Gem-Exclusive Mounts & Pets Aren't Supposed to be for Everyone.

Hanokihs

They're just gem-sinks for people who've hoarded the loot and now won't buy more crates to get the rewards they want each cycle. It's pretty obviously by design. That's why Twitch Drops slacked off compared to launch, and why there seems to be much more low-value trash in the crates these days (as opposed to higher-priced items that, when duplicates are dropped, more gems are rewarded); they want people who have gems to cash em in already so they can spend more money.

And now that we know these special pixels cost 300-500 gems, it's time to reopen my old gripe: they might as well go ahead and put a price tag on Radiant Apex mounts so people know what they're worth and can decide how hard they want to fling cash at the crate system each season. Hard prices open up possibilities. I may not have, say...1000 - 1500 gems to spend right now, but if an awesome RA shows up when I've amassed about 700, I'd be more willing to gamble my way toward filling in the blanks, because it beats the chance of "never, so go hug your wallet and cry." Just saying. It'd be nice if we could just outright buy those, I say, no matter how exorbitantly overpriced they end up being. Options are options. Outrage and pleading negotiations over prices can come later. But the option would be awesome.

VaranisArano

If ZOS were catering to everyone, they'd just list all items for sale on the Crown Store for crowns, no RNG needed.

Gem-exclusive items are for people who buy Crown Crates.

Which kinda sucks.

Hanokihs

VaranisArano wrote: »

If ZOS were catering to everyone, they'd just list all items for sale on the Crown Store for crowns, no RNG needed.

Gem-exclusive items are for people who buy Crown Crates.

You get that, and I get that, but apparently nobody mad about the prices got a post-it on their keyboard.

Goes to show, though - even if they put it up for sale in the Crown Store, it'd probably be much more expensive than anyone would ever want to pay. Welcome back to 4000 crown mounts. And I haven't even seen that blue-farting cat in months, despite the uproar it caused.

VaranisArano

Hanokihs wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

If ZOS were catering to everyone, they'd just list all items for sale on the Crown Store for crowns, no RNG needed.

Gem-exclusive items are for people who buy Crown Crates.

You get that, and I get that, but apparently nobody mad about the prices got a post-it on their keyboard.

Goes to show, though - even if they put it up for sale in the Crown Store, it'd probably be much more expensive than anyone would ever want to pay. Welcome back to 4000 crown mounts. And I haven't even seen that blue-farting cat in months, despite the uproar it caused.

Maybe. Maybe not.

There's nothing very special about the mount and the pet, just that ZOS decided these needed to be sold for gems as a gem-sink. So the prices don't need to be super high, unless ZOS decides to milk the "whales" by creating the impression of exclusivity.

There's also a major difference between spending crowns, even a ton of crowns, for a certain purchase vs spending an uncertain but probably large amount of crowns trying to get enough gems to get an exclusive item.

Gem exclusives make perfect economic sense for ZOS, and most of the complainers understand that that. We just also understand that it really sucks for consumers over and above the general suckitude of Crown Crates.

Raideen

Every time someone makes an excuse for ZO$ and their bad practices, a little Alfiq dies.

Hanokihs

VaranisArano wrote: »

Hanokihs wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

If ZOS were catering to everyone, they'd just list all items for sale on the Crown Store for crowns, no RNG needed.

Gem-exclusive items are for people who buy Crown Crates.

You get that, and I get that, but apparently nobody mad about the prices got a post-it on their keyboard.

Goes to show, though - even if they put it up for sale in the Crown Store, it'd probably be much more expensive than anyone would ever want to pay. Welcome back to 4000 crown mounts. And I haven't even seen that blue-farting cat in months, despite the uproar it caused.

Maybe. Maybe not.

There's nothing very special about the mount and the pet, just that ZOS decided these needed to be sold for gems as a gem-sink. So the prices don't need to be super high, unless ZOS decides to milk the "whales" by creating the impression of exclusivity.

There's also a major difference between spending crowns, even a ton of crowns, for a certain purchase vs spending an uncertain but probably large amount of crowns trying to get enough gems to get an exclusive item.

