Terrible Drop Rate for Dungeon Blueprints

Elara_Northwind

Hello! We were having a little discussion on Discord today about an issue which is affecting a large portion of the housing community in game, which was mostly highlighted by a comment somebody made about spending hundreds of thousands in gold to obtain a furnishing plan for a platform, because they knew that they wouldn't be able to complete the new dungeons for an insanely rare chance to find it. I know many people will fail to understand this, as they can just do the dungeons on vet hardmode without a second thought, but the housing community is largely made up of players who are not hardcore pve or pvpers. This doesn't go for all of us, of course. Many of us can complete this content too, but many also cannot. It just feels strange to lock rare furnishing plans behind dungeons, and then those furnishing plans fall into the wrong hands, and people who have busy real lives are having to farm gold for days to give to greedy traders just to get these plans! Its quite ridiculous.

Would you lock a new rare weapon behind a housing or (I know they don't exist but) a roleplaying achievement? Would you introduce a new epic set which can only be obtained through fishing, but also so rare that you would need to fish for days to get one piece? It's almost like ZOS don't seem to realise that there are a huge amount of different players who play this game, not everybody is into the same thing, which is what makes this game so wonderfully diverse in the first place. Why make these plans so rare, and why lock them (or the most chance to get them) behind vet hm dungeons, when the majority of the people who want to use these plans don't do vet, or in some cases even normal dungeons, because they physically feel like they can't.

People who want to enjoy their time in the game doing pvp or pve aren't forced to spend hours decorating houses in order to get the things they need, so why is it ok for this to be the other way around? People should be able to spend their time in their own game as they wish. Again, this isn't necessarily about me, I enjoy pvp and I like to do vet dungeons now and then, but I care very much about the housing community which is made up of so many lovely people, and it's just really sad to see them wasting so many hours or even days of their lives farming gold so that they can get plans which should be for free. The drop rate for plans found in dungeons drastically needs to be increased, and should be equally farmable on both vet and normal, at least that way more housing people will be able to get these plans, and those who still don't feel up to it won't have to fork out half a million gold to get them.

Housing is already such an expensive hobby, and the community is being taken advantage of by traders, which would stop if you just made these things less of a rarity and more obtainable to those who need them. I'm not saying to make these plans so common that you find one each time you run the dungeon, it should still be a nice surprise, but as it stands now, they are virtually non existent, and seem almost impossible to find in Normal dungeons.

Blaqmagik

Almost as bad as me having to complete pve content in order to be able to competently compete in pvp. You'll be alright

Elara_Northwind

Blaqmagik wrote: »

Almost as bad as me having to complete pve content in order to be able to competently compete in pvp. You'll be alright

Haha! Yes, we were talking about that too! Before housing, all I did in this game was pvp, and it was annoying having to farm dungeons, but at least I was able to do them. Some of these people literally have never even done a dungeon before, let alone a vet HM one. Again, I'm not talking about all housing people here, but many do only play the game for the housing aspect.

I agree though, they should probably make the best sets for pvp only available in pvp and same for pve, it would make people much happier

Dusk_Coven

Elara_Northwind wrote: »

People who want to enjoy their time in the game doing pvp or pve aren't forced to spend hours decorating houses in order to get the things they need, so why is it ok for this to be the other way around?

Because
(1) no game has figured out how to make decorating a "game" -- that is, with mechanics and a measurable goal -- that is challenging; and this is easier said than done considering that people are willing to exploit whatever they can do in order to reduce or remove challenge in any endeavour, even if it means basically bypassing the game part. e.g., Fungal Grotto 1 shortcut.

(2) rarity is gated behind challenge of some sort other than currency because too quickly currency is no challenge

(3) without rarity, everyone can get everything quickly, and there's no more game left. Well, except for the furniture people because they can continue to happily experiment with furnishing different houses endlessly. But even with these groups...

(4) rarity -> exclusivity -> social status. And that's an underlying component of housing (and outfits). It's hard for non-housing non-outfit people to understand sometimes, but there's a certain something to owning something that few people have.
That's why companies like Rolex price everything so high (exclusivity) AND limit quantities around the world (rarity).

redspecter23

Unless it's bound on pickup, I don't see the issue. It's not something you can't acquire at all. It's something you can buy for gold which is good. It promotes a healthy economy. Those that run dungeons have an incentive. A reward that they may not necessarily want but which is in high demand. To me, it's no different than a dungeon motif page.

