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Patch 5.2.5 PvP Tierlist
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Moonsorrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Moonsorrow wrote: »Moonsorrow wrote: »Pretty close to the truth list what comes to competitive play.
One thing though Bohn, look at that solo play Magcro at the last place down there, stare at it until you start to see it as a sad emote, soon you hear a faint techno beat, robotic lyric repeating "training wheels" and "bane of eso" with a Vampire Drain icon dancing on your screen.
The people who created that list agree on vamp drain being overperforming, but that's not the point of this thread.
What is indeed topic of this thread is magnecro position in the tier and not even vamp drain can save it that's why it's at D rank.
With Vamp Drain magcro solo play can occasionally atleast feel decent when all stars align (things do not bugout too much) and opponents are not a group of S tier training wheelers. You know this. And you know nerfing Drain would not make ZOS give magcro any other competitive option instead, they do not operate like that and when do, it takes years.
But lets not go into that again.
Magcro shall continue to remain as the RP spec for soloplay, but nice for Harmony play & support in some small scale combos and really good at large coordinated groups.
If you think i don't care about magcro i have to disappoint you.
Just check my activity on discord or some of my last posts.
But i will always refrain from defending broken mechanics and will them call them out as such.
You have a right to your opinion same as anyone else.
I just keep hoping ZOS can get smart and does a time travel to a time before they started to listen to the wrong small group of people who have all sorts of opinions on how this game should be.. while those opinions in reality have turned ESO pvp community into 1 bar almost dead campaigns and most small scale groups competition level instead of challenging each others to fight at Cyro or bgs is who posts more Incaps and Pepes on discord. Extra points for them come from, and they are proud about it, that they are not even actively playing anymore.
But back to the topic, as said, i did agree that list is rather accurate. Allthough i dislike listings a bit because some sheeplings take them too seriously and can create some trends and repetitive 4 of the same class bg teams and so on due to the "pls tell what is best class and i play that" -people.
Small edit: I do like lists like this for their entertainment value though and the graphic was nice. So keep em coming in future too.
Edited by Moonsorrow on October 27, 2019 10:32AM1 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭CrimsonGTX wrote: »I'm no top dueler and only started PvPing solo open world since switching to PC(non-cp), but can someone explain why Mag Warden is ranked as low for solo play? Is it because they lack the ability to disengage from combat compared to NB and Sorc? Or is it because their burst is line of sight?
Lately I been giving my mag warden a run in PvP, and it's been surprisingly performing well. I've also had people just run up to me expecting a easy kill before they disengage away. The main differences I noticed between playing my Sorc vs Warden is two things I listed above.
Lack of a reliable stun imho, rather than lacking an escape. The class is quite mobile for a magicka one thanks to spammable major expedition and shimmering.
But without a stun setting up your burst and finishing up targets in 1vX can be a challenge.0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »I believe this is a good list overall. And some people seem very salty to hear their class is not as weak as they make it out to be.Why are people so salty about this list? Seems fairly accurate to me. And anyway why get mad over a list? If you have a different opinion share it and say why.
Isn't it weird?
Only in ESO can you say something good about a class, or even that you just like a class, and you'll have people who play that same class just trash it.
Only in ESO.
I find this mostly with sorcs. I've mained a sorc since day 1, and anytime I've said anything positive about the class, here comes 50 people just trashing thier own class. I remember in Mirkmire talking about what sets sorc can use, and coming up with Armor Master as something to look at...and getting thrashed even for suggesting it. And yet, it was widely used.
Over the years though, I've learned there's kind of a weird manipulation of facts on the forum. You almost can't talk positive about your favorite class in fear it'll be nerfed, and you have to constantly talk trash about your favorite class in hope you'll see a buff. And getting lost in the shuffle is any true, real, discussion about over/underperforming classes or skills.
That's why this list will never be looked on favorably in these forums. Too many players with agendas. Hence the salt. Good luck with any real discussion here!
I'm out
Victim complex plays a large part but at the same time, I believe because stamblade and magsorc overperformed for such a long time that some players just accepted that power level as ''standart'', and Are now having a hard time admitting they're on a more level playing field, that their class is not unplayable trash as they make it out to be.
What they don't understand is that Its not how high your class is listed that makes them fun to play. Winning is fun but if that was the only thing they cared about they would be switching to BiS class every patch instead of crying about nerfs. Most competitive players do just that. They switch classes , they don't come to forums and complain. They play everything. That is the price of competitiveness.
StamDK, my beloved main class, was considered S tier by the same players when I was complaining about it being bland and boring. I've been ridiculed for asking more stamina morphs cause ''How dare you ask for a stamina morphs when stamDk is already overperforming blah blah''. Now Its considered 2 tiers lower however my wish hasn't really changed. I don't think being S tier makes a class fun. I think having unique abilities that allow you to create your own playstyle, your own builds, is what makes this game fun, what makes me pick a certain class over others. Not how they're ranked in a list.3 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Luckylancer wrote: »Interesting list. Why stamdk is so low? He feels better generaly. Maybe 1 tier better. And how can stamden be S in solo? How can they kill someone better than others with last nerfs to stamden's best build? What is his superior kite options againts others?
