Patch 5.2.5 PvP Tierlist

BohnT2

Thogard wrote: »

This was for last patch yeah?

It's for Dragonhold

Elwendryll

Interesting list. And even more interesting comments of people trashing a tier list. Tier lists are useful, not absolute because the skill factor is more important, but they're still interesting. It's totally okay to disagree, but how can you trash someone for attempting to make a list with crossed sources xD

Nerftheforums

Vapirko wrote: »

Why are people so salty about this list? Seems fairly accurate to me. And anyway why get mad over a list? If you have a different opinion share it and say why.

Because ignorance on the matter and low education causes people to be aggressive even for a list in a videogame. And these people vote btw.

Lisutaris

Such lists are more or less garbage in a mmorpg like eso.
Why ? ESO is not competitive gaming where you can say every mag-warden or stamblade, ... is the same. Some play CP, some without. Tons of builds /sets / cp combinations.
Such lists are more interesting for games like LoL, Dota,.... -> where every class has the same skillset. 5 barslots - 5 skills - done.

Not being salty here, but imho such a list is nonsense.... wanting to give ESO the atmosphere of a competitve e-sports game... when it is not.

The point of being angry/mad/sad about such a list -> because of such "elitists, streamers, whoever" ... game devs "could" get the wrong idea about balancing out stuff.
If some1 is actively playing e-sports tournaments in any kind of competitive game (with high rank ofc) and also playing ESO PvP and gives his/her opinion... ok, then maybe I would consider it a valueable feedback.
But those are only eso pvp/streamers ... and they are sometimes not even as good as they want to be.

my 2 septims.

Rake

what about megazerg scale, like 24 ppl+

Lisutaris

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Why are people so salty about this list? Seems fairly accurate to me. And anyway why get mad over a list? If you have a different opinion share it and say why.

Because ignorance on the matter and low education causes people to be aggressive even for a list in a videogame. And these people vote btw.

Neither ignorant nor low educated. ... and also not aggressive .
Don't describe your own behaviour on the forums and say other ppl are like that.... thxies
(not accepting/liking that everybody has the right to vote is ... well... somehow ignorant?)

PureEnvelope35

Poor Mag Necro ;;

Iskiab

Kel wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I believe this is a good list overall. And some people seem very salty to hear their class is not as weak as they make it out to be.

Vapirko wrote: »

Why are people so salty about this list? Seems fairly accurate to me. And anyway why get mad over a list? If you have a different opinion share it and say why.

Isn't it weird?

Only in ESO can you say something good about a class, or even that you just like a class, and you'll have people who play that same class just trash it.

Only in ESO.

I find this mostly with sorcs. I've mained a sorc since day 1, and anytime I've said anything positive about the class, here comes 50 people just trashing thier own class. I remember in Mirkmire talking about what sets sorc can use, and coming up with Armor Master as something to look at...and getting thrashed even for suggesting it. And yet, it was widely used.

Over the years though, I've learned there's kind of a weird manipulation of facts on the forum. You almost can't talk positive about your favorite class in fear it'll be nerfed, and you have to constantly talk trash about your favorite class in hope you'll see a buff. And getting lost in the shuffle is any true, real, discussion about over/underperforming classes or skills.

That's why this list will never be looked on favorably in these forums. Too many players with agendas. Hence the salt. Good luck with any real discussion here!

I'm out

I agree 100%. When I play my OP spec I say it’s OP and not try to fall for the same trap.

Funny thing is it looks like it’s working. One of the best small scale and solo specs Stamplar isn’t top tier? Really? Bias is huge.

I would also like to know how many of those people play stamblade for BGs, small scale or large scale. The answer will be zero, and they play with zero of them. I guess as long as the Stamblades out there only run solo everything’s okay though.

BohnT2

Iskiab wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I believe this is a good list overall. And some people seem very salty to hear their class is not as weak as they make it out to be.

Vapirko wrote: »

Why are people so salty about this list? Seems fairly accurate to me. And anyway why get mad over a list? If you have a different opinion share it and say why.

Isn't it weird?

Only in ESO can you say something good about a class, or even that you just like a class, and you'll have people who play that same class just trash it.

Only in ESO.

I find this mostly with sorcs. I've mained a sorc since day 1, and anytime I've said anything positive about the class, here comes 50 people just trashing thier own class. I remember in Mirkmire talking about what sets sorc can use, and coming up with Armor Master as something to look at...and getting thrashed even for suggesting it. And yet, it was widely used.

