Transition Period, Calm down

Gahmerdohn

Transition: "change or passage from one state or stage to another"
Transition Period: "the period of time during which something changes from one state or stage to another ".

ESO is actually in a transition period and Update 23, Update 24 are part of it, maybe till Update 27 a lot of changes will happen in the game, Up and down, back and forth. Dev's will test things to find out the best recipe for the game.

Trial and error is a fundamental method of problem-solving and it requires TIME.

Till the moment that they figure out what to do with the champion system and make all systems works together well

Cp system (or any new system taking its place) + Skills + Sets + Adjusting the content

Don't expect any "everything is fine", the game will shake a lot, but that is the nature of any transition period when trying to find a better solution.

As players, our role in this is to provide feedback in a way that helps them to navigate better in that mess testing the changes and explain the results we have to show what is broken, what is really bad, what is actually an improvement.

And this can be done without insulting each other or the dev's folks...

This update has a lot of things that are actually improvements and many things that still need a lot of work to improve.

Screaming at each other and raging may be fun to some of you (at least it looks like it) but it's totally useless...

DO your testings, give feedback, Explain your result and give your opinion concerning those results

And this transition period will be shorter, It's understandable that some of you feel bad about certain thing, I do as well and it's okay to feel bad about certain things, of course, but crowding the forum with hatred doesn't help at all. It just makes everything confused and tedious!

ZOS is a small team compared to other MMO big development studios and it's also a young one, keep that in mind

IF you don't want to help because "you're paying for it", "it's their job to know what to do" think about how well yourself is performing at your job in which somebody pays you for...

SO just do what you have to do during this transition period and try to be human at least IRL... quality lost for long on these forums.

Everything will be fine folks, breathe!

Jaimeh

The problem is these transition periods happens every couple of months, they are becoming tiresome, along with the events system...

Gahmerdohn

that's true but we share the blame for this, try to read the forums from an external perspective you 'll see that the player base looks bipolar in so many instances. It's hard to navigate in this and find meaningful information that could help.

Gilvoth

this transition period is going to cause alot of needed maintenance in the way we do damage because right now lagg and high ping is the only thing holding back our ability to insta kill eachother in pvp.
like i said years ago:
if they ever DO fix the lagg ineso pvp it will destroy the game because the lagg is the only thing holding back the damage we do in pvp.
it laggs out the actual high damage output amount and makes it look like alot less.
if lagg is fixed, they will have to remove 80% of the damage we do and completely rebuild the entire damage system.

xWarbrain

Gilvoth wrote: »

this transition period is going to cause alot of needed maintenance in the way we do damage because right now lagg and high ping is the only thing holding back our ability to insta kill eachother in pvp.
like i said years ago:
if they ever DO fix the lagg ineso pvp it will destroy the game because the lagg is the only thing holding back the damage we do in pvp.
it laggs out the actual high damage output amount and makes it look like alot less.
if lagg is fixed, they will have to remove 80% of the damage we do and completely rebuild the entire damage system.

Nope. That's not how lag works. Lag is already getting better in large battles, your statement is entirely false.

OP is correct. It sucks that they're re-writing the game to this extent, but we're in the middle of it now. I think the drastic changes are part of the testing, they needed to find thresholds of certain abilities and how they synergize etc. I think they knew that the DoTs this patch were ridiculously out of balance but needed to test the "high end" of damage output in order to properly adjust them.

At least I hope this is what's happening.

StrandedMonkey

i like how you felt the need to tell us the definition of transition

trial and error isnt the method being used when we call out things that are going to be broken and they still push it out with no changes

xWarbrain

StrandedMonkey wrote: »

i like how you felt the need to tell us the definition of transition

trial and error isnt the method being used when we call out things that are going to be broken and they still push it out with no changes

Again, I think they have reasons for doing things that baffle us, but they have to gather the data before nerfing it back down, or they have to see how an ability reacts to other sources of "x". It's part of an ongoing process. Like OP said, it'll probably take a few more patches unfortunately, but I honestly think the sweeping, across the board changes to so much of the game is going to slow down.

And I'm talking about combat, not things like the guild trader update, that was broken.

Gilvoth

xWarbrain wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

this transition period is going to cause alot of needed maintenance in the way we do damage because right now lagg and high ping is the only thing holding back our ability to insta kill eachother in pvp.
like i said years ago:
if they ever DO fix the lagg ineso pvp it will destroy the game because the lagg is the only thing holding back the damage we do in pvp.
it laggs out the actual high damage output amount and makes it look like alot less.
if lagg is fixed, they will have to remove 80% of the damage we do and completely rebuild the entire damage system.

Nope. That's not how lag works. Lag is already getting better in large battles, your statement is entirely false.