Stamsorc so low, no wonders. They dont bring anything to group play and they are average at solo.
Stamdk lacks a reliable way of dealing with ranged attacks, wings don't count here as they come at the cost of survivability against other specs or offence as barspace is somewhat an issue.
Stamdk got it's rating mainly from a 1vX point of vier as it can give most classes a tough fight in 1v1s.
But in 1vX you lack the mobility to kite and thus run into situations where you can only tank but fail to kill people.
For an A tier spec they would have to have a good option of dealing with zergs or bring something outstanding with them which them.
Doesn’t this contradict Stamblade being in the top tier for solo builds? I mean, a stamblade has zero chance of taking out multiple players but they’re top tier because they can run away with cloak? Seems like Stamblade is being held to a different standard with the only answer being ‘because cloak’.
In general most rankings are fine, but Stamblade being too high and Stamplar too low stand out the most as ‘WTFs’. DK a little low too.Edited by Iskiab on October 27, 2019 1:27PMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten6 -
DeathPK✭✭✭JumpmanLane wrote: »I don’t get the point...as there’s no accounting for skill of the individual players playing the individual classes. Cheese aside, a great player could mop som dummy reading your lists and picking an S class.
can't believe this actually needs explaining but it is the forums after all. It is just a tier list on the classes that perform best in there categories (have the highest skill ceiling). It is legit in the title and in the post explaining what it is.3 -
SenpaiNFT✭✭✭✭Looking at the list it looks decent.
I’d make a couple changes, Stamplars are way stronger than your list suggests and Stamblades much worse.
Specifically
Solo play:
Stamwarden down a tier, Stamplar up a tier, Magsorc up a tier, Magblade down a tier, MagDK up a tier, Stamblade down a tier
Small Scale:
Stamblade down a tier
Large Scale:
Stamplar up two tiers, Stamsorc up a tier, Magwarden up a tier, Stamnecro up a tier, Magtemplar down a tier
Looks to me like the class reps are mostly small scale.I'd like to know how does magblades get to A in 6+ groups from B to 6- groups?
You should remove the small/large categories and just talk solo and group utility.
Crossed specs aren't so needed in 8+ groups since the number itself does the job and you also have enough ppl dedicated to each task, even tanks sometimes.
Anyway, good job for the visual😊
Lack of self healing, when you get into large groups it isn’t an issue. Magblades are strong in larger groups, you just have to drop your normal magblade preconceptions of how to spec.
Wait are you saying Stamplar is the best solo class? Better then Stamden and Stamblade? Interesting, very interesting.Ragnarock41 wrote: »I believe this is a good list overall. And some people seem very salty to hear their class is not as weak as they make it out to be.Why are people so salty about this list? Seems fairly accurate to me. And anyway why get mad over a list? If you have a different opinion share it and say why.
Isn't it weird?
Only in ESO can you say something good about a class, or even that you just like a class, and you'll have people who play that same class just trash it.
Only in ESO.
I find this mostly with sorcs. I've mained a sorc since day 1, and anytime I've said anything positive about the class, here comes 50 people just trashing thier own class. I remember in Mirkmire talking about what sets sorc can use, and coming up with Armor Master as something to look at...and getting thrashed even for suggesting it. And yet, it was widely used.
Over the years though, I've learned there's kind of a weird manipulation of facts on the forum. You almost can't talk positive about your favorite class in fear it'll be nerfed, and you have to constantly talk trash about your favorite class in hope you'll see a buff. And getting lost in the shuffle is any true, real, discussion about over/underperforming classes or skills.
That's why this list will never be looked on favorably in these forums. Too many players with agendas. Hence the salt. Good luck with any real discussion here!
I'm out
I agree 100%. When I play my OP spec I say it’s OP and not try to fall for the same trap.
Funny thing is it looks like it’s working. One of the best small scale and solo specs Stamplar isn’t top tier? Really? Bias is huge.
I would also like to know how many of those people play stamblade for BGs, small scale or large scale. The answer will be zero, and they play with zero of them. I guess as long as the Stamblades out there only run solo everything’s okay though.
Can you give reasons why stamplar should be S tier for solo and small-scale?
Best/2nd best spammable, top tier burst, stronger healing then other classes, good survivability, good healing.
A DK can be tankier, and a sorc burstier, but they’re pretty close to the total package. You just need some mag regen to dip into mag abilities.
RoR is about half the healing of vigor, jabs stronger than other spammables, great cc, strong delayed burst.leepalmer95 wrote: »Id still rank magplar higher solo, it has mobility in the form of mass aoe snares and has mega off heals with RoR + bubble + even sweep heal.
