ESO Population Declining @ SteamCharts

StormeReigns

bluebird wrote: »

SkerKro wrote: »

bluebird wrote: »

SkerKro wrote: »

bluebird wrote: »

To all the people arguing about Steam: it doesn't matter, and doesn't take away from OP's point.

If he was making the case that the game's population is under 20k (based on the Steam figures only) then yes that would obviously be a mistake because Steam doesn't reflect all people playing on the other platforms.

But when talking about trends, you'd have to make the rather unlikely case that Steam users are a magical and mysterious type of player who behave differently from everyone else (e.g.if you really think that Xbox and the ESO Launcher have a different playerbase that still maintains as high numbers as they did in June and aren't affected by the player dropoff like Steam is).

So no, unless proven otherwise that would indicate that the different platforms have mysteriously different behaviors that aren't affected by the same trends, seeing the stats for Steam should be representative enough of the game's popularity. And yes the game's popularity is decreasing. Now, it remains to be seen whether it will pick up again when the next DLC drops - seeing the dramatic nerfs of Dragolhold that will be interesting to see - but for now yes the game pretty much already lost as many players as it gained during the Chapter's successful release (was 13k average before the Chapter, 17k during the Chapter, and now back to 12k average). If you had data from other platforms, they would likely tell the same story.

Despite the OP's willingness to leave out common information that effects both NA and EU. Like that the months with the lower population readings are during high travel, vacation and holiday peek times. While the higher months are often known to not have any substantial break time longer then a few days or a week or two and common for standard school and business months (depending on states and counties / countries) not including other real world situations that may arise that can effect the chart at any given moment

If Beth/ZoS claim is correct on 13mil + active accounts/Players across all platforms, the steam chart is a fraction of what is really happening / good or bad and still remains a non issue and the OP's point is absolutely and will remain moot without having a combined total of numbers across all platforms for the past 6 months and 5 years to dictate if a trend is really happening or not.

ESO does not have 13mill acive accounts. It baffles me that some people could even believe that. That is 13 millions accounts, across all platforms, that have been ever created in the past 5 years in total. Not active accounts. So it includes free accounts that logged in for one day when the game was free to try, but never logged back. It includes people who tried the game at launch but deleted it immediately and haven't been back in 5 years. It includes bots and secondary accounts for people who started on PS but moved to PC or just made another account. It is not active players. So please @SkerKro don't cite the '13 million active players/accounts' statistic because it was never about acitve players/accounts.

And regarding your high travel and vacation times, it really makes no difference. In June 2018 average Steam player count increased by 4k. In July it fell by 2k and in August it went up again by 1k. In 2019 it has been falling since May with no increase. Or are you suggesting that in 2019 way more people went on vacation than in 2018 so that's the reason more people stopped playing? In September 2018, ESO still had 2k more average Steam users than it did before the Chapter launched (12k in Sept vs 10k in May with a June peak of 15k) while in 2019 we already lost way more people (we're already back to 12k after a 17k May).

Also, if you look at the trends, the post-Elsweyr drop over the past three months was a far greater decrease in player engagement than any other drop ESO had since 2016! This year dropped by 32% since May, while others summer declines are around 18-26%.

Still absolute moot and remains, and forever will be a non issue, without having concrete evidence and undeniable access to all the numbers from start to now on every platform (Steam, PC, Console)this thread is simply a bias speculation bait page to gather +1s to be mindlessly linked to at a future date to "back up" other troll threads. Also if you read it correclt, I stated and quote "IF" their "claim is correct." And as such, to ignore real world unexpected situations (good and bad for any game and genre) that happen on a daily occurrence only focusing on the narrow personal experience and bias view point(s) of a handful truly shows and dictates the true intention of this thread as pure baiting.

Yes you said 'if' their claim is correct but the claim was never about 13 million active players. That's what I pointed out.
Also, there is nothing trolling about this thread. OP pointed out facts. They did lose more players over this summer than they lost over any other summer. So neither vacations nor platforms are are of any impact on this because it's all the same statistic in the same time of year.