On the other side of that coin, I'm not very much into housing but a few months ago I paid someone quite a substantial amount of gold to decorate my house and they did an amazing job. They provided a service that I had no interest in doing myself and were compensated for it. They could then use that gold on any number of things... including furnishing plans that they may not be able to loot themselves.

Also note that just because something can be acquired through a certain activity, it doesn't guarantee that you will ever get it. I kill overland mobs every day and have never pulled an Aetheric Cipher. I happily bought one from someone that did get it though. I have every opportunity to get one myself but after 3+ years it just hasn't happened yet.

Veinblood1965

I laughed my you know what off after seeing this subject line. How dare rare items be rare!

Elara_Northwind

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Elara_Northwind wrote: »

People who want to enjoy their time in the game doing pvp or pve aren't forced to spend hours decorating houses in order to get the things they need, so why is it ok for this to be the other way around?

Because
(1) no game has figured out how to make decorating a "game" -- that is, with mechanics and a measurable goal -- that is challenging; and this is easier said than done considering that people are willing to exploit whatever they can do in order to reduce or remove challenge in any endeavour, even if it means basically bypassing the game part. e.g., Fungal Grotto 1 shortcut.

(2) rarity is gated behind challenge of some sort other than currency because too quickly currency is no challenge

(3) without rarity, everyone can get everything quickly, and there's no more game left. Well, except for the furniture people because they can continue to happily experiment with furnishing different houses endlessly. But even with these groups...

(4) rarity -> exclusivity -> social status. And that's an underlying component of housing (and outfits). It's hard for non-housing non-outfit people to understand sometimes, but there's a certain something to owning something that few people have.
That's why companies like Rolex price everything so high (exclusivity) AND limit quantities around the world (rarity).

I agree, I think these plans should still be rare, just not locked behind vet hm dungeons which make them unobtainable to the vast majority of people who actually need them. The rarity isn't the biggest issue here, it's the fact that even the chance to get these plans is not a possibility for a large part of the playerbase who actually care about them. If they were as easily obtainable on normal, then that would solve the issue of both housing people being able to have the opportunity to get the things that they need to enjoy their own game, and the traders taking advantage of the people who they know don't have the time or expertise to do a vet HM dungeon 100 times for a chance to get a plan.

Starlock

I wasn't aware they were doing this, @Elara_Northwind - thanks for the insight. I've been aware of them gating other important roleplay/cosmetic items behind ultra-hard content, but this is one that's flown under my radar. I'm not sure what solution there is, if any, to this issue. On the one hand it is nice that the content is being made available as a reward, but on the other hand, between the RNG and difficulty the reward sure can feel like a punishment, yeah?

Personally, I find RNG mechanics a strange thing to include in RPGs just in general but that's probably my background as a tabletop gamer coming through. The very notion of RNG is anathema to an RPG as it distracts from actual storytelling and character development, which is the heart and soul of any proper RPG. "Oh hey, let's interrupt our epic quest to grind for this set item or furnishing plan," said no character in any tabletop RPG ever. Well, not the good ones anyway.

Elara_Northwind

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

I laughed my you know what off after seeing this subject line. How dare rare items be rare!

I actually stated that I think that they should be rare, just obtainable in normal dungeons as well as hm vet ones, so that the people who actually use these items have a chance to get them. It seems weird locking a housing item behind a hm vet dungeon.

WrathOfInnos

What are you referring to specifically? And how is it currently obtained? I don’t think I’ve ever seen a vet HM final boss drop any furnishing plans.

MJallday

This isn’t sims 4. This is ESO. Want the hard furniture plans? [snip]

[edited for circumventing profanity filter]

Reverb

Progression pve is also an expensive hobby. The outlay of gold for potions and mats really outpaces what most earn by doing HM vet trials and dlc dungeons. Those rare drops that can be sold are the best way to stay solvent.

