this combination shouldnt be allowed to happen

Daemonai

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

I know, and nope, i wont. Because you work for it. Its not auoto cast buff.
+ you need a corpse for it. So its hardly usable when you need to kite or LoS
you cant even compare this 2.

OP, your problem seems to be with the "auto-cast" nature of the Steadfast-Netch synergy when the player is CC'd, but many other sets proc their effects even if the player is CC'd. For example:

Valkyn Skoria will "auto-cast" a meteor on your opponents head even if you are CC'd as long as you applied a DOT before being CC'd.

Iceheart's shield will "auto-cast" as long as you applied a DOT before being CC'd.

Earthgore will "auto-cast" its heal as long as you applied a HOT before being CC'd.

And dozens more.

So tell me, how do you feel about "auto-cast" healing or "auto-cast" damage? And how is that any different from Netch auto-proccing Steadfast by way of its delayed purge functionality?

The Steadfast + Netch combo is an interesting set + class interaction, but ultimately a Warden using the set will still get the same 5 secs of Major Protection any other class using the set will.

This thread is hyperventilating nerfmongery.

Runkorko

Daemonai wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

I know, and nope, i wont. Because you work for it. Its not auoto cast buff.
+ you need a corpse for it. So its hardly usable when you need to kite or LoS
you cant even compare this 2.

OP, your problem seems to be with the "auto-cast" nature of the Steadfast-Netch synergy when the player is CC'd, but many other sets proc their effects even if the player is CC'd. For example:

Valkyn Skoria will "auto-cast" a meteor on your opponents head even if you are CC'd as long as you applied a DOT before being CC'd.

Iceheart's shield will "auto-cast" as long as you applied a DOT before being CC'd.

Earthgore will "auto-cast" its heal as long as you applied a HOT before being CC'd.

And dozens more.

So tell me, how do you feel about "auto-cast" healing or "auto-cast" damage? And how is that any different from Netch auto-proccing Steadfast by way of its delayed purge functionality?

The Steadfast + Netch combo is an interesting set+class interaction, but ultimately a Warden using the set will still get the same 5 secs of Major Protection any other class using the set will.

This thread is hyperventilating nerfmongering.

And many more.
All sets you mention have ZERO effect in pvp. And i dont care about PvE / not in this case/
No matter the outcome, pve wont notice a change so i dont know why they continue to "cry " about the "nerf"
Its a 30% f..n dmg reduce granting from god for 7 socond every 10, wihtout you even need to say the prayer.
Whats the problem if they make it castable?
And pls make difereence between proc and aouto cast.
I dont mind the sets, they are fine.

ESO_Nightingale

I didn't ask for a lot of these buffs. ZOS doesn't seem to care too much about fulfilling painpoints.

Our skills don't synergise. So in turn we get raw damage buffs to bandaid it over. I understand how you feel. New perma shouldn't be in the game, i hate the minor vuln because of what it represents and no-one asked for the betty buff.

SidraWillowsky

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

And if you mean DPS pve, how removin aouto dispel from Betty wll affect your dps ?

Because it seems like any changes to classes made for PvP always always ALWAYS negatively affect PvE. Why is it that when people bring up these issues, they seem to want to have classes nerfed vs. having sets adjusted, or how the way sets proc adjusted?

I was new to the game when this happened, but wasn't it the case a while back that Relequen stacks would proc Advancing Yokeda? Rather than nerfing Relequen to the ground, adjustments were made so that Rele no longer procced AY, but otherwise sets' functionalities remained the same. I know that this situation isn't an exact parallel (and that that was for PvE), but WHY do people seem to only be happy when classes are dead and buried six feet under?

