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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861

Revert ice staff back to a DPS option

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  • LeHarrt91
    LeHarrt91
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    Yes
    If they made Ancient Knowledge Crit based for Frost staff tanks wont need that passive, make Tri-Focus about tanking with frost staff. change some unused morphs and both roles can use frost staff. It wont specialise in dps like that other two staves but it will then it can be used by dps.
    PS NA
    Have played all classes.
    Warden Main
  • RaveRaveRaveRave
    RaveRaveRaveRave
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    No
    I'm leaning towards no. As much as I'd like to be an Ice DPS I have 6 tanks and almost every single one of them backbars an Ice Staff.
  • LeHarrt91
    LeHarrt91
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    Yes
    RaveRaveRaveRave wrote: »
    I'm leaning towards no. As much as I'd like to be an Ice DPS I have 6 tanks and almost every single one of them backbars an Ice Staff.

    What if they made a specific magic tanking weapon?
    PS NA
    Have played all classes.
    Warden Main
  • RaveRaveRaveRave
    RaveRaveRaveRave
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    No
    LeHarrt91 wrote: »
    RaveRaveRaveRave wrote: »
    I'm leaning towards no. As much as I'd like to be an Ice DPS I have 6 tanks and almost every single one of them backbars an Ice Staff.

    What if they made a specific magic tanking weapon?

    Then yeah by all means. As long as I can block using magic.
  • starkerealm
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    LizziAS wrote: »
    starkerealm wrote: »
    LizziAS wrote: »
    mikemacon wrote: »
    Somber97866 wrote: »
    All the tanks are using shock staves anyway.

    Only those who are very, very bad at reading comprehension.

    ice staff and shock staff are magicka tank tools but if you want to dps with ice staff then use light attack weaving

    If you want DPS with a frost staff, you just avoid the passive that adds a taunt. Does make things sticky if you want to use a different staff on the other bar, but, that's the necessary step.

    No need to avoid the passive. just light attack weave. Then when you are doing solo play you have the taunt and the shield should you choose to not light attack weave.

    You do realize you dont have to use heavy attack on the frost staff right?

    You have seen what happens to a DPS that accidentally pulls aggro because they accidentally used a taunt, right?
  • starkerealm
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    LizziAS wrote: »
    Bigevilpeter wrote: »
    I like that there is another option for tanking other than S&B. Perhaps just remove the havey attack taunt, its useless even for tanks anyways and ruins the potential of it being used as DPS

    i use it a lot for magicka tank build s and DO NOT want the option to taunt with it to go away

    It should be on an active ability, such as Frost Clench. The long windup for the taunt means that in vet content, the ice staff's taunt is functionally non-existent for the tank, meaning most competent ice tanks run inner fire.
  • LeHarrt91
    LeHarrt91
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    Yes
    starkerealm wrote: »
    LizziAS wrote: »
    Bigevilpeter wrote: »
    I like that there is another option for tanking other than S&B. Perhaps just remove the havey attack taunt, its useless even for tanks anyways and ruins the potential of it being used as DPS

    i use it a lot for magicka tank build s and DO NOT want the option to taunt with it to go away

    It should be on an active ability, such as Frost Clench. The long windup for the taunt means that in vet content, the ice staff's taunt is functionally non-existent for the tank, meaning most competent ice tanks run inner fire.

    What about Elemental Susceptibility, the other Ele drain morph.
    PS NA
    Have played all classes.
    Warden Main
  • starkerealm
    starkerealm
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    LeHarrt91 wrote: »
    starkerealm wrote: »
    LizziAS wrote: »
    Bigevilpeter wrote: »
    I like that there is another option for tanking other than S&B. Perhaps just remove the havey attack taunt, its useless even for tanks anyways and ruins the potential of it being used as DPS

    i use it a lot for magicka tank build s and DO NOT want the option to taunt with it to go away

    It should be on an active ability, such as Frost Clench. The long windup for the taunt means that in vet content, the ice staff's taunt is functionally non-existent for the tank, meaning most competent ice tanks run inner fire.

