Patch 5.2.5 PvP Tierlist

BohnT2 · October 2019

evoniee wrote: »

magwarden large scale: B
meanwhile stamwarden : S
meanwhile stamsorc that will streak and stun entire group and negate: A

The reason why stamsorc isn't higher than B tier is that they bring limited offence with them compared to all A and S tier specs due to lack of offensive synergies or no access to skills like shalks.
Or have less benefits for the group overall.

Nordic__Knights · October 2019

😆 😆 😆 bs 😆 😆 😆 nb only S tier ranking is CRAFTING so the rest is bs too under that 1 reason 😆 😆 😆

BohnT2 · October 2019

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

😆 😆 😆 bs 😆 😆 😆 nb only S tier ranking is CRAFTING so the rest is bs too under that 1 reason 😆 😆 😆

10/10 reasoning

Nordic__Knights · October 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

Luckylancer wrote: »

Interesting list. Why stamdk is so low? He feels better generaly. Maybe 1 tier better. And how can stamden be S in solo? How can they kill someone better than others with last nerfs to stamden's best build? What is his superior kite options againts others?

Stamsorc so low, no wonders. They dont bring anything to group play and they are average at solo.

Stamdk lacks a reliable way of dealing with ranged attacks, wings don't count here as they come at the cost of survivability against other specs or offence as barspace is somewhat an issue.

Stamdk got it's rating mainly from a 1vX point of vier as it can give most classes a tough fight in 1v1s.
But in 1vX you lack the mobility to kite and thus run into situations where you can only tank but fail to kill people.

For an A tier spec they would have to have a good option of dealing with zergs or bring something outstanding with them which them.

Doesn’t this contradict Stamblade being in the top tier for solo builds? I mean, a stamblade has zero chance of taking out multiple players but they’re top tier because they can run away with cloak? Seems like Stamblade is being held to a different standard with the only answer being ‘because cloak’.

In general most rankings are fine, but Stamblade being too high and Stamplar too low stand out the most as ‘WTFs’. DK a little low too.

Yep running away op dont you know

x48rph · October 2019

BohnT2 wrote: »

There is no plan to achieve a result in terms of class balance etc.
It's a list which exists to avoid having people spread false information about how a class can perform due to their own bias.

The list of players in there contains long term players from each spec in the game who shine out at what they do, like sanct being the leader of the best ball group out there (former zerg squad, former banana squad).
If you doubt any of these players reach out to get more information of each one of them individually or challenge them directly to a duel.

Except that the list itself is a biased opinion.That's why you have plenty of other good players disputing it. Please don't think that your list is the end all be all of rankings or accuse people of "spreading false information" because their opinion of a class's strength doesn't match your own.

PS: Since you keep repeatedly using it as some kind of justification,being able to beat someone at a duel just means your good at dueling, doesn't make you an expert on PvP class rankings

ZarkingFrued · October 2019

Never heard of anyone listed. Not saying it's wrong, just saying I spend a lot of time watching top tier pvp videos, and have never seen one of these names.

ZarkingFrued · October 2019

Vahrokh wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

I’ve come to the realization that coming to these forums looking for information is a waste of time lol. EVERYBODY is an expert but nobody KNOWS much of anything.

You could... you know... meet those guys in game and duel them.
Lose horribly and then ask them if they can give you help and suggestions.

Just saying...

Dueling means next to nothing compared to solo play

BohnT2 · October 2019

x48rph wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

There is no plan to achieve a result in terms of class balance etc.
It's a list which exists to avoid having people spread false information about how a class can perform due to their own bias.

The list of players in there contains long term players from each spec in the game who shine out at what they do, like sanct being the leader of the best ball group out there (former zerg squad, former banana squad).
If you doubt any of these players reach out to get more information of each one of them individually or challenge them directly to a duel.

Except that the list itself is a biased opinion.That's why you have plenty of other good players disputing it. Please don't think that your list is the end all be all of rankings or accuse people of "spreading false information" because their opinion of a class's strength doesn't match your own.

