on the same GCD will be double what a NB can do.
Templar and Stamplar is pretty good too, but sorc’s higher.
There’s a reason classes like Magblades gravitate to proc sets for burst, because tooltips while useful for comparison completely miss the picture.
Meteor + Fear + Bow damage hits in the same GCD FYI and is undodgeable and unblockable.
Almost, that’s two GCDs. If you go two GCDs you can line up more damage as well with other classes, for example Curse + Frags hard casted + Wrath + Frag Proc + Meteor or Overload LAs for theoretically more as well, you just need to get lucky with the frag proc.
Cast time attacks are great because the damage is at the end of the GCD and instants are at the start.Edited by Iskiab on October 29, 2019 3:06PMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten1 -
SenpaiNFT✭✭✭✭If you’re talking about burst of classes, no one can compete with magsorc. There’s no guarantee that things will line up, but a Wrath + Curse + Frag proc lined up on the same GCD will be double what a NB can do.
Templar and Stamplar is pretty good too, but sorc’s higher.
There’s a reason classes like Magblades gravitate to proc sets for burst, because tooltips while useful for comparison completely miss the picture.
Meteor + Fear + Bow damage hits in the same GCD FYI and is undodgeable and unblockable.
Almost, that’s two GCDs. If you go two GCDs you can line up more damage as well with other classes, for example Curse + Frags hard casted + Wrath + Frag Proc + Meteor or Overload LAs for theoretically more as well, you just need to get lucky with the frag proc.
Cast time attacks are great because the damage is at the end of the GCD and instants are at the start.
No, it’s not 2 GCDs, because of the travel time the meteor and bow hit in the same GCD. The same way you use curse ahead of time and it hits after 3 seconds. And it’s undodgeable/unblockable burst, some of the strongest in the game.
I’m not sure what point is even trying to be made though, Sorc has the strongest burst in the same GCD? Sure, that’s true, what relevance does it have though outside of 1v1? I’m just joining this conversation.Edited by SenpaiNFT on October 29, 2019 3:18PM0 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭If you’re talking about burst of classes, no one can compete with magsorc. There’s no guarantee that things will line up, but a Wrath + Curse + Frag proc lined up on the same GCD will be double what a NB can do.
Templar and Stamplar is pretty good too, but sorc’s higher.
There’s a reason classes like Magblades gravitate to proc sets for burst, because tooltips while useful for comparison completely miss the picture.
Meteor + Fear + Bow damage hits in the same GCD FYI and is undodgeable and unblockable.
Almost, that’s two GCDs. If you go two GCDs you can line up more damage as well with other classes, for example Curse + Frags hard casted + Wrath + Frag Proc + Meteor or Overload LAs for theoretically more as well, you just need to get lucky with the frag proc.
Cast time attacks are great because the damage is at the end of the GCD and instants are at the start.
And Wrath only procs if you're below 20%. What makes you think Curse + Frag will get someone below 20%?Platform:
PC NA
Main:
Static Wave - AD stamsorc0 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Comparing burst damage must be done at full health, not where a preloaded execute can proc. A more suitable comparison is curse + frag vs spectral bowPlatform:
PC NA
Main:
Static Wave - AD stamsorc0 -
Rianai✭✭✭✭✭
✭If you’re talking about burst of classes, no one can compete with magsorc. There’s no guarantee that things will line up, but a Wrath + Curse + Frag proc lined up on the same GCD will be double what a NB can do.
Templar and Stamplar is pretty good too, but sorc’s higher.
There’s a reason classes like Magblades gravitate to proc sets for burst, because tooltips while useful for comparison completely miss the picture.
Meteor + Fear + Bow damage hits in the same GCD FYI and is undodgeable and unblockable.
Almost, that’s two GCDs. If you go two GCDs you can line up more damage as well with other classes, for example Curse + Frags hard casted + Wrath + Frag Proc + Meteor or Overload LAs for theoretically more as well, you just need to get lucky with the frag proc.
Cast time attacks are great because the damage is at the end of the GCD and instants are at the start.
No, it’s not 2 GCDs, because of the travel time the meteor and bow hit in the same GCD. The same way you use curse ahead of time and it hits after 3 seconds. And it’s undodgeable/unblockable burst, some of the strongest in the game.
I’m not sure what point is even trying to be made though, Sorc has the strongest burst in the same GCD? Sure, that’s true, what relevance does it have though outside of 1v1? I’m just joining this conversation.
It is possible to land meteor and the bow proc at the same time, yes. But it is not possible to guarantee the whole combo, because if you use fear a gcd before the ult lands, it is possible to break free and block in time. If you use fear right before the meteor hits, you can't immediately follow up with merciless. Ideally you fear about half a gcd before the impact of the meteor and cast merciless shortly after, to at least get an unblocked ult - the bow might land, depending on how fast the enemy breaks the cc. But it is very difficult to time it perfectly. Works best against not so good players or when it is lagging (often don't even need to fear in those situations
).
Ofc just comparing tooltips/burst combos in a vacuum tells nothing about how good or bad a class is overall, so it's not very relevant for the topic of this thread.Edited by Rianai on October 29, 2019 5:28PM1 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭If you’re talking about burst of classes, no one can compete with magsorc. There’s no guarantee that things will line up, but a Wrath + Curse + Frag proc lined up on the same GCD will be double what a NB can do.
Templar and Stamplar is pretty good too, but sorc’s higher.
There’s a reason classes like Magblades gravitate to proc sets for burst, because tooltips while useful for comparison completely miss the picture.
Meteor + Fear + Bow damage hits in the same GCD FYI and is undodgeable and unblockable.
Almost, that’s two GCDs. If you go two GCDs you can line up more damage as well with other classes, for example Curse + Frags hard casted + Wrath + Frag Proc + Meteor or Overload LAs for theoretically more as well, you just need to get lucky with the frag proc.
Cast time attacks are great because the damage is at the end of the GCD and instants are at the start.
No, it’s not 2 GCDs, because of the travel time the meteor and bow hit in the same GCD. The same way you use curse ahead of time and it hits after 3 seconds. And it’s undodgeable/unblockable burst, some of the strongest in the game.
I’m not sure what point is even trying to be made though, Sorc has the strongest burst in the same GCD? Sure, that’s true, what relevance does it have though outside of 1v1? I’m just joining this conversation.
It is possible to land meteor and the bow proc at the same time, yes. But it is not possible to guarantee the whole combo, because if you use fear a gcd before the ult lands, it is possible to break free and block in time. If you use fear right before the meteor hits, you can't immediately follow up with merciless. Ideally you fear about half a gcd before the impact of the meteor and cast merciless shortly after, to at least get an unblocked ult - the bow might land, depending on how fast the enemy breaks the cc. But it is very difficult to time it perfectly. Works best against not so good players or when it is lagging (often don't even need to fear in those situations).
Ofc just comparing tooltips/burst combos in a vacuum tells nothing about how good or bad a class is overall, so it's not very relevant for the topic of this thread.
Well it's not possible to guarantee that a curse + meteor + frag combo can simultanously hit, or do full damage against a good player most of the time either because they can block tap the meteor and dodge roll right after to avoid the frag, or just block both meteor + frag. If you use streak to guarantee curse + meteor will hit simultaneously, then you won't be able to land the frag at the same time.Platform:
PC NA
Main:
Static Wave - AD stamsorc1 -
Royalthought✭✭✭✭✭StaticWave wrote: »If you’re talking about burst of classes, no one can compete with magsorc. There’s no guarantee that things will line up, but a Wrath + Curse + Frag proc lined up on the same GCD will be double what a NB can do.