Gem exclusives make perfect economic sense for ZOS, and most of the complainers understand that that. We just also understand that it really sucks for consumers over and above the general suckitude of Crown Crates.

It sucks, yes, but ZoS is anything except unpredictable.

The prices don't need to be super high, but they probably will be. Because they have this new system all but guaranteed to make them more money, right? I mean, plenty of people would rather buy outright, myself probably included depending on my disposable income at the given time, but if the crate thing wasn't working for ZoS behind the scenes, we'd see a lot more variety. As it stands, all they seem to want to put in the actual Crown Store is motif books or skills/character utilities.

As a company, they'd be pretty stupid to do a thing that makes them less money. Even if it makes a few people happier for a little while, everyone knows that players are fairweather friends to game companies. Those very same people will still be jumping down their throats the next time they're upset about something, so in a situation where you can't please everyone, and will inevitably anger everyone at least once, you may as well bet on your own bank.

I mean, I agree that it sucks. But it's the system we have, and they have glaringly obvious reasons for it: Like I said in the OP, they want people to cash in their gems. The holidays are also coming, so they want people to spend money on Crowns for Crates now, rather than later, when things will be cheaper with the holiday crown sale plenty of people anticipate and save up for. Plus, crates now go on sale at the end of their cycles, so people can stock up on gems at cheaper cost as well. ZoS is just trying to circumvent that, by kicking out a few things that might entice some emptying of pockets at a time more profitable for them. They're not just doing it to twiddle their mustaches; they want us to finance the purchase of some glamorously fancy wax.

Elsonso

VaranisArano wrote: »

If ZOS were catering to everyone, they'd just list all items for sale on the Crown Store for crowns, no RNG needed.

Gem-exclusive items are for people who buy Crown Crates.

Which kinda sucks.

I have a different perspective. They are not for people who buy Crown Crates. They are to encourage people to buy more Crown Crates than they need, so as to create a pool of Gems large enough to buy the Senche-Rat.

Raideen wrote: »

Every time someone makes an excuse for ZO$ and their bad practices, a little Alfiq dies.

This honestly made me laugh. Well played!

Araneae6537

Well la-di-da. Are you sure you don’t want them gold-plated and sparkly? Someone might not notice your disposable income!

Seriously, I wouldn’t care about exorbitantly priced and Gem-exclusive mounts if only there were more available for Crowns or even gold. I appreciate the ESO+ specials but outside of that, I’m sad I don’t get different things to browse and buy in the Crown store.

VaranisArano

lordrichter wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

If ZOS were catering to everyone, they'd just list all items for sale on the Crown Store for crowns, no RNG needed.

Gem-exclusive items are for people who buy Crown Crates.

Which kinda sucks.

I have a different perspective. They are not for people who buy Crown Crates. They are to encourage people to buy more Crown Crates than they need, so as to create a pool of Gems large enough to buy the Senche-Rat.

Raideen wrote: »

Every time someone makes an excuse for ZO$ and their bad practices, a little Alfiq dies.

This honestly made me laugh. Well played!

Its both a gem sink and a marketing ploy.

Its mostly to pull extra gems out of the population, which are largely obtained from players buying lots of Crown Crates, but also from Twitch Crates and the now much rarer free crates. ZOS needs these periodic gem sinks so players who buy lots of Crown Crates have to buy more crates each new season instead of just buying regular crate items with the gems they already have.

Its also to entice players who don't have a lot of gems sitting to buy Crown Crates to get enough, or players who have gems to buy more crates to get more gems.

Its a win-win situation for ZOS.

Elsonso

VaranisArano wrote: »

Its a win-win situation for ZOS.

Of that, there is no doubt. The question is whether it is enough of a win for them.

Gem Exclusives were introduced a year ago. It is time for them to take things up a notch. I am wondering what it will be.

Hanokihs

ErinM31 wrote: »

Well la-di-da. Are you sure you don’t want them gold-plated and sparkly? Someone might not notice your disposable income!

Seriously, I wouldn’t care about exorbitantly priced and Gem-exclusive mounts if only there were more available for Crowns or even gold. I appreciate the ESO+ specials but outside of that, I’m sad I don’t get different things to browse and buy in the Crown store.