And as stated earlier, Steam statistics can absolutely be taken as representative for the whole (when it comes to trends, not to numbers obviously), until someone actually makes a good argument for why we should believe that other platforms of ESO have a different playerbase that acts and reacts differently.

OP pointed out a fraction that is a non issue, because it only focuses on steam and a single server not all and all platforms - until all information can be obtained and everything can be presented, it will remain a non issue and a bias speculation.

So dancing around and willingly and fully ignoring the other part as well. So real world situations don't have implications either? Interesting to not comment on this, or just refusing to. Interesting to say that travel, school, vacations, graduations, loss of job/career, new job/career, even a simple concept of boredom; practically anything that can effect a single person to thousands at any given moment and can change daily, weekly, monthly and yearly cannot contribute to players coming or going. Would honestly love to see the statistics behind this to prove that life itself, cannot contribute, and only and solely that Steam numbers are a 100% accurate depiction of every player current playing and has played ESO since launch.

Neoealth

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Neoealth wrote: »

Don't understand all the hate towards steam really.

I hate Steam... not only with regards to ESO.
That thing is spying on me all the time, I have to go through a gazillion of settings to make sure the people I want to see me do see me - and people that I don't want to see me online don't, it's ocnstantly updating something, it's constantly throwing ad windows at me, etc...
They're okay as a shopping platform, with wide ranges of games and great sales and prices and all, but they're too intrusive. I might feel normal for younger generations, who feel ok, or even happy, with being in "on display for the whole world to see" as soon as they're on the internet, but it's not my thing. And it does not matter whether you launch the game via Steam or via eso64.exe : Steam still knows what you're doing. I just hate this behaviour.

And with ESO, it causes a whole range of problems, depending on whether you bought the game on steam before a certain date, or after a certain date, or if you've simply linked your accounts there.

You sound a tad paranoid my good fello.

Steam does give you the ability to appear offline to people. You can make your entire profile private if you wish.

Sharee

Wow classic came out. It seems to be popular beyond expectations. That has to have an impact. I'm there as well, for time being. I'll return later tho. So don't get your panties in a bunch over a temporary eso population dip.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Neoealth wrote: »

You sound a tad paranoid my good fello.
Steam does give you the ability to appear offline to people. You can make your entire profile private if you wish.

1/ The default is visible
2/ It collects data about what games I play, when and how, for all to see by default
3/ It lets me be offline / invisible to EVERYONE or NOBODY, not to chosen people.
4/ A lot a features are not available if you're invisible.

Khodiac

it will keep declining with those stupid update nerfing they do , they should just leave it alone

Kilnerdyne

You've come to the wrong place if your intention was to warn Zenimax & the player base about making lackadaisical and routinely erroneous changes to the Combat & Gameplay with the attitude of "let's see what this does".

Here you will only find staunch institutionalized defenders and company associated accounts who play blind, deaf and dumb to any protests against the constant prodigious alterations.

Best off using a more neutral forum platform to share your disputations than posting here.

Khodiac

Kilnerdyne wrote: »

You've come to the wrong place if your intention was to warn Zenimax & the player base about making lackadaisical and routinely erroneous changes to the Combat & Gameplay with the attitude of "let's see what this does".

Here you will only find staunch institutionalized defenders and company associated accounts who play blind, deaf and dumb to any protests against the constant prodigious alterations.

Best off using a more neutral forum platform to share your disputations than posting here.

i think its time for a youtube video to talk about zenimax for real , like some are complaining but now its out of hands they doing drastical change and *** every class , build , time you invested for no aperant reason , you dont feel fun to play anymore and thats becuz zos are not listening to us , players that stilk want to beleive this game is good

Tandor

Wayshuba wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Again declining? That chart shows a continued growth year over year so to say it is declining again is a false statement for dramatic purposes.