Templar and Stamplar is pretty good too, but sorc’s higher.
There’s a reason classes like Magblades gravitate to proc sets for burst, because tooltips while useful for comparison completely miss the picture.
Meteor + Fear + Bow damage hits in the same GCD FYI and is undodgeable and unblockable.
Almost, that’s two GCDs. If you go two GCDs you can line up more damage as well with other classes, for example Curse + Frags hard casted + Wrath + Frag Proc + Meteor or Overload LAs for theoretically more as well, you just need to get lucky with the frag proc.
Cast time attacks are great because the damage is at the end of the GCD and instants are at the start.
No, it’s not 2 GCDs, because of the travel time the meteor and bow hit in the same GCD. The same way you use curse ahead of time and it hits after 3 seconds. And it’s undodgeable/unblockable burst, some of the strongest in the game.
I’m not sure what point is even trying to be made though, Sorc has the strongest burst in the same GCD? Sure, that’s true, what relevance does it have though outside of 1v1? I’m just joining this conversation.
It is possible to land meteor and the bow proc at the same time, yes. But it is not possible to guarantee the whole combo, because if you use fear a gcd before the ult lands, it is possible to break free and block in time. If you use fear right before the meteor hits, you can't immediately follow up with merciless. Ideally you fear about half a gcd before the impact of the meteor and cast merciless shortly after, to at least get an unblocked ult - the bow might land, depending on how fast the enemy breaks the cc. But it is very difficult to time it perfectly. Works best against not so good players or when it is lagging (often don't even need to fear in those situations).
Ofc just comparing tooltips/burst combos in a vacuum tells nothing about how good or bad a class is overall, so it's not very relevant for the topic of this thread.
Well it's not possible to guarantee that a curse + meteor + frag combo can simultanously hit, or do full damage against a good player most of the time either because they can block tap the meteor and dodge roll right after to avoid the frag, or just block both meteor + frag. If you use streak to guarantee curse + meteor will hit simultaneously, then you won't be able to land the frag at the same time.
Not agreeing nor disagreeing. Just throwing it out there as a tip if any new players are viewing this.
Rune cage being a delayed unblockable stun combos we’ll with meteor. The sorc is free to land the frag + curse combo due to rune + meteor preventing block and dodge.0 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Royalthought wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »If you’re talking about burst of classes, no one can compete with magsorc. There’s no guarantee that things will line up, but a Wrath + Curse + Frag proc lined up on the same GCD will be double what a NB can do.
Templar and Stamplar is pretty good too, but sorc’s higher.
There’s a reason classes like Magblades gravitate to proc sets for burst, because tooltips while useful for comparison completely miss the picture.
Meteor + Fear + Bow damage hits in the same GCD FYI and is undodgeable and unblockable.
Almost, that’s two GCDs. If you go two GCDs you can line up more damage as well with other classes, for example Curse + Frags hard casted + Wrath + Frag Proc + Meteor or Overload LAs for theoretically more as well, you just need to get lucky with the frag proc.
Cast time attacks are great because the damage is at the end of the GCD and instants are at the start.
No, it’s not 2 GCDs, because of the travel time the meteor and bow hit in the same GCD. The same way you use curse ahead of time and it hits after 3 seconds. And it’s undodgeable/unblockable burst, some of the strongest in the game.
I’m not sure what point is even trying to be made though, Sorc has the strongest burst in the same GCD? Sure, that’s true, what relevance does it have though outside of 1v1? I’m just joining this conversation.
It is possible to land meteor and the bow proc at the same time, yes. But it is not possible to guarantee the whole combo, because if you use fear a gcd before the ult lands, it is possible to break free and block in time. If you use fear right before the meteor hits, you can't immediately follow up with merciless. Ideally you fear about half a gcd before the impact of the meteor and cast merciless shortly after, to at least get an unblocked ult - the bow might land, depending on how fast the enemy breaks the cc. But it is very difficult to time it perfectly. Works best against not so good players or when it is lagging (often don't even need to fear in those situations).
Ofc just comparing tooltips/burst combos in a vacuum tells nothing about how good or bad a class is overall, so it's not very relevant for the topic of this thread.
Well it's not possible to guarantee that a curse + meteor + frag combo can simultanously hit, or do full damage against a good player most of the time either because they can block tap the meteor and dodge roll right after to avoid the frag, or just block both meteor + frag. If you use streak to guarantee curse + meteor will hit simultaneously, then you won't be able to land the frag at the same time.
Not agreeing nor disagreeing. Just throwing it out there as a tip if any new players are viewing this.
Rune cage being a delayed unblockable stun combos we’ll with meteor. The sorc is free to land the frag + curse combo due to rune + meteor preventing block and dodge.
Rune cage does combo well with meteor. But you can dodge the rune cage AND block the meteor as you exit dodge roll. It requires good reaction to pull it off though.Platform:
PC NA
Main:
Static Wave - AD stamsorc2 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Someone was making an argument that Stamblades have great burst because they can cloak into onslaught so get the highest tooltip.
Just mentioning ways other classes can obtain higher burst on the same GCD, not saying there aren’t counters to different abilities.
My point was if you’re looking at the theoretical burst across classes, cloaking into an ultimate doesn’t mean much if you’re thinking burst is based on tooltips. What’s much more important is how abilities can be put together.Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten3 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Royalthought wrote: »Luckylancer wrote: »Interesting list. Why stamdk is so low? He feels better generaly. Maybe 1 tier better. And how can stamden be S in solo? How can they kill someone better than others with last nerfs to stamden's best build? What is his superior kite options againts others?
Stamsorc so low, no wonders. They dont bring anything to group play and they are average at solo.
Stamdk lacks a reliable way of dealing with ranged attacks, wings don't count here as they come at the cost of survivability against other specs or offence as barspace is somewhat an issue.
Stamdk got it's rating mainly from a 1vX point of vier as it can give most classes a tough fight in 1v1s.
But in 1vX you lack the mobility to kite and thus run into situations where you can only tank but fail to kill people.
For an A tier spec they would have to have a good option of dealing with zergs or bring something outstanding with them which them.
Doesn’t this contradict Stamblade being in the top tier for solo builds? I mean, a stamblade has zero chance of taking out multiple players but they’re top tier because they can run away with cloak? Seems like Stamblade is being held to a different standard with the only answer being ‘because cloak’.
In general most rankings are fine, but Stamblade being too high and Stamplar too low stand out the most as ‘WTFs’. DK a little low too.
No, they are top tier because they are very mobile and they can kite/handle multiple opponents at once and take them out one by one. They are not held on a different standard. They were always top tier for solo open world and will always be there because of how the class is designed.
Saying that, “they are” isn’t really accomplishing anything. Examples and details are best.
They have shade, cloak and single target attacks. None of which lends itself well to defeating groups which is why it’s one of the weaker classes for high end bg/group play; just escaping them. That’s in addition to the fact that coordinated groups utilize tons of AoE resulting in cloak being of little use. They're forced into solo situations due to lacking in groups. (Plus all classes can invis pot and undo to similar effect)
And if we are basing, solo off of 1 facing groups than it really is a red flag to the list. Kiting groups and fighting 1 at a time is 1vX’ing bad groups that separate and overextend. Which would be a different standard tbh. Nightblades are not “S” vs coordinated groups. Meanwhile there are classes that can kill multiple targets simultaneously. The solo category seems to be mostly about exiting fight.
I said solo open world, not group play. Stick to the topic. They are not top tier in group play. You can literally see that in the rankings. Please read before you respond.