OP is correct. It sucks that they're re-writing the game to this extent, but we're in the middle of it now. I think the drastic changes are part of the testing, they needed to find thresholds of certain abilities and how they synergize etc. I think they knew that the DoTs this patch were ridiculously out of balance but needed to test the "high end" of damage output in order to properly adjust them.

At least I hope this is what's happening.

this video is proof of what i refer to and shows how the damage is being calculated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LE2vHnp_viM

ChunkyCat

Bold move, Cotton. Let’s see if it pays off.

SeaUnicorn

This endless "transition" period wiped 2 trial guild that I were in. Both had 400+ active players between Summerset and Elsweyr. Unless ZOS is really looking forward to kill the game - they need to pay attention to player base, do SMALL precise changes instead of killing flies with nerf-hammers.

Rehdaun

Transition period into what?!?!?! That's the real question.

Sorry but this dev team has had its chance and has totally blown it, patch after patch after patch. They have not taken players feedback but instead pushed bad decisions through to live. Not sure if you remember the leaked patch notes, but there was at least a couple of former class reps that openly opposed the massive nerfs but Zos pushed on. Last patch there were quite a few streamers that proved that the dot meta would only increase dps instead of decreasing it, yet Zos pushed on. Now we have another round of sweeping nerfs, possibly pushing stam to run a backbar vma staff, and I bet Zos will push on as well. You say give zos your feedback and they will listen. I call BS!

No forum hatred is warranted. Especially when players ask for dev direction and the only thing that Zos gives us in return is
1) a timeline that doesn't include the nerfhammer of what the last few updates have been and
2) a bunch of Q&A mumbo jumbo where Zos ignores the hard questions and only responds to the easy one's.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/490953/u23-combat-q-a/p1

Each person in this forum has payed Zos good money to play their game, one that should be fun and enjoyable. Changing directions every 3 months with sweeping, game-breaking changes is not what I consider enjoyable.

darkblue5

Also, new devs are new. You'd expect for the game to change a lot with new dev leads.

You'll be slotting almost all the same skills as U22 in PvE and casting them in a dynamic rotation still. The game direction really isn't that different and neither are your builds.

Gahmerdohn

There is something that should be understood:

If ZoS doesn't do what you say they should do it's not necessarily because they don't listen, it could also be that they simply don't agree with you about what this game should be.

Surprised? They have the right to disagree with some of the things we ask. Exactly the same way that a Starbucks has the right to not sell hamburgers if that's not what they want to do!

With that being said if you talk about bugs and broken things that still go to live servers even if we report it again think about the fact that ESO is a huge game in terms of volume of things that can be possibly be broken and this is a small team.

There are so many things that I personally strongly disagree about their decisions about the game I could talk about them all day long but at the end of the day Agree or not with what they do, the only thing we can do as players is what this post is about:

Keep providing constructive feedback or leave the game cause all this raging/hate is just a waste of time and energy for us and for them.

Try to find a good post about what could be fixed, what is broken and what are potential ideas to how to deal with it in this forum? can you? pages and pages about "crazy chickens fighting each other" and insulting Zos at the same time. (It feels like it)

I do agree with @Rehdaun first question: <<Transition period into what?!?!?! That's the real question.>>

They probably should tell us what their vision of the end product looks like when the transition will be over:

- What the combat would feel like?
- What can we expect would be the identity and feeling of each class?
- What kind of experience the combat system as a whole will provide for the player?
- etc

So at least we can already prepare for it (cause changing main with all the farming involved in this game to have a decent main is hell) and help them better to tweak the game during test phases to reach it, telling them when from our perspective it's going off-road.

It's true that sometimes they give us the feeling that they don't have the answer to these questions themselves.

But again insulting each other on forums have no potential to make any progress whatsoever!

Rehdaun

Gahmerdohn wrote: »

Try to find a good post about what could be fixed, what is broken and what are potential ideas to how to deal with it in this forum? can you?

Challenge accepted.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/482293/this-is-eso/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/492739/how-to-fix-cp-easy-and-balanced
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/494105/open-letter-please-build-a-transparent-rational-system-to-balance-abilities

These are only just the recent one's. there are quite a few other's that respectfully detail out how to balance classes, roles, etc, most of which had zero influence on the devs and saw zero ideas actually implemented. Sorry but I don't see this trend changing any time soon.

MartiniDaniels

Lock my account, refund me my money and I will return after a year when you are finished with re-balances and performance fixes and I'll pay same money back to unlock my account and play.

SirAndy

Gahmerdohn wrote: »

Calm down

Have you ever actually tried to tell someone who is in a rage to "calm down"?

If the answer is yes, do you still have all your teeth?

DeadlyRecluse

A "transition period" shouldn't be needed in a game old enough to use the potty by itself.