I must be missing something. The displayed chart goes back one year to August. From Aug 2018 to August 2019 it is showing a 22% decline. So I don't know where in the chart it is showing continued growth.

There are growth spikes, yes, but definitely not continued or sustainable growth.

You are indeed missing something, namely the link to the chart immediately below the picture of a bit of it.

Tandor

Kilnerdyne wrote: »

You've come to the wrong place if your intention was to warn Zenimax & the player base about making lackadaisical and routinely erroneous changes to the Combat & Gameplay with the attitude of "let's see what this does".

Here you will only find staunch institutionalized defenders and company associated accounts who play blind, deaf and dumb to any protests against the constant prodigious alterations.

Best off using a more neutral forum platform to share your disputations than posting here.

Don't forget that they are balanced out by the institutionalized haters and rival company associated accounts !

Kilnerdyne

Pointing out an ironic and inordinately powerful parallelism comparable to the current game situation, there is (nor has there ever been) balance on these forums. But alas in all walks of life there are those who will believe no matter the evidence.

Tandor

Kilnerdyne wrote: »

Pointing out an ironic and inordinately powerful parallelism comparable to the current game situation, there is (nor has there ever been) balance on these forums. But alas in all walks of life there are those who will believe no matter the evidence.

People believe on the basis of their own experience - that is the only evidence that matters directly to them however sympathetic they may be to the experience of others. The main problem with any forum is that someone who has one experience assumes that everyone else must have the very same experience, and roundly criticises them when they claim a different experience, often branding them as liars, too stupid to know what their experience is, or in the pay of those behind the whole thing.

However, in a game like ESO for example, different people play it differently and so have different experiences - so that someone who only does overland PvE content won't have the same experience of the game's performance or skill changes as someone who only does Cyrodiil PvP or Trials. It's the inability or unwillingness to recognise this that lies behind most of the toxicity on this forum.

bluebird

SkerKro wrote: »

bluebird wrote: »

SkerKro wrote: »

bluebird wrote: »

SkerKro wrote: »

bluebird wrote: »

To all the people arguing about Steam: it doesn't matter, and doesn't take away from OP's point.

If he was making the case that the game's population is under 20k (based on the Steam figures only) then yes that would obviously be a mistake because Steam doesn't reflect all people playing on the other platforms.

But when talking about trends, you'd have to make the rather unlikely case that Steam users are a magical and mysterious type of player who behave differently from everyone else (e.g.if you really think that Xbox and the ESO Launcher have a different playerbase that still maintains as high numbers as they did in June and aren't affected by the player dropoff like Steam is).

So no, unless proven otherwise that would indicate that the different platforms have mysteriously different behaviors that aren't affected by the same trends, seeing the stats for Steam should be representative enough of the game's popularity. And yes the game's popularity is decreasing. Now, it remains to be seen whether it will pick up again when the next DLC drops - seeing the dramatic nerfs of Dragolhold that will be interesting to see - but for now yes the game pretty much already lost as many players as it gained during the Chapter's successful release (was 13k average before the Chapter, 17k during the Chapter, and now back to 12k average). If you had data from other platforms, they would likely tell the same story.

Despite the OP's willingness to leave out common information that effects both NA and EU. Like that the months with the lower population readings are during high travel, vacation and holiday peek times. While the higher months are often known to not have any substantial break time longer then a few days or a week or two and common for standard school and business months (depending on states and counties / countries) not including other real world situations that may arise that can effect the chart at any given moment

If Beth/ZoS claim is correct on 13mil + active accounts/Players across all platforms, the steam chart is a fraction of what is really happening / good or bad and still remains a non issue and the OP's point is absolutely and will remain moot without having a combined total of numbers across all platforms for the past 6 months and 5 years to dictate if a trend is really happening or not.