Over the years though, I've learned there's kind of a weird manipulation of facts on the forum. You almost can't talk positive about your favorite class in fear it'll be nerfed, and you have to constantly talk trash about your favorite class in hope you'll see a buff. And getting lost in the shuffle is any true, real, discussion about over/underperforming classes or skills.

That's why this list will never be looked on favorably in these forums. Too many players with agendas. Hence the salt. Good luck with any real discussion here!

I'm out

I agree 100%. When I play my OP spec I say it’s OP and not try to fall for the same trap.

Funny thing is it looks like it’s working. One of the best small scale and solo specs Stamplar isn’t top tier? Really? Bias is huge.

I would also like to know how many of those people play stamblade for BGs, small scale or large scale. The answer will be zero, and they play with zero of them. I guess as long as the Stamblades out there only run solo everything’s okay though.

Can you give reasons why stamplar should be S tier for solo and small-scale?

MajBludd

@BohnT2 thank you

buttaface

Lisutaris wrote: »

Such lists are more or less garbage in a mmorpg like eso.
Why ? ESO is not competitive gaming where you can say every mag-warden or stamblade, ... is the same. Some play CP, some without. Tons of builds /sets / cp combinations.
Such lists are more interesting for games like LoL, Dota,.... -> where every class has the same skillset. 5 barslots - 5 skills - done.

Not being salty here, but imho such a list is nonsense.... wanting to give ESO the atmosphere of a competitve e-sports game... when it is not.

The point of being angry/mad/sad about such a list -> because of such "elitists, streamers, whoever" ... game devs "could" get the wrong idea about balancing out stuff.
If some1 is actively playing e-sports tournaments in any kind of competitive game (with high rank ofc) and also playing ESO PvP and gives his/her opinion... ok, then maybe I would consider it a valueable feedback.
But those are only eso pvp/streamers ... and they are sometimes not even as good as they want to be.

my 2 septims.

Couldn't agree more, ESO is being shaped from a couple of directions into something it will never be, some kind of hybrid MMO/elite tactical shooter. Nah.

They may be getting a clue on the publisher side because the dragons are exactly the kind of crowd pleaser they should be pouring resources into, not more and more grind treadmill "progression" content. Next, they need a SIMPLE PvP arena, 4v4 small maps, fast queue, no roles. Worked great in GW1. Then they need to strip all the gotcha "red lever, blue pad" stuff OUT of a % of the dungeons that reflects the player base. If X% of the player base is competitive raiders, then only X% of the content should be generated for that. I think they are leaving millions upon millions on the table.

tonemd

PureEnvelope35 wrote: »

Poor Mag Necro ;;

Seems to be the only thing on which everyone is in agreement

ku5h

Agree on everything. Maybe, just because of Marauders haste set and Purify crit, I would bump up solo MagPlar to line between A and B.

Master_Kas

Luckily the only experienced magblades I see is a duo&trio of them who focus down one player at a time

Then there is Heresya but he did always kick a** on magblade.

Rest of them are free AP for my dk

Iskiab

BohnT2 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I believe this is a good list overall. And some people seem very salty to hear their class is not as weak as they make it out to be.

Vapirko wrote: »

Why are people so salty about this list? Seems fairly accurate to me. And anyway why get mad over a list? If you have a different opinion share it and say why.

Isn't it weird?

Only in ESO can you say something good about a class, or even that you just like a class, and you'll have people who play that same class just trash it.

Only in ESO.

I find this mostly with sorcs. I've mained a sorc since day 1, and anytime I've said anything positive about the class, here comes 50 people just trashing thier own class. I remember in Mirkmire talking about what sets sorc can use, and coming up with Armor Master as something to look at...and getting thrashed even for suggesting it. And yet, it was widely used.

Over the years though, I've learned there's kind of a weird manipulation of facts on the forum. You almost can't talk positive about your favorite class in fear it'll be nerfed, and you have to constantly talk trash about your favorite class in hope you'll see a buff. And getting lost in the shuffle is any true, real, discussion about over/underperforming classes or skills.

That's why this list will never be looked on favorably in these forums. Too many players with agendas. Hence the salt. Good luck with any real discussion here!

I'm out

I agree 100%. When I play my OP spec I say it’s OP and not try to fall for the same trap.

Funny thing is it looks like it’s working. One of the best small scale and solo specs Stamplar isn’t top tier? Really? Bias is huge.

I would also like to know how many of those people play stamblade for BGs, small scale or large scale. The answer will be zero, and they play with zero of them. I guess as long as the Stamblades out there only run solo everything’s okay though.

Can you give reasons why stamplar should be S tier for solo and small-scale?