Maybe you're right- netch + this set = perhaps OP. but why on earth has this turned into people complaining about wardens being OP across the board and indicating that the whole CLASS needs a nerf? Do people not think about that fact that maybe -just MAYBE- there are other less catastrophic ways of dealing with OP combinations like this? Like maybe just.... adjusting the set's functionality when it comes to the Warden's netch? Or do people just not like thinking critically and/or for whatever reason feel that nothing should be able to kill them in PvP and would rather just go the brain-dead route of screaming "NERF IT"

Surely most of us have had our favorite class get targeted by this, right? So then everyone should know that reasonable balancing is not really the game's MO. If I thought that OP's concerns would likely result in this:

"Welcome to update 5.2.1 on the PTS! Everyone grab a bottle of tequila and take a shot every time you see a nerf. New in the Crown Store are Ambulance Vouchers to get you to the ER when you get alcohol poisoning 30 seconds into reading. For a limited time only, get 30% off when you buy them in packs of 10!

• Set: Steadfast Hero. Warden's Netch no longer proccs this set"

Or SOMETHING to that effect, whatever, I'd be fine. But you know it'll end up like:

"Warden

• Guardian: this ability now damages YOU. Summon a Grizzly bear to maul you, dealing 50000 physical damage and inflicting major major fracture, since your bones are all broken now
• Cutting Dive: will now swoop in and peck your eyes out if you've recently been mauled by a grizzly, causing you to bleed for 829038120 damage
• Netch: this ability no longer does anything but follow you around and smack you. Additional functionality coming in Q2 of 2020!"

Runkorko

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

And if you mean DPS pve, how removin aouto dispel from Betty wll affect your dps ?

Because it seems like any changes to classes made for PvP always always ALWAYS negatively affect PvE. Why is it that when people bring up these issues, they seem to want to have classes nerfed vs. having sets adjusted, or how the way sets proc adjusted?

I was new to the game when this happened, but wasn't it the case a while back that Relequen stacks would proc Advancing Yokeda? Rather than nerfing Relequen to the ground, adjustments were made so that Rele no longer procced AY, but otherwise sets' functionalities remained the same. I know that this situation isn't an exact parallel (and that that was for PvE), but WHY do people seem to only be happy when classes are dead and buried six feet under?

Maybe you're right- netch + this set = perhaps OP. but why on earth has this turned into people complaining about wardens being OP across the board and indicating that the whole CLASS needs a nerf? Do people not think about that fact that maybe -just MAYBE- there are other less catastrophic ways of dealing with OP combinations like this? Like maybe just.... adjusting the set's functionality when it comes to the Warden's netch? Or do people just not like thinking critically and/or for whatever reason feel that nothing should be able to kill them in PvP and would rather just go the brain-dead route of screaming "NERF IT"

Surely most of us have had our favorite class get targeted by this, right? So then everyone should know that reasonable balancing is not really the game's MO. If I thought that OP's concerns would likely result in this:

"Welcome to update 5.2.1 on the PTS! Everyone grab a bottle of tequila and take a shot every time you see a nerf. New in the Crown Store are Ambulance Vouchers to get you to the ER when you get alcohol poisoning 30 seconds into reading. For a limited time only, get 30% off when you buy them in packs of 10!

• Set: Steadfast Hero. Warden's Netch no longer proccs this set"

Or SOMETHING to that effect, whatever, I'd be fine. But you know it'll end up like:

"Warden

• Guardian: this ability now damages YOU. Summon a Grizzly bear to maul you, dealing 50000 physical damage and inflicting major major fracture, since your bones are all broken now
• Cutting Dive: will now swoop in and peck your eyes out if you've recently been mauled by a grizzly, causing you to bleed for 829038120 damage
• Netch: this ability no longer does anything but follow you around and smack you. Additional functionality coming in Q2 of 2020!"

Preventing overbuff isnt a nerf.
Betty is viable now and will be even more viable when pts come live, you have nothing to worry about.
Cast when needed is even a buff. Because you will have control over it and use it when you want/need.
I rant against aoutocast because will tolerate keymashers and will allow your character to use skill /remove negative efects-grand dmg reduce/ even when is controled.
It shouldnt be that way.

NordSwordnBoard

I use steadfast on my stamcro with expunge & deaden pain. I get what OP is saying and agree.