ESO does not have 13mill acive accounts. It baffles me that some people could even believe that. That is 13 millions accounts, across all platforms, that have been ever created in the past 5 years in total. Not active accounts. So it includes free accounts that logged in for one day when the game was free to try, but never logged back. It includes people who tried the game at launch but deleted it immediately and haven't been back in 5 years. It includes bots and secondary accounts for people who started on PS but moved to PC or just made another account. It is not active players. So please @SkerKro don't cite the '13 million active players/accounts' statistic because it was never about acitve players/accounts.

And regarding your high travel and vacation times, it really makes no difference. In June 2018 average Steam player count increased by 4k. In July it fell by 2k and in August it went up again by 1k. In 2019 it has been falling since May with no increase. Or are you suggesting that in 2019 way more people went on vacation than in 2018 so that's the reason more people stopped playing? In September 2018, ESO still had 2k more average Steam users than it did before the Chapter launched (12k in Sept vs 10k in May with a June peak of 15k) while in 2019 we already lost way more people (we're already back to 12k after a 17k May).

Also, if you look at the trends, the post-Elsweyr drop over the past three months was a far greater decrease in player engagement than any other drop ESO had since 2016! This year dropped by 32% since May, while others summer declines are around 18-26%.

Still absolute moot and remains, and forever will be a non issue, without having concrete evidence and undeniable access to all the numbers from start to now on every platform (Steam, PC, Console)this thread is simply a bias speculation bait page to gather +1s to be mindlessly linked to at a future date to "back up" other troll threads. Also if you read it correclt, I stated and quote "IF" their "claim is correct." And as such, to ignore real world unexpected situations (good and bad for any game and genre) that happen on a daily occurrence only focusing on the narrow personal experience and bias view point(s) of a handful truly shows and dictates the true intention of this thread as pure baiting.

Yes you said 'if' their claim is correct but the claim was never about 13 million active players. That's what I pointed out.
Also, there is nothing trolling about this thread. OP pointed out facts. They did lose more players over this summer than they lost over any other summer. So neither vacations nor platforms are are of any impact on this because it's all the same statistic in the same time of year.

And as stated earlier, Steam statistics can absolutely be taken as representative for the whole (when it comes to trends, not to numbers obviously), until someone actually makes a good argument for why we should believe that other platforms of ESO have a different playerbase that acts and reacts differently.

OP pointed out a fraction that is a non issue, because it only focuses on steam and a single server not all and all platforms

There is nothing to indicate that the game's popularity on Xbox or PS4 or ESO's Launcher would be any different than on Steam. Whatever gives you the idea that player behavior varies widely across platforms? Because when there is a decline in a game's popularity on one platform that documents the statistics, the rational response isn't to assume that 'Im sure the other platforms that don't publish statistics are doing very well and aren't experiencing this decline, so I'll just label OP a troll!'

The data that we do have about the game (documented by Steam) shows a loss of interest after the Chapter fizzled out (common sense would also have come up with that prediction) so until there is any other data from the other platforms that shows that they behave drastically differently from Steam players, we can safely assume that all other platforms have been experiecing a similar drop after the Chapter. It's not a bias speculation, it's a common sense extrapolation.

SkerKro wrote: »

So real world situations don't have implications either? Interesting to not comment on this, or just refusing to. Interesting to say that travel, school, vacations, graduations, loss of job/career, new job/career, even a simple concept of boredom; practically anything that can effect a single person to thousands at any given moment and can change daily, weekly, monthly and yearly cannot contribute to players coming or going.

I addressed this. You tried to make the far-fetched case that holidays or vacations or something account for the decline in Steam players. But I pointed out that the Steam statistics show you data from the same platform, and from the same time of year, and whereas average player numbers fell by 1k during the Summer of 2018 (rising in June, falling in July, rising in August), they fell by 4k during the Summer of 2019 (falling in June, falling in July, falling in August). Are you really going to try to make the case that a hell of a lot more people went on vacation in 2019? Or that ESO players were hit by massive graduation/job/career changes over the summer of 2019 but not during 2018? And they would all still love to play if only they could if real life let them?

