this combination shouldnt be allowed to happen

Mojomonkeyman

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

The very big advantage of live netch (and the combination with hero) is exactly the one thing that it is going to lose - the control about when you want the cleanse and protection proc to happen. Same thing for hero - it was an awesome set for warden because you could i.e. - time hero proc - charge into battle - activate perma after 5 seconds - and immediately pull a second hero proc the moment perma runs out to get out of the heat - leading to 18s of major prot with no downtime inbetween.

Those combos wont line up anymore. This is a nerf. Losing the ability to control or rotate cleanse (with small heal attached) and therefore also control the hero proc to happen exactly when u need it is a total knockout. The big asset of netch was that it allowed to warden to perform very cost efficient defensive rotations (netch - trellis - netch - embrace - netch - etc.) which would still be incredibly powerful since those def rotas use to happen when under pressure and in major mending range.

Bad wardens spammed heals, good wardens rotated them with netch.

Dont get me even started on jorvulds - hero combo. Try it now, pretty sure you will (as any good player I know) very quickly realise that 2 more seconds of major prot are not worth the investment when taking trade-offs into account. Why bother with 2 more sec of major prot when you could instead stack major prot + major evasion or major prot + massive resistances. Jorvuld is just too much of a "loss" compared to other 5 piece sets, even on warden with its buffs due to how their dependencies and short timers interact with each other.

This thread is the perfect example of uninformed and, quite honestly, inexperienced players creating hyperbole based on half knowledge (if at all) misleading not only equally uninformed forum users but also developers - ultimately fueling the mismanaged & unhealthy balance rollercoaster we are experiencing for 2-3 years now.

having 30% dmg reduction 70% of the time is a nerf?
geting dispeled when you dont even have control on your character is a nerf?
right...
its literaly Pirate Skeleton set on steroids/ withoud his downsides.
And we have PS nerfed to the ground.
So pls cut the crap how big nerf PTS Betty is ...
You may allso want a warden buffs, because of all nerffs ge get ?

Because having 30% reduction + 25% reduction (or masssive offensive power by a dmg 5 piece on top of hero) for 5 seconds is better than 30% for 7 seconds for any good player who knows when pressure is going to happen.

To follow your example, you're sacrificing two (!!!) full 5 pieces just to get an equivalent to old PS, which was a 2 piece set. 10 pieces versus 2 pieces. I fail to realize how that is "on steroids". Your sacrificing all potential offensive power for that, which wasn't the case for PS.

And that is ignoring all the other gameplay related negatives that come with the loss of a spammable cleanse. Good luck cleansing that zaan or major defile in time with your automation proc every 5 sec... Automation on a timer is way worse than manual without timer.

The more you write the more you convince me that you have no idea about neither - build crafting and warden play. You can't even distingiush between nerfs and buffs to a class...

Runkorko

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

The very big advantage of live netch (and the combination with hero) is exactly the one thing that it is going to lose - the control about when you want the cleanse and protection proc to happen. Same thing for hero - it was an awesome set for warden because you could i.e. - time hero proc - charge into battle - activate perma after 5 seconds - and immediately pull a second hero proc the moment perma runs out to get out of the heat - leading to 18s of major prot with no downtime inbetween.

Those combos wont line up anymore. This is a nerf. Losing the ability to control or rotate cleanse (with small heal attached) and therefore also control the hero proc to happen exactly when u need it is a total knockout. The big asset of netch was that it allowed to warden to perform very cost efficient defensive rotations (netch - trellis - netch - embrace - netch - etc.) which would still be incredibly powerful since those def rotas use to happen when under pressure and in major mending range.

Bad wardens spammed heals, good wardens rotated them with netch.

Dont get me even started on jorvulds - hero combo. Try it now, pretty sure you will (as any good player I know) very quickly realise that 2 more seconds of major prot are not worth the investment when taking trade-offs into account. Why bother with 2 more sec of major prot when you could instead stack major prot + major evasion or major prot + massive resistances. Jorvuld is just too much of a "loss" compared to other 5 piece sets, even on warden with its buffs due to how their dependencies and short timers interact with each other.

This thread is the perfect example of uninformed and, quite honestly, inexperienced players creating hyperbole based on half knowledge (if at all) misleading not only equally uninformed forum users but also developers - ultimately fueling the mismanaged & unhealthy balance rollercoaster we are experiencing for 2-3 years now.

having 30% dmg reduction 70% of the time is a nerf?
geting dispeled when you dont even have control on your character is a nerf?
right...
its literaly Pirate Skeleton set on steroids/ withoud his downsides.
And we have PS nerfed to the ground.
So pls cut the crap how big nerf PTS Betty is ...
You may allso want a warden buffs, because of all nerffs ge get ?

Because having 30% reduction + 25% reduction (or masssive offensive power by a dmg 5 piece on top of hero) for 5 seconds is better than 30% for 7 seconds for any good player who knows when pressure is going to happen.