I thought perpetual procs were frowned on, like skoria proccing sloads proccing skoria etc. DOTs may be fire and forget to a degree, but they don't re-apply themselves automatically - you have to push a button.

Please understand that passively proccing major protection -
1 While on your back (cc'd) unable to actively defend yourself
2 Not using a GCD (interrupting your offensive burst/combo)
- Are advantages that will possibly go viral and result in what? A nerf to only the set? Sure about that? Think, Wardens! Is it only your class with this advantage? Stop ZOS before the whole class gets conflated with all the future qq and this turns into a rune cage debacle for you. Is "Free Auto Purge" what you want to be renowned for in PvP? The F.A.P. class lol? It sounds like a pigeon hole as well.

In PvE I agree it could be nice, but I can't see that it's needed. It's certainly not the solution to the class issues. Not having to recast betty for sustain could improve dps numbers but it's not the only way to achieve that. There has to be better ideas.

IMO It will eventually leave the Wardens worse off than current. The PvPers who can sense the qq coming are actually trying to help, stop with all the tribalism. Again, don't let ZOS make this your rune cage. You will regret an overbuff because the end result is a diminished skill.

Canned_Apples

Betty does proc steadfast and this combination has already been available for ages but no one has ever complained about it.

Steadfast has always been and will always be a backbar set. Seems like a waste otherwise.

MentalxHammer

I mean there are 2x five piece set combinations that give you way more survivability than you could ever imagine with this. And let's be real you're sacrificing 10 gear slots just for 70% uptime in major protection, that's not an issue imo. You can use BRP dual wield and invest 2 gear slots for 100% uptime lol.

Runkorko

Canned_Apples wrote: »

Betty does proc steadfast and this combination has already been available for ages but no one has ever complained about it.

Steadfast has always been and will always be a backbar set. Seems like a waste otherwise.

So far betty was hard cast skill, not auoto. If you didnt noticed i speak about PTS not live...

Canned_Apples

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

Canned_Apples wrote: »

Betty does proc steadfast and this combination has already been available for ages but no one has ever complained about it.

Steadfast has always been and will always be a backbar set. Seems like a waste otherwise.

So far betty was hard cast skill, not auoto. If you didnt noticed i speak about PTS not live...

I know. But why would anyone want it to proc randomly? This set is best used when you are being pressured, otherwise it's a waste of a two piece and you won't be able to use it when you need it because it might be on CD.

that set would be like using BSW on both bars.........................

Calboy

Do you guys realise how many negative effects even one player places on someone? Removing only one every 5 seconds is rubbish and it will soon be placed back on

itscompton

Awesome, expect them to now make Steadfast hero useless for all classes to fix this.

BrokenGameMechanics

Effectively we have had this now for awhile. The Magica Netty purges neg 1 effect upon activation. Yes it is not auto like it will be. But it really simple now as it is just a single 0 cost gcd activation every 10 secs. i.e. You can get pretty close to doing this now. It is not some secret either. Been out there since the set came out.

Runkorko

BrokenGameMechanics wrote: »

Effectively we have had this now for awhile. The Magica Netty purges neg 1 effect upon activation. Yes it is not auto like it will be. But it really simple now as it is just a single 0 cost gcd activation every 10 secs. i.e. You can get pretty close to doing this now. It is not some secret either. Been out there since the set came out.

Stil get countered by higher overal dps.
Now it will make healers /and not only/ close to immortal.

WildRaptorX

They’ve said they’re getting to the other classes next patch. Chill.

Gahmerdohn

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

June 2017: Warden class released.

December 2017: Warden class is bland, weak, lackluster, and adds little to no group functionality. Few comment or even care that the class is underperforming.

June 2018: Warden class is bland, weak, lackluster, and adds little to no group functionality. Few comment or even care that the class is underperforming.

December 2018: Warden class is bland, weak, lackluster, and adds little to no group functionality. Few comment or even care that the class is underperforming.

June 2019: Warden class is bland, weak, lackluster, and adds little to no group functionality. Few comment or even care that the class is underperforming.