No, come on. The same way we don't try to find airy-fairy excuses for the rise in numbers that generally happens when Chapters are released (oh, I'm sure a lot of people got hit with unemployment so they just have more time to waste during the day, it has nothing to do with a new Chapter), you also shouldn't try to explain away a clear decline in players after the hype dies down (oh, I'm sure all those people would still love to play the Chapter months later, they're just on vacation).

SkerKro wrote: »

Would honestly love to see the statistics behind this to prove that life itself, cannot contribute, and only and solely that Steam numbers are a 100% accurate depiction of every player current playing and has played ESO since launch.

It clearly says 'average' right there. I also repeatedly mentioned that this is an average. So no, obviously those trends aren't a 100% accurate depiction of every player that ever played, lol. Trends are never a depiction of every surveyed person and whatever individual real life issues they have; they're a collection of data, on average. It is a rather sad reflection on this discussion that this is the bar that we're setting now.

Kilnerdyne

Assumptions that player's views and opinions about the game are too narrow or too clouded isn't why such a pernicious milieu has been generated here. It's because of the reckless and often careless way grandiose combat and gameplay changes are made on a tri-annual schedule, backed up by tireless watchdogs, protectors and yes-men who believe they can do no wrong. The persistent castigation of anyone questioning this rhetoric confirms that the only recourse against these truths is attack.

Maxx7410

I use steam for eso and have no problem now i played 2000+ hrs

Alcast

After a Chapter there is always a dip to a lower amount of players. Though I do agree, they could definitely do a better job on keep the endgame folks happy.



Do not forget, only a small amount of ppl actually use the steam launcher, so the data is flawed anyway.

ToRelax

Kilnerdyne wrote: »

Assumptions that player's views and opinions about the game are too narrow or too clouded isn't why such a pernicious milieu has been generated here. It's because of the reckless and often careless way grandiose combat and gameplay changes are made on a tri-annual schedule, backed up by tireless watchdogs, protectors and yes-men who believe they can do no wrong. The persistent castigation of anyone questioning this rhetoric confirms that the only recourse against these truths is attack.

People cry nerf with every change perceived to be affecting them, whether negative or not. Clearly our experiences on this forum differ.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

Lord_Eomer wrote: »

ZOS is again on a wrong track, nerfing everything and letting players leave ESO.

Lack of good contents are also to blame, players are asking for new Solo Arena or Duo but Q4 DLC becomes such a disappointment.

I have also taken a break from ESO, will get back once ZOS start putting things back on track.

Your argument has many flaws.
a) You assume Steam numbers represent reality. Far from it as Steam ESO users are a minority on PC in relation to all the ESO players.

b) Those bought the game through Steam until 2016 were able to switch client and ditch Steam all together. The rest are stuck on an issues fest platform which numerous times the last 6 months couldn't allow players to log in for whole on evenings. (especially from Oceania region)

c) Numbers on the summer always drop, because well. It's summer and people don't stay in front of their PC.

Elsonso

Iskiab wrote: »

There was a big ESO promotion on steam during summerset. Thank god I read the forums and bought it direct, but there was a big wave of new players from then.

Anyways, point being no promotion will lead to less activity.

Good point. I don't pay much attention to promotions on Steam. I spend most of my Steam life in "offline" mode.

Jaraal wrote: »

So, what are you folks saying that Steam users are just a small portion of the total player base trying to infer? That even though Steam metrics show a steady decline in log-ins over the last few months, that maybe console players and eso.exe players are increasing? Sure, it may be a small sampling, but if you think Steam players are just some kind of special snowflakes that don't really represent the overall mood of ESO players in general, you'd be sadly mistaken.

This is why political polls are often wrong. Assumptions are made about how a distinctly minority population represents the larger population. Steam is not a random subset of the population. They are being driven by different influences at different times. Behavior patterns may change based on other factors not present in Console or non-Steam environments. In other words, the overall game popularity trends across all platforms and geographies may be entirely different than what is shown on Steam Charts, and we have no way of knowing.