Honestly, I want them to be purple-plated and sparkly; then I'd have been willing to jump on it. Violet and magenta are seriously undervalued around these parts; my fabulously purple mage is a sad, thoroughly unaccessorized boi.

Anyway, yeah, they don't care if people are unhappy. They just want players to dump their stashes. Every 800 gems tossed away is 800 gems toward another crate bundle purchase; it's the only thing that matters right now.

lordrichter wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Its a win-win situation for ZOS.

Of that, there is no doubt. The question is whether it is enough of a win for them.

Gem Exclusives were introduced a year ago. It is time for them to take things up a notch. I am wondering what it will be.

I've been expecting Gem-only houses for a while now; still waiting for them to bring that hammer down.

SipofMaim

VaranisArano wrote: »

Gem exclusives make perfect economic sense for ZOS, and most of the complainers understand that that. We just also understand that it really sucks for consumers over and above the general suckitude of Crown Crates.

^ That. It's not all boohoo, I wanted the shiny thing and can't have it. Some of it is just plain disgust.

Araneae6537

Hanokihs wrote: »

ErinM31 wrote: »

Well la-di-da. Are you sure you don’t want them gold-plated and sparkly? Someone might not notice your disposable income!

Seriously, I wouldn’t care about exorbitantly priced and Gem-exclusive mounts if only there were more available for Crowns or even gold. I appreciate the ESO+ specials but outside of that, I’m sad I don’t get different things to browse and buy in the Crown store.

Honestly, I want them to be purple-plated and sparkly; then I'd have been willing to jump on it. Violet and magenta are seriously undervalued around these parts; my fabulously purple mage is a sad, thoroughly unaccessorized boi.

Anyway, yeah, they don't care if people are unhappy. They just want players to dump their stashes. Every 800 gems tossed away is 800 gems toward another crate bundle purchase; it's the only thing that matters right now.

lordrichter wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Its a win-win situation for ZOS.

Of that, there is no doubt. The question is whether it is enough of a win for them.

Gem Exclusives were introduced a year ago. It is time for them to take things up a notch. I am wondering what it will be.

I've been expecting Gem-only houses for a while now; still waiting for them to bring that hammer down.

Now THAT would seriously me off!!!
If they made houses or even long-requested furnishings Gem only... I have no rational reason to say it would be even worse but it would certainly feel much worse to me...

Raideen

lordrichter wrote: »

This honestly made me laugh. Well played!

We love Alfiq. We must think of the Alfiq.

TelvanniWizard

Scam crates, and everything revolving around them, is a scam.

InvictusApollo

VaranisArano wrote: »

If ZOS were catering to everyone, they'd just list all items for sale on the Crown Store for crowns, no RNG needed.

Gem-exclusive items are for people who buy Crown Crates.

Which kinda sucks.

And Crown Crates are for people who are prone to have gambling problem.

Kittytravel

ErinM31 wrote: »

Well la-di-da. Are you sure you don’t want them gold-plated and sparkly? Someone might not notice your disposable income!

Seriously, I wouldn’t care about exorbitantly priced and Gem-exclusive mounts if only there were more available for Crowns or even gold. I appreciate the ESO+ specials but outside of that, I’m sad I don’t get different things to browse and buy in the Crown store.

Seriously this... Like honestly ZOS remember this guy? Been in the crown store for years now?



Just paint him in panda colors, polar bear, hell paint him pink and mark him down to 800 crowns and they will sell like hot cakes even if it is just a stupid recolor. Just recolor stuff and mark them lower, you'll sell more and people who are obsessed with collecting mounts will buy em all just cause it's "cheap". 8$ for a fake digital plain bear mount is a lot more justifiable than 18$.

peacenote

I **hate** the gem exclusives. And, as I have said multiple times elsewhere, the apex mounts.

Both concepts insult the community, imo, since gems were introduced supposedly as a balance so folks could work towards purchasing items they didn't get in the Crown Crates.

Items coming out of the crates that can't be purchased with gems? Fail. Items that can be purchased with gems that aren't winnable via crates? Also fail.

