Thoughts on New moon acolyte set replacing majority of damage sets next patch?

Commancho

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Uff. This again.

Battle Field acrobats grant's 6% cost reduction. NMA curses you with 5% cost increase. It has the drawback of nearly an entire 5 piece set bonus.

If you simply swap whatever damage set you're using for NMA and can still sustain just fine you were already oversustaining.

Compare it to hundings. You need cushion the resource strain, e.g. by swapping a dmg glyph with a regen glyph.

First of all nobody uses battlefield acrobat, because it's a garbage set which brings me to the next point. This set grants you raw 600 weapon spell power for 5% increased cost, 1.5k penetration and 833 crit. Without any proc conditions or limited time except 5% costs. 600 spell power gives 20% more power than Molag Kena which increases cost more than 20% and it's twice as strong as Hunding/Julianos. I can only suspect that this set is one of the reasons why they nerf werewolves next patch as you don't need sustain to spam light attacks.

So what is 5% increased cost when sustain in this game reaches a roof tops?

From PVE trial side - sustain problem is not existing problem. You get synergies every few seconds. I don't even have a sustain problems on my magDK. This problem might occuring in 4-man dungeons, especialy PUGs, but for trials this set will be BiS togheter with Mother's Sorrow. It RATHER won't replace sets for stamina classes (Releq, Lokke), but we will see.

From PVP side - it will be not only a perfect ganger set, but I'm going to use it as replacement for Spell Strategist or Spinner. Their equivalents in stam classes will be Spriggan and....? There is no such a set for stam class which gives so much raw power right now. I won't even mention that you can craft a heavy armor version...

starkerealm

I didn't say it was your fault.

Thogard

This is an inefficient set for anyone other than a pure gank build.

If you have a single line of regen or cost reduction in your jewelry, don’t use this set.

Commancho

Thogard wrote: »

This is an inefficient set for anyone other than a pure gank build.

If you have a single line of regen or cost reduction in your jewelry, don’t use this set.

Everyone runs at least one sustain set in PVP anyway unless they go full glass cannon. Especialy when you consider that Brass gets nerfed next patch. Everyone will run sustain set + Akolyte. Simple as that. It will get nerfed after few months. I know it, you know it, everyone with common sense knows it. Am I happy about it? Nope. Because I know that ZoS overnerfs things, because combat designers are bunch of amateurs.

redlink1979

Probably it won't replace most of dps sets as you might think.
Most people would probably rather choose Law of Julianos, for example, because it does not have any downside like the 5% cost increase to it.

"The set performs very well overall, but the question is, is it really better than any of the current options we already have. I did some tests on a Magicka Sorcerer (Dragonhold PTS) on a 21 Million Iron Atronach Target Dummy (that has all raid buffs). I used Perfected False God's Devotion and Zaan as the base sets for this test. What I did next was front bar either Mother's Sorrow which is the standard set used in all the current builds, or I front bared the New Moon Acolyte set instead to see the difference. When I used The New Moon Acolyte set, I removed my 10 points in the Spell Erosion Perk from the Champion Points, because we already have more Spell Penetration from the New Moon Acolyte Set. I used the Shadow Mundus Stone in both the tests.

As you can see both tests are fairly close, resulting in almost no difference at all in terms of DPS due to error margin and RNG during DPS Tests. Now the downside New Moon Acolyte brings with us is the extra 5% cost increase that a lot of players seem to forget. The build I used is very front bar focused, therefore we did not spend a lot of time on the back bar where the 5% cost increase did not apply because we front bared the set only.

Conclusion: Having almost no DPS difference to Mother’s Sorrow and the extra 5% cost increase that comes along with the New Moon Acolyte set, it is simply not worth using it currently. The only argument standing for it is that it can be crafted, whereas Mother’s Sorrow has to be either bought or farmed in the Deshaan Overland Zone. But even then most people would probably rather choose Law of Julianos because it does not have any downside like the 5% cost increase to it."

https://alcasthq.com/eso-new-moon-acolyte-set-guide/

Commancho

redlink1979 wrote: »

" I used Perfected False God's Devotion and Zaan as the base sets for this test.

Try Mother Sorrow with Moon Acolyte The problem of Alcast is that he suggest same builds for both 4-man dungeons and 12-man trials, while sustain in these is a totally diffrent story.

redlink1979

Commancho wrote: »

redlink1979 wrote: »

" I used Perfected False God's Devotion and Zaan as the base sets for this test.

Try Mother Sorrow with Moon Acolyte The problem of Alcast is that he suggest same builds for both 4-man dungeons and 12-man trials, while sustain in these is a totally diffrent story.

I haven't tried this so far.
But with 2 crit sets won't the build struggle with pool resource? We know abilities will have their cost increased.
False good in the case above has the 5th bonus "Reduces the cost of your Magicka Abilities by 8%. When you kill an enemy, you restore 2150 Magicka"

Haquor

Alcast did some testing and made a video about it. Endstate said it was unlikley for magicka but was comparable to MS front bar. def not for stam with rele and lokk being so strong.