September 2019: "WARDEN CLASS GIVEN POTENTIAL BUFF THAT MAY MAKE ME DIE IN PVP... WARDEN CLASS PROBLEMATIC!!! NERF WARDEN!!!!"

How about instead of noting the fact that Warden has all of these buffs (we've had most of them before this patch and no one said a thing or cares, so I'm not sure why people are acting like this is surprising new information... the fact that you IDND'T KNOW should speak volumes about previous class performance) and crying for nerfs you all ASK FOR YOUR OWN CLASS TO BE BUFFED.

I play mostly PvE and main a MAGDEN. The class has been "LOL"ed at in the past and people have called it "meme status" because it had a reputation for being so terrible. So it's really, REALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLY annoying that ZOS is finally starting to pay some attention to the class and people are instantaneously whining about stuff. How about instead of taking the time to find reasons to nerf Wardens, you use that time to figure out ways that ZOS could buff your own class? Stop ruining things for other classes.

I feel you, mate. I really do

Years of just being a joke in PVE (sometimes tolerated because of ok damage during 2 months here and there) to the point that some content creators doing builds were saying "I'll not do warden cause it's the least popular classes and it's not worth my time" when people asked them to make builds for it.

We were waiting for a patch and the only patches that had warden modifications were: "now you can dodge dive" and " +1% on Advanced Species" or "-1% on Advanced Species".

Warden class also to be able to fulfill the range stamina DD (hunter type) and the frost mage but it never succeded to really do that...

SO plz just leave us alone!

TheGreatBlackBear

All you idiots are going to accomplish is to give Betty netch a magic/stam cost. Wait and see.

Derra

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

Glory wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Wow, I had misread the Patch Notes. I thought it was just a 5 second cooldown for the purge. But a passive removal every 5 seconds during the duration is crazy. You could run Steadfast with Jourvalds on a Magden for increased uptime on Major Protection as well. And Jourvalds does a lot with a warden toolkit.

You have to give up a 5 piece bonus for Jorvulds, plus the 5 pc for Steadfast Hero. There's a reason it's not meta. You could just wear Wizards Riposte and Buffer of the Swift and have around the same amount of mitigation nearly all the time. Either way, you aren't doing much damage.

With this setup you can easily go med/ or light armor.
Burst is not that hight anymore after all the nerfs so it shouldnt be a problem.
I`m sure with the right talent/race/jewels setup it can be run on live too.
And we dont speak only about dps here.
We already have nearly immortal healers/ with DoTs so stronK and dizzy stun spam.
Can you imagine the life lords whent PTS changes come live ?
No long before we see the circus unleashed

Glory wrote: »

This combination is already on live, and can be done with Templar, Warden, and Necromancer easily.

It's also why the set is banned in many dueling tournaments.

Set is very strong and probably could be looked into (along with many other strong sets), but I don't see it being much different from live? Unless you're concerned about the "passive" nature of the netch cleanse, but I really don't think that will modify the uptime you see from this set.

The diference is small and in the same time HUGE.
You cant cleanse on live when controled / stun-fear-silence/ or when under gcd
On PTS betty do it free for you every 5 sec. No matter do you have control over your character.
This make set proc uptime 100% without you even need to move a finger

It seems more like your issue is with a strong set than a skill.

Without considering this set, the Netch cleanse mechanic is decent but honestly not that strong (Siphoner and all the myriad of debuffs make this cleanse reasonable imo)

I don't disagree that the combination is strong, but I think the conversation should be more directed at how strong this set is.

Its ok now/ in live, i agree.
It can be ok in PTS too, IF betty cleanse effects only when manualy use/ as it is on live.
Passive cleanse guarantee auto dispell every 5 seconds, even if you fall asleep on your keyboard.
Such srong skill shoulnd be able to aouto cast.
So make Netch dispell stay the same but remove Auoto part from it.
Its fair imo.

Just put it on a timer that doesnt line up with steadfast?