To follow your example, you're sacrificing two (!!!) full 5 pieces just to get an equivalent to old PS, which was a 2 piece set. 10 pieces versus 2 pieces. I fail to realize how that is "on steroids". Your sacrificing all potential offensive power for that, which wasn't the case for PS.

And that is ignoring all the other gameplay related negatives that come with the loss of a spammable cleanse. Good luck cleansing that zaan or major defile in time with your automation proc every 5 sec... Automation on a timer is way worse than manual without timer.

The more you write the more you convince me that you have no idea about neither - build crafting and warden play.

7 seconds every 10 seconds.... make the diference.
And you sacrafice nothing. The set combo alow you to stay tank on light set/ and keeping your la passives + provide sustain and healing done, leting you freee to go full offensive on jewels/mundus stone AND monster set.
Want me to hop on pts and post you sustain and offensive stats /using this 2 sets/ ?
You will stil argue then? Poinlessly like now
Sets is forbiden even in duels. Now with the new warden changes it become even stronger, and you talk about it likes is a nerf even ....
And we dont need to f..ng question ea other skills.

"Automation on a timer is way worse than manual without timer."

THEN WHY THE HECK YOU EVEN ARGUE?
All i want is to have auto dispel removed.
Oh i see, you dont want warden over buffed, so thats why you pefer to go with "aouto dispell nerff"

jaws343

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

The very big advantage of live netch (and the combination with hero) is exactly the one thing that it is going to lose - the control about when you want the cleanse and protection proc to happen. Same thing for hero - it was an awesome set for warden because you could i.e. - time hero proc - charge into battle - activate perma after 5 seconds - and immediately pull a second hero proc the moment perma runs out to get out of the heat - leading to 18s of major prot with no downtime inbetween.

Those combos wont line up anymore. This is a nerf. Losing the ability to control or rotate cleanse (with small heal attached) and therefore also control the hero proc to happen exactly when u need it is a total knockout. The big asset of netch was that it allowed to warden to perform very cost efficient defensive rotations (netch - trellis - netch - embrace - netch - etc.) which would still be incredibly powerful since those def rotas use to happen when under pressure and in major mending range.

Bad wardens spammed heals, good wardens rotated them with netch.

Dont get me even started on jorvulds - hero combo. Try it now, pretty sure you will (as any good player I know) very quickly realise that 2 more seconds of major prot are not worth the investment when taking trade-offs into account. Why bother with 2 more sec of major prot when you could instead stack major prot + major evasion or major prot + massive resistances. Jorvuld is just too much of a "loss" compared to other 5 piece sets, even on warden with its buffs due to how their dependencies and short timers interact with each other.

This thread is the perfect example of uninformed and, quite honestly, inexperienced players creating hyperbole based on half knowledge (if at all) misleading not only equally uninformed forum users but also developers - ultimately fueling the mismanaged & unhealthy balance rollercoaster we are experiencing for 2-3 years now.

having 30% dmg reduction 70% of the time is a nerf?
geting dispeled when you dont even have control on your character is a nerf?
right...
its literaly Pirate Skeleton set on steroids/ withoud his downsides.
And we have PS nerfed to the ground.
So pls cut the crap how big nerf PTS Betty is ...
You may allso want a warden buffs, because of all nerffs ge get ?

Because having 30% reduction + 25% reduction (or masssive offensive power by a dmg 5 piece on top of hero) for 5 seconds is better than 30% for 7 seconds for any good player who knows when pressure is going to happen.

To follow your example, you're sacrificing two (!!!) full 5 pieces just to get an equivalent to old PS, which was a 2 piece set. 10 pieces versus 2 pieces. I fail to realize how that is "on steroids". Your sacrificing all potential offensive power for that, which wasn't the case for PS.

And that is ignoring all the other gameplay related negatives that come with the loss of a spammable cleanse. Good luck cleansing that zaan or major defile in time with your automation proc every 5 sec... Automation on a timer is way worse than manual without timer.

The more you write the more you convince me that you have no idea about neither - build crafting and warden play. You can't even distingiush between nerfs and buffs to a class...

I mentioned Jourvalds as more of a musing. But it does provide mag recovery enough to get away with running 2 or 3 infused spell damage jewelry. So you really aren't sacrificing too much to pair the two sets. And the Warden has tons of major/minor buffs that will be increased by Jourvalds.

But, Jourvald's aside, are we certain that the purge from Netch doesn't also active on recast? The Patch Notes say when cast it removes a negative effect every 5 seconds. I would assume the initial cast removes an effect, with removal after every 5 seconds during the duration. Does this work just like any skill that provides an effect on cast and through the duration? Are you unable to recast netch immediately to remove a second effect, and still get the passive 5 second removal?