Will see what more testers say. Would be nice to have another strong dpa crafted set in the game.

rumple9

What does "Active abilities" mean? Could refer to abilities that only remain active after use such as Dots

starkerealm

redlink1979 wrote: »

Probably it won't replace most of dps sets as you might think.
Most people would probably rather choose Law of Julianos, for example, because it does not have any downside like the 5% cost increase to it.

"The set performs very well overall, but the question is, is it really better than any of the current options we already have. I did some tests on a Magicka Sorcerer (Dragonhold PTS) on a 21 Million Iron Atronach Target Dummy (that has all raid buffs). I used Perfected False God's Devotion and Zaan as the base sets for this test. What I did next was front bar either Mother's Sorrow which is the standard set used in all the current builds, or I front bared the New Moon Acolyte set instead to see the difference. When I used The New Moon Acolyte set, I removed my 10 points in the Spell Erosion Perk from the Champion Points, because we already have more Spell Penetration from the New Moon Acolyte Set. I used the Shadow Mundus Stone in both the tests.

As you can see both tests are fairly close, resulting in almost no difference at all in terms of DPS due to error margin and RNG during DPS Tests. Now the downside New Moon Acolyte brings with us is the extra 5% cost increase that a lot of players seem to forget. The build I used is very front bar focused, therefore we did not spend a lot of time on the back bar where the 5% cost increase did not apply because we front bared the set only.

Conclusion: Having almost no DPS difference to Mother’s Sorrow and the extra 5% cost increase that comes along with the New Moon Acolyte set, it is simply not worth using it currently. The only argument standing for it is that it can be crafted, whereas Mother’s Sorrow has to be either bought or farmed in the Deshaan Overland Zone. But even then most people would probably rather choose Law of Julianos because it does not have any downside like the 5% cost increase to it."

https://alcasthq.com/eso-new-moon-acolyte-set-guide/

What's funny, and @Alcast knows this, is the interesting thing about NMA; is it's phys and spell pen stat. That, basically, doesn't exist anywhere else. The real use for NMA is going to be a baseline for hybrid (stam/mag) builds. Those are never going to parse competitively, but this will put them in a position where they're viable for non-leaderboard content.

When you start being able to pull from both pools, the set starts to look downright appealing. The cost increase doesn't matter because you're swapping through both pools as you go.

It's a very interesting set, but anyone trying to force it into an existing cookie cutter build is going to be disappointed. If you're thinking outside the box, this is one of the most exciting crafted sets since TBS.

Tatanko

rumple9 wrote: »

What does "Active abilities" mean? Could refer to abilities that only remain active after use such as Dots

Active = skills you press a button to use
Passive = skills you benefit from at all times or under certain conditions without needing to "use" them

The game has very clear definitions for what these are, and they're separated as such in the skills menu.

rotaugen454

Since the set is craftable, EVERYONE will have some sort of access to it. If it’s so OP, wont everyone be running it? And if everyone’s a super....no one is.

Rungar

great for heavy attack and pvp builds

Thogard

Commancho wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

This is an inefficient set for anyone other than a pure gank build.

If you have a single line of regen or cost reduction in your jewelry, don’t use this set.

Everyone runs at least one sustain set in PVP anyway unless they go full glass cannon. Especialy when you consider that Brass gets nerfed next patch. Everyone will run sustain set + Akolyte. Simple as that. It will get nerfed after few months. I know it, you know it, everyone with common sense knows it. Am I happy about it? Nope. Because I know that ZoS overnerfs things, because combat designers are bunch of amateurs.

Um no. Pretty much everything you wrote is wrong.

Austinseph1

Maybe for stam instead of hunting’s if you are starting out but it won’t compare to raid sets in PvP and sustain will be bad on mag characters so I’m not really seeing where i would replace a set on any of my characters for it. The only people that will get use out of it are going to be raids with a lot of synergies and iron atronach cheese parses.

redlink1979

@starkerealm Thanks for your insight.

luizpaulom17

Have U even tested it on PTS?
Sustain is at a horible place right now, unless zos changes this, this set wont be viable at all for PVE. Only for trash fights.

KappaKid83

I think you will see it a lot in PVP with Mag characters, especially Breton's and especially solo builds. I would like to see Shacklebreaker/New Moon/Chudan or something for solo Mag Sorcs to see what they do.

rotaugen454

Like others have said, might be good for new character leveling sets, especially since it works for both Magicka and Stamina builds. I already have a training setup every 10 levels for both Magicka and Stamina builds, so I don’t really need it for that.

SidraWillowsky

DCZergNoob wrote: »

I'm interested to see how this set turns out next update

So for those who dont know this is a craftable set
2 – 833 Weapon and Spell Critical
3 – 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
4 – 1487 Physical and Spell Penetration
5 – Adds 481 Weapon and Spell Damage. Increase the cost of your active abilities by 5%.

That 5% increase could most likely be negated with certain passives, and even so 5% isn't alot IMO.

Sigh.