And yes NBs are not S tier vs coordinated groups. No class can handle coordinated groups. The criteria for solo play are prety clear. Ability to self sustain, stay alive, kiting and fighting multiple people of lower skill level than you because you are not going to 1vX people of equal skill level no matter which class you are playing. The two classes which have always stood on top in solo play despite the nerfs, are stamblades and mag sorcs because of how well they are designed for solo play. They just fit those criteria perfectly.
Saying that stamblades are not S tier in solo play because they are not good in groups and because they cant kill coordinated groups is just a strawman argument. You are literally putting ur own criteria with the sole purpose of saying that stamblades arent good.
My point is if Stamblades were good against multiple opponents you’d see it in BGs. Every NB I’ve seen or spoken with chooses targets based off their health and tankiness and gives up if they think it’ll be a challenge or a fight they won’t win.
There’s a huge difference between multiple people being in the vacinity and picking off one soft target and taking on multiple targets 1vX. If Stamblades were truly good against multiple opponents it would come across in BGs, but they aren’t, so it doesn’t. Saying they’re good at their niche is one thing. Saying they’re good in general against multiple people is nonsense.
You also assume I’m a stamblade, I am not, and have no clue where I play on PC-NA. You’re just guessing and assuming arrogance will deter people from dissenting, because you think you’re talking from a position of knowledge of being in the know, when actually you’re just parroting others and demonstrating the inability to reframe the strengths of classes with changes to the game.
I’ve seen the type a lot before, until someone tells you things have changed who’s a better player than you and you probably kiss their butt you won’t believe it.
As for BGs, well I’m PC-NA so have no idea who those names are or their skill levels. On PC-NA you would never see a stamblade do that well in higher MMR, only low or beginner tiers including the best Stamblades on PC-NA.
What the hell does solo play have to do with BGs? You are either grasping at straws with the sole purpose of trying to make stamblade look bad or you literally cant tell what solo, small scale, large fights are. Dunno which one is worse. In any case. BGs are not solo play. And the reason why stamblades arent considered good in high MMR matches its exactly that, because they are not freaking solo play. They are organised group fights and in those fights stamblades arent actually that good which is literally shown in the freaking rankings you are complaining about in the first place.
Yes there is a huge difference between going on against multiple organised opponents of equal skill level with you and multiple unorganised players of generally lower skill level than yours. In 1vX fights you will fight mostly fight with the latter. And when people talk about a class being good against multiple opponents they mean exactly that. Its capabilities in 1vX fights. Thats not nonsense. The only thing that is nonsense is saying that a class isnt good against multiple opponents because they cant 1vX multiple organised opponents. No class can do that.
I dont anyone to tell me that stamblades are top tier in solo play. Ive actually been repeating that stamblades and mag sorcs are top tier in solo and will always be for years. But dont worry im not gonna go through the trouble of finding posts from years ago to save you the embarrassment.
I dont assume anything. I just replied to ur post, you didnt like it and thought it would be a good idea to turn it into a personal attack, call me arrogant and that i dont know anything about the game unless people tell me. What a failure. Better luck next time.
But whatever, not that i expected anything more from someone pretending to be an expert on a class that he didnt even play to lvl 50.4 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Royalthought wrote: »Luckylancer wrote: »Interesting list. Why stamdk is so low? He feels better generaly. Maybe 1 tier better. And how can stamden be S in solo? How can they kill someone better than others with last nerfs to stamden's best build? What is his superior kite options againts others?
Stamsorc so low, no wonders. They dont bring anything to group play and they are average at solo.
Stamdk lacks a reliable way of dealing with ranged attacks, wings don't count here as they come at the cost of survivability against other specs or offence as barspace is somewhat an issue.
Stamdk got it's rating mainly from a 1vX point of vier as it can give most classes a tough fight in 1v1s.
But in 1vX you lack the mobility to kite and thus run into situations where you can only tank but fail to kill people.
For an A tier spec they would have to have a good option of dealing with zergs or bring something outstanding with them which them.
Doesn’t this contradict Stamblade being in the top tier for solo builds? I mean, a stamblade has zero chance of taking out multiple players but they’re top tier because they can run away with cloak? Seems like Stamblade is being held to a different standard with the only answer being ‘because cloak’.
In general most rankings are fine, but Stamblade being too high and Stamplar too low stand out the most as ‘WTFs’. DK a little low too.
No, they are top tier because they are very mobile and they can kite/handle multiple opponents at once and take them out one by one. They are not held on a different standard. They were always top tier for solo open world and will always be there because of how the class is designed.
Saying that, “they are” isn’t really accomplishing anything. Examples and details are best.
They have shade, cloak and single target attacks. None of which lends itself well to defeating groups which is why it’s one of the weaker classes for high end bg/group play; just escaping them. That’s in addition to the fact that coordinated groups utilize tons of AoE resulting in cloak being of little use. They're forced into solo situations due to lacking in groups. (Plus all classes can invis pot and undo to similar effect)
And if we are basing, solo off of 1 facing groups than it really is a red flag to the list. Kiting groups and fighting 1 at a time is 1vX’ing bad groups that separate and overextend. Which would be a different standard tbh. Nightblades are not “S” vs coordinated groups. Meanwhile there are classes that can kill multiple targets simultaneously. The solo category seems to be mostly about exiting fight.
I said solo open world, not group play. Stick to the topic. They are not top tier in group play. You can literally see that in the rankings. Please read before you respond.
And yes NBs are not S tier vs coordinated groups. No class can handle coordinated groups. The criteria for solo play are prety clear. Ability to self sustain, stay alive, kiting and fighting multiple people of lower skill level than you because you are not going to 1vX people of equal skill level no matter which class you are playing. The two classes which have always stood on top in solo play despite the nerfs, are stamblades and mag sorcs because of how well they are designed for solo play. They just fit those criteria perfectly.
Saying that stamblades are not S tier in solo play because they are not good in groups and because they cant kill coordinated groups is just a strawman argument. You are literally putting ur own criteria with the sole purpose of saying that stamblades arent good.
My point is if Stamblades were good against multiple opponents you’d see it in BGs. Every NB I’ve seen or spoken with chooses targets based off their health and tankiness and gives up if they think it’ll be a challenge or a fight they won’t win.
There’s a huge difference between multiple people being in the vacinity and picking off one soft target and taking on multiple targets 1vX. If Stamblades were truly good against multiple opponents it would come across in BGs, but they aren’t, so it doesn’t. Saying they’re good at their niche is one thing. Saying they’re good in general against multiple people is nonsense.
You also assume I’m a stamblade, I am not, and have no clue where I play on PC-NA. You’re just guessing and assuming arrogance will deter people from dissenting, because you think you’re talking from a position of knowledge of being in the know, when actually you’re just parroting others and demonstrating the inability to reframe the strengths of classes with changes to the game.
I’ve seen the type a lot before, until someone tells you things have changed who’s a better player than you and you probably kiss their butt you won’t believe it.
As for BGs, well I’m PC-NA so have no idea who those names are or their skill levels. On PC-NA you would never see a stamblade do that well in higher MMR, only low or beginner tiers including the best Stamblades on PC-NA.
What the hell does solo play have to do with BGs? You are either grasping at straws with the sole purpose of trying to make stamblade look bad or you literally cant tell what solo, small scale, large fights are. Dunno which one is worse. In any case. BGs are not solo play. And the reason why stamblades arent considered good in high MMR matches its exactly that, because they are not freaking solo play. They are organised group fights and in those fights stamblades arent actually that good which is literally shown in the freaking rankings you are complaining about in the first place.