Sandman929

Ran this at the start of Scalebreaker (Steadfast, not Jorvuld) and it's very strong defensively on the free/cheap access to purge classes. Personally, I think something is sacrificed for that defensive strength so it doesn't bother me that much. I don't have a problem with running a 5 piece for defensive strength, however, this defensive option is very limited to a couple of classes that can utilize it easily (even on Templars, it's not that easy with the cleanse cost).

Runkorko

jaws343 wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

The very big advantage of live netch (and the combination with hero) is exactly the one thing that it is going to lose - the control about when you want the cleanse and protection proc to happen. Same thing for hero - it was an awesome set for warden because you could i.e. - time hero proc - charge into battle - activate perma after 5 seconds - and immediately pull a second hero proc the moment perma runs out to get out of the heat - leading to 18s of major prot with no downtime inbetween.

Those combos wont line up anymore. This is a nerf. Losing the ability to control or rotate cleanse (with small heal attached) and therefore also control the hero proc to happen exactly when u need it is a total knockout. The big asset of netch was that it allowed to warden to perform very cost efficient defensive rotations (netch - trellis - netch - embrace - netch - etc.) which would still be incredibly powerful since those def rotas use to happen when under pressure and in major mending range.

Bad wardens spammed heals, good wardens rotated them with netch.

Dont get me even started on jorvulds - hero combo. Try it now, pretty sure you will (as any good player I know) very quickly realise that 2 more seconds of major prot are not worth the investment when taking trade-offs into account. Why bother with 2 more sec of major prot when you could instead stack major prot + major evasion or major prot + massive resistances. Jorvuld is just too much of a "loss" compared to other 5 piece sets, even on warden with its buffs due to how their dependencies and short timers interact with each other.

This thread is the perfect example of uninformed and, quite honestly, inexperienced players creating hyperbole based on half knowledge (if at all) misleading not only equally uninformed forum users but also developers - ultimately fueling the mismanaged & unhealthy balance rollercoaster we are experiencing for 2-3 years now.

having 30% dmg reduction 70% of the time is a nerf?
geting dispeled when you dont even have control on your character is a nerf?
right...
its literaly Pirate Skeleton set on steroids/ withoud his downsides.
And we have PS nerfed to the ground.
So pls cut the crap how big nerf PTS Betty is ...
You may allso want a warden buffs, because of all nerffs ge get ?

Because having 30% reduction + 25% reduction (or masssive offensive power by a dmg 5 piece on top of hero) for 5 seconds is better than 30% for 7 seconds for any good player who knows when pressure is going to happen.

To follow your example, you're sacrificing two (!!!) full 5 pieces just to get an equivalent to old PS, which was a 2 piece set. 10 pieces versus 2 pieces. I fail to realize how that is "on steroids". Your sacrificing all potential offensive power for that, which wasn't the case for PS.

And that is ignoring all the other gameplay related negatives that come with the loss of a spammable cleanse. Good luck cleansing that zaan or major defile in time with your automation proc every 5 sec... Automation on a timer is way worse than manual without timer.

The more you write the more you convince me that you have no idea about neither - build crafting and warden play. You can't even distingiush between nerfs and buffs to a class...

I mentioned Jourvalds as more of a musing. But it does provide mag recovery enough to get away with running 2 or 3 infused spell damage jewelry. So you really aren't sacrificing too much to pair the two sets. And the Warden has tons of major/minor buffs that will be increased by Jourvalds.

But, Jourvald's aside, are we certain that the purge from Netch doesn't also active on recast? The Patch Notes say when cast it removes a negative effect every 5 seconds. I would assume the initial cast removes an effect, with removal after every 5 seconds during the duration. Does this work just like any skill that provides an effect on cast and through the duration? Are you unable to recast netch immediately to remove a second effect, and still get the passive 5 second removal?

You will know the results in few minutes.

Mojomonkeyman

jaws343 wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

The very big advantage of live netch (and the combination with hero) is exactly the one thing that it is going to lose - the control about when you want the cleanse and protection proc to happen. Same thing for hero - it was an awesome set for warden because you could i.e. - time hero proc - charge into battle - activate perma after 5 seconds - and immediately pull a second hero proc the moment perma runs out to get out of the heat - leading to 18s of major prot with no downtime inbetween.

Those combos wont line up anymore. This is a nerf. Losing the ability to control or rotate cleanse (with small heal attached) and therefore also control the hero proc to happen exactly when u need it is a total knockout. The big asset of netch was that it allowed to warden to perform very cost efficient defensive rotations (netch - trellis - netch - embrace - netch - etc.) which would still be incredibly powerful since those def rotas use to happen when under pressure and in major mending range.

Bad wardens spammed heals, good wardens rotated them with netch.

Dont get me even started on jorvulds - hero combo. Try it now, pretty sure you will (as any good player I know) very quickly realise that 2 more seconds of major prot are not worth the investment when taking trade-offs into account. Why bother with 2 more sec of major prot when you could instead stack major prot + major evasion or major prot + massive resistances. Jorvuld is just too much of a "loss" compared to other 5 piece sets, even on warden with its buffs due to how their dependencies and short timers interact with each other.