Blaqmagik

Imo I think the plans are fine the way they are, it's not like people can't get them if they are unable to complete the content. They can either buy the plan from a trader (expensive option) or find someone else that knows the plan, and have the item crafted for them. Either way the people that are unable to complete the content still have access to the item.

Personally I've gotten to the point where pve is such an annoyance, that any new builds have to be comprised of gear I already have, or can craft, since the thought of grinding any more makes me want uninstall lol

Elara_Northwind

redspecter23 wrote: »

Unless it's bound on pickup, I don't see the issue. It's not something you can't acquire at all. It's something you can buy for gold which is good. It promotes a healthy economy. Those that run dungeons have an incentive. A reward that they may not necessarily want but which is in high demand. To me, it's no different than a dungeon motif page.

On the other side of that coin, I'm not very much into housing but a few months ago I paid someone quite a substantial amount of gold to decorate my house and they did an amazing job. They provided a service that I had no interest in doing myself and were compensated for it. They could then use that gold on any number of things... including furnishing plans that they may not be able to loot themselves.

Also note that just because something can be acquired through a certain activity, it doesn't guarantee that you will ever get it. I kill overland mobs every day and have never pulled an Aetheric Cipher. I happily bought one from someone that did get it though. I have every opportunity to get one myself but after 3+ years it just hasn't happened yet.

There is promoting a healthy economy, and then there is fleecing people sometimes up to 6 million gold for a rare item, which that person could easily have been able to farm themselves, had they been able to.

Maybe I am caring too much about this, because as I said before, it doesn't affect me, I can complete the vet dungeons fine, but I don't like to see people taken advantage of. I am the kind of person who decorates peoples homes for free because I feel like we should all help eachother in this game, that is how I look at it, which is why I made this post to stand up for those who are indeed being taken advantage of on a regular basis, which could be stopped simply by making the plans obtainable in normal dungeons too, which would still be a challenge for many of the people who need these plans.

Elara_Northwind

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

What are you referring to specifically? And how is it currently obtained? I don’t think I’ve ever seen a vet HM final boss drop any furnishing plans.

The furnishing plans are rarely obtained in containers in the new dungeons.

IndianaJames7

What rare furnishings are locked behind vet hm content? As far as I’m aware furnishing plans are found in lootable containers throughout the dungeons, so wether you do hm or not has no effect on drops. Unless you are talking about motifs?

Either way, I think it is a good thing that some of the most rare and valuable items are hard to obtain and require some degree of skill (and rng) to get, assuming you do not just buy it. This makes challenging content more rewarding and adds value to players that want to spend their time playing combat based content rather than just farming/trading/doing writs.

I’m sorry but I don’t have much sympathy for RPers and fashion scrolls players who complain about items being too expensive, especially considering that RPers and fashion scrolls players are the ones paying so much money for these rare items causing them to increase in price in the first place. And I say this as someone who genuinely enjoys those elements of the game.

ZOS made a deliberate decision to include rare items in this game (as pretty much all games have). The outcome of that is you will either have to complete difficult content to get, grind for it, or if you don’t want to do that, pay a large amount of gold to someone else who did.

There are also many furnishings locked behind specific achievements from all aspects of the game (throne of Cyrodiil, litany of blood, undaunted busts etc.). This is clearly intended, and I for one agree with it.

MasterSpatula

I think ZOS gets that the best activities for gold-making in this game fall outside high-end PVE and PVP, and so they want to put some ways into the game for these players to make some gold. Thus, schematics that the high-end PVE players can access that will be most desired by players who have different priorities/playstyles.

In principle, I don't have a problem with this. Facilitating trade between players who concentrate on different aspects of the game is a good thing.

However, as usual, ZOS is completely addicted to atrocious drop rates, making these rare schematics not just valuable but insanely-overpriced. And look, even though I think the housing system should have focused more on player creativity than grinds, I get that having some rarer items increases the excitement factor. It makes sense, within reasonable limits.

But there's long been at least one person at ZOS who has influence over droprates who does not hold reasonable among his or her priorities.

So the idea is sound, but the execution is bad due to predictably bad priorities.

Elara_Northwind

Blaqmagik wrote: »

Imo I think the plans are fine the way they are, it's not like people can't get them if they are unable to complete the content. They can either buy the plan from a trader (expensive option) or find someone else that knows the plan, and have the item crafted for them. Either way the people that are unable to complete the content still have access to the item.