BahometZ

Well this thread is certainly a rollercoaster. OP has "discovered" something that people were already doing, presents it as OP, graciously suggests it needs to be balanced because he too has a warden, but then proceeds to jump on anyone who disagrees with mangled English and insulting language. I wonder how often he uses his warden, and where his heart truly lies...

I agree that a slight change might arguably be made, though it isn't necessary, but I'm not a fan of the way OP has conducted himself in this thread.

Honestly, the sacrifice of needing 2 sets seems fair, seeing as neither is a damage set.

Maybe you could extend Steadfast cooldown, or decrease uptime by a couple of seconds, but then people probably wouldn't bother with it anymore, and again another trash set would bloom from the garbage pile.

Lokey0024

Steadfast is already being used to make borderline unkillable builds. Templar purges right before the charge and has major/minor and possible Cyrodiil light for some unreal dmg reduction. Or worse are healbots using vamp and this set and just "kiting" (running and tree humping] until 3 can Ult dump AoEs. The cooldown is to small for such a powerful buff imo.

mague

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

I allow myself to add this clip here so all can see how it looks.
7 seconds 30% dmg reduce buff/ with 10 seconds cd/ so literaly 3 sec cd/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOMtboJSwgg&feature=youtu.be

An Alit ? On live a Khajiit with Beekepers can stand against two Alit forever and without any cost. Use the divine trait and put steed mundus on it. Combine it with thunderbug and 4 Alit even die while trying.

And, your combo only works if the Alit puts a negative effect on you. Without effect no armor proc.

A Magplar with Bright-Throat's Boast and three reduction glyphs on the jewels is able to heal and cure against 5 Alit and kill them with one skill and basically free of cost.

These are the classes i play and know. I am sure other are able to do some stunts too.

Yiko

chrightt wrote: »

Precisely this. Warden’s new skill is based off a 5s interval, meaning passive full up time for steadfast hero once per two purges.

Steadfast hero isn’t OP because it is hard to manually make sure you get the full value. Even proccing it once per 12s average, which is far more realistic, diminishes the value of the set by quite a lot. Especially with the nerf for fortified brass, steadfast hero is definitely BiS for wardens if they want a defensive option.

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

I use steadfast on my stamcro with expunge & deaden pain. I get what OP is saying and agree.

I thought perpetual procs were frowned on, like skoria proccing sloads proccing skoria etc. DOTs may be fire and forget to a degree, but they don't re-apply themselves automatically - you have to push a button.

Please understand that passively proccing major protection -
1 While on your back (cc'd) unable to actively defend yourself
2 Not using a GCD (interrupting your offensive burst/combo)
- Are advantages that will possibly go viral and result in what? A nerf to only the set? Sure about that? Think, Wardens! Is it only your class with this advantage? Stop ZOS before the whole class gets conflated with all the future qq and this turns into a rune cage debacle for you. Is "Free Auto Purge" what you want to be renowned for in PvP? The F.A.P. class lol? It sounds like a pigeon hole as well.

In PvE I agree it could be nice, but I can't see that it's needed. It's certainly not the solution to the class issues. Not having to recast betty for sustain could improve dps numbers but it's not the only way to achieve that. There has to be better ideas.

IMO It will eventually leave the Wardens worse off than current. The PvPers who can sense the qq coming are actually trying to help, stop with all the tribalism. Again, don't let ZOS make this your rune cage. You will regret an overbuff because the end result is a diminished skill.

Definitely agree. People are super downplaying how good a passive purge can be. Did everyone forget about the first iteration of the Curse Eater rework? Do we have to record more gifs of CC being auto-removed? If I consciously and strategically decide to place a debuff on a target, it's not healthy gameplay for that debuff to be passively removed. There's play and then there's counterplay. Counterplay shouldn't play itself. Super simple stuff.

On top of passive purge being a bad idea on its own, the free passive purge results in a passive 30% Major Protection buff from Steadfast Hero, where other classes have to use a GCD (very important) and more resources (4.8k+ mag or 2k health for necro) to activate it. Even without the Jorvuld set (which I don't even think is particularly good in this combo), 50% uptime on Major Protection is definitely strong, and the user can play around this buff's uptime. Being activated by a free passive purge gives it too much value.