SodanTok

StrandedMonkey wrote: »

i like how you felt the need to tell us the definition of transition

trial and error isnt the method being used when we call out things that are going to be broken and they still push it out with no changes

"We" what is we? There isnt single thread idea where OP can even amass enough supporters to be able to call those that disagree minority. There is no we in this game or even on this forum. For every broken thing you think you and people you call together 'we' reported there was other thing some other group of 'we' called out that was also never changed... and nobody even remembers it because it wasnt as the 'we hive' told it will be. Everyone on this forum acts in nothing more than own personal bias. Which is fine as long nobody pretends otherwise.

Gahmerdohn

I see them also and I participate in a lot of these posts that is what I'm trying to say that there's few of them to start with even spending hours of forums you only see few of them and then theses are opinions of certain players of how the game should be, Dev's don't have to agree with it although I think they should take some of the good ideas I see sometimes.

But now it doesn't change the fact that if surrounded by angry trolling post makes it hard to find of even hard to want to look at forums to start with missing then the good ones.

Then even if they agree on some of these ideas like they did so many times. Jewelry crafting was our idea as 2 bonus sets for 2h weapons, same for Elsweyr and Necromancer and the list goes on. So all those things have been implemented because we asked for it. They do listen indeed but

1 It's tedious to go on reading trolling toxic posts just to find 2 good ideas
2 they don't necessarily agree with all we propose
3 Even when they do it takes time!

Most of the time we don't even agree with each other about it so why would they take one side?

I know the state of things is frustrating but we have to keep proposing ideas and give feedbacks understanding that they will not do everything we ask.

For us it's easy to say:" this should be done" for them it's a lot of work to actually implement it in the game

Vahrokh

I am going to tell my company customers to keep paying me every month, while I "transition".

Let's see how many care to keep paying me while I flip everything around.

Gahmerdohn

SirAndy wrote: »

Gahmerdohn wrote: »

Calm down

Have you ever actually tried to tell someone who is in a rage to "calm down"?

Part of my everyday job, yes and it's hard yes but not impossible I'm still fine and some of those angry people are now friends ^^

Guyle

You're right, we should all calm down during the transition period, maybe do something else while they figure it out? K, see you guys in a year.

Gahmerdohn

SodanTok wrote: »

Everyone on this forum acts in nothing more than own personal bias.

Very good point

KageNin

No theres no transition period, theres a period of pure incompetence.
You want to to overhaul this massive game? Change combat ajustment patch times, make changes hold them on PTS for a month or two, so you can monitor how they work out.
But no change everything every 3 months ,doesnt mater if you have made terrible decisions, people will adjust even if few hundred will quit theres many more spending money in clown store. Who cares if game is fun to play.

People say Wrobel was bad , he wasnt perfect but he didnt understand the game like new combat team does, and yet they make gameplay way worse then him.
This isnt a game in beta ,its a 5year old game and its going downhill fun-wise and gameplay wise.

Learn new rotation , get new gear ,morph new skills every 3 months. How else can you keep people to play the game.
Never in the past the ,,Pendulum'' of balance was on 6th gear swinging in 360', besides whats the point in testing things on PTS ,people tested last patch? We knew DoT's were OP , we knew Eclipse would be OP we still think ult cast times ar dreadful.
Anyone listened in time and adjusted thing? 3 months took them to adres it , and by adressing i mean deleting.
Way to go.

Illuzion0216

Yes trial and error is fundemental. But if the devs themselves have no clue to as what is class identity , balanced and whatnot, is just a waste of resource by changing up numbers and edit them every update/patch cycle. Those resorces can well be put to great use in other areas instead of editing mistakes again and again.

daedalusAI

Gahmerdohn wrote: »

Transition: "change or passage from one state or stage to another"
Transition Period: "the period of time during which something changes from one state or stage to another ".

ESO is actually in a transition period and Update 23, Update 24 are part of it, maybe till Update 27 a lot of changes will happen in the game, Up and down, back and forth. Dev's will test things to find out the best recipe for the game.

Trial and error is a fundamental method of problem-solving and it requires TIME.

Till the moment that they figure out what to do with the champion system and make all systems works together well

Cp system (or any new system taking its place) + Skills + Sets + Adjusting the content

Don't expect any "everything is fine", the game will shake a lot, but that is the nature of any transition period when trying to find a better solution.

As players, our role in this is to provide feedback in a way that helps them to navigate better in that mess testing the changes and explain the results we have to show what is broken, what is really bad, what is actually an improvement.

And this can be done without insulting each other or the dev's folks...

This update has a lot of things that are actually improvements and many things that still need a lot of work to improve.

Screaming at each other and raging may be fun to some of you (at least it looks like it) but it's totally useless...

DO your testings, give feedback, Explain your result and give your opinion concerning those results

And this transition period will be shorter, It's understandable that some of you feel bad about certain thing, I do as well and it's okay to feel bad about certain things, of course, but crowding the forum with hatred doesn't help at all. It just makes everything confused and tedious!