Personally I've gotten to the point where pve is such an annoyance, that any new builds have to be comprised of gear I already have, or can craft, since the thought of grinding any more makes me want uninstall lol

That is true, and when (if) I ever manage to find all of these new plans, I shall happily craft them for anybody who needs

It can be difficult though, to find people to craft things for you when pretty much nobody knows these recipes! It's just a shame that they aren't obtainable to those who truly want them, in my opinion. I'm going to try and do the new dungeons tomorrow though, on vet HM with some housing people. It's going to take us a very long time so hopefully one of us gets a plan!

redspecter23

Elara_Northwind wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Unless it's bound on pickup, I don't see the issue. It's not something you can't acquire at all. It's something you can buy for gold which is good. It promotes a healthy economy. Those that run dungeons have an incentive. A reward that they may not necessarily want but which is in high demand. To me, it's no different than a dungeon motif page.

On the other side of that coin, I'm not very much into housing but a few months ago I paid someone quite a substantial amount of gold to decorate my house and they did an amazing job. They provided a service that I had no interest in doing myself and were compensated for it. They could then use that gold on any number of things... including furnishing plans that they may not be able to loot themselves.

Also note that just because something can be acquired through a certain activity, it doesn't guarantee that you will ever get it. I kill overland mobs every day and have never pulled an Aetheric Cipher. I happily bought one from someone that did get it though. I have every opportunity to get one myself but after 3+ years it just hasn't happened yet.

There is promoting a healthy economy, and then there is fleecing people sometimes up to 6 million gold for a rare item, which that person could easily have been able to farm themselves, had they been able to.

Maybe I am caring too much about this, because as I said before, it doesn't affect me, I can complete the vet dungeons fine, but I don't like to see people taken advantage of. I am the kind of person who decorates peoples homes for free because I feel like we should all help eachother in this game, that is how I look at it, which is why I made this post to stand up for those who are indeed being taken advantage of on a regular basis, which could be stopped simply by making the plans obtainable in normal dungeons too, which would still be a challenge for many of the people who need these plans.

The issue then is that the item is too rare in general, not that it's in a hard to complete dungeon. If it were 100 times as common but still only available in the veteran dungeon, would that be ok? Or the alternative. Make it available in the normal version but make it 100 times as rare a drop in normal. In my first example, the price would actually drop. In the second example, simply adding it to easier content doesn't necessarily affect the price. An item can be insanely rare even if it drops in very easy content. Going back to my previous post, anyone can kill an overland mob. It's not a difficult thing to do but Aetheric Cipher is still very rare and still very expensive.

TLDR, adding an item to easier content won't necessarily affect the price if that item has an insanely low drop rate anyway. You need to alter the supply and demand equation in order to affect the price. What you would need to do is increase the supply or decrease the demand.

jypcy

In fairness, I don’t think the furnishings can be locked behind HM. HM is always a setting or condition associated exclusively with the last boss fight, so unless activating/fulfilling it then resets all of the containers from which you can loot these furnishings throughout the dungeon you just completed, at most they can be “locked” behind vet.

Even then I don’t know whether there’s truly a disparity in rarity between normal and vet. After all, in my experience, these are simply exceedingly rare. Despite vet dlc content being practically the only content I run in the game any more, I’ve only ever seen one such furnishing looted and that was by a group member (I did loot one myself from FL but that was on PTS, so idk if it counts haha). But only seeing 1-2 over the past roughly two years of running vet dlc dungeons numerous times a week? That seems statistically possible that someone who ran as much as I do but only on normal might never see any, even if they have the same drop chance regardless of difficulty, and so come to your conclusion.

Also, worth noting that there is at least one meta endgame food recipe locked behind dlc fishing, and that’s even bind on pickup.

Plus, I don’t think putting these items in dungeons is meant to cater to “greedy endgamers” at the cost of housing enthusiasts. Rather, I imagine the intent is to encourage players who might not otherwise run the new dungeon content (e.g., housing enthusiasts) an incentive to go in and give it a try, seeing as they might not be drawn by the challenge or item sets. On the flip side, finding a cool new furnishing can give an end gamer an incentive to try out housing. Rather than divide the community, it seems to me intended to create a bridge between potentially isolated playstyles (albeit arguably a poorly implemented one).