Everything about free passive purge screams bad design.

Olupajmibanan

Dots are weak to be used. No things to dispel = no Steadfast proc.

If you really think that the combination is overpowered, ask for Steadfast change and not Netch. We don't want to have PvP changes affect PvE.

InvictusApollo

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

InvictusApollo wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

It mus be adresed, atleast If we want balanced game
Yes i do have warden, yes i can just keep silence and just use broken armor/skill combo when patch hits live.
And no, i dont like it.(the combo)
On pts atm warden is on better spot (imo) than most classes, and last thing i wana see every 5 second is to have nearly OP class with 30% FREE dmg reduction.
Netch cost nothing to cast/ and literaly auoto dispel one negative efect every 5 sec in pvp- free set proc with no efforts every 10 sec for 5 sec duration)
Opinions?

Think about this way: you can't choose when to get that Major Protection. Before you could use netch to activate Major Protection whenever you were getting a lot of damage. Now you can't. If you get lucky, you will have it when your enemy decides to rain deeath upon you. And if you get unlucky you won't have it then. This is actually a huge drawback for skilled players.
The only pro of this combo is that you save one GCD.

Agree, but still give you 100% uptime with no effords from your side.

No it doesn't. You still get 50% uptime on Major Protection that you can achieve on any other class as long as you include some purge in your rotation, the same way sorcs include Hardened Ward.

zaria wrote: »

This would be an very nice tool who would be very nice then people ask for gear.

Everyone should have a limit of one call for nerf. The moment they make the second one, they should be banned for at least a month.

Runkorko

InvictusApollo wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

InvictusApollo wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

It mus be adresed, atleast If we want balanced game
Yes i do have warden, yes i can just keep silence and just use broken armor/skill combo when patch hits live.
And no, i dont like it.(the combo)
On pts atm warden is on better spot (imo) than most classes, and last thing i wana see every 5 second is to have nearly OP class with 30% FREE dmg reduction.
Netch cost nothing to cast/ and literaly auoto dispel one negative efect every 5 sec in pvp- free set proc with no efforts every 10 sec for 5 sec duration)
Opinions?

Think about this way: you can't choose when to get that Major Protection. Before you could use netch to activate Major Protection whenever you were getting a lot of damage. Now you can't. If you get lucky, you will have it when your enemy decides to rain deeath upon you. And if you get unlucky you won't have it then. This is actually a huge drawback for skilled players.
The only pro of this combo is that you save one GCD.

Agree, but still give you 100% uptime with no effords from your side.

No it doesn't. You still get 50% uptime on Major Protection that you can achieve on any other class as long as you include some purge in your rotation, the same way sorcs include Hardened Ward.

zaria wrote: »

This would be an very nice tool who would be very nice then people ask for gear.

Everyone should have a limit of one call for nerf. The moment they make the second one, they should be banned for at least a month.

Any other class?
I wana see you spaming purge, the way sorc spam ward
You know purge cost right ? And you know mostly/ if not only healers keep this on their bars righ?
Or there is a some special super duper purge, dps build
And is up 7 seconds every 10 seconds, how this make it 50% uptime?

[Edit to remove flaming]

Epicasballs

DK here. I've dueled templars wearing this set. Templars with their purge are obviously a bad match up for DK BUT the cost of DOTs were cheaper to reapply than it was for the templar to purge them. Plus the damage they dealt meant they couldn't be ignored... they would have to cleanse or out heal them. That trade off always come out ahead for DK in terms of resource efficiency. The fight would be massively drawn out but if you played well enough you could tax a templar into submission.

This is free. DOTs have been nerfed into ground both cost and damage wise. Now this warden isn't killing anyone. But I doubt anyone is killing them either.

The trade off between sustained pressure being more resource efficient than purge is gone. What's a DK to do here next update?