Best/2nd best spammable, top tier burst, stronger healing then other classes, good survivability, good healing.

A DK can be tankier, and a sorc burstier, but they’re pretty close to the total package. You just need some mag regen to dip into mag abilities.

RoR is about half the healing of vigor, jabs stronger than other spammables, great cc, strong delayed burst.

technohic

Not a bad list but I'd question the categories. Above 6 players is large scale? The way this game has become with faction stacks everywhere, Id almost say it should go up to 10.

That would lead to another point. It's also very over simplified. Classes in 20 AOTP would be different than 20 in Drac. And those are extremes as far as use whatever crappy build you want to run this exact build and that exists across the spectrum.

Again though; it's not a bad list for trying to just be simplified.

BohnT2

Iskiab wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I believe this is a good list overall. And some people seem very salty to hear their class is not as weak as they make it out to be.

Vapirko wrote: »

Why are people so salty about this list? Seems fairly accurate to me. And anyway why get mad over a list? If you have a different opinion share it and say why.

Isn't it weird?

Only in ESO can you say something good about a class, or even that you just like a class, and you'll have people who play that same class just trash it.

Only in ESO.

I find this mostly with sorcs. I've mained a sorc since day 1, and anytime I've said anything positive about the class, here comes 50 people just trashing thier own class. I remember in Mirkmire talking about what sets sorc can use, and coming up with Armor Master as something to look at...and getting thrashed even for suggesting it. And yet, it was widely used.

Over the years though, I've learned there's kind of a weird manipulation of facts on the forum. You almost can't talk positive about your favorite class in fear it'll be nerfed, and you have to constantly talk trash about your favorite class in hope you'll see a buff. And getting lost in the shuffle is any true, real, discussion about over/underperforming classes or skills.

That's why this list will never be looked on favorably in these forums. Too many players with agendas. Hence the salt. Good luck with any real discussion here!

I'm out

I agree 100%. When I play my OP spec I say it’s OP and not try to fall for the same trap.

Funny thing is it looks like it’s working. One of the best small scale and solo specs Stamplar isn’t top tier? Really? Bias is huge.

I would also like to know how many of those people play stamblade for BGs, small scale or large scale. The answer will be zero, and they play with zero of them. I guess as long as the Stamblades out there only run solo everything’s okay though.

Can you give reasons why stamplar should be S tier for solo and small-scale?

Best/2nd best spammable, top tier burst, stronger healing then other classes, good survivability, good healing.

A DK can be tankier, and a sorc burstier, but they’re pretty close to the total package. You just need some mag regen to dip into mag abilities.

RoR is about half the healing of vigor, jabs does double the damage of other spammables, great cc, strong delayed burst.

Our reasoning for not putting stamplar in S tier for solo was the following:
The class lacks distinct counters to ranged enemies thus is forced to choose fights where you have LoS available from the beginning and don't need to swap later on.
Also PotL becomes less powerful the more enemies you face due to shorter offensive windows.

Those disadvantages that other classes in S tier don't have were the reason why stamplar didn't make it into S tier

Iskiab

technohic wrote: »

Not a bad list but I'd question the categories. Above 6 players is large scale? The way this game has become with faction stacks everywhere, Id almost say it should go up to 10.

That would lead to another point. It's also very over simplified. Classes in 20 AOTP would be different than 20 in Drac. And those are extremes as far as use whatever crappy build you want to run this exact build and that exists across the spectrum.

Again though; it's not a bad list for trying to just be simplified.

Agreed, but I disagree about the class depending on guild though. Only noobs think X ability per class is required per class and don’t judge abilities within the context of the setting it’d be used. What I care most about is the ability of a class to adapt to different settings and still be able to be effective.

heng14rwb17_ESO

100 ENEMIES ARE GOING TO CAPTURE KEEP !
SEND IN THE S RANK PLAYERS NOW !
NOW !

thankyourat

This list isn’t that bad the grim focus change is a big change that should help nightblade be relevant again this patch. I would however still have magplar and stamdk ahead of magblade seeing as they are more complete classes. Magblade is boom or bust so in the right situation against the right opponents it can be almost impossible to deal with at the same time though it can be completely useless for solo play.

Another big issue that magblades have is sustain so in theory a solo magblade build is not going to have as much damage as a stam dk or magplar because you have to give up so much damage for sustain on a magblade. I see why magblade can be A tier because in some situations it is but often times it also dips down into C tier so I think a B tier rating would be solid. Stam dk should be A tier it’s unkillable if built right after the healing buffs and the sustain is so good you can basically build all damage. Very forgiving class to play and simple to use why still putting out some of the best results.