Still, my understanding is that your argument should be focused more on the rarity of these furnishing for everyone instead of making it an us vs them fight, because if my case is in any way indicative of the standard for endgamers, these furnishings are practically nonexistent even to “them”.

WrathOfInnos

Elara_Northwind wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

What are you referring to specifically? And how is it currently obtained? I don’t think I’ve ever seen a vet HM final boss drop any furnishing plans.

The furnishing plans are rarely obtained in containers in the new dungeons.

In that case hard mode would not affect their drop rate, since the game doesn’t even know if you plan to do HM until you get to the final boss. I’m not even sure Normal vs Vet affects the drops in most container types, just locked chests and boss drops AFAIK.

Elara_Northwind

IndianaJames7 wrote: »

What rare furnishings are locked behind vet hm content? As far as I’m aware furnishing plans are found in lootable containers throughout the dungeons, so wether you do hm or not has no effect on drops. Unless you are talking about motifs?

Either way, I think it is a good thing that some of the most rare and valuable items are hard to obtain and require some degree of skill (and rng) to get, assuming you do not just buy it. This makes challenging content more rewarding and adds value to players that want to spend their time playing combat based content rather than just farming/trading/doing writs.

I’m sorry but I don’t have much sympathy for RPers and fashion scrolls players who complain about items being too expensive, especially considering that RPers and fashion scrolls players are the ones paying so much money for these rare items causing them to increase in price in the first place. And I say this as someone who genuinely enjoys those elements of the game.

ZOS made a deliberate decision to include rare items in this game (as pretty much all games have). The outcome of that is you will either have to complete difficult content to get, grind for it, or if you don’t want to do that, pay a large amount of gold to someone else who did.

There are also many furnishings locked behind specific achievements from all aspects of the game (throne of Cyrodiil, litany of blood, undaunted busts etc.). This is clearly intended, and I for one agree with it.

I agree with certain items being rare, like the throne of Cyrodiil, which I actually do have, and like that being rare But we are talking about a platform here, which is something that many builders actually need. In my opinion, they knew many housing people would need this item when they locked it behind a vet dungeon, which is why they also made this item almost 600 crowns to purchase on the crown store! Do you know of any other rare furnishing on the crown store??

jaws343

Elara_Northwind wrote: »

It just feels strange to lock rare furnishing plans behind dungeons, and then those furnishing plans fall into the wrong hands, and people who have busy real lives are having to farm gold for days to give to greedy traders just to get these plans! Its quite ridiculous.

But, aren't these people who are completing the dungeon also spending days to learn and farm the dungeon to even get the plans. Why shouldn't they charge whatever amount of gold they value their time at?

Elara_Northwind

redspecter23 wrote: »

Elara_Northwind wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Unless it's bound on pickup, I don't see the issue. It's not something you can't acquire at all. It's something you can buy for gold which is good. It promotes a healthy economy. Those that run dungeons have an incentive. A reward that they may not necessarily want but which is in high demand. To me, it's no different than a dungeon motif page.

On the other side of that coin, I'm not very much into housing but a few months ago I paid someone quite a substantial amount of gold to decorate my house and they did an amazing job. They provided a service that I had no interest in doing myself and were compensated for it. They could then use that gold on any number of things... including furnishing plans that they may not be able to loot themselves.

Also note that just because something can be acquired through a certain activity, it doesn't guarantee that you will ever get it. I kill overland mobs every day and have never pulled an Aetheric Cipher. I happily bought one from someone that did get it though. I have every opportunity to get one myself but after 3+ years it just hasn't happened yet.

There is promoting a healthy economy, and then there is fleecing people sometimes up to 6 million gold for a rare item, which that person could easily have been able to farm themselves, had they been able to.

Maybe I am caring too much about this, because as I said before, it doesn't affect me, I can complete the vet dungeons fine, but I don't like to see people taken advantage of. I am the kind of person who decorates peoples homes for free because I feel like we should all help eachother in this game, that is how I look at it, which is why I made this post to stand up for those who are indeed being taken advantage of on a regular basis, which could be stopped simply by making the plans obtainable in normal dungeons too, which would still be a challenge for many of the people who need these plans.