PS: Since you keep repeatedly using it as some kind of justification,being able to beat someone at a duel just means your good at dueling, doesn't make you an expert on PvP class rankings

You can also challenge the people to a 4v4 or challenge AoE Rats to a GvG if you think that a duel isn't enough to prove that the people on the list are top tier players.

Nordic__Knights · October 2019

BohnT2 wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

😆 😆 😆 bs 😆 😆 😆 nb only S tier ranking is CRAFTING so the rest is bs too under that 1 reason 😆 😆 😆

10/10 reasoning

on paper you can make stam nb look SSSS and ill say hell ya your right take it out to the battlefield and its an hide your tail and run away if you get seen as you'll have 20+tagteaming you that fast and why because bs like this YES at one time they was that good but everything been *** on but being able to run reason every nb thread that hits down here 20 flock in to nurff cloak or snipe as thats all stamblades are seen for ganking and tbh now days that getting to be 60/40 as damage from burst aint there no more

L_Nici · October 2019

Well, even though I can't stand two of the players responsible for the Tierlist, I have to mostly agree. Even though I personally think that Magsorc is the Top Class in Solo PvP, if you know how to play (Stamblades are annoying but S class?, I personally have way more problems with Magsorcs), just because you can attack ranged, streak out of danger and stack shields whenever you please, without ever running out of Magicka.
Many things even though predictable like Meteor Streakstun, can barely get countered since Streak isn't block or dodgeable, also they have the, in my opinion, best possibility to combo attacks like Curse, Frags and Rage to hit all at once, which can bring many players down.

Also I have to mention that the timing on Magsorcs is something you have to learn, but if you let a Magsorc fight against an equal skilled Stamblade, I am pretty sure the Magsorc will always win, since it only takes one combo to hit.

So yeah if Stamblade is put in S Class, which I really can't see (Maybe there are just not enough good NBs around), then Magsorc has to be up there too.

BohnT2 · October 2019

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

Never heard of anyone listed. Not saying it's wrong, just saying I spend a lot of time watching top tier pvp videos, and have never seen one of these names.

Updated the OP with some YouTube channels of some people involved

Arthg · October 2019

Seems to me that trash talkers in this thread fail to see that the list is the result of discussions and compromises by some of the best players on PC EU (at least I recognize a lot of names), and as such:
1) is more than just an individual's biased opinion;
2) should be praised for a fantastic community effort.

I suspect the differences between platforms and continents explain some of the too often unsupported trash-talk.

When I watch videos, I for one immediately dismiss videos of PvP on consoles or PC NA, as to me they feature an environment which is completely different from the one I experience on PC EU noCP (the epiphany came to me a couple years back with permablockers' alleged "broken builds" - where I play everybody had learned to slot an unblockable CC like 4 years ago).

Anyway, one way to move forward would be for each server and platform to produce a comparable effort - *that* would be even AWESOMER

Heresyall · October 2019

@evoniee why would you use stamsorc to streak and negate when Mag can do the same with cleanse spam,encase and lightning flood synergy on top of that. Stamsorc would just take a spot for no other utility than streak and low dps compare to other classes like stamden , keeping fear to cc is still bis to time it with synergies.Using a cc for nothing just destroys the burst potential of the group by giving stun immunity.

Tolino · October 2019

@BohnT2

I think this list is overall very accurate!
I have only 2 positioning that I see differently.

Magsorc Solo => S Rang
They have one of the best burst Combos and with Pet also one of the best heals + Mobility.

Magden Largescal6+ => A Rang
They have realy good AOE dmg with AOE Major Breach.
+good Healing!

nosecookie · October 2019

Something I did not know I wanted, but which I do now. You guys should do tier lists every big patch.

I wouldn't agree with everything but I'm self aware enough that I'm not as knowledgable as those people who made the list. So I know I'm wrong.
Thanks for making that list!

On a side note: Didn't read the threats comments but I guess Gilvoth and his many imaginary friends don't agree?