    What about Elemental Susceptibility, the other Ele drain morph.

    IIRC, that one doesn't shift based on your equipped element type. The issue isn't having a taunt on the destro staff, it's having one that is specific to the ice staff.

    If the idea was that all three destro lines should have a taunt? Yeah, that'd make sense. I'm not outright opposed to the idea either.
  • peacenote
    peacenote
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    Undecided
    I was going to say no, but after reading some of the responses I chose "undecided" as the closest option to other.

    I like that there is a staff option for tanking. I would not like to see that go away, but I would definitely support ice returning to a better version of itself, for damage, with the introduction of a tanking staff.

    Basically, give us ice DPS and a tanking staff and don't sacrifice one play style for the other. If we can't have both, I have accepted at this point that "ice" is the tanking staff and have made my peace with it. Of the three elements, it was the best choice.
    My #1 wish for ESO Today: Decouple achievements from character progress and tracking.
    • Advocate for this HERE.
    • Want the history of this issue? It's HERE.
  • Grandma
    Grandma
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    No
    keep it a tank item but fix it and make it actually a viable alternative to s/b.
    GH / 3/04/2021 / Elemental Catalyst Necromancer
  • LeHarrt91
    LeHarrt91
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    Yes
    starkerealm wrote: »
    LizziAS wrote: »
    Bigevilpeter wrote: »
    I like that there is another option for tanking other than S&B. Perhaps just remove the havey attack taunt, its useless even for tanks anyways and ruins the potential of it being used as DPS

    i use it a lot for magicka tank build s and DO NOT want the option to taunt with it to go away

    It should be on an active ability, such as Frost Clench. The long windup for the taunt means that in vet content, the ice staff's taunt is functionally non-existent for the tank, meaning most competent ice tanks run inner fire.

    What about Elemental Susceptibility, the other Ele drain morph.
    starkerealm wrote: »
    LeHarrt91 wrote: »
    starkerealm wrote: »
    LizziAS wrote: »
    Bigevilpeter wrote: »
    I like that there is another option for tanking other than S&B. Perhaps just remove the havey attack taunt, its useless even for tanks anyways and ruins the potential of it being used as DPS

    i use it a lot for magicka tank build s and DO NOT want the option to taunt with it to go away

    It should be on an active ability, such as Frost Clench. The long windup for the taunt means that in vet content, the ice staff's taunt is functionally non-existent for the tank, meaning most competent ice tanks run inner fire.

    What about Elemental Susceptibility, the other Ele drain morph.

    IIRC, that one doesn't shift based on your equipped element type. The issue isn't having a taunt on the destro staff, it's having one that is specific to the ice staff.

    If the idea was that all three destro lines should have a taunt? Yeah, that'd make sense. I'm not outright opposed to the idea either.

    Yeah move the HA taunt to Ele Sus, most tanks i know use Shock bb anyway. But have Frost staff keep the block passives.
    PS NA
    Have played all classes.
    Warden Main
  • RaveRaveRaveRave
    RaveRaveRaveRave
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    No
    starkerealm wrote: »
    LizziAS wrote: »
    Bigevilpeter wrote: »
    I like that there is another option for tanking other than S&B. Perhaps just remove the havey attack taunt, its useless even for tanks anyways and ruins the potential of it being used as DPS

    i use it a lot for magicka tank build s and DO NOT want the option to taunt with it to go away

    It should be on an active ability, such as Frost Clench. The long windup for the taunt means that in vet content, the ice staff's taunt is functionally non-existent for the tank, meaning most competent ice tanks run inner fire.

    I use my ice staff heavy attack as the initial taunt most of the time. Once in a while it will come into play during certain boss fights. I wouldnt say non-existent or not competent though.
  • ZonasArch
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    Somber97866 wrote: »
    All the tanks are using shock staves anyway.

    All the tanks? I run bow, ice staff, shock staff, all depends on build, team, race and class my tank is.