The issue then is that the item is too rare in general, not that it's in a hard to complete dungeon. If it were 100 times as common but still only available in the veteran dungeon, would that be ok? Or the alternative. Make it available in the normal version but make it 100 times as rare a drop in normal. In my first example, the price would actually drop. In the second example, simply adding it to easier content doesn't necessarily affect the price. An item can be insanely rare even if it drops in very easy content. Going back to my previous post, anyone can kill an overland mob. It's not a difficult thing to do but Aetheric Cipher is still very rare and still very expensive.

TLDR, adding an item to easier content won't necessarily affect the price if that item has an insanely low drop rate anyway. You need to alter the supply and demand equation in order to affect the price. What you would need to do is increase the supply or decrease the demand.

Either of those suggestions would be great and make this item, which is available on the crown store at an extortionate price too, much more obtainable. As it is now, it's just ridiculous.

MLGProPlayer

Elara_Northwind wrote: »

Would you lock a new rare weapon behind a housing or (I know they don't exist but) a roleplaying achievement? Would you introduce a new epic set which can only be obtained through fishing, but also so rare that you would need to fish for days to get one piece? It's almost like ZOS don't seem to realise that there are a huge amount of different players who play this game, not everybody is into the same thing, which is what makes this game so wonderfully diverse in the first place. Why make these plans so rare, and why lock them (or the most chance to get them) behind vet hm dungeons, when the majority of the people who want to use these plans don't do vet, or in some cases even normal dungeons, because they physically feel like they can't.

To be fair. A lot of BiS gear has been crafted in the past. BiS food recipes have also dropped from fishing in the past.

I'm fine with putting valuable things in a variety of content (as long as it's tradeable). It keeps people doing that content. I don't craft or fish for example, so I would pay people who do for those items.

The bigger issue here is the insanely low drop rate on furniture recipes.

Elara_Northwind

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Elara_Northwind wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

What are you referring to specifically? And how is it currently obtained? I don’t think I’ve ever seen a vet HM final boss drop any furnishing plans.

The furnishing plans are rarely obtained in containers in the new dungeons.

In that case hard mode would not affect their drop rate, since the game doesn’t even know if you plan to do HM until you get to the final boss. I’m not even sure Normal vs Vet affects the drops in most container types, just locked chests and boss drops AFAIK.

It does affect their drop rate, ZOS specifically said that it does.

Elara_Northwind

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Elara_Northwind wrote: »

Would you lock a new rare weapon behind a housing or (I know they don't exist but) a roleplaying achievement? Would you introduce a new epic set which can only be obtained through fishing, but also so rare that you would need to fish for days to get one piece? It's almost like ZOS don't seem to realise that there are a huge amount of different players who play this game, not everybody is into the same thing, which is what makes this game so wonderfully diverse in the first place. Why make these plans so rare, and why lock them (or the most chance to get them) behind vet hm dungeons, when the majority of the people who want to use these plans don't do vet, or in some cases even normal dungeons, because they physically feel like they can't.

To be fair. A lot of BiS gear has been crafted in the past. BiS food recipes have also dropped from fishing in the past.

I'm fine with putting valuable things in a variety of content (as long as it's tradeable). It keeps people doing that content. I don't craft or fish for example, so I would buy crafted gear or fished recipes.

The bigger issue here is the insanely low drop rate on furniture recipes.

That is very true, but you couldn't just buy those items with crowns like you can with this platform... It seems weird to me that ZOS locked it behind a vet dungeon, which they probably knew allot of housing people wouldn't be able to complete, and then bumped the price up on the crown store. This is nothing but a money making ploy by them IMO. If I find the plan I will craft hundreds of them and sell them all for 10 gold, just to get my own back on those pesky traders and the greedy crown store dudes at ZOS

IndianaJames7

Elara_Northwind wrote: »

I agree with certain items being rare, like the throne of Cyrodiil, which I actually do have, and like that being rare But we are talking about a platform here, which is something that many builders actually need. In my opinion, they knew many housing people would need this item when they locked it behind a vet dungeon, which is why they also made this item almost 600 crowns to purchase on the crown store! Do you know of any other rare furnishing on the crown store??