Edit I said stam dk should be S tier when I meant to say A tier.

Tryxus

Why is Magden the lowest mag spec for large scale?

BohnT2

Tryxus wrote: »

Why is Magden the lowest mag spec for large scale?

All other magspecs bring either offensive synergies which are very important in the current harmony meta or in the case of magnb don't have a stamina counterpart which can bring the same things to the raid as the magicka version (stamden being able to run perma frost aswell)

Iki

Anyone else feel like one tier list is missing from this post? Dueling.
Now when I look at solo-play tier list it`s obvious you guys had 1 vs X in mind, hence stamden and stamblade being high on list followed by sorcs. But if you consider strength and viability of class in context where escape is an option and valid tactic then it kinda excludes dueling. There is difference if kite and escape are options and allowed and when they are not.

DK for example is and has always been amongst top choices for dueling where escape isn`t an option, but yet in your list you place DK to B/C tiers despite being awesome class for 1vs 1.
It`s like you push both 1vsX and dueling under same category of "solo-play" despite them being 2 different contexts with different rules.Consider making another tier list dedicated for dueling.
Otherwise good job with opening post, there`s clearly lots of thinking and pvp experince behind those lists.

BohnT2

Iki wrote: »

Anyone else feel like one tier list is missing from this post? Dueling.
Now when I look at solo-play tier list it`s obvious you guys had 1 vs X in mind, hence stamden and stamblade being high on list followed by sorcs. But if you consider strength and viability of class in context where escape is an option and valid tactic then it kinda excludes dueling. There is difference if kite and escape are options and allowed and when they are not.

DK for example is and has always been amongst top choices for dueling where escape isn`t an option, but yet in your list you place DK to B/C tiers despite being awesome class for 1vs 1.
It`s like you push both 1vsX and dueling under same category of "solo-play" despite them being 2 different contexts with different rules.Consider making another tier list dedicated for dueling.
Otherwise good job with opening post, there`s clearly lots of thinking and pvp experince behind those lists.

Just to clear things up, we have decided not to make a dedicated duel list because if we use our measurement for the other tiers (each spec used at their full potential including build) any spec could be S tier as they could simply use a build that counters the enemy.

This is why in the solo list dueling (1v1) is also considered in some decisions but not used as an own category.

Zer0oo

Why is mag sorc so high up for small scale?
Personal i feel mag sorcs are more a selfish class and do not work that well in small grps unless they are also all sorcs.

Qbiken

Iki wrote: »

Anyone else feel like one tier list is missing from this post? Dueling.
Now when I look at solo-play tier list it`s obvious you guys had 1 vs X in mind, hence stamden and stamblade being high on list followed by sorcs. But if you consider strength and viability of class in context where escape is an option and valid tactic then it kinda excludes dueling. There is difference if kite and escape are options and allowed and when they are not.

DK for example is and has always been amongst top choices for dueling where escape isn`t an option, but yet in your list you place DK to B/C tiers despite being awesome class for 1vs 1.
It`s like you push both 1vsX and dueling under same category of "solo-play" despite them being 2 different contexts with different rules.Consider making another tier list dedicated for dueling.
Otherwise good job with opening post, there`s clearly lots of thinking and pvp experince behind those lists.

Because dueling is a worthless aspect to balance PvP from. I mean, you wouldn´t balance PvE from a vMA perspective would you? Sadly most PvP feedback on PTS is made from mainly dueling perspectives since there´s no proper way to test stuff from a Group vs Group perspective on PTS.

JumpmanLane

Vahrokh wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

I’ve come to the realization that coming to these forums looking for information is a waste of time lol. EVERYBODY is an expert but nobody KNOWS much of anything.

You could... you know... meet those guys in game and duel them.
Lose horribly and then ask them if they can give you help and suggestions.

Just saying...

Or these fools could catch me in Cyro and get MOPPED!

leepalmer95

Id still rank magplar higher solo, it has mobility in the form of mass aoe snares and has mega off heals with RoR + bubble + even sweep heal.

Stamplar same thing, its just got a nice amount of everything, burst when needed, jabs (which now work with onslaught), a self purge which acts as a nice hot + aoe snare, bubble if spec'd to use it,

VinayExile

we had a great laugh about this list yesterday.

NupidStoob

Look at all the people getting offended that you dare say "some of the best players". Let's be real the reason why people get angry at this list is cause of their insecurities~~ Stop hating kids.

Looks fairly accurate and some things are a bit controversial, but you explained why you put things the way you did. In all honesty it might a tad early for a tier list though.