Yes there is a huge difference between going on against multiple organised opponents of equal skill level with you and multiple unorganised players of generally lower skill level than yours. In 1vX fights you will fight mostly fight with the latter. And when people talk about a class being good against multiple opponents they mean exactly that. Its capabilities in 1vX fights. Thats not nonsense. The only thing that is nonsense is saying that a class isnt good against multiple opponents because they cant 1vX multiple organised opponents. No class can do that.
I dont anyone to tell me that stamblades are top tier in solo play. Ive actually been repeating that stamblades and mag sorcs are top tier in solo and will always be for years. But dont worry im not gonna go through the trouble of finding posts from years ago to save you the embarrassment.
I dont assume anything. I just replied to ur post, you didnt like it and thought it would be a good idea to turn it into a personal attack, call me arrogant and that i dont know anything about the game unless people tell me. What a failure. Better luck next time.
But whatever, not that i expected anything more from someone pretending to be an expert on a class that he didnt even play to lvl 50.
Simple point, you said some nonsense about Stamblades being able to take on multiple people at once. If they were strong enough to do that, they’d be strong enough to be good in battlegrounds.
Do most stamina classes have group support in BGs? No. Are they strong enough to do well in BGs? Yes.
BGs are different than solo play yes, but if as some claim they’re good vs multiple opponents you’d see it in pvp all the time. Instead you get people pointing to videos against potatoes or saying they can can choose easy fights, but that’s not strong, that’s choosing easier fights.
Plus yes, arrogance, answering that people aren’t experienced or don’t know what they’re talking about is the epitome of arrogance.Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Royalthought wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »Luckylancer wrote: »Interesting list. Why stamdk is so low? He feels better generaly. Maybe 1 tier better. And how can stamden be S in solo? How can they kill someone better than others with last nerfs to stamden's best build? What is his superior kite options againts others?
Stamsorc so low, no wonders. They dont bring anything to group play and they are average at solo.
Stamdk lacks a reliable way of dealing with ranged attacks, wings don't count here as they come at the cost of survivability against other specs or offence as barspace is somewhat an issue.
Stamdk got it's rating mainly from a 1vX point of vier as it can give most classes a tough fight in 1v1s.
But in 1vX you lack the mobility to kite and thus run into situations where you can only tank but fail to kill people.
For an A tier spec they would have to have a good option of dealing with zergs or bring something outstanding with them which them.
Doesn’t this contradict Stamblade being in the top tier for solo builds? I mean, a stamblade has zero chance of taking out multiple players but they’re top tier because they can run away with cloak? Seems like Stamblade is being held to a different standard with the only answer being ‘because cloak’.
In general most rankings are fine, but Stamblade being too high and Stamplar too low stand out the most as ‘WTFs’. DK a little low too.
No, they are top tier because they are very mobile and they can kite/handle multiple opponents at once and take them out one by one. They are not held on a different standard. They were always top tier for solo open world and will always be there because of how the class is designed.
Saying that, “they are” isn’t really accomplishing anything. Examples and details are best.
They have shade, cloak and single target attacks. None of which lends itself well to defeating groups which is why it’s one of the weaker classes for high end bg/group play; just escaping them. That’s in addition to the fact that coordinated groups utilize tons of AoE resulting in cloak being of little use. They're forced into solo situations due to lacking in groups. (Plus all classes can invis pot and undo to similar effect)
And if we are basing, solo off of 1 facing groups than it really is a red flag to the list. Kiting groups and fighting 1 at a time is 1vX’ing bad groups that separate and overextend. Which would be a different standard tbh. Nightblades are not “S” vs coordinated groups. Meanwhile there are classes that can kill multiple targets simultaneously. The solo category seems to be mostly about exiting fight.
I said solo open world, not group play. Stick to the topic. They are not top tier in group play. You can literally see that in the rankings. Please read before you respond.
And yes NBs are not S tier vs coordinated groups. No class can handle coordinated groups. The criteria for solo play are prety clear. Ability to self sustain, stay alive, kiting and fighting multiple people of lower skill level than you because you are not going to 1vX people of equal skill level no matter which class you are playing. The two classes which have always stood on top in solo play despite the nerfs, are stamblades and mag sorcs because of how well they are designed for solo play. They just fit those criteria perfectly.
Saying that stamblades are not S tier in solo play because they are not good in groups and because they cant kill coordinated groups is just a strawman argument. You are literally putting ur own criteria with the sole purpose of saying that stamblades arent good.
You:
“I said solo open world, not group play. Stick to the topic.”
”Saying that stamblades are not S tier in solo play because they are not good in groups and because they cant kill coordinated groups is just a strawman argument.”
Me:
“And if we are basing, solo off of 1 facing groups than it really is a red flag to the list. Kiting groups and fighting 1 at a time is 1vX’ing bad groups that separate and overextend. Which would be a different standard tbh.”
When you invent an argument just to have something to respond to it gets silly. Here’s your own advice.
“Please read before you respond.”
Also you in the same post : " Saying that, they are isn’t really accomplishing anything. Examples and details are best.
They have shade, cloak and single target attacks. None of which lends itself well to defeating groups which is why it’s one of the weaker classes for high end bg/group play; just escaping them. That’s in addition to the fact that coordinated groups utilize tons of AoE resulting in cloak being of little use. They're forced into solo situations due to lacking in groups. (Plus all classes can invis pot and undo to similar effect)
And if we are basing, solo off of 1 facing groups than it really is a red flag to the list. Kiting groups and fighting 1 at a time is 1vX’ing bad groups that separate and overextend. Which would be a different standard tbh. Nightblades are not “S” vs coordinated groups. Meanwhile there are classes that can kill multiple targets simultaneously. The solo category seems to be mostly about exiting fight. "
Dont have reading issues at all. I mean ur post is right there, you can clearly see that. You are just cherry picking sentences from ur post to make ur argument. But yeah whatever floats ur boat. On the actual topic tho, seems like you cant tell what solo play actually is or at least how its viewed on the rankings.0 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Royalthought wrote: »Luckylancer wrote: »Interesting list. Why stamdk is so low? He feels better generaly. Maybe 1 tier better. And how can stamden be S in solo? How can they kill someone better than others with last nerfs to stamden's best build? What is his superior kite options againts others?
Stamsorc so low, no wonders. They dont bring anything to group play and they are average at solo.
Stamdk lacks a reliable way of dealing with ranged attacks, wings don't count here as they come at the cost of survivability against other specs or offence as barspace is somewhat an issue.
Stamdk got it's rating mainly from a 1vX point of vier as it can give most classes a tough fight in 1v1s.
But in 1vX you lack the mobility to kite and thus run into situations where you can only tank but fail to kill people.
For an A tier spec they would have to have a good option of dealing with zergs or bring something outstanding with them which them.
Doesn’t this contradict Stamblade being in the top tier for solo builds? I mean, a stamblade has zero chance of taking out multiple players but they’re top tier because they can run away with cloak? Seems like Stamblade is being held to a different standard with the only answer being ‘because cloak’.
In general most rankings are fine, but Stamblade being too high and Stamplar too low stand out the most as ‘WTFs’. DK a little low too.
No, they are top tier because they are very mobile and they can kite/handle multiple opponents at once and take them out one by one. They are not held on a different standard. They were always top tier for solo open world and will always be there because of how the class is designed.
Saying that, “they are” isn’t really accomplishing anything. Examples and details are best.