Only ZOS has the big picture. They have their own numbers, and their numbers that are far more accurate than Steam Charts. You can be absolutely sure that they are watching their numbers closely.

Tandor wrote: »

People believe on the basis of their own experience - that is the only evidence that matters directly to them however sympathetic they may be to the experience of others. The main problem with any forum is that someone who has one experience assumes that everyone else must have the very same experience, and roundly criticises them when they claim a different experience, often branding them as liars, too stupid to know what their experience is, or in the pay of those behind the whole thing.

A type of cognitive bias. We all have it. I see it a lot in the forum when talking about game problems and the future of ESO. When the bias is negative, that is usually when threads like this pop up showing Steam Charts. Steam Charts usually only get posted by someone wishing to bolster whatever opinion they have about the future of ESO. If the demise of ESO was able to be predicted by a negative trend in Steam Charts, ESO would have closed up years ago.

Over 13 million paying players have passed through the ESO turnstiles in the last 5 years. That is not something to be belittled (not that people don't try... negative cognitive bias at work). Combat in ESO is very different from what it was back in 2014, and many of those changes were heralded in the forum as the end of the game. Chasing away end-game players. Too hard for new players. Death of raiding. Death of PVP (well, maybe that ended up being right, but not for those reasons). Remember when a streamer had a funeral for his character? Despite all of this doom and gloom and predictions of failure, over 13 million players have tried ESO, and last year was apparently the best year every.

It is going to take more than the combat changes in this update to kill ESO.

Ri_Khan

To everyone that keeps saying that Steam info doesn't correlate to the general population of the game, just stfu already. Go back to math class and learn how statistics work. We're talking about 20-30k people here. Maybe if some of you actually left your parents' basement once in a while you'd realize that's a f-ton of people. It's more than enough to make basic assumptions about the population over-all.

Elsonso

Ri_Khan wrote: »

To everyone that keeps saying that Steam info doesn't correlate to the general population of the game, just stfu already. Go back to math class and learn how statistics work. We're talking about 20-30k people here. Maybe if some of you actually left your parents' basement once in a while you'd realize that's a f-ton of people. It's more than enough to make basic assumptions about the population over-all.

Those numbers you are talking about are related to the statistically significant population for the question being asked, not the sample size relative to the larger population.

For example, if you poll 100 random people out of 1000 and 75% of them test out to be left handed, then is it reasonable to assume that ~750 of the 1000 people are left handed? No, and if that was the question, then the sample population is probably wrong. If the question is how many of them prefer white milk over chocolate milk, then handedness probably does not matter, and the sample might be acceptable. Although, further testing may indicate that left handed people prefer chocolate milk.

In this case of trends in how many people are logging into the game, I do not believe that the Steam environment is statistically representative of the overall game population. I don't believe that now, when used to show "demise", and I did not believe it in the past, when used to show "success".

All those numbers show are statistics among Steam players.

StormeReigns

Ri_Khan wrote: »

To everyone that keeps saying that Steam info doesn't correlate to the general population of the game, just stfu already. Go back to math class and learn how statistics work. We're talking about 20-30k people here. Maybe if some of you actually left your parents' basement once in a while you'd realize that's a f-ton of people. It's more than enough to make basic assumptions about the population over-all.

Here's the difference between you and others. Others, like @bluebird who kept it civil, and used logic and plausibility. Yes, I dont share the same opinion or agree with what they offered and suggested. Although they offered it in a manner to be believed and sound, and offered insight their view and broke down what the op is suggesting, even when given simplicity to extremes.

You, @Ri_Khan on the other hand, are demanding to have everyone accept what was presented as infallible evidence at face value with no questions asked in a demeaning and belittling manner further suggests, you should be the one to crawl out of the basement and present the evidence required to back up the claim. Might be a bit much given how your most recent reactions is here.

Might need some love in your life.
https://youtu.be/Gs069dndIYk

karekiz

1. Of course steam is a highly useful tool for determining overall player base. TSW players used to say the exact same things as many posters here right up till they had to relaunch the game <Right down to "It didn't launch with Steam">.

