Patch 5.2.5 PvP Tierlist

JumpmanLane

BohnT2 wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

I’ve come to the realization that coming to these forums looking for information is a waste of time lol. EVERYBODY is an expert but nobody KNOWS much of anything.

Again, I ask what’s the point of such a list, outside of stroking one’s own ego? The VANITY!

Is this DEFINITIVE list designed to help folks choose classes? Is it designed to help ZOS balance the game? Is it a sideways nerf thread? Is it an undercover buff thread? Is it just a debate club exercise?

I mean who are these people. Are they considered the best jack-of-all-trades, multi-class playing Cyro-gods? Are they the best in show on their respective classes? Are they hot-shot duelests? Are they renowned 1vXers? Are they Grand Overlord guild crown ball Zerglings? Are they arm-chair Zone Generals?

I unno...I’m jus’ a lil Lane; but, is it too much to ask for some context with regards to this list? Maybe get some bonafides from the names so prominent in the SMALL PRINT lol.

There is no plan to achieve a result in terms of class balance etc.
It's a list which exists to avoid having people spread false information about how a class can perform due to their own bias.

The list of players in there contains long term players from each spec in the game who shine out at what they do, like sanct being the leader of the best ball group out there (former zerg squad, former banana squad).
If you doubt any of these players reach out to get more information of each one of them individually or challenge them directly to a duel.

I know! We could have a spelling contest!

kalunte

@Iskiab well, since the large scale efficiency ranking applies to what the class bring to the group and not how well a class can be carried by a large group I have to ask again.

Unless considering the fact that having so few viable Xbuild for small-scale allows nb to slot generic skills that wouldn't fit any proper build outside of large scale and therefore 1 rank should be given to all classes..

Rake

heng14rwb17_ESO wrote: »

100 ENEMIES ARE GOING TO CAPTURE KEEP !
SEND IN THE S RANK PLAYERS NOW !
NOW !

Ass rank players aka zerglings

Moonsorrow

Pretty close to the truth list what comes to competitive play.

One thing though Bohn, look at that solo play Magcro at the last place down there, stare at it until you start to see it as a sad emote, soon you hear a faint techno beat, robotic lyric repeating "training wheels" and "bane of eso" with a Vampire Drain icon dancing on your screen.

The Uninvited

There's only one tier list:

1. PC NA
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7. Console servers
8. PC EU

Gambino108

I like it Bohn. Good thread my friend!!

Doesn't take into account the Alessia Bridge endgame tho! You might wanna think about that if you wanna appeal to the top pvpers!

SenpaiNFT

As accurate as it gets. Now @zos take this and buff every class up to S for solo play and the game will be fun without cast times.

EmEm_Oh

Interesting list, but really...how good you're opponent is...defines you. That's what's missing from many of the "observations" of PvP.

BohnT2

Moonsorrow wrote: »

Pretty close to the truth list what comes to competitive play.

One thing though Bohn, look at that solo play Magcro at the last place down there, stare at it until you start to see it as a sad emote, soon you hear a faint techno beat, robotic lyric repeating "training wheels" and "bane of eso" with a Vampire Drain icon dancing on your screen.

The people who created that list agree on vamp drain being overperforming, but that's not the point of this thread.

What is indeed topic of this thread is magnecro position in the tier and not even vamp drain can save it that's why it's at D rank.

SenpaiNFT

Iskiab wrote: »

Looking at the list it looks decent.

I’d make a couple changes, Stamplars are way stronger than your list suggests and Stamblades much worse.

Specifically

Solo play:
Stamwarden down a tier, Stamplar up a tier, Magsorc up a tier, Magblade down a tier, MagDK up a tier, Stamblade down a tier

Small Scale:

Stamblade down a tier

Large Scale:

Stamplar up two tiers, Stamsorc up a tier, Magwarden up a tier, Stamnecro up a tier, Magtemplar down a tier

Looks to me like the class reps are mostly small scale.

kalunte wrote: »

I'd like to know how does magblades get to A in 6+ groups from B to 6- groups?