I understand how this evolved, and I enjoy the Crown Crates. Can't do anything about the apex mounts but we CAN boycott the gem exclusives. Which I do, especially after this latest round of prices.

I do feel bad for the artists of the items when this happens as I don't think they drive these decisions and more people could enjoy their work if this stuff was available for regular crowns and/or featured in Crown Crates. And I hope these items pop up later under these circumstances (non-gem pricing) later. Like how some older Crown Store items pop up in Crown Crates...

LadyAstrum

The crown crate culture is bad enough, but putting things behind gems in such a way is taking the biscuit. Keep em'! Please...keep your ugly mount and pet, they're not worth the gems in my opinion. I honestly think ZoS should get rid of the sub...I mean surely they make enough money from all the crane crates.

Michae

I see no reason why they shouldn't be for everyone. I know why they made it so, but I disagree with the notion of exclusivity and gem sinks.

And the mount isn't really that good looking either, and I'm not talking about the lack of sparkles. The texture seems lower res than the original that was added to Elsweyr CE, it's much too bright and the shading makes it look all wooly like. Not worth even 100 gems if you ask me. But I'm sure there are people that got it anyway.

Here's a comparison, a little low res but it's hard to zoom in on your mount in this game.

StormChaser3000

Michae wrote: »

I see no reason why they shouldn't be for everyone. I know why they made it so, but I disagree with the notion of exclusivity and gem sinks.

And the mount isn't really that good looking either, and I'm not talking about the lack of sparkles. The texture seems lower res than the original that was added to Elsweyr CE, it's much too bright and the shading makes it look all wooly like. Not worth even 100 gems if you ask me. But I'm sure there are people that got it anyway.

Here's a comparison, a little low res but it's hard to zoom in on your mount in this game.

Personally I got the opposite impression about textures. The old skin has somewhat blurry face. The new one looks very sharp to me.

Michae

StormChaser3000 wrote: »

Michae wrote: »

I see no reason why they shouldn't be for everyone. I know why they made it so, but I disagree with the notion of exclusivity and gem sinks.

And the mount isn't really that good looking either, and I'm not talking about the lack of sparkles. The texture seems lower res than the original that was added to Elsweyr CE, it's much too bright and the shading makes it look all wooly like. Not worth even 100 gems if you ask me. But I'm sure there are people that got it anyway.

Here's a comparison, a little low res but it's hard to zoom in on your mount in this game.

Personally I got the opposite impression about textures. The old skin has somewhat blurry face. The new one looks very sharp to me.

Sure, to each their own. But I'm curious whether it looks the same on your rig ir is this just a taste thing. Can you post a pic? Does it look the same for you on my pictures? For me the old one is pretty sharp and the face has a lot of detail. On the new one the detail on the face is masked by it's brightness (maybe it's bloom thing?) and neck and legs just look awful. They are bumpy and also too bright, they don't mesh with the enviroment at all. But hey, maybe it's intentional, they didn't add sparkles so they just made it in loud colours instead so it stands out.

StormChaser3000

@Michae
Idk, maybe that's something related to how textured render in this game. Here is how I see other players on the old mount ingame (I don't have the old version, so I had to ask someone to summon it and pose). I will relog later and actually check other types of mounts, but I don't remember seeing anyone having such blurry ones. Also, the armor and the rider looked absolutely sharp and normal.


Here is how the new mount renders for me.


And here is a comparison with an NPC, which looks much sharper than summoned mount of the same skin. Idk, maybe owners of this skin see them as that....


They can't be actually directly compared since it turns out that they aren't just reskins. The location and length of chest, neck, and face fluff is somewhat different. In some areas that fluff can create an illusion of sharper texture.

Michae

@StormChaser3000
Ok, I'm gonna take back what I said, the new one is not a reskin.

Still, I like the old one better, on your second screenshot you can see it has more detail on the "beard" and really, those textures look oposite on my setup, sharp on brown cat and blurry on orange one. The new one isn't terrible, I'd love to get it but it's not worth 500 gems for me. What's your take on that price?

Fischblut

The location and length of chest, neck, and face fluff is somewhat different.