Heresyall · October 2019

Tolino wrote: »

@BohnT2

I think this list is overall very accurate!
I have only 2 positioning that I see differently.

Magsorc Solo => S Rang
They have one of the best burst Combos and with Pet also one of the best heals + Mobility.

Magden Largescal6+ => A Rang
They have realy good AOE dmg with AOE Major Breach.
+good Healing!

Hello ,in largescale you don’t want to have a build with a mix of dd/heal.At most you want to use mutagen that is rly strong.You want to have have synergy classes like magcro giving grave rubber and colossus to magsorc / magblade that have high mobility. The lack of speed and mobility and ranged synergies / aoe just makes the class reach the enemies too late after the initial hit compare to a stamden that can sprint in medium armor and gives support healing while negated ( something that mag can’t do ).

Vahrokh · October 2019

Kel wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I believe this is a good list overall. And some people seem very salty to hear their class is not as weak as they make it out to be.

Vapirko wrote: »

Why are people so salty about this list? Seems fairly accurate to me. And anyway why get mad over a list? If you have a different opinion share it and say why.

Isn't it weird?

Only in ESO can you say something good about a class, or even that you just like a class, and you'll have people who play that same class just trash it.

Only in ESO.

No sane sorc would post that their class is good.

Only in ESO you have an army of failed NBs whose only reason of life is to find a thread written by such guy and create endless posts and threads based on that, with the objective to get another, 1000000th mega-atomic nerf on sorcs.

pieratsos · October 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

Luckylancer wrote: »

Interesting list. Why stamdk is so low? He feels better generaly. Maybe 1 tier better. And how can stamden be S in solo? How can they kill someone better than others with last nerfs to stamden's best build? What is his superior kite options againts others?

Stamsorc so low, no wonders. They dont bring anything to group play and they are average at solo.

Stamdk lacks a reliable way of dealing with ranged attacks, wings don't count here as they come at the cost of survivability against other specs or offence as barspace is somewhat an issue.

Stamdk got it's rating mainly from a 1vX point of vier as it can give most classes a tough fight in 1v1s.
But in 1vX you lack the mobility to kite and thus run into situations where you can only tank but fail to kill people.

For an A tier spec they would have to have a good option of dealing with zergs or bring something outstanding with them which them.

Doesn’t this contradict Stamblade being in the top tier for solo builds? I mean, a stamblade has zero chance of taking out multiple players but they’re top tier because they can run away with cloak? Seems like Stamblade is being held to a different standard with the only answer being ‘because cloak’.

In general most rankings are fine, but Stamblade being too high and Stamplar too low stand out the most as ‘WTFs’. DK a little low too.

No, they are top tier because they are very mobile and they can kite/handle multiple opponents at once and take them out one by one. They are not held on a different standard. They were always top tier for solo open world and will always be there because of how the class is designed.

Nerftheforums · October 2019

usmcjdking wrote: »

I'd bump stamplar down half a tier for solo play.

No access to any major buffs except a really jank Remembrance and no speed/class anti-snare utility makes solo Stamplar somewhat limited. It has the undisputed best spammable in the game which can make up for it's defensive and utility gaps, but it's still missing fundamental aspects to make it a stand-out solo performer.

Stamplar this patch is amazing for solo play. I myself was pushing to have stamplar in the S tier, but I got talked out of that idea due to the fact that stamplar has low innate mobility. The only issue is, as mentioned before, the fact that you need to focus a target for a bit to take it out, but that can easily be done by both tanky stamplars and squishy ones.
Moreover, stamplar has access to minor and major protection, aoe snares, purges, really good heals and (potentially) one of highest damage outputs in the game. It does not belong to the same level of the B tier classes as it has a better mix of defense and offensive capacity.

Tolino · October 2019

Heresyall wrote: »

Hello ,in largescale you don’t want to have a build with a mix of dd/heal.At most you want to use mutagen that is rly strong.You want to have have synergy classes like magcro giving grave rubber and colossus to magsorc / magblade that have high mobility. The lack of speed and mobility and ranged synergies / aoe just makes the class reach the enemies too late after the initial hit compare to a stamden that can sprint in medium armor and gives support healing while negated ( something that mag can’t do ).

