What’s with all the IC hate?

iamkeebler

I’m laughing a lot during this event over every forum post complaining about imperial City. All the “fixes” for imperial City people keep begging for (remove telvar? Make a PvE zone? Really folks? 😂😂). So I wanted to reach out to the eso community to help explain why Imperial City is awesome the way it is. So sound off below! What do you enjoy most about Imperial City? What made you love this zone? What keeps you coming back? Let’s hear it sewer rats!

For me, I personally love the different style of PvP gameplay that IC requires compared to the game play of Cyrodiil. I love that you can go in solo and sneak about, I love that you can zerg up and sweep the sewers clean. I also really enjoy the feeling when you flush the center out of the opposing factions, reclaim it for your own, and hold it down for hours on end.

Aurie

Don't forget there are two sides to this. There are the PvP'ers, and there are the PvE'ers.

Those who are either one or the other will probably never see eye to eye. Only the players who both PvP and PvE are likely to.

idk

The best one I have seen was asking for a reduction of how much Telvar you lost based on how much you had on you. Essentially the more you had the less you lost. Considering the multiplier for how much you get depends on how much you have they wanted their cake and be able to eat it to.

For the most part these people either do not normally PvP or at least in IC or they do not like the competition during the event. A lot of people had been used to IC being mostly deserted, hence mostly a PvE zone. They do not like the reality check.

iamkeebler

Aurelle1 wrote: »

Don't forget there are two sides to this. There are the PvP'ers, and there are the PvE'ers.

Those who are either one or the other will probably never see eye to eye. Only the players who both PvP and PvE are likely to.

Oh I agree! I used to be one of the PvE people, frustrated to all hell with this zone. But I think that’s what grew the appeal for me once I understood that this zone is meant to played differently thank PvE and accepting that you’re gonna die, a lot, until you “git gud”

VaranisArano

Its the same bait we see every year on both sides.

Everyone who likes Imperial City is thrilled and goes hog wild like a kid in a candy store.

Everyone who hates Imperial City, but for some reason queues up anyway, is shocked, just shocked to find gambling in this establishment when PVP happens to them in a PvPvE zone.

Truly, there is nothing new under the sun.

Red_Feather

There are certain things that could change. At least for the main story line quests. I saw 20+ zerg holding the arena district at one point. You simply can't do the main story at all. I got it done, but it felt cheap.

Eirinin

Pver new to zone: *overwhelmed with pvper culture* *makes suggestions, good and bad alike*
Pvper: you're just weak/bad/terrible/good for nothing but being farmed/we drink your tears!
Pvers all quietly watching this from the sidelines: Jesus, no thanks
Pvpers: why won't you just give pvp a try? It's great!

And so it goes, tighter and tighter, until no one is even speaking the same language anymore.

gepe87

But pve'rs can do IC dungeons to get the tickets...

zyk

In addition to all other factors, I think the fact that PVE is so forgiving plays a role. I think there are a lot of casual players who presume they're really good at ESO because they cruise through the PVE content. They might also think their unique builds are very clever.

I think it's legitimately shocking and embarrassing when they face real competition from other players who truly understand the game, build properly and are very skilled for the first time. I'm not just talking about overland players, but also PVE raiders with decent rotations because PVP is such a different game.

I felt that way in 2014 after I cruised to level 50 without learning most of the rules and hit pre-nerf VR content like it was a brick wall. I was so embarrassed I wrote angry feedback to ZOS before looking in the mirror and realizing I didn't actually know how to play ESO.

josh.lackey_ESO

It's a zone almost single-mindedly designed for nightblades to gank and bomb people. A "lambs to the slaughter" design. No risk vs reward. Go ganking/bombing with 0 Tal Var, kill some people, deposit in the bank, repeat. No other class can do it because it relies on being able to spam Cloak.

They should disable Cloak in IC. Then it would be interesting.

They should also limit the amount of Tel Var you can get from killing a player to the amount of Tel Var you are carrying.

magictucktuck

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

It's a zone almost single-mindedly designed for nightblades to gank and bomb people. A "lambs to the slaughter" design. No risk vs reward. Go ganking/bombing with 0 Tal Var, kill some people, deposit in the bank, repeat. No other class can do it because it relies on being able to spam Cloak.