The only screenshot of both mounts together which I have so far:



They have same bodies, but the fluff and different texture make them seem... diffferent Normally senche-raht hold their heads high and proud. But senche-raht as a mount doesn't - it seems that a saddle and a rider on their back can be the reason.

Here is how I see other players on the old mount ingame (I don't have the old version, so I had to ask someone to summon it and pose).

All mounts of other players have lower resolution textures by default; I don't think it was always like this, but few months ago I started noticing it while looking at nearby players on their mounts. In crowded areas other player' models also load in lower textures, but when I look at them for few seconds, their textures change to high resolution - but their mounts still appear at lower resoution. I've seen somewhere how people edit the settings file to make the game load all textures everywhere on the highest resolution, but I haven't tried it myself to see if it helps with this particular problem.

I have a different perspective. They are not for people who buy Crown Crates. They are to encourage people to buy more Crown Crates than they need, so as to create a pool of Gems large enough to buy the Senche-Rat.

If I see a mount which interests me, I think if I like it enough to justify the price. I consider the look, effects, voice.

So far there was only one gem-exclusive mount which would make me open crates just to get gems for it - Frost Atronach sabre cat. I fell in love with preview picture of it and was looking at it every day since we got it datamined Cool look with cool matching armor. But when it arrived in game, I was sad - it had ordinary senche voice with almost no edits. It had no summon animation and it's roar was not impressive. But as I loved the look + this mount has some effects, I bought it. I ride this sabre cat when I feel the need for some special but silent mount.

Can't do anything about the apex mounts but we CAN boycott the gem exclusives. Which I do, especially after this latest round of prices.

These 4 mounts have some flaws which can't justify their high price... Simple/lazy voices, weak/unfinished effects (and in case of senche-raht, it's just a recolor of ordinary mount, 100 or maximum 200 gems worth). But every one of them had something which made them worth it for me
Gloam wolf pup was (almost?) perfect creation, and the cheapest

StormChaser3000

Michae wrote: »

The new one isn't terrible, I'd love to get it but it's not worth 500 gems for me. What's your take on that price?

I have mixed feelings. The $ price is ridiculous. But its comparable price to apex mounts is fair. To me it looks better than apexes from most crate seasons.

I would never blow that much real money for crates to get 500 gems.

I got it only because:
1) I had a big stash of gems (I like gold trading in-game).
2) I love its design.
3) There was nothing interesting datamined for the near future.

Fischblut wrote: »

Gloam wolf pup was (almost?) perfect creation, and the cheapest

The Gloam Wolf is my favorite mount in the game. I'd change its special effect a bit, but otherwise it's awesome. The pup is fun too, though I usually prefer to travel with nixads.

Jhalin

Hanokihs wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

If ZOS were catering to everyone, they'd just list all items for sale on the Crown Store for crowns, no RNG needed.

Gem-exclusive items are for people who buy Crown Crates.

You get that, and I get that, but apparently nobody mad about the prices got a post-it on their keyboard.

Goes to show, though - even if they put it up for sale in the Crown Store, it'd probably be much more expensive than anyone would ever want to pay. Welcome back to 4000 crown mounts. And I haven't even seen that blue-farting cat in months, despite the uproar it caused.

Gem mounts are the equivalent of $150 minimum, even assuming high gem payout ratios per crate, and assuming you buy crowns in bulk.

That’s *** absurd

xeha_arwen11

Hanokihs wrote: »

They're just gem-sinks for people who've hoarded the loot and now won't buy more crates to get the rewards they want each cycle. It's pretty obviously by design. That's why Twitch Drops slacked off compared to launch, and why there seems to be much more low-value trash in the crates these days (as opposed to higher-priced items that, when duplicates are dropped, more gems are rewarded); they want people who have gems to cash em in already so they can spend more money.

And now that we know these special pixels cost 300-500 gems, it's time to reopen my old gripe: they might as well go ahead and put a price tag on Radiant Apex mounts so people know what they're worth and can decide how hard they want to fling cash at the crate system each season. Hard prices open up possibilities. I may not have, say...1000 - 1500 gems to spend right now, but if an awesome RA shows up when I've amassed about 700, I'd be more willing to gamble my way toward filling in the blanks, because it beats the chance of "never, so go hug your wallet and cry." Just saying. It'd be nice if we could just outright buy those, I say, no matter how exorbitantly overpriced they end up being. Options are options. Outrage and pleading negotiations over prices can come later. But the option would be awesome.