This thread is the perfect example of uninformed and, quite honestly, inexperienced players creating hyperbole based on half knowledge (if at all) misleading not only equally uninformed forum users but also developers - ultimately fueling the mismanaged & unhealthy balance rollercoaster we are experiencing for 2-3 years now.

having 30% dmg reduction 70% of the time is a nerf?
geting dispeled when you dont even have control on your character is a nerf?
right...
its literaly Pirate Skeleton set on steroids/ withoud his downsides.
And we have PS nerfed to the ground.
So pls cut the crap how big nerf PTS Betty is ...
You may allso want a warden buffs, because of all nerffs ge get ?

Because having 30% reduction + 25% reduction (or masssive offensive power by a dmg 5 piece on top of hero) for 5 seconds is better than 30% for 7 seconds for any good player who knows when pressure is going to happen.

To follow your example, you're sacrificing two (!!!) full 5 pieces just to get an equivalent to old PS, which was a 2 piece set. 10 pieces versus 2 pieces. I fail to realize how that is "on steroids". Your sacrificing all potential offensive power for that, which wasn't the case for PS.

And that is ignoring all the other gameplay related negatives that come with the loss of a spammable cleanse. Good luck cleansing that zaan or major defile in time with your automation proc every 5 sec... Automation on a timer is way worse than manual without timer.

The more you write the more you convince me that you have no idea about neither - build crafting and warden play. You can't even distingiush between nerfs and buffs to a class...

I mentioned Jourvalds as more of a musing. But it does provide mag recovery enough to get away with running 2 or 3 infused spell damage jewelry. So you really aren't sacrificing too much to pair the two sets. And the Warden has tons of major/minor buffs that will be increased by Jourvalds.

But, Jourvald's aside, are we certain that the purge from Netch doesn't also active on recast? The Patch Notes say when cast it removes a negative effect every 5 seconds. I would assume the initial cast removes an effect, with removal after every 5 seconds during the duration. Does this work just like any skill that provides an effect on cast and through the duration? Are you unable to recast netch immediately to remove a second effect, and still get the passive 5 second removal?

I played both combos extensively in PvP - warden in hero, and warden in hero + jorvuld. You're giving up way too much with Jorvuld's while getting only quality of life (short buffs being slightly longer). A good player can deal with pressure in 5 seconds and if not then 2 seconds more wont help either. Your impact (and therefore results) will improve a lot when replacing jorvulds with literally any other def set (if you want to go that 2x defensive route).

Just try it yourself, compare hero + jorvuld to lets say hero + gossamer, or hero + wizards riposte, or hero + pariah. You will be so much more tanky compared to investing a 5 piece just into increasing uptime a little of major prot. On a side note, all of that is pretty weak when you ever plan on killing something alone.

I am actually on work trip rn, unable to playtest - if netch still works that way and auto-cast is optional on top then you just made me very happy. This would ofc eliminate my concern about this change being a nerf, it would be a buff to players who cant micromanage under pressure. Yet, it would still be a nerf to the warden + hero combo since the auto cleanse may interfere with your timings and trigger hero when not needed (while being in permafrost i.e.) - therefore rendering this whole thread a joke... still.

Sandman929

Necros can actually squeeze a bit more out of Steadfast, since they also have a class purge with Expunge, and class access to Major Protection (not on an ultimate) with Deaden Pain. So if anything gets changed, the easiest would be the set itself. Otherwise you've got 3 classes that can use it very well.

Runkorko

jaws343 wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

The very big advantage of live netch (and the combination with hero) is exactly the one thing that it is going to lose - the control about when you want the cleanse and protection proc to happen. Same thing for hero - it was an awesome set for warden because you could i.e. - time hero proc - charge into battle - activate perma after 5 seconds - and immediately pull a second hero proc the moment perma runs out to get out of the heat - leading to 18s of major prot with no downtime inbetween.

Those combos wont line up anymore. This is a nerf. Losing the ability to control or rotate cleanse (with small heal attached) and therefore also control the hero proc to happen exactly when u need it is a total knockout. The big asset of netch was that it allowed to warden to perform very cost efficient defensive rotations (netch - trellis - netch - embrace - netch - etc.) which would still be incredibly powerful since those def rotas use to happen when under pressure and in major mending range.

Bad wardens spammed heals, good wardens rotated them with netch.

Dont get me even started on jorvulds - hero combo. Try it now, pretty sure you will (as any good player I know) very quickly realise that 2 more seconds of major prot are not worth the investment when taking trade-offs into account. Why bother with 2 more sec of major prot when you could instead stack major prot + major evasion or major prot + massive resistances. Jorvuld is just too much of a "loss" compared to other 5 piece sets, even on warden with its buffs due to how their dependencies and short timers interact with each other.