They should disable Cloak in IC. Then it would be interesting.

They should also limit the amount of Tel Var you can get from killing a player to the amount of Tel Var you are carrying.

I literally only Solo in there and as a medium armor necro and always walk around with 10k or so stones. I eat nightblades..

That being said I always solo PVP in cyro and also and I carry invis potions and detect potions and immovable potions at all times.

But you're just wrong, it's a pvpers zone and because there is so much line of sight options people who regularly solo feel right at home and do even better because it's so easy to LOS and kill large numbers of less skilled players down there

Ankael07

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

It's a zone almost single-mindedly designed for nightblades to gank and bomb people. A "lambs to the slaughter" design. No risk vs reward. Go ganking/bombing with 0 Tal Var, kill some people, deposit in the bank, repeat. No other class can do it because it relies on being able to spam Cloak.

They should disable Cloak in IC. Then it would be interesting.

They should also limit the amount of Tel Var you can get from killing a player to the amount of Tel Var you are carrying.

The only time I see groups getting bombed is when they do nothing against bombers. Here are a few things (for groups) that can help with bombers.

1) Impen trait in all your gear

2) Cast the Barrier ulti from Alliance War skill line before you have to stack somewhere (looting a boss, chest or capturing a flag)

3) Sorcerers can put Defensive Rune on themselves so the enemy bomber gets stunned the moment he damages them

4) Necromancers can put a totem down so they'll have an AOE stun that pulses every 2 seconds

5) The speed of capturing a flag is the same no matter how many people you have on it. So you dont have to stay packed on the flag like a can of sardines

I'll edit this comment if I can come up with more ways to prevent bombers

Ilsabet

iamkeebler wrote: »

What do you enjoy most about Imperial City?

I like the questline and the characters you meet. I like that I can do PvE stuff there without having to PvP. I like being a nightblade so I can sneak past things and people I don't want to fight. I like carrying 0 tel var while I'm doing my daily so if I do get killed the person who did it doesn't get anything. I like the random gear boxes that were nice and gave me cheap Xivkyn polymorphs.

It's not someplace I'd want to call home, but it's a fun zone to visit every now and then.

Morgul667

I love that its different

That it s small scale

That it s risk and reward like in old mmos

vamp_emily

CP IC has been nothing but a zeg fest the last few hours. Lag.. Lag.. Lag.. It was nice when it was just small and medium sized groups fighting.

Mr_Walker

Meh, it's OK, I prefer objective based gameplay like Cyro. Too much "tower running" in IC for my taste. Not something I find appeal in playing or playing against.

Ankael07 wrote: »

show previous quotes

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

It's a zone almost single-mindedly designed for nightblades to gank and bomb people. A "lambs to the slaughter" design. No risk vs reward. Go ganking/bombing with 0 Tal Var, kill some people, deposit in the bank, repeat. No other class can do it because it relies on being able to spam Cloak.

They should disable Cloak in IC. Then it would be interesting.

They should also limit the amount of Tel Var you can get from killing a player to the amount of Tel Var you are carrying.

The only time I see groups getting bombed is when they do nothing against bombers. Here are a few things (for groups) that can help with bombers.

1) Impen trait in all your gear

2) Cast the Barrier ulti from Alliance War skill line before you have to stack somewhere (looting a boss, chest or capturing a flag)

3) Sorcerers can put Defensive Rune on themselves so the enemy bomber gets stunned the moment he damages them

4) Necromancers can put a totem down so they'll have an AOE stun that pulses every 2 seconds

5) The speed of capturing a flag is the same no matter how many people you have on it. So you dont have to stay packed on the flag like a can of sardines

I'll edit this comment if I can come up with more ways to prevent bombers

Keep your buffs up, and hold block when taking flags (at full stam).

Juhasow

iamkeebler wrote: »

I’m laughing a lot during this event over every forum post complaining about imperial City. All the “fixes” for imperial City people keep begging for (remove telvar? Make a PvE zone? Really folks? 😂😂). So I wanted to reach out to the eso community to help explain why Imperial City is awesome the way it is. So sound off below! What do you enjoy most about Imperial City? What made you love this zone? What keeps you coming back? Let’s hear it sewer rats!