You should remove the small/large categories and just talk solo and group utility.

Crossed specs aren't so needed in 8+ groups since the number itself does the job and you also have enough ppl dedicated to each task, even tanks sometimes.

Anyway, good job for the visual😊

Lack of self healing, when you get into large groups it isn’t an issue. Magblades are strong in larger groups, you just have to drop your normal magblade preconceptions of how to spec.

Wait are you saying Stamplar is the best solo class? Better then Stamden and Stamblade? Interesting, very interesting.

Iskiab wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I believe this is a good list overall. And some people seem very salty to hear their class is not as weak as they make it out to be.

Vapirko wrote: »

Why are people so salty about this list? Seems fairly accurate to me. And anyway why get mad over a list? If you have a different opinion share it and say why.

Isn't it weird?

Only in ESO can you say something good about a class, or even that you just like a class, and you'll have people who play that same class just trash it.

Only in ESO.

I find this mostly with sorcs. I've mained a sorc since day 1, and anytime I've said anything positive about the class, here comes 50 people just trashing thier own class. I remember in Mirkmire talking about what sets sorc can use, and coming up with Armor Master as something to look at...and getting thrashed even for suggesting it. And yet, it was widely used.

Over the years though, I've learned there's kind of a weird manipulation of facts on the forum. You almost can't talk positive about your favorite class in fear it'll be nerfed, and you have to constantly talk trash about your favorite class in hope you'll see a buff. And getting lost in the shuffle is any true, real, discussion about over/underperforming classes or skills.

That's why this list will never be looked on favorably in these forums. Too many players with agendas. Hence the salt. Good luck with any real discussion here!

I'm out

I agree 100%. When I play my OP spec I say it’s OP and not try to fall for the same trap.

Funny thing is it looks like it’s working. One of the best small scale and solo specs Stamplar isn’t top tier? Really? Bias is huge.

I would also like to know how many of those people play stamblade for BGs, small scale or large scale. The answer will be zero, and they play with zero of them. I guess as long as the Stamblades out there only run solo everything’s okay though.

Can you give reasons why stamplar should be S tier for solo and small-scale?

Best/2nd best spammable, top tier burst, stronger healing then other classes, good survivability, good healing.

A DK can be tankier, and a sorc burstier, but they’re pretty close to the total package. You just need some mag regen to dip into mag abilities.

RoR is about half the healing of vigor, jabs stronger than other spammables, great cc, strong delayed burst.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Id still rank magplar higher solo, it has mobility in the form of mass aoe snares and has mega off heals with RoR + bubble + even sweep heal.

Stamplar same thing, its just got a nice amount of everything, burst when needed, jabs (which now work with onslaught), a self purge which acts as a nice hot + aoe snare, bubble if spec'd to use it,

Stamplar has some of the lowest mobility, virtually no counter to range classes, and burst that requires full focusing a single person for 6 seconds straight. You are both correct that it does have a strong spammable and decent healing thanks to purify (worse then both StamDk and Stamden, equal with Stamsorc using crit surge/power surge and Stamcro using mender, greater then Stamblade) but in terms of active survivability it’s mobility and lack of ranged defense cause it to drop off.

The above reasons are why Stamplar is not on par with Stamblade who’s survivability tool cloak counters all classes and when used effectively allows the player to pull off feats no other class can mimic, nor on par with Stamden who’s healing and defensive abilities allow them to lineup their extremely strong 1vX burst to again, pull off feats no other class can mimic.

technohic

EmEm_Oh wrote: »

Interesting list, but really...how good you're opponent is...defines you. That's what's missing from many of the "observations" of PvP.

I think these guys are going at it being played at the highest level against the highest level, but it does matter. I run into a lot that I just destroy. Today, I purposely ran after guys that have destroyed me before. Some destroyed me again, but you learn from it and there is a huge disparity, but again. I think they accounted for that on this list.

Royalthought

technohic wrote: »

EmEm_Oh wrote: »

Interesting list, but really...how good you're opponent is...defines you. That's what's missing from many of the "observations" of PvP.