Thanks for the Info.
Does the Magdk not have the same problems?

Tommy_The_Gun · October 2019

BohnT2 wrote: »

Short list of the YouTube accounts of some of the players involved.
Kentaa
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCLk4pslZg9bCWQQYTJt3AbQ/videos

Malcolm
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCMFVcLp4BlH-Ytp_P3hFh0w

Ulopi
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UC-siTvB55Z5Cur_6ZZXig2w

Lyser
https://m.youtube.com/user/halfeatencornea

Sniker
https://m.youtube.com/user/LOLfaceNINJA

Ogybaba
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UC_K7cdEaOledCCXIPLKDR8A

Heresya (includes some videos of AoE rats)
https://m.youtube.com/user/HeresyaII

Wait, no Kristofer ESO or Dottz Gaming or Isth3reno1else or not even Alcast on the list ? I mean... Lets say many of those people you mention I see for the 1st time (and I am here since 2014 btw).
I watched some of the recent videos on those YouTube channels you mentioned. Some of them are quite old (1 - 2 months, before the patch). And no surprising, I have found a lot of this videos to be... biased (to put is lightly) towards certain classes.

That would explain why Mag Sorcs and mag/stam plars are not S tier according to this ranking. Also stam nb at S tier solo...
I dont even know how to comment on that...

It simply looks like an attempt to flip the attention & avoid some of the potential upcoming nerfs to some of their "mains".

I mean, you have put a lot of effort into making this tier list to look good but the Source of data is kinda uncertain / not reliable.

The thing is, to most people (looking at comments here) it simply looks like an a professional E-sport opinion based around 6 random ESO players...

albertberku · October 2019

Cant talk about the tier list but how come some people here say that they have 5 pvp guilds, and yet they dont know any of the names under the list. I am doing ESO pvp now and then casually without any guilds or group since only 1 year and still i know at least 3, 4 of the names. And i dont just know them from streams. I fought with them or against them throughout my plays and i just recognize the names because they are good. Some of them are top streamers, too.

SenpaiNFT · October 2019

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

Short list of the YouTube accounts of some of the players involved.
Kentaa
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCLk4pslZg9bCWQQYTJt3AbQ/videos

Malcolm
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCMFVcLp4BlH-Ytp_P3hFh0w

Ulopi
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UC-siTvB55Z5Cur_6ZZXig2w

Lyser
https://m.youtube.com/user/halfeatencornea

Sniker
https://m.youtube.com/user/LOLfaceNINJA

Ogybaba
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UC_K7cdEaOledCCXIPLKDR8A

Heresya (includes some videos of AoE rats)
https://m.youtube.com/user/HeresyaII

Wait, no Kristofer ESO or Dottz Gaming or Isth3reno1else or not even Alcast on the list ? I mean... Lets say many of those people you mention I see for the 1st time (and I am here since 2014 btw).
I watched some of the recent videos on those YouTube channels you mentioned. Some of them are quite old (1 - 2 months, before the patch). And no surprising, I have found a lot of this videos to be... biased (to put is lightly) towards certain classes.

That would explain why Mag Sorcs and mag/stam plars are not S tier according to this ranking. Also stam nb at S tier solo...
I dont even know how to comment on that...

It simply looks like an attempt to flip the attention & avoid some of the potential upcoming nerfs to some of their "mains".

I mean, you have put a lot of effort into making this tier list to look good but the Source of data is kinda uncertain / not reliable.

The thing is, to most people (looking at comments here) it simply looks like an a professional E-sport opinion based around 6 random ESO players...

Actually if you could count you would see that 24 players were named for assisting in this list. With even more help from Sniker’s discord.