Stamplar same thing, its just got a nice amount of everything, burst when needed, jabs (which now work with onslaught), a self purge which acts as a nice hot + aoe snare, bubble if spec'd to use it,
Stamplar has some of the lowest mobility, virtually no counter to range classes, and burst that requires full focusing a single person for 6 seconds straight. You are both correct that it does have a strong spammable and decent healing thanks to purify (worse then both StamDk and Stamden, equal with Stamsorc using crit surge/power surge and Stamcro using mender, greater then Stamblade) but in terms of active survivability it’s mobility and lack of ranged defense cause it to drop off.
The above reasons are why Stamplar is not on par with Stamblade who’s survivability tool cloak counters all classes and when used effectively allows the player to pull off feats no other class can mimic, nor on par with Stamden who’s healing and defensive abilities allow them to lineup their extremely strong 1vX burst to again, pull off feats no other class can mimic.
Stamwarden burst is good but it’s also not as easy to line up. I don’t see your point about mobility, stamplar has a charge and can use speed like everyone else. Sure they don’t have streak or minor expedition like Stamsorcs, but no one does except sorcs. Basicly for mobility it’s tied for 2nd like every other class in the game.
If anything if you wanted to differentiate classes based on mobility DKs and Templars would be a tier above everyone else because of easy access to snares from passives.
You realize this is not a dueling tier list correct? Stamden burst is EXTREMELY easy to lineup in open world, MUCH easier then stamplars who have to full focus a single person amidst 1vx for 6 seconds.
Mobility is the ability to reposition in a fight. Stamsorc has the highest of all Stam classes with minor expedition and BoL, followed by Stamblade with cloak, followed by Stamden with built in major expedition. The bottom 3, stamplar, stamcro, and StamDk, have no reliable way to reposition amidst fighting without using outside skills -not class based- which often times force a specific playstyle (either speccing for more mag sustain for RaT, using DW and using quick cloak, or using bow).
I’m not really trying to argue; the list was compiled by a bunch of top tier players and is solid. If you disagree there’s probably an internal reason for it, but saying that Stamplar is better then Stamblade and Stamden for OW is not going to get your opinion taken seriously.Edited by SenpaiNFT on October 27, 2019 2:53PM8 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Looking at the list it looks decent.
I’d make a couple changes, Stamplars are way stronger than your list suggests and Stamblades much worse.
Specifically
Solo play:
Stamwarden down a tier, Stamplar up a tier, Magsorc up a tier, Magblade down a tier, MagDK up a tier, Stamblade down a tier
Small Scale:
Stamblade down a tier
Large Scale:
Stamplar up two tiers, Stamsorc up a tier, Magwarden up a tier, Stamnecro up a tier, Magtemplar down a tier
Looks to me like the class reps are mostly small scale.I'd like to know how does magblades get to A in 6+ groups from B to 6- groups?
You should remove the small/large categories and just talk solo and group utility.
Crossed specs aren't so needed in 8+ groups since the number itself does the job and you also have enough ppl dedicated to each task, even tanks sometimes.
Anyway, good job for the visual😊
Lack of self healing, when you get into large groups it isn’t an issue. Magblades are strong in larger groups, you just have to drop your normal magblade preconceptions of how to spec.
Wait are you saying Stamplar is the best solo class? Better then Stamden and Stamblade? Interesting, very interesting.Ragnarock41 wrote: »I believe this is a good list overall. And some people seem very salty to hear their class is not as weak as they make it out to be.Why are people so salty about this list? Seems fairly accurate to me. And anyway why get mad over a list? If you have a different opinion share it and say why.
Isn't it weird?
Only in ESO can you say something good about a class, or even that you just like a class, and you'll have people who play that same class just trash it.
Only in ESO.
I find this mostly with sorcs. I've mained a sorc since day 1, and anytime I've said anything positive about the class, here comes 50 people just trashing thier own class. I remember in Mirkmire talking about what sets sorc can use, and coming up with Armor Master as something to look at...and getting thrashed even for suggesting it. And yet, it was widely used.
Over the years though, I've learned there's kind of a weird manipulation of facts on the forum. You almost can't talk positive about your favorite class in fear it'll be nerfed, and you have to constantly talk trash about your favorite class in hope you'll see a buff. And getting lost in the shuffle is any true, real, discussion about over/underperforming classes or skills.
That's why this list will never be looked on favorably in these forums. Too many players with agendas. Hence the salt. Good luck with any real discussion here!
I'm out
I agree 100%. When I play my OP spec I say it’s OP and not try to fall for the same trap.
Funny thing is it looks like it’s working. One of the best small scale and solo specs Stamplar isn’t top tier? Really? Bias is huge.
I would also like to know how many of those people play stamblade for BGs, small scale or large scale. The answer will be zero, and they play with zero of them. I guess as long as the Stamblades out there only run solo everything’s okay though.
Can you give reasons why stamplar should be S tier for solo and small-scale?