ZOS is a small team compared to other MMO big development studios and it's also a young one, keep that in mind

IF you don't want to help because "you're paying for it", "it's their job to know what to do" think about how well yourself is performing at your job in which somebody pays you for...

SO just do what you have to do during this transition period and try to be human at least IRL... quality lost for long on these forums.

Everything will be fine folks, breathe!

In what universe can U23 even be considered a decent foundation to build upon? Randomly upping DoT damage to new heights just for them to go the other way with U24 is no transition, that's being clueless/aimless.

Do you mean feedback like e.g. DoT scaling in U23 PTS which was ignored and released anyway?
Or how now with massive criticism regarding U24 there's no preliminary ZOS feedback?

Oh yeah, the good old "labeling criticism as hatred as a means to discredit it".

By calling ZOS a small team you already showed your true colors as in not caring one bit about reality.

I do QA for a living, and let me tell you: software on this quality like ESO won't get a pass from me, because we actually value our customers and strive to deliver the best quality we can.
I still haven't heard back from my other thread about Echoing Vigor's HoTs getting worse as the ability ranks up, as the duration increases, but the healing stays the same.

Rather rich telling customers to do free QA and telling them to "be human", when ZOS does neither.

All in all a pathetic attempt to blame the customer and excuse ZOS from everything they themselves broke/did.

BigBragg

The transition period to me feels like a project that will last well over a year and cost me money to be their beta tester again.

These persistent, polar opposite mood swings the game is going through isn't a pleasurable experience. I enjoy the game for it's theory crafting and creating builds for myself, but new ones every quarter is incredibly taxing on materials and the time that I actually get to play the game as opposed to relearning the tight ropes.

This new, vague direction they are stumbling in, is also beginning to showcase some glaring flaws. In my opinion. Wanting to get all the skills on equal footing to facilitate balance seems good in theory, sure. However in practice, thus far, is has produced even more drastic metas that revolve around homogenized skill concepts and bar loadouts. Class identity is suffering immensely, and functional options are either just being arbitrarily shifted or stripped away entirely.

I hope that the team actually does have an end goal that we can all enjoy, and wish them all the best in getting there. As I am huge fan and supporter of the game. That being said, I have absolutlely run out of patience with the journey.

daedalusAI

BigBragg wrote: »

The transition period to me feels like a project that will last well over a year and cost me money to be their beta tester again.

These persistent, polar opposite mood swings the game is going through isn't a pleasurable experience. I enjoy the game for it's theory crafting and creating builds for myself, but new ones every quarter is incredibly taxing on materials and the time that I actually get to play the game as opposed to relearning the tight ropes.

This new, vague direction they are stumbling in, is also beginning to showcase some glaring flaws. In my opinion. Wanting to get all the skills on equal footing to facilitate balance seems good in theory, sure. However in practice, thus far, is has produced even more drastic metas that revolve around homogenized skill concepts and bar loadouts. Class identity is suffering immensely, and functional options are either just being arbitrarily shifted or stripped away entirely.

I hope that the team actually does have an end goal that we can all enjoy, and wish them all the best in getting there. As I am huge fan and supporter of the game. That being said, I have absolutlely run out of patience with the journey.

You could say they were trying to convey the following message: "Come back in 1 year and we might be able to offer stable servers, a functioning dungeon finder during prime times and maybe, just maybe, a reworked combat".

Do yourself a favor and come back in 1 year and don't pay a dime until then: there are other games out there, with companies who actually care about the quality of their product and you as a customer.

Gahmerdohn

@KageNin and @daedalusAI those are very good points and I do agree with you when I look from those perspectives.

I still thing that as players we do have only 2 options:

*Wait tll the transition is over or quit
Or
*Keep playing giving them all the feedback we can so it helps to navigate the transition.

I personally think that the combat system is the weakest point of this game and it's what creates all the problems. They should start to really get serious about it and maybe invest more on these matters.

KageNin

The combat system isnt the issue , its one of the games best selling points but how they go about balancing it is what gets on everybodys nerves, like ult cast times alone, how can you justify puting cast times on 3 ultimates used by melee players that need to get close to oponent and open themselves to danger while leaving everything else as is , every other ulti can be animation cancelled and cannot be interrupted by stun or cc like its happening now with DB,Onslaught and Incap.
Personally i limited my playtime severely. I will monitor games progress but if nothing will change for the better i will just uninstall it .

And i dont mean to yell on anyone because i love the game, but what is being done to it is beyond me.

Peace to you.

ChunkyCat

SirAndy wrote: »

Gahmerdohn wrote: »

Calm down

Have you ever actually tried to tell someone who is in a rage to "calm down"?

If the answer is yes, do you still have all your teeth?

Calm down.