For me, I personally love the different style of PvP gameplay that IC requires compared to the game play of Cyrodiil. I love that you can go in solo and sneak about, I love that you can zerg up and sweep the sewers clean. I also really enjoy the feeling when you flush the center out of the opposing factions, reclaim it for your own, and hold it down for hours on end.

Running and sneaking solo or sweeping everything in a zerg , taking the center objectives of the map from enemies and keeping it that way for few hours. Sounds so completly "different" then Cyrodill lol. /s

iamkeebler

Juhasow wrote: »

Running and seaking solo or sweeping everything in a zerg , taking the center objectives of the map from enemies and keeping it that way for few hours. Sounds so completly "different" then Cyrodill lol. /s

It really is a lot different than Cyrodiil though. I find my personal playstyle to be drastically different in IC than in Cyrodiil. Like in Cyrodiil I’m more concerned with taking/holding keeps and cutting the enemy off and coordinating with teams. I find the strategy used in Cyrodiil is a lot different too. Whereas in the sewers I sneak a lot more, gank a lot more, and play more for myself and make decisions based on what gets me more telvar. Maybe that’s just me though *shrugs*

Cadbury

Aurelle1 wrote: »

Don't forget there are two sides to this. There are the PvP'ers, and there are the PvE'ers.

Those who are either one or the other will probably never see eye to eye. Only the players who both PvP and PvE are likely to.

What? No, you can't do both! Pick a side. Conform /s

In all seriousness, I like travelling the sewers alone as a MagDK. There's danger around every corner and that really gets my heart pumping.

KingExecration

I love the thrill of taking down folks with physique on. That paired with the paranoia at every corner as you accumulate more and more keeping you on edge.

MasterSpatula

I mean, they fixed Cyrodiil's PVE's single biggest mistake by putting quest-givers and turn-in in safe areas.

I'm still not a fan of players having the ability to mess with other players' PVE. When IC is dead, the constant feeling of danger adds a bit of excitement to everything. You never know when you might get attacked. When it's hopping, then there's no point in doing any of the PVE, because it's no fun to have PVE experiences interrupted. At that point, you should just focus on PVP

I've had plenty of enjoyable PVE experience and enjoyable PVP experiences there, but I've never had a "another player keeps me from completing my objective" experience I would remotely describe as positive. And that definitely includes when one group comes across our group fighting one of the patrolling horrors, kills us, finishes off the horror, and leaves us with the boss on CD and us without credit. I don't consider it a particularly good design decision for that to be possible.

But I really wouldn't change anything. It is what it is, and it can be fun as long as I'm aware and don't bother doing any questing at all with enemy players around. OTOH, I'm fully aware that I'm never, ever finishing off the achievements for that place.

MajBludd

They are whining babies, mad because they can't get their way. So they take to the forums bitching and moaning and demanding things be changed to suit them. Their parents should be ashamed they raised such entitled babies.

zyk

MasterSpatula wrote: »

I've had plenty of enjoyable PVE experience and enjoyable PVP experiences there, but I've never had a "another player keeps me from completing my objective" experience I would remotely describe as positive. And that definitely includes when one group comes across our group fighting one of the patrolling horrors, kills us, finishes off the horror, and leaves us with the boss on CD and us without credit. I don't consider it a particularly good design decision for that to be possible.

Maybe it's just not your cup of tea?

I thoroughly enjoyed completing the quests in IC while having to watch my back constantly. That made it exciting for me. It was fun to fight other players while doing it. It was even fun having the situational awareness to spot the zergs and escape them. IC isn't only designed for ganking, it is also designed to facilitate escapes.

The difficulty of IC mobs has been nerfed once or twice. It used to be much more difficult to solo IC content of all types there. This was supposed to be group content for most players.

The open world PVP game I played over the summer features full loot, meaning that when you die you respawn naked and other players can take all of your gear and loot. When you log off, your character persists in the game world, asleep; other players can kill and/or loot them while you're logged off. You can build a base to sleep in, but other players can raid it even when you're offline, kill you and take all of your stuff. Most ESO players might hate a game like that, but it's way more popular than ESO PVP. I think it's awesome.