In fact I know of many rare furnishings found exclusively in the crown store. I have several of them in my primary residence. But now that you bring it up, this revenue stream may have something to do with the ridiculously low rng certain furnishing items have. Much easier to pay a couple thousand crowns for a bound furnishing than endlessly search the corners of Tamriel or pay millions of gold to get one.

Edit for autocorrect resulting in bad grammar

Holmarion19

Not sure what exactly you are referring to here Elara (love your homes and vids btw;)

If it's the "Elsweyr Platform Ancient Rectangular" then on EU yes, the plans are very expensive in Guild traders. If you only want a few items though then the actual furnishings, according to TTC, are being sold for between 14 and 25k each which does not seem unreasonable.

Elara_Northwind

jypcy wrote: »

In fairness, I don’t think the furnishings can be locked behind HM. HM is always a setting or condition associated exclusively with the last boss fight, so unless activating/fulfilling it then resets all of the containers from which you can loot these furnishings throughout the dungeon you just completed, at most they can be “locked” behind vet.

Even then I don’t know whether there’s truly a disparity in rarity between normal and vet. After all, in my experience, these are simply exceedingly rare. Despite vet dlc content being practically the only content I run in the game any more, I’ve only ever seen one such furnishing looted and that was by a group member (I did loot one myself from FL but that was on PTS, so idk if it counts haha). But only seeing 1-2 over the past roughly two years of running vet dlc dungeons numerous times a week? That seems statistically possible that someone who ran as much as I do but only on normal might never see any, even if they have the same drop chance regardless of difficulty, and so come to your conclusion.

Also, worth noting that there is at least one meta endgame food recipe locked behind dlc fishing, and that’s even bind on pickup.

Plus, I don’t think putting these items in dungeons is meant to cater to “greedy endgamers” at the cost of housing enthusiasts. Rather, I imagine the intent is to encourage players who might not otherwise run the new dungeon content (e.g., housing enthusiasts) an incentive to go in and give it a try, seeing as they might not be drawn by the challenge or item sets. On the flip side, finding a cool new furnishing can give an end gamer an incentive to try out housing. Rather than divide the community, it seems to me intended to create a bridge between potentially isolated playstyles (albeit arguably a poorly implemented one).

Still, my understanding is that your argument should be focused more on the rarity of these furnishing for everyone instead of making it an us vs them fight, because if my case is in any way indicative of the standard for endgamers, these furnishings are practically nonexistent even to “them”.

Yes, I didn't mean for it to come across as an us vs them, so sorry if that's how it appeared, I agree that we all play this game together and I would like to see this plan become easier to farm for everybody! It's great that it's rare, but rare is an understatement as it is now. I just know that allot of housing people honestly feel like they can't do these dungeons even on normal! ZOS stated that these new furnishings have a higher drop rate on Vet and HM, so perhaps the last boss can drop a plan? I'm not sure, I am still yet to find one. This is why I bought up the housing people, because I know that many people who want these plans are farming gold daily to make the money to buy them, because they are so rare that the prices for them are ridiculous.

Elara_Northwind

IndianaJames7 wrote: »

Elara_Northwind wrote: »

I agree with certain items being rare, like the throne of Cyrodiil, which I actually do have, and like that being rare But we are talking about a platform here, which is something that many builders actually need. In my opinion, they knew many housing people would need this item when they locked it behind a vet dungeon, which is why they also made this item almost 600 crowns to purchase on the crown store! Do you know of any other rare furnishing on the crown store??

I’m fact I know of many rare furnishings found exclusively in the crown store. I have several of them in my primary residence. But now that you bring it up, this revenue stream may have something to do with the ridiculously low rng certain furnishing items have. Much easier to pay a couple thousand crowns for a bound furnishing than endlessly search the corners of Tamriel or pay millions of gold to get one.

Yes, there are actually a few more come to think of it, like the cheese wheel... I think that was a few million gold last time I checked It does seem odd that rare furnishings would be on the crown store, and at a really bumped up price.