Fact is: Steam regardless if you like it. If it "works" with ESO <I use steam and honestly haven't had problems since Summer set era when it was really bad>. They are infact one of the higher Digital Distribution for games on the market. Someone interested in purchasing ESO seeing the game for sale for cheap <10-20 USD> will most likely *NOT* go around and read random threads about how it works with the client. Its just not how impulse purchases work, and I would wager those are a massive amount of players.

2. ESO is also a console game. ESO Console has less competition <A console player - Primarily only plays console - would be less drawn to Classsic WoW vs a PC player due to various reasons>. However population is split between consoles so it can be wonky.

3. While ESO isn't dead nor is it close, I expect people to leave with bad patches. Nerfs are considered bad by many players regardlesss if they are warranted or not. Nobody wants to spend an extra hour or two wiping on content they previously cleared within an hour. <Targeted at mostly casual progression guilds>

MLGProPlayer

ArchMikem wrote: »

Do you realize how many people don't play using the Steam Launcher? As well as Console players? Steam should not be used as the only standard in measuring success.

Steam has more than enough players to be able to reliably extrapolate the population trends to the entire game.

MLGProPlayer

Player retention has certainly gotten worse over last year.

We went from 15.5k online when Summerset came out last year to 12.5k in September.

This year, we went from 17.8k when Elsweyr came out, down to the same 12.5k in September. You would expect growth from last September to this September, but there hasn't been any.

Vhozek

tEn mILliOn 🅱️LaYerS

danno8

Lord_Eomer wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

numbers seem pretty consistent not sure it really proves what your trying to say, also not everyone uses steam, and even less launch from it

What do you say then about March, April, May?

I posted for players information only, not going to debate.

What do you say about September October November and December. You can't just cherry pick the last couple of months of data to prove your point while ignoring the longer term data. This isn't the US congressional hearings on climate change.

Here is a more complete snip for those who didn't bother to click on your link:

StormeReigns

So according to steam and math. The total amount of players combining all platforms as of now and today and forever will never be higher than:

10884.83

Vhozek

SkerKro wrote: »

So according to steam and math. The total amount of players combining all platforms as of now and today and forever will never be higher than:

10884.83

It doesn't make it 10 million even if you play with the decimal.

danno8

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Player retention has certainly gotten worse over last year.

We went from 15.5k online when Summerset came out last year to 12.5k in September.

This year, we went from 17.8k when Elsweyr came out, down to the same 12.5k in September. You would expect growth from last September to this September, but there hasn't been any.

Ermmm...you just gave numbers that showed that more people came back for Elsweyr than for Summerset. That IS growth. Sure they all left again, leaving a similar base but from a marketing standpoint Elsweyr generated 75% more players playing the game than Summerset did.

If you ran a festival that turned out 75% more people this year than last you would consider that a huge success, it hardly matters that they are all gone now that the festival is over.

And all this decline in the last few months relating back to the current patch notes that have been out for a week is just...I don't even think the OP can truly believe that connection.

MLGProPlayer

danno8 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Player retention has certainly gotten worse over last year.

We went from 15.5k online when Summerset came out last year to 12.5k in September.

This year, we went from 17.8k when Elsweyr came out, down to the same 12.5k in September. You would expect growth from last September to this September, but there hasn't been any.

Ermmm...you just gave numbers that showed that more people came back for Elsweyr than for Summerset. That IS growth. Sure they all left again, leaving a similar base but from a marketing standpoint Elsweyr generated 75% more players playing the game than Summerset did.

If you ran a festival that turned out 75% more people this year than last you would consider that a huge success, it hardly matters that they are all gone now that the festival is over.

And all this decline in the last few months relating back to the current patch notes that have been out for a week is just...I don't even think the OP can truly believe that connection.

Population growth and player retention are crucial to MMO health. The fact that ZOS wasn't able to retain any of those new players and grow the population from last year is at least a bit worrying