They have shade, cloak and single target attacks. None of which lends itself well to defeating groups which is why it’s one of the weaker classes for high end bg/group play; just escaping them. That’s in addition to the fact that coordinated groups utilize tons of AoE resulting in cloak being of little use. They're forced into solo situations due to lacking in groups. (Plus all classes can invis pot and undo to similar effect)
And if we are basing, solo off of 1 facing groups than it really is a red flag to the list. Kiting groups and fighting 1 at a time is 1vX’ing bad groups that separate and overextend. Which would be a different standard tbh. Nightblades are not “S” vs coordinated groups. Meanwhile there are classes that can kill multiple targets simultaneously. The solo category seems to be mostly about exiting fight.
I said solo open world, not group play. Stick to the topic. They are not top tier in group play. You can literally see that in the rankings. Please read before you respond.
And yes NBs are not S tier vs coordinated groups. No class can handle coordinated groups. The criteria for solo play are prety clear. Ability to self sustain, stay alive, kiting and fighting multiple people of lower skill level than you because you are not going to 1vX people of equal skill level no matter which class you are playing. The two classes which have always stood on top in solo play despite the nerfs, are stamblades and mag sorcs because of how well they are designed for solo play. They just fit those criteria perfectly.
Saying that stamblades are not S tier in solo play because they are not good in groups and because they cant kill coordinated groups is just a strawman argument. You are literally putting ur own criteria with the sole purpose of saying that stamblades arent good.
My point is if Stamblades were good against multiple opponents you’d see it in BGs. Every NB I’ve seen or spoken with chooses targets based off their health and tankiness and gives up if they think it’ll be a challenge or a fight they won’t win.
There’s a huge difference between multiple people being in the vacinity and picking off one soft target and taking on multiple targets 1vX. If Stamblades were truly good against multiple opponents it would come across in BGs, but they aren’t, so it doesn’t. Saying they’re good at their niche is one thing. Saying they’re good in general against multiple people is nonsense.
You also assume I’m a stamblade, I am not, and have no clue where I play on PC-NA. You’re just guessing and assuming arrogance will deter people from dissenting, because you think you’re talking from a position of knowledge of being in the know, when actually you’re just parroting others and demonstrating the inability to reframe the strengths of classes with changes to the game.
I’ve seen the type a lot before, until someone tells you things have changed who’s a better player than you and you probably kiss their butt you won’t believe it.
As for BGs, well I’m PC-NA so have no idea who those names are or their skill levels. On PC-NA you would never see a stamblade do that well in higher MMR, only low or beginner tiers including the best Stamblades on PC-NA.
What the hell does solo play have to do with BGs? You are either grasping at straws with the sole purpose of trying to make stamblade look bad or you literally cant tell what solo, small scale, large fights are. Dunno which one is worse. In any case. BGs are not solo play. And the reason why stamblades arent considered good in high MMR matches its exactly that, because they are not freaking solo play. They are organised group fights and in those fights stamblades arent actually that good which is literally shown in the freaking rankings you are complaining about in the first place.
Yes there is a huge difference between going on against multiple organised opponents of equal skill level with you and multiple unorganised players of generally lower skill level than yours. In 1vX fights you will fight mostly fight with the latter. And when people talk about a class being good against multiple opponents they mean exactly that. Its capabilities in 1vX fights. Thats not nonsense. The only thing that is nonsense is saying that a class isnt good against multiple opponents because they cant 1vX multiple organised opponents. No class can do that.
I dont anyone to tell me that stamblades are top tier in solo play. Ive actually been repeating that stamblades and mag sorcs are top tier in solo and will always be for years. But dont worry im not gonna go through the trouble of finding posts from years ago to save you the embarrassment.
I dont assume anything. I just replied to ur post, you didnt like it and thought it would be a good idea to turn it into a personal attack, call me arrogant and that i dont know anything about the game unless people tell me. What a failure. Better luck next time.
But whatever, not that i expected anything more from someone pretending to be an expert on a class that he didnt even play to lvl 50.
Not sure why he made that argument. In Cyro you can sort of kite an unorganized group and single out the weaker players for the kill. You can't use that same trick against a more organized group though. This same principle applies to BGs, which was supposedly designed as a GvGvG environment. Obviously you can still do the same trick against a disorganized BG group, but against a premade you have next to zero chance. In fact, no class can pull of that trick against any organized premade group. A strawman argument indeedPlatform:
PC NA
Main:
Static Wave - AD stamsorc1 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Also please refrain from using personal attacks to keep this thread from being closedPlatform:
PC NA
Main:
Static Wave - AD stamsorc2 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Someone was making an argument that Stamblades have great burst because they can cloak into onslaught so get the highest tooltip.
Just mentioning ways other classes can obtain higher burst on the same GCD, not saying there aren’t counters to different abilities.
My point was if you’re looking at the theoretical burst across classes, cloaking into an ultimate doesn’t mean much if you’re thinking burst is based on tooltips. What’s much more important is how abilities can be put together.
Burst doesn't necessarily mean putting multiple abilities together. It just means doing a huge amount of damage in the shortest amount of time. "Burst damage is a term used to describe dealing high amounts of damage in a very short period of time."
You can achieve a big burst by combo-ing 3 abilities, or 2 abilities that do similar damage to the previous 3. It doesn't matter how many skills you can put together, but how much total damage you can do in the shortest amount of time.
Cloaking into an ultimate was needed to proc the passive that grants 10% bonus weapon damage by entering stealth. Another great combo that a NB can pull off in a single GCD is Heavy attack + Ultimate. With Off Balance, you can land an 8k heavy attack followed by a 14k onslaught easily. That's a burst combo, and it's equivalent to a magsorc with curse + frag + ultimate.Platform:
PC NA
Main:
Static Wave - AD stamsorc1 -
Royalthought✭✭✭✭✭Royalthought wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »Luckylancer wrote: »Interesting list. Why stamdk is so low? He feels better generaly. Maybe 1 tier better. And how can stamden be S in solo? How can they kill someone better than others with last nerfs to stamden's best build? What is his superior kite options againts others?
Stamsorc so low, no wonders. They dont bring anything to group play and they are average at solo.
Stamdk lacks a reliable way of dealing with ranged attacks, wings don't count here as they come at the cost of survivability against other specs or offence as barspace is somewhat an issue.
Stamdk got it's rating mainly from a 1vX point of vier as it can give most classes a tough fight in 1v1s.
But in 1vX you lack the mobility to kite and thus run into situations where you can only tank but fail to kill people.
For an A tier spec they would have to have a good option of dealing with zergs or bring something outstanding with them which them.
Doesn’t this contradict Stamblade being in the top tier for solo builds? I mean, a stamblade has zero chance of taking out multiple players but they’re top tier because they can run away with cloak? Seems like Stamblade is being held to a different standard with the only answer being ‘because cloak’.
In general most rankings are fine, but Stamblade being too high and Stamplar too low stand out the most as ‘WTFs’. DK a little low too.
No, they are top tier because they are very mobile and they can kite/handle multiple opponents at once and take them out one by one. They are not held on a different standard. They were always top tier for solo open world and will always be there because of how the class is designed.
Saying that, “they are” isn’t really accomplishing anything. Examples and details are best.
They have shade, cloak and single target attacks. None of which lends itself well to defeating groups which is why it’s one of the weaker classes for high end bg/group play; just escaping them. That’s in addition to the fact that coordinated groups utilize tons of AoE resulting in cloak being of little use. They're forced into solo situations due to lacking in groups. (Plus all classes can invis pot and undo to similar effect)
And if we are basing, solo off of 1 facing groups than it really is a red flag to the list. Kiting groups and fighting 1 at a time is 1vX’ing bad groups that separate and overextend. Which would be a different standard tbh. Nightblades are not “S” vs coordinated groups. Meanwhile there are classes that can kill multiple targets simultaneously. The solo category seems to be mostly about exiting fight.