I think these guys are going at it being played at the highest level against the highest level, but it does matter. I run into a lot that I just destroy. Today, I purposely ran after guys that have destroyed me before. Some destroyed me again, but you learn from it and there is a huge disparity, but again. I think they accounted for that on this list.

It’s always best to specify scenarios and use examples. Simply believing without checking the source creates the greatest opportunity for bias decision making.

On your specific point, what is high end open world, solo play? Tbf its a bit of a loaded question. The conflict here is that nightblades are lackluster in high end matches in BG’s. Their toolkit is single target and defenses are hard countered by abundant aoe.

Solo play is non specific. How high end applies here is questionable. 1vX is most often about killing under skilled groups. The S tier has no merit, unless it’s purely about escaping.

Iskiab

SenpaiNFT wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Looking at the list it looks decent.

I’d make a couple changes, Stamplars are way stronger than your list suggests and Stamblades much worse.

Specifically

Solo play:
Stamwarden down a tier, Stamplar up a tier, Magsorc up a tier, Magblade down a tier, MagDK up a tier, Stamblade down a tier

Small Scale:

Stamblade down a tier

Large Scale:

Stamplar up two tiers, Stamsorc up a tier, Magwarden up a tier, Stamnecro up a tier, Magtemplar down a tier

Looks to me like the class reps are mostly small scale.

kalunte wrote: »

I'd like to know how does magblades get to A in 6+ groups from B to 6- groups?

You should remove the small/large categories and just talk solo and group utility.

Crossed specs aren't so needed in 8+ groups since the number itself does the job and you also have enough ppl dedicated to each task, even tanks sometimes.

Anyway, good job for the visual😊

Lack of self healing, when you get into large groups it isn’t an issue. Magblades are strong in larger groups, you just have to drop your normal magblade preconceptions of how to spec.

Wait are you saying Stamplar is the best solo class? Better then Stamden and Stamblade? Interesting, very interesting.

Iskiab wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I believe this is a good list overall. And some people seem very salty to hear their class is not as weak as they make it out to be.

Vapirko wrote: »

Why are people so salty about this list? Seems fairly accurate to me. And anyway why get mad over a list? If you have a different opinion share it and say why.

Isn't it weird?

Only in ESO can you say something good about a class, or even that you just like a class, and you'll have people who play that same class just trash it.

Only in ESO.

I find this mostly with sorcs. I've mained a sorc since day 1, and anytime I've said anything positive about the class, here comes 50 people just trashing thier own class. I remember in Mirkmire talking about what sets sorc can use, and coming up with Armor Master as something to look at...and getting thrashed even for suggesting it. And yet, it was widely used.

Over the years though, I've learned there's kind of a weird manipulation of facts on the forum. You almost can't talk positive about your favorite class in fear it'll be nerfed, and you have to constantly talk trash about your favorite class in hope you'll see a buff. And getting lost in the shuffle is any true, real, discussion about over/underperforming classes or skills.

That's why this list will never be looked on favorably in these forums. Too many players with agendas. Hence the salt. Good luck with any real discussion here!

I'm out

I agree 100%. When I play my OP spec I say it’s OP and not try to fall for the same trap.

Funny thing is it looks like it’s working. One of the best small scale and solo specs Stamplar isn’t top tier? Really? Bias is huge.

I would also like to know how many of those people play stamblade for BGs, small scale or large scale. The answer will be zero, and they play with zero of them. I guess as long as the Stamblades out there only run solo everything’s okay though.

Can you give reasons why stamplar should be S tier for solo and small-scale?

Best/2nd best spammable, top tier burst, stronger healing then other classes, good survivability, good healing.

A DK can be tankier, and a sorc burstier, but they’re pretty close to the total package. You just need some mag regen to dip into mag abilities.

RoR is about half the healing of vigor, jabs stronger than other spammables, great cc, strong delayed burst.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Id still rank magplar higher solo, it has mobility in the form of mass aoe snares and has mega off heals with RoR + bubble + even sweep heal.