This thread is the perfect example of uninformed and, quite honestly, inexperienced players creating hyperbole based on half knowledge (if at all) misleading not only equally uninformed forum users but also developers - ultimately fueling the mismanaged & unhealthy balance rollercoaster we are experiencing for 2-3 years now.

having 30% dmg reduction 70% of the time is a nerf?
geting dispeled when you dont even have control on your character is a nerf?
right...
its literaly Pirate Skeleton set on steroids/ withoud his downsides.
And we have PS nerfed to the ground.
So pls cut the crap how big nerf PTS Betty is ...
You may allso want a warden buffs, because of all nerffs ge get ?

Because having 30% reduction + 25% reduction (or masssive offensive power by a dmg 5 piece on top of hero) for 5 seconds is better than 30% for 7 seconds for any good player who knows when pressure is going to happen.

To follow your example, you're sacrificing two (!!!) full 5 pieces just to get an equivalent to old PS, which was a 2 piece set. 10 pieces versus 2 pieces. I fail to realize how that is "on steroids". Your sacrificing all potential offensive power for that, which wasn't the case for PS.

And that is ignoring all the other gameplay related negatives that come with the loss of a spammable cleanse. Good luck cleansing that zaan or major defile in time with your automation proc every 5 sec... Automation on a timer is way worse than manual without timer.

The more you write the more you convince me that you have no idea about neither - build crafting and warden play. You can't even distingiush between nerfs and buffs to a class...

I mentioned Jourvalds as more of a musing. But it does provide mag recovery enough to get away with running 2 or 3 infused spell damage jewelry. So you really aren't sacrificing too much to pair the two sets. And the Warden has tons of major/minor buffs that will be increased by Jourvalds.

But, Jourvald's aside, are we certain that the purge from Netch doesn't also active on recast? The Patch Notes say when cast it removes a negative effect every 5 seconds. I would assume the initial cast removes an effect, with removal after every 5 seconds during the duration. Does this work just like any skill that provides an effect on cast and through the duration? Are you unable to recast netch immediately to remove a second effect, and still get the passive 5 second removal?

5 second timer is for auoto dispell.
Stil you can dispel with every recast/resummon.
Even if you recast it 1 sec after auto dispell.
Will test more and make vid

Tryxus

For those of you who still doubt: Netch still removes 1 negative effect on recast

Mojomonkeyman

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

The very big advantage of live netch (and the combination with hero) is exactly the one thing that it is going to lose - the control about when you want the cleanse and protection proc to happen. Same thing for hero - it was an awesome set for warden because you could i.e. - time hero proc - charge into battle - activate perma after 5 seconds - and immediately pull a second hero proc the moment perma runs out to get out of the heat - leading to 18s of major prot with no downtime inbetween.

Those combos wont line up anymore. This is a nerf. Losing the ability to control or rotate cleanse (with small heal attached) and therefore also control the hero proc to happen exactly when u need it is a total knockout. The big asset of netch was that it allowed to warden to perform very cost efficient defensive rotations (netch - trellis - netch - embrace - netch - etc.) which would still be incredibly powerful since those def rotas use to happen when under pressure and in major mending range.

Bad wardens spammed heals, good wardens rotated them with netch.

Dont get me even started on jorvulds - hero combo. Try it now, pretty sure you will (as any good player I know) very quickly realise that 2 more seconds of major prot are not worth the investment when taking trade-offs into account. Why bother with 2 more sec of major prot when you could instead stack major prot + major evasion or major prot + massive resistances. Jorvuld is just too much of a "loss" compared to other 5 piece sets, even on warden with its buffs due to how their dependencies and short timers interact with each other.

This thread is the perfect example of uninformed and, quite honestly, inexperienced players creating hyperbole based on half knowledge (if at all) misleading not only equally uninformed forum users but also developers - ultimately fueling the mismanaged & unhealthy balance rollercoaster we are experiencing for 2-3 years now.

having 30% dmg reduction 70% of the time is a nerf?
geting dispeled when you dont even have control on your character is a nerf?
right...
its literaly Pirate Skeleton set on steroids/ withoud his downsides.
And we have PS nerfed to the ground.
So pls cut the crap how big nerf PTS Betty is ...
You may allso want a warden buffs, because of all nerffs ge get ?

Because having 30% reduction + 25% reduction (or masssive offensive power by a dmg 5 piece on top of hero) for 5 seconds is better than 30% for 7 seconds for any good player who knows when pressure is going to happen.

To follow your example, you're sacrificing two (!!!) full 5 pieces just to get an equivalent to old PS, which was a 2 piece set. 10 pieces versus 2 pieces. I fail to realize how that is "on steroids". Your sacrificing all potential offensive power for that, which wasn't the case for PS.

And that is ignoring all the other gameplay related negatives that come with the loss of a spammable cleanse. Good luck cleansing that zaan or major defile in time with your automation proc every 5 sec... Automation on a timer is way worse than manual without timer.