I said solo open world, not group play. Stick to the topic. They are not top tier in group play. You can literally see that in the rankings. Please read before you respond.
And yes NBs are not S tier vs coordinated groups. No class can handle coordinated groups. The criteria for solo play are prety clear. Ability to self sustain, stay alive, kiting and fighting multiple people of lower skill level than you because you are not going to 1vX people of equal skill level no matter which class you are playing. The two classes which have always stood on top in solo play despite the nerfs, are stamblades and mag sorcs because of how well they are designed for solo play. They just fit those criteria perfectly.
Saying that stamblades are not S tier in solo play because they are not good in groups and because they cant kill coordinated groups is just a strawman argument. You are literally putting ur own criteria with the sole purpose of saying that stamblades arent good.
You:
“I said solo open world, not group play. Stick to the topic.”
”Saying that stamblades are not S tier in solo play because they are not good in groups and because they cant kill coordinated groups is just a strawman argument.”
Me:
“And if we are basing, solo off of 1 facing groups than it really is a red flag to the list. Kiting groups and fighting 1 at a time is 1vX’ing bad groups that separate and overextend. Which would be a different standard tbh.”
When you invent an argument just to have something to respond to it gets silly. Here’s your own advice.
“Please read before you respond.”
Also you in the same post : " Saying that, they are isn’t really accomplishing anything. Examples and details are best.
They have shade, cloak and single target attacks. None of which lends itself well to defeating groups which is why it’s one of the weaker classes for high end bg/group play; just escaping them. That’s in addition to the fact that coordinated groups utilize tons of AoE resulting in cloak being of little use. They're forced into solo situations due to lacking in groups. (Plus all classes can invis pot and undo to similar effect)
And if we are basing, solo off of 1 facing groups than it really is a red flag to the list. Kiting groups and fighting 1 at a time is 1vX’ing bad groups that separate and overextend. Which would be a different standard tbh. Nightblades are not “S” vs coordinated groups. Meanwhile there are classes that can kill multiple targets simultaneously. The solo category seems to be mostly about exiting fight. "
Dont have reading issues at all. I mean ur post is right there, you can clearly see that. You are just cherry picking sentences from ur post to make ur argument. But yeah whatever floats ur boat. On the actual topic tho, seems like you cant tell what solo play actually is or at least how its viewed on the rankings.
Bruh, you’ve lost context. Everything you’ve highlighted that I stated is true. What you falsely accused me of saying is this:
“Saying that stamblades are not S tier in solo play because they are not good in groups”
You catch that? “In groups.” Nothing you quoted, literally nowhere, did I ever claim nightblades aren’t S in solo because they aren’t good IN GROUPS!.
My take on solo was exclusively about facing groups. Solo nightblades vs groups. 1vX
So.. leave me out of YOUR argument. You’re responding to something YOU invented.
0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Royalthought wrote: »Luckylancer wrote: »Interesting list. Why stamdk is so low? He feels better generaly. Maybe 1 tier better. And how can stamden be S in solo? How can they kill someone better than others with last nerfs to stamden's best build? What is his superior kite options againts others?
Stamsorc so low, no wonders. They dont bring anything to group play and they are average at solo.
Stamdk lacks a reliable way of dealing with ranged attacks, wings don't count here as they come at the cost of survivability against other specs or offence as barspace is somewhat an issue.
Stamdk got it's rating mainly from a 1vX point of vier as it can give most classes a tough fight in 1v1s.
But in 1vX you lack the mobility to kite and thus run into situations where you can only tank but fail to kill people.
For an A tier spec they would have to have a good option of dealing with zergs or bring something outstanding with them which them.
Doesn’t this contradict Stamblade being in the top tier for solo builds? I mean, a stamblade has zero chance of taking out multiple players but they’re top tier because they can run away with cloak? Seems like Stamblade is being held to a different standard with the only answer being ‘because cloak’.
In general most rankings are fine, but Stamblade being too high and Stamplar too low stand out the most as ‘WTFs’. DK a little low too.
No, they are top tier because they are very mobile and they can kite/handle multiple opponents at once and take them out one by one. They are not held on a different standard. They were always top tier for solo open world and will always be there because of how the class is designed.
Saying that, “they are” isn’t really accomplishing anything. Examples and details are best.
They have shade, cloak and single target attacks. None of which lends itself well to defeating groups which is why it’s one of the weaker classes for high end bg/group play; just escaping them. That’s in addition to the fact that coordinated groups utilize tons of AoE resulting in cloak being of little use. They're forced into solo situations due to lacking in groups. (Plus all classes can invis pot and undo to similar effect)
And if we are basing, solo off of 1 facing groups than it really is a red flag to the list. Kiting groups and fighting 1 at a time is 1vX’ing bad groups that separate and overextend. Which would be a different standard tbh. Nightblades are not “S” vs coordinated groups. Meanwhile there are classes that can kill multiple targets simultaneously. The solo category seems to be mostly about exiting fight.
I said solo open world, not group play. Stick to the topic. They are not top tier in group play. You can literally see that in the rankings. Please read before you respond.
And yes NBs are not S tier vs coordinated groups. No class can handle coordinated groups. The criteria for solo play are prety clear. Ability to self sustain, stay alive, kiting and fighting multiple people of lower skill level than you because you are not going to 1vX people of equal skill level no matter which class you are playing. The two classes which have always stood on top in solo play despite the nerfs, are stamblades and mag sorcs because of how well they are designed for solo play. They just fit those criteria perfectly.
Saying that stamblades are not S tier in solo play because they are not good in groups and because they cant kill coordinated groups is just a strawman argument. You are literally putting ur own criteria with the sole purpose of saying that stamblades arent good.
My point is if Stamblades were good against multiple opponents you’d see it in BGs. Every NB I’ve seen or spoken with chooses targets based off their health and tankiness and gives up if they think it’ll be a challenge or a fight they won’t win.
There’s a huge difference between multiple people being in the vacinity and picking off one soft target and taking on multiple targets 1vX. If Stamblades were truly good against multiple opponents it would come across in BGs, but they aren’t, so it doesn’t. Saying they’re good at their niche is one thing. Saying they’re good in general against multiple people is nonsense.
You also assume I’m a stamblade, I am not, and have no clue where I play on PC-NA. You’re just guessing and assuming arrogance will deter people from dissenting, because you think you’re talking from a position of knowledge of being in the know, when actually you’re just parroting others and demonstrating the inability to reframe the strengths of classes with changes to the game.
I’ve seen the type a lot before, until someone tells you things have changed who’s a better player than you and you probably kiss their butt you won’t believe it.
As for BGs, well I’m PC-NA so have no idea who those names are or their skill levels. On PC-NA you would never see a stamblade do that well in higher MMR, only low or beginner tiers including the best Stamblades on PC-NA.
What the hell does solo play have to do with BGs? You are either grasping at straws with the sole purpose of trying to make stamblade look bad or you literally cant tell what solo, small scale, large fights are. Dunno which one is worse. In any case. BGs are not solo play. And the reason why stamblades arent considered good in high MMR matches its exactly that, because they are not freaking solo play. They are organised group fights and in those fights stamblades arent actually that good which is literally shown in the freaking rankings you are complaining about in the first place.
Yes there is a huge difference between going on against multiple organised opponents of equal skill level with you and multiple unorganised players of generally lower skill level than yours. In 1vX fights you will fight mostly fight with the latter. And when people talk about a class being good against multiple opponents they mean exactly that. Its capabilities in 1vX fights. Thats not nonsense. The only thing that is nonsense is saying that a class isnt good against multiple opponents because they cant 1vX multiple organised opponents. No class can do that.