    I like it for tanking, would be happy if they had a middle ground. Say, a passive for tanks, another for DPS, you can use both if you want.
  • CambionDaemon
    CambionDaemon
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    The simplest way to have a tanking stave would have been to give Destruction Staff and Sword and Board a sixth passive that when bought turns one skill into a taunt. I like to run Sword and Board on heavy armour dps (not endgame), but the stupid taunt is on puncture.

    In fact you could do that on each weapon, except bow.
  • starkerealm
    starkerealm
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    RaveRaveRaveRave wrote: »
    starkerealm wrote: »
    LizziAS wrote: »
    Bigevilpeter wrote: »
    I like that there is another option for tanking other than S&B. Perhaps just remove the havey attack taunt, its useless even for tanks anyways and ruins the potential of it being used as DPS

    i use it a lot for magicka tank build s and DO NOT want the option to taunt with it to go away

    It should be on an active ability, such as Frost Clench. The long windup for the taunt means that in vet content, the ice staff's taunt is functionally non-existent for the tank, meaning most competent ice tanks run inner fire.

    I use my ice staff heavy attack as the initial taunt most of the time. Once in a while it will come into play during certain boss fights. I wouldnt say non-existent or not competent though.

    Yeah, but you are using Inner Fire. Non-competent tanks are the ones eschewing Inner Fire (and Pierce), and relying on just the Ice heavy. Usually because it "doesn't fit their theme." *shudders*
  • starkerealm
    starkerealm
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    CambionDaemon wrote: »
    The simplest way to have a tanking stave would have been to give Destruction Staff and Sword and Board a sixth passive that when bought turns one skill into a taunt. I like to run Sword and Board on heavy armour dps (not endgame), but the stupid taunt is on puncture.

    In fact you could do that on each weapon, except bow.

    Ironically, the Bow isn't the worst tanking tool. You can always run Inner Fire (or the stam morph) if you want to taunt on that bar.
  • LizziAS
    LizziAS
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    No
    starkerealm wrote: »
    LizziAS wrote: »
    Bigevilpeter wrote: »
    I like that there is another option for tanking other than S&B. Perhaps just remove the havey attack taunt, its useless even for tanks anyways and ruins the potential of it being used as DPS

    i use it a lot for magicka tank build s and DO NOT want the option to taunt with it to go away

    It should be on an active ability, such as Frost Clench. The long windup for the taunt means that in vet content, the ice staff's taunt is functionally non-existent for the tank, meaning most competent ice tanks run inner fire.

    Thats just crazy talk
    -Signature Removed-




  • LizziAS
    LizziAS
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    No
    peacenote wrote: »
    I was going to say no, but after reading some of the responses I chose "undecided" as the closest option to other.

    I like that there is a staff option for tanking. I would not like to see that go away, but I would definitely support ice returning to a better version of itself, for damage, with the introduction of a tanking staff.

    Basically, give us ice DPS and a tanking staff and don't sacrifice one play style for the other. If we can't have both, I have accepted at this point that "ice" is the tanking staff and have made my peace with it. Of the three elements, it was the best choice.

    it's called light attack weaving. easy peasy no need to change anything. light attack weave. no problem
    -Signature Removed-




  • starkerealm
    starkerealm
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    LizziAS wrote: »
    starkerealm wrote: »
    LizziAS wrote: »
    Bigevilpeter wrote: »
    I like that there is another option for tanking other than S&B. Perhaps just remove the havey attack taunt, its useless even for tanks anyways and ruins the potential of it being used as DPS

    i use it a lot for magicka tank build s and DO NOT want the option to taunt with it to go away

    It should be on an active ability, such as Frost Clench. The long windup for the taunt means that in vet content, the ice staff's taunt is functionally non-existent for the tank, meaning most competent ice tanks run inner fire.

    Thats just crazy talk

    No, my sorc tank is crazy talk. Also shockingly effective.