Best/2nd best spammable, top tier burst, stronger healing then other classes, good survivability, good healing.
A DK can be tankier, and a sorc burstier, but they’re pretty close to the total package. You just need some mag regen to dip into mag abilities.
RoR is about half the healing of vigor, jabs stronger than other spammables, great cc, strong delayed burst.leepalmer95 wrote: »Id still rank magplar higher solo, it has mobility in the form of mass aoe snares and has mega off heals with RoR + bubble + even sweep heal.
Stamplar same thing, its just got a nice amount of everything, burst when needed, jabs (which now work with onslaught), a self purge which acts as a nice hot + aoe snare, bubble if spec'd to use it,
Stamplar has some of the lowest mobility, virtually no counter to range classes, and burst that requires full focusing a single person for 6 seconds straight. You are both correct that it does have a strong spammable and decent healing thanks to purify (worse then both StamDk and Stamden, equal with Stamsorc using crit surge/power surge and Stamcro using mender, greater then Stamblade) but in terms of active survivability it’s mobility and lack of ranged defense cause it to drop off.
The above reasons are why Stamplar is not on par with Stamblade who’s survivability tool cloak counters all classes and when used effectively allows the player to pull off feats no other class can mimic, nor on par with Stamden who’s healing and defensive abilities allow them to lineup their extremely strong 1vX burst to again, pull off feats no other class can mimic.
Stamwarden burst is good but it’s also not as easy to line up. I don’t see your point about mobility, stamplar has a charge and can use speed like everyone else. Sure they don’t have streak or minor expedition like Stamsorcs, but no one does except sorcs. Basicly for mobility it’s tied for 2nd like every other class in the game.
If anything if you wanted to differentiate classes based on mobility DKs and Templars would be a tier above everyone else because of easy access to snares from passives.
You realize this is not a dueling tier list correct? Stamden burst is EXTREMELY easy to lineup in open world, MUCH easier then stamplars who have to full focus a single person amidst 1vx for 6 seconds.
Mobility is the ability to reposition in a fight. Stamsorc has the highest of all Stam classes with minor expedition and BoL, followed by Stamblade with cloak, followed by Stamden with built in major expedition. The bottom 3, stamplar, stamcro, and StamDk, have no reliable way to reposition amidst fighting without using outside skills -not class based- which often times force a specific playstyle (either speccing for more mag sustain for RaT, using DW and using quick cloak, or using bow).
I’m not really trying to argue; the list was compiled by a bunch of top tier players and is solid. If you disagree there’s probably an internal reason for it, but saying that Stamplar is better then Stamblade and Stamden for OW is not going to get your opinion taken seriously.
Wait, wait, wait. So you’re saying that stamina classes should be judged solely based on the class abilities, most of which cost mag, and not take weapon skill lines into account?
Okay... putting stamwarden as top tier in every style of play and stamtemplar so low in the list looks like bias to me, but I do have a stamwarden I haven’t played in months.
Maybe it’s a difference between PC-NA and PC-EU. Are there any good stamplars on PC-EU? It might be a quality of player issue.Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten1 -
Rave the Histborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭itscompton wrote: »JumpmanLane wrote: »I don’t get the point...as there’s no accounting for skill of the individual players playing the individual classes. Cheese aside, a great player could mop som dummy reading your lists and picking an S class.
Kinda seems like you're just attempting to troll.....but in case you were being serious: This is hypothetical exercise which assumes all factors other than class are equal, including the opponents being of equal skill level and build optimization. While your "great player" using a C tier character might wipe "some dummy" using an S tier character, a player who is merely "good" or "very good" might win the fight because of the inherent advantage bestowed by the class.
"This is hypothetical exercise which assumes all factors other than class are equal, including the opponents being of equal skill level and build optimization."
So what you're saying is none of this is accurate in any way buy it's being called accurate2 -
Emmagoldman✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wont lie, I dont keep track anymore of the changes, so most of my builds aren't meta, but in general I think the list is generally correct.2 -
JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Victor_Blade wrote: »Random zerglings wouldn't know most of the people on that list. The tier list was made by one of the best(if not the best) players for each of those classes. I still have issues with that tier list too but the people who made the list play their class way better than you so shut up about not knowing them or go challenge them to a duel and see the skill difference yourself.
Or you and those guys could get a room lol. I know! Y’all could have a SPELLING CONTEST! Lol.Edited by JumpmanLane on October 27, 2019 6:22PM1 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
@kalunte It has nothing to do with being carry-able. Everyone in a ball group is being carried by each other. Thats how it works, because these kind of builds don't work , or are at least not optimal for solo or in small scale. Magblade dps effectiveness inflates in the role of harmony bombblade. The reason why they are allowed to perform is completely irrelevant. A magblade harmony bomber does more damage in a raid that a stamplar could ever do, for example.@Koensol please have a look at my post #64 in this topic and answer to this.