Stamplar same thing, its just got a nice amount of everything, burst when needed, jabs (which now work with onslaught), a self purge which acts as a nice hot + aoe snare, bubble if spec'd to use it,

Stamplar has some of the lowest mobility, virtually no counter to range classes, and burst that requires full focusing a single person for 6 seconds straight. You are both correct that it does have a strong spammable and decent healing thanks to purify (worse then both StamDk and Stamden, equal with Stamsorc using crit surge/power surge and Stamcro using mender, greater then Stamblade) but in terms of active survivability it’s mobility and lack of ranged defense cause it to drop off.

The above reasons are why Stamplar is not on par with Stamblade who’s survivability tool cloak counters all classes and when used effectively allows the player to pull off feats no other class can mimic, nor on par with Stamden who’s healing and defensive abilities allow them to lineup their extremely strong 1vX burst to again, pull off feats no other class can mimic.

Stamwarden burst is good but it’s also not as easy to line up. I don’t see your point about mobility, stamplar has a charge and can use speed like everyone else. Sure they don’t have streak or minor expedition like Stamsorcs, but no one does except sorcs. Basicly for mobility it’s tied for 2nd like every other class in the game.

If anything if you wanted to differentiate classes based on mobility DKs and Templars would be a tier above everyone else because of easy access to snares from passives.

amir412

Nice one @BohnT,
The guys who built this tier list are well known players from the dueling / small scale/ oragnised pvp groups, and have deep knowledge in PVP aspect of ESO.
Anyone saying they have never heard about these players, is either a zerger, or havent stick to the PVP scene long enough.
Cheers.

Witar

Seems legit

CrimsonGTX

I'm no top dueler and only started PvPing solo open world since switching to PC(non-cp), but can someone explain why Mag Warden is ranked as low for solo play? Is it because they lack the ability to disengage from combat compared to NB and Sorc? Or is it because their burst is line of sight?

Lately I been giving my mag warden a run in PvP, and it's been surprisingly performing well. I've also had people just run up to me expecting a easy kill before they disengage away. The main differences I noticed between playing my Sorc vs Warden is two things I listed above.

pieratsos

JumpmanLane wrote: »

I’ve come to the realization that coming to these forums looking for information is a waste of time lol. EVERYBODY is an expert but nobody KNOWS much of anything.

Again, I ask what’s the point of such a list, outside of stroking one’s own ego? The VANITY!

Is this DEFINITIVE list designed to help folks choose classes? Is it designed to help ZOS balance the game? Is it a sideways nerf thread? Is it an undercover buff thread? Is it just a debate club exercise?

I mean who are these people. Are they considered the best jack-of-all-trades, multi-class playing Cyro-gods? Are they the best in show on their respective classes? Are they hot-shot duelests? Are they renowned 1vXers? Are they Grand Overlord guild crown ball Zerglings? Are they arm-chair Zone Generals?

I unno...I’m jus’ a lil Lane; but, is it too much to ask for some context with regards to this list? Maybe get some bonafides from the names so prominent in the SMALL PRINT lol.

Its just a class PVP ranking list and people can use it in any way they like. Some new guy comes to the game and wants to pick a good class for PVP. Well this list can help that guy make his choice. There is ur context. Im sure you can think of more ways such a list would be helpful.

merevie

Very blatant attempt at a 'nerf mageblade' thread because you are yet to discover detect pots. Stick to begging people to make these posts in zone.

Moonsorrow

BohnT2 wrote: »

Moonsorrow wrote: »

Pretty close to the truth list what comes to competitive play.

One thing though Bohn, look at that solo play Magcro at the last place down there, stare at it until you start to see it as a sad emote, soon you hear a faint techno beat, robotic lyric repeating "training wheels" and "bane of eso" with a Vampire Drain icon dancing on your screen.

The people who created that list agree on vamp drain being overperforming, but that's not the point of this thread.

What is indeed topic of this thread is magnecro position in the tier and not even vamp drain can save it that's why it's at D rank.

With Vamp Drain magcro solo play can occasionally atleast feel decent when all stars align (things do not bugout too much) and opponents are not a group of S tier training wheelers. You know this. And you know nerfing Drain would not make ZOS give magcro any other competitive option instead, they do not operate like that and when do, it takes years.