    This just the part where I actually know how to tank.
  • LizziAS
    LizziAS
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    No
    RaveRaveRaveRave wrote: »
    starkerealm wrote: »
    LizziAS wrote: »
    Bigevilpeter wrote: »
    I like that there is another option for tanking other than S&B. Perhaps just remove the havey attack taunt, its useless even for tanks anyways and ruins the potential of it being used as DPS

    i use it a lot for magicka tank build s and DO NOT want the option to taunt with it to go away

    It should be on an active ability, such as Frost Clench. The long windup for the taunt means that in vet content, the ice staff's taunt is functionally non-existent for the tank, meaning most competent ice tanks run inner fire.

    I use my ice staff heavy attack as the initial taunt most of the time. Once in a while it will come into play during certain boss fights. I wouldnt say non-existent or not competent though.

    Tryuly. How hard is it to aim and fire an ice staff every 15 seconds for heavy attack taunt for a tank or light attack weave it for a dps build?

    I have a healer hybrid running jorvulds and icy conjurer. use an ice staff and a healing staff. Light attack weave is no problem. well except when the arthritis kicks in then i just do something else.
    Edited by LizziAS on October 15, 2019 3:10AM
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  • starkerealm
    starkerealm
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    LizziAS wrote: »
    RaveRaveRaveRave wrote: »
    starkerealm wrote: »
    LizziAS wrote: »
    Bigevilpeter wrote: »
    I like that there is another option for tanking other than S&B. Perhaps just remove the havey attack taunt, its useless even for tanks anyways and ruins the potential of it being used as DPS

    i use it a lot for magicka tank build s and DO NOT want the option to taunt with it to go away

    It should be on an active ability, such as Frost Clench. The long windup for the taunt means that in vet content, the ice staff's taunt is functionally non-existent for the tank, meaning most competent ice tanks run inner fire.

    I use my ice staff heavy attack as the initial taunt most of the time. Once in a while it will come into play during certain boss fights. I wouldnt say non-existent or not competent though.

    Tryuly. How hard is it to aim and fire an ice staff every 15 seconds for heavy attack taunt for a tank or light attack weave it for a dps build?

    I have a healer hybrid running jorvulds and icy conjurer. use an ice staff and a healing staff. Light attack weave is no problem. well except when the arthritis kicks in then i just do something else.

    Depends on the content. There's a lot of encounters that will turn you into Wardenpaste on the walls if you take the time to wind up a heavy at the wrong moment. When your taunt is tied to that heavy, and it overlaps in just the wrong way, you're forced to decide between dropping taunt and watching the boss kill the DPS, or dying horrifically, and watching the boss murder the DPS.

    You couldn't pay me enough to maintank vAS+2 as HA Warden Ice Tank. Hell, you probably couldn't pay me enough to maintank vAS+0 as a HA Warden Ice Tank. And I have no qualms going in there on a Sorc tank.
  • D0PAMINE
    D0PAMINE
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    Don't care
    DaNnYtHePcFrEaK wrote: »
    D0PAMINE wrote: »
    max_only wrote: »
    A tank with a staff should be niche and specialized. Tanks don’t use staves in any rpg setting until this one and we only started using because Zos has nerfed tanks into the mud.

    Yes, I’m salty. They ruined tanking for me. Which I thought was impossible since I’m always the tank or healer in every mmo and not just in rpg settings. Yes even in FPS

    You can still double SnB. Xynode still does. I like having the option for a staff, but I wouldn't be forced to use it. I don't run a frost staff because it feels weird, but lightning feels nice to me. Just run your setup you like and you can still do any content with it.

    Yeah but xynodes tank builds are trash and would not be beneficial to anything other than low tier 4 man stuff... There is only one tank to rule them all

    Frost staff took a while to get used to but I use it over the shock staff now

    I've seen his tank handle some of the harder content. Why is it trash?
  • LeHarrt91
    LeHarrt91
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    Yes
    LizziAS wrote: »
    peacenote wrote: »
    I was going to say no, but after reading some of the responses I chose "undecided" as the closest option to other.

    I like that there is a staff option for tanking. I would not like to see that go away, but I would definitely support ice returning to a better version of itself, for damage, with the introduction of a tanking staff.