Being more carry-able does not make sense regarding ranking upgrade to A from B.
You asked for a reason, and you got it. Stop trying to pull in irrelevant aspects.
Edited by Koensol on October 27, 2019 6:44PM1 -
xylena_lazarow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭A lot of work went into those charts, what for though?PC/NA || CP/Cyro || RIP soft caps4 -
JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Interesting list, but really...how good you're opponent is...defines you. That's what's missing from many of the "observations" of PvP.
I think these guys are going at it being played at the highest level against the highest level, but it does matter. I run into a lot that I just destroy. Today, I purposely ran after guys that have destroyed me before. Some destroyed me again, but you learn from it and there is a huge disparity, but again. I think they accounted for that on this list.
I call B.S. lol. I got these folks going hard after low CP people. I got them avoiding fights with their buddies. I got them LOSIng around rocks and killing noobs.
I got them purposefully fighting scrubs outnumbered and calling it 1vXing and when they lose to folks who AREN’T scrubs...calling it “getting zerged down.”
I got them fighting gimp-fest duels and whining when they lose. “That’s cheese.” “You cant run this you can’t run that in a duel.”
I got them running around in Cyro with pocket heals and support. I got them running “group builds.”
I got them doing ANYTHING and EVERYTHING to bolster their fragile little egos...like making LISTS.
But hey, play how you want to. Yet, when the contest is Egomaniac vs a Lane, Jumpy came to get down! I’m here to crush lil egos. Catch Crush at it.
5 -
Dottzgaming✭✭✭✭✭Only change I'd personally make is swapping MagPlar with MagBlade on the solo tier list, otherwise I pretty much agree with the rest. Nice graphic too to showcase the tiers!0 -
Shaloknir✭✭✭JumpmanLane wrote: »Interesting list, but really...how good you're opponent is...defines you. That's what's missing from many of the "observations" of PvP.
I think these guys are going at it being played at the highest level against the highest level, but it does matter. I run into a lot that I just destroy. Today, I purposely ran after guys that have destroyed me before. Some destroyed me again, but you learn from it and there is a huge disparity, but again. I think they accounted for that on this list.
I call B.S. lol. I got these folks going hard after low CP people. I got them avoiding fights with their buddies. I got them LOSIng around rocks and killing noobs.
I got them purposefully fighting scrubs outnumbered and calling it 1vXing and when they lose to folks who AREN’T scrubs...calling it “getting zerged down.”
I got them fighting gimp-fest duels and whining when they lose. “That’s cheese.” “You cant run this you can’t run that in a duel.”
I got them running around in Cyro with pocket heals and support. I got them running “group builds.”
I got them doing ANYTHING and EVERYTHING to bolster their fragile little egos...like making LISTS.
But hey, play how you want to. Yet, when the contest is Egomaniac vs a Lane, Jumpy came to get down! I’m here to crush lil egos. Catch Crush at it.
Dude, chill. Its just a list :-)1 -
Moonsorrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭JumpmanLane wrote: »Interesting list, but really...how good you're opponent is...defines you. That's what's missing from many of the "observations" of PvP.
I think these guys are going at it being played at the highest level against the highest level, but it does matter. I run into a lot that I just destroy. Today, I purposely ran after guys that have destroyed me before. Some destroyed me again, but you learn from it and there is a huge disparity, but again. I think they accounted for that on this list.
I call B.S. lol. I got these folks going hard after low CP people. I got them avoiding fights with their buddies. I got them LOSIng around rocks and killing noobs.
I got them purposefully fighting scrubs outnumbered and calling it 1vXing and when they lose to folks who AREN’T scrubs...calling it “getting zerged down.”
I got them fighting gimp-fest duels and whining when they lose. “That’s cheese.” “You cant run this you can’t run that in a duel.”
I got them running around in Cyro with pocket heals and support. I got them running “group builds.”
I got them doing ANYTHING and EVERYTHING to bolster their fragile little egos...like making LISTS.
But hey, play how you want to. Yet, when the contest is Egomaniac vs a Lane, Jumpy came to get down! I’m here to crush lil egos. Catch Crush at it.
This was a great read when imagined Clubber Lang saying it while doing boxing sparring.
I like your entertaining style. 2 -
BaiterOfZergs✭✭✭✭✭Think a lot of people are confused by the listing because they’re speaking from a hypothetical perspective rather than experience. Just because you know the anatomy of the body doesn’t mean you’ll suddenly know how to perform surgery, things are different in actual practice.Zerg of House Smallscale, First of his name, wielder of Volendrung, battleground hero, Cyrodiil butcher, the swifft footed, OG of the Templars and first pvpers, defender of scrolls and baiter of zergs.1 -
SenpaiNFT✭✭✭✭Looking at the list it looks decent.
I’d make a couple changes, Stamplars are way stronger than your list suggests and Stamblades much worse.