I dont anyone to tell me that stamblades are top tier in solo play. Ive actually been repeating that stamblades and mag sorcs are top tier in solo and will always be for years. But dont worry im not gonna go through the trouble of finding posts from years ago to save you the embarrassment.
I dont assume anything. I just replied to ur post, you didnt like it and thought it would be a good idea to turn it into a personal attack, call me arrogant and that i dont know anything about the game unless people tell me. What a failure. Better luck next time.
But whatever, not that i expected anything more from someone pretending to be an expert on a class that he didnt even play to lvl 50.
Simple point, you said some nonsense about Stamblades being able to take on multiple people at once. If they were strong enough to do that, they’d be strong enough to be good in battlegrounds.
Do most stamina classes have group support in BGs? No. Are they strong enough to do well in BGs? Yes.
BGs are different than solo play yes, but if as some claim they’re good vs multiple opponents you’d see it in pvp all the time. Instead you get people pointing to videos against potatoes or saying they can can choose easy fights, but that’s not strong, that’s choosing easier fights.
Plus yes, arrogance, answering that people aren’t experienced or don’t know what they’re talking about is the epitome of arrogance.
For the last time. High end BGs are not solo fights. They are group fights and if you actually check the rankings stamblades are right there on the bottom behind everyone mag or stam. The reason why other specs are good in BGs is not because they can handle multiple opponents better than stamblades. No class can can fight against organised players of high skill level. Other specs are good in BGs because they have qualities which are actually useful in group fights. Something that stamblades have basically none which is exactly why they are on the bottom and why other classes are not. Its how the classes are designed. Its common sense. Dunno why is so hard to understand.
I get it, kiting people, self sustaining, being mobile, choosing fights and killing unorganised players of lower skill level means nothing to you, i get it. That doesnt mean that stamblades arent top tier at that. Just dont use that as ur criteria of judging the strength of classes. Thats why they made the different categories in the first place, because each class fares different depending on the content it is doing. Just dont look at the solo category. Look at the other two if that is how you prefer to judge the performance of classes.
Ummm, no i didnt tell you that you are not experienced and that you dont know what you are talking about. My posts are literally right there go back and see them. If you werent grasping at straws before you are definitely doing that now. I made normal posts trying to explain you why they are considered top tier in solo play. The insults are just a figment of ur imagination. Its actually you who insulted me, or actually tried to insult me cause they werent really insults. Seems like you are holding a grudge over a disagreement from a previous thread.
Edited by pieratsos on October 29, 2019 9:36PM3 -
ThePhantomThorn✭✭✭✭can we please stop just ranting about burst combos and nb vs sorc.
imean why...2 -
nosecookie✭✭✭@Iskiab Dude, if you would find a nightblade that can 1vx, (1vx-ing is basically taking on multiple bad opponents at once) you would most likely find them in high MMR BGs. Point is you can't take on multiple opponents at once in high MMR because everyone is just as good as you.
You can only see players in general that can take multiple opponents at once in lower MMR BGs when they are smurfing and their character hasn't progressed to a higher MMR yet where taking on multiple people doesn't become possible anymore. And smurfs you really do see rarely because in your MMR can really progress super fast in ESO if you're good.
But all I was just saying I said to inform you that there are vast differences between these gamemodes.
Maybe you'll get it now?1 -
Vlad9425✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NB is useful in Solo in the sense that you can kinda pick your fights and prioritize some targets but when you come up against a very experienced player on some min maxed build you will truly realize how Nerfed the NB class truly feels compared to some of the potential other classes bring to the table. Half of our kit which made NB an interesting class to even consider playing got ripped out of our kit some patches ago.4 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ThePhantomThorn wrote: »can we please stop just ranting about burst combos and nb vs sorc.
imean why...
Because apparently a few people believe that NB is trash and shouldn't be top tier in the Solo category. Then it degenerated into a Sorc vs NB thread and how either class can do the most burst damage.Platform:
PC NA
Main:
Static Wave - AD stamsorc1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Royalthought wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »Luckylancer wrote: »Interesting list. Why stamdk is so low? He feels better generaly. Maybe 1 tier better. And how can stamden be S in solo? How can they kill someone better than others with last nerfs to stamden's best build? What is his superior kite options againts others?
Stamsorc so low, no wonders. They dont bring anything to group play and they are average at solo.
Stamdk lacks a reliable way of dealing with ranged attacks, wings don't count here as they come at the cost of survivability against other specs or offence as barspace is somewhat an issue.
Stamdk got it's rating mainly from a 1vX point of vier as it can give most classes a tough fight in 1v1s.
But in 1vX you lack the mobility to kite and thus run into situations where you can only tank but fail to kill people.
For an A tier spec they would have to have a good option of dealing with zergs or bring something outstanding with them which them.
Doesn’t this contradict Stamblade being in the top tier for solo builds? I mean, a stamblade has zero chance of taking out multiple players but they’re top tier because they can run away with cloak? Seems like Stamblade is being held to a different standard with the only answer being ‘because cloak’.
In general most rankings are fine, but Stamblade being too high and Stamplar too low stand out the most as ‘WTFs’. DK a little low too.
No, they are top tier because they are very mobile and they can kite/handle multiple opponents at once and take them out one by one. They are not held on a different standard. They were always top tier for solo open world and will always be there because of how the class is designed.
Saying that, “they are” isn’t really accomplishing anything. Examples and details are best.
They have shade, cloak and single target attacks. None of which lends itself well to defeating groups which is why it’s one of the weaker classes for high end bg/group play; just escaping them. That’s in addition to the fact that coordinated groups utilize tons of AoE resulting in cloak being of little use. They're forced into solo situations due to lacking in groups. (Plus all classes can invis pot and undo to similar effect)
And if we are basing, solo off of 1 facing groups than it really is a red flag to the list. Kiting groups and fighting 1 at a time is 1vX’ing bad groups that separate and overextend. Which would be a different standard tbh. Nightblades are not “S” vs coordinated groups. Meanwhile there are classes that can kill multiple targets simultaneously. The solo category seems to be mostly about exiting fight.
I said solo open world, not group play. Stick to the topic. They are not top tier in group play. You can literally see that in the rankings. Please read before you respond.
And yes NBs are not S tier vs coordinated groups. No class can handle coordinated groups. The criteria for solo play are prety clear. Ability to self sustain, stay alive, kiting and fighting multiple people of lower skill level than you because you are not going to 1vX people of equal skill level no matter which class you are playing. The two classes which have always stood on top in solo play despite the nerfs, are stamblades and mag sorcs because of how well they are designed for solo play. They just fit those criteria perfectly.
Saying that stamblades are not S tier in solo play because they are not good in groups and because they cant kill coordinated groups is just a strawman argument. You are literally putting ur own criteria with the sole purpose of saying that stamblades arent good.
You:
“I said solo open world, not group play. Stick to the topic.”
”Saying that stamblades are not S tier in solo play because they are not good in groups and because they cant kill coordinated groups is just a strawman argument.”
Me:
“And if we are basing, solo off of 1 facing groups than it really is a red flag to the list. Kiting groups and fighting 1 at a time is 1vX’ing bad groups that separate and overextend. Which would be a different standard tbh.”
When you invent an argument just to have something to respond to it gets silly. Here’s your own advice.
“Please read before you respond.”
Also you in the same post : " Saying that, they are isn’t really accomplishing anything. Examples and details are best.