The more you write the more you convince me that you have no idea about neither - build crafting and warden play. You can't even distingiush between nerfs and buffs to a class...

I mentioned Jourvalds as more of a musing. But it does provide mag recovery enough to get away with running 2 or 3 infused spell damage jewelry. So you really aren't sacrificing too much to pair the two sets. And the Warden has tons of major/minor buffs that will be increased by Jourvalds.

But, Jourvald's aside, are we certain that the purge from Netch doesn't also active on recast? The Patch Notes say when cast it removes a negative effect every 5 seconds. I would assume the initial cast removes an effect, with removal after every 5 seconds during the duration. Does this work just like any skill that provides an effect on cast and through the duration? Are you unable to recast netch immediately to remove a second effect, and still get the passive 5 second removal?

5 second timer is for auoto dispell.
Stil you can dispel with every recast/resummon.
Even if you recast it 1 sec after auto dispell.
Will test more and make vid

Thanks for the update. If your concern is mainly the autocast on top for bad players - then I actually agree with you. If your concern was/is the hero set, then your way off and totally overestimating hero (or the combo with jorvulds). This will not make bad players good or noticably more sturdy than they are now.

Runkorko

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

The very big advantage of live netch (and the combination with hero) is exactly the one thing that it is going to lose - the control about when you want the cleanse and protection proc to happen. Same thing for hero - it was an awesome set for warden because you could i.e. - time hero proc - charge into battle - activate perma after 5 seconds - and immediately pull a second hero proc the moment perma runs out to get out of the heat - leading to 18s of major prot with no downtime inbetween.

Those combos wont line up anymore. This is a nerf. Losing the ability to control or rotate cleanse (with small heal attached) and therefore also control the hero proc to happen exactly when u need it is a total knockout. The big asset of netch was that it allowed to warden to perform very cost efficient defensive rotations (netch - trellis - netch - embrace - netch - etc.) which would still be incredibly powerful since those def rotas use to happen when under pressure and in major mending range.

Bad wardens spammed heals, good wardens rotated them with netch.

Dont get me even started on jorvulds - hero combo. Try it now, pretty sure you will (as any good player I know) very quickly realise that 2 more seconds of major prot are not worth the investment when taking trade-offs into account. Why bother with 2 more sec of major prot when you could instead stack major prot + major evasion or major prot + massive resistances. Jorvuld is just too much of a "loss" compared to other 5 piece sets, even on warden with its buffs due to how their dependencies and short timers interact with each other.

This thread is the perfect example of uninformed and, quite honestly, inexperienced players creating hyperbole based on half knowledge (if at all) misleading not only equally uninformed forum users but also developers - ultimately fueling the mismanaged & unhealthy balance rollercoaster we are experiencing for 2-3 years now.

having 30% dmg reduction 70% of the time is a nerf?
geting dispeled when you dont even have control on your character is a nerf?
right...
its literaly Pirate Skeleton set on steroids/ withoud his downsides.
And we have PS nerfed to the ground.
So pls cut the crap how big nerf PTS Betty is ...
You may allso want a warden buffs, because of all nerffs ge get ?

Because having 30% reduction + 25% reduction (or masssive offensive power by a dmg 5 piece on top of hero) for 5 seconds is better than 30% for 7 seconds for any good player who knows when pressure is going to happen.

To follow your example, you're sacrificing two (!!!) full 5 pieces just to get an equivalent to old PS, which was a 2 piece set. 10 pieces versus 2 pieces. I fail to realize how that is "on steroids". Your sacrificing all potential offensive power for that, which wasn't the case for PS.

And that is ignoring all the other gameplay related negatives that come with the loss of a spammable cleanse. Good luck cleansing that zaan or major defile in time with your automation proc every 5 sec... Automation on a timer is way worse than manual without timer.

The more you write the more you convince me that you have no idea about neither - build crafting and warden play. You can't even distingiush between nerfs and buffs to a class...

I mentioned Jourvalds as more of a musing. But it does provide mag recovery enough to get away with running 2 or 3 infused spell damage jewelry. So you really aren't sacrificing too much to pair the two sets. And the Warden has tons of major/minor buffs that will be increased by Jourvalds.

But, Jourvald's aside, are we certain that the purge from Netch doesn't also active on recast? The Patch Notes say when cast it removes a negative effect every 5 seconds. I would assume the initial cast removes an effect, with removal after every 5 seconds during the duration. Does this work just like any skill that provides an effect on cast and through the duration? Are you unable to recast netch immediately to remove a second effect, and still get the passive 5 second removal?

5 second timer is for auoto dispell.
Stil you can dispel with every recast/resummon.
Even if you recast it 1 sec after auto dispell.
Will test more and make vid

Thanks for the update. If your concern is mainly the autocast on top for bad players - then I actually agree with you. If your concern was/is the hero set, then your way off and totally overestimating hero (or the combo with jorvulds). This will not make bad players good or noticably more sturdy than they are now.