Specifically
Solo play:
Stamwarden down a tier, Stamplar up a tier, Magsorc up a tier, Magblade down a tier, MagDK up a tier, Stamblade down a tier
Small Scale:
Stamblade down a tier
Large Scale:
Stamplar up two tiers, Stamsorc up a tier, Magwarden up a tier, Stamnecro up a tier, Magtemplar down a tier
Looks to me like the class reps are mostly small scale.I'd like to know how does magblades get to A in 6+ groups from B to 6- groups?
You should remove the small/large categories and just talk solo and group utility.
Crossed specs aren't so needed in 8+ groups since the number itself does the job and you also have enough ppl dedicated to each task, even tanks sometimes.
Anyway, good job for the visual😊
Lack of self healing, when you get into large groups it isn’t an issue. Magblades are strong in larger groups, you just have to drop your normal magblade preconceptions of how to spec.
Wait are you saying Stamplar is the best solo class? Better then Stamden and Stamblade? Interesting, very interesting.Ragnarock41 wrote: »I believe this is a good list overall. And some people seem very salty to hear their class is not as weak as they make it out to be.Why are people so salty about this list? Seems fairly accurate to me. And anyway why get mad over a list? If you have a different opinion share it and say why.
Isn't it weird?
Only in ESO can you say something good about a class, or even that you just like a class, and you'll have people who play that same class just trash it.
Only in ESO.
I find this mostly with sorcs. I've mained a sorc since day 1, and anytime I've said anything positive about the class, here comes 50 people just trashing thier own class. I remember in Mirkmire talking about what sets sorc can use, and coming up with Armor Master as something to look at...and getting thrashed even for suggesting it. And yet, it was widely used.
Over the years though, I've learned there's kind of a weird manipulation of facts on the forum. You almost can't talk positive about your favorite class in fear it'll be nerfed, and you have to constantly talk trash about your favorite class in hope you'll see a buff. And getting lost in the shuffle is any true, real, discussion about over/underperforming classes or skills.
That's why this list will never be looked on favorably in these forums. Too many players with agendas. Hence the salt. Good luck with any real discussion here!
I'm out
I agree 100%. When I play my OP spec I say it’s OP and not try to fall for the same trap.
Funny thing is it looks like it’s working. One of the best small scale and solo specs Stamplar isn’t top tier? Really? Bias is huge.
I would also like to know how many of those people play stamblade for BGs, small scale or large scale. The answer will be zero, and they play with zero of them. I guess as long as the Stamblades out there only run solo everything’s okay though.
Can you give reasons why stamplar should be S tier for solo and small-scale?
Best/2nd best spammable, top tier burst, stronger healing then other classes, good survivability, good healing.
A DK can be tankier, and a sorc burstier, but they’re pretty close to the total package. You just need some mag regen to dip into mag abilities.
RoR is about half the healing of vigor, jabs stronger than other spammables, great cc, strong delayed burst.leepalmer95 wrote: »Id still rank magplar higher solo, it has mobility in the form of mass aoe snares and has mega off heals with RoR + bubble + even sweep heal.
Stamplar same thing, its just got a nice amount of everything, burst when needed, jabs (which now work with onslaught), a self purge which acts as a nice hot + aoe snare, bubble if spec'd to use it,
Stamplar has some of the lowest mobility, virtually no counter to range classes, and burst that requires full focusing a single person for 6 seconds straight. You are both correct that it does have a strong spammable and decent healing thanks to purify (worse then both StamDk and Stamden, equal with Stamsorc using crit surge/power surge and Stamcro using mender, greater then Stamblade) but in terms of active survivability it’s mobility and lack of ranged defense cause it to drop off.
The above reasons are why Stamplar is not on par with Stamblade who’s survivability tool cloak counters all classes and when used effectively allows the player to pull off feats no other class can mimic, nor on par with Stamden who’s healing and defensive abilities allow them to lineup their extremely strong 1vX burst to again, pull off feats no other class can mimic.
Stamwarden burst is good but it’s also not as easy to line up. I don’t see your point about mobility, stamplar has a charge and can use speed like everyone else. Sure they don’t have streak or minor expedition like Stamsorcs, but no one does except sorcs. Basicly for mobility it’s tied for 2nd like every other class in the game.
If anything if you wanted to differentiate classes based on mobility DKs and Templars would be a tier above everyone else because of easy access to snares from passives.
You realize this is not a dueling tier list correct? Stamden burst is EXTREMELY easy to lineup in open world, MUCH easier then stamplars who have to full focus a single person amidst 1vx for 6 seconds.
Mobility is the ability to reposition in a fight. Stamsorc has the highest of all Stam classes with minor expedition and BoL, followed by Stamblade with cloak, followed by Stamden with built in major expedition. The bottom 3, stamplar, stamcro, and StamDk, have no reliable way to reposition amidst fighting without using outside skills -not class based- which often times force a specific playstyle (either speccing for more mag sustain for RaT, using DW and using quick cloak, or using bow).