Firstmep

Whats Op abut this? There are better ways to be tanky in pvp, and using these sets will ensure you do no damage.
Steadfast and jorvuuld combo has been in the game for a while, not worth running even on pvp healers.

jadarock

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Dots are weak to be used. No things to dispel = no Steadfast proc.

If you really think that the combination is overpowered, ask for Steadfast change and not Netch. We don't want to have PvP changes affect PvE.

So we should ruin sets that are already in game
Because of changes made to wardens on pts really??....smh

Mojomonkeyman

The very big advantage of live netch (and the combination with hero) is exactly the one thing that it is going to lose - the control about when you want the cleanse and protection proc to happen. Same thing for hero - it was an awesome set for warden because you could i.e. - time hero proc - charge into battle - activate perma after 5 seconds - and immediately pull a second hero proc the moment perma runs out to get out of the heat - leading to 18s of major prot with no downtime inbetween.

Those combos wont line up anymore. This is a nerf. Losing the ability to control or rotate cleanse (with small heal attached) and therefore also control the hero proc to happen exactly when u need it is a total knockout. The big asset of netch was that it allowed to warden to perform very cost efficient defensive rotations (netch - trellis - netch - embrace - netch - etc.) which would still be incredibly powerful since those def rotas use to happen when under pressure and in major mending range.

Bad wardens spammed heals, good wardens rotated them with netch.

Dont get me even started on jorvulds - hero combo. Try it now, pretty sure you will (as any good player I know) very quickly realise that 2 more seconds of major prot are not worth the investment when taking trade-offs into account. Why bother with 2 more sec of major prot when you could instead stack major prot + major evasion or major prot + massive resistances. Jorvuld is just too much of a "loss" compared to other 5 piece sets, even on warden with its buffs due to how their dependencies and short timers interact with each other.

This thread is the perfect example of uninformed and, quite honestly, inexperienced players creating hyperbole based on half knowledge (if at all) misleading not only equally uninformed forum users but also developers - ultimately fueling the mismanaged & unhealthy balance rollercoaster we are experiencing for 2-3 years now.

Runkorko

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

The very big advantage of live netch (and the combination with hero) is exactly the one thing that it is going to lose - the control about when you want the cleanse and protection proc to happen. Same thing for hero - it was an awesome set for warden because you could i.e. - time hero proc - charge into battle - activate perma after 5 seconds - and immediately pull a second hero proc the moment perma runs out to get out of the heat - leading to 18s of major prot with no downtime inbetween.

Those combos wont line up anymore. This is a nerf. Losing the ability to control or rotate cleanse (with small heal attached) and therefore also control the hero proc to happen exactly when u need it is a total knockout. The big asset of netch was that it allowed to warden to perform very cost efficient defensive rotations (netch - trellis - netch - embrace - netch - etc.) which would still be incredibly powerful since those def rotas use to happen when under pressure and in major mending range.

Bad wardens spammed heals, good wardens rotated them with netch.

Dont get me even started on jorvulds - hero combo. Try it now, pretty sure you will (as any good player I know) very quickly realise that 2 more seconds of major prot are not worth the investment when taking trade-offs into account. Why bother with 2 more sec of major prot when you could instead stack major prot + major evasion or major prot + massive resistances. Jorvuld is just too much of a "loss" compared to other 5 piece sets, even on warden with its buffs due to how their dependencies and short timers interact with each other.

This thread is the perfect example of uninformed and, quite honestly, inexperienced players creating hyperbole based on half knowledge (if at all) misleading not only equally uninformed forum users but also developers - ultimately fueling the mismanaged & unhealthy balance rollercoaster we are experiencing for 2-3 years now.

having 30% dmg reduction 70% of the time is a nerf?
geting dispeled when you dont even have control on your character is a nerf?
right...
its literaly Pirate Skeleton set on steroids/ withoud his downsides.
And we have PS nerfed to the ground.
So pls cut the crap how big nerf PTS Betty is ...
You may allso want a warden buffs, because of all nerffs ge get ?