But lets not go into that again.

Magcro shall continue to remain as the RP spec for soloplay, but nice for Harmony play & support in some small scale combos and really good at large coordinated groups.

Koensol

kalunte wrote: »

I'd like to know how does magblades get to A in 6+ groups from B to 6- groups?

You should remove the small/large categories and just talk solo and group utility.

Crossed specs aren't so needed in 8+ groups since the number itself does the job and you also have enough ppl dedicated to each task, even tanks sometimes.

Anyway, good job for the visual😊

In small scale groups (apart from heal blades which are still top tier imo) magblade doesn't offer as much to the group as in small scale you have to be self-sustainable, which on magblade requires either a lot of sacrifices in order to brawl it out, and thus losing overall dmg output, or to go the cloak route which is terrible for small group play against bigger groups. In large scale (ball groups), magblade dmg can get to its full potential by speccing for harmony bombblade and having insane ult uptime due to making a ton of kills on soul harvest bar. Playing like that in a group is only possible with at least 2 fully specced healers/cleansers. Hence the difference between small scale and large scale.

Though for the current patch im willing to argue magblade dmg specs are more viable for small scale too compared to last patch. If you work carefully on positioning, using lotus fan for AoE minor vulnerability and going for burst on squishier targets, you can get quite a lot of kills for your group or setting them up for your teammates. The buff to assassins will in both travel time and duration has done a lot for the class. Getting that quick burst on someone to set up a kill gives back some of the burst identity to magblade. Where it still suffers (in a dark cloak setup especially) is the fact that heal ward is trash. You are susceptible to being burst down and its tough to get out of execute range with just hots. In general though, the bigger the group is that your fighting, the more useless magblade becomes in small scale.

Also, the reason why people don't know the listed players, is either because most of them are from PC EU, or because they only pay attention to the zerg/large scale 'playing for the map' community. This isn't meant as being condescending, it just is what it is. Anyone who plays small scale or watches/plays in duel tournaments knows these people.

BohnT2

CrimsonGTX wrote: »

I'm no top dueler and only started PvPing solo open world since switching to PC(non-cp), but can someone explain why Mag Warden is ranked as low for solo play? Is it because they lack the ability to disengage from combat compared to NB and Sorc? Or is it because their burst is line of sight?

Lately I been giving my mag warden a run in PvP, and it's been surprisingly performing well. I've also had people just run up to me expecting a easy kill before they disengage away. The main differences I noticed between playing my Sorc vs Warden is two things I listed above.

Magwarden got it's rating because it lacks a reliable stun and because it's worse in 1v1s which were also used to make this list.
Another reason being that magwarden has a hard time finishing off tanky opponents.

On top it can't compete with the classes at higher ranks for different reasons.

Hope this helps

Luckylancer

Interesting list. Why stamdk is so low? He feels better generaly. Maybe 1 tier better. And how can stamden be S in solo? How can they kill someone better than others with last nerfs to stamden's best build? What is his superior kite options againts others?

Stamsorc so low, no wonders. They dont bring anything to group play and they are average at solo.

BohnT2

Moonsorrow wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

Moonsorrow wrote: »

Pretty close to the truth list what comes to competitive play.

One thing though Bohn, look at that solo play Magcro at the last place down there, stare at it until you start to see it as a sad emote, soon you hear a faint techno beat, robotic lyric repeating "training wheels" and "bane of eso" with a Vampire Drain icon dancing on your screen.

The people who created that list agree on vamp drain being overperforming, but that's not the point of this thread.

What is indeed topic of this thread is magnecro position in the tier and not even vamp drain can save it that's why it's at D rank.

With Vamp Drain magcro solo play can occasionally atleast feel decent when all stars align (things do not bugout too much) and opponents are not a group of S tier training wheelers. You know this. And you know nerfing Drain would not make ZOS give magcro any other competitive option instead, they do not operate like that and when do, it takes years.

But lets not go into that again.