The point is, just because IC can be bad experience for you doesn't mean there's something wrong with it. It might be working perfectly for the kind of players it was designed for. The devs were practically giddy about the intended chaos of IC when it launched.

Fischblut

What do you enjoy most about Imperial City?

I don't go there often when it's not event, but I like the environment and talking daedra there. Coldharbor is my favorite zone and Hollow City is my home town, so it's not surprising

What keeps you coming back?

For PvE - good loot. For PvP - during the event I like to wander around and see what happens. When it's not event, I either meet nobody, or some people doing PvE quests (we don't fight), or groups of tel var farmers Not fun. During the event, there are much more interesting meetings

Yesterday was second day I've spent there, and some new interesting things happened:

1) When I (stamplar) port to our base (yellow) after death or with sigil, and somebody says that enemies are camping our base entrance in sewers, I unload my tel var and go check what's going on there and see if I can help to kill enemies.

One time there were two blue players - one was sorc whom I met the other day (we two fought for some time and eventually stopped cause it would lead to nowhere) and templar. Sorc didn't attack me, but templar did. My allies were also attacking them from our base platform, so I repositioned into the next room with hoarvor mobs - to keep the fight just between us two After nice long fight with closecalls from both sides he killed me.

2) When I jumped down from our spawn point in one of disticts, I idled for some time deciding where to go, and when I finally decided, enemy stamnb appeared with intention to gank me After another long fight in the narrow street, he stopped attacking me and did few teabags from the distance I returned the gesture, and saw how three mobs respawned just behind him. He aggroed them and cloaked away. Then I killed those mobs.

3) Other red nb tried to gank me. I killed him after rather short fight. He respawned and tried to gank me again... He failed second time. Did he want to practise? ...I think no, cause third time he finally swarmed me together with his many allies, which certainly didn't help him to learn how to gank

4) After 1 A.M at night, I still had some time to play, but the population dropped to 2-2-1 bars in IC. I was wandering the city, it felt empty as if no event was going on and I was wasting time In Arboretum, I found the harvester boss. I said in /yell chat that the boss is spawned (I'm guilty, I don't use /zone chat to call out bosses ), but no allies responded. I convoyed the boss for some minutes, there were no player activity in district. So I decided to start a fight and see what happens.

I had the boss in one spot in the open sight, but I didn't aggro any mobs around. I saw an ally fight Daedroth mob further away. I saw some reds popping out there too. I knew I could be ganked, but I kept fighting the boss (I had ony 900 tel var on me so it helped too )
And when she had rather low health left, I saw two high-rank reds approaching me, too close to comfort... It was a long fight and I used few potions (I didn't destroy her Feast fast so she healed to full two times, only third Feast was destroyed properly ), so I became sad that I will now probably die, and stopped fighting to see who will attack me first Unexpectedly, reds were not attacking me but only the boss. When the boss died, I got almost 5k tel var Reds looked at me, I looked at them. I came closer to loot the boss, and reds went away in different directions. It was very pleaseant, good loot and good people

5) Just after that, when I ported to base and got rid of my tel var, I returned to districts. Large group of blue farmers appeared, chased me down two times. When I died for second time, I saw lonely and tanky red stamwarden engaging them. I respawned, jumped down from my spawnpoint and saw the red running to me. I sent him flying with Draining Shot, but then I realised that he was not running to fight me, but running away from blue farmers. I sent two of them flying as well, so he had time to recover Luckily, the blue group divided, so in the end I had to fight only one magplar. It was a long fight, until the blue magsorc with two pets arrived...
I respawned again, looked around and saw red stamwarden fighting one of blues. I went away and found the same blue magplar on the other side of the building. The fight continues!
After long time and close calls again, I finally killed the blue templar, and I saw the red stamden approaching at the same time. He looked at me and at our fallen enemy. Then he started buffing up, I buffed as well just in case. When he started calling the shalks, there was no doubt... Another good fight, I couldn't believe it! After some minutes, I killed him. I wanted to make a /bow emote, but he respawned fast
Blue magplar was not respawning this whole time, watching the fight, so I approached him. I didn't feel like /bow cause he was eager to swarm me up with his group earlier, but I didn't feel disrespect as well cause he was strong enemy, so I casted my Rune buff and was simply standing in it. Only then he finally respawned.