I’m not really trying to argue; the list was compiled by a bunch of top tier players and is solid. If you disagree there’s probably an internal reason for it, but saying that Stamplar is better then Stamblade and Stamden for OW is not going to get your opinion taken seriously.
Wait, wait, wait. So you’re saying that stamina classes should be judged solely based on the class abilities, most of which cost mag, and not take weapon skill lines into account?
Okay... putting stamwarden as top tier in every style of play and stamtemplar so low in the list looks like bias to me, but I do have a stamwarden I haven’t played in months.
Maybe it’s a difference between PC-NA and PC-EU. Are there any good stamplars on PC-EU? It might be a quality of player issue.
Stamplar so low in the list? Huh? It’s literally A tier for Solo and S tier for Small-Scale, are you referring to the large group category? I don’t really need to explain why Stamden is far superior to Stamplar in large groups. As for your remark about weapon skill lines; no, nobody said that. What I was referring to is how, for the necessity of mobility, you are forced to either run DW or Bow on Stamplar StamDk and Stamcro, thus you cannot run SnB unless you want to be slow. Every good player worth their salt knows 2h is required on every legit stamina build, but the backbar plays a major role and Stamden, Stamsorc, and Stamblades can all elect to run WHATEVER they want on the backbar and still be mobile at the same time. Thus their mobility is >.1 -
JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭JumpmanLane wrote: »Interesting list, but really...how good you're opponent is...defines you. That's what's missing from many of the "observations" of PvP.
I think these guys are going at it being played at the highest level against the highest level, but it does matter. I run into a lot that I just destroy. Today, I purposely ran after guys that have destroyed me before. Some destroyed me again, but you learn from it and there is a huge disparity, but again. I think they accounted for that on this list.
I call B.S. lol. I got these folks going hard after low CP people. I got them avoiding fights with their buddies. I got them LOSIng around rocks and killing noobs.
I got them purposefully fighting scrubs outnumbered and calling it 1vXing and when they lose to folks who AREN’T scrubs...calling it “getting zerged down.”
I got them fighting gimp-fest duels and whining when they lose. “That’s cheese.” “You cant run this you can’t run that in a duel.”
I got them running around in Cyro with pocket heals and support. I got them running “group builds.”
I got them doing ANYTHING and EVERYTHING to bolster their fragile little egos...like making LISTS.
But hey, play how you want to. Yet, when the contest is Egomaniac vs a Lane, Jumpy came to get down! I’m here to crush lil egos. Catch Crush at it.
Dude, chill. Its just a list :-)
Ok! I awesomed that. I’m gonna chill hehehehe.Moonsorrow wrote: »JumpmanLane wrote: »Interesting list, but really...how good you're opponent is...defines you. That's what's missing from many of the "observations" of PvP.
I think these guys are going at it being played at the highest level against the highest level, but it does matter. I run into a lot that I just destroy. Today, I purposely ran after guys that have destroyed me before. Some destroyed me again, but you learn from it and there is a huge disparity, but again. I think they accounted for that on this list.
I call B.S. lol. I got these folks going hard after low CP people. I got them avoiding fights with their buddies. I got them LOSIng around rocks and killing noobs.
I got them purposefully fighting scrubs outnumbered and calling it 1vXing and when they lose to folks who AREN’T scrubs...calling it “getting zerged down.”
I got them fighting gimp-fest duels and whining when they lose. “That’s cheese.” “You cant run this you can’t run that in a duel.”
I got them running around in Cyro with pocket heals and support. I got them running “group builds.”
I got them doing ANYTHING and EVERYTHING to bolster their fragile little egos...like making LISTS.
But hey, play how you want to. Yet, when the contest is Egomaniac vs a Lane, Jumpy came to get down! I’m here to crush lil egos. Catch Crush at it.
This was a great read when imagined Clubber Lang saying it while doing boxing sparring.
I like your entertaining style.
Lol. I try!
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Heresyall✭✭✭✭@Iskiab EU probably has the best stamplar that is Jack215 also @kalunte I totally agree with magblade tiers and chose them with Cloakked.Since last patch Magnb can run ultra low magicka sustain since It only needs rapid regen to heal in solo + shade fix + snare immune.In group, Magnb needs path + ward ally to bring utility, that are 2 expensive skills and so magnb has to build way more sustain and way lower damage and has no sustainable aoe dmg.Also magblade healer got a big hit with springs nerf and soul siphon cast time. Above 6 ,sap lotus fan fear are rly strong and magnb doesn’t need sustain with Perfected false god+ can build full aoe dmg. That’s why solo is A smallscale is B and largescale A.-Heresya EP MagNB/AR 50-Hȩresya EP MagNB/AR 50-Lonely Player EP MagNB/AR 50-The Godblade DC MagNB/ AR 50-Useless Class EP MagNB/AR 50-Crippled Class AD MagNB/AR 50-The Serpent EP MagNB/ AR 50-Harrowing Reaper EP MagNB / AR 50-Lord Herrington EP MagDK/AR 47-Mind Terror EP MagNecro/AR 35[center-Soul Siphoner EP MagNB/AR 38]Trueflame1 -
kalunte✭✭✭✭✭Again, i get your points @Heresyall and @Koensol and i'm not advocating that magblade are good or bad.