Magcro shall continue to remain as the RP spec for soloplay, but nice for Harmony play & support in some small scale combos and really good at large coordinated groups.

If you think i don't care about magcro i have to disappoint you.
Just check my activity on discord or some of my last posts.
But i will always refrain from defending broken mechanics and will them call them out as such.

BohnT2

Luckylancer wrote: »

Interesting list. Why stamdk is so low? He feels better generaly. Maybe 1 tier better. And how can stamden be S in solo? How can they kill someone better than others with last nerfs to stamden's best build? What is his superior kite options againts others?

Stamsorc so low, no wonders. They dont bring anything to group play and they are average at solo.

Stamdk lacks a reliable way of dealing with ranged attacks, wings don't count here as they come at the cost of survivability against other specs or offence as barspace is somewhat an issue.

Stamdk got it's rating mainly from a 1vX point of vier as it can give most classes a tough fight in 1v1s.
But in 1vX you lack the mobility to kite and thus run into situations where you can only tank but fail to kill people.

For an A tier spec they would have to have a good option of dealing with zergs or bring something outstanding with them which them.

Hexquisite

I think this list is fairly accurate, maybe StamDK too low. I mostly duo/small scale, but also occaisionally run in ball groups, and I have been killed by a couple players on this list:)

I would like to add PC/NA is running a lot more tankier meta this patch as well..or at least the players that we come across, so many 10 min fights that end in a draw. OR BGs deathmatch that take for ever because every team is tanked up. I don't think it's just PC/EU.

Derra

Maybe add a straight 1v1 potential for every class aswell (with their open world solo builds).

I feel picture would be vastly different again.

From a sorc perspective i don´t think the class is in a position to win a 1v1 against any other class given similar skill level.
As a consequence my personal opinion on A tier rating for solo is misleading - bc it only figures in fighting less skilled players.

CrimsonGTX

BohnT2 wrote: »

CrimsonGTX wrote: »

I'm no top dueler and only started PvPing solo open world since switching to PC(non-cp), but can someone explain why Mag Warden is ranked as low for solo play? Is it because they lack the ability to disengage from combat compared to NB and Sorc? Or is it because their burst is line of sight?

Lately I been giving my mag warden a run in PvP, and it's been surprisingly performing well. I've also had people just run up to me expecting a easy kill before they disengage away. The main differences I noticed between playing my Sorc vs Warden is two things I listed above.

Magwarden got it's rating because it lacks a reliable stun and because it's worse in 1v1s which were also used to make this list.
Another reason being that magwarden has a hard time finishing off tanky opponents.

On top it can't compete with the classes at higher ranks for different reasons.

Hope this helps

Ahhh yes, I completely forgot about the lack of reliable stun. Thanks for the insight

HankTwo

In principle a good list, but what I don't like so much is that you didn't distinguish between offensive and support/healing roles in case of small and large scale. You obviously took both into consideration for your list, but its not always clear which role made a class reach a certain tier.

For example, I agree that a 'standard' magblade build isn't that useful in a small group, but they can make extremely potent healers, especially for bgs. In that role they should at least be A tier (with the recent huge nerfs to DOTs their biggest shortcoming - no good class purge like templar and necro - became much less relevant).

Oh and out of curiosity, why is stamDK ranked higher than stamplar in case of large groups? I mean yeah, they are both undesirable classes in this context, but at least stamplar can bring an AOE heal with a strong synergy, another Nova for harmony bombs, and a heal ultimate. Don't get me wrong, magplar is for sure better in all those aspects, but the same is true when comparing magDK to stamDK for large scale.

Victor_Blade

Random zerglings wouldn't know most of the people on that list. The tier list was made by one of the best(if not the best) players for each of those classes. I still have issues with that tier list too but the people who made the list play their class way better than you so shut up about not knowing them or go challenge them to a duel and see the skill difference yourself.

PureEnvelope35

tonemd wrote: »

PureEnvelope35 wrote: »

Poor Mag Necro ;;

Seems to be the only thing on which everyone is in agreement

At least the community agrees on something for once.