"If your concern is mainly the autocast"
Only.

There
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwFIlM2l1Ic&feature=youtu.be

its short but stil shows whate it suppose to show.
manual dispel and autodispel are independant and sometimes you can dispel 2 n/e at once.
sorry for the bad quality

NordSwordnBoard

"If your concern is mainly the autocast"
Only.

This

Using arena weapons can help you control the automatic major protection timing. You can roll dodge or LOS the downtime.
All other classes must at least push a button to get major protection - except Warden, who will get it on cooldown provided they keep up the betty & 5pc steadfast in combat.

It's not the set, it's not Wardens as a class, it's getting a major buff automatically. Jorvulds is just a force multiplier example to demonstrate possibilities. I'm afraid the backlash could give betty the rune cage treatment. Especially if potatoes focus on the fact you get major protection laying on your back during their "burst" and they can't kill you. The problem is always you, not them.

Use your experience: When they over buff a skill, do they revert it to exactly what you had before? Are a few months of a great skill worth a much longer time of that skill possibly being worse than before?

_Ahala_

If the auto purge is such a problem then why not remove it and give the netch recast an incrementally more powerful purge depending on time between purge. 0-5s 1 purge 6-10s 2 purges 10-15s 3 purges 16-20s 4 purges and 21-25s 5 purges... same effect as before but not automatic and also fits nicely in line with the rest of the warden toolkit as it’s delayed yet powerful

Runkorko

_Ahala_ wrote: »

If the auto purge is such a problem then why not remove it and give the netch recast an incrementally more powerful purge depending on time between purge. 0-5s 1 purge 6-10s 2 purges 10-15s 3 purges 16-20s 4 purges and 21-25s 5 purges... same effect as before but not automatic and also fits nicely in line with the rest of the warden toolkit as it’s delayed yet powerful

On pts betty cleanse on recast + auto cleanse every 5 sec
Why you should increase the number of removed effects on free to cast skill ?
If they add numbers, they will more likely add a cost too, which smells like a nerf.
Removing aoutocast is enough

_Ahala_

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

_Ahala_ wrote: »

If the auto purge is such a problem then why not remove it and give the netch recast an incrementally more powerful purge depending on time between purge. 0-5s 1 purge 6-10s 2 purges 10-15s 3 purges 16-20s 4 purges and 21-25s 5 purges... same effect as before but not automatic and also fits nicely in line with the rest of the warden toolkit as it’s delayed yet powerful

On pts betty cleanse on recast + auto cleanse every 5 sec
Why you should increase the number of removed effects on free to cast skill ?
If they add numbers, they will more likely add a cost too, which smells like a nerf.
Removing aoutocast is enough

I did not add numbers... it’s the same number of purges that the automatic would provide but with a mechanic that rewards patience instead of allowing for auto Steadfast procs. If your concern is mainly the autocast then this should be a reasonable compromise

Runkorko

_Ahala_ wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

_Ahala_ wrote: »

If the auto purge is such a problem then why not remove it and give the netch recast an incrementally more powerful purge depending on time between purge. 0-5s 1 purge 6-10s 2 purges 10-15s 3 purges 16-20s 4 purges and 21-25s 5 purges... same effect as before but not automatic and also fits nicely in line with the rest of the warden toolkit as it’s delayed yet powerful

On pts betty cleanse on recast + auto cleanse every 5 sec
Why you should increase the number of removed effects on free to cast skill ?
If they add numbers, they will more likely add a cost too, which smells like a nerf.
Removing aoutocast is enough

I did not add numbers... it’s the same number of purges that the automatic would provide but with a mechanic that rewards patience instead of allowing for auto Steadfast procs. If your concern is mainly the autocast then this should be a reasonable compromise

As i said no reason te replace one bad chane with another.
With the debuffs remove number increase is reasonable to increase the cost.
And patience cant be that cost.
Removing buffs on demand is strong by itself / on free skill/ its joke with other classes if they add numbers to it.
And again i do play warden/both stam and magica/ stil no reason to have it ovebuffed and burried 2 moths later ...
Because if you look at zos past, every buff /i dont mean OP/ is followed by overdebuff

Muskrap

I mean, part of playing the warden is having good stats. Youre just in a tank setup that's not gonna kill anyone.

Rikumaru

You give up a 5pc just to gain 2 more seconds on major protection. I don't really see the point in all honesty, it's kinda a big waste

Lughlongarm

2 full sets for 70% major protection up-time? I'm not impressed.
But sure, just change the set to an active purge(when you activate a skill that purges a debuff)
You don't need to balance a skill around an extremely niche sets combination, especially when you can get find much better set combinations.