I logged out with these positive memories.

Minyassa

What I most enjoy about Imperial City is that its dungeons are normal, instanced dungeons and one is not forced into PvP to do them. That salvages this event for PvEers.

Artemiisia

I think the "hate" towards imperil city event, is the tel var stones

People maybe grind them for hours, and to see that work/time effort gone i seconds by being destroyed by the pvp aspect of it, makes people feel they just wasted a bunch of time for nothing.

After I stopped carrying about tal var stones gain, im having a blast in there, lose some win some its all good.

I stack up 2-5 of these imperial retreat items you can buy at the vendor in the base, for 10k ap, in case I get lucky killing a pvp/pve player with lots of stones, or I have like 10k tal var stones on me from farming at one point.

so my tip of the day.

Buy those imperial retreat items, and use them when you feel like its time to put the tel var stones in the bank

dont push your luck

Cernunnos55

I think the population surge and campaign identity has really help IC, and I hope that it stays at least somewhat busy. It's a really fun experience, and should definitely be considered end-game content for PvEers in order for them to manage their expectations of survival. As people have said previously, it is definitely worth investing in retreat stones and banking your progress every time you get an okay amount of tel var.

If you're farming the sewers centre, there's no use crying about bombers or zergs or whatever. That "zerg" is just another faction's group wanting to try their luck. Those bombers are farming Tel Var in one of the fastest ways there is, and they're easily dealt with anyway.

anitajoneb17_ESO

iamkeebler wrote: »

I’m laughing a lot during this event over every forum post complaining about imperial City. All the “fixes” for imperial City people keep begging for (remove telvar? Make a PvE zone? Really folks? 😂😂). So I wanted to reach out to the eso community to help explain why Imperial City is awesome the way it is. So sound off below! What do you enjoy most about Imperial City? What made you love this zone? What keeps you coming back? Let’s hear it sewer rats!

For me, I personally love the different style of PvP gameplay that IC requires compared to the game play of Cyrodiil. I love that you can go in solo and sneak about, I love that you can zerg up and sweep the sewers clean. I also really enjoy the feeling when you flush the center out of the opposing factions, reclaim it for your own, and hold it down for hours on end.

I've always considered IC to be one of the best contents ever in ESO - and it still is.
And I'm by no mean a PvPer.
But having to be on your guard and always be watchful for the unexpected is what makes it extremely alive and fun to play - on the contrary to PvE zones who get extremely boring over time when you feel you know every single mob's routine by heart.
The Tel Var mechanic (risk/reward) also makes for guaranteed heartbeats that no other zone provides.

Obviously this isn't the best time for me to enjoy it (unless I join a zerg) but it still is an awful lot of fun.

kylewwefan

It was fun, but I have to admit I couldn’t get done what I came there to do. The bosses were dead, when they finally came back and I had a chance to get a few whacks on them, well then we get zergged down.

If you’re actually trying to do the quests there; well good luck dude. It gonna take awhile.

I popped someone for a good chunk of telvar while they was sneaking around. Kind of felt bad about it.

iamkeebler

Artemiisia wrote: »

After I stopped carrying about tal var stones gain, im having a blast in there, lose some win some its all good.

I think really is the trick for full enjoyment in this zone. Don’t stress about telvar and don’t stress about dying. Just expect that you’ll die and lose telvar. It’s part of the experience. Each death is a learning opportunity to get better at navigating that zone in my opinion.

Morgul667

iamkeebler wrote: »

show previous quotes

Artemiisia wrote: »

After I stopped carrying about tal var stones gain, im having a blast in there, lose some win some its all good.

I think really is the trick for full enjoyment in this zone. Don’t stress about telvar and don’t stress about dying. Just expect that you’ll die and lose telvar. It’s part of the experience. Each death is a learning opportunity to get better at navigating that zone in my opinion.

Yes

And always bank your telvars

Always get in IC with zero tel var on you... like this whatever you gain and lose... at the end of you run, it is pure gain as you went in there with zero tel vars