They have shade, cloak and single target attacks. None of which lends itself well to defeating groups which is why it’s one of the weaker classes for high end bg/group play; just escaping them. That’s in addition to the fact that coordinated groups utilize tons of AoE resulting in cloak being of little use. They're forced into solo situations due to lacking in groups. (Plus all classes can invis pot and undo to similar effect)
And if we are basing, solo off of 1 facing groups than it really is a red flag to the list. Kiting groups and fighting 1 at a time is 1vX’ing bad groups that separate and overextend. Which would be a different standard tbh. Nightblades are not “S” vs coordinated groups. Meanwhile there are classes that can kill multiple targets simultaneously. The solo category seems to be mostly about exiting fight. "
Dont have reading issues at all. I mean ur post is right there, you can clearly see that. You are just cherry picking sentences from ur post to make ur argument. But yeah whatever floats ur boat. On the actual topic tho, seems like you cant tell what solo play actually is or at least how its viewed on the rankings.
Bruh, you’ve lost context. Everything you’ve highlighted that I stated is true. What you falsely accused me of saying is this:
“Saying that stamblades are not S tier in solo play because they are not good in groups”
You catch that? “In groups.” Nothing you quoted, literally nowhere, did I ever claim nightblades aren’t S in solo because they aren’t good IN GROUPS!.
My take on solo was exclusively about facing groups. Solo nightblades vs groups. 1vX
So.. leave me out of YOUR argument. You’re responding to something YOU invented.
I havent lost context. I was strictly speaking about stamblades being top tier in solo play and literally in the first paragraph of ur post you said stamblades are the weaker class for high end BGs/group play. Umm what?
Your take on 1vX is about 1 person fighting multiple organised people of high skill level. That concept doesnt even exist in the game no matter which class you are playing. The issue isnt that i responded to something i invented. The issue is that you invented ur own category called "fighting organised groups of high skill level" and tried to base the performance of solo NB off of that category. Well newsflash buddy, all classes are D tier in that category. You are not going to 1vX organised people of high skill level no matter which class u are playing.3 -
ThePhantomThorn✭✭✭✭Royalthought wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »Luckylancer wrote: »Interesting list. Why stamdk is so low? He feels better generaly. Maybe 1 tier better. And how can stamden be S in solo? How can they kill someone better than others with last nerfs to stamden's best build? What is his superior kite options againts others?
Stamsorc so low, no wonders. They dont bring anything to group play and they are average at solo.
Stamdk lacks a reliable way of dealing with ranged attacks, wings don't count here as they come at the cost of survivability against other specs or offence as barspace is somewhat an issue.
Stamdk got it's rating mainly from a 1vX point of vier as it can give most classes a tough fight in 1v1s.
But in 1vX you lack the mobility to kite and thus run into situations where you can only tank but fail to kill people.
For an A tier spec they would have to have a good option of dealing with zergs or bring something outstanding with them which them.
Doesn’t this contradict Stamblade being in the top tier for solo builds? I mean, a stamblade has zero chance of taking out multiple players but they’re top tier because they can run away with cloak? Seems like Stamblade is being held to a different standard with the only answer being ‘because cloak’.
In general most rankings are fine, but Stamblade being too high and Stamplar too low stand out the most as ‘WTFs’. DK a little low too.
No, they are top tier because they are very mobile and they can kite/handle multiple opponents at once and take them out one by one. They are not held on a different standard. They were always top tier for solo open world and will always be there because of how the class is designed.
Saying that, “they are” isn’t really accomplishing anything. Examples and details are best.
They have shade, cloak and single target attacks. None of which lends itself well to defeating groups which is why it’s one of the weaker classes for high end bg/group play; just escaping them. That’s in addition to the fact that coordinated groups utilize tons of AoE resulting in cloak being of little use. They're forced into solo situations due to lacking in groups. (Plus all classes can invis pot and undo to similar effect)
And if we are basing, solo off of 1 facing groups than it really is a red flag to the list. Kiting groups and fighting 1 at a time is 1vX’ing bad groups that separate and overextend. Which would be a different standard tbh. Nightblades are not “S” vs coordinated groups. Meanwhile there are classes that can kill multiple targets simultaneously. The solo category seems to be mostly about exiting fight.
I said solo open world, not group play. Stick to the topic. They are not top tier in group play. You can literally see that in the rankings. Please read before you respond.
And yes NBs are not S tier vs coordinated groups. No class can handle coordinated groups. The criteria for solo play are prety clear. Ability to self sustain, stay alive, kiting and fighting multiple people of lower skill level than you because you are not going to 1vX people of equal skill level no matter which class you are playing. The two classes which have always stood on top in solo play despite the nerfs, are stamblades and mag sorcs because of how well they are designed for solo play. They just fit those criteria perfectly.
Saying that stamblades are not S tier in solo play because they are not good in groups and because they cant kill coordinated groups is just a strawman argument. You are literally putting ur own criteria with the sole purpose of saying that stamblades arent good.
You:
“I said solo open world, not group play. Stick to the topic.”
”Saying that stamblades are not S tier in solo play because they are not good in groups and because they cant kill coordinated groups is just a strawman argument.”
Me:
“And if we are basing, solo off of 1 facing groups than it really is a red flag to the list. Kiting groups and fighting 1 at a time is 1vX’ing bad groups that separate and overextend. Which would be a different standard tbh.”
When you invent an argument just to have something to respond to it gets silly. Here’s your own advice.
“Please read before you respond.”
Also you in the same post : " Saying that, they are isn’t really accomplishing anything. Examples and details are best.
They have shade, cloak and single target attacks. None of which lends itself well to defeating groups which is why it’s one of the weaker classes for high end bg/group play; just escaping them. That’s in addition to the fact that coordinated groups utilize tons of AoE resulting in cloak being of little use. They're forced into solo situations due to lacking in groups. (Plus all classes can invis pot and undo to similar effect)
And if we are basing, solo off of 1 facing groups than it really is a red flag to the list. Kiting groups and fighting 1 at a time is 1vX’ing bad groups that separate and overextend. Which would be a different standard tbh. Nightblades are not “S” vs coordinated groups. Meanwhile there are classes that can kill multiple targets simultaneously. The solo category seems to be mostly about exiting fight. "
Dont have reading issues at all. I mean ur post is right there, you can clearly see that. You are just cherry picking sentences from ur post to make ur argument. But yeah whatever floats ur boat. On the actual topic tho, seems like you cant tell what solo play actually is or at least how its viewed on the rankings.
Bruh, you’ve lost context. Everything you’ve highlighted that I stated is true. What you falsely accused me of saying is this:
“Saying that stamblades are not S tier in solo play because they are not good in groups”
You catch that? “In groups.” Nothing you quoted, literally nowhere, did I ever claim nightblades aren’t S in solo because they aren’t good IN GROUPS!.
My take on solo was exclusively about facing groups. Solo nightblades vs groups. 1vX
So.. leave me out of YOUR argument. You’re responding to something YOU invented.
I havent lost context. I was strictly speaking about stamblades being top tier in solo play and literally in the first paragraph of ur post you said stamblades are the weaker class for high end BGs/group play. Umm what?
Your take on 1vX is about 1 person fighting multiple organised people of high skill level. That concept doesnt even exist in the game no matter which class you are playing. The issue isnt that i responded to something i invented. The issue is that you invented ur own category called "fighting organised groups of high skill level" and tried to base the performance of solo NB off of that category. Well newsflash buddy, all classes are D tier in that category. You are not going to 1vX organised people of high skill level no matter which class u are playing.
i think they mean group play as group vs group. not solo vs group.2