The_Last_Titan

you sure the netch removal and steadfast wouldn't be staggered thus skipping a netch tick? if the netch procs steadfast then 10 seconds later the netch could remove another effect a millisecond before steadfast is off cooldown. so would be every 15 seconds not 10 if used passively

Waffennacht

Unless they changed something Jor Also increased the effects' cool down as well (did for pirate skele last I checked)

It's not OP, don't ruin more sets.

Also seems like people have been ignoring what I've said for months Major Protection is what is key, how you get it doesn't really mean much.

Bah, people finally like steadfast; meaning it must be nerfed

universal_wrath

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

It must be adresed, atleast If we want balanced game
Yes i do have warden, yes i can just keep silence and just use broken armor/skill combo when patch hits live.
And no, i dont like it.(the combo)
On pts atm warden is on better spot (imo) than most classes, and last thing i wana see every 5 second is to have nearly OP class with 30% FREE dmg reduction.
Netch cost nothing to cast/ and literaly auoto dispel one negative efect every 5 sec in pvp- free set proc with no efforts every 10 sec for 5 sec duration)
Opinions?

I allow myself to add this clip here so all can see how it looks.
7 seconds 30% dmg reduce buff/ with 10 seconds cd/ so literaly 3 sec cd/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOMtboJSwgg&feature=youtu.be

Only way I see to balance this set without making it trash/useless is to change its proc to active cleanse instead of passive or just cleanse, kind of like how curse eater set works.

The combination of steedfast and jorvuld set seems fine to me. Low stats over all resulting on more tankiness but less group healing in no-cp atleast. Making this attrition war and the last person to kill in group since that guy is mainly meat shield, snare and permafrost creater. Things could be different in cp pvp though oe maybe pve.

Dreyloch

OP, i kinda get what your saying?
But outside of being an almost unkillable healing Warden? Who would seriously wear that combo of sets? I mean, once every 10 seconds you can give someone major protection for 5 seconds? Unless you have like 6 healers in a group of 24 in PvP...all wearing the same setup? There is no conflict of OP-ness here. It looks good on paper? But I bet very highly it wouldn't work in practice =/

SJD_Phoenix

I don’t understand how anyone here can think that this combo will be okay.

Having access to 70% uptime on major protection is silly. Before the Netch change it wasn’t so bad as the likelyhood that a warden is going to religiously go to whatever bar their Netch is on bang on every 10s is very low. To be able to easily achieve the 70% regardless of situation is the problem.

My suggestion: change steadfast to where it procs when you CAST an ability that removes a negative effect.

Waffennacht

SJD_Phoenix wrote: »

I don’t understand how anyone here can think that this combo will be okay.

Having access to 70% uptime on major protection is silly. Before the Netch change it wasn’t so bad as the likelyhood that a warden is going to religiously go to whatever bar their Netch is on bang on every 10s is very low. To be able to easily achieve the 70% regardless of situation is the problem.

My suggestion: change steadfast to where it procs when you CAST an ability that removes a negative effect.

It's ok because you can curse eater + stead fast right meow for the same passive effect

(Also jor increases cool down too so it won't be 7.5 outta 10 sec...)

It's not an OP combo by any means

Tommy_The_Gun

Tbh. I will be surprised if it will go live and this combo will be possible. I dont remember what patch it was (Elsweyr or Sclaebreker) but during PTS, ZOS "fixed" Seventh Legion Brute 5th bonus, so it was no longer possible for NB shadow passive to proc it:

Seventh Legion Brute:
(5 items) When you cast an ability that increases your Physical or Spell Resistance, you gain 350 Weapon Damage and 350 Health Recovery for 10 seconds. This effect can occur every 10 seconds.

NB Shadow Barrier:
Casting a Shadow ability grants you Major Resolve and Major Ward for 6 seconds, increasing your Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by 5280. This duration is increased by 25% for each piece of Heavy Armor equipped.

The reason being that NB could simply cast Shadowy Disguise, proc the set, get 350 weapon dmg and attack from stealth. That combo was considered "broken" by devs back then so technically, we should see similar action here.

fierackas

Noob thread

Darsaga

The problem has nothing to do with the warden. The problem is major protection. It should be 15% not 30% and minor should be 5%. One of the major problems in PvP for ages has been TTK going up. This is the most ridiculous over performing buff.

Leave classes alone before they are all different shapes for one another. Fix the broken buffs/sets.

echo2omega

Darsaga wrote: »

The problem has nothing to do with the warden. The problem is major protection. It should be 15% not 30% and minor should be 5%. One of the major problems in PvP for ages has been TTK going up. This is the most ridiculous over performing buff.

Leave classes alone before they are all different shapes for one another. Fix the broken buffs/sets.

100% agree.

The underlying issue is there are too many sources of major protection.
Many of those sources of major protection have lengthy durations with very minimal cooldowns.

I am personally fine with minor protection at 8%.
Agree 100% that major protection needs reduced to 15% and/or durations/sources of major protection need significantly reduced/removed.

ZarkingFrued

Nerf begger