Hyzock · October 2019

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

Short list of the YouTube accounts of some of the players involved.
Kentaa
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCLk4pslZg9bCWQQYTJt3AbQ/videos

Malcolm
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCMFVcLp4BlH-Ytp_P3hFh0w

Ulopi
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UC-siTvB55Z5Cur_6ZZXig2w

Lyser
https://m.youtube.com/user/halfeatencornea

Sniker
https://m.youtube.com/user/LOLfaceNINJA

Ogybaba
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UC_K7cdEaOledCCXIPLKDR8A

Heresya (includes some videos of AoE rats)
https://m.youtube.com/user/HeresyaII

Wait, no Kristofer ESO or Dottz Gaming or Isth3reno1else or not even Alcast on the list ? I mean... Lets say many of those people you mention I see for the 1st time (and I am here since 2014 btw).
I watched some of the recent videos on those YouTube channels you mentioned. Some of them are quite old (1 - 2 months, before the patch). And no surprising, I have found a lot of this videos to be... biased (to put is lightly) towards certain classes.

That would explain why Mag Sorcs and mag/stam plars are not S tier according to this ranking. Also stam nb at S tier solo...
I dont even know how to comment on that...

It simply looks like an attempt to flip the attention & avoid some of the potential upcoming nerfs to some of their "mains".

I mean, you have put a lot of effort into making this tier list to look good but the Source of data is kinda uncertain / not reliable.

The thing is, to most people (looking at comments here) it simply looks like an a professional E-sport opinion based around 6 random ESO players...

Just because they have a large following doesn't mean they are among the best players. Not flaming those content creators, I doubt any of them claim to be the best anyway. And Alcast is mainly a pve player, this is clearly a tier list for pvp, so I doubt you have any idea what you're talking about.

Nerftheforums · October 2019

.

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

Short list of the YouTube accounts of some of the players involved.
Kentaa
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCLk4pslZg9bCWQQYTJt3AbQ/videos

Malcolm
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCMFVcLp4BlH-Ytp_P3hFh0w

Ulopi
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UC-siTvB55Z5Cur_6ZZXig2w

Lyser
https://m.youtube.com/user/halfeatencornea

Sniker
https://m.youtube.com/user/LOLfaceNINJA

Ogybaba
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UC_K7cdEaOledCCXIPLKDR8A

Heresya (includes some videos of AoE rats)
https://m.youtube.com/user/HeresyaII

Wait, no Kristofer ESO or Dottz Gaming or Isth3reno1else or not even Alcast on the list ? I mean... Lets say many of those people you mention I see for the 1st time (and I am here since 2014 btw).
I watched some of the recent videos on those YouTube channels you mentioned. Some of them are quite old (1 - 2 months, before the patch). And no surprising, I have found a lot of this videos to be... biased (to put is lightly) towards certain classes.

That would explain why Mag Sorcs and mag/stam plars are not S tier according to this ranking. Also stam nb at S tier solo...
I dont even know how to comment on that...

It simply looks like an attempt to flip the attention & avoid some of the potential upcoming nerfs to some of their "mains".

I mean, you have put a lot of effort into making this tier list to look good but the Source of data is kinda uncertain / not reliable.

The thing is, to most people (looking at comments here) it simply looks like an a professional E-sport opinion based around 6 random ESO players...

You have part of the creme de la creme of the PC EU pvp scene proposing the list, which has been backed up by many other top tier players on PC NA and you ask why a casual pvper like Alcast hasn't been interviewed on his opinions?
Even dottz commented in this thread saying he agrees with basically everything. Have you read the criteria and reasoning process behind the whole thing?

BohnT2 · October 2019

albertberku wrote: »

Cant talk about the tier list but how come some people here say that they have 5 pvp guilds, and yet they dont know any of the names under the list. I am doing ESO pvp now and then casually without any guilds or group since only 1 year and still i know at least 3, 4 of the names. And i dont just know them from streams. I fought with them or against them throughout my plays and i just recognize the names because they are good. Some of them are top streamers, too.