just this:
"this section compares each spec to what they can bring to an organized group of 6+ people, the importance of X spec in Largescale group, what synergies it can bring to the group, how well it can support a massive group of peaple or how the classes offensive AOE focused builds compare to other classes builds built around same goal"
the description of the large scale doesnt say that it includes how well a class can be carryed. if so, well, every single class/spec can be granted a rank since they can mostly build any fancy way they want relying on others to carry them.
at least patch up the initial poster and you wont hear me anymore 1 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
I literally told you, everyone gets carried in large scale/ball groups. Why do you think most bad players stick in lfg zergs? That point is irrelevant. What matters is how well they perform in such scenarios. Magblade performs extremely well in full AoE bomb spec because of high ult uptime, AoE cc and innate snare removal/major evasion.Again, i get your points @Heresyall and @Koensol and i'm not advocating that magblade are good or bad.
just this:
"this section compares each spec to what they can bring to an organized group of 6+ people, the importance of X spec in Largescale group, what synergies it can bring to the group, how well it can support a massive group of peaple or how the classes offensive AOE focused builds compare to other classes builds built around same goal"
the description of the large scale doesnt say that it includes how well a class can be carryed. if so, well, every single class/spec can be granted a rank since they can mostly build any fancy way they want relying on others to carry them.
at least patch up the initial poster and you wont hear me anymore
These things work because it can be supported well by healers and buff/cleanse bots. That part isn't relevant though, because what matters is their performance. That's what is being looked at. If you look purely at performance in a 12 man raid, magblade dd outperforms a stamplar dd in the damage department by a landslide. Stamplar has no big radius AoE burst, which is why stamden is preferred for stam dd over stamplar, for example. Stamplar is better fitted for smaller scale. Even if they wanted to because of being carried, they couldn't. Magblade can, and thus I agree it is higher on the list.
I don't see what is so confusing for you.Edited by Koensol on October 28, 2019 6:58AM1 -
kalunte✭✭✭✭✭well, you just dont see as far as i see. when it comes to unreliable build 200% carried by the group size, magblade havent got any particular skill to snowball on it but soul harvest.
this could justify a higher rank. nothing more.
they are not getting more from being carried than any other class. this is my point. and therefore shouldnt get any higher rank. then wont bring more in.
anyway i let you the last word on this. i was actually looking for any info i wouldnt already have and it looks like beside a PoV matters, i wont learn anything down there
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Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Well, I get a feeling that many people here treat the list as a "calling for nerfs"...JumpmanLane wrote: »Interesting list, but really...how good you're opponent is...defines you. That's what's missing from many of the "observations" of PvP.
I think these guys are going at it being played at the highest level against the highest level, but it does matter. I run into a lot that I just destroy. Today, I purposely ran after guys that have destroyed me before. Some destroyed me again, but you learn from it and there is a huge disparity, but again. I think they accounted for that on this list.
I call B.S. lol. I got these folks going hard after low CP people. I got them avoiding fights with their buddies. I got them LOSIng around rocks and killing noobs.
I got them purposefully fighting scrubs outnumbered and calling it 1vXing and when they lose to folks who AREN’T scrubs...calling it “getting zerged down.”
I got them fighting gimp-fest duels and whining when they lose. “That’s cheese.” “You cant run this you can’t run that in a duel.”
I got them running around in Cyro with pocket heals and support. I got them running “group builds.”
I got them doing ANYTHING and EVERYTHING to bolster their fragile little egos...like making LISTS.
But hey, play how you want to. Yet, when the contest is Egomaniac vs a Lane, Jumpy came to get down! I’m here to crush lil egos. Catch Crush at it.
Dude, chill. Its just a list :-)
There are some things I kinda agree, but there are also things that are simply missleading.
Like stam nb being in S tier for solo pvp. I mean, I get it, they can cloak and escape (assuming you are fighting against potatoes, but if vs at least an avarge player, they will have cloak counter sloted).
But even if, being able to escape vs being able to win a fight are 2 different things. Besides, nb burst is quite tricky to land, and looking for example at mag sorc (that has way more reliable burst) beeing in a "A" tier kinda does not make sense. Especially since they can escape quite easliy too with streak. Personally I would move both stam nb & mag sorc to the middle spot between "S" and "A" tier or just simply move stam NB to "A" tier.Edited by Tommy_The_Gun on October 28, 2019 9:20AM3 -
evoniee✭✭✭✭magwarden large scale: B
meanwhile stamwarden : S
meanwhile stamsorc that will streak and stun entire group and negate: A1