I purchase crown crates with in-game gold by purchasing crowns from guild members. I do this since it has been stated by ZOS employees that it isn't against TOS and I've even been refunded gold by a ZOS employee when a crown scammer stole my gold once. I'm specifying this because I would never pay real money for what I'm about to say.

By spending gold instead of real money, I once purchased what is translated as 1000 dollars worth of psijic crown crates.
I never got a radiant apex mount.

I cannot imagine someone paying 1000 dollars of real money on crown crates in the first place, and then not getting a radiant apex to top it off. This system is DISGUSTING and the extreme monetization of every aspect of this game and others like it has made me lose every single shred of respect I ever had for this game and its ilk.

Starlock

xeha_arwen11 wrote: »

I cannot imagine someone paying 1000 dollars of real money on crown crates in the first place, and then not getting a radiant apex to top it off. This system is DISGUSTING and the extreme monetization of every aspect of this game and others like it has made me lose every single shred of respect I ever had for this game and its ilk.

Mobile gaming - and its monetization models infecting full-priced games - is the worst thing to ever happen to the industry. It's gone from benign hobby to racket within a console generation.

The good news is that there are still plenty of developers who remember what it means to make a good video game instead of a racket. I'm particularly intrigued by the recent announcement that the original creators of the Elder Scrolls universe have founded OnceLost Games and are working on a new project. That, and we have things like the Outer Worlds and Wasteland 3 coming down the pipeline.

Hanokihs

xeha_arwen11 wrote: »

Hanokihs wrote: »

They're just gem-sinks for people who've hoarded the loot and now won't buy more crates to get the rewards they want each cycle. It's pretty obviously by design. That's why Twitch Drops slacked off compared to launch, and why there seems to be much more low-value trash in the crates these days (as opposed to higher-priced items that, when duplicates are dropped, more gems are rewarded); they want people who have gems to cash em in already so they can spend more money.

And now that we know these special pixels cost 300-500 gems, it's time to reopen my old gripe: they might as well go ahead and put a price tag on Radiant Apex mounts so people know what they're worth and can decide how hard they want to fling cash at the crate system each season. Hard prices open up possibilities. I may not have, say...1000 - 1500 gems to spend right now, but if an awesome RA shows up when I've amassed about 700, I'd be more willing to gamble my way toward filling in the blanks, because it beats the chance of "never, so go hug your wallet and cry." Just saying. It'd be nice if we could just outright buy those, I say, no matter how exorbitantly overpriced they end up being. Options are options. Outrage and pleading negotiations over prices can come later. But the option would be awesome.

I purchase crown crates with in-game gold by purchasing crowns from guild members. I do this since it has been stated by ZOS employees that it isn't against TOS and I've even been refunded gold by a ZOS employee when a crown scammer stole my gold once. I'm specifying this because I would never pay real money for what I'm about to say.

By spending gold instead of real money, I once purchased what is translated as 1000 dollars worth of psijic crown crates.
I never got a radiant apex mount.

I cannot imagine someone paying 1000 dollars of real money on crown crates in the first place, and then not getting a radiant apex to top it off. This system is DISGUSTING and the extreme monetization of every aspect of this game and others like it has made me lose every single shred of respect I ever had for this game and its ilk.

I mean, technically they did. One or several people selling $1000 in crates is not really different than one extra whale doing it.

A friend of mine spent $1100 to get the plague horse. She was trying to boost her credit score anyway, so I guess it's whatever, but still. That's what I'd consider the typical chunk of change required. Egregiously excessive, sure, but the odds clearly favor Pacrooti.

Michae

Wow, 1000$ and no mount? That's really unlucky. I got 45 crates last season (spare crowns from sub) and got one radiant apex mount and two apex ones. I never got that much crates before so I wouldn't really know what's the drop rate usually.