That might come from people playing on Console (which isn't as represented by the people who made the list as PC, yet there's some like KD6).
or because the people on the list don't play on each and all campaigns and all the time.
This means people who only play 1 campaign around the same hours can only meet so many people of that list.
But there's also high MMR BGs (which only have a small player base)
7 day campaigns
Duels
No CP and CP campaigns
EU and NA server.

Rest assured tho that the people on the list know each other (but don't necessarily like each other) and can verify their suitability to create such a list and negate biases.

nosecookie · October 2019

@albertberku That is because people commenting are simply unaware. Being in 5 pvp guilds doesn't mean anything if none of them are good even if they themselves perceive them as such.
You might also wanna take a look at the poster above you. He thinks he watches Top-Tier PvP-Players/Videos online because these people have a big following and are much better than him.

He doesn't realize that all of them are good players that would flatten any mediocre player but that the skill ceiling is actually much higher. (Also lol at thinking Alcast is a PvPer)

And then he calls these videos biased just because the people that made the list are mainly representing the class they are best at on their channels, totally disregarding the fact that multiple people made the list and that the creators of that list are posting in this thread even giving tips and explaining their reasoning as a group giving each class and spec a tier.

BohnT2 · October 2019

As we got some great feedback on the forums, on Discord and in game we plan to make such a list for the following updates as well, with better explanations and more details.

If you have any ideas how to make the list better or just general suggestions feel free to reach out to us.

@HankTwo

Tommy_The_Gun · October 2019

BohnT2 wrote: »

As we got some great feedback on the forums, on Discord and in game we plan to make such a list for the following updates as well, with better explanations and more details.

If you have any ideas how to make the list better or just general suggestions feel free to reach out to us.

@HankTwo

I think that once you have a list for solo tier, you should try some 1v1 or duels of an "S" tier vs "A" tier.
Because a class can look good on paper, but if for example class at tier "A" will win in most cases vs class in "S" tier, then something is wrong I guess...

Royalthought · October 2019

pieratsos wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

Luckylancer wrote: »

Interesting list. Why stamdk is so low? He feels better generaly. Maybe 1 tier better. And how can stamden be S in solo? How can they kill someone better than others with last nerfs to stamden's best build? What is his superior kite options againts others?

Stamsorc so low, no wonders. They dont bring anything to group play and they are average at solo.

Stamdk lacks a reliable way of dealing with ranged attacks, wings don't count here as they come at the cost of survivability against other specs or offence as barspace is somewhat an issue.

Stamdk got it's rating mainly from a 1vX point of vier as it can give most classes a tough fight in 1v1s.
But in 1vX you lack the mobility to kite and thus run into situations where you can only tank but fail to kill people.

For an A tier spec they would have to have a good option of dealing with zergs or bring something outstanding with them which them.

Doesn’t this contradict Stamblade being in the top tier for solo builds? I mean, a stamblade has zero chance of taking out multiple players but they’re top tier because they can run away with cloak? Seems like Stamblade is being held to a different standard with the only answer being ‘because cloak’.

In general most rankings are fine, but Stamblade being too high and Stamplar too low stand out the most as ‘WTFs’. DK a little low too.

No, they are top tier because they are very mobile and they can kite/handle multiple opponents at once and take them out one by one. They are not held on a different standard. They were always top tier for solo open world and will always be there because of how the class is designed.

Saying that, “they are” isn’t really accomplishing anything. Examples and details are best.
They have shade, cloak and single target attacks. None of which lends itself well to defeating groups which is why it’s one of the weaker classes for high end bg/group play; just escaping them. That’s in addition to the fact that coordinated groups utilize tons of AoE resulting in cloak being of little use. They're forced into solo situations due to lacking in groups. (Plus all classes can invis pot and undo to similar effect)

And if we are basing, solo off of 1 facing groups than it really is a red flag to the list. Kiting groups and fighting 1 at a time is 1vX’ing bad groups that separate and overextend. Which would be a different standard tbh. Nightblades are not “S” vs coordinated groups. Meanwhile there are classes that can kill multiple targets simultaneously. The solo category seems to be mostly about exiting fight.