    Basically, give us ice DPS and a tanking staff and don't sacrifice one play style for the other. If we can't have both, I have accepted at this point that "ice" is the tanking staff and have made my peace with it. Of the three elements, it was the best choice.

    it's called light attack weaving. easy peasy no need to change anything. light attack weave. no problem

    Yes LA weaving is easy to do with a frost staff but that doesnt change the fact that it offers no DPS, and when lag kicks in better hope your LA doesnt bug out and turn itself into HA. It was poorly implemented, there are so many frost dps sets that were made unusable with the change. It should have been a new weapon line from the beginning.
    PS NA
    Have played all classes.
    Warden Main
  • starkerealm
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    D0PAMINE wrote: »
    DaNnYtHePcFrEaK wrote: »
    D0PAMINE wrote: »
    max_only wrote: »
    A tank with a staff should be niche and specialized. Tanks don’t use staves in any rpg setting until this one and we only started using because Zos has nerfed tanks into the mud.

    Yes, I’m salty. They ruined tanking for me. Which I thought was impossible since I’m always the tank or healer in every mmo and not just in rpg settings. Yes even in FPS

    You can still double SnB. Xynode still does. I like having the option for a staff, but I wouldn't be forced to use it. I don't run a frost staff because it feels weird, but lightning feels nice to me. Just run your setup you like and you can still do any content with it.

    Yeah but xynodes tank builds are trash and would not be beneficial to anything other than low tier 4 man stuff... There is only one tank to rule them all

    Frost staff took a while to get used to but I use it over the shock staff now

    I've seen his tank handle some of the harder content. Why is it trash?

    Because @xynode has an obsessive fixation with Leeching Plate, and "everyone knows" Leeching is a terrible set... so WHY WON'T HIS TANKS DIE!"

    Dude does some downright hilarious things with tanks. Stuff that has no right to work, and then it does it anyway. The only time I've seen a bad tank build attributed to him, the guy who was running it, would use it correctly.

    In fairness, a large chunk of the endgame tryhard community likes to smear him because he won't guzzle the Alcast koolaid. This goes for his tanks and his DPS.
  • Somber97866
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    Yes but change the way ice works to increase damage instead of damage shol
    They could've left the ice staves alone and made a new quarter staff for tanks.
  • Canned_Apples
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    Undecided
    What would the ice staff improve? St and ae are already taken.
    If you want to use it as a dps staff- then don’t get the first passive. I tell people that when I see them using it in dungeons, it’s annoying as a tank.
  • LeHarrt91
    LeHarrt91
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    Yes
    Canned_Apples wrote: »
    What would the ice staff improve? St and ae are already taken.
    If you want to use it as a dps staff- then don’t get the first passive. I tell people that when I see them using it in dungeons, it’s annoying as a tank.

    8% to Crit or DoTs would make sense. And they would need to move the taunt (maybe to Ele Sus), and preferably increase the HA shield size (if they kept that)
    PS NA
    Have played all classes.
    Warden Main
  • LizziAS
    LizziAS
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    No
    Canned_Apples wrote: »
    What would the ice staff improve? St and ae are already taken.
    If you want to use it as a dps staff- then don’t get the first passive. I tell people that when I see them using it in dungeons, it’s annoying as a tank.

    light attack weaving. BAM! dps.
    -Signature Removed-




  • starkerealm
    starkerealm
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    LizziAS wrote: »
    Canned_Apples wrote: »
    What would the ice staff improve? St and ae are already taken.
    If you want to use it as a dps staff- then don’t get the first passive. I tell people that when I see them using it in dungeons, it’s annoying as a tank.

    light attack weaving. BAM! dps.

    Light Attack Weaving + Lag = the low DPS just taunted, kick 'em.
  • LizziAS
    LizziAS
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    No
    Leave the staff alone. I use it for my magica dps/healer hybrid and that taunt comes in handy when the tank is afraid and wont stop running around in circles. At those times i need to taunt and so we dont get dizzy chasing the boss around the screen.
    -Signature Removed-




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