I'll say it again: I have tested it extensively. It will absolutely NOT replace "the majority of damage sets". What it's going to do is help lower level/more casual players achieve higher DPS numbers. Pair it will Julianos or Hunding's and even two different monster set pieces (molag kena + balorgh worked well for me, but mag players can even go iceheart + kena or balorgh, which means they only need to run Direfrost for a helm can get the other piece from an undaunted chest- no vet DLC runs needed), run an easy rotation with only a few skills, and people should be able to clear 30k DPS much more easily.

What it will NOT be is BiS for people who are min/maxxing and aiming to get their DPS as high as possible. The sustain simply isn't there, and trying to make adjustments in other ways (replace spell/weapon damage glyphs with regen glyphs on jewelry, for example) will completely negate everything good about the set and you end up better off NOT running it.

I recommend waiting to test the yet yourself before crying about the sky falling- who is saying that this set is going to replace almost everything?

Dreyloch

I just saw some videos on this set with regards to PvE. It's nice, but is edged out by trial sets still. I'm personally excited to try it on some PvP builds. Will it replace one set from all my toons? Ehhh, I don't think so. But It's nice the way it is. If they make the 5% into 10% by end of PTS? Then no one will use it =/

Dreyloch

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

DCZergNoob wrote: »

I'm interested to see how this set turns out next update

So for those who dont know this is a craftable set
2 – 833 Weapon and Spell Critical
3 – 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
4 – 1487 Physical and Spell Penetration
5 – Adds 481 Weapon and Spell Damage. Increase the cost of your active abilities by 5%.

That 5% increase could most likely be negated with certain passives, and even so 5% isn't alot IMO.

And your point is? Seriously whats is your problem with it? The only class might find usage is Sta Sorc, after that PVP and a bad one also since resources are precious.

There are far more powerful sets out there and this is proven on recent videos.
At least gives option to play the game as initially designed as a hybrid, like all ES games.

I think it could work on a mag DK too. Problem is, the cost of mag skills for them is rough. Be hard to pair it with something and still have decent damage after taking into account the mana/sustain costs =/

Shantu

After constantly fighting sustain issues on the PTS caused by global increases (sometimes ridiculously so) in skill costs, if what we have now goes live, and there's no reason to doubt it won't, I suspect this set won't get much attention at all. Even if you water down your skill sets with lower cost, less damage options, it simply won't offset the DSP loss. Sustain is looking to be a major pain point this next patch.

ChunkyCat

All the good PvPers will be wrecking folks while rocking this set.

If you can’t see that, it’s because you’ll be too busy waiting to respawn.

code65536

5% extra cost isn't that much.

But 182 extra WD/SD isn't that much either, though.

BTW, if the user casts skills that cost an average of 2.5K resources and casts them every GCD, then 5% extra cost represents 125 extra cost every second.

Recovery ticks every 2s. So to counteract the effect of 125 extra cost every 2s, you need an extra 250 recovery. So 182 extra WD/SD for a cost that's effectively 250. In case you haven't noticed, the tradeoff between damage and recovery on gear is in a 1:1 ratio. So, in some ways, this set is actually a poor tradeoff.

danno8

Essavias wrote: »

I won't be using it. For PvE I run PFGD+MS and it's way better, for PvP - BTB+Swift. It's a nice set for casual overland/dungeons play, but even then I don't see a reason for someone who already has Julianos to switch.

P.S.

Anyone who says "just play a Breton to negate the downside, lul" - congrats, you've just negated the upside of playing a Breton.

Exactly. I don't understand those who say things like "just play Breton" or "just use a cost reduction glyph" or anything like that. The only way that works is if those items or race or whatever are currently over-budgeted in your build or generally have too much effectiveness to make use of currently. That is simply not the case with cost reduction glyphs or Breton or whatever.

However what IS currently over-budgeted (for endgame raids anyway) is penetration, so the penetration on this set makes it automatically not BiS for that specific scenario. For solo or overland or maybe vet dungeons it could be a good set, but the cost increase is real and any compensation you make to negate that 5% is just pulling from some other stat.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

MajBludd wrote: »

1st decent crafted set since shackle, imo.

Idea for leveling tbh. Pair Shackle + New Moon Acolyte on a low level character and off can go to pvp also.
At least to those who do not grind in just few hours a level 50

ZOS_JesC

Greetings, we've removed a handful of nonconstructive and baiting comments. This is a reminder that baiting and personal insults are against our forum rules and are never acceptable.

DCZergNoob

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

DCZergNoob wrote: »

I'm interested to see how this set turns out next update

So for those who dont know this is a craftable set
2 – 833 Weapon and Spell Critical
3 – 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
4 – 1487 Physical and Spell Penetration
5 – Adds 481 Weapon and Spell Damage. Increase the cost of your active abilities by 5%.

That 5% increase could most likely be negated with certain passives, and even so 5% isn't alot IMO.

And your point is? Seriously whats is your problem with it? The only class might find usage is Sta Sorc, after that PVP and a bad one also since resources are precious.

There are far more powerful sets out there and this is proven on recent videos.
At least gives option to play the game as initially designed as a hybrid, like all ES games.

I don't have a problem with it? Is it so hard to ask for others opinions on these god forsaken forums.
If i had a legitimate problem with it i would of said it in the OP, actual pepega

Deep_01

I'll still